I think it will be able to learn earth power from tutor
and it should be able to learn moonlight , too hahaha
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Xerneas
- Thread starter superstar
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and it should be able to learn moonlight , too hahaha
Earth power, maybe. Moonlight has never been a Move Tutor move (at least in my knowledge) and I don't see any reason why they would give it to Xerneas
So I've been trying to create a Xerneas that can lure its own counters whilst still facilitating a sort of Sweep (I really really dislike having to predict with Night Slash to beat up counters).
What ended up coming up was a lot of sets that functioned like Kyogre (but became unviable later on) in the last generation. Except, unlike Kyogre, Xerneas is more physically bulkier and has better STAB!
So after talking to some people on IRC and Pokemon Showdown, primarily Dracoyoshi8 , ogasian , and orch , I've found some Xerneas sets that can use its bulk to power through those wimpy Pokemon that try to counter it.
Xerneas @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Def
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Thunder / Reflect
- Rest
The extremely heavy defense investment allows you to actually tank those Bullet Punches and Gyro Balls your enemies were throwing at you. It doesn't protect you from Toxic, but the defense investment lets it very very easily get Calm Minds. Calm Mind > Geomancy on this set because to use the second ya gotta use Power Herb and then you can't suddenly refresh yourself from all the damage you acquired. The Speed boost also isn't nice since it actually lets enemy Gyro Balls hurt you now too. Moonblast is obligatory STAB and thanks to Xerneas's Fairy Aura its not the weakest thing ever even if it isn't invested in. Thunder nails Ho-oh, Lugia, and Steel-types for damage but Reflect lets you lol at enemy Steel-types using Gyro Ball and Bullet Punch even more and can make you extremely difficult to revenge kill. Rest basically not only screws with stuff trying to Toxic stall you out, but also instantly fully replenishes HP.
Focus Blast can be run over Thunder but really it doesn't help you at all when you fight Aegislash ;_;, it does help against them Heatran though. Speaking of Aegislash he has to play a game against you, since Blade Gyro Ball doesn't do too much you can flip the tables on it and threaten to Calm Mind as it King's Shields or Moonblast as it stays in blade form trying to hurt you.
For reference of how fragile Blade Aegislash is, +1 Moonblast will 2HKO very cleanly.
Xerneas can also run a mildly successful set using Resttalk
Xerneas @ Leftovers
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Def
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Sleep Talk
- Rest
So now those weak Pokemon that could try to counter Xerneas will find their 3HKOes turned into 4HKOes due to the presence of Leftovers and suddenly this thing can actually manage to stand up to beasts like Aegislash, and setup CMs infront of it, swatting it away with Moonblast whenever it feels like it. The issue is that its much bigger phazing bait, but since Perish Song Arceus no longer exist it can pull off a last mon sweep pretty well too! Oh and Life Orbed / Banded Ho-oh are RUDE, but you can still beat variants of Ho-oh running Leftovers.
For reference here are calculations showing what Xerneas can setup on now. Its so called "checks" are now setup:
16 Atk Aegislash-Blade Gyro Ball (52 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Xerneas: 120-144 (26.3 - 31.5%) -- 18.2% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Bronzong Gyro Ball (92 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Xerneas: 134-162 (29.3 - 35.5%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
52+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Xerneas: 156-186 (34.2 - 40.7%) -- 49% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
As a plus this Xerneas is also THE best check to Mega Mewtwo X that exists!
These sets have had success against people like Hack He Must and Donkey who can attest that although they may be somewhat situational, can be effective as well.
What ended up coming up was a lot of sets that functioned like Kyogre (but became unviable later on) in the last generation. Except, unlike Kyogre, Xerneas is more physically bulkier and has better STAB!
So after talking to some people on IRC and Pokemon Showdown, primarily Dracoyoshi8 , ogasian , and orch , I've found some Xerneas sets that can use its bulk to power through those wimpy Pokemon that try to counter it.
Xerneas @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Def
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Thunder / Reflect
- Rest
The extremely heavy defense investment allows you to actually tank those Bullet Punches and Gyro Balls your enemies were throwing at you. It doesn't protect you from Toxic, but the defense investment lets it very very easily get Calm Minds. Calm Mind > Geomancy on this set because to use the second ya gotta use Power Herb and then you can't suddenly refresh yourself from all the damage you acquired. The Speed boost also isn't nice since it actually lets enemy Gyro Balls hurt you now too. Moonblast is obligatory STAB and thanks to Xerneas's Fairy Aura its not the weakest thing ever even if it isn't invested in. Thunder nails Ho-oh, Lugia, and Steel-types for damage but Reflect lets you lol at enemy Steel-types using Gyro Ball and Bullet Punch even more and can make you extremely difficult to revenge kill. Rest basically not only screws with stuff trying to Toxic stall you out, but also instantly fully replenishes HP.
Focus Blast can be run over Thunder but really it doesn't help you at all when you fight Aegislash ;_;, it does help against them Heatran though. Speaking of Aegislash he has to play a game against you, since Blade Gyro Ball doesn't do too much you can flip the tables on it and threaten to Calm Mind as it King's Shields or Moonblast as it stays in blade form trying to hurt you.
For reference of how fragile Blade Aegislash is, +1 Moonblast will 2HKO very cleanly.
Xerneas can also run a mildly successful set using Resttalk
Xerneas @ Leftovers
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Def
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Sleep Talk
- Rest
So now those weak Pokemon that could try to counter Xerneas will find their 3HKOes turned into 4HKOes due to the presence of Leftovers and suddenly this thing can actually manage to stand up to beasts like Aegislash, and setup CMs infront of it, swatting it away with Moonblast whenever it feels like it. The issue is that its much bigger phazing bait, but since Perish Song Arceus no longer exist it can pull off a last mon sweep pretty well too! Oh and Life Orbed / Banded Ho-oh are RUDE, but you can still beat variants of Ho-oh running Leftovers.
For reference here are calculations showing what Xerneas can setup on now. Its so called "checks" are now setup:
16 Atk Aegislash-Blade Gyro Ball (52 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Xerneas: 120-144 (26.3 - 31.5%) -- 18.2% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Bronzong Gyro Ball (92 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Xerneas: 134-162 (29.3 - 35.5%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
52+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Xerneas: 156-186 (34.2 - 40.7%) -- 49% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
As a plus this Xerneas is also THE best check to Mega Mewtwo X that exists!
These sets have had success against people like Hack He Must and Donkey who can attest that although they may be somewhat situational, can be effective as well.
I think a mix set with just enough speed to outspeed scarf Palkia @ plus 2 or just a little speed creep to outrun uninvested base 90's is the way to go.
rock slide
close combat/geomancy
monblast
hidden power fire
Split ev's between att and sp att and have moonblast to take advantage of stab and fairy aura. Hp fire for Ferro/Scizor/Forry/Aegislash and rock slide shits on ho-oh. CC for Arceus.
Rock sldie is a must anyway, coz it's a free kill on ho-oh
rock slide
close combat/geomancy
monblast
hidden power fire
Split ev's between att and sp att and have moonblast to take advantage of stab and fairy aura. Hp fire for Ferro/Scizor/Forry/Aegislash and rock slide shits on ho-oh. CC for Arceus.
Rock sldie is a must anyway, coz it's a free kill on ho-oh
People already ran 56 speed Evs with geomancy before..... It's not a new concept. Running rock slide on geomancy set is just stupid since it limits your coverage not to mention you need a lot of attack investment to ko bulky ho oh (200+ atk Evs lol) which would be stupid to run when you can thunder for comparable damage or better yet, not use geomancy when your opp has a healthy ho oh with sr off.... Overall a terrible suggestion, and too lazy to do calcs but I'm positive 252+ SpA moonblast after a geomancy does far more than a 252+ atk close combat on arceus.....
Uhh, noticing the All-Out Attacker set, a good idea for it would be to slash an expert belt on to it. Doing this may lessen your power a bit, but it allows Xerneas to bluff power herb or scarf. This could be good, as, for example, somebody switches in their ho-oh on to your xern when you use moonblast. They probably think it's a geoxern, or more likely, a scarf. Then, you can surprise them by using rock slide. With a life orb, they'll probably know it's an All-Out attacker right off the bat.
Hidden Power [Rock] is my gem, it lures out Ho-Oh and:
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Rock vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ho-Oh: 308-364 (74 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 169-201 (42.8 - 51%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO
That's why I nicknamed my Xerneas fuck Ho-Oh
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Rock vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ho-Oh: 308-364 (74 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 169-201 (42.8 - 51%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO
That's why I nicknamed my Xerneas fuck Ho-Oh
I could give a copy of a 31/x/31/31/31/31 timid xerneas I have if you wish to have a viable one competitively.
On topic, has anyone had success usnig polop's defensive cm set?
Xerneas is very odd, unlike its avian cousin. It has the stat distribution and moveset to go physical, but its best moves (Geomancy and Moonblast) are special. So, where to focus?
So I decided to try a mixed attacker.
Xerneas @ Power Herb
56HP/252Atk/200Spd
Naive nature
-Moonblast
-Close Combat
-Outrage/Psyshock
-Geomancy
Didn't work all that well, due to meh coverage. Outrage was decidedly underused, especially since it made Xerneas unreliable after 2-3 turns. Currently experimenting with Psyshock over Outrage, and it's definitely better covered.
Also keep in mind, I am still fairly new to the world of competitive battling outside of my little group of friends. :P
So I decided to try a mixed attacker.
Xerneas @ Power Herb
56HP/252Atk/200Spd
Naive nature
-Moonblast
-Close Combat
-Outrage/Psyshock
-Geomancy
Didn't work all that well, due to meh coverage. Outrage was decidedly underused, especially since it made Xerneas unreliable after 2-3 turns. Currently experimenting with Psyshock over Outrage, and it's definitely better covered.
Also keep in mind, I am still fairly new to the world of competitive battling outside of my little group of friends. :P
There's a mixed attacking set, but it doesn't typically run Geomancy. It also typically runs a +SpA nature (although +Spe is still viable). See the 2nd set in the analysis thread's OP for more details.
Lol at the fact that people thought power herb xerneas is terrible and gets walled by many threats during the early meta game. Love it on my ubers team but I know it's very common now so I usually carry a ditto to help me out. It works surprisingly
Uh... We never once thought that. We thought it was the most broken thing ever hence why there were many users calling for a PH + geomancy ban. PH + geomancy isn't the ultimate mon like we all thought it was but it's still very good and no one denies that.
Rotosect
Banned deucer.
We thought GeoXerneas would end up like this (pretend the guy being chased is a generic uber dragon):
But still it can't be denied that the threat of GeoXerneas is extremely overcentralizing and every successful team prepares for it, much like Kyogre and Mega Gengar.
It is broken, but then again a lot of things are in ubers so it evens out.
But still it can't be denied that the threat of GeoXerneas is extremely overcentralizing and every successful team prepares for it, much like Kyogre and Mega Gengar.
It is broken, but then again a lot of things are in ubers so it evens out.
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DoW
formally Death on Wings
Assault Vest Metagross should be listed under counters; for Power Herb sets it can switch in while Xerneas uses Geomancy, tank any hit, then follow up with Meteor Mash and Bullet Punch if this doesn't KO. Meanwhile sets that don't use Geomancy can't 2HKO and are therefore beaten by Metagross.
Stats:
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Metagross: 212-250 (58.2 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 348-410 (88.3 - 104%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
Stats:
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Metagross: 212-250 (58.2 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 348-410 (88.3 - 104%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
That is a huge amount of Damage and it has even less recovery than aegis. Not to mention it fails to even ohko standard xern which is laughable. It seems even more specialized than aegis is a sense since meta also gets wrecked by the majority of non fairy special attackers in addition to a totally ass typing letting it get beaten by a majority of major threats such as ygod, groudon, kyogre, Ho oh, etc. overall I feel meta is too much shit to consider using.
DoW
formally Death on Wings
Hmm, that's a good point. To be fair, I'm not sure Meta's entirely bad as a Xerneas counter if compared to, say, Assault Vest Scizor (stats below), but its inability to deal particularly well with other pokes is a good point. I've found it can deal reasonably with a few other pokes such as attacking an arceus while it sets up, forcing ttar out due to hammer arm or coming in on a pink blob's toxic, however there is probably a poke that does the job better.
The job of tanking outrage-spams probably isn't as much of an issue any more due to fairies, ironically.
Scizor stats:
252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Scizor: 232-276 (67.4 - 80.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 224-266 (56.8 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Metagames adapt around threats. It happened to Kyogre, and it happened to Ekiller. The same thing will happen to Xerneas. I would say that Mega Gengar is the true S-Tier terror. Mega Gar rips momentum away from your opponent, and can take down at LEAST two Pokemon if you play it well (Destiny Bond). When it's paired with GeoXern and many hyper offensive Pokemon (Darkrai, Ditto, Specs Ogre, Band Ho-Oh, etc), the sheer offensive pressure makes it hard for any team to win. GeoXern is good, but the two-turn charge up means that even with a Power Herb, GeoXerneas can be beaten and checked by Pokemon like Scizor, Metagross, Jirachi, and more.We thought GeoXerneas would end up like this (pretend the guy being chased is a generic uber dragon):
But still it can't be denied that the threat of GeoXerneas is extremely overcentralizing and every successful team prepares for it, much like Kyogre and Mega Gengar.
It is broken, but then again a lot of things are in ubers so it evens out.
The Ubers metagame is inherently unbalanced, but in time, it will stabilize; it has in the past.
What happened was that in early XY everybody was using Aegislash, Defog + Ho-Oh, and really defensive teams. GeoXern was a very mediocre choice in this metagame. Then everybody realized how good Shadow Tag was and how weak all those early metagame teams were to it. Now, the metagame is much more offensively oriented and people don't use crummy, specialized mons like Aegislash anymore so GeoXern is much more effective.
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