np: XY UU Stage 1 - Reload [Salamence: BL | Next: DROPS!!!]

[EonX]

So far, I haven't been able to play any games (man, fuk moving. too time-consuming) but if it's anything like it was before Weavile got the boot, I can see M-Aggron becoming a much more relevant force (as if it wasn't a big force already) considering it resists Ice, dgaf about Knock Off, and only fears Low Kick... which it can tank out and KO Weavile with Heavy Slam. What's worse (for Weavile) is that M-Aggron can also set up Rocks that it doesn't like. I think Escavalier is another Pokemon that will probably rise up to handle Weavile. Although it gets hurt more by Knock Off, it isn't phased nearly as much by Low Kick and it can use either STAB to murder Weavile. M-Manectric will likely be the safest check offensive teams have considering it isn't crippled by Knock Off, outspeeds and KOs with Overheat / Flamethrower, and has Intimidate to lessen the blow from Ice Shard.

The Suicune issue is well documented. That being said, as strong of a force it is between CroCune and Offensive CM (I actually prefer the latter since I suck with stall) there are plenty of solid Grass- and Electric-types to handle it offensively (Roserade, Shaymin, Celebi, Raikou, M-Manectric) while you can use powerful physical attackers as kokoloko mentioned to keep pressure on it. Most will 2HKO the Offensive CM set while 3HKOing the CroCune set. That said, I do want to bring some attention to Offensive CM Suicune, which I think is kinda anti-meta right now considering the high fear factor of the CroCune set:

Suicune @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Calm Mind
- Hydro Pump / Scald
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power Grass​

So, as Suicune uses Calm Mind, you bring in the Grass-type that is supposed to be super safe against it. Whoops, you fail to OHKO and get an Ice Beam to the face. That Gastrodon that was supposed to wall Suicune to hell? Just ate an HP Grass and got murdered. That Mega Manectric that was supposed to 2HKO Suicune before it could 2HKO back? Yeah, just got OHKOed by Hydro Pump. I think you see where I'm going with this. A lot of common Suicune responses get wrecked by this set pretty hard. Hydro Pump is super strong, but if that accuracy bugs you, Scald is a nice alternative since it has a neat 30% burn chance. Use Life Orb with Hydro Pump and Leftovers with Scald. Only other thing to consider is Extrasensory to donk Suicune and stick it to Toxicroak, but Croak is still taking a buttload from +1 LO Ice Beam, enough to where a little prior damage ensures the OHKO.

 

[pokemonisfun]

Keep in mind you lose the majority of your defensive utility because you use Life Orb to get your kills and frankly Hydro Pump isn't reliable at all for something that needs a boost (you spend a turn boosting and 20% of the time you waste not only your attacking turn but your boosting turn as well).

You only get to check fire types with this set and barely so even because Victini gets a massively strong Bolt Strike.

 

[EonX]

hilarious , I can understand the concerns people have with Offensive CM Suicune, but it's supposed to be an offensive sweeper. Unlike CroCune, it doesn't want to use its bulk to set up. It simply wants to get a single boost and wreck shit. This is why Offensive CM Suicune should be used on more offensive teams. It has the bulk to tank a hit or two during a sweep, but you should definitely rely on something else to handle what CroCune usually does defensively. Remember, Offensive CM Suicune is used in an offensive fashion while CroCune is used in a more defensive manner. You still have the natural bulk Suicune has to tank a hit during your sweep. I know CroCune is probably Suicune's most dangerous set, but Offensive CM turns the tables on many of the things used to typically respond to Suicune due to the threat of CroCune. And as for the accuracy thing with Hydro Pump, that's pretty much the same problem any boosting sweeper that uses an inaccurate STAB move. NP Mega Houndoom is missing Fire Blast 15% of the time. And unlike Suicune, it doesn't really have the bulk to afford the miss most of the time. Shaymin is missing Seed Flare 15% of the time, but that doesn't make staying in on it as a special wall any less risky.

CroCune may be more reliable, but Offensive CM is definitely strong and something that not a lot of people expect right now. And hey, at least you have the bulk to tank a neutral or weaker super effective hit if you do miss.

 

[pokemonisfun]

Houndoom has access to Dark Pulse which does the job of killing whatever it needs to most of the time after a boost and always can rely on Flamethrower and still get all the KOs it needs at +2 against offensive Pokemon. I personally can't think of a single offensive UU Pokemon that can take a hit from +2 even if you use Flamethrower so yeah Suicune has big accuracy issues not present with Houndoom (Suicune has no other reliable STAB to use in conjunction with Hydro Pump although I suspect using Scald and Hydro Pump is not a terribly poor idea).

Shaymin has an 85% accurate Seed Flare but unlike Suicune it doesn't actually use a boosting move so a miss is just a wasted turn as opposed to a wasted two turns. That's a sizable difference and obviously can be game changing.

Offensive Suicune does beat many of Crocune's counters but it doesn't do so gracefully at all. I mean yes I guess it beats Roserade but it still loses lots of health to her in the process and if it gets slept well it outright loses. Yes +1 Ice Beam will KO Shaymin but at +1 Seed Flare still mauls you and if you factor in residual SR and LO damage it is basically a tie and both of the guys die in the process.

Luring in Gastrodon and possibly Swampert is quite nice but you don't need to be offensive for that since Crocune beats both anyways, invariably.

Mega Manectric is not quite as strong as Seed Flare from Shaymin but Suicune will be extremely weak after the match up assuming best case for Suicune anyways and completely lost 20% of the time.

I am pretty sure what this post has is dismantling the reasons you said for using offensive Suicune, if it really is effective I would at least like to see a replay or two of it doing work.

 

[Pocket]

I know NP Doom has been mentioned a lot, but isn't Sunny Day Houndoom a lot better? With sun and Solar Power boost, its Fire Blast is hitting much harder than a boost from Nasty Plot. Even more, it gets a nasty coverage move in SolarBeam, too. If Doom gets a chance to boost up, I'd rather set up Sunny Day than a Nasty Plot (assuming the dog only gets one turn to set up at most)

252 SpA Solar Power Mega Houndoom Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon in Sun: 378-445 (90 - 105.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Solar Power Mega Houndoom Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Suicune in Sun: 366-432 (90.5 - 106.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

Watch out for opposing Scarfed Fire-types like Victini or Darmanitan, though.

 

[Punchshroom]

I know NP Doom has been mentioned a lot, but isn't Sunny Day Houndoom a lot better? With sun and Solar Power boost, its Fire Blast is hitting much harder than a boost from Nasty Plot. Even more, it gets a nasty coverage move in SolarBeam, too. If Doom gets a chance to boost up, I'd rather set up Sunny Day than a Nasty Plot (assuming the dog only gets one turn to set up at most)

252 SpA Solar Power Mega Houndoom Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon in Sun: 378-445 (90 - 105.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Solar Power Mega Houndoom Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Suicune in Sun: 366-432 (90.5 - 106.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

Watch out for opposing Scarfed Fire-types like Victini or Darmanitan, though.

The Nasty Plot set has the benefit in not getting stalled out by premier Protect users, allowing Mega Houndoom to break through them with no repurcussions or letting it beat them at all (and even punish careless Protects with more Nasty Plots). Also, NPdoom is less screwed over by hazards than SunDoom, since it doesn't take 25% just to get a solid kill.

 

[kokoloko]

yeah my main issue with sunny day doomer is the inability to set up more than once on walls. you're not breaking through Umbreon/florges with sunny day doomer :/ plus the lack of recoil let's you tank a stray scald from suicune anyway so you should beat it too.

 

[Drawler]

Is Destiny Bond still the standard 4th move on the NP set ? I ran Sucker Punch for quite some time before switching to DB and honestly, I think it was more useful.

 

[AwesomeFennekin]

So, I saw that Zygarde got the Axe.

 

[Ajna]

Is Destiny Bond still the standard 4th move on the NP set ? I ran Sucker Punch for quite some time before switching to DB and honestly, I think it was more useful.

I run sub but idk what's standard

 

[Mazz]

Is Destiny Bond still the standard 4th move on the NP set ? I ran Sucker Punch for quite some time before switching to DB and honestly, I think it was more useful.

The fourth slot on Mega-Houndoom is open to quite a few things actually. Destiny Bond, Taunt, Sludge Bomb, Sucker Punch, and Substitute are all viable and solid options for Mega-Houndoom to consider using. It really depends on what your team needs, but Destiny Bond and Taunt are usually considered the best (term used loosely) options.

 

[Explorer]

Is Destiny Bond still the standard 4th move on the NP set ? I ran Sucker Punch for quite some time before switching to DB and honestly, I think it was more useful.

I think so, but in many cases I prefer Sucker Punch as well. I suppose you could also run Solarbeam with Sun Support, but in most cases I would not recommend it.

 

[North]

I never really saw mega houndoom as a threat. I mean this may just be because he was outclassed by other megas or just how i build my team but if someone can explain to me why mega houndoom got banned

 

[Ununhexium]

I never really saw mega houndoom as a threat. I mean this may just be because he was outclassed by other megas or just how i build my team but if someone can explain to me why mega houndoom got banned

mega houndoom had a nice speed tier and it was versatile and had some really nice move options. it was unbanned because it fell just short of killing a few things and the fact that it could still be revenge killed

 

[HispanicPanic]

I never really saw mega houndoom as a threat. I mean this may just be because he was outclassed by other megas or just how i build my team but if someone can explain to me why mega houndoom got banned

Mega Doom was never outclassed considering it's consistently been S/A+ rank since it's been in UU. It's in fact, probably the best offensive Mega in UU right now. I'm pretty sure it was banned because it was potentially broken, and it was brought back in to be re-tested which concluded that it should stay UU. It was kinda of hard to the NP variants once Chansey left the tier because there wasn't a lot left in UU that could take a +2 Fire Blast or Dark Pulse. Not to mention the fact the fact that it often runs Taunt / Destiny Bond which can screw over both Defensively and Offensively oriented teams' methods of getting rid of it. There's a few ways to deal with it now, but it's still a pretty big threat to watch out for.

 

[/B/utterfree]

So, I saw that Zygarde got the Axe.

Yes. Zygarde is much more formidable than people give it credit for, doesn't need much in the way of partners aside from a Special-based Bulky Water, and generally wrecks enough shit with so few counters that, even though it means I'll need a new teammate for Based Shuckle, its departure from UU is good riddance.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

You know what would be the scariest drop?

Volcarona.

Yeah fuck that shit. Solid combination of SpA and Speed, access to the best boosting move in the game, and actually pretty difficult to revenge at +1 (Modest Volcarona for example outruns jolly 252 mega aerodactyl at +1). It can boost his SpA further with Fiery Dance, and his STABs actually have pretty solid power behind it (kek aero).

I'm not too sure about OU atm but at #48, it has a much more real chance of dropping compared to Clefable or Sylveon. Seriously though how is Clefable dropping, that thing is A rank on OU viability and is very solid in there. Sylveon is somewhat solid in OU atm but given that he's a godsend to teams countering swagplay I'm pretty sure he'll have some solid usage this month at least, preventing him from dropping.

also yeah whimsicott isn't getting axed, it's annoying but... that's it. hardly broken. priority encore and such is annoying, but not really difficult to deal with, as long as you know what's going on...

 

[Mahmudkipz]

You know what would be the scariest drop?

Volcarona.

Yeah fuck that shit. Solid combination of SpA and Speed, access to the best boosting move in the game, and actually pretty difficult to revenge at +1 (Modest Volcarona for example outruns jolly 252 mega aerodactyl at +1). It can boost his SpA further with Fiery Dance, and his STABs actually have pretty solid power behind it (kek aero).

I'm not too sure about OU atm but at #48, it has a much more real chance of dropping compared to Clefable or Sylveon. Seriously though how is Clefable dropping, that thing is A rank on OU viability and is very solid in there. Sylveon is somewhat solid in OU atm but given that he's a godsend to teams countering swagplay I'm pretty sure he'll have some solid usage this month at least, preventing him from dropping.

also yeah whimsicott isn't getting axed, it's annoying but... that's it. hardly broken. priority encore and such is annoying, but not really difficult to deal with, as long as you know what's going on...

Agreeing with most of what you said, with all the birds and their Flying pirority up there, Volcarona have a hard time shining in the OU metagame. Along side Volcarona I assume that Infernape will most likely drop well...

If I were to make a BL prediction it'd be Mega Absol if anything. Poccessing one of if not the strongest and fastest Sucker Punch in the metagame as well as a handy ability in Magic Bounce, Mega Absol basically forces its opponent to eat a STAB Sucker Punch coming off from a gigantic 150 base attack if they want to touch Mega Absol. If the opponent decides to be cheeky and boost while Absol tries to Sucker Punch, it can punish the opponent by either boosting itself with SD or let the opponent eat a STAB Knock Off that will cripple if not kill the enemy.

 

[Machi]

Agreeing with most of what you said, with all the birds and their Flying pirority up there, Volcarona have a hard time shining in the OU metagame. Along side Volcarona I assume that Infernape will most likely drop well...

If I were to make a BL prediction it'd be Mega Absol if anything. Poccessing one of if not the strongest and fastest Sucker Punch in the metagame as well as a handy ability in Magic Bounce, Mega Absol basically forces its opponent to eat a STAB Sucker Punch coming off from a gigantic 150 base attack if they want to touch Mega Absol. If the opponent decides to be cheeky and boost while Absol tries to Sucker Punch, it can punish the opponent by either boosting itself with SD or let the opponent eat a STAB Knock Off that will cripple if not kill the enemy.

What makes it difficult for Volc up there is that he is first and foremost a set up sweeper, which Talonflame just ruins its fun, so while Defog has given it better opportunities the omnipresent Talonflame and by extension MPinsir and Azumaril prevent it from easily finding as much opportunities.

With regard to Absol his issue is primarily his base form, which makes it very difficult for him to mega-evolve, in addition to his more or less non-existent defenses that leaves him as a glass canon making it difficult to find him switch in opportunities as well as letting him stay. Unlike MDoom his mega form doesn't really patch up any of his existing issues.

 

[Mahmudkipz]

What makes it difficult for Volc up there is that he is first and foremost a set up sweeper, which Talonflame just ruins its fun, so while Defog has given it better opportunities the omnipresent Talonflame and by extension MPinsir and Azumaril prevent it from easily finding as much opportunities.

With regard to Absol his issue is primarily his base form, which makes it very difficult for him to mega-evolve, in addition to his more or less non-existent defenses that leaves him as a glass canon making it difficult to find him switch in opportunities as well as letting him stay. Unlike MDoom his mega form doesn't really patch up any of his existing issues.

You pretty much nailed it with Volc, but I would like to add that Keldeo and Terrakion rising in usage does not help it either.

Yeah Absol is still frail as glass but you have to realize once it gets a safe switch in (i.e. by sacking a mon or a slow pivot) it can put in a lot of work. Outside of Sucker Punch and Knock Off, it is very versatile as well, having a respectalbe SpA as well as a vast special move pool allowing it to go mixed to take care of weakened physical walls, while Magic Bounce allows it to utilize Baton Pass easily to support its teammates. It is also hard to revenge kill as it fires off Sucker Punches at a 115 base speed, which is probably the fastest pirority in UU bar Extreme Speed, a move pocessed by the Legendary Beasts and Arcanine only (well, lol Dragonair) in the tier, and Weavile's Ice Shard, who loses to Superpower or Play Rough. Worst comes to worst there is still Fake Out but that generally means you have to sack other mons just to get off the Fake Outs to kill Mega Absol. 115 speed means it outspeed means that it outspeeds most of the unboosted metagame, and common Scarfers like Darmanitan and Victini unfortunately don't carry pirority so they will die to a Sucker Punch.

But that is not saying Absol is absolutely broken in UU as Fairies Florges walls it comfortably unless it gets to +2 and has a neutral move to hit it. Usual Scarfers like Heracross who resists its Sucker Punch can also atttempt to revenge kill it but it still loses a huge chunk of health to a +2 Sucker Punch. There is still the aforementioned Extreme Speed, but the only notable users are Arcanine and Entei now that Zygarde is gone. Repeated Initimidate can also be used to weaken Absol but good luck with that because it only works just as well as the Fake Out strategy.

 

[jamashawalker]

also yeah whimsicott isn't getting axed, it's annoying but... that's it. hardly broken. priority encore and such is annoying, but not really difficult to deal with, as long as you know what's going on...

I like priority stun spore. Deadliest thing people are forgetting about whimiscott

 

[UU ALL DAY]

Although I am all for some of these OU mons being OU, I think we have to accept that with each passing generation, the Underused tiers, and all tiers for that matter, get stronger and stronger. I am wondering if it is better to adapt to it, as in let threats be threats, or to make new tiers. The best example would be Ubers, a banlist, potentially banning a couple of threats, namely Mega-Gar and stuff like that.

Personally, I would like if it 6th gen UU is kind of like 5th gen OU, minus the weather. Mence and Volc would be deadly, but then more threats would also be down there, you guys feel me? Either case, I'll be sure to enjoy the tier as is!

 

[Schpoonman]

The problem with that is that we ARE accepting power creep. Two generations ago, Heracross, Raikou, Cresselia, Porygon-Z, Gallade, Yanmega, and Honchkrow were all BL. The threshold has been raised so that these Pokemon are no longer too powerful for the tier, but we're finding that OTHER Pokemon are too powerful even for that raised threshold.

I'd love to have Diggersby and Crawdaunt back in UU, my Sticky Web team doesn't work without them, but they're not healthy for the metagame at large.

 

[Jaguar360]

But that is not saying Absol is absolutely broken in UU as Fairies Florges walls it comfortably unless it gets to +2 and has a neutral move to hit it. Usual Scarfers like Heracross who resists its Sucker Punch can also atttempt to revenge kill it but it still loses a huge chunk of health to a +2 Sucker Punch. There is still the aforementioned Extreme Speed, but the only notable users are Arcanine and Entei now that Zygarde is gone. Repeated Initimidate can also be used to weaken Absol but good luck with that because it only works just as well as the Fake Out strategy.

Completely agreed with your post, but I'd like to note that Absol can carry Iron Tail as a move tutor from Gen 5 or a TM from Gens 3 and 4. It's a shame that it can't be paired with Play Rough however, as that would give Absol perfect coverage. Still, Iron Tail is good to have so that Florges can't wall it without a Swords Dance up. If Swords Dance is not being used Iron Tail is pretty much a must IMO.

 

[Schpoonman]

What makes it difficult for Volc up there is that he is first and foremost a set up sweeper, which Talonflame just ruins its fun, so while Defog has given it better opportunities the omnipresent Talonflame and by extension MPinsir and Azumaril prevent it from easily finding as much opportunities.

With regard to Absol his issue is primarily his base form, which makes it very difficult for him to mega-evolve, in addition to his more or less non-existent defenses that leaves him as a glass canon making it difficult to find him switch in opportunities as well as letting him stay. Unlike MDoom his mega form doesn't really patch up any of his existing issues.

I would argue against Mega Absol doing nothing to patch up his existing problems. It actually takes care off 99% of them. His speed is patched up so you can more easily bring that gargantuan attack stat to bear without being forced to rely on Sucker Punch. He gets a boosted Special Attack so he can use his excellent special movepool. Finally, he gets Magic Bounce, so no more statusing him/phazing him as he goes for Sucker Punch. The only problem it doesn't fix is his status as a glass cannon, but now he's a glass cannon with an emphasis on "cannon" instead of "glass".