OU Kingdra

[Swamp Link]

Um, that's not actually how math works. Scald does X percent of damage + a 30% chance of an extra 12.5% per turn. Surf does 9X/8 percent damage. So let's call the burn damage of just one turn an average of 3.75% extra (although really the damage continues for every turn that they're burned). So on average, Scald does X+3.75 and Surf does 9X/8. Whether or not Surf is stronger on average for one turn depends on if Scald does more or less than 30%.

 

[Ash Borer]

no youre never going to sweep a team with unboosted Kingdra, no matter how worn down and weak they, Agility is almost a waste of a moveslot without copious support.

Hp fire breaks through ferrothorn, at least it does something consistent

 

[Selflessly]

The current Rain Sweeper set is missing 2 EVs, which probably should allocate to Atk to still create a whole number divisible by 4.

 

[trc]

Keeping CritDra, still does wonders against slow teams. I never liked Agility anyway, you're weak, and most offensive teams carry Thundurus which will TWave you anyway, making Agility worthless. Another reason why HP Fire wasn't on the original set was because Ferrothorn wasn't that common at the time, but now every uses it for Azumarill and a bunch of other Pokemon, Masterclass essentially reinstated its popularity. I'll add the Hidden Powers in, but Agility in Moves, and change a bunch of other stuff to reflect these changes.

 

[Yogi Bear.]

What if Modest CritDra had Speed Boost support from a Passer like Scrolipede or Ninjask? That would patch up the Speed problem and allow you to run whatever Hidden Power you wanted.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

What if Modest CritDra had Speed Boost support from a Passer like Scrolipede or Ninjask? That would patch up the Speed problem and allow you to run whatever Hidden Power you wanted.

This applies to pretty much any slow but powerful Pokemon, and Kingdra doesn't particularly have many coverage problems regarding list coverage outside of Hidden Power Fire.

 

[Yogi Bear.]

This applies to pretty much any slow but powerful Pokemon, and Kingdra doesn't particularly have many coverage problems regarding list coverage outside of Hidden Power Fire.

True, but it means the whole Agility issue is resolved by Team Support (I figured giving it an explicit mention might help).

 

[AccidentalGreed]

TRC.

Even though you removed Agility from the Critdra set, a majority of your set details and usage tips still assume Kingdra is still using it. A quick fix shouldn't hurt!

 

[trc]

Ok, after some discussion on IRC I'm going to add in a dedicated Choice Specs set, and require 1 qc check + 2 gp checks for that section.

 

[Hibiki]

You're missing the abilities in the Swift Swim sets.

 

[Ash Borer]

Sleep Talk isn't there for "stray spores", if a sleep move is coming you probably know it. The point is that Kingdra is really one of the few pokemon that can forfeit a moveslot for Sleep Talk as it gets really everything it needs with its first three moves. n the case that a sleep user gets momentum against your team and wants to put something to sleep then Kingdra can come in on that predicted sleep move, and instead of having one of your teammates basically out for the matcch, it can still do work

Imagine this ~decently plausible~ scenario You have your kabutops out and Breloom comes in to check it, obviously youre forced out but you have a LAtios in the back, the Breloom user sees that and sees you have no grass type so its completely free to click spore on the incoming Latios. Even if you stay in with tops Breloom resits your dual STAB so its not a huge issue, but it is a huge issue if Latios comes in on Mach Punch, so its a really safe play to hit Spore. So you see this and switch in Kingdra, then pivot to Latios and threaten out Breloom. Then later in the match as opposed to having a useless sleeping Latios or KAbutops Kingdra an come in and Sleep Talk, probably getting a kill becuase all of its moves are so powerful in the rain.

you can basically copy paste the team options from rain sweeper as they ought to be on very similar teams.

But yeah the set looks fine, finish this up and ill approve

 

[alexwolf]

Scald >>> Surf on the Specs set, the burn can really cripple some of Kingdra's checks and counters, such as Azumarill, Ferrothorn, and Mega Venusaur.

 

[Selflessly]

Rain Wallbreaker EVs end up in 520 total EVS, might need to tone down the amount in HP i would presume since you want to outspeed Latios

 

[trc]

Scald >>> Surf on the Specs set, the burn can really cripple some of Kingdra's checks and counters, such as Azumarill, Ferrothorn, and Mega Venusaur.

Yeah definitely, the burning is really helpful to decrease the longevity of these things which otherwise wall you. Eventually after switching in several times, they will be at risk of a 2HKO.

 

[Tesung]

Gonna strongly disagree with scald>surf! there have been so many teams when I use specs kindgra that I wanna sweep late game without risking a miss! and the power is necessary to avoid using hydro pump. I guess I don't know if it misses out on any specific koes, but surf is very useful. Against azu I would rather use hydro pump to 2hko easily or switch

 

[trc]

Gonna strongly disagree with scald>surf! there have been so many teams when I use specs kindgra that I wanna sweep late game without risking a miss! and the power is necessary to avoid using hydro pump. I guess I don't know if it misses out on any specific koes, but surf is very useful. Against azu I would rather use hydro pump to 2hko easily or switch

To be honest, it isn't that much less powerful, and being able to burn Ferrothorn is great. I mean, I can justify changing it back if you provide me with calcs (reasonable, not like "Scald doesn't 2HKO X Mon without Stealth Rock!") that prove that is a better alternative.

 

[TFL]

I found that Surf has a good chance to OHKO Garchomp and score the 2HKO on Keldeo. And, unlike Scald, it grabs the guaranteed 2HKO on Latios, after Stealth Rock Damage. I feel that it's a better option than Sleep Talk.

Nitpick: I think 'Rain Cleaner' more accurately describes Specs Kingdra's role.

 

[Selflessly]

Rain Wallbreaker should also run 28 HP evs otherwise its 512 total evs

 

[EndingCredits]

I don't really see the point of HP Poison on the Critdra Set since:

252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Hidden Power Poison vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill on a critical hit: 315-372 (77.9 - 92%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

And Kingdra really needs to KO Azumarill so you're reliant on prior damage. Granted, there's not many good options for that final moveslot anyway.

 

[Imanalt]

um can i just ask why whimsicott is even being mentioned when discussing hidden power poison? its not exactly relevant......

 

[Unowninator]

um can i just ask why whimsicott is even being mentioned when discussing hidden power poison? its not exactly relevant......

Quadruple weakness.

 

[EnerG218]

Quadruple weakness.

OUCH ALT GETTING SHUT DOWN OOO

seriously though, whimsicott's usage in OU is 1.49630%

 

[Molk]

Quadruple weakness.

hitting something for 4x se damage doesn't really matter when the pokemon in question it's supposed to be hitting is completely irrelevant in the OU enviornment.

14:14 TIBot Whimsicott - #104 in OU | Usage: 0.86741% | Raw count: 93,875 | Weight: 0.00740612753663

This is the 1760 usage but that's the usage that's being used for tiering now regardless so it should be relevant for this discussion.

Whimsicott really isn't common at all on the ladder, especially on the upper ladder, and i'm pretty sure it's gotten literallty 0 usage in tournament play (someone can prove me wrong if it has and was actually effective). Not to mention that honestly even when you do see whimsicott it's usually pretty ineffective in the OU tier, at least from my experience.

(Honestly i'm kinda doubtful hp poison deserves a slash on critdra at all over hp grass or electric but w/e, hitting random emp might seem just as bad as whimsicott but at least empoleon can defog, check greninja, and resist azumarill's stab combo, whimsicott just sucks... OHKOing gyarados without risking a miss is nice too)

 

[g]

Also Kingdra learns Flash Cannon if you REALLY want to hit Whimsicott but that is bad anyway v.v

 

[Ash Borer]

You can use the last slot to hit either Ferrothorn or Azumarill, hitting Whimsicott is a tiny bonus that is mentioned because its two words and its viable for analysis. Why the hell would you use flash cannon when it hits nothing relevant? O_O

Also yeah Critdra has a 30% chance to kill max hp Azu, which few are because BD needs speed and even CB appreciates speed, but thats way fucking better than 0%. Hp poison was used over hp electric because whimsicott has higher usage than emp at any ranking and has the niche of prankster encore / stun spore abuse and shit.

There's no other relevant water type hit harder with a hidden power than Draco Meteor after that so why bother with hp grass or electric?