Just one nitpick but Charizard isn't affected by sticky web
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Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V2) (Last update on post #5189)
- Thread starter alexwolf
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I meant Charizard X after it mega evolved. Thank you for clarifying that.
Last edited:
The situation being discussed is charizard coming in on galvantula not the other way around. Galvantula vs charizard is largely irrelevant though considering neither should really be coming in on the other unless a charizard x wants to come in and setup on galvantula in which case glavantula is able to thunder wave and cripple x. Although I stand by my earlier statement that these two Pokemon should rarely if ever meet.
Then why are you discussing something that's almost never gonna happen.
I believe we started talking about something as irrelevant as this because I accidently said that charizard y was crippled by sticky web when I meant charizard x. None of what I said had anything to do with galvantula vs. Charizard. lzh14 just mentioned it in passing because he was clarifying my mistake.
Can we please keep this thread on track? I don't want another Mega Heracross length disscussion. Can we just make our final points?
so yeah i think the list needs a big update and i would like to contribute a bit :3
firstly mega gyarados for s rank, probably best dd mon right now: incredible bulk + intimidate, ability to change type and mold breaker that allows him to be amazingly good vs stall, and beting the unaware core, unlike other dder like char-x, ttar etc. also i think that has been proof in tours etc.
mega garchomp out of a+. really good for dedicated sand teams and good wallbreaker in general, but not in the level as the other s and a+ megas. i think a- (or even b+) would be better place.
manaphy for a. tail glow set is still cool but too slow to threaten offense and not enough powerful to break stall. cm + rd is really cool and good right now, but need some support. so definitely not a threat as others like landorus, keldeo and co.
clefable for a+. amazing mon at everything: versatile, incredible 2 abilities, can fit in a lot of teams, and simply i think everyone knows how good this thing is. there's a reason because it has been used a lot in spl... so yeah a+
greninja for a+. amazing speed and power. just a threat to a lot of teams and really few things can handle it.
ferrothorn for a. ferro is actually amazingly good. checks a fuckton of threats like m-gyara, azumarill, excadrill, etc; leech seed is fucking annoying, and supporting with hazards and twave makes him really really good.
regular scizor out of a. well im not quite sure about that because i havent it as much, but m-scizor does everything better except the cb set obv lol. but cb scizor is not actually quite good in this meta: has a lot of troulbes with top threat like aegislash, keldeo, both charizards, etc. maybe b or someplace similar but idk
raikou for b+. ive made a post about that long time ago: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/xy-ou-viability-ranking-thread-b-and-c-pokemon-discussion.3495992/page-195#post-5295811 well right now i think cm + 3 attacks is far better than av, but still the points remains, and i know other people in vr version post about that.
conkeldurr out of a-. conkeldurr cant check a lot of threats right now, is not powerful at all, and right now a lot of things are using flying and psychic moves because of m-venu like greninja, thundurus, manaphy etc., so much more harder to conkeldurr to do things succesfully. essentially was pretty anti-meta in gene + m-luke era, but right now its not good. i think b or b+ (idc) are the right place.
quagsire for b at least maybe +. just a really important piece of stall: stops cold a lot of threatening things like dd m-ttar, char-x, belly drum azumarill etc., not good outside of stall, but because stall is quite decent right now it deservers it.
well i think of others changes like terra and gengar for a, regular gyara for b, mamoswine for b+, breloom for b, rotom-w for a-, and some more but i think that's enough for now. also in c ranks there is a lot of garbage that should be remove like machamp, rotom-c etc that should be removed pls.
firstly mega gyarados for s rank, probably best dd mon right now: incredible bulk + intimidate, ability to change type and mold breaker that allows him to be amazingly good vs stall, and beting the unaware core, unlike other dder like char-x, ttar etc. also i think that has been proof in tours etc.
mega garchomp out of a+. really good for dedicated sand teams and good wallbreaker in general, but not in the level as the other s and a+ megas. i think a- (or even b+) would be better place.
manaphy for a. tail glow set is still cool but too slow to threaten offense and not enough powerful to break stall. cm + rd is really cool and good right now, but need some support. so definitely not a threat as others like landorus, keldeo and co.
clefable for a+. amazing mon at everything: versatile, incredible 2 abilities, can fit in a lot of teams, and simply i think everyone knows how good this thing is. there's a reason because it has been used a lot in spl... so yeah a+
greninja for a+. amazing speed and power. just a threat to a lot of teams and really few things can handle it.
ferrothorn for a. ferro is actually amazingly good. checks a fuckton of threats like m-gyara, azumarill, excadrill, etc; leech seed is fucking annoying, and supporting with hazards and twave makes him really really good.
regular scizor out of a. well im not quite sure about that because i havent it as much, but m-scizor does everything better except the cb set obv lol. but cb scizor is not actually quite good in this meta: has a lot of troulbes with top threat like aegislash, keldeo, both charizards, etc. maybe b or someplace similar but idk
raikou for b+. ive made a post about that long time ago: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/xy-ou-viability-ranking-thread-b-and-c-pokemon-discussion.3495992/page-195#post-5295811 well right now i think cm + 3 attacks is far better than av, but still the points remains, and i know other people in vr version post about that.
conkeldurr out of a-. conkeldurr cant check a lot of threats right now, is not powerful at all, and right now a lot of things are using flying and psychic moves because of m-venu like greninja, thundurus, manaphy etc., so much more harder to conkeldurr to do things succesfully. essentially was pretty anti-meta in gene + m-luke era, but right now its not good. i think b or b+ (idc) are the right place.
quagsire for b at least maybe +. just a really important piece of stall: stops cold a lot of threatening things like dd m-ttar, char-x, belly drum azumarill etc., not good outside of stall, but because stall is quite decent right now it deservers it.
well i think of others changes like terra and gengar for a, regular gyara for b, mamoswine for b+, breloom for b, rotom-w for a-, and some more but i think that's enough for now. also in c ranks there is a lot of garbage that should be remove like machamp, rotom-c etc that should be removed pls.
I'm pretty sure there's another rank for that: F, as in failure.
I don't think the rankings on this thread have been updated since the VR version was created. Honestly, all the VR version of this thread has done is create delays and confusion. Hardly anyone posts on that thread anyway, so I still don't see the point of having it. There have been many good arguments posted on this thread, and sadly it looks like they are all being ignored.
Farfetch'd for S rank is way too farfetched when it has counters like onix around. It's onixceptable to leave onix off the list when it counters the almighty farfetch'd. Farfetch'd A+ rank, onix S rank.
April Fool's Day is over. Go home, you're both drunk.
Let's talk about pokemon that, IMO, don't get enough love in the rankings. Since I'm not a stall player, I'm gonna ask you guys, what Stall pokemon do you think need to go up or down the rankings?
Here are my thoughts on the current A-Rank Pokemon and what ranks they belong in:
A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame, but require some support or have some flaws that prevents them from doing this consistently. Supporting Pokemon in this rank may give opponents free turns or cannot create free turns easily themselves, but can still do their job most of the time
A+ Rank
Azumarill
Azumarill is a powerhouse! It is very great with two sets: Belly Drum and Choice Band. I've always found the AV Set to be lacking, but whatever. However, I feel as if Azumarill should be dropped to A. Now this may seem crazy, but Azumarill doesn't really live up to A+. I find that it is too easily walled by stuff such as Aegislash and Ferrothorn. It is also too slow to avoid being hit and if the target resists Aqua Jet, it isn't good. However Azumarill does have an amazing typing and ensures that not much can switchin without being hurt in the process. But despite its amazing power, I just am always let down by its mediocre Speed and bulk. I'd be ok with it in A+, but I feel as if A is the better home for it.
Bisharp
Bisharp is an interesting Pokemon. It is extremely powerful and is a great Pokemon in OU currently! I think it earns its spot in A+ Rank!
Deoxys-D
Well, I think Deoxys-D should be S-Rank. It can single handedly support its team tremendously and almost always gets up at least two hazards, while it can cripple with either Taunt / Thunder Wave. It is such an amazing Pokemon that I feel is totally deserving of S-Ranking!
Deoxys-S
Deoxys-S earns its spot in A+, its offensive set is very powerful and it is a nice Pokemon! I don't think it is broken and should move to S, but it certainly should not drop to A.
Garchomp / Garchomp (Mega)
I don't get why people are saying Garchomp-Mega should drop, in all honesty. It is a very powerful mixed wallbreaker that has a few flaws. I think it is perfectly fine where it is, along with Garchomp.
Gyarados (Mega)
Gyarados-Mega is most certainly S-Rank. It is one of the absolutely best Pokemon to use Dragon Dance, coupled with a great typing, amazing bulk, and Intimidate, along with Ice Fang and Earthquake to muscle past two good walls - Rotom-W and M-Venusar, it is just broken as hell. It also can switch types at will which is very threatening, albeit it is only a one-time thing. It also plays the mind factor, as Gyarados does not need to Mega Evolve to be good, so they won't know until you do. It can sweep through weakened teams and requires very little support, very deserving of S-Rank.
Heatran
Heatran is... Heatran. Nothing to say here.
Keldeo
Keldeo is fine where it is, not much too discuss.
Kyurem-B
Kyurem-B I would like to discuss, as it is seriously amazing. I think it deserves to stay where it is, but it is a very large threat.
Landorus-I
Fine.
Landorus-T
Fine.
Manaphy
I'm feeling as if Manaphy should drop down to A-Rank. Ok, so yeah, it isn't actually as bulky as it seems and its Speed is lacking for a sweeper. Tail Glow is cool and all, but it is too easily beaten by the likes of Thundurus and other Electric-types. Not to mention it can't beat dedicated Special Walls. But, in Manaphy's defense, it is not walled by Rotom-W by carrying Psychic, contrary o popular belief. Psychic 2HKOes 252/252+ which isn't even common, so this isn't really a good argument.
Mawile (Mega)
I feel like Mawile Mega is iffy, I'd like to see it in A-Rank simply because it is so slow and weak to too many common types, but it is very powerful and a great wallbreaker, so I think it is fine where it is, but I wouldn't mind a drop.
Scizor (Mega)
I made a whole long post about Scizor-M for S-Rank, but yeah it wasn't discussed much.
Talonflame
Meh.
Tyranitar (Mega)
Ok, so Tyranitar-Mega is one final change I'd see fit for A+, with M-Tyranitar moving up to S-Rank. It is so freaking bulky.
252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 86-101 (21.2 - 25%)
252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 114-136 (15.9 - 19%)
That's just a 5% difference, and with Specially Defensive sets:
252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 64-75 (15.8 - 18.5%) -- possible 6HKO
It's bulkier than fucking Blissey, with a large amount of power. Look at it survive a powerful Fighting-type move:
252 Atk Thundurus Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 340-400 (84.1 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And then a Scizor appears:
0+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 144-170 (35.6 - 42%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 0+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 284-336 (70.2 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
That's just insane. I prefer the DD Set, but seriously defensive kinds are great too! I think it is just such a versatile powerhouse deserving of S-rank.
Venusaur (Mega)
Fine.
A Rank
Clefable
Pls move to A+. It is such a versatile defensive and offensive Pokemon that requires little support, but in return provides immense support.
Excadrill
Fine.
Greninja
A+. Its mixture of Speed and sheer power and versatility is more than enough for A+. It can switch types at will with no drawbacks, it is very unpredictable and hard to take down if not packing a Defensive wall honestly.
Hippowdon
Fine.
Latias
Latias for A--Rank. It lacks so much power and just isn't cutting it in A-rank. It is too easily Pursuit-trapped and outclassed offensively by Latios.
Latios
Fine.
Mandibuzz
Ok here.
Rotom-W
Fine.
Scizor
Fine.
Tyranitar
Fine.
A- Rank
Chansey
Conkeldurr
Dragonite
Gengar
Gyarados
Mamoswine
Skarmory
Terrakion
Ok so Terrakion should move up to A. It is a very threatening Pokemon with great STABs. However it has trouble with choiced sets thanks to Aegislash and is just not what it once was. However it is a very nice wallbreaker that deserves to move up a tier.
All fine in A-, bar Terrakion!
TL;DR:
A+ ---> A
A+ ---> S
A+ ---> A
A+ ---> A
A+ ---> S
A -----> A+
A -----> A+
A ----> A-
A- ----> A
Thoughts?
A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame, but require some support or have some flaws that prevents them from doing this consistently. Supporting Pokemon in this rank may give opponents free turns or cannot create free turns easily themselves, but can still do their job most of the time
A+ Rank
Azumarill is a powerhouse! It is very great with two sets: Belly Drum and Choice Band. I've always found the AV Set to be lacking, but whatever. However, I feel as if Azumarill should be dropped to A. Now this may seem crazy, but Azumarill doesn't really live up to A+. I find that it is too easily walled by stuff such as Aegislash and Ferrothorn. It is also too slow to avoid being hit and if the target resists Aqua Jet, it isn't good. However Azumarill does have an amazing typing and ensures that not much can switchin without being hurt in the process. But despite its amazing power, I just am always let down by its mediocre Speed and bulk. I'd be ok with it in A+, but I feel as if A is the better home for it.
Bisharp is an interesting Pokemon. It is extremely powerful and is a great Pokemon in OU currently! I think it earns its spot in A+ Rank!
Well, I think Deoxys-D should be S-Rank. It can single handedly support its team tremendously and almost always gets up at least two hazards, while it can cripple with either Taunt / Thunder Wave. It is such an amazing Pokemon that I feel is totally deserving of S-Ranking!
Deoxys-S earns its spot in A+, its offensive set is very powerful and it is a nice Pokemon! I don't think it is broken and should move to S, but it certainly should not drop to A.
I don't get why people are saying Garchomp-Mega should drop, in all honesty. It is a very powerful mixed wallbreaker that has a few flaws. I think it is perfectly fine where it is, along with Garchomp.
Gyarados-Mega is most certainly S-Rank. It is one of the absolutely best Pokemon to use Dragon Dance, coupled with a great typing, amazing bulk, and Intimidate, along with Ice Fang and Earthquake to muscle past two good walls - Rotom-W and M-Venusar, it is just broken as hell. It also can switch types at will which is very threatening, albeit it is only a one-time thing. It also plays the mind factor, as Gyarados does not need to Mega Evolve to be good, so they won't know until you do. It can sweep through weakened teams and requires very little support, very deserving of S-Rank.
Heatran is... Heatran. Nothing to say here.
Keldeo is fine where it is, not much too discuss.
Kyurem-B I would like to discuss, as it is seriously amazing. I think it deserves to stay where it is, but it is a very large threat.
Fine.
Fine.
I'm feeling as if Manaphy should drop down to A-Rank. Ok, so yeah, it isn't actually as bulky as it seems and its Speed is lacking for a sweeper. Tail Glow is cool and all, but it is too easily beaten by the likes of Thundurus and other Electric-types. Not to mention it can't beat dedicated Special Walls. But, in Manaphy's defense, it is not walled by Rotom-W by carrying Psychic, contrary o popular belief. Psychic 2HKOes 252/252+ which isn't even common, so this isn't really a good argument.
I feel like Mawile Mega is iffy, I'd like to see it in A-Rank simply because it is so slow and weak to too many common types, but it is very powerful and a great wallbreaker, so I think it is fine where it is, but I wouldn't mind a drop.
I made a whole long post about Scizor-M for S-Rank, but yeah it wasn't discussed much.
Meh.
Ok, so Tyranitar-Mega is one final change I'd see fit for A+, with M-Tyranitar moving up to S-Rank. It is so freaking bulky.
252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 86-101 (21.2 - 25%)
252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 114-136 (15.9 - 19%)
That's just a 5% difference, and with Specially Defensive sets:
252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 64-75 (15.8 - 18.5%) -- possible 6HKO
It's bulkier than fucking Blissey, with a large amount of power. Look at it survive a powerful Fighting-type move:
252 Atk Thundurus Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 340-400 (84.1 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And then a Scizor appears:
0+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 144-170 (35.6 - 42%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 0+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 284-336 (70.2 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
That's just insane. I prefer the DD Set, but seriously defensive kinds are great too! I think it is just such a versatile powerhouse deserving of S-rank.
Fine.
A Rank
Pls move to A+. It is such a versatile defensive and offensive Pokemon that requires little support, but in return provides immense support.
Fine.
A+. Its mixture of Speed and sheer power and versatility is more than enough for A+. It can switch types at will with no drawbacks, it is very unpredictable and hard to take down if not packing a Defensive wall honestly.
Fine.
Latias for A--Rank. It lacks so much power and just isn't cutting it in A-rank. It is too easily Pursuit-trapped and outclassed offensively by Latios.
Fine.
Ok here.
Fine.
Fine.
Fine.
A- Rank
Ok so Terrakion should move up to A. It is a very threatening Pokemon with great STABs. However it has trouble with choiced sets thanks to Aegislash and is just not what it once was. However it is a very nice wallbreaker that deserves to move up a tier.
All fine in A-, bar Terrakion!
TL;DR:
Thoughts?
Just to clarify, do you mean P2 and Slowbro should be bumped up or bumped down? Also does anybody else think that regular Tyranitar is more useful than M-Tyranitar, because he has great synergy with the rest of the Megas?
Both could easily go up ranks. Pory2 as a wall and Slowbro as a tank.
Mega Tyranitar is way better than tyranitar. Having all those defenses and then 170 Att is nothing to laugh at, especially after a dragon dance. Two dances puts you faster than Deo-S, gives you a sweep and basically nothing short of LO Loom can even touch you irrc.
Mega Tyranitar is way better than tyranitar. Having all those defenses and then 170 Att is nothing to laugh at, especially after a dragon dance. Two dances puts you faster than Deo-S, gives you a sweep and basically nothing short of LO Loom can even touch you irrc.
I shall indeed share my thoughtsHere are my thoughts on the current A-Rank Pokemon and what ranks they belong in:
A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame, but require some support or have some flaws that prevents them from doing this consistently. Supporting Pokemon in this rank may give opponents free turns or cannot create free turns easily themselves, but can still do their job most of the time
A+ Rank
Azumarill
Azumarill is a powerhouse! It is very great with two sets: Belly Drum and Choice Band. I've always found the AV Set to be lacking, but whatever. However, I feel as if Azumarill should be dropped to A. Now this may seem crazy, but Azumarill doesn't really live up to A+. I find that it is too easily walled by stuff such as Aegislash and Ferrothorn. It is also too slow to avoid being hit and if the target resists Aqua Jet, it isn't good. However Azumarill does have an amazing typing and ensures that not much can switchin without being hurt in the process. But despite its amazing power, I just am always let down by its mediocre Speed and bulk. I'd be ok with it in A+, but I feel as if A is the better home for it.
Bisharp
Bisharp is an interesting Pokemon. It is extremely powerful and is a great Pokemon in OU currently! I think it earns its spot in A+ Rank!
Deoxys-D
Well, I think Deoxys-D should be S-Rank. It can single handedly support its team tremendously and almost always gets up at least two hazards, while it can cripple with either Taunt / Thunder Wave. It is such an amazing Pokemon that I feel is totally deserving of S-Ranking!
Deoxys-S
Deoxys-S earns its spot in A+, its offensive set is very powerful and it is a nice Pokemon! I don't think it is broken and should move to S, but it certainly should not drop to A.
Garchomp / Garchomp (Mega)
I don't get why people are saying Garchomp-Mega should drop, in all honesty. It is a very powerful mixed wallbreaker that has a few flaws. I think it is perfectly fine where it is, along with Garchomp.
Gyarados (Mega)
Gyarados-Mega is most certainly S-Rank. It is one of the absolutely best Pokemon to use Dragon Dance, coupled with a great typing, amazing bulk, and Intimidate, along with Ice Fang and Earthquake to muscle past two good walls - Rotom-W and M-Venusar, it is just broken as hell. It also can switch types at will which is very threatening, albeit it is only a one-time thing. It also plays the mind factor, as Gyarados does not need to Mega Evolve to be good, so they won't know until you do. It can sweep through weakened teams and requires very little support, very deserving of S-Rank.
Heatran
Heatran is... Heatran. Nothing to say here.
Keldeo
Keldeo is fine where it is, not much too discuss.
Kyurem-B
Kyurem-B I would like to discuss, as it is seriously amazing. I think it deserves to stay where it is, but it is a very large threat.
Landorus-I
Fine.
Landorus-T
Fine.
Manaphy
I'm feeling as if Manaphy should drop down to A-Rank. Ok, so yeah, it isn't actually as bulky as it seems and its Speed is lacking for a sweeper. Tail Glow is cool and all, but it is too easily beaten by the likes of Thundurus and other Electric-types. Not to mention it can't beat dedicated Special Walls. But, in Manaphy's defense, it is not walled by Rotom-W by carrying Psychic, contrary o popular belief. Psychic 2HKOes 252/252+ which isn't even common, so this isn't really a good argument.
Mawile (Mega)
I feel like Mawile Mega is iffy, I'd like to see it in A-Rank simply because it is so slow and weak to too many common types, but it is very powerful and a great wallbreaker, so I think it is fine where it is, but I wouldn't mind a drop.
Scizor (Mega)
I made a whole long post about Scizor-M for S-Rank, but yeah it wasn't discussed much.
Talonflame
Meh.
Tyranitar (Mega)
Ok, so Tyranitar-Mega is one final change I'd see fit for A+, with M-Tyranitar moving up to S-Rank. It is so freaking bulky.
252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 86-101 (21.2 - 25%)
252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 114-136 (15.9 - 19%)
That's just a 5% difference, and with Specially Defensive sets:
252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 64-75 (15.8 - 18.5%) -- possible 6HKO
It's bulkier than fucking Blissey, with a large amount of power. Look at it survive a powerful Fighting-type move:
252 Atk Thundurus Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 340-400 (84.1 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And then a Scizor appears:
0+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 144-170 (35.6 - 42%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 0+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 284-336 (70.2 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
That's just insane. I prefer the DD Set, but seriously defensive kinds are great too! I think it is just such a versatile powerhouse deserving of S-rank.
Venusaur (Mega)
Fine.
A Rank
Clefable
Pls move to A+. It is such a versatile defensive and offensive Pokemon that requires little support, but in return provides immense support.
Excadrill
Fine.
Greninja
A+. Its mixture of Speed and sheer power and versatility is more than enough for A+. It can switch types at will with no drawbacks, it is very unpredictable and hard to take down if not packing a Defensive wall honestly.
Hippowdon
Fine.
Latias
Latias for A--Rank. It lacks so much power and just isn't cutting it in A-rank. It is too easily Pursuit-trapped and outclassed offensively by Latios.
Latios
Fine.
Mandibuzz
Ok here.
Rotom-W
Fine.
Scizor
Fine.
Tyranitar
Fine.
A- Rank
Chansey
Conkeldurr
Dragonite
Gengar
Gyarados
Mamoswine
Skarmory
Terrakion
Ok so Terrakion should move up to A. It is a very threatening Pokemon with great STABs. However it has trouble with choiced sets thanks to Aegislash and is just not what it once was. However it is a very nice wallbreaker that deserves to move up a tier.
All fine in A-, bar Terrakion!
TL;DR:
A+ ---> A
A+ ---> S
A+ ---> A
A+ ---> A
A+ ---> S
A -----> A+
A -----> A+
A ----> A-
A- ----> A
Thoughts?
Azumarill is completely deserving of A+.
First off, aegislash does not wall azumarill at all. In fact, the tank set is OHKO'd by a well timed knock off from the banded set, and takes around 70%~ from the AV sets. Sure, it can KS with no drawbacks. Right? WRONG IT COULD SET UP BELLY IN YOUR FACE. Honestly, while it's a pretty good switch-in, by no means is it safe, or handle azu. Calcs:
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 272-320 (83.9 - 98.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 180-214 (55.5 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Hey look my guesses were pretty close.
Not a lot of people run 252 hp aegislash either. Max sp. att is obligatory, but usually a lot goes into speed creep, some attack investment, and maybe even a full speedy set to surprise Bisharp, among other things.
Deo-d I agree, needs to go up.
I haven't used mega gyarados that much (trying to, from all the good things i've been hearing)
Mega Tyranitar definitely deserves S rank. That thing carried my ass through the suspect test ladder like a champ.
Literally, with 4 hp invesment, JUST 4, you live CONKELDURR MACH PUNCH.
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 216-256 (63.1 - 74.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Holy shit it's so good. My win conditions were often simply: weaken keldeo to about 65% for eq to kill. Weaken aegislash to 85% for eq to kill. Eliminate Thundurus.
And that's it! This is usually worst case scenario when I'm facing HO too, some thundurus don't even carry t-wave. It's amazing how well he cleans, and he certainly deserves S rank more than some pokemon like Mega Pinsir.
Manaphy drop I agree. It can't beat stall on its own and it's too slow to beat offense. I'd never use it over some pokemon like greninja or keldeo personally.
Mawile drop I don't really agree. It's still really good, but I don't have too much personal experience and I am unable to make a good argument. If somebody else would be so kind as to tell us why mega mawile is good (because it is (because I can't)) I'd appreciate it.
Clefable is great, versatile and good at everything it does. A+ easy.
Greninja is super fast, and while not the strongest, is strong enough to screw offense up. A+ for sure.
Latias I simply don't agree with.
She still does have offensive presence, but she has more bulk instead, leaving her with much better survivability. Roost is just so good on latias, and the buff lets her check so much more that her typing allows her to. Latias even has the option to go healing wish, which is much more helpful than latios is for offense. You could literally just "mini-sweep" once with Mega tyranitar, absorb the para and kill thundurus, then come back later, with no thundurus and no pokemon that you killed before! Working your way around priority t-wave is something that memento from latios cannot do.
In fact, latios, the one with weaker defense, is the one more vulnerable to pursuit here. EQ never even kills any pursuit user. If you feel like eq'ing for damage, aegislash can just shadow sneak, bisharp can sucker punch, and tyranitar could be scarfed (or just mega and set up all over your face)
Latias deserves to stay in A imo.
Terrakion is weak to all kinds of priority, but otherwise incredible. I love the LO set, definitely A material.
Everything else I can agree with.
Slight nitpick again:
Mega Tyranitar has 164 base attack, not 170. And yeah, life orb loom is just about the only priority that can kill you, ignoring Mega Lucario obviously.
Terrakion is already A in VR, it's just not changed here (mods are all dead I think.)Here are my thoughts on the current A-Rank Pokemon and what ranks they belong in:
A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame, but require some support or have some flaws that prevents them from doing this consistently. Supporting Pokemon in this rank may give opponents free turns or cannot create free turns easily themselves, but can still do their job most of the time
A+ Rank
Azumarill
Azumarill is a powerhouse! It is very great with two sets: Belly Drum and Choice Band. I've always found the AV Set to be lacking, but whatever. However, I feel as if Azumarill should be dropped to A. Now this may seem crazy, but Azumarill doesn't really live up to A+. I find that it is too easily walled by stuff such as Aegislash and Ferrothorn. It is also too slow to avoid being hit and if the target resists Aqua Jet, it isn't good. However Azumarill does have an amazing typing and ensures that not much can switchin without being hurt in the process. But despite its amazing power, I just am always let down by its mediocre Speed and bulk. I'd be ok with it in A+, but I feel as if A is the better home for it.
Bisharp
Bisharp is an interesting Pokemon. It is extremely powerful and is a great Pokemon in OU currently! I think it earns its spot in A+ Rank!
Deoxys-D
Well, I think Deoxys-D should be S-Rank. It can single handedly support its team tremendously and almost always gets up at least two hazards, while it can cripple with either Taunt / Thunder Wave. It is such an amazing Pokemon that I feel is totally deserving of S-Ranking!
Deoxys-S
Deoxys-S earns its spot in A+, its offensive set is very powerful and it is a nice Pokemon! I don't think it is broken and should move to S, but it certainly should not drop to A.
Garchomp / Garchomp (Mega)
I don't get why people are saying Garchomp-Mega should drop, in all honesty. It is a very powerful mixed wallbreaker that has a few flaws. I think it is perfectly fine where it is, along with Garchomp.
Gyarados (Mega)
Gyarados-Mega is most certainly S-Rank. It is one of the absolutely best Pokemon to use Dragon Dance, coupled with a great typing, amazing bulk, and Intimidate, along with Ice Fang and Earthquake to muscle past two good walls - Rotom-W and M-Venusar, it is just broken as hell. It also can switch types at will which is very threatening, albeit it is only a one-time thing. It also plays the mind factor, as Gyarados does not need to Mega Evolve to be good, so they won't know until you do. It can sweep through weakened teams and requires very little support, very deserving of S-Rank.
Heatran
Heatran is... Heatran. Nothing to say here.
Keldeo
Keldeo is fine where it is, not much too discuss.
Kyurem-B
Kyurem-B I would like to discuss, as it is seriously amazing. I think it deserves to stay where it is, but it is a very large threat.
Landorus-I
Fine.
Landorus-T
Fine.
Manaphy
I'm feeling as if Manaphy should drop down to A-Rank. Ok, so yeah, it isn't actually as bulky as it seems and its Speed is lacking for a sweeper. Tail Glow is cool and all, but it is too easily beaten by the likes of Thundurus and other Electric-types. Not to mention it can't beat dedicated Special Walls. But, in Manaphy's defense, it is not walled by Rotom-W by carrying Psychic, contrary o popular belief. Psychic 2HKOes 252/252+ which isn't even common, so this isn't really a good argument.
Mawile (Mega)
I feel like Mawile Mega is iffy, I'd like to see it in A-Rank simply because it is so slow and weak to too many common types, but it is very powerful and a great wallbreaker, so I think it is fine where it is, but I wouldn't mind a drop.
Scizor (Mega)
I made a whole long post about Scizor-M for S-Rank, but yeah it wasn't discussed much.
Talonflame
Meh.
Tyranitar (Mega)
Ok, so Tyranitar-Mega is one final change I'd see fit for A+, with M-Tyranitar moving up to S-Rank. It is so freaking bulky.
252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 86-101 (21.2 - 25%)
252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 114-136 (15.9 - 19%)
That's just a 5% difference, and with Specially Defensive sets:
252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 64-75 (15.8 - 18.5%) -- possible 6HKO
It's bulkier than fucking Blissey, with a large amount of power. Look at it survive a powerful Fighting-type move:
252 Atk Thundurus Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 340-400 (84.1 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And then a Scizor appears:
0+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 144-170 (35.6 - 42%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 0+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 284-336 (70.2 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
That's just insane. I prefer the DD Set, but seriously defensive kinds are great too! I think it is just such a versatile powerhouse deserving of S-rank.
Venusaur (Mega)
Fine.
A Rank
Clefable
Pls move to A+. It is such a versatile defensive and offensive Pokemon that requires little support, but in return provides immense support.
Excadrill
Fine.
Greninja
A+. Its mixture of Speed and sheer power and versatility is more than enough for A+. It can switch types at will with no drawbacks, it is very unpredictable and hard to take down if not packing a Defensive wall honestly.
Hippowdon
Fine.
Latias
Latias for A--Rank. It lacks so much power and just isn't cutting it in A-rank. It is too easily Pursuit-trapped and outclassed offensively by Latios.
Latios
Fine.
Mandibuzz
Ok here.
Rotom-W
Fine.
Scizor
Fine.
Tyranitar
Fine.
A- Rank
Chansey
Conkeldurr
Dragonite
Gengar
Gyarados
Mamoswine
Skarmory
Terrakion
Ok so Terrakion should move up to A. It is a very threatening Pokemon with great STABs. However it has trouble with choiced sets thanks to Aegislash and is just not what it once was. However it is a very nice wallbreaker that deserves to move up a tier.
All fine in A-, bar Terrakion!
TL;DR:
A+ ---> A
A+ ---> S
A+ ---> A
A+ ---> A
A+ ---> S
A -----> A+
A -----> A+
A ----> A-
A- ----> A
Thoughts?
Mega Gyarados: Absolutely. Honestly I think it's better than Mega Pinisir. It has ridiculous bulk and easily finds time to set up. Tons of good resistances, and it has the added factor of having different resistances when not mevoed so it can set up on a LOT of stuff. Mega Pinsir, on the other hand, is less bulky, has a whopping one immunity and one good resistance (grass and bug don't count lol,) is not as fast compared to +1 Mega Dos, and is 4x weak to rocks. What it has over Mega Dos is over twice as much power and strong priority, but in my experience the added bulk, ability to set up on a lot of stuff, additional speed after boosting, better bulk and typing, and not losing half your health if you're forced out make Mega Dos a lot more capable.
Mega TTar: See above, however I think Mega Dos is better.
Mawile: No, keep it in A+. +2 Sucker Punch OHKOs nearly everything that can check it and can make it a pain to revenge kill, and there's really no good switch ins for it.
Azumarill: 100/80/80 is pretty good bulk for something with such a great typing, I wouldn't call it mediocre. Walled by Ferrothorn? No, super power. Walled by Aegislash? No, Knock Off. At any rate, getting walled by X is not a reason to drop something IMO unless it's walled by tons of stuff, which Azumarill is not. Keep it in A+
Greninja: Maybe it's because I don't make offensive teams that much, but I have never once thought "oh fuck, how am I going to deal with Greninja." "hard to take down" what? Whenever it fails to OHKO something (and while it hits hard, it comes short of KOing a LOT of stuff if it doesn't have a SE move) it's probably going to get KOed in return. Yeah it can check a lot of stuff, but I really don't feel A+ is a fit for it.
Mega Garchomp: People are wanting it to drop because, while it's a powerful wall breaker, it NEEDS sand support to function as a wall breaker. No other wall breakers really need this sort of support.
lolno. Mega T-Tar is crazy good.
Well, tyranitar does have its uses, certainly. It definitely works as a great pursuit trapper to help mega like char-y plow through without the presence of Lat@s. But yeah, mega tyranitar is definitely crazy good.
Also, that little part about greninja? Omg it's such a pain in the neck. Extrasensory kills Keldeo, Ice beam/dark Pulse kills lati@s, Hydro Pump deals with Hippowdon or whatever your bulky ground is, it just destroys the common archtypes so easily and has the great speed to back it up. This thing honestly forces thundurus to waste its priority t-wave on the ninja, letting other sweepers get the opportunity to actually do something without being cockblocked by priority t-waves everywhere. Ninja definitely deserves A+
Also, here's ninja dealing with the things it needs to:
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Extrasensory vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 315-374 (97.5 - 115.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 260-307 (86 - 101.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 304-359 (100.6 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 569-671 (135.4 - 159.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I don't need to calc landorus (-T) lol
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 266-316 (98.1 - 116.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 393-463 (131 - 154.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
So yeah. After some chip damage, even the bulkiest of hyper offense pokemon (stuff like latias) is basically getting OHKO'd.
These guys are all standard members of HO teams, and greninja just takes gigantic dumps all over them. Keep in mind that, in conjunction with rocks, or sand storm (provided how popular and good hippowdon and mega tyranitar are), you easily OHKO everything you want to in the list above.
This guy's speed and coverage is too much for HO to handle well, it definitely deserves A+
Also, the set I run is (hydro pump/ice beam/extrasensory/grass knot) plenty of things out there to hit aegislash, that's the only thing you really miss out on with dark pulse. Mega Gyarados sets up all over it too, so that's cool.
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