-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Move Future Sight & Doom Desire
- Thread starter JayHankEdLyon
- Start date
- Status
Unless they've changed the mechanics since Gen V, Doom Desire's utility is really rather limited. In Gen V, I ran a CM+Doom Desire Jirachi for a while but gave it up once I realized that, if Jirachi faints or switches out, any SpA raises your Pokemon had are wiped out.
See:
Skip to 9:20 for the breakdown and calcs.
See:
Skip to 9:20 for the breakdown and calcs.
Future sight, due to the better distribution and wider range of neutral coverage, is far more potent. The idea is that future sight is not a stand alone attack, but you can double pressure a typing and force scenarios where there is no CORRECT choice. Pairing a future sight user with scizor is highly effective because short of going to a steel type (Not named aegislash), they'll be taking super effective going to psychic's resists (psychic, dark). Scizor can run super power to hit a heatran switch which is, at that point, insanely predictable, or a TTar switch if they have no better choice...
Doom desire jirachi has the benefit of basically doing this by itself. Steel has resists in steel, fire, water, and electric. Jirachi can carry water pulse, thunder bolt, doom desire and wish to hit half for SE and the other for neutral. Of course, getting a ground type to assist isn't that hard... M-venu could carry EQ and Giga drain for perfect coverage on those four.
Doom desire jirachi has the benefit of basically doing this by itself. Steel has resists in steel, fire, water, and electric. Jirachi can carry water pulse, thunder bolt, doom desire and wish to hit half for SE and the other for neutral. Of course, getting a ground type to assist isn't that hard... M-venu could carry EQ and Giga drain for perfect coverage on those four.
T-Bolt raises a good question. On Showdown, Jirachi sometimes takes LO recoil from Doom Desire after switching out and coming back and using a non-attacking move. I haven't been able to pinpoint a pattern as to how many turns later Jirachi takes LO recoil, since it seems to happen at random.
On the topic of Doom Desire and Future Sight, these moves are amazing with Life Orb and the use of a shuffler partner such has Hippowdon and Skarmory. This prevents the opponent from being able to choose what teammate takes the powerful hit. It's always fun to drag something like Mega Venusaur in on a Future Sight, and most pokemon that resist the attack would take significant damage.
On the topic of Doom Desire and Future Sight, these moves are amazing with Life Orb and the use of a shuffler partner such has Hippowdon and Skarmory. This prevents the opponent from being able to choose what teammate takes the powerful hit. It's always fun to drag something like Mega Venusaur in on a Future Sight, and most pokemon that resist the attack would take significant damage.
I guess on top of what I posted earlier, I thought I'd make mention that the introduction of Fairy typing - a typing people often select for when making a team as it has great neutral coverage and easily definsible weaknesses - has definitely made Doom Desire a lot more viable this gen. It is a gimmick, but it's not unworkable - anything that can KO the likes of Mega-Pinsir without breaking a sweat is always going to be pretty significant.
That is actually a very interesting point, as it would almost be guaranteed that the switch in would be someone they didn't want because they didn't switch to them in the first place.
Interestingly enough, Sigilyph is the only one with access to Future Sight and Whirlwind. Meaning you use the move, and then you Whirlwind out whoever they send in place to take it. And what's double cruel? Sigilyph has Tinted Lens. Meaning unless the switch in is a Dark type or a 4x resist, the opponent is taking 100% of the damage. With a decent 103 SpA this could cause problems, as you also have decent 97 Spd and access to Wonder Guard, Cosmic Power and Roost. And not that this isn't terribly gimmicky but it also has Miracle Eye, which lets Dark types be hit by Psychic moves. So if they have a Dark type on their side, the switch is so easily predicted, you hit them with Miracle Eye and they still get hit. That's just evil.
Sigilyph@Life Orb/Leftovers
Tinted Lens/Wonder Guard
Modest 252 HP / 4 Df / 252 SpA
~ Future Sight
~ Whirlwind
~ Roost
~ Heat Wave
With SR and one layer of Spikes this could cause serious havoc. Alternate between FS and Whirlwind with Roost as needed for prediction purposes. Heat Wave is there as a second attack if you predict something like Skarmory coming in instead and simply want to hit super effectively on the switch.
252+ SpA Life Orb Sigilyph Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Skarmory: 338-398 (101.1 - 119.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Sigilyph Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Skarmory: 260-306 (77.8 - 91.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
With Future Sight and Stealth Rock you can take out Skarmory in one turn.
252+ SpA Life Orb Sigilyph Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 177-211 (54.6 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, 1 layer of Spikes, and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Sigilyph Future Sight vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 83-99 (25.6 - 30.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock, 1 layer of Spikes, and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Tinted Lens Sigilyph Future Sight vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 166-198 (51.2 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, 1 layer of Spikes, and Leftovers recovery
With Tinted Lens you're guaranteed to take out Aegeslash switch ins immediately, even without any hazards.
252+ SpA Life Orb Sigilyph Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Scizor: 364-432 (105.8 - 125.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Sigilyph Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 328-390 (93.1 - 110.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
Ferrothorn and Mega Scizor are just gone no matter what.
252+ SpA Life Orb Sigilyph Heat Wave vs. 32 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 338-398 (121.1 - 142.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Bisharp? Not a problem
252+ SpA Life Orb Sigilyph Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 97-116 (24.6 - 29.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Sigilyph Future Sight vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 185-218 (46.9 - 55.3%) -- 15.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
You'll take a huge chunk out of Clefable. And if it's the Unaware version the hazards will almost make it a guarantee.
252+ SpA Life Orb Tinted Lens Sigilyph Future Sight vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 190-226 (52.1 - 62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Tinted Lens Sigilyph Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 101-120 (27.7 - 32.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Tinted Lens makes an otherwise great switch in here, not so much. Stealth Rock means potential OHKO.
252+ SpA Life Orb Tinted Lens Sigilyph Future Sight vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 164-195 (42.4 - 50.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, 1 layer of Spikes, and Leftovers recovery
Even Heatran will take about 50% with Tinted Lens. But Heatran, Tyranitar and the blobs are definitely the best switch ins, which is why pairing with a good Fighting type like Keldeo that was mentioned is a good idea.
This is getting interesting. Tinted Lens makes switching into this combo SO much harder than it would be otherwise. But Magic Guard is one of the best abilities there is, preventing Stealth Rock damage and Life Orb recoil. It's really a significant trade.
Doom desire/future sight rachi with healing wish pairs up well with gyarados. Ive had some fun pounding venusaur and chesnaught that thought they could wall my gyarados.
Assault Vest/Leftovers Slowbro/Slowking are great users because they're bulky as hell pivots, they easily get in, lay the trap, and get out with Regenerator. Use 252 HP 252 SpA Modest or something along those lines to make sure the base 100 SpA is actually hitting hard. Switch to something that would otherwise force in fighting types or poison types. Even if they resist the hit, they still have to take some kind of double-attack in the same turn. This usually breaks it.
Nice. I'm very tempted to try out Sigilyph for this
Does Tinted Lens work with Future Sight as long as you're using a pokemon with Tinted Lens when it hits? For example, what if I had LO Magic Guard Sigilyph or Reuniclus use Future Sight and then switch to something like bulky Tinted Lens Noctowl and used Whirlwind?
The damage is based off the pokemon that used it, I don't see why the ability wouldn't. Like, I doubt Greninja is turning into a Psychic type if you switch to him when that move hits. I think the whole reason it can go through Protect is because the damage hits after the turn, like weather or poison damage. It's just the the actual damage is based on the pokemon who used it, and the pokemon getting hit.
EDIT: Actually, Smogon's gen V analysis says its based on the stats when it strikes, so Sigilyph would have to remain in the battle for Tinted Lens damage to work I think. I don't know if this has changed or not. If anything though it means you can focus on a more bulky spread if you want to always pivot to something with better special attack but I like the idea of Sigilyph forcing switches and preventing set up with Whirlwind.
EDIT: Actually, Smogon's gen V analysis says its based on the stats when it strikes, so Sigilyph would have to remain in the battle for Tinted Lens damage to work I think. I don't know if this has changed or not. If anything though it means you can focus on a more bulky spread if you want to always pivot to something with better special attack but I like the idea of Sigilyph forcing switches and preventing set up with Whirlwind.
Last edited:
Actually building off of what Jaroda stated about Sigilyph there is also Slowking, who can utilize STAB Future Sight along with Dragon Tail to deal chip damage while shuffling combining that with entry hazards you should be able to deal a decent amount of damage (Lugia can also utilize this combo). There's also a couple of Pokemon who can use Roar and Future Sight, most of them Uber though. Lapras is the only one who wasn't Uber last gen.
However, Slowking's ability to deal damage along with heal up with Regenerator as well as being bulkier than Sigilyph probably makes him the most notable user I can think of this combo in the OU category. This set can also be ran with 56K's suggestion of an Assault Vest Slowking to really make him hard to damage.
However, Slowking's ability to deal damage along with heal up with Regenerator as well as being bulkier than Sigilyph probably makes him the most notable user I can think of this combo in the OU category. This set can also be ran with 56K's suggestion of an Assault Vest Slowking to really make him hard to damage.
This isn't OU, but I've seen people posting about UU so:
I remember using Doom Desire Heatran in STABmons last gen. It worked really well as no one saw it coming, and most people didn't even realize I used it. It also did crazy damage if I played my cards right (like a lot of people were saying you could do).
With that, I really think those moves could be very useful.
I remember using Doom Desire Heatran in STABmons last gen. It worked really well as no one saw it coming, and most people didn't even realize I used it. It also did crazy damage if I played my cards right (like a lot of people were saying you could do).
With that, I really think those moves could be very useful.
I'd like to point out that every viable user of Future Sight or Doom Desire is weak to Pursuit. If you try this hit-and-run thing, which is the only use of the moves that makes sense in my mind, you're going to get slammed by a Tyranitar or Bisharp that saw your Psychic typing and decided to come in on your FS/DD turn. I've tried this in Gen V and it's okay, but I highly doubt it's going to get anywhere this gen with Dark's popularity now that even Jirachi is Pursuit weak.
Sigilyth is incompatible with future sight and some other move or ability
Assault Vest Reuniclus can make good use of the move IMO. It's very bulky, hits hard and can come in, throw a Future Sight, get out and Regeneration can keep Reuniclus alive pretty well.
It also learns Recover to go with Magic Guard (so it will hit even harder with Life Orb).
Slowbro/Slowking are similar, but hits far less harder (but it trades that for actually resisting attacks).
It also learns Recover to go with Magic Guard (so it will hit even harder with Life Orb).
Slowbro/Slowking are similar, but hits far less harder (but it trades that for actually resisting attacks).
Gardevoir and Mr. Mime are Psychic/Fairy meaning even if a Dark-Type switches in to absorb Future Sight they may just be blasted by Dazzling Gleam. Mega Gardevoir can even slam them with Pixelated Hyper Voice so just switching in a Dark-Type wouldn't help.
Other than those two the only other Pokemon who gets STAB Future Sight without being Pursuit weak is Gallade. Who is even more notable as your opponent can't even switch in Steel-Types to absorb the Future Sight at one half damage as they would be hammered with Close Combat.
Other than those two the only other Pokemon who gets STAB Future Sight without being Pursuit weak is Gallade. Who is even more notable as your opponent can't even switch in Steel-Types to absorb the Future Sight at one half damage as they would be hammered with Close Combat.
U-Turn, Volt Switch or Baton Pass.
...two out of three of which are still vulnerable to Pursuit.
Oh my bad, U-turn and Volt Switch are for escaping trapping, not Pursuit.
Here's the thing about future sight that you have to understand if you want it to be effective. It's not the pokemon you're fighting you want to hit, it's the counter to the pokemon you switch in. You're essentially using future sight to create damned if you do, damned if you don't scenarios.
An example, I switch in mega-gardevoir, and click future sight. You go to scizor/heatran or whatever. I pivot to my keldeo who naturally threatens these two pokemon. Now you have two options, either stay in and lose to keldeo or switch out to you're azumarill, mega-venusaur etc. who will then get killed by future sight. Obviously that is a perfect example, but it can make situations where no matter what you lose a pokemon.
An example, I switch in mega-gardevoir, and click future sight. You go to scizor/heatran or whatever. I pivot to my keldeo who naturally threatens these two pokemon. Now you have two options, either stay in and lose to keldeo or switch out to you're azumarill, mega-venusaur etc. who will then get killed by future sight. Obviously that is a perfect example, but it can make situations where no matter what you lose a pokemon.
Is Pursuit used that often now though? I've been using Future Sight Alakazam on my latest team, and I've not once encountered a Pursuit user. I think it's popularity was really shored up last gen because Latios was much more powerful - now with Aegislash and fairies left, right and centre people don't as often feel the need to run Pursuit. I'm certainly not saying no one ever runs it ever, but it is certainly a lot more rare than it used to be.
Opponent switches out M-Venusaur and goes into T-tar as Mega Alakazam uses Future Sight. T-tar dies to a Focus Blast next turn. Opponent's next Pokemon now has to take a Future Sight + another attack before it even gets to do anything (assuming it doesn't outspeed M-Alakazam).
Future Sight isn't weak to Pursuit, Psychic types are. It's something that's going to be an issue regardless of the moveset you're running.
- Status