Other The OU Theorymon Project (CLOSED)

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Chou Toshio

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Dry Skin Escavalier was an f'ing brilliant theorymon last gen, and from Alex's description, I guess it's true that it's still very cool this one (even with drizzle severely nerfed). Probably worth a discussion-- though water-types in general are not that intimidating, and Escavalier does have the issue of losing to Rotom-W and only having Return to hit Keldeo (v. Keldeo's STAB Secret Sword). Still, it does completely shut down manapy and Azum, which is cool...

Hey guys, remember when Drill Run was an Esca Theorymon last gen, and then GF made it real? lol
 
Oh such good theorymons that turn, so bad we already got a poison elec type, that weezing was more effective than eelektross :(, poison heal goodra is also a huge boon and become a pain to deal with, (i always deal it by burning it and accumulating residual damage lol). Magic Guard Frolass, why not, but it's finally worse than others that turn; last but not least, escavalier, it's a very unique idea which give it e very good niche in the meta.
I will vote for Goodra as i don't want it will be overshadowed by Escavalier, but those two are really good. (three if you count weezing which arrive too late)
 
http://www.smogon.com/smog/issue11/retyping :(

Weezing – Poison / Electric



Poison / Electric

Big Smogon makes life for Fighting-types in UU difficult, but its inability to seriously threaten the big boys of OU, as well as an inability to ward off some of the more defensive Pokémon, gives Weezing a pretty raw deal.

Electric typing does a few things for Weezing, both offensively and defensively. Defensively there is no cost to the Electric-typing, as Weezing possesses the Levitate ability. The additional resistances to Electric, Steel, and Flying help Weezing address a variety of threats, from Zapdos and Rotom-A, to being nearly foolproof against Scizor and Jirachi lacking Psychic or Zen Headbutt. Offensively speaking, Weezing is more capable of addressing bulky Waters with STAB Thunderbolt, and with Weezing's extensive coverage and support movepool it can be tailored to take on most of the threats in OU. While it's best to avoid speculating about new moves, Electric-types all have access to Thunder Wave, which, when added to Will-O-Wisp, gives Weezing quite a few options to cripple the opposition.

Poison/Electric-typed Weezing would also have a unique place on Rain Dance teams. With resistance to Fighting, Grass, and Electric and an immunity to Ground, Weezing would be a near-perfect pivot for Kabutops and Omastar.

Weezing @ Leftovers / Black Sludge
Levitate
200 HP / 216 Def / 40 SpD / 52 Spe
Bold
- Will-O-Wisp
- Thunderbolt
- Pain Split
- Explosion / Flamethrower / Hidden Power Ground

With its new Steel resistance, Fire Blast isn't as necessary as it used to be, as Weezing can now comfortably wall and burn most of the Steels in OU. Now backed by STAB, Thunderbolt is a decent option for neutral coverage and easily dispatches Gyarados and Skarmory. Pain Split is a bit unreliable for recovery, but it's better than nothing and especially effective against Blissey and Vaporeon. Explosion provides a good breaking move, but can be replaced by Flamethrower for a more immediate threat to Steels, or Hidden Power Ground if you're worried specifically about Heatran, who takes great advantage of Will-O-Wisp.
 
VOTING IS NOW CLOSED

The tally is-

Poison Heal Goodra: 18 Votes

Magic Guard Frosslass: 11 Votes

Poison/Electric Weezing: 5

Dry Skin Escavalier: 29 Votes

the winner of this theorymon is...

Dry Skin Escavalier!!! Have fun discussing
 
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Well i start, Escavalier: good bulk (both physical and special), really good attack, really bad speed, and very good double type. What that new ability will give to it ? First a very usefull water immunity + a possibillity to recover some hp. Why that could increase its viability ?Before it was overshadowed by some other bug/steel type as forrestress ( which has a better bulk and rapidspin+SR/spikes) and scizor (which has better offensive role with technician roost and a better speed, whithout to mention the mega form). Now Escavalier is able to handle mostly the same threats that those two can but + many anoying water type threats, such as keldeo, kingdra, manaphy, ... I think it is something that the meta really need since pokemon like jellicent are too much strugle by that offensive meta, and that is a niche that forretress and scizor cant fill.

A set that come to mind is obviously a AV set :
Escavalier @ Assault Vest
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- X-Scissor
- Iron Head
- Knock Off
- Pursuit / Aerial Ace

That allow it to take some hit in the special side such as a Greninja Dark Pulse.

Edit: i didn't see, but it has access to megahorn too.
 
With Dry Skin escavalier, I feel that it could be a nice rain user, as well, it could be used to switch into attacks like surf and hydro pump that Heatran and the Mega Zards hate.
 
Dry Skin Escavalier is pretty nifty, but with Rain being less prominent than last generation (and Water being less common as an offensive typing,) it's not quite as useful as it was as a Gen V Theorymon. Useful still, though.

The first thing I thought of was Escavalier being a possible answer to many threats that Rain Teams commonly carry, but Kabutops is an immediate threat that Escavalier isn't particularly good at handling. While Kabutops doesn't want to switch in (unless that player's feeling lucky and wants to bank on Megahorn missing,) it's easily able to deal upwards of 60% to Escavalier with Stone Edge, making staying in with prior damage risky (especially on Assault Vest sets. CB Esca fares better by virtue of being able to OHKO without SR.) On the other hand, the other premier user of Swift Swim, Kingdra, can barely scratch Dry Skin Assault Vest Escavalier, while it can easily retaliate. Keldeo is checked by CB Esca if it isn't locked into its weaker moves.

A lot of what I'm seeing actually suggests that a CB set allows Esca to do a lot better than AV sets do. While more prediction is obviously a requirement, the increase in power is very respectable. Escavalier's typing either leaves it faring well against special attackers with its new ability anyway (Kingdra, LAti@s, Thundurus w/o HP Fire...) or really badly regardless (Char-Y.) AV sets definitely have merit in dealing with neutral special attacks better, though (as well as not getting locked into anything.)
 

ethan06

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The first thing that comes to mind here is that having a Dry Skin/Water Absorb Pokémon in OU immediately makes Scald a less spammable move. The Pokémon that are affected by this the most are, of course, Bulky Waters, but more specifically, Pokémon like Specs Keldeo and Suicune are disadvantaged the most because Esca's very presence on the other side of the field makes them far harder, or even impossible, to use. That said, I'm not sure that Dry Skin Escavalier will be that metagame-defining; after having a look at the VR thread, I can count seven Water-type Pokémon in A- and above (counting Gyarados and it's mega as separate Pokémon). Here's a list so you don't have to check as well:

Azumarill
Greninja
Gyarados
M-Gyarados
Keldeo
Manaphy
Rotom-W

252+ Atk Escavalier Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 178-210 (44 - 51.9%) -- 12.5% chance to 2HKO
Against Azumarill, Escavalier walls most of it's moves, but can't really hit it back. Azumarill is able to Belly Drum up in Esca's face while it can't do more that about 50% back, meaning that it can't kill Azu after the Sitrus Berry regen. After that,
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Escavalier: 342-402 (99.4 - 116.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
In short, it's setup bait. Of course, Azu is left about about 25% of it's health, meaning that it's easy enough to take out, but it's still a terrible check to BellyJet.

Escavalier is a hard counter to Greninja, however, if it doesn't run Hidden Power [Fire]. The standard set fails to 3HKO with Dark Pulse, after which Esca can simply Megahorn it to death. Even if it picks a move that makes it neutral to Megahorn, it still OHKOs. It can U-Turn out, and Megahorn is a risky move when couple with Dark Pulse's 20% chance to flinch, but that's not something a Greninja user can rely on. Escavalier could do this before it received Dry Skin, however, as even without it Hydro Pump is still a 3HKO. The new ability just makes it easier to come in. One has to scout for Hidden Power, though.

Gyarados is a tricky one: an un-mega evolved MGyarados walls all of Esca's moves all day, as Knock Off doesn't remove it's item and it resists or is immune to everything else Esca commonly carries. This means that it can simply use Escavalier as setup bait, and if it decides to stay in:
+2 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Escavalier: 313-370 (90.9 - 107.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
If it's not a mega, however, Gyarados can boost up on it but has to take repeated Knock Off punishment, meaning that non-RestTalk variants lose:
(assuming Esca switched in on Gyarados)
252+ Atk Escavalier Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 146-172 (43.9 - 51.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Escavalier Knock Off vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 97-115 (29.2 - 34.6%) -- 7% chance to 3HKO

Keldeo is another difficult one to deal with if you're facing a clever player. The only move it can use to hurt Escavalier is Secret Sword, and while it does sting (252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Escavalier: 199-235 (57.8 - 68.3%)), Esca takes little from it's other moves, and discourages it from spamming it's Water moves mindlessly, making it easier to set up in Keldeo's face with unlikely Pokémon such as SubTox Aegislash and SD Talonflame. Escavalier has a lot of influence against Keldeo, as the presence of Dry Skin causes all sorts of interesting mindgames. This one is still dicey, though.

Manaphy is hard walled. Not much to say here, so have some more calcs:
+6 252 SpA Manaphy Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 104-123 (30.2 - 35.7%) -- 36.6% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Escavalier Megahorn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 220-261 (64.5 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Again, if Escavalier becomes a major contender it may begin to run Hidden Power [Fire].

Rotom is not countered by Escavalier, at all. While it can switch in on Hydro Pump, washing machine outspeeds and can Volt Switch away or just burn it, and then Volt Switch away.

----
So out of seven Water-types in A- and above, it hard-counters Manaphy and Greninja, but performs poorly against the other five. That said, however, on top of Manaphy and Greninja it also acts as a great answer to Tyranitar, Bisharp (with Drill Run), MVenusaur, Suicune, Lati@s that lack HP [Fire] and Kyu-B, among others. On the flipside, it's either wrecked or setup on by all of S-rank (Aegislash can simply King's Shield against anything it carries and force it out, with minimal repercussions should it switch immediately), and the prevalence of Heatran, Talonflame and the Charizard bros alone make it necessary to play conservatively with Esca. All in all, I'm not convinced that an immunity to Water-type attacks is enough to earn it a place in top-tier OU, but, to use the viability rankings, I would place it at around B.
 
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Escavalier is a hard counter to Greninja, however. The standard set fails to 3HKO with Dark Pulse, after which Esca can simply Megahorn it to death. Even if it picks a move that makes it neutral to Megahorn, it still OHKOs. It can U-Turn out, and Megahorn is a risky move when couple with Dark Pulse's 20% chance to flinch, but that's not something a Greninja user can rely on. Escavalier could do this before it received Dry Skin, however, as even without it Hydro Pump is still a 3HKO. The new ability just makes it easier to come in.
Surely Escavalier is a check with some Greninja having Hp fire, and Dry skin further increasing its fire weakness,

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Dry Skin Escavalier: 348-411 (101.1 - 119.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO.
 
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ethan06

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Surely Escavalier is a check with some Greninja having Hp fire, and Dry skin further increasing its fire weakness,

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Dry Skin Escavalier: 348-411 (101.1 - 119.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO.
It may become more of a thing, for sure; perhaps Hidden Power [Fire] will rise in popularity in general, to keep Esca from walking all over every Bulky Water in the format?
 
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