Serious What should we do about bullying?

[PDC]

when i was in like 3rd grade or something like that i got "bullied" by this kid. now, i don't know if it is just my school system that does this, but if you are being bullied, like say a kid punches you or something (this also goes along with fighting up in high school i guess), you will get in serious trouble if you fight back. you are like expected to tell a teacher or something and not fight back at all if you are being pushed around. i find this stupid and counter-productive as if you are teaching kids they should not stand up for themselves on their own it is never going to fix the problem. maybe its just me, but i solved all the problems with being bullied by fighting back whether it be verbally or physically etc or w/e. after that i never had any problems again.

but then you have more serious cases, as nowadays in high school or something like that its more like harassment than being straight up bullied or w/e in most cases.

 

[Rugi]

Yeah I guess I will make slightly more serious post in thread now.

Problem with bullying isn't the people being bullied. The appropriate response to bullying isn't to just tell the victim to change so that they aren't bullied so much, or to just deal with it and assure them that it's valuable life experience or anything. That's victim blaming 101 right there.

I think I should also mention that bullying is more serious than most people probably realize. When people think "bully", the idea seems to be that it's that kid everyone knew (at the very least, knew from the movies) who would call other kids names, throw sand in their faces on the playground, and just generally be a brat. However, full-blown bullying isn't just kids being obnoxious, or devil-horned cannonballs trying to push you into lava. It's akin to what we in the adult world would call "harassment". Nobody should have to deal with that, let alone be told that it's good for them and builds character.

The real issue is just how far to take action when one kid is bullying another, as the child doing the bullying is still just a child who doesn't know much better. Another problem is that children being bullied are also just children who are clueless about how to handle their situations, which makes it difficult to get a clearly-articulated description of the problem or to get enough information to do anything about perceived problems. This is just speculation, but there's also the possible issue that schools don't necessarily have the appropriately-placed bureaucratic machinery to deal with this serious sort of thing on a systematic, consistent basis, so a lot of the decision-making falls on the normal disciplinarians (the teachers in the room) who (understandably) tread lightly by erring on the side of not doing anything rather than taking the wrong course of action. And of course, the pervasive victim-blaming attitude doesn't help any of this.

TL;DR: Bullying isn't acceptable and we shouldn't be changing the victim to try to solve it.

Surprisingly enough I agree with this post. I would just like to mention that the type of bullying I received was mostly name-calling and it wasn't name calling due to race or sexual orientation or anything. It was just name-calling. The punishment dished out for name-calling just isn't enough to deter people from doing it (especially considering that with me even some teachers were accidentally guilty of name-calling themselves) and because of that of that I felt like I had to take matters into my own hands. If it is at a level that it can be considered serious harassment then yeah let an authority step in and handle it I agree but more then often bullying is on a sort of intermediate level; bad enough that it severely affects the child but not serious enough to be strictly dealt with.

when i was in like 3rd grade or something like that i got "bullied" by this kid. now, i don't know if it is just my school system that does this, but if you are being bullied, like say a kid punches you or something (this also goes along with fighting up in high school i guess), you will get in serious trouble if you fight back. you are like expected to tell a teacher or something and not fight back at all if you are being pushed around. i find this stupid and counter-productive as if you are teaching kids they should not stand up for themselves on their own it is never going to fix the problem. maybe its just me, but i solved all the problems with being bullied by fighting back whether it be verbally or physically etc or w/e. after that i never had any problems again.

but then you have more serious cases, as nowadays in high school or something like that its more like harassment than being straight up bullied or w/e in most cases.

Likewise. Though my problems decreased over time as I ignored them when they truly went away is when I started fighting back. Keep in mind that a lot of kids that get bullied get bullied by kids older and more aggressive then them and it's often more then one person bullying them at a time. In cases like these you just can't fight back. this bullying continued 'till about grade 5. By grade 5 I could deal with anyone who wanted to bully me. But this bullying started in prep and the majority of people bullying me were from Grade 5 and 6. I can assure that no Prep can beat a group of grade 6 kids.

 

[Cresselia~~]

Yeah I guess I will make slightly more serious post in thread now.

Problem with bullying isn't the people being bullied. The appropriate response to bullying isn't to just tell the victim to change so that they aren't bullied so much, or to just deal with it and assure them that it's valuable life experience or anything. That's victim blaming 101 right there.

I think I should also mention that bullying is more serious than most people probably realize. When people think "bully", the idea seems to be that it's that kid everyone knew (at the very least, knew from the movies) who would call other kids names, throw sand in their faces on the playground, and just generally be a brat. However, full-blown bullying isn't just kids being obnoxious, or devil-horned cannonballs trying to push you into lava. It's akin to what we in the adult world would call "harassment". Nobody should have to deal with that, let alone be told that it's good for them and builds character.

The real issue is just how far to take action when one kid is bullying another, as the child doing the bullying is still just a child who doesn't know much better. Another problem is that children being bullied are also just children who are clueless about how to handle their situations, which makes it difficult to get a clearly-articulated description of the problem or to get enough information to do anything about perceived problems. This is just speculation, but there's also the possible issue that schools don't necessarily have the appropriately-placed bureaucratic machinery to deal with this serious sort of thing on a systematic, consistent basis, so a lot of the decision-making falls on the normal disciplinarians (the teachers in the room) who (understandably) tread lightly by erring on the side of not doing anything rather than taking the wrong course of action. And of course, the pervasive victim-blaming attitude doesn't help any of this.

TL;DR: Bullying isn't acceptable and we shouldn't be changing the victim to try to solve it.

Especially when sometimes, the bullied is actually being so good/ so cool that the reason for bullying was jealousy from the bully.

 

[Outlaw]

I'm gonna hop over to the LGBTQ thread and tell them to stop being a bunch of pussies and go straight if they want to be accepted by their family and society. It's definitely something wrong with them as to why people don't treat them the same as me.

 

[000MobianAngel000]

I do agree with the original OP. In my opinion, I personally don't believe in the teaching of psychology.

________My Story__________​

I had trouble with therapists due to my sexual orientation being that of zoosexual and my spiritual beliefs. I have been viewed by teachers, my mother and others as a rapist, retarded, weird etc. and needed to seek mental help. Many others tried to convert me into being socially "adequate" and to shift my orientation to only seeking humans. By god that was not fun during those days. The one person who tried it made me feel possessed and gave me the sickly feeling to change because "I" believed that "I" was disgusting and worthless. *And having PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) and anxiety didn't help either.

*Many things like this, discrimination on media and the majority of close-minded people in the outside life away from the television and computers throughout the years of me living influences my PTSD and anxiety and can be a ***** to cope with at times. And seeking any kind of physiological help would only make it worse. But physical therapy might work and I might use it some day.

__________My Views on Bulling & What I think causes it___________​

I find media and other outsources like the majority of society, the lies that spread around about, "what is the norm and what is not" to be a leading cause in this generation of discriminators. But also the individual who chooses the dive themselves into those lies and majority feeling like they have power over everyone else and can treat others poorly "since the society forbids these social abnormalities".

___________What I do now when it comes to bullying____________​

Note: Different methods work for different people in their own situations so please don't think my current solution it in any way good for you.

Currently I just gave up on making any friends on Earth right now. My goal is to go to college and get my degree and hopefully move somewhere where I can own my own house and create a new life for myself and sustain my own fulfillment in happiness for my living. I have my spiritual side of my life that keeps me company and helps me when I am down so I can make it through this generation.

*Sorry for any poor grammar and spelling.

 

[Navy]

Long Story Short.

I was bullied numerous times when i first arrived to New Jersey. At first, my reaction was. "I can't beat this bully, so let me find a way to dodge him or try to be as nice as possible and hope he doesn't bully me". I was a giant pussy when it came to fighting, since i was so inexperienced defending myself, that i wouldn't have the balls to stand up to any bully...So time went on, and the more it happened the more i started to rage, the more i started to picture a Fight in my head, just envisioning shit between me and "the bully".

So 1 day i decided to change my ways. And i began to fight, literally FIST FIGHT. Every single one of those bullies who kept trying to punk me...I Won some and i Lost some. But whether i Won or Lost. I gained a large amount of experience, I was later respected for standing up to them. I'm not saying Fighting is the answer to these things, but where i come from, Fighting was the ONLY option, and i learned the hard way...

I remember 1 day, after a friendly football game around the block, this 1 kid who thought he was bad ass because he was in some gang, tried to bully me. And at first, i was scared to even stand up to him, but he tried to tackle me down when the play was over. So after he tackles me, i called him out to Fight. No seriously, I literally told him "Yo. I'm tired of your shit, let's Fight right now, i'm calling you out". The Kid laughed, and took his shirt off, ( just a typical hood (BAN ME PLEASE) ). So as were getting ready to fight, he tried to sneak a punch on me, he got me by an inch. But after that, i ate this Kid up. I couldn't stop hitting him to the point where i made his gangster ass CRY!. I whooped his ASS! one of my biggest accomplishments to this day, was me standing up for myself and defending myself and beating the Respect into that asshole...

So for those who ever felt like punching the SHIT, out of a bully, aim for the jaw or nose, just crack their shit. It's never a mistake to show these bullies, they're not the only ones who can Fight.

 

[xenu]

it seems that most people who make the argument that "yea bullying sucks but its part of the natural social order dude blah blah blah charles darwin blah blah blah DNA" were either never bullied themselves or just suffer from stockholm syndrome to the extent that they'll rationalize their bullying along the lines of "Wow, I was bullied, but NOW I realize I needed it so I could Man Up™ and balance could be restored to the universe. I guess it's only to be expected since New Cynicism has the popular imagination by the balls but are you stupid? How can you possibly justify something that causes quantifiable harm to an individual by claiming that it has some vague balance-restoring effect on the macrocosmic level ie some undefinable Greater Good™? This is almost as retarded as the argument that bullying is necessary because bullied kids become great scientists and artists. What the fuck, dude? You expect to be applauded because you read On The Origin Of Species and vaguely understand the meaning of the term "Natural Selection"? Bullying is needed for balance, right? Conservation of energy? For every light there must be a darkness? Right??

Jesus. Bullying harms the individual, and since society is made up of individuals it - by virtue of deduction - harms society. I refuse to believe the argument to the contrary is anything more than the some new "edgy" flavor of the month deal.

 

[KS2]

I guess a good way of stopping bullies is to try and stop them showing that they are better than you, because I think that it's human nature to try and be popular and 'better' than others. Im not sure how you could go about this, witty replies or just ignoring them could work, when victims call some sort of authority to deal with the bullies, try not to seem too reliant on them eg; walking with the teacher to the bully. This might show the bully that you are weak, which will make him feel better about himself. Victims could instead avoid the bullies for a while after telling the teacher to let the bully simmer down a bit and cool off from the thoughts of revenge against the victim for getting him in trouble that he would be thinking after being told off.

 

[termi]

@ all the people who are all about this "toughen up" and "you're the reason why they bully you" shit:

Do you even realize what bullying includes? See, toughening up and dealing with yourself is cool and all when one person in particular is picking on you, but this barely ever happens when we're talking about bullying. Bullying usually takes on a much broader scale than just one brat hitting you and calling you names and taking your lunch money and whatnot, in most cases bullying is done by multiple people. Do you think anyone is able to stand up for himself when it's him vs 3 or 5 or 10 people bullying him? You can't do shit about it but become stoic and try not to give a fuck, but that doesn't make it stop and it doesn't make your life good.

Also, when we are talking about bullying, we are talking about longer time periods in which a kid is being bullied. Bullying isn't that one day where you fell into a puddle on your way to school and have been made fun of by your classmates that day, it's something that's being done by one group of kids for a long time and that won't stop. Before you point out that I am stating the obvious, I should inform you that I wanted to reinforce this point because some people seem to think that bullying is somehow beneficial for anyone. They point out that you have flaws, and it's a "cold world, no snuggie tho" out there (holy balls how low do you have to stoop to make your point clear by using cheesy J. Cole lyrics smfh) so you better know what to improve on. All nice and dandy, except bullying is not the one thing to point out your flaws. There will come a time for anyone that someone will point out someone else's flaws soon enough in one way or another, or maybe a person will stumble upon a problem that he can't solve because of that one flaw and thus figure out what's wrong with him by himself. Bullying might point out someone's flaws (although it should be noted that this is not always the case - many people are being picked on for something as trivial as wearing glasses or having an odd name, something that's not a flaw inherent to their personality at all and therefor can hardly be improved), however, bullying is a long process that does more than just pointing out this flaw and making you improve upon it, it also mentally damages you. Now why would you want that, when there's plenty of other ways to discover your flaws?

tl;dr don't be a piece of shit by trying to justify bullying, it's dumb and it's wrong and it only causes harm. Go fuck yrself maybe.

 

[im still obnoxious and my mom still doesnt like me]

Meh,I can fight them off with my martial arts skills.
But really,something has to be done about bullying.I can't stand seeing others punched,kicked,beaten,etc.

 

[KS2]

Physical retaliation is definitely a way to stop bullying but it isn't the only way

 

[Deck Knight]

We should pass a law mandating that children stop being immature. We will also make schools have a zero tolerance policy for child immaturity and overreact at every trigger with extreme prejudice. That will learn those brats.

OK, OK, enough political correctness - here's what you're here for:

Bullying happens. It sucks, but It's not "murder" like Jorgen was gaming around comments with (even with the noted retraction). There is no good response to being screwed around with by a hormonal child with a completely whacked out personal behavior code. There are asshole kids who don't even know you who will punch you in the gut or push you up against a fence just because they can. If it's more effective to deter it, deter it. If it's more effective to cope with it, cope. And if people keep bullying you for something you actually can change, it's not "blaming the victim" to consider changing that too as a mechanism to stop it.

But bullying is never going to go away until differences between individuals go away, and that's never going to happen - and it shouldn't happen besides.

 

[Minwu]

The real-world solution to bullying is obviously meticulous and probably indiscernable, but I think the general positive direction to go in is holistic improvement of behavioral mental health and social attitudes --> an assembly line of group child counselling -> rehab -> expulsion for bullies.

PS xenu makes good posts when he cares about something, huh.

Society serves the individual, and sadistic cruelty from children (whether they know better or not) isn't a lesson in self-improvement -- it's one in environmental improvement. Anything internalized to the contrary is a shackle we should teach bullied children (and maturing survivors) the way out of if we really do want them to become autonomous adults.

 

[Vein]

Just read the title:
What should we do about bullying?

Yes, bullied are victims... but how can you help them if you just tell them they are victims. It's like having a huge wall in your front and do nothing and say "fuck, I'm trapped. I die".

You can't wait society to change. Bullies are everywhere. Government, media, teachers, parents can do nothing to stop it, no matter how much we don't want to accept it. The closest thing to solve this is thru the bullied themselves, in any way possible.

Some bullied say "I'm bullied coz I'm black", but guess what? There are millions of blacks who are not bullied. Some say "I'm bullied coz I'm nerd", but guess what? there are millions of nerds who are not bullied. A funny thing for a guy here, "I'm bullied coz I'm adult playing Pokemon", and guess what, there are many adults playing Pokemon who are not bullied. Etcetera.

That said, what's the difference between those bullied and not bullied with the same conditions? Idk, approach to bullying maybe? How you present yourself despite the condition? Environment, location, whatever? The point is, maybe the bullied themselves can do something about it. So just don't encourage them/yourself to self-pity and wait for others to help them.

 

[Minwu]

except, as an outsider, helping them might be good too

 

[Kangaaroo]

There's certainly different types of bullying, and different types of bullying affect different types of people in different ways, (obviously). What is less known is that the bully can be affected by their own bullying. Now, I'm not saying you should feel sorry for bullies, but take this with a grain of salt.

I was bullied in 3rd grade and 5th grade by this guy who'd lost his father three years prior. There was an an obvious connection between the loss of his father and the bullying towards me, but back then I couldn't care less and just wanted him to stop. 7 years pass and we're best friends. Yes yes, kind of cliche I know, but it's how it happened. He'd always apologised about the bullying; he always said he hated the fact that he had said those things.

He committed suicide a month ago. Not trying to be dramatic, that's what happened.

 

[Stallion]

Having been bullied, I can say that bullying is absolutely horrible. However, that being said, it did make me the person I am today. I will explain this later.

As to what we can do about bullying, I think we all have to answer this question on a personal basis. Though there have been a plethora of anti-bullying laws legislated, we all know that there is only so much the way can do, and it is often ineffective. Also, guidance counselors and psychologists are seldom helpful.

I personally believe that one should not change if his/her behavior does not hurt someone else or because of outer peer pressure. Change will occur naturally as we grow, however, often due to our experiences.

Now, why do bullies bully? There are many answers to this, but one very common one is that they need to attack weak prey in order to make themselves feel better; they need to feed their ego. The OP's psychologist is correct in that you cannot change a person; people can only change themselves. However, that does not mean something should not be done. Simply, the approach has to be different.

Do not change whatever you are being bullied for. That will not work. Bullies will find anything to make fun of. The best answer, honestly, is to fight back. Don't take shit from anyone. If they know that you're serious in defending your personal integrity, they will stand down. It is important to note that fighting back does not always have to be physical, however, even though I took this route (and he stopped immediately afterwards); it can be verbal, legal, arbitrary, etc. But do something. Don't just sit there and take it. It's not worth it.

Being bullied will not make you a stronger person. Standing up for yourself does, because you are worth it.

I'm quoting this entire post because I agree with it entirely...my biggest regret is that I didn't stand up for myself more often at school, but the times I did I actually got left alone by the instigators.

 

[Eagle4]

Ookay my story

So I've been bullied for 8 years now, fluctuating in severity. At the start it was typical childish behaviour; calling me names, pinching me, degrading me and making me feel bad about myself. I admit to not having the greatest of social skills, but I still had many close friends and there were only a select few that bullied me. I've always been an emotional child and so I react very badly to the bullying, where comments about me would make me feel much worse about myself than what would be expected. There were many reasons to pick on me in particular - social skills or lack thereof aside, such as my size, ethnicity and other attributes. It was difficult, but not as difficult as what was to come. During Year 6 (so at the age of 10) I was going okay. I was still bullied, but to a much smaller extent. There was this kid who I was close friends with. Well, during a school trip we got involved in an argument and he suddenly started ignoring me. Obviously this was distressing as I was losing a close friend. However, instead of ignoring me completely he turned on me and became the main bully towards me. He also forced many of my other friends to bully me (which did involve beating me up). So I was obviously going through a rough period during that year, where many of my friends had turned against me and I was feeling isolated.

At the start of secondary school (aged 11), what was left of my social skills had all but depleted due to my experiences during the year beforehand. As such, I found it very difficult to make friends and was once again the subject of bullying. This bullying continued to the point where I've felt consistently mellow or sad up until Year 11. While the bullying didn't stop, I did feel like I was getting more used to it.

Year 11 (aged 15, and the year I am currently just about finishing up), is a horrible time for me. I was subject to much more bullying and I lapsed into heavy depression just before Christmas last year. I think it was a case of all my emotions being bottled up from the previous years, and I had had simply enough of all the bullshit in my life, and just let it all out. The depression has stuck with me since Christmas -- but enough about my depression, since this is not the thread for it.

--

I have tried many different methods of counteracting the bullying. Seeking guidance from teachers has never worked, due to the bullies' tendencies to increase their antics towards me as a result of the teacher talking to them. Or, as in the case with my last school, they simply didn't help or understand, and so worsened it by they themselves picking on me. Ignoring what the bullies say is also a horrible idea. It really grates on you and makes you feel worse about yourself. It is also not a good idea to retort when a bully teases you. It mostly aggravates the bully. I've also tried talking to the bullies to make them understand how they make me feel. The problem is that they don't care and/or don't understand how their bullying has made my life barely worth living.

There are two methods of counteracting the bullying that I would never do

• Retaliate by beating them up. I wouldn't do this for many reasons. I am weak and frail, but I am also non-violent. I often fantasize about beating the bullies up but I can't bring myself to do it (that's not cowardice, that's being a good person), and I would be acting as a bully if I do do so, which is something I detest.
  
• Changing who I am. It feels false to do otherwise. I want to stay true to myself and not just give in to the demands of the bullies. Changing who I am doesn't do anything to stop the act of bullying; it gives them the idea that they have won and forced me to change who I am. There will be no advancement in the prevention of bullying if the victims change who they are, while the bullies stay the same

Anyway I know (just realised) this is a thread bump but this topic really deserves more attention

 

[Flechazo]

Ookay my story

So I've been bullied for 8 years now, fluctuating in severity. At the start it was typical childish behaviour; calling me names, pinching me, degrading me and making me feel bad about myself. I admit to not having the greatest of social skills, but I still had many close friends and there were only a select few that bullied me. I've always been an emotional child and so I react very badly to the bullying, where comments about me would make me feel much worse about myself than what would be expected. There were many reasons to pick on me in particular - social skills or lack thereof aside, such as my size, ethnicity and other attributes. It was difficult, but not as difficult as what was to come. During Year 6 (so at the age of 10) I was going okay. I was still bullied, but to a much smaller extent. There was this kid who I was close friends with. Well, during a school trip we got involved in an argument and he suddenly started ignoring me. Obviously this was distressing as I was losing a close friend. However, instead of ignoring me completely he turned on me and became the main bully towards me. He also forced many of my other friends to bully me (which did involve beating me up). So I was obviously going through a rough period during that year, where many of my friends had turned against me and I was feeling isolated.

At the start of secondary school (aged 11), what was left of my social skills had all but depleted due to my experiences during the year beforehand. As such, I found it very difficult to make friends and was once again the subject of bullying. This bullying continued to the point where I've felt consistently mellow or sad up until Year 11. While the bullying didn't stop, I did feel like I was getting more used to it.

Year 11 (aged 15, and the year I am currently just about finishing up), is a horrible time for me. I was subject to much more bullying and I lapsed into heavy depression just before Christmas last year. I think it was a case of all my emotions being bottled up from the previous years, and I had had simply enough of all the bullshit in my life, and just let it all out. The depression has stuck with me since Christmas -- but enough about my depression, since this is not the thread for it.

--

I have tried many different methods of counteracting the bullying. Seeking guidance from teachers has never worked, due to the bullies' tendencies to increase their antics towards me as a result of the teacher talking to them. Or, as in the case with my last school, they simply didn't help or understand, and so worsened it by they themselves picking on me. Ignoring what the bullies say is also a horrible idea. It really grates on you and makes you feel worse about yourself. It is also not a good idea to retort when a bully teases you. It mostly aggravates the bully. I've also tried talking to the bullies to make them understand how they make me feel. The problem is that they don't care and/or don't understand how their bullying has made my life barely worth living.

There are two methods of counteracting the bullying that I would never do

• Retaliate by beating them up. I wouldn't do this for many reasons. I am weak and frail, but I am also non-violent. I often fantasize about beating the bullies up but I can't bring myself to do it (that's not cowardice, that's being a good person), and I would be acting as a bully if I do do so, which is something I detest.
  
• Changing who I am. It feels false to do otherwise. I want to stay true to myself and not just give in to the demands of the bullies. Changing who I am doesn't do anything to stop the act of bullying; it gives them the idea that they have won and forced me to change who I am. There will be no advancement in the prevention of bullying if the victims change who they are, while the bullies stay the same

Anyway I know (just realised) this is a thread bump but this topic really deserves more attention

Have you tried pressing charges--specifically assault and battery? You should look up any anti-bullying laws in your state and research whether they're criminal or civil. If you have not tried a legal avenue for a solution, it may be about time since you have exhausted your options.

About your fragility and pacifism, if you're getting beaten up or threatened it may be a good idea to start bulking up. Just like in Pokemon, you do not want to be defenseless; unfortunately, because people lack a sense of honor these days, that just makes you easy prey. You don't want to be that, and you don't have to be. Now, I'm not saying to build a lot of muscle to be able to beat them up--quite the contrary. You just want to be able to defend yourself and be able to run away if possible. Learn how to restrain the opponent. Also, going to the gym may find you an unsuspecting friend--sometimes strong friends. There is safety in numbers. If you're not making friends at school, find other places to make them. You'll be surprised at what things you have in common with people, and that will also help develop your social skills--a necessary survival skill in this world.

Having been depressed myself, I know that depression is very, very difficult to get out of--and this is absolutely the place to talk about bullying-related depression. It takes so much willpower to overcome it, but you can--and you don't have to go through it alone. I know some people argue that some bullying victims just can't muster the strength to do so, but I'm telling you right now that that's a bunch of horseshit. You have to decide for yourself when enough is enough, and, hearing your story, I think you've had more than your fair share. You don't want to have to go through this forever, so you have to take action--different from what you've already done. You don't have to change who you are on a fundamental level, but become stronger--physically and mentally. The first is for defensive purposes, but the second is where true strength comes from.

@ all the people who are all about this "toughen up" and "you're the reason why they bully you" shit:

Do you even realize what bullying includes? See, toughening up and dealing with yourself is cool and all when one person in particular is picking on you, but this barely ever happens when we're talking about bullying. Bullying usually takes on a much broader scale than just one brat hitting you and calling you names and taking your lunch money and whatnot, in most cases bullying is done by multiple people. Do you think anyone is able to stand up for himself when it's him vs 3 or 5 or 10 people bullying him? You can't do shit about it but become stoic and try not to give a fuck, but that doesn't make it stop and it doesn't make your life good.

I understand where you're coming from, but I think it's important to note that those statements are very badly articulated. The point is not to become the bully back; the point is to be able to defend yourself in the case that you are either physically or emotionally attacked. Is it better to be able to defend yourself just in case or stay defenseless? I think that question speaks for itself.

Also, from experience, stoicism is a very bad idea and usually makes things several times worse because others develop sometimes real reasons to bully you and are thus validated. This brings me to my point I really want to emphasize:

Be nice to people! Don't ever, EVER give up that part of you. There is still some good in people (albeit hard to find), and the power of friendship is something you shouldn't underestimate. Remember: Becoming emotionally strong does not mean becoming an asshole, quite the contrary, actually.

 

[danilo]

This whole eliminate bullying/victims shouldn't have to change is just another aberration on a long list of aberrations that liberalism gone crazy is manifesting among dudes around our age (thinking 16 to mid-twenty people). Strife builds character. Adversity builds character. Bullying builds character.

Is bullying always a good thing? No. Every few months the local news has a story of another kid who was the victim of harsh bullying and killed their self. In those extreme cases someone probably should've stepped in. But in most cases, bullying is nothing more than another hill we all have to ride our bikes over.

Back to the whole suicide and depression thing since that is where I feel most of you super anti-bully people get your panties in bunches. People will point to the internet and cyberbullying for the increase in suicides and depression due to bullying. I don't think so. I think the increase in suicides is a manifestation of this generations parents who gave us awards every baseball season for trying even though we sucked ass, who shielded us from struggle, who told us we were great even though we are no greater than the generation before us; we are not all winners.

If the victims thought of themselves as valuable then there wouldn't be this problem. Find value in yourself. If you can't find value in yourself then change yourself so that you can go to sleep everyday feeling valuable. That way when your dickhead of a bully confronts you, probably a dickhead similar to the kind of person most of you will think that I am, you can get over it by the end of the night. Just know that you will have to ride over the hill again tomorrow; maybe it'll be a less difficult ride this time around.

 

[Flechazo]

Post with flawed deductive reasoning filled with logical fallacies such as ad lapidem, post-hoc, and non-sequiturs.

It's obvious you have never experienced the kind of bullying that this generation has grown up in; in short, you're sheltered. The bullying climate today is vastly different from the one in the past. Instead of being one-on-one, bullying has evolved to involve a pack of people preying on the weak to climb the social ladder, unfortunately the most important thing for every generation of teenagers. If you're going to argue that "bullying builds character"--an argument built on your flawed deductive reasoning that because strife and adversity build character therefore bullying builds character--then I would love to hear a comprehensive argument of how bullying in general does so, but you never explain how. You only use post-hocs (e.g. "the increase in suicides is a manifestation of this generations [sic] parantes who gave us awards every baseball season [...] even though we sucked ass [Yours may have, but not necessarily true for everyone.]" and "if the victims thought of themselves as valuable then there wouldn't be this problem") to (falsely) prove your point.

Additionally, strife and adversity do not build character. This conclusion arises from a fundamental misunderstanding of those phenomena. Strife and adversity cause pain and stress, and they overwhelm. It is a person's reaction to strife and adversity that build character; however, reacting positively is very difficult when you have a gang of people tearing apart every bit of progress you make. Furthermore, many victims originally did think of themselves as valuable, but being bullied changed that perception of themselves. It is not "liberalism gone crazy"--a non-sequitur--as you assert; the changed climate has made bullying an incredibly destructive force, one that cannot be handled alone. That is what makes today's bullying a problem.

 

[Demoness]

I think the increase in suicides is a manifestation of this generations parents who gave us awards every baseball season for trying even though we sucked ass, who shielded us from struggle, who told us we were great even though we are no greater than the generation before us; we are not all winners.

How the fuck can you even think this is true? It is not the fault of the parents wanting to give their kids a cheer-me-up and giving them positive reinforcement: It is the fault of the shits who feel the need to single out and tear people down because they feel better about themselves. Hell, this positive reinforcement given by your parents is probably actually helping you get through the incessant bullying you are going through. Either way, I wasn't coddled by my parents. When I fucked up, they told me that I fucked up, and guess what? When I was horribly bullied, I still developed an attitude of "fuck everyone" because I didn't think that anyone would want to actually be my friend.

Strife builds character. Adversity builds character. Bullying builds character.

Yes adversity does build character. You know what doesn't build character? Constantly being shit on by people who think that you are worthless and need to beat any sense of self-worth out of you for their own amusement. Man, I sure learned a lot from getting playground rocks constantly thrown at me whenever I dared to go outside during 6th grade!

Oh, and think I should tell a little thing about bullies that I have learned. It really doesn't matter if you change the one thing that they may be harassing you for. They will just pick something else about you that they feel they can reasonably shit on. If they already have you as an easy victim and target, why would they go through the hassle of immediately giving up and finding another person to bully if they can't use whatever they were using as a reason to bully you?

If the victims thought of themselves as valuable then there wouldn't be this problem. Find value in yourself. If you can't find value in yourself then change yourself so that you can go to sleep everyday feeling valuable.

Well if it was as easy as you imply to just find reasons you are valuable and actually believing them, then we wouldn't be having this issue. Unfortunatley for people like myself, we couldn't just learn to value things about ourselves as quickly as yourself. Any self-value or image I had was quickly torn down because people found a sadistic pleasure in doing so. When any attempt of yours of trying to raise above the level you are ends with a group brutally forcing you back down or even farther down, you will eventually develop a defeatist attitude and give up because what is the point when you clearly aren't making any progress? It's really easy to say when you are older/have never been bullied that the victims are clearly instigating it and should just "man the fuck up". However, when you are a child with large emotional instability issues, virtually no social skills, plenty of shit that is popular to bully, and cannot develop the necessary ability to actually cope because of a whole hodgepodge of mental issues, you really don't take the lessons to heart.

 

[danilo]

QUESTIONS for Flechazo :
What do you mean climate in the past? Do you mean when i was like 8 years old (im 18 currently)? Did you mean thirty years ago? What do you mean?

What climate change are you talking about?

Why has the climate changed? Why isn't it the same? Is it just the internet? Is it something else?

If you're gonna whine about me not bringing proof then you should probably not do the same thing with your response.

To respond to your nitpicking: OKAY, reaction to strife and adversity build character. If you think of yourself as valuable, then a gang of dickheads shouldn't be able to change that that value. Instead, you should see those dicks as a way to reaffirm your belief in yourself.

I'm not going to prove to you that reactions to challenges builds character, just like I'm not going to prove to you that crying over a failed math test makes you study harder for the next one, or whatever obviously true parallel analogy i want to bring up is true.

To respond to the Berserker Lord

How the fuck can you even think this is true? It is not the fault of the parents wanting to give their kids a cheer-me-up and giving them positive reinforcement: It is the fault of the shits who feel the need to single out and tear people down because they feel better about themselves. I wasn't coddled by my parents. When I fucked up, they told me that I fucked up, and guess what? When I was horribly bullied, I still developed an attitude of "fuck everyone" because I didn't think that anyone would want to actually be my friend.

I obviously don't think the parents are solely to blame; if that wasn't obvious, my bad! Don't throw rocks at me in the playground!

Yes adversity does build character. You know what doesn't build character? Constantly being shit on by people who think that you are worthless and need to beat any sense of self-worth out of you for their own amusement. Man, I sure learned a lot from getting playground rocks constantly thrown at me whenever I dared to go outside during 6th grade!

Get over it. I had a tough year in middle school too. Many of my friends did, too. You know what we did differently? We did something. And when we failed we tried again. I don't care how hard it is or was for you; it was hard for all of us too. Why can we get through it and you can't? Why didn't you try harder? Because we were stronger than you? Okay, nice copout answer.

Well if it was as easy as you imply to just find reasons you are valuable and actually believing them, then we wouldn't be having this issue. Unfortunatley for people like myself, we couldn't just learn to value things about ourselves as quickly as yourself. Any self-value or image I had was quickly torn down because people found a sadistic pleasure in doing so. etc

To reiterate, I do not care how easy or hard it is for you. Not everything should be easy. Middle school is a critical period in one's life. You can either sink and whine about your troubles to people like me who don't give a damn because we had similar struggles and got over it, or you could've kept trying and didn't give up. OR you could've just said "well i'm going to get beat up at recess today. but, im a smart kid with a smart future ahead of me. middle school doesn't last forever. i'll find my niche soon." Whatever you chose is your prerogative.

 

[elcheeso]

Ah right, I didn't realise that I was actually doing a favour to all those kids I beat the shit out of in high school. I was building a kid's character when I broke his jaw! God damn, I must be some kind of hero for having made things harder for all those fucking babied whiners who didn't realise that me trying to find their limits and laughing when they finally broke is a GOOD thing. When I threatened to kill them and made them afraid to come to school? Bah. Toughen up, (BAN ME PLEASE)s. Stop making excuses. When your parents are abusive, the kids at school are abusive or your significant other is abusive, you should NEVER think that what they're doing is bad, it's just character building. You gotta get over that hill, yo. Never report it unless you've already killed yourself, because that's the only way we can tell it has stopped being a positive thing (we shouldn't have to care about how hard things were for you unless you're dead, see?). You have it coming because without us you will grow up to kill yourself because god knows no one has ever been able to deal with adversity unless they are constantly having their self worth questioned or shat upon.

Australian of the Year right here. It's me. The (now adult) people who couldn't find it in their hearts to forgive me (even though they should be apologising to ME for being stupid babies who had it coming)? Obviously just another pack of whiny pinko liberals who can't hack it in the real world. They can be safely told how to feel about their abuse.

 

[Stratos]

Can we please cut the personal stories and butthurt from this thread? They never help it. Everyone ITT has been touched by bullying, I'm sure. Providing your own testimonial to someone who has himself been bullied is not going to suddenly open his mind, and as good as it may feel to vent at someone who just pissed you off, it's not helping anyone. Simply because some people itt came to a different conclusion from their own experiences does not necessarily mean they were milder than anyone else's. It simply means the people came to a different conclusion. If you're saying "had you gone through what I went through, you wouldn't be saying that!"—well, maybe so. Probably not. They would probably still be saying the exact same thing.

Looking at danilo's post, beyond some of the invective it contains, it does absolutely present a legitimate point: susceptibility to bullying-related emotional issues stems from an external locus of self-worth, and having an external locus of self-worth is a behavior supported by the self-esteem movement. This is the point of view advanced by people such as Martin Seligman, who was chairman of the APA for a while. I've done no personal investigation into this matter beyond taking an introductory psychology course so forgive me if im misunderstanding this / saying it wrong / martin seligman isnt a real person. But there are real psychologists, prominent in their field, who indeed blame heightened rates of depression on the self esteem movement.

Honestly I think more to blame than anything is the fact that public schools take children who still don't realize that pouring juice from a wide cup into a narrow cup doesn't give you more juice, and stick them in classes with kids who can be cruel—with no outlet to avoid them. By the time we're going through puberty, our brains are developed enough for a stable, positive, and internally controlled self image, but before then they aren't. And providing us no choice of who we hang out with before then—before kids are mature enough to be kind anyways to those they simply have a dispositional disagreement with—is incredibly dangerous. This problem is only compounded by a society that equips kids poorly to handle such problems.

And because I know I'm probably going to end up being attacked for this post, I was bullied often as a kid, to the point that I legitimately considered suicide as a ten year old. Yet looking back, I don't blame the bullies at all. Second after society, I blame myself for my circumstances. So it's not a case of "real victims think bullies should be stopped, people who've never been bullied say man the fuk up (BAN ME PLEASE)."

Edit: perhaps a major problem with this thread is it never differentiated pre- and post-pubescent bullying. Theyre two very different problems, with very different causes. I mostly experienced prepubescent bullying. What elcheeso describes seems like it happened later—in high school. The two are quite different