Metagame NP: RU Stage -1: Message to Oglemi, Nails, and Honko (VENOMOTH STOLEN FROM US))

[EonX]

Had no idea Weezing got Toxic Spikes this gen. Thanks for the knowledge s_aman! Drapion seems like the best one imo considering its neat typing can let it check most variants of Azelf. On the topic of Azelf, I've been working with a neat mixed attacking set that is basically designed to shit on quite a few of its checks:

Azelf @ Life Orb / Expert Belt
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Nature: Naive
- Psychic / Psyshock
- Knock Off
- Grass Knot
- Fire Punch / Flamethrower​

This Azelf is more of a wallbreaking set, but it can sweep if faster stuff is removed. Anyway, many people like to use AV mons like Escavalier, Eelektross, and mixed wall Milotic to check Azelf. How do you combat this? Simple; Knock Off. Yeah, Knock Off is a great move on Azelf since many of its common switch-ins depend on their item to outlast Azelf in some way. Psychic is still the reliable STAB move and is used over Psyshock as I carry 2 physical moves on this set. Grass Knot is nice to fuck up Rhyperior, Gastrodon, and other such bulky Waters. Fire Punch seems like a weird option, but it actually outdamages Flamethrower on AV Escavalier. Of course, Flamethrower will still OHKO Esca if it switches into any attack, so it's still perfectly usable considering it hits everything else a bit harder. If you go with Flamethrower, Psyshock is a usable move over Psychic. Life Orb gives a reliable power boost to Azelf's attacks, but Expert Belt is a viable option, especially if you run Flamethrower as it can let you bluff a special Scarf set.
And finally, another replay from last night:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rubeta-109923684 - anyone on irc late last night (around 1 am my time) knows what this match is, but this basically showcases how much of an ass Haze Milotic can be. Almost no setup sweeper is capable of OHKOing it and any stall win-con is just forced into a long pp stall war that will eventually result in a loss so long as the Milotic user has a Choice user that can Trick / Switcheroo away its choice item once Milo drains Sub PP. Even then, Haze has more PP than Calm Mind, Shell Smash, Quiver Dance, and Bulk Up, so just use one Haze for every two times they boost with CM, QD, or BU. (every time after they SS cuz of the drastic boosts) But yeah, for anyone that loved using Milotic in DPP UU, I would highly recommend you try it out in XY RU; it feels very similar to what it did in DPP UU. Oh, and Sub + 3 Attacks Gallade does work early on in this match.

 

[Bughouse]

I've been having some fun playing with what I'd refer to as XY RU's version of hail stall. Without things like Stallrein and given how offensive RU is in general, a full stall team isn't exactly possible. But I've still used a semi-stall team to good effect. I've grown tired of it though and I want to build some new stuff, so I thought I'd team dump it here:

importable

Abomasnow (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Blizzard
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Focus Blast

Kyurem @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Blizzard
- Ice Beam
- Roost
- Earth Power

Cobalion @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 Atk
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Close Combat
- Stealth Rock
- Volt Switch

Alomomola (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 220 SDef / 32 Def / 252 HP
Careful Nature
- Wish
- Waterfall
- Protect
- Toxic

Dragalge (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Poison Point
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Toxic Spikes
- Draco Meteor
- Focus Blast

Moltres @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 8 SAtk / 252 Spd / 248 HP
Timid Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Flamethrower
- Toxic

 

[Molk]

Speaking of toxic spikes, what are some good users of it? I have of course ran spikes in the past, but never toxic spikes. It seems like a really powerful support move.

Some of RU's potential Toxic Spikes setters include Cofagrigus, Qwilfish, Roselia, Drapion, Weezing, and Dragalge. In general, the Toxic Spikes setter you use on your defensive team (where toxic spikes work best imo), should depend on what your team currently needs to cover. For example, if you need a bulkly Ghost-type that can set up Toxic Spikes, you'd use Cofagrigus. If you need a Toxic Spikes setter that can also effectively phaze, your options would be drapion and dragalge. If you need a pokemon that can set up Toxic Spikes and also check Pokemon such as last mon CM reuniclus and cresselia, then drapion is your best choice.


Anyways, there's something else i want to bring up: has anyone gotten the time to use Pangoro extensively? I haven't because of my computer problems and everything (although my laptop is working again so that might change soon), but it seems like an interesting Pokemon on paper to say the least. A nerfed but still decent STAB combination of Dark/Fighting along with a threatening base 124 attack stat and a good ability in Iron Fist ensures that Pangoro will be a big offensive threat once it switches in, breaking down all kinds of bulky/defensive pokemon with ease (anyone who played NU at all last generation should know how strong CB sawk was, CB pangoro's iron fist hammer arm has around that amount of power).

Pangoro's raw power isn't the only thing it has going for it though, what is by far Pangoro's most important perk is the move Parting Shot aka: momentum in a can. Parting Shot lets Pangoro lower the opponent's offensive stats and switch out for free, potentially putting your team in a very good position and/or letting a teammate such as Nasty Plot Azelf grab a free boost. Not to mention that because of Pangoro's aforementioned raw power, it can force a lot of switches and get all kinds of opportunities to make good use of the move. On the flipside though, Pangoro isn't going to be a top tier thrat by any means because of its low speed, good but not great bulk, and bare bones movepool without useful things such as priority, knock off, or pursuit. So what do you all think of panda? Have any of you tested it out? if so, how'd it do? did it do well or did those aforementioned flaws get in the way a bit too much?

 

[Swamp-Rocket]

To me Drapion is currently the best Toxic Spikes user at the moment mostly because it has an immunity to Psychic and reliable phazing attack in Whirlwind, which is really valuable right now because of all the Psychic-types in the tier and everyone is still experimenting with a bunch of set-up sweepers, many of which happen to be Psychic-types already anyway and the ones that aren't are mostly special attackers that lack the means of hitting Drapion for super effective damage.

Drapion (M) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Toxic Spikes
- Whirlwind
- Protect / Poison Jab / Taunt

While this isn't perfect by any means, Drapion does well versus most special attackers (bar the really strong ones like Moltres), even if it won't necessarily beat them one on one since it is still kinda weak (especially on subsequent uses of Knock Off... it almost is embarrasing) and not really that bulky, but its typing really helps it compensate for the latter weakness because there are no special attacking Ground-types and the only one that uses one, Shaymin, doesn't hurt Drapion too badly. Toxic Spikes is really useful right now, as none of the rapid spinners in the tier really enjoy being poisoned, Defog isn't really that common, and there aren't really that many Poison-types at the moment. Knock Off is also huge for a Toxic Spikes user, given that it can Knock Off the opponent's potential Leftovers and speed up the stalling process much easier than before, while Whirlwind can help stop Pokemon that try and set up on the somewhat weak Drapion. It can generally get off two layers of Toxic Spikes or Knock Off a lot of items before it dies.

Drapion has problems with most physical attackers but fortunately most of these are walled by Tangrowth, with the exception of bulky stuff like BU Gallade which can be really annoying

A slight problem I have with Weezing and Cofag with Toxic Spikes is that Will-O-Wisp is really useful on both of them, and with Toxic Spikes you can no longer cripple most physical attackers. I haven't tried them out yet but I feel like this would hinder their performance slightly.

 

[aVocado]

I've been having some fun playing with what I'd refer to as XY RU's version of hail stall. Without things like Stallrein and given how offensive RU is in general, a full stall team isn't exactly possible. But I've still used a semi-stall team to good effect. I've grown tired of it though and I want to build some new stuff, so I thought I'd team dump it here:

importable

Abomasnow (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Blizzard
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Focus Blast

Kyurem @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Blizzard
- Ice Beam
- Roost
- Earth Power

Cobalion @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 Atk
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Close Combat
- Stealth Rock
- Volt Switch

Alomomola (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 220 SDef / 32 Def / 252 HP
Careful Nature
- Wish
- Waterfall
- Protect
- Toxic

Dragalge (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Poison Point
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Toxic Spikes
- Draco Meteor
- Focus Blast

Moltres @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 8 SAtk / 252 Spd / 248 HP
Timid Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Flamethrower
- Toxic

I used a semi-stall (more geared towards stall) with offensive Mega Abomasnow, Alomomola, Ferroseed, Cofag, Hitmontop, and Uxie, centered around getting as many hazards as possible (SR/Spikes are on Ferro, T.Spikes on Cofag) and wish-passing with Mola, while Hitmontop serves as a spinner and emergency check to some physically offensive threats, and Uxie as a check to Azelf with both Foul Play and Knock Off.

I've found Stall itself to be quite underwhelming in the current meta, there are just too many threats for stall to really cover. Tornadus/Azelf on their own can tear stall apart and I tried to find answers for them but I couldn't, then there's The meta's very heavily geared towards offense right now.

 

[skies]

Everyone prepare your anus because there's a new savior in the house. Yes, it is indeed the one, the only...

OMG SUCH HELIX (Omastar) @ White Herb
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SAtk
- Shell Smash
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass]

I don't know whether its me, or I just like Rock-type Shell Smashers .-. Anyways, Omastar, like most other Shell Smashers, is a dangerous threat that should be accounted for. Unlike most Shell Smashers, Omastar is a special sweeper with great coverage and generally higher BP moves. Unlike Gorebyss, its closest competition, Omastar can set up using its nice set of resistances, a la Rock typing. With pretty decent resistances, including 4x to Fire, 2x to Normal, 2x to Flying, and 2x to Ice, Omastar can often set up on a number of threats. However, there is one thing Omastar, like most other SSers, love to set up on: walls. Thanks to its ability to set up on walls, Omastar is a very useful tool vs Stall.

Shell Smash is self-explanatory, making Omastar reach 722 SpAtt and 418 Speed, nothing special. Surf > Hydro Pump cause no one likes misses and you 2HKO everything anyways. Ice Beam hits Dragons and Grass types. Hidden Power Grass hits Water types, especially Milotic and Gastrodon. Modest for more power, letting you 2HKO Cresselia. Yeah... Shell Armor bc bs crits so bad much rage ahhh help me the other abilities aren't as helpful imo. White Herb takes priority better along with Scarfed hits. IV's are the minimal Attack IV's and maximum SpAtt IV's possible for HP Grass.

So yeah, should you need a special (hahaha) stallbreaker that even has the power of 2HKO Cresselia, Milotic, and Registeel, Omastar's yo guy.

Replay :o http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rubeta-109898155 Kinda confused why he didn't D-Bond, but it would have opened up Durant sweep anyways. Also confirming SpDef Toxic Stalling Kyurem is swag.

I'd like this set more if you didn't quote TPP because it's fucking horrible. Omastar is good, but I've not been impressed, of course I ran Earth Power > Grass, but I may just test out Grass and see how it works!

 

[skies]

Had no idea Weezing got Toxic Spikes this gen. Thanks for the knowledge s_aman! Drapion seems like the best one imo considering its neat typing can let it check most variants of Azelf. On the topic of Azelf, I've been working with a neat mixed attacking set that is basically designed to shit on quite a few of its checks:

Azelf @ Life Orb / Expert Belt
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Nature: Naive
- Psychic / Psyshock
- Knock Off
- Grass Knot
- Fire Punch / Flamethrower​

This Azelf is more of a wallbreaking set, but it can sweep if faster stuff is removed. Anyway, many people like to use AV mons like Escavalier, Eelektross, and mixed wall Milotic to check Azelf. How do you combat this? Simple; Knock Off. Yeah, Knock Off is a great move on Azelf since many of its common switch-ins depend on their item to outlast Azelf in some way. Psychic is still the reliable STAB move and is used over Psyshock as I carry 2 physical moves on this set. Grass Knot is nice to fuck up Rhyperior, Gastrodon, and other such bulky Waters. Fire Punch seems like a weird option, but it actually outdamages Flamethrower on AV Escavalier. Of course, Flamethrower will still OHKO Esca if it switches into any attack, so it's still perfectly usable considering it hits everything else a bit harder. If you go with Flamethrower, Psyshock is a usable move over Psychic. Life Orb gives a reliable power boost to Azelf's attacks, but Expert Belt is a viable option, especially if you run Flamethrower as it can let you bluff a special Scarf set.
And finally, another replay from last night:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rubeta-109923684 - anyone on irc late last night (around 1 am my time) knows what this match is, but this basically showcases how much of an ass Haze Milotic can be. Almost no setup sweeper is capable of OHKOing it and any stall win-con is just forced into a long pp stall war that will eventually result in a loss so long as the Milotic user has a Choice user that can Trick / Switcheroo away its choice item once Milo drains Sub PP. Even then, Haze has more PP than Calm Mind, Shell Smash, Quiver Dance, and Bulk Up, so just use one Haze for every two times they boost with CM, QD, or BU. (every time after they SS cuz of the drastic boosts) But yeah, for anyone that loved using Milotic in DPP UU, I would highly recommend you try it out in XY RU; it feels very similar to what it did in DPP UU. Oh, and Sub + 3 Attacks Gallade does work early on in this match.

I wouldn't say Drapion is a reliable Azelf check at all.
If you switch in on the Nasty Plot:
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Azelf Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Drapion: 382-450 (111 - 130.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Azelf Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Drapion: 256-302 (74.4 - 87.7%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Still can't with AV.
Only 252/252+ AV can:
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Azelf Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Drapion: 175-207 (50.8 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
And even then, it can't switch into the +2 Fire Blast. However Knock Off of course always OHKOes.

 

[Shaymin :D]

I'd like this set more if you didn't quote TPP because it's fucking horrible. Omastar is good, but I've not been impressed, of course I ran Earth Power > Grass, but I may just test out Grass and see how it works!

Welp .-. Anyways, I could find really nothing that gets hit with Earth Power that doesn't get hit by Surf + Ice Beam, except Registeel and Toxicroak, both which lose.

+2 252+ SpA Omastar Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Registeel: 160-189 (43.9 - 51.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

4 Atk Registeel Iron Head vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Omastar: 57-67 (20.2 - 23.7%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

Loses

+2 252+ SpA Omastar Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Toxicroak: 278-328 (90.5 - 106.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Loses

One of the few things I can think of that don't really get 2HKO'd is SpDef Kyurem, still hit just as hard by Ice Beam. I fail to find something the EP hits that Water Ice coverage doesn't, and HP Grass is much more helpful for Milotic.

 

[Mudkip727]

I've been having some fun playing with what I'd refer to as XY RU's version of hail stall. Without things like Stallrein and given how offensive RU is in general, a full stall team isn't exactly possible. But I've still used a semi-stall team to good effect. I've grown tired of it though and I want to build some new stuff, so I thought I'd team dump it here:

importable

Abomasnow (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Blizzard
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Focus Blast

Kyurem @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Blizzard
- Ice Beam
- Roost
- Earth Power

Cobalion @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 Atk
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Close Combat
- Stealth Rock
- Volt Switch

Alomomola (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 220 SDef / 32 Def / 252 HP
Careful Nature
- Wish
- Waterfall
- Protect
- Toxic

Dragalge (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Poison Point
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Toxic Spikes
- Draco Meteor
- Focus Blast

Moltres @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 8 SAtk / 252 Spd / 248 HP
Timid Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Flamethrower
- Toxic

I miss my awsome stallrein... :(( the glory of stalling 50 turns...

 

[Melons-N-Soda]

So for some reason I want to play with Weezing. Any moves illegal with Toxic Spikes? I want to run something like Sludge Bomb (Or Sludge Wave if it gets it)/Toxic Spikes/WoW/Something else. I've heard it can be a decent check to Fairies and grass-types. (Mainly Slurpuff and Shaymin) I was thinking of running Fire Blast or Flamethrower to deal with Steels, but not really sure on that.

 

[Shaymin :D]

So for some reason I want to play with Weezing. Any moves illegal with Toxic Spikes? I want to run something like Sludge Bomb (Or Sludge Wave if it gets it)/Toxic Spikes/WoW/Something else. I've heard it can be a decent check to Fairies and grass-types. (Mainly Slurpuff and Shaymin) I was thinking of running Fire Blast or Flamethrower to deal with Steels, but not really sure on that.

It seems like Weezing can't have, most notably, Toxic Spikes + Pain Split, as it only gets Toxic Spikes by breeding with Yamask, and last gen, Weezing + Yamask =/= Pain Split, sadly. So it loses its only real recovery move. But hey, wish passing is a thing .-.

 

[Golemman]

Lots of good topics!
Shaymin :D Registeel wouldn't iron head your Omastar, it would most likely go for a Twave and then seismic toss.
Molk about Pangoro, I've found him to be pretty good actually! I always run scarf with iron fist and hammer arm, but have also considered CB on trick room and SD for a wallbreaker. I tried bulk up+ infestation, but it was pretty meh. And yes, parting shot is great, especially on choice sets.

 

[Shaymin :D]

Lots of good topics!
Shaymin :D Registeel wouldn't iron head your Omastar, it would most likely go for a Twave and then seismic toss.
Molk about Pangoro, I've found him to be pretty good actually! I always run scarf with iron fist and hammer arm, but have also considered CB on trick room and SD for a wallbreaker. I tried bulk up+ infestation, but it was pretty meh. And yes, parting shot is great, especially on choice sets.

Oh yeah, thats a thing .-. thanks for reminding me

 

[Punchshroom]

Anyways, there's something else i want to bring up: has anyone gotten the time to use Pangoro extensively? I haven't because of my computer problems and everything (although my laptop is working again so that might change soon), but it seems like an interesting Pokemon on paper to say the least. A nerfed but still decent STAB combination of Dark/Fighting along with a threatening base 124 attack stat and a good ability in Iron Fist ensures that Pangoro will be a big offensive threat once it switches in, breaking down all kinds of bulky/defensive pokemon with ease (anyone who played NU at all last generation should know how strong CB sawk was, CB pangoro's iron fist hammer arm has around that amount of power).

Pangoro's raw power isn't the only thing it has going for it though, what is by far Pangoro's most important perk is the move Parting Shot aka: momentum in a can. Parting Shot lets Pangoro lower the opponent's offensive stats and switch out for free, potentially putting your team in a very good position and/or letting a teammate such as Nasty Plot Azelf grab a free boost. Not to mention that because of Pangoro's aforementioned raw power, it can force a lot of switches and get all kinds of opportunities to make good use of the move. On the flipside though, Pangoro isn't going to be a top tier thrat by any means because of its low speed, good but not great bulk, and bare bones movepool without useful things such as priority, knock off, or pursuit. So what do you all think of panda? Have any of you tested it out? if so, how'd it do? did it do well or did those aforementioned flaws get in the way a bit too much?

I always thought that Pangoro's niche, aside from obvious Parting Shot, was Scrappy Fighting attacks + Dark STAB, which means few things are really safe from Pangoro's might, and those that Pangoro cannot overpower (Weezing, Alomomola, Tangrowth) can be turned into setup fodder with Parting Shot. Scrappy Hammer Arm straight up OHKOes max HP Spiritomb, which would relieve huge burdens off Gallade, Azelf, and Hitmonlee, while it can Crunch Psychic-types for a lot of damage. Unfortunately, the bulkier Psychic-types in RU are more than well equipped to handle Pangoro (Reuniclus's Focus Blast, Cresselia's Moonblast) so it hurts Pangoro's niche slightly, but I can see Pangoro as part of a two-mon core, to weaken its teammate's checks or make it much easier for them to set up on crippled opponents. Because the last thing you want to do is give the likes of Raikou, Kyurem, and Cresselia a free Substitute, or god forbid Omastar's Shell Smash.

Edit: Choiced Pangoro may prefer Iron Fist though since power matters more to them. Scrappy does lessen prediction, but only against Ghosts, and since Choice Panda usually plays the prediction game anyway it can try to nail them with Crunch, while Iron Fisting everything else (oh god that came out wrong) hitting stuff hard with boosted Hammer Arms.

 

[Menshay]

It seems like Weezing can't have, most notably, Toxic Spikes + Pain Split

Females can pass down egg moves now (removing the great majority of egg moves illegalities), so it should be perfectly possible.

 

[-Tsunami-]

Venomoth @ Life Orb
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
-Quiver Dance
-Bug Buzz
-Sleep Powder
-Roost

More people need to use Tinted Lens offensive Venomoth; it is amazing. Its not reliant on getting a lot of QD boosts and then passing them to its teammates, which can help with the prevalence of Specially Defensive Sableye, which is another ridiculously good Pokemon. At +1 with Tinted Lense, many top threats can be taken down, and Sleep Powder eases set-up as well. This thing can also hit through Substitutes, which can be helpful for 2HKOing Pokemon such as Whimsicott which think that they can just Taunt it and be fine. Pokemon who 4x resist Bug such as Cobalion and Emboar can be annoying but can be beaten. The major thorn in this thing's side is Assault Vest Escavalier, who is immune to Sleep Powder and is common in the metagame. However, it lacks recovery and Venomoth can hit it pretty hard.
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Tinted Lens Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 140-169 (40.6 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
And without Assault Vest, Venomoth has a good chance to 2HKO after SR. The QD + BP set can still be useful vs. a lot of teams, but this set should be used more as well. One can run BP over Sleep Powder or Roost, but the former greatly helps Venomoth initially set up (assuming you hit...), and the latter can allow Venomoth to set up on a plethora of other threats.

 

[passion]

k time for me to post etc :}

Shuckle @ Mental Herb
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 72 Def / 60 SDef / 124 Spd
Calm Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Sticky Web
- Encore
- Infestation / Knock Off

So idek if anybody posted about this but I of course do not care enough to check. I have noticed that there are quite a lot of pokemon that benefit from sticky webs and a lot of common RU threats are vulnerable to webs so I decided to try out Shuckle. Shuckle works kind of as a pretty reliable suicide due to its great bulk and access to both Stealth Rocks and Webs. The EV spread allows you to outspeed min speed Escav which allows you to get both Stealth Rocks and Webs vs Escav. Encore is in case something starts setting up in your face. The last moveslot is pretty much filler both are viable options. Infestation gets some extra residual/can possibly gives one of your Mons free setup after Shuckle is killed and Knock Off just to be annoying and shit. Some great teammates for Shuckie are SpecsLens Yanmega which is scary as fuck and hits ridiculously hard, Hitmonlee which is imo the best spinner in RU and hits hard as fuck with Life Orb Hi Jump Kick and has access to the almighty Knock Off, Moltres which also hits hard as fuck with two strong ass STABs in Huricane and Fire Blast Webs make this a lot harder to revenge kill, same goes for Fox Waifu [Delphox], and Milotic which can come in on shit trying to get off defogs and receive a free +2 because of competitive making it become scary as fuck.

 

[Jaguar360]

I always thought that Pangoro's niche, aside from obvious Parting Shot, was Scrappy Fighting attacks + Dark STAB, which means few things are really safe from Pangoro's might, and those that Pangoro cannot overpower (Weezing, Alomomola, Tangrowth) can be turned into setup fodder with Parting Shot. Scrappy Hammer Arm straight up OHKOes max HP Spiritomb, which would relieve huge burdens off Gallade, Azelf, and Hitmonlee, while it can Crunch Psychic-types for a lot of damage. Unfortunately, the bulkier Psychic-types in RU are more than well equipped to handle Pangoro (Reuniclus's Focus Blast, Cresselia's Moonblast) so it hurts Pangoro's niche slightly, but I can see Pangoro as part of a two-mon core, to weaken its teammate's checks or make it much easier for them to set up on crippled opponents. Because the last thing you want to do is give the likes of Raikou, Kyurem, and Cresselia a free Substitute, or god forbid Omastar's Shell Smash.

Edit: Choiced Pangoro may prefer Iron Fist though since power matters more to them. Scrappy does lessen prediction, but only against Ghosts, and since Choice Panda usually plays the prediction game anyway it can try to nail them with Crunch, while Iron Fisting everything else (oh god that came out wrong) hitting stuff hard with boosted Hammer Arms.

I've seen TheFlamingSpade on Youtube use Scrappy Choice Band Pangoro on Showdown with Parting Shot, Hammer Arm, Crunch allowing it to carry both of its niches effectively as a bulky pivot and strong wallbreaker with no immunities for its STAB moves. It's pretty interesting.

 

[EonX]

Ok, to cover topics, stuff, and other things:

Pangoro: I have yet to use this thing, but without Scrafty and many of the stronger Fairy-types in RU, Pangoro has a chance to shine. It hits pretty hard, has a neat signature move in Parting Shot, and has a good STAB combination. It can run Choice Scarf effectively, and I think Scrappy Choice Band has potential as it removes the need for prediction in that your Fighting-type STAB is fairly easy to spam and you can still use Parting Shot when you threaten a wall or slower Pokemon such as Escavalier or Slowking. Also, does anyone think Assault Vest may be useful? No recovery sucks and it isn't the bulkiest thing out there to start with, but Scrappy would give it a niche, but Parting Shot would be impossible.

Venomoth: This thing is kinda ridiculous. It can go offensive with Tinted Lens (yea, you're not the only one Yanmega) and it can also BP its boosts to scary shit like Moltres, Raikou, and Kyurem. As -Tsunami- mentioned, Baton Pass has its uses on the offensive set by allowing Venomoth to do everything it can to the opposing team, and then BP out when something like Emboar, Escavalier, or Cobalion comes in once the opponent recognizes the offensive build. Definitely something that needs to be used more as it can be a royal pain in the ass.

Shuckle: Most reliable user of Sticky Web in the tier. Mental Herb ensures that it will get down Sticky Web. The fact it can also setup Rocks is a cool bonus as well since some teams may be prepared for Sticky Web or could be Trick Room teams, which makes Sticky Web pointless. It is kinda one dimmensional in what it does, but that's never stopped things from being fully capable of doing good things in a tier.

As for a topic I want to bring up, it would be this guy that I've been running lately:

Skuntank @ Black Sludge
Ability: Aftermath
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SDef
Nature: Adamant
- Defog
- Sucker Punch
- Pursuit
- Poison Jab​

Skuntank is a fairly cool Pokemon imo. The Defog buff has certainly given it a new niche as it is the only Defog user to my knowledge that can simply absorb Toxic Spikes upon entry. This is really cool since it can just absorb the Toxic Spikes rather than having to spend a turn to Defog them away. Thanks to its decent bulk and cool typing, it is able to check most Psychic-types in the tier thanks to STAB Sucker Punch + Pursuit. While it doesn't get Knock Off, this combination allows Skuntank to be a fairly reliable check to Azelf considering it can just Pursuit the pixie if Skuntank comes in on a Psychic move or Sucker Punch should the pixie catch in on the switch with Fire Blast. The EV spread supports Skuntank's ability to check Azelf by maximizing Attack and overall bulk while lowering passive damage. This set can be played a bit more offensive with Life Orb and a faster EV spread, but I personally like the bulkier spread to check Azelf as there aren't many things that can generally win no matter what as long as Azelf isn't using U-turn as Skuntank switches in. (but every Azelf "counter" has problems with this) So has anyone else had the time to work some with Skuntank?

 

[doinktonberry]

Anyways, there's something else i want to bring up: has anyone gotten the time to use Pangoro extensively? I haven't because of my computer problems and everything (although my laptop is working again so that might change soon), but it seems like an interesting Pokemon on paper to say the least. A nerfed but still decent STAB combination of Dark/Fighting along with a threatening base 124 attack stat and a good ability in Iron Fist ensures that Pangoro will be a big offensive threat once it switches in, breaking down all kinds of bulky/defensive pokemon with ease (anyone who played NU at all last generation should know how strong CB sawk was, CB pangoro's iron fist hammer arm has around that amount of power).
Pangoro's raw power isn't the only thing it has going for it though, what is by far Pangoro's most important perk is the move Parting Shot aka: momentum in a can. Parting Shot lets Pangoro lower the opponent's offensive stats and switch out for free, potentially putting your team in a very good position and/or letting a teammate such as Nasty Plot Azelf grab a free boost. Not to mention that because of Pangoro's aforementioned raw power, it can force a lot of switches and get all kinds of opportunities to make good use of the move. On the flipside though, Pangoro isn't going to be a top tier thrat by any means because of its low speed, good but not great bulk, and bare bones movepool without useful things such as priority, knock off, or pursuit. So what do you all think of panda? Have any of you tested it out? if so, how'd it do? did it do well or did those aforementioned flaws get in the way a bit too much?

I use it quite a bit and I can say that it is a fantastic pokemon. so damn powerful and parting shot is just so damn good.

 

[SomeDrunkRockLee]

I know a lot of people have been mentioning azelf and it is well recognized as a powerhouse of the tier, but I'd like to mention one underrated option it can run: banded Azelf. It's a great addition to any VoltTurn team and a great panic button as well.

When equipped with a Choice band, Azelf can break down most of the tier, and is only aided in this endeavor by U-Turn in his arsenal; Even seemingly unbreakable walls like Alomomola can be beaten by a few U-Turns with rocks support, and few other Pokemon want to switch into Azelf.

As an added bonus, Azelf is often able to get a suprise KO (or at least a lot of damage) due to the sheer power of nasty plot azelf causing people to commonly switch in their special walls to sponge a hit; Umbreon hates taking U-Turn on the switch, and Uxie isn't fond of banded U-Turn or Knock Off.

Anyway, here's the set I've been running:

Azelf @ Choice Band
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature
- U-Turn
- Knock Off
- Explosion
- Zen Headbutt/Fire Punch/Ice Punch

U-Turn is obvious, providing switch initiative and momentum while dealing good damage to targets like Reuniclus, Shaymin, Umbreon, and others. Knock Off gives you a hard hitting tool against ghost types like Coffin as well as enabling you to cripple item reliant pokemon such as Porygon2, Gligar, and Exploud. Zen Headbutt provides STAB, but niche options like Ice/Fire Punch may be used instead to break through certain threats (Ice Punch mainly for Gligar, although it doesn't like Knock Off anyway; Fire Punch hits Ferroseed and Escavalier hard).

Finally, Explode; many people knock explode without a normal gem, but keep in mind that banded it has the exact same power- 1.5x attack. Azelf's explode is both extremely fast and extremely powerful, enabling it to function as a potent panic button or provide wallbreaking support (often against Milotic I'll sacrifice Azelf midgame with Explosion to clear the way for another sweeper- explosion does about 80% to standard 252 HP / 252 Def Bold Milotic, and since I run VoltTurn, I can switch in something like Rotom-C to volt switch and either win the KO on Milo or keep my momentum going if they switch). This allows other Pokemon with similar roles to break through the opponent's team.

 

[Molk]

Hey everyone, i just wanted to check in and say that now that i have my laptop back and up and running, and because the tier has been around for a little bit now, i've decided to put together the first council for RUbeta and do a few starting quicksuspects (nothing like UU mind you). The members of the council were chosen based on a combination of past experience with a council, activity, interest, and playing ability. As for the pokemon brought up for quicksuspected, they were decided by a combination of what the council thought were problematic along with word from other areas in the site specializing in RU (such as the irc chat #rarelyused, and RU PS! room).

The initial council is the following:

Molk
Silentverse
Nails
atomicllamas
Spirit
Hotncold
dtc
Tsunami

The pokemon being brought up for initial quick suspect are Kyurem, Sableye, and Azelf.
also Mega Big Chill
Escavalier, Tornadus, and Froslass have also been brought up, however me and the council want to see the metagame develop more before throwing out any bans/think those 3 would be more suited for a suspect if anything at all.

DRUDDIGON is also permabanned from RU

Feel free to discuss the pokemon in qustion to your heart's content, just be sure to stay civil!

 

[Evilfaic]

Well Kyurem and Azelf were obvious. Sableye's a bit surprising. Both of these are things I could do without. I actually use Scarf Kyurem on my team, and it works wonders, but I can agree that it doesn't belong in RU. As for Azelf, it's annoying and unpredictable. Kinda reminds me of the Deoxys-S suspect a while ago.

I haven't actually encountered a Sableye in my many RU battles, so I don't know how much of a threat it poses. I have seen it a few times in battles not including me, and it's performance has been underwhelming.

However, that said, I wouldn't mind seeing it go. Prankster WoW is annoying.
Actually let me rephrase that: Prankster is annoying.

I was half expecting Shaymin to be a suspect, but meh.

 

[dingbat]

I never used Kyurem/Azelf/Sableye in the first place because I didn't want to replace brokenmons on my RU team (ik ik, I'm lazy), but as a Kyurem user in the UU meta, I honestly cannot understand how Kyurem failed to make the UU cutoff in the first place. Whether it's running an Offensive/Defensive SubRoost, Choice Specs/Scarf, or even Mixed, its amazing 125/90/90 bulk and recovery coupled with 130/130/95 offensive stats, a good offensive typing, and a variety of nuking options morphs it into something that really centralizes this metagame, regardless of how atrocious its defensive typing may be. Kyurem really needs to leave the RU metagame ASAP.

 

[atomicllamas]

Well Kyurem and Azelf were obvious. Sableye's a bit surprising. Both of these are things I could do without. I actually use Scarf Kyurem on my team, and it works wonders, but I can agree that it doesn't belong in RU. As for Azelf, it's annoying and unpredictable. Kinda reminds me of the Deoxys-S suspect a while ago.

I haven't actually encountered a Sableye in my many RU battles, so I don't know how much of a threat it poses. I have seen it a few times in battles not including me, and it's performance has been underwhelming.

However, that said, I wouldn't mind seeing it go. Prankster WoW is annoying.
Actually let me rephrase that: Prankster is annoying.

I was half expecting Shaymin to be a suspect, but meh.

Sableye is legitimately the most broken of the three of the Pokemon that we chose to nominate as potential candidates for quick banning (believe it or not it was the most unanimous nominee). Because of the way that RU turned out, there are a lot fewer things capable of taking on Sableye than one would hope, due to its access to prankster Will-o-Wisp and Knock Off there are very few mons that are capable of switching into Sableye without being crippled or at least severely impaired for the remainder of the match. There are obviously a few good responses to Sableye in the tier, namely Emboar, Moltres, Shaymin, and Aromatisse, but none of these Pokemon really appreciate losing their item, making them much easier for a teammate to handle later in the match (most notably Aromatisse). Sableye also has the benefit of Prankster Recover which allows it to out stall out weaker Special Attackers very easily (this is aided by Knock Off removing LO / Specs on the switch), while priority Will-o-Wisp allows it to shut down pretty much every physical attacker in the tier without a Lum Berry or Fire-typing. Sableye also makes Stall pretty much unusable in the tier, thanks to priority taunt, good defensive typing, and knock off, meaning that unless your stall team also carries a Sableye, you will most likely lose, and stall shouldn't depend on mirror match ups between two opposing Sableye.

As for Shaymin, while it is definitely a great pokemon in RU, and potentially worthy of a suspect test at some point (definitely not this early in the meta), we are trying to only quick ban pokemon that are broken beyond any doubt. I hope my post makes sense / clears up any questions you have about the system, and of course just because a Pokemon is nominated does not mean it will be banned, so stay tuned for the results!

Edit: Editting to repost the threat list from earlier, some nice user went through and gave nice descriptions for all of the mons! http://piratepad.net/ep/pad/view/ro.Q9wmiEkA4A5/latest