Gengar GP [0/2]

alexwolf

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I am fine with no main set for Specs, but OO is too low for its efficiency imo. Set Details of the LO set sounds better, if anyone else doesn't have a problem with this.

Put me in group that doesn't see much merit behind Scarf Gengar. It fails to revenge kill a ton of offensive Pokemon, thanks to vulnerability to priority and lack of power, which sucks big time.
 
I am fine with no main set for Specs, but OO is too low for its efficiency imo. Set Details of the LO set sounds better, if anyone else doesn't have a problem with this.
If by the Life Orb set do you mean the Destiny Bond set? If Destiny Bond is the most important attack, putting Specs under there wouldn't make sense imo since the two would have to play differently.
 
For the first set I'd kinda like to push for 100 SDef EVs, with a spread of 156 SAtk / 100 SDef / 252 Spe.

It's just, afaik you don't lose any notable 2HKOs with Shadow Ball (252 HP Skarm is still 2HKOd), but these EVs prevent Clefable's Moonblast and Mega Venusaur's Giga Drain from breaking your Substitute, which in my experience has been of huge value when facing stall teams with the Sub, SB, WoW, Taunt moveset (Taunt has been sooo good, Id push for first slash to be honest, as it also makes for a superb lead vs Deoxys-D offense).
 

CrashinBoomBang

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Since Gengar's main job with that set is breaking stall, I second both that EV spread and moving Taunt in front of Sludge Wave. Taunt is ridiculously useful in way too many situations to list, especially in a matchup against Stall, so it probably has way more utility than Sludge Wave (especially if you update the EV spread since it instantly makes Clefable, one of the mons hit especially hard my Sludge Wave, less of an issue).
 
Quick nitpick: a spread with 100 SpD EVs still leaves Clefable with a small chance to break Gengar's Substitute.

0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 100 SpD Gengar: 54-65 (20.6 - 24.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Black Sludge recovery
(54, 55, 56, 57, 57, 58, 59, 60, 60, 60, 61, 62, 63, 63, 64, 65)

0 HP Gengar makes 65 HP Substitutes, which Clefable can break 1/16 of the time. 108 SpD EVs fixes this problem against 0 SpA Clefable, but you might want to bump it up to 112 SpD EVs for 4 SpA versions, just to be safe.
 
Actually 28 HP / 148 SAtk / 80 SDef / 252 Spd achieves this with an extra point in SAtk but when your only running 148 SAtk an extra point is rather irrelevant and it just makes it more complicated

4 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 28 HP / 80 SpD Gengar: 56-66 (20.8 - 24.6%) -- guaranteed 5HKO (56, 57, 57, 58, 59, 60, 60, 60, 61, 62, 63, 63, 64, 65, 66, 66)
With 28 HP it makes 67 HP subs
 

CyclicCompound

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Actually 28 HP / 148 SAtk / 80 SDef / 252 Spd achieves this with an extra point in SAtk but when your only running 148 SAtk an extra point is rather irrelevant and it just makes it more complicated

4 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 28 HP / 80 SpD Gengar: 56-66 (20.8 - 24.6%) -- guaranteed 5HKO (56, 57, 57, 58, 59, 60, 60, 60, 61, 62, 63, 63, 64, 65, 66, 66)
With 28 HP it makes 67 HP subs
Every point counts... use this spread.
 
In the Utility Check set it talks about Focus Blast being "very very important" when it isn't even slashed. The wording probably needs to be fixed for that.
 

Ash Borer

I've heard they're short of room in hell
yes I was meaning to resolve that. It is actually quite important in Gengar is too important to be pursuit trapped. Wisping ttar doesnt prevent it from trapping you, but it does essentially take it out of the equation or make it set up bait.
 

TheManlyLadybug

Banned deucer.
Mention Sludge Bomb in either OO or Moves for the 30% poison chance, but make sure to mention that it is less powerful than Sludge Wave and doesn't get past Chesnaught.
 

Aragorn the King

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Disable can be mentioned in other options as sub disable work well together in a set
Utility Attacker
########
name: Utility Attacker
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Shadow Ball
move 3: Will-O-Wisp
move 4: Taunt / Sludge Wave / Disable
ability: Levitate
item: Black Sludge
evs: 28 HP / 148 SAtk / 80 SDef / 252 Spd
nature: Timid

Moves
========

Substitute allows Gengar to play around its poor bulk using its typing's defensive attributes advantageously by forcing the opponent to attack to deal with Gengar, especially in Combination with Will-O-Wisp, this results in many free substitutes on Pokemon such as Chansey, Clefable, Gliscor, Venusaur, Ferrothorn and Amoonguss. Substitute is also necessary for Disable to function at all, and even against Pokemon that can defeat Gengar with attacks Substitute can block status moves, giving Gengar free turns. Substitute also provides counterplay to Sucker Punch use for Gengar. Shadow Ball is Gengar's STAB of choice, its autonomous neutral coverage is unrivaled, and it does pretty solid damage to most Pokemon, letting Gengar keep the pressure on. Will-O-Wisp is a fantastic move in general, on Gengar it is very valuable for pressuring defensive Pokemon, as well as severely crippling typical checks and counters, especially Pursuit, Shadow Sneak and Sucker Punch users. Will-O-Wisp is almost always a great way to take advantage of a free turn and improves Gengars proficiency against offensive teams. Taunt's ability to stop the opponent from phazing out Gengar's substitutes, healing, setting entry hazards or using Defog turn Gengar is a powerful stallbreaker. Against Pokemon Gengar cant really damage that much while behind a sub such as Chansey, Sylveon, specially defnesive Hippowdon, specially defensive Heatran and other extra resilient special walls Taunt disrupts these Pokemon and makes them easy to switch into, or completely beatable for Gengar. Sludge Wave forms reasonably good coverage with Shadow Ball, and gives Gengar a nice power boost against neutral targets, as well as acting as a potent Fairy-type slayer. Disable disallows the opposing Pokemon from using the move they last used for 3 turns. This allows Gengar to prey upon opposing pokemon that rely on just one move to do significant damage to Gengar, as well as completely shutting down slower choiced attackers. Dropping Will-o-Wisp decreases Gengar's effectiveness against offensive teams however Taunt and Disable in Tandem are a nightmare to stall preventing the opponent from healing, or clearing hazards while Disable renders the opponent unable to damage Gengar at all with mono attack sets many stall Pokemon feature. Focus Blast forms perfect neutral coverage alongside Shadow Ball and is a very useful tool that lets Gengar patch up a weakness to Dark-types that attempt to beat Gengar with Sucker Punch, Pursuit, or just by virtue of their typing in general. It can be used in the last moveslot. Though Tyranitar and Bisharp are easily burned with WoW deterring them, it does not prevent Gengar from getting KO'd in the process. If your team values Gengar to the point where sacking it is unacceptable Focus Blast should be used.
 

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