Other Don't use that, use this [XY OU Edition]

[WebBowser]

Ajwf There is certainly truth in that statement, so I took a relevant ou physical threat where physical investment might make a difference, mega pinsir.

252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 328-387 (46.5 - 54.9%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO

that's pretty scary already, and that's best case. Lets look at the alternative.

252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 8 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 328-387 (51 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

So in either case, chansey really cannot swap in on this guy, but in the former case, chansey can get a twave and maybe a wish off, so that's significant. It appears that fully investing in hp offers roughly the same amount of additional bulk on the physical side as investing in mixed defenses offer to the special side (~4-6% difference).

Meh, they both look like good options. HP investment also offers slightly better wish passes, but that is usually irrelevant unless your teammate is a wailord, wobbuffet, or Kyogre in ubers.

Yeah, I think now we're(I'm) largely just nitpicking at details, so whatever.

 

[raiderrocker18]

Are you seriously suggesting Chansey is needing more SpDef investment? Pack it all into Defense and HP, don't think twice. the calc on the previous page is ridiculous, considering you are showing the effect on a 0- Atk chansey. the scale isn't big enough to demonstrate the difference

 

[Ash Borer]

JMach has the right idea already: Stance Dance Aegislash is incredibly meh. However, the set he suggested in place of it plays significantly differently, in that it baits super effective hits rather than using its bulk to set up and switch to attack mode and wreck everything, which is what Stance Dance Aegislash is all about. What most people don't realize is that you don't necessarily have to switch back to Shield Forme once you do get going...

Instead, use this:

Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Sneak
- Iron Head
- Sacred Sword / Head Smash

Hmm? Where's the King Shield? How do you expect to sweep when you die to a light touch the moment you attack? Well you'll find out just how much Aegislash appreciates having a third attack, since it gives it a good deal more options. Shadow Ball Aegislash is powerful and all, but it can struggle to overwhelm certain walls, or at least has some difficulty continually busting through slower Pokemon. Swords Dance Aegislash can set right up and sweep the slower dudes, the extra attack being key here since it grants Aegislash a lot more power than unSTABed Sacred Sword. A good example would be SD Aegislash OHKOing AV Conkeldurr with Iron Head, who'd normally win in a 1v1 matchup with either Shadow Ball Aegi or Stance Dance Aegi (with good prediction), and isn't stopped by Unaware Clefable. Also, notice the amount of Speed this Aegislash has, which is enough to outrun base 80s such as Venusaur and Mandibuzz, allowing Aegislash to outrun a good majority of walls and smash them. Sacred Sword has good coverage with Aegislash's STABs, but Head Smash is Aegislash's strongest attack against a variety of threats, such as Mandibuzz, Zapdos, Skarmory, and Volcarona.

The trick to using this Aegislash is set up only when necessary; the Stance Dance variant pretty much has to set up which is what made it bad. Throw out a few unboosted attacks here and there & switch to reset Shield Forme if need be until it comes high time to Swords Dance and sweep, KOing fast opponents with +2 Shadow Sneak and bulldozing slower Pokemon with its more powerful options. SD Aegislash still has problems with bulky Grounds no matter what it runs though, so keep that in mind.

hi, yes, good post. SD aegislash needs to catch on, but in this flavour. To give you guys an idea on how strong this thing the life orb variant OHKOs skarm with head smash x_x

 

[shack]

Just throwing this wrench in the Espeon Deoxys debate. Espeon isn't really meant for sweeping, but it does have other uses that kind of make it like apples to oranges.
Switch in to a hazard or status, bounce it back
Yawn and force a switch
BP to scout their switch, if they don't switch bring in something that can set up with the free turn.

Espeon is for gaining momentum back. It can also run Stored Power + DG on a BP team and sweep everything (gimmicky)

 

[WebBowser]

Are you seriously suggesting Chansey is needing more SpDef investment? Pack it all into Defense and HP, don't think twice. the calc on the previous page is ridiculous, considering you are showing the effect on a 0- Atk chansey. the scale isn't big enough to demonstrate the difference

Yes, I am suggesting that no HP investment chansey is perfectly viable. I have shown additional calcs beyond the one that you have called "ridiculous" to show that chansey with SP defensive EVs does in fact do better in certain matchups, such as tanking lando-I a bit better.

Also, in case you did not notice, there was a .1% difference in the damage of the two calcs in the chansey V chansey calc, so the scale was in fact large enough to see the difference, if only barely.

However, if you insist on a more relevant calc that illustrates the exact same point, allow me to give you this.

252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 778-916 (110.5 - 130.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 0 HP / 16+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 712-838 (111 - 130.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Actually, this illustrates even better that 16 EVs in defense is worth more then 252 EVs in HP.

And for the special side, just to show that this is not simply bias

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 260-307 (36.9 - 43.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 100 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 237-281 (36.9 - 43.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

So it takes a bit more sp defense investment to reach parity with the health investment, due to lack of boosting nature and a non-garbage base spdefense stat, but it's still more efficient overall.

Anyway, as stated quite some time ago, the difference between full phys and mixed bulk is roughly 4-6% both ways, so it's a matter of preference really.

 

[JMach]

Yes, I am suggesting that no HP investment chansey is perfectly viable. I have shown additional calcs beyond the one that you have called "ridiculous" to show that chansey with SP defensive EVs does in fact do better in certain matchups, such as tanking lando-I a bit better.

Also, in case you did not notice, there was a .1% difference in the damage of the two calcs in the chansey V chansey calc, so the scale was in fact large enough to see the difference, if only barely.

However, if you insist on a more relevant calc that illustrates the exact same point, allow me to give you this.

252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 778-916 (110.5 - 130.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 0 HP / 16+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 712-838 (111 - 130.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Actually, this illustrates even better that 16 EVs in defense is worth more then 252 EVs in HP.

And for the special side, just to show that this is not simply bias

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 260-307 (36.9 - 43.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 100 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 237-281 (36.9 - 43.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

So it takes a bit more sp defense investment to reach parity with the health investment, due to lack of boosting nature and a non-garbage base spdefense stat, but it's still more efficient overall.

Anyway, as stated quite some time ago, the difference between full phys and mixed bulk is roughly 4-6% both ways, so it's a matter of preference really.

It negatively impacts wish-passing though. Your points are valid but I'm not sure degrees of inches of damage are really worth sacking HP investment.

 

[WebBowser]

It negatively impacts wish-passing though. Your points are valid but I'm not sure degrees of inches of damage are really worth sacking HP investment.

with 0 investment, chansey has 641 hp, meaning that it wish passes for a whopping 320 health. A fully invested base 100 has 404 hp. A fully invested chansey wishpasses for 352 health. If the impact is negative, it's not THAT negative.

4-6% is not really "degrees of inches" imo, but the point of all the random calcs that I've been posting/spamming is that it goes both ways by roughly an even amount.

 

[JMach]

with 0 investment, chansey has 641 hp, meaning that it wish passes for a whopping 320 health. A fully invested base 100 has 404 hp. A fully invested chansey wishpasses for 352 health. If the impact is negative, it's not THAT negative.

4-6% is not really "degrees of inches" imo, but the point of all the random calcs that I've been posting/spamming is that it goes both ways by roughly an even amount.

Of course - in my honest opinion, they're both small degrees.

More often than not, I want to wish pass to a bulkier pokemon that can endure a hit and strike back. 30-40 HP is a big difference for a bulky Pokemon. What if that poke is also invested or has something else bolstering its stats (e.g. Bulky AV attackers)? Every bit of HP counts!

 

[raiderrocker18]

i've just rarely been in a situation where i found Chansey's SpDef was lacking. i'd take every ounce of physical bulk i can get by the off chance i need chansey to take a hit, in addition to passing a wish pass to a high-hp mon such as bulky ttar

 

[skies]

I for one am for 4 HP/252 Def/252SpD.
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Sun: 160-190 (24.9 - 29.5%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Thundurus Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 130-154 (20.2 - 23.9%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
+6 252 SpA Manaphy Surf vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 250-295 (38.9 - 45.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 118-139 (18.3 - 21.6%) -- possible 5HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 208-247 (32.3 - 38.4%) -- 97.9% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Teravolt Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 72-85 (11.2 - 13.2%) -- possible 8HKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Sun: 202-238 (28.6 - 33.8%) -- 0.7% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Thundurus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 164-194 (23.2 - 27.5%) -- 75.2% chance to 4HKO
+6 252 SpA Manaphy Surf vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 313-369 (44.4 - 52.4%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 145-172 (20.5 - 24.4%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 260-307 (36.9 - 43.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Teravolt Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 90-106 (12.7 - 15%) -- possible 7HKO

These are the most powerful hits, and it takes them on, but I prefer to be cushioned more.

252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 204-240 (28.9 - 34%) -- 1.7% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 162-192 (25.2 - 29.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
And Psyshock 3HKOes either way.

 

[WebBowser]

Chesnaught I happen to like 8 hp EVs because screw SR. But yeah, I think we can all agree it's a matter of preference and teamcomp. If your team needs a better sp wall and doesn't mind the slightly lower wishpasses (unless you have multiple pokemon with well above 100 base hp, they prolly don't care), invest in mixed defense, otherwise, full phys away.

I think we have established that both are perfectly viable.

 

[Touymato]

Alright, even though Kyurem-B was covered on why MoxieMence is bad. I just feel like some sets should be addressed.

Don't Use That:

Kyurem-Black @ Choice Band
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Adamant/Naughty Nature
- Outrage
- Dragon Claw
- Fusion Bolt
- Stone Edge/Iron Head/Ice Beam

Why it's bad: Alright, let's be honest here. Facing Kyurem-Black with Choice Band is scary to take out. With a massive base special attack of 120, and it's sky rising base attack of 170, this thing can pretty much be a solid wall-breaker and can 2HKO most pokemon in the XY OU Metagame like in the 5th Generation. However, due to the fact of being locked into a move such as Outrage or Fusion Bolt, you can be check really easily by Mach Punch users such as Assault Vest Conkeldurr and Breloom. Not to mention, you can also be predicted as well, letting your opponent having the advantage of switching out to a respectable pokemon that are immune to Kyurem-B's Fusion Bolt such as Mamoswine, Gliscor, and Garchomp.

Instead, Use This:

Kyurem-Black @ Leftovers
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 52 HP / 4 Atk / 216 SpA / 236 Spe
Rash Nature
- Substitute
- Ice Beam
- Fusion Bolt
- Earth Power

Why it's better: Now as far as you lacking attack in the set that is presented, but this really benefits you in a way. For one obviously you're not locked into a move in were you can easily check or revenge killed by certain pokemon. The real reason on why this benefits you, because if you were trying to save this as your win condition, you can still get a late game sweep with this set. Also, you can like counter-predict your opponent by clicking Substitute in which IMO is good if one switches out to Specially Defensive Rotom-W, or Specially Defensive Heatran. You can retaliate back by OHKOing it with Earth Power being a Sub.

Conclusion:

Again yes, Banded Kyurem-B is a threat that most people should be aware of in the XY OU Metagame. But then again, you are asking yourself to be revenge-killed easily. It's your choice. I'm not forcing you on like to use the Rash set, I'm just speaking out on why Banded Kyurem-B has it's disadvantages seeing how the fairies are roaming around. I also believe that the Rash set can save you from taking a risk.

 

[MikeDawg]

Don't use this:

Espeon @ Light Clay
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Baton Pass / Yawn
- Psychic / Psyshock

Why it's bad: Espeon can be a useful Pokemon in the right situations, but its extremely lacking defensive stats and low appeal outside of Magic Bounce don't do it any favors. Its move options are extremely limited, as Espeon frequently doesn't have enough time or presence to effectively pull off Cleric or Wishpassing roles in addition to its Dual Screens duties. More often than not, Espeon ends up being a free switch to one of the many Pokemon that threaten it or that can set up on it, and overall its reliability and Speed is subpar for any team that depends on the presence of Dual Screens to execute a sweep.

Instead, use this:

Deoxys-S @ Light Clay
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock / Magic Coat

Why it's better: Deoxys-S brings with it an unmatchable Speed stat, respectable defenses (particularly under Dual Screens), and the ability to do just about everything Espeon does, only better. Taunt and Magic Coat can both emulate the effects of Magic Bounce, and Taunt has the added bonus of stopping any sort of setup whatsoever, whereas Espeon frequently finds itself at the mercy of boosting threats. Thanks to Deoxys-S's amazing 180 Speed stat, Deoxys-S easily sets up screens before it can be attacked, vastly reducing the amount of damage it takes. Lastly, Taunt and Stealth Rock allow it to be an extremely effective lead, and Deoxys-S can go a long way to make sure that the opponent never starts off the battle with the upper hand.

Conclusion:

Although Magic Bounce allows Espeon to absorb and reflect certain non-attacking moves, its sharply decreased utility and support presence make it a subpar choice for the vast majority of teams. On the other hand, Deoxys-S possesses the tools necessary to perform nearly all of Espeon's tasks and more. When it comes to setting up Dual Screens, Deoxys-S is almost always the better choice.



***NOTICE***

If you are looking to write one of these entries but don't know which Pokemon to write about, feel free to PM either Magnemite or myself (CyclicCompound) and we can set you up with one :)

Completely agreeing with mrglass here. Nobody uses espeon for her dual screens utility; they do it for magic bounce. It doesn't matter if deoxys has magic coat because rocks are going up on the switch and now deoxys is useless in terms of stopping them.

Insinuating that magic bounce has less merit than magic coat at least to the degree of espeon's inherent ability in comparison to deoxys is outright ridiculous.

And small note, but using deo-s comes with the opprotunity cost of not using deo-d. And imo that is a waste of deo-s to begin with without hazards.

Tl;dr: You are comparing apples and oranges. Subjectivity has no place in this thread.

 

[midend]

Alright, even though Kyurem-B was covered on why MoxieMence is bad. I just feel like some sets should be addressed.

Don't Use That:

Kyurem-Black @ Choice Band
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Adamant/Naughty Nature
- Outrage
- Dragon Claw
- Fusion Bolt
- Stone Edge/Iron Head/Ice Beam

Why it's bad: Alright, let's be honest here. Facing Kyurem-Black with Choice Band is scary to take out. With a massive base special attack of 120, and it's sky rising base attack of 170, this thing can pretty much be a solid wall-breaker and can 2HKO most pokemon in the XY OU Metagame like in the 5th Generation. However, due to the fact of being locked into a move such as Outrage or Fusion Bolt, you can be check really easily by Mach Punch users such as Assault Vest Conkeldurr and Breloom. Not to mention, you can also be predicted as well, letting your opponent having the advantage of switching out to a respectable pokemon that are immune to Kyurem-B's Fusion Bolt such as Mamoswine, Gliscor, and Garchomp.

Instead, Use This:

Kyurem-Black @ Leftovers
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 52 HP / 4 Atk / 216 SpA / 236 Spe
Rash Nature
- Substitute
- Ice Beam
- Fusion Bolt
- Earth Power

Why it's better: Now as far as you lacking attack in the set that is presented, but this really benefits you in a way. For one obviously you're not locked into a move in were you can easily check or revenge killed by certain pokemon. The real reason on why this benefits you, because if you were trying to save this as your win condition, you can still get a late game sweep with this set. Also, you can like counter-predict your opponent by clicking Substitute in which IMO is good if one switches out to Specially Defensive Rotom-W, or Specially Defensive Heatran. You can retaliate back by OHKOing it with Earth Power being a Sub.

Conclusion:

Again yes, Banded Kyurem-B is a threat that most people should be aware of in the XY OU Metagame. But then again, you are asking yourself to be revenge-killed easily. It's your choice. I'm not forcing you on like to use the Rash set, I'm just speaking out on why Banded Kyurem-B has it's disadvantages seeing how the fairies are roaming around. I also believe that the Rash set can save you from taking a risk.

Kyurem-band plays very differently; it is more of a suicide wallbreaker when u know your opponent can't afford to sac his pokes because he needs them to check your other pokes, so imo if kyurem has taken out a potential switch in to one of your teammates then i would say that getting rked is quite worth it indeed

 

[Rotosect]

CB Kyu-B is not its best set but it's far from bad.
If your team has issues with Chansey, Clefable and Sylveon, CB Kyu-B can lure and 2HKO all three of them with the appropriate move.
Considering these three are pretty much the only safe switch-ins against its popular Substitute set, the CB set definitely has its place.

 

[Eievui-Nymphia]

About the earlier Espeon vs Deoxys formes.

Not only Deoxys-D, Deoxys-S and Espeon are not able to compare, but Espeon is a COUNTER of Deoxys-D and is an ALMOST A COUNTER of Deoxys-S.

In fact, Espeon is more useful on the higher ladder to face the Deoxys formes and in the lower ladder. Because:
(Mega) Garchomp. Espeon can't eat a EQ or an OHKO. I have to remember if Scarf EQ OHKO. Psychic is not OHKOIng Garchomp anytime soon.
-Heatran. Try that.
-Landorus. Landorus has ore chances of winning.
-Landorus-T: Earthquake means goodbye.
(Megta) Tyranitar: COUNTER
-Excadrill. Same than Landorus-T.
-Mamoswine. Earthquake.
-Terrakion. A check... unless it's scarfed. If not, you have 80% of seeing goodbye.

 

[Taehl]

About the earlier Espeon vs Deoxys formes.

Not only Deoxys-D, Deoxys-S and Espeon are not able to compare, but Espeon is a COUNTER of Deoxys-D and is an ALMOST A COUNTER of Deoxys-S.

In fact, Espeon is more useful on the higher ladder to face the Deoxys formes and in the lower ladder. Because:
(Mega) Garchomp. Espeon can't eat a EQ or an OHKO. I have to remember if Scarf EQ OHKO. Psychic is not OHKOIng Garchomp anytime soon.
-Heatran. Try that.
-Landorus. Landorus has ore chances of winning.
-Landorus-T: Earthquake means goodbye.
(Megta) Tyranitar: COUNTER
-Excadrill. Same than Landorus-T.
-Mamoswine. Earthquake.
-Terrakion. A check... unless it's scarfed. If not, you have 80% of seeing goodbye.

This is kinda unreadable. Please edit your post with better English. :]

 

[mrglass]

Alright, I've talked about this before, but I'm about to address a trend that really pisses me off. In the February usage stats Air Slash was the 3rd most common move on Charizard, with over 30% using it. So I figured I'd clear this up.
Don't Use That:

Charizard@Charizardite Y
Ability: Drought
EVs: 4 Def/ 252 Sp. Atk/ 252 Spd
Timid/Naive Nature
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Air Slash
- Roost/Focus Blast/Dragon Pulse/Earthquake

Why it's bad: Flying type coverage is incredibly redundant with Fire type coverage. Yes, aside from Rock types, it gets decent neutral coverage, but with Drought, Charizard Y doesn't give a rat's ass about Neutral coverage. In fact, Fire Blast is a stronger option than Air Slash for the opponent isn't 4X weaker to Flying. So the only pokemon that Air Slash hits harder than Fire Blast are Poliwrath, Keldeo, Kingdra, Palkia, Infernape, Blaziken, Thick Fat Hariyama, Thick Fat Azumarill, and Flash Fire users. Poliwrath, Palkia, Blaziken, Hariyama, and TF Azumarill will never be seen in OU. So you are taking a coverage move to cover Keldeo, Kingdra, Infernape, Chandelure, and Houndoom. On the other hand this set either leaves you with no recovery or renders you completely useless against all Dragon types, Tyranitar, and Heatran.

Instead, Use This:

Charizard@Charizardite Y
Ability: Drought
EVs: 4 Def/ 252 Sp. Atk/ 252 Spd.
Timid/Naive Nature
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Focus Blast/Dragon Pulse
- Roost/Earthquake

Why it's better: Charizard has a wide movepool and various coverage options to deal with those 5 threats. Keldeo is hit harder with SolarBeam, which should be on every Charizard Y set. Infernape is 2HKOed by Fire Blast anyway, so it won't want to switch in on you. If you are worried about Thunder Punch, you shouldn't be staying in Infernape whether you have Air Slash or not, because you are outsped. Kingdra is hit with Dragon Pulse, and Infernape/Houndoom/Chandelure are hit with EQ. So even if you are really worried about those 5 threats (among them only Keldeo is common), Dragon Pulse+EQ hits all of them and a bunch of other threats Fire Blast CAN'T deal with like Heatran, Tyranitar, and Garchomp.

Conclusion: While Air Slash does have a niche once your sun has run out, in most cases it isn't worth severely hampering your wallbreaking potential.

 

[alexwolf]

Magnemite here are some things that need fixing in the OP:

1. Slash Knock Off on the third slot of Mega Mawile, and remove Brick Break. +2 Knock Off does 98% minimum to max HP Heatran and fucks up any defensive Steel-type that you would want Brick Break for, while also having an excellent secondary effect. Also, make Fire Fang the last slash, as it's the most situational move on the third slot, Heatran is too common in stall, and getting walled by it sucks for a wallbreaker. It's good if you have troubles with Mega Scizor, Ferrothorn, or opposing Mega Mawile, but that's it.

2. Remove the mention of Air Baloon SpD Heatran being outclassed, as it isn't. With both max special bulk and Air Balloon, Heatran can handle both physical and special attackers, depending on what threatens its team more. For example, if the opponent doesn't have a Mega Pinsir that you need to check, you can use Heatran with Stone Edge as a decent check to Mega Charizard Y, while without any HP EVs, Heatran always gets OHKOed by Timid Focus Blast after SR. In general, the added bulk is nice for a lot of offensive teams, and using Air Balloon is a perfectly viable option if your teams lacks good checks to Mega Pinsir, Garchomp, Mega Charizard X etc.

3. In the Chansey vs Blissey comparison, mention Blissey's pros, namely ability to use special attacks, faring better against Volt-turn teams, and not minding the occasional Knock Off on special attackers as much as Chansey. Chansey is superior in most cases yeah, but Blissey is still a viable but more situational option, and you need to mention this, otherwise you are just misleading new players into thinking that Blissey is completely outclassed.

4. Finally, remove the DS Espeon to DS Deoxys-S comparison, the CB Kyurem-B to sub Kyu-B comparison, and the Wish Chansey to Wish Blissey comparison. DS Espeon is a perfectly viable option on HO teams that dislike SR and need it away from their side of the field at all costs, for example flying spam teams with Talonflame and Mega Pinsir, two extremely dangerous Pokemon. Also, you have the wrong moveset for DS Espeon, it should be using Yawn + Baton Pass, but this is another matter altogether. You don't need two comparison for Chansey and Blissey, you can cover both sets with one comparison, so do this. Finally, CB Kyurem-B is not outclassed by Sub Kyu-B, they play differently. Sub Kyu-B is the overall most effective set, but they have different jobs on a team, and just because the Sub set is more effective in this meta doesn't mean that the CB set is outclassed.

 

[z0mOG]

Don't use this:

Infernape @ Focus Sash
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SAtk
Hasty Nature
- Overheat
- Stealth Rock
- Fake Out
- Close Combat/U-Turn/Mach Punch


Instead, use this:

Infernape @ Choice Scarf/Choice Band
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Flare Blitz
- U-turn
- Gunk Shot/Rock Slide (Scarfed set)/Mach Punch (Banded set)

Infernape isn't a good sash lead. Infernape makes for a great stallbreaker with a choice band or a great utility choice scarfer. The only real threats to this pokemon is talonflame, Deoxys-s, and latios/latias(banded). Just run it with Tyranitar and you're set.

 

[Magnemite]

Magnemite here are some things that need fixing in the OP:

1. Slash Knock Off on the third slot of Mega Mawile, and remove Brick Break. +2 Knock Off does 98% minimum to max HP Heatran and fucks up any defensive Steel-type that you would want Brick Break for, while also having an excellent secondary effect. Also, make Fire Fang the last slash, as it's the most situational move on the third slot, Heatran is too common in stall, and getting walled by it sucks for a wallbreaker. It's good if you have troubles with Mega Scizor, Ferrothorn, or opposing Mega Mawile, but that's it.

2. Remove the mention of Air Baloon SpD Heatran being outclassed, as it isn't. With both max special bulk and Air Balloon, Heatran can handle both physical and special attackers, depending on what threatens its team more. For example, if the opponent doesn't have a Mega Pinsir that you need to check, you can use Heatran with Stone Edge as a decent check to Mega Charizard Y, while without any HP EVs, Heatran always gets OHKOed by Timid Focus Blast after SR. In general, the added bulk is nice for a lot of offensive teams, and using Air Balloon is a perfectly viable option if your teams lacks good checks to Mega Pinsir, Garchomp, Mega Charizard X etc.

3. In the Chansey vs Blissey comparison, mention Blissey's pros, namely ability to use special attacks, faring better against Volt-turn teams, and not minding the occasional Knock Off on special attackers as much as Chansey. Chansey is superior in most cases yeah, but Blissey is still a viable but more situational option, and you need to mention this, otherwise you are just misleading new players into thinking that Blissey is completely outclassed.

4. Finally, remove the DS Espeon to DS Deoxys-S comparison, the CB Kyurem-B to sub Kyu-B comparison, and the Wish Chansey to Wish Blissey comparison. DS Espeon is a perfectly viable option on HO teams that dislike SR and need it away from their side of the field at all costs, for example flying spam teams with Talonflame and Mega Pinsir, two extremely dangerous Pokemon. Also, you have the wrong moveset for DS Espeon, it should be using Yawn + Baton Pass, but this is another matter altogether. You don't need two comparison for Chansey and Blissey, you can cover both sets with one comparison, so do this. Finally, CB Kyurem-B is not outclassed by Sub Kyu-B, they play differently. Sub Kyu-B is the overall most effective set, but they have different jobs on a team, and just because the Sub set is more effective in this meta doesn't mean that the CB set is outclassed.

Sorry, I kinda forgot about this.

1. Okay
2. Okay
3. Sure, but I'll also mention that these advantages aren't really specific or numerous enough to warrant Blissey's use over Chansey since Chansey's advantages are huge and Blissey's advantages aren't really all that relevant.
4. Fine on the Kyurem-B one, but I'd like to keep the Blissey ones separate as they were written by two different users and they both deserve credit. I'm keeping the Espeon one because unless you purposefully go out of your way to use a bunch of SR weak mons, Deoxys-S is much better, and this thread is about things that are generally outclassed, but not entirely outclassed. Also, Deoxys-S has Taunt and threatens out most relevant SR setters since the offensive set is the most common. I'll mention Espeon's advantages though.

 

[MQJinx]

Medicham's moveset statistics are so messed up. I mean, Fake Out at 48%? Bullet Punch at 50%? Psycho Cut at 54%? Drain Punch at 55%? This needs to be fixed.

Don't use:

Medicham @ Medichamite
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Psycho Cut
- Fake Out
- Bullet Punch

Really it should be obvious why this set is so mediocre. Medicham lacks the bulk to effectively use Drain Punch, and is easily revenged by Talonflame and Aegislash, and Mega Scizor can 2HKO Medicham with unboosted Bullet Punch 72.7% of the time, which is very high. Psycho Cut is outclassed by Zen Headbutt for reasons which will be given later. By running Fake Out and Bullet Punch, you forgo useful coverage options like the elemental punches. This leaves you to get easily walled by most physical walls. For Medicham to succeed, it needs as much coverage as possible so it can fulfill its duty as a wallbreaker, not a "bulky" priority user which is outclassed by Conkeldurr.

Use this instead:

Medicham @ Medichamite
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Zen Headbutt
- Fire Punch / Ice Punch
- Substitute / Fake Out

Medicham needs every single bit of power and coverage in order to function as a wallbreaker. Who cares about sweeping when your Speed is 100? Substitute allows you to have Medicham break through checks while unscathed and can even clean teams late game. Ice Punch can plow through Zapdos, Gliscor, Landorus-T, and Garchomp, and even has a chance to OHKO Dragonite through Multiscale. Zen Headbutt is Psycho Cut except that it has more power, accuracy isn't that huge of a concern, and the flinch bonus can save you at times. Fire Punch can enable Medicham to act as an Aegislash/Scizor lure. High Jump Kick is absolutely needed to secure the 2HKO on Hippowdon, Suicune, Skarmory, and Quagsire, as well as securing the OHKO on Ferrothorn and Chansey.

 

[Talpr0ne]

While the trend isn't as worrisome as the completely fucked up moveset statistics of Medicham, there is still a fair amount of physical Greninja running around, specifically 4% of Greninja run a spread of 252 Atk/252 Spd/4 HP Jolly according to the most recent usage statistics. Moreover, this set is often brought up on discussions regarding the ninja frog that powers up its attacks with Mewtwo's tears, claiming that this kind of spread allows Greninja to beat most conventional checks to the special sets, which, as we're going to see, is not exactly true.

Don't use this, ever:

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spd/4 HP
Jolly/Adamant Nature
-Waterfall
-Night Slash
-Power-Up Punch/U-Turn
-Water Shuriken/Shadow Sneak/Rock Slide

Frankly, this set is laughably weak. While the difference beetween the physical attack and the special attack of Greninja is little, only 7 points, the base power of the physical moves is much weaker; the weakest move of special sets, Extrasensory/Dark Pulse, is as powerful as the most powerful move of physical sets, Waterfall.

Most people say that this set allows Greninja to beat most of its counters and checks, but

+1 252 Atk Life Orb Greninja Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 292-344 (74.1 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Power-Up Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 182-218 (25.8 - 30.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Greninja Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 273-321 (38.7 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 161-191 (44.2 - 52.4%) -- 20.7% chance to 2HKO
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Power-Up Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 27-34 (8.1 - 10.2%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Power-Up Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 133-156 (40.1 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 121-142 (36.4 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 177-211 (53.4 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

All of those calcs are at +1 (except Mega Gyarados due to Intimidate) against 4 very common checks/counters to Greninja. The only ones that he's getting past with Power-Up Punch under its belt are Sylveon and Mega Gyarados, the latter only if he's switching into Power-Up Punch after Mega. Moreover after the ruse is revealed, nothing stops the opponent from walling you with a physical wall not named Hippowdon.

Another claim of "fame" for physical frog is being able to revengekill Talonflame with a faster Water Shuriken, and Water Shuriken in general. However, it needs to strike at least 4 hits when unboosted in order to ko even CB Talonflame, assuming no prior damage, and after Bulk Up variants which have already a boost under their belt it fails even with 5 hits, making it unreliable at best. Priority in general is nice, but every other priority abuser has high attack, an high base power priority move or a damage multiplier ability such as Technician. Protean doesn't count as a damage multiplier ability as Greninja gets STAB from Water Shuriken even without it, essentially outclassing Greninja even if they're slower.

Instead use this

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 SAtk/252 Spd/4 HP
Timid/Modest/Naive Nature
-Hydro Pump
-Ice Beam
-Dark Pulse/Extrasensory
-Grass Knot/U-Turn/Extrasensory

This set is pretty good and standard and thus I don't need to spend many words about it. The only thing that must be said is that it is powerful, unlike the physical set, and it is actually able to deal with most checks and counters, such as Keldeo, Conkeldurr, Venusaur or Gyarados by running Grass Knot or Extrasensory, or simply GTFO with U-Turn

 

[WebBowser]

While the trend isn't as worrisome as the completely fucked up moveset statistics of Medicham, there is still a fair amount of physical Greninja running around, specifically 4% of Greninja run a spread of 252 Atk/252 Spd/4 HP Jolly according to the most recent usage statistics. Moreover, this set is often brought up on discussions regarding the ninja frog that powers up its attacks with Mewtwo's tears, claiming that this kind of spread allows Greninja to beat most conventional checks to the special sets, which, as we're going to see, is not exactly true.
Don't use this, ever:

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spd/4 HP
Jolly/Adamant Nature
-Waterfall
-Night Slash
-Power-Up Punch/U-Turn
-Water Shuriken/Shadow Sneak/Rock Slide

Frankly, this set is laughably weak. While the difference beetween the physical attack and the special attack of Greninja is little, only 7 points, the base power of the physical moves is much weaker; the weakest move of special sets, Extrasensory/Dark Pulse, is as powerful as the most powerful move of physical sets, Waterfall.

Most people say that this set allows Greninja to beat most of its counters and checks, but

+1 252 Atk Life Orb Greninja Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 292-344 (74.1 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Power-Up Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 182-218 (25.8 - 30.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Greninja Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 273-321 (38.7 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 161-191 (44.2 - 52.4%) -- 20.7% chance to 2HKO
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Power-Up Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 27-34 (8.1 - 10.2%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Power-Up Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 133-156 (40.1 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 121-142 (36.4 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 177-211 (53.4 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

All of those calcs are at +1 (except Mega Gyarados due to Intimidate) against 4 very common checks/counters to Greninja. The only ones that he's getting past with Power-Up Punch under its belt are Sylveon and Mega Gyarados, the latter only if he's switching into Power-Up Punch after Mega. Moreover after the ruse is revealed, nothing stops the opponent from walling you with a physical wall not named Hippowdon.

Another claim of "fame" for physical frog is being able to revengekill Talonflame with a faster Water Shuriken, and Water Shuriken in general. However, it needs to strike at least 4 hits when unboosted in order to ko even CB Talonflame, assuming no prior damage, and after Bulk Up variants which have already a boost under their belt it fails even with 5 hits, making it unreliable at best. Priority in general is nice, but every other priority abuser has high attack, an high base power priority move or a damage multiplier ability such as Technician. Protean doesn't count as a damage multiplier ability as Greninja gets STAB from Water Shuriken even without it, essentially outclassing Greninja even if they're slower.

Instead use this

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 SAtk/252 Spd/4 HP
Timid/Modest/Naive Nature
-Hydro Pump
-Ice Beam
-Dark Pulse/Extrasensory
-Grass Knot/U-Turn/Extrasensory

This set is pretty good and standard and thus I don't need to spend many words about it. The only thing that must be said is that it is powerful, unlike the physical set, and it is actually able to deal with most checks and counters, such as Keldeo, Conkeldurr, Venusaur or Gyarados by running Grass Knot or Extrasensory, or simply GTFO with U-Turn

"HP-whatever" deserves a slash for the fourth move. HP is a wonderful coverage move thanks to protean, giving it a passable base 90 BP. HP fire is his only ticket around ferrothorn and other steel types not weak to water or dark. HP grass can hit rotom-w much harder then grass knot. HP elec and HP fight can also net some situational but useful coverage. HP on greninja is a wonderful, wonderful move.

 

[Knuckstrike]

Dont use this:

@ Pinsirite
Ability: Mold Breaker / Hyper Cutter / Moxie
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 SAtk
- Earthquake
- Return
- Quick Attack
- Swords Dance

One of the biggest monsters that generation 6 has given us is pinsir. Its amazing so-called 'flying spam' wallbreaking capabilities make it a very dangerous threat this generation. Return, powered-up by both STAB and aerialate (and even a possible swords dance) gives pinsir the STAB move it needs. However, over 90% of the people taking this set off of one of the smogon analysis pages copy it literally and proceed to try and sweep teams with this gem of a set. However, there is hardly any reason to put return on Pinsir. I present to you the better move on this pokemon:

Use this:

@ Pinsirite
Ability: Mold Breaker / Hyper Cutter / Moxie
Happiness: 0
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 SAtk
- Earthquake
- Frustration
- Quick Attack
- Swords Dance

Yes, return is completely outclassed by frustration. Return is often mentioned and used on pokemon that need a normal-type STAB over frustration for three main reasons. One, it's the shorter name of the two, meaning it's less trouble typing it out. Secondly it's the more 'humane' move of the two: you'd rather have a happy pokemon than a sad pokemon. But pinsir isn't a pokemon that wants to be happy. It doesn't want your hugs. It wants to eat flesh.
Lastly, pokemon are automatically at a high happiness in-game after training them, meaning that return is the standard in-game. In a simulator however it's as easy as changing a number.

Anyway, the reason that return is completely outclassed by frustration is because of one reason and one reason only: ditto. Ditto run max happiness pretty much all the time because max happiness is standard on simulators, meaning that without thinking about it you automatically have max happiness. And even with some thought behind it max happiness is the better option because most other pokemon run max happiness as well.

By giving pinsir 0 happiness and frustration instead of return, ditto will be able to damage you hardly at all with their frustration. Without any stat raises or lowers quick attack will only do 61.7 - 72.7% meaning that, even after pinsir has switched into rocks before mega-evolving, it will win against any ditto.

tl;dr: If you want to win against ditto without any other disadvantages, run frustration over return.