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np: XY UU Stage 1 - Reload [Salamence: BL | Next: DROPS!!!]
- Thread starter kokoloko
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Healing damn near everything back to full is nice and all but realistically you're only every going to get a wish passed to something that still has a good chunk of its health left.
Vaporeon also has pretty gargantuan wishes, and while they don't heal nearly everything for 100% they're still going to heal a sufficient amount on anything that you can actually pass a wish to. And Alomomola's wishes are even larger, and with Regenerator it can heal itself while wish passing.
And Doublade is kind of ass imo.
You guys make it seem like defog hasn't made hazards easier to deal with. Without bisharp to punish defog, really there is no stopping a pokemon like mew from blowing those things away, if there every much of an issue to begin with. Especially with a wish supported defogger or spinner.
I had no problem keeping Chansey healthy when she was legal, the teams I made with her were practically invulnerable, Blissey while not being as bulky does has less demand for healing due to being able to carry around leftovers. Lets not forget how much of an issue Chansey was even WITHOUT her Eviolite, Blissey is all that and more. I genuinely think she is going to cause the same issue Chansey did. Of course don't ban her right away, but I would say she deserves to be on a potentially broken list
with a stall team it is not very hard to keep everything at a healthy amount, obviously the switch in is not going to have a hard time surviving unless you're running stuff like Houndoom who has butter physical defense
Doublade isn't bad, its almost as good as Aegislash at sweeping with shadow sneak alone.
Its "Assault best" Eviolite defense let it shrug off SE physical attacks like EQ and knock off relatively easily, while setting up, very few things can take a +4 shadow sneak, and you would be surprised how many physical attackers let that happen.
Being the only thing outside of Maggron bulky enough to even think about surviving a Super effective V-create or Flare Blitz deserves some credit, and it goes to show how little non-stab EQ and Knock offs (which are literally everywhere) will do to him.
Not to mention with Blissey around every single special attacker outside Keldeo (if it comes back), Reuniclus and a the sub players are instantly and easily walled, making doublades soft sp.def less of an issue.
I know doublade has its downsides, I'm not trying to say its perfect by any means, its just example that it pairs very well with Blissey, and I know for a fact it is not the only thing that does this. but it does wall some of her biggest issues. And Uses the opportunity well to easily sweep weakened offensively based teams.
Bissey is obviously not the second coming of Kangaskhan but I feel it still has the potential to shift the tier very heavily because for the simple reason that Chansey was still very resilient and her wishes were still a large issue even without the Eviolite. While the only thing that has really weakened Chansey this gen is the fact that knock off got a very large buff and IMO was the only reason she had any business in UU to begin with.
I had no problem keeping Chansey healthy when she was legal, the teams I made with her were practically invulnerable, Blissey while not being as bulky does has less demand for healing due to being able to carry around leftovers. Lets not forget how much of an issue Chansey was even WITHOUT her Eviolite, Blissey is all that and more. I genuinely think she is going to cause the same issue Chansey did. Of course don't ban her right away, but I would say she deserves to be on a potentially broken list
with a stall team it is not very hard to keep everything at a healthy amount, obviously the switch in is not going to have a hard time surviving unless you're running stuff like Houndoom who has butter physical defense
Doublade isn't bad, its almost as good as Aegislash at sweeping with shadow sneak alone.
Its "Assault best" Eviolite defense let it shrug off SE physical attacks like EQ and knock off relatively easily, while setting up, very few things can take a +4 shadow sneak, and you would be surprised how many physical attackers let that happen.
Being the only thing outside of Maggron bulky enough to even think about surviving a Super effective V-create or Flare Blitz deserves some credit, and it goes to show how little non-stab EQ and Knock offs (which are literally everywhere) will do to him.
Not to mention with Blissey around every single special attacker outside Keldeo (if it comes back), Reuniclus and a the sub players are instantly and easily walled, making doublades soft sp.def less of an issue.
I know doublade has its downsides, I'm not trying to say its perfect by any means, its just example that it pairs very well with Blissey, and I know for a fact it is not the only thing that does this. but it does wall some of her biggest issues. And Uses the opportunity well to easily sweep weakened offensively based teams.
Bissey is obviously not the second coming of Kangaskhan but I feel it still has the potential to shift the tier very heavily because for the simple reason that Chansey was still very resilient and her wishes were still a large issue even without the Eviolite. While the only thing that has really weakened Chansey this gen is the fact that knock off got a very large buff and IMO was the only reason she had any business in UU to begin with.
Just for the record, I haven't seen Doublade do much work. The only time I would consider it even remotely viable was when Hawlucha was around, and that's if you lack Zapdos or a Slowbro (Zapdos being UU at the time).
Realistically, I do not think wish passes is going to work often. Florges, Umbreon, and Vapoeron already have a tough time, and all three of these Mons actually have an offense presence. I am not saying Blissey is trash, but it falls under Giant Luvdisk, it can't do damage. It is basically set up fodder for CroCune, one of the best special sweepers in the tier. Blissey requires just as much team support as you guys make her out to give to her own team. Because of this, I do not see Blissey being a huge pain in the ass compared to Chansey (Who I think is better on stall).
Just my 2cents. If you guys don't want it and it gets banned, more special sweepers for me.
Realistically, I do not think wish passes is going to work often. Florges, Umbreon, and Vapoeron already have a tough time, and all three of these Mons actually have an offense presence. I am not saying Blissey is trash, but it falls under Giant Luvdisk, it can't do damage. It is basically set up fodder for CroCune, one of the best special sweepers in the tier. Blissey requires just as much team support as you guys make her out to give to her own team. Because of this, I do not see Blissey being a huge pain in the ass compared to Chansey (Who I think is better on stall).
Just my 2cents. If you guys don't want it and it gets banned, more special sweepers for me.
I used Chansey extensively as well, and it was a great Pokemon that I enjoyed using. Keeping her at high health (i.e. over 60% if possible) was always one of my priorities, but it was by no means easy to keep her on high health. Even if an opponent *only* deals 40% per turn to Chansey, it can take numerous turns of Softboiled spam before you get into "safe" range to be able to pass a Wish, and there can be all sorts of mind games going on. If you get cocky and go for a Wish early, you'll be left with a low HP Chansey which struggles to switch in so easily later on.
It was often very obvious what you were going to wish-pass to, and the opponent would usually switch in the appropriate Pokemon on the turn you use Wish, which often lead to me having to just keep Chansey in to accept its own Wish, as the recipient would have fainted. It can be challenging to heal up a Pokemon without having to sacrifice Chansey (and if you do, you may as well just use something with Healing Wish), you need to remove the appropriate opposing Pokemon to pull it off successfully, meaning you often have to wait until later in the match.
Chansey was amazing, don't get me wrong, but it couldn't pass wishes, whilst keeping itself healthy, as effortlessly as people would think. I remember in a lot of matches with the pressure the opponent was putting on Chansey and its team-mates, it was almost impossible to fit a status move or an SToss in. I can only imagine Blissey will not be as good, and will probably play more similarly to Florges in many cases with its Wish/Protect/Leftovers moveset. I don't think a Wish/Softboiled Blissey would be anywhere near as threatening as its Chansey counterpart, as Blissey can't Softboiled spam against as much of the metagame as Chansey can.
a lot of the soft-boiled struggle is cured with leftovers in conjunction with wish and protect. You'll find it much easier to stay in the green with Blissey (assuming you don't casually push her in front of a physical truck), every switch in, 1-turn of hazards do 6% less to her than they would to Chansey because of leftovers recover which cuts a single spike or SR damage by half. And honestly if you let your opponent riddle you with spikes and rocks and toxic spikes. With the new defog and things like foresight hitmontop around, then you wouldn't really be doing well without Blissey either.
The main reason why Chansey was not used in OU as much in gen 5 is because weather was everywhere and the residual damage wore her out, blissey was desired for passive recovery.
Can I also mention one of the easiest ways to deal with a cleric is to status it, pressuring it to waste its 8 PP move. You can't do this to blobs because they have natural cure. On top of giant wishes they also casually outpace every other cleric and wish passer in the tier.
The same applies here but UU does not have things terrakion, keldeo (for now) conkelder. or the many megas that can easily OHKO her without the STAB SE move.
And it being obvious that you're going to wish-pass is irrelevant. There is no prediction in the opponents side because if you have something that can survive anything the opposing Pokemon can dish out, you CAN switch in and will most likely be at full HP from the wish. If a Mienshao is threatening my Blissey, sending in my mega Manectric that would take as much as 90.7% from a high jump kick is a good idea, because the wish will come in and even though the opponent used the BEST possible move to hit my mega man, I am still at an advantage, and at full health ready to take ANOTHER 90% hit if need-be.
The main reason why Chansey was not used in OU as much in gen 5 is because weather was everywhere and the residual damage wore her out, blissey was desired for passive recovery.
Can I also mention one of the easiest ways to deal with a cleric is to status it, pressuring it to waste its 8 PP move. You can't do this to blobs because they have natural cure. On top of giant wishes they also casually outpace every other cleric and wish passer in the tier.
The same applies here but UU does not have things terrakion, keldeo (for now) conkelder. or the many megas that can easily OHKO her without the STAB SE move.
And it being obvious that you're going to wish-pass is irrelevant. There is no prediction in the opponents side because if you have something that can survive anything the opposing Pokemon can dish out, you CAN switch in and will most likely be at full HP from the wish. If a Mienshao is threatening my Blissey, sending in my mega Manectric that would take as much as 90.7% from a high jump kick is a good idea, because the wish will come in and even though the opponent used the BEST possible move to hit my mega man, I am still at an advantage, and at full health ready to take ANOTHER 90% hit if need-be.
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Taking as much as 90.7% is a really shitty fucking idea when Rocks means you get outright KO'd and that Wish meant jack shit. You are forgetting that all these high-powered attackers in UU (arguably more so than in OU, since the 2nd and 4th most powerful one-turn non-suicidal moves in the game are currently UU) put unholy amounts of pressure on every single switch-in. Chansey's mixed bulk meant if could freely Wish+Seismic Toss half the fucking tier, tossing in a Protect as needed and stall out really powerful physical attackers it had no business staying in on. Blissey cannot manage that same feat, and a very small amount of prior damage means even passing a Wish isn't guaranteed. Part of Mega Manectric's appeal is his ability to act as a pivot, meaning he WILL be taking residual damage over the course of the game as well as rogue hits, and unless you always keep him at 100% health on every switch-in (good luck with that), then I hope you play those Wishes very very well because casually switching him in on something as devastating as Reckless High Jump Kick because "lol 367 HP Wish" is NOT grounds for keeping Blissey out of the tier.
Mega man was just an example to show that nearly anything can switch in with wish support, no it wont always be mega man and it wont always be mienshao, The problem is you're comparing blissey to chansey constantly, which is obviously too much for UU instead of seeing how badly it outclasses every single thing that does the same job. is practically immune to status and can even act as a status absorber with natual cure and prevents being set up fodder against most things with seismic toss. Which is much more than you can say about any other wish passing cleric in the tier.
I'm not saying blissey does not even deserve testing and we should throw her out right away, but I'm concerned the gap between wish passing clerics like umbreon, florges and blissey is going to devastate the tier and I think shes being drastically underrated. Her bulk in OU shows just how viable she is as a special wall (and in many cases a mixed wall) She is sure to outclass anything we have here by a mile. While Umbreon may have more appealing physical defense, it does not take it very far in UU anyway, with crazy physical attackers like mienshao, victini and darmanitan around, physical tanking is best left to something that specializes in it anyway. And please don't pretend that umbreon's weakness to u-turn doesn't hurt.
And at least florges and umbreon don't make every special attacker irrelevant. Blissey walls the whole special side of the curb with the only exceptions being 101 HP subs and ghost subs (although she still walls them pretty effectively) and special attacks that hit her physical defense. Umbreon has to at least grit its teeth at Blastoise and it's aura sphere. And the same is true for florges with nidoking (Except she dies where umbreon just can't switch in), but Blissey just completely bests these guys. which is really saying something considering both of the competition is completely specially invested which she has not even a smidgen in. I should also add that blissey's physical defense surpasses florges doing so. And the lack of fighting special attacks makes her a much better special wall.
I'm not saying blissey does not even deserve testing and we should throw her out right away, but I'm concerned the gap between wish passing clerics like umbreon, florges and blissey is going to devastate the tier and I think shes being drastically underrated. Her bulk in OU shows just how viable she is as a special wall (and in many cases a mixed wall) She is sure to outclass anything we have here by a mile. While Umbreon may have more appealing physical defense, it does not take it very far in UU anyway, with crazy physical attackers like mienshao, victini and darmanitan around, physical tanking is best left to something that specializes in it anyway. And please don't pretend that umbreon's weakness to u-turn doesn't hurt.
And at least florges and umbreon don't make every special attacker irrelevant. Blissey walls the whole special side of the curb with the only exceptions being 101 HP subs and ghost subs (although she still walls them pretty effectively) and special attacks that hit her physical defense. Umbreon has to at least grit its teeth at Blastoise and it's aura sphere. And the same is true for florges with nidoking (Except she dies where umbreon just can't switch in), but Blissey just completely bests these guys. which is really saying something considering both of the competition is completely specially invested which she has not even a smidgen in. I should also add that blissey's physical defense surpasses florges doing so. And the lack of fighting special attacks makes her a much better special wall.
The fact of the matter is that we DO have a lot of Pokemon that use Psyshock, so saying that "Well, she makes everything else irrelevant," doesn't mean anything. Moreover, we really NEED something that can wall Nidoking. As of right now, the only switch-ins are Mew and Cresselia, and those have their own problems thanks to being pure Psychic-types. Florges has a niche that Blissey can't fill in being immune to Dragon-type attacks, so if we see a return from basically any Dragon that went BL I guarantee you that Blissey will face competition in that regard. Umbreon has Foul Play to fuck up Ghost-types, if that's such an issue for Blissey.
Blissey is good, no shit. It's been OU since its introduction, but it is not as powerful as you're making it out to be.
Blissey is good, no shit. It's been OU since its introduction, but it is not as powerful as you're making it out to be.
I think the only thing about the Mienshao HJK example is that if Blissey uses Wish while Mienshao comes in, it's really hard for Mienshao to just launch off a HJK straight off as there's the possibility that Blissey will just Protect on the HJK. While the safer move would be to go for Stone Edge/whatever, that'd be the opportunity for Manectric to come in and grab the Wish (though as bays mentioned, have fun keeping manectric that healthy to tank a hjk)
Even so I don't really think Blissey is anywhere near broken than Chansey can possibly be: even factoring in Leftovers it has been demonstrated that Chansey is significantly bulkier than Blissey: ergo, it's easier to pressure Blissey into a corner than Chansey.
Even so I don't really think Blissey is anywhere near broken than Chansey can possibly be: even factoring in Leftovers it has been demonstrated that Chansey is significantly bulkier than Blissey: ergo, it's easier to pressure Blissey into a corner than Chansey.
remains to be seen, I still think the issue will exist due to the giant wishes.
I already dished all I could about chansey, she still walled a ridiculous portion of the tier even without her eviolite.
if we need a Nidoking wall so badly why was it not considered "Potentially broken" Jeeze zygarde has way more solid switch-ins than that. Throw Nidoking in the cage if we absolutely need Blissey to wall it.
Also: Blissey is 2HKO'd by physical sets
252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 372-438 (52.1 - 61.3%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
And before you laugh, physical Nidoking Does not sacrifice much of anything to be honest, it has thunder, ice, fire punch and sucker punch! which can prove exceptionally useful against faster threats and give him so breathing room to run adamant so that he -can- 2HKO Blissey.
Yeah it does sacrifice a bit damage but who wants to run special attackers with Blissey running around? The only real downside is the 6% less damage you get from punches that you do with beams (Sucker punch allowing you to go adamant more than makes up for that btw.) and being more afraid of burns. Which I knew mew whips around like its nothing but its really not hard to avoid burns or not be subjected to them to begin with, especially when everyone thinks your a special attacker. Also Mew has the very cheeky Megahorn to look out for on physical nidoking.
I already dished all I could about chansey, she still walled a ridiculous portion of the tier even without her eviolite.
if we need a Nidoking wall so badly why was it not considered "Potentially broken" Jeeze zygarde has way more solid switch-ins than that. Throw Nidoking in the cage if we absolutely need Blissey to wall it.
Also: Blissey is 2HKO'd by physical sets
252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 372-438 (52.1 - 61.3%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
And before you laugh, physical Nidoking Does not sacrifice much of anything to be honest, it has thunder, ice, fire punch and sucker punch! which can prove exceptionally useful against faster threats and give him so breathing room to run adamant so that he -can- 2HKO Blissey.
Yeah it does sacrifice a bit damage but who wants to run special attackers with Blissey running around? The only real downside is the 6% less damage you get from punches that you do with beams (Sucker punch allowing you to go adamant more than makes up for that btw.) and being more afraid of burns. Which I knew mew whips around like its nothing but its really not hard to avoid burns or not be subjected to them to begin with, especially when everyone thinks your a special attacker. Also Mew has the very cheeky Megahorn to look out for on physical nidoking.
You're forgetting as well that the premiere defoggers themselves have moved up as well, e.g. Latias and Zapdos. Otherwise Kokoloko already summed up my gripe with wish, and I've already said it before. You haven't addressed the fact that it won't be any easier to pass wishes around be it because of hazards or offensive presence of the other team people know better than to just do nothing when an inevitable wish is on the way, and many people above already point this out. Regardless, I could be wrong but Chansey's wishes weren't exactly on the top of the list when many wanted it suspected.
honestly, if i have to explain how a fucking game actually plays out in reality as opposed to theorymon i'm going to start handing out infractions.
Shiny Minun i get that in your fantasy world, blissey can keep itself /and/ its teammates healthy 100% of the time and there's never any hazards on your side of the field and full hazards on your opponents, but that just isn't reality. not even the best players in the game can achieve perfect battle conditions on any sort of regular basis, no matter how bad their opponent is. so enough with the theorymon please.
Shiny Minun i get that in your fantasy world, blissey can keep itself /and/ its teammates healthy 100% of the time and there's never any hazards on your side of the field and full hazards on your opponents, but that just isn't reality. not even the best players in the game can achieve perfect battle conditions on any sort of regular basis, no matter how bad their opponent is. so enough with the theorymon please.
Passing wishes is harder said than done. The incoming Pokemon has to be able to take a hit so it could actually get the wish. The only relatively 'dangerous' thing about Blissey is the toxic/twave really. I don't really like the idea of Blissey in UU either but it doesn't sound so broken and it can definitely be dealt with.
Also, about defoggers, you guys are forgetting UU is the tier with the most spinners lol.
Also, about defoggers, you guys are forgetting UU is the tier with the most spinners lol.
kokoloko I'm never said hazards and other conditions don't happen, I even made a point that Blissey deals with hazards slightly better than Chansey does. These are things that our current popular wish passers, umbreon and florges deal with and they're not incredibly terrible and wish passing isn't the hardest thing in the world to pull off with them.
I'm not trying to start a revolution here, I just don't think it is a good idea to ignore Blissey and just assume she is not going to be any issue. But I'll simmer down till I can run her in UU, and see first hand if my speculations are correct.
I'm not trying to start a revolution here, I just don't think it is a good idea to ignore Blissey and just assume she is not going to be any issue. But I'll simmer down till I can run her in UU, and see first hand if my speculations are correct.
Well, nobody's saying Blissey isn't going to be a serious defensive threat Shiny Minun. Being able to take on most special attackers in the tier is really dang cool for defensive and stall teams. But she simply can't stay in on many physical threats, which is why Chansey was such a major pain as it could usually take on physical attackers that couldn't hit her super effectively. Blissey is going to be annoying in that you can't sweep with most special attackers until she's weakened or removed. But physical attackers without a Fighting-type STAB aren't going to be punished like Chansey could do to them, that's all. She can keep herself alive, but she will have a harder time of keeping herself AND her teammates alive at the same time. Chansey could basically do this against every special attacker and quite a few weaker physical attackers as well. Blissey doesn't have the same leeway against physical attackers, which will make it harder for her to stay alive as she passes Wishes.
Although I currently don't have enough information to say one way or another, it's important to note that when Chansey was in the Gen 6 Metagame, there were also a slew of threats that don't exist now. The most important of these would probably be things that can set up on Blissey/Chansey's face (Latias, Zygarde) and things that do crazy damage to it (Hawlucha, Crawdaunt, Bisharp, Weavile). Given that Chansey was considered broken even with the presence of these threats, I find it hard to believe that Blissey will be easy to deal with given that these things are gone.
At the very least, we'll see a significant tier shift back towards a stall-oriented metagame, with balanced/HO teams being much more pressured as strong fighting types (or hell, even dual fighting cores) are going to be all the rage.
I guess I'm not as worried about blissey's real impact on the tier from a brokenness point of view (I actually never considered chansey tierbreaking, to be honest), as much as I think it'll massively restrict teambuilding. At the end of the day, even if you choose not to counter blissey with pure force, she's still going to be an absolute asshole to deal with, and I think the negative impact she might have on the tier could outweigh the fact that she's potentially not *technically* broken.
EDIT: I guess this is sort of theorymon but at the end of the day I don't know how you expect me to use real examples to discuss a pokemon who hasn't been in the metagame.
At the very least, we'll see a significant tier shift back towards a stall-oriented metagame, with balanced/HO teams being much more pressured as strong fighting types (or hell, even dual fighting cores) are going to be all the rage.
I guess I'm not as worried about blissey's real impact on the tier from a brokenness point of view (I actually never considered chansey tierbreaking, to be honest), as much as I think it'll massively restrict teambuilding. At the end of the day, even if you choose not to counter blissey with pure force, she's still going to be an absolute asshole to deal with, and I think the negative impact she might have on the tier could outweigh the fact that she's potentially not *technically* broken.
EDIT: I guess this is sort of theorymon but at the end of the day I don't know how you expect me to use real examples to discuss a pokemon who hasn't been in the metagame.
Is there anything other than Snorlax, Umbreon, P2, and Specially Defensive Mew that can switch in on the Nidos? I feel like they are so much better this gen for some reason.
You have obviously seen my QD pass to nidoking a few too many times mwahahahaha...
Focus blast can decimate all of those except for mew, which is still decimated by other attacks. The problem is he can be outsped pretty easily as B85 is nothing to write home about. If you can predict correctly, they can easily be outsped. That aside, there is a reason they were famed as amazing wall breakers.
Mismagius can switch in reasonably well considering she's immune to EP and focus miss, while ghost resists poison so she cannot be 2HKO'd from sludge wave. Unfortunately, she is almost always 2HKO'd by ice beam if SR is up, while in return
252 SpA Mismagius Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Nidoking: 144-169 (47.3 - 55.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
I guess you could run a modified EV spread to avoid a certain 2HKO from ice beam, or use pain split, but all the knock off/pursuiting hurts regardless.
SpDef bulky waters can avoid the 2hko provided nidoking does not run thunderbolt. I think that list would include Slowking, Jellicent and milotic at least, but they all need heavy SpDef investment, which makes checking fire types not possible.
Cresselia is also an option, but as you can tell, I'm really scraping the bottom of the barrel now.
EDIT: While I think of it, the thing I would find most annoying about blissey is that while physical attackers can easily deal with her, the issue would be getting said physical attacker in safely without risking toxic or thunder wave. Thunder wave especially is more annoying because of the frailty or weaknesses that physical attackers have which leaves them more vulnerable due to T-wave. I don't think blissey will be broken, but I seriously doubt she'll be that easy to play around as people think.
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Cresselia is a solid mon that is the hardest counter for nidos, but it also beats every fighter barring heracross (even scrafty loses cause moonblast) as well as pretty much every dragon. As for blissey, it's really not that broken because it's setup fodder for sooooo many things, like mew, heracross, hazard setters and it actually fails to beat special sweepers with rest
Physical variant messes all of these. The boost that Nidoking got to its attack really shouldn't be ignored. Adamant Megahorn capable of 2HKO on P.def mew, 75% on umbreon.
Superpower can nail P2 but can't deal with recover but barely needs it to keep snorlax from switching in.
Cresselia is really the only rock solid counter capable of switching into both physical and special sets, far as I can see.
Reaching for Cresselia isn't scrapping the bottom of the barrel imo. In fact, I'd argue to say that Cresselia is an even better answer to the Nidos than Mew is, simply because it doesn't even give two fucks for Megahorn since it only needs slight investment in Special Defense to be safe against Sludge Wave / Shadow Ball and can dedicate the rest to physical bulk for Fighting-types and random ass Megahorns from Nidoking. Observe:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 84 SpD Cresselia: 166-198 (37.4 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery. Sludge Wave is doing worse.
4 Atk Life Orb Nidoking Megahorn vs. 248 HP / 176+ Def Cresselia: 156-185 (35.2 - 41.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery. Yep, doesn't care.
The best part about Cresselia is Levitate. This means that it can potentially get a free switch-in via Earth Power, but even then, Cress won't have to worry about Spikes wearing it down too fast, unlike Mew, Umbreon, and P2. Cress is legit. Maybe not the best bulky Psychic-type in the tier with Mew and Slowbro around, but she definitely has some very valuable uses.
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 84 SpD Cresselia: 166-198 (37.4 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery. Sludge Wave is doing worse.
4 Atk Life Orb Nidoking Megahorn vs. 248 HP / 176+ Def Cresselia: 156-185 (35.2 - 41.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery. Yep, doesn't care.
The best part about Cresselia is Levitate. This means that it can potentially get a free switch-in via Earth Power, but even then, Cress won't have to worry about Spikes wearing it down too fast, unlike Mew, Umbreon, and P2. Cress is legit. Maybe not the best bulky Psychic-type in the tier with Mew and Slowbro around, but she definitely has some very valuable uses.
I love cress to death, but isn't only having one safe switch in an issue? I mean Zygarde had a healthy list and it was still considered potentially broken. Even with all the different sets there was still slowbro and cress that could jump over every set pretty much.
I'm just curious why nidoking has not been considered for this, considering cresselia is the only safe switch in we can really find. I guess it's cause he can't set up and become a OHKO machine, but I could be wrong.
Even cresselia gets risky with the physical sets that can breach 50% on max p.def cress
252+ Atk Life Orb Nidoking Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 203-239 (45.7 - 53.8%) -- 94.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
I'm just curious why nidoking has not been considered for this, considering cresselia is the only safe switch in we can really find. I guess it's cause he can't set up and become a OHKO machine, but I could be wrong.
Even cresselia gets risky with the physical sets that can breach 50% on max p.def cress
252+ Atk Life Orb Nidoking Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 203-239 (45.7 - 53.8%) -- 94.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
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flygon comes in on anything but ice beam, rotom-h on anything but sludge wave, vaporeon beats all the good sets cause they don't run thunderbolt, azelf is a pretty good offensive check, and uxie is a cool niche mon that can check them a couple times. umbreon wins againt non focus blast/megahorn sets.
then there's literaly anything faster that can ohko, ad that list is huge. nidoking's a slow wallbreaker, its supposed to be near impossible to switch into. if you're having trouble with wallbreakers maybe you should try a different approach to teambuilding.
then there's literaly anything faster that can ohko, ad that list is huge. nidoking's a slow wallbreaker, its supposed to be near impossible to switch into. if you're having trouble with wallbreakers maybe you should try a different approach to teambuilding.
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