Ladder Balanced Hackmons

How do you deal with Protean mm2x? Doesn't look like you can cover it well.
Barely anything can cover MM2X because there are too many different sets out there. The only way to beat it is to scout it through Imposter and using your team members to wall it.

It's worth noting that Darm-Z can switch in against MM2X without Knock Off or Diamond Storm and can abuse Nuzzle to cripple it badly. This also allows Imposter to be in control against it since it will always outspeed thanks to paralysis.
 
Unrelated, but items have been hackable for a while now. I even battled a random passerby's Mega Latias recently. So, has anyone heard of people hacking in items Gen VI has been missing so far? Specifically gems, Soul Dew, mail, and the missing berries? I did a quick search and nobody has mentioned acquiring any of these except for the Normal Gem.

Edit for clarity: In BH, and also pure Hacks, everything that is possible is also possible in-game via hacking. Or supposed to be, anyway. We don't have a Poke Gen or equivalent for X/Y, so we're going by Gen V precedents for behavior on a number of things, such as Arceus' form behavior and Eviolite working while transformed.

In BH, we currently have access to Soul Dew, mail, all gems, all berries, and possibly a few others I'm forgetting. None of these have been found in-game except the Normal Gem. People have figured out how to hack items into game, hence why we now have access to Mega-Lati@s, but I've yet to hear reports of the currently MIA items being hacked in. If it's impossible to obtain them via hacking or legit in-game, then we can't use them in Gen VI BH, hence why I asked.

I bring this up for tier accuracy more than anything else since most of those items are rarely used.
 
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Meanwhile, it's been some time since I've thrown a random odd set that I've come up with that works. This one is pretty effective, though unfortunately I had to drop it from my team due to synergy reasons. But on the bright side, that means you get it now instead of much later after I've smacked people around with it.

Ho-Oh @ Sitrus Berry or other consumable item
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Careful Nature or Impish
IVs: 30 HP
- Acrobatics
- Sacred Fire
- Coil
- Roost

The set plays like a fairly typical Unaware sweeper. Set-up alongside your opponent and, once they've realized the error of their ways of trying to boost to +6 in everything, start pwning them. Ho-Oh has naturally high special bulk that lets it handle stuff like Contrary Ytwo, so Coil is the boosting move of choice to both increase its attack power and physical defense. Though Shift Gear and Sword's Dance are options if you'd prefer them.

Normally, Ho-Oh prefers Brave Bird and Flare Blitz. However, on a more defensive Pokemon, these are bad for obvious reasons. So, for Fire, Sacred Fire is chosen as it has good power and a high burn chance that threatens both Shedinja and physical attackers. Meanwhile, Acrobatics might seem like an odd choice. And indeed, using it may cause your opponent to think you're incompetent. But it's actually pretty darn effective since, once the Sitrus Berry is eaten or knocked off, you have a base 110 power STAB with no recoil and high PP. Hilariously, this lets Ho-Oh hit opposing Eviolite Imposters harder than they can hit back, which makes the set Imposter resistant.

If you don't want dual-STAB, I'd recommend opting for Earthquake. Mind, changing out Acrobatics means Imposters become much harder to deal with and removing Sacred Fire drops your Sheddy counter + utility in burning stuff. You can drop Roost to have a surefire way to beat Imposters, provided you're both at high HP and they don't crit, but Ho-Oh will be rather damaged after such an encounter.

While other consumable items could be considered, such as Kee Berry, Lum Berry, Red Card, Weakness Policy, or something else, I found myself preferring the Sitrus Berry as it allowed Ho-Oh to take Gyarados' Crab Hammer or Kyu-B's Extreme Speed and recover enough HP to start setting up in their face. It also lets Ho-Oh switch into rocks more easily if necessary.
 

E4 Flint

-inactive in BH due corrupt leader-
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
So how about these guys...
http://serebii.net/attackdex-xy/thousandwaves.shtml
http://serebii.net/attackdex-xy/thousandarrows.shtml
http://serebii.net/attackdex-xy/holdhands.shtml

Thousand Arrows seems like such a ridic move, I wouldn't be surprised to see it on like every physical mon especially Cube. See ya Levitran and Aegi in one hit? Thousand waves is kinda cool too, as an alternative to infest maybe, will have to see if it does damage.

oh and we can hold hands... alternative to splash I guess..

I'm super excited for these two new moves. Ground moves are such a premium already and now the only drawback they have is removed at the cost of a mere 10 bp. You could seriously just run them both on groudon to play mind games especially witha ph. I'm thinking

Coil/Spore/Thousand Arrows/Thousand Waves


Note: I KNOW this will be limited obviously but it could still sort of work, that's testament to how cool these new moves are to what is currently in the meta.
 
If Groudon becomes a thing again because of these moves, maybe it'll be time to resurrect Leafeon.

Also, Fairy Gem confirmed to be hackable. AFAIK the other gems are still MIA.



Oh, the moveset there is illegal sans Hyperspace Hole.
 

E4 Flint

-inactive in BH due corrupt leader-
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Its that time of the month again Flint...



All hail new god Nike.
LOL i didn't see this post wasn't online for a while.
It is with great regret that I've stopped laddering BH since around two weeks ago until the beginning of June.
Nike got up there after I stopped.
Coincidence? ;) :P

But congrats to Nike lel

Hopefully we'll see Steam Eruption in soon. The only doubt I assume must be the burn rate. I have seen rumored figures of 40% burn with 110/95 bp/acc
 
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40% burn rate would make it slightly nicer than 50% to all those poor FF mons. :P

Edit: lol @ the spelling of "Those Pokémon are knocked down to the grounssd." (on serebii)
 
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Hopefully we'll see Steam Eruption in soon. The only doubt I assume must be the burn rate. I have seen rumored figures of 40% burn with 110/95 bp/acc
Well Serebii says 30% and I really hope it's not even more obnoxious than Scald (though that 5 base PP will probably hurt its usage for defensive mons). Thousand Arrows seems ridiculous though. Levitate will probably become a completely irrelevant ability in BH once that is in (and being a Flying type much less of a boon).
 
Well, Leafeon came to light towards the end of last gen when I was dicking around with possible prankodon counters. It resisted the common Boltquake coverage and had the bulk to survive a +6 EQ from Groudon while at full HP with a neutrally defensive nature, something Virizion, the much more common Grass-type of the generation, couldn't do. According to the analysis I never finished writing...

+6 252+ Atk Groudon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Leafeon: 261-308 (78.14 - 92.21%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Meanwhile, Leafeon could OHKO back with either a Hustle, Technician, or Skill Link set. (The Coil + Hustle set I came up with could also beat Killerchops, which says something about Leafeon's physical bulk).

Of course, Leafeon might not be the best now and it may not have even been the best then. 65/130/65 bulk is pretty good physically, but meh specially. 110 Attack and 95 speed isn't too shabby though. Shaymin does have 100 all across the board, so is more versatile, and I think the HP might make up for the defense, which means it might out-class Leafeon. There's also Celebi, who's in the same boat as Shaymin but has the advantage and curse of a secondary Psychic-typing. Chestnaught has 88/122/75 bulk with 107 Attack and 64 Speed, so it's rather similar to Leafeon except it also has a Fighting type, which may or may not be a good thing, and it's well below common speed tiers. Gourgeist-Super has 88/122/75 with 100 Attack and 54 speed, so its in a similar boat as Chestnaught except Ghost instead of Fighting.

So, just glancing at their stats and typings, it looks like they all have their similar niches. Though it remains to be seen if they become necessary. If Thousand Arrows winds up only being a coverage move for Xerneas or Kyurem, then there probably won't be much reason to bring them back. But if Groudon makes a big come back or something similar, then they could have their place in the meta. (And I'll be honest: I'd love for there to be a shake-up in the meta.)

Also, worth noting that Skymin is an already useful Flying-type who so happens to resist Ground. Though 100/75/75 defenses aren't the best for tanking hits, but with its speed and power, it can probably provide enough of a threat to a Ground type to not need to take the hit.
 
Groudon's still going to be incredibly sad about his lack of strong priority, and I'm more worried that this will just make Xerneas and Kyurem-B stronger. To add injury to the insult of stealing this nifty move, KyuB is probably singlehandedly going to prevent a major resurgence of Ground type sweepers:
252+ Atk Icicle Plate Refrigerate Kyurem-B Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Groudon: 342-404 (84.6 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

Granted, having STAB on an (slightly weaker) EQ that hits flyers can't be overlooked and I'd expect to see it. Ground types will just have to tread carefully until KyuB is down (true for a lot of mons and they still do work).

As for Grass types walling TArrows, Flying attacks pair very well with TArrows, hitting both Bug and Grass (the only remaining resists) SE and there is no immunity/reduction ability for it like with Fire (also more accurate than traditional Stone Edge coverage). Virizion and Chesnaught will probably not be good counters for this reason.
 
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The land shark will take over what Groudon left in Gen V BH, inflicting fear into all with it's perfect coverage with Fire or Flying attacks alongside Thousand Arrows. Nothing except Kyurem-B will be able to as much as frighten it as it's vicious rampage ensues.
 

Pikachuun

the entire waruda machine
No items! Ninetales only! Final Balanced Hackmons!

...sorry, couldn't resist.

More seriously, replace Splash with Play Nice. It fits the theme of the set better IMO. :p
I believe the phrase you're looking for is "No items. Delphox only. Frontier Destination."
Also Play nice actually does something so it's terrible.
 
Thousand Waves and Thousand Arrows are both ban worthy. Thousand Arrows Kyu-B barely has any legit counters without the right moveset and Thousand Waves doesn't even require explanation, it's just trap and kill. To be honest, Thousand Arrows only makes Thousand Waves more effective, everyone will be less reliant on flyers to combat ground attacks.
 

MAMP

MAMP!
Thousand Waves and Thousand Arrows are both ban worthy. Thousand Arrows Kyu-B barely has any legit counters without the right moveset and Thousand Waves doesn't even require explanation, it's just trap and kill. To be honest, Thousand Arrows only makes Thousand Waves more effective, everyone will be less reliant on flyers to combat ground attacks.
I think we should wait until they are actually released and we have an opportunity to test them before even talking about bans.
 
I think we should wait until they are actually released and we have an opportunity to test them before even talking about bans.
Since everyone is theorymonning about what mons will abuse it, I think it's fine to speculate about bans simply by examining their move descriptions.
Thousand Arrows definitely works as it says it does and is obviously ban-worthy, any BH player can see that. Thousand Waves could work like Infestation or Spider Web, the former allows it to kill Shedinja. Both versions are ban worthy regardless.
 

E4 Flint

-inactive in BH due corrupt leader-
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Since everyone is theorymonning about what mons will abuse it, I think it's fine to speculate about bans simply by examining their move descriptions.
Thousand Arrows definitely works as it says it does and is obviously ban-worthy, any BH player can see that. Thousand Waves could work like Infestation or Spider Web, the former allows it to kill Shedinja. Both versions are ban worthy regardless.
You're like the only one I know who would theoryban lel. Personally I think they're gonna add something new and cool to the meta which let's face it, it sorely needs. I personally disagree with your statement anyway, I doubt that either one would be banned. Let's take a look at the only moves that are banned already in BH - Sheer Cold, Fissure et al. These moves are nowhere near that level of brokenness and I'm pretty excited to see what new level of play they'll introduce. I'm even more excited with the possibility of new Zygarde forms but that's a different topic.

Besides we all remember how you reacted when the BST's of the Mewtwo M's were released and I told you it'd be fine, give it a while. :P Ditto here. The only problem I see with these moves so far is *gasp we might have to change our current teams just a bit which isn't so bad.

Btw inb4 prankassistarrows #3op4u
 
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Once again, I fail to be surprised by Adrian Marin.

Thousand Waves says nothing about trapping and Thousand Arrows says nothing about hitting flying Pokemon. Most likely Thousand Waves just prevents the 'run' command and Thousand Arrows just hits Levitran. Only one of those sounds particularly exciting because now you don't have to choose between hitting Levitran or Forfeitslash.
 

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