Gorebyss [0/3]

[Seven Lions]

Overview
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• Access to one of the best boosting moves in the game, Shell Smash, along with the ability to Baton Pass these boosts to a teammate.
• Decent base 114 Special Attack allowing it to use the Shell Smash boosts itself.
• 55/105/75 defenses along with it's pure Water-typing allows it to take common priority moves such as Bullet Punch and Aqua Jet.
• It is fairly slow and even after a boost and can be exposed by various revenge killers such as Rotom-W.

SmashPass
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name: Smash Pass
move 1: Shell Smash
move 2: Baton Pass
move 3: Hydro Pump / Surf
move 4: Ice Beam / Substitute
ability: Swift Swim
item: White Herb / Lum Berry
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Timid

Moves
========

• Shell Smash is a powerful boosting move that any sweeper would love to have. It's the focal point of the set boosting Attack, Special Attack and Speed by +2 while decreasing defenses by -1.
• Baton Pass is what makes this set so dangerous allowing it to pass the boosts off to a powerful sweeper.
• Hydro Pump is a powerful STAB move serving as a nuke with the Shell Smash boost even without investment.
• Surf is a 100% accurate STAB move at the cost of reduced power as opposed to Hydro Pump
• Ice Beam is a coverage option allowing it to hit Grass-types such as Chesnaught, and Celebi hard.
• Substitute is a great move allowing Gorebyss and the receiver the ability to block harmful status although the nerf to Substitute makes this option less feasible.
• Ice Beam allows Gorebyss to smash Dragons such as Noivern, Garchomp, and Salamence to name a few.

Set Details
========

• Max Speed EVs allows Gorebyss to outspeed almost the whole unboosted metagame after a Shell Smash boost.
• Rest of the EVs are put into HP allowing Gorebyss to take most neutral hits and even some super-effective hits in an attempt to pass.
• White Herb allows Gorebyss to remove the stat drops from Shell Smash while Lum Berry removes crippling status such as paralysis which makes Gorebyss' job of passing a lot harder.

Usage Tips
========

• Gorebyss should come in on a wall that cannot threaten it such as Blissey although it should be wary of Thunder Wave if not using Lum Berry and proceed to Shell Smash. It should then pass the boosts to a sweeper.
• If nothing is able to stomach it's STAB move of choice or Ice Beam then Gorebyss should proceed to sweep.

Team Options
========

• Teammates who appreciate Shell Smash boosts should be partnered with Gorebyss; Mega-Garchomp, and Aegislash pair up well as they can sweep teams with +2 boosts.
• Partners such as Espeon are nice as they can block phazing attempts from Roar and Whirlwind while having access to Baton Pass themselves so they can continue to pass to the intended target.

Other Options
========

• There aren't many other options for Gorebyss. It can abuse the boosts itself with Life Orb in an attempt to sweep, but it's better off passing to a teammate who can more sufficiently abuse the boosts. Gorebyss should shift HP EVs into Special Attack if they decide to take this route.

Checks and Counters
========

• Phazing: Phazing effectively ruins Gorebyss' ability to pass as the receiver will just be phazed out as it acquires the boost. Team that pack a phazer must watch out for Magic Bouncers such as Xatu, Espeon, or Mega-Absol, and Dragon Tail users must beware if Gorebyss sets up a Sub as it most likely will not break it.
• Hard hitting Scarfers: Choice Scarfed Pokemon that can hit hard such as Choice Scarf Latios can KO Gorebyss with Stealth Rock. Even if Gorebyss acquires a Shell Smash boost, it still will not be able to outspeed Scarf Latios.
• Haze: Haze removes all stat boosts which stops Gorebyss from doing much of anything other than passing a potential sub.
• Taunt: Taunt shuts down Gorebyss from doing much of anything aside from switching and spamming Hydro Pump.

 

[CyclicCompound]

In the overview, I would definitely make mention of Smeargle as a smashpasser and Omastar as a Shell Smash sweeper, both of which directly compete with Gorebyss for its role.

 

[PenguinGengar]

I wouldn't put that Ice Beam hits Mega-Venusaur really hard because with Thick Fat, Ice moves are neutral on it.

 

[trc]

I think that you can merge the sets, slashing offensive moves after BP and putting the offensive EV spread in Set Details to be used in an offensive role, mainly because I don't believe it is that effective of a sweeper in itself on its own, and has nothing over Cloyster, Omastar, or Barbaracle aside from being more specially oriented. As a SmashPasser, it competes with Smeargle. However, by doing both it offers something that neither can do, so it can lure in checks for who it presumably will pass to, and then attack itself. Plus, they aren't really different enough to merit two sets. Consider this:

Shell Smash
########
name: Shell Smash
move 1: Shell Smash
move 2: Hydro Pump / Surf
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Baton Pass / Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Grass
ability: Swift Swim
item: White Herb / Lum Berry
EVs: 252 HP / 88 SpD / 168 Spe
nature: Calm

Then in Moves section:

• Substitute

Then in Set Details:

• Alternate EV Spread
• Alternate Nature
• Life Orb

 

[Jukain]

don't even bother with shell smash sweeper, bp should be the only set

 

[indian]

In the overview, I would definitely make mention of Smeargle as a smashpasser and Omastar as a Shell Smash sweeper, both of which directly compete with Gorebyss for its role.

agreeing as smeargle can spore something and get better set up chances although it is a total taunt bait unlike gorebyss.
mention rain support in team options as it allows it to outspee common scarfers which it cant even at+2.

 

[CyclicCompound]

Just wondering, why is Lum Berry slashed as an option over White Herb? Yeah, paralysis sucks, but seeing as Gorebyss is almost always the passer and hopefully not often the sweeper, paralysis shouldn't be that much of an issue. The receiver should be holding Lum Berry, if at all, and sweeps shouldn't really be attempted if something with priority like Klefki is still alive. Of course, sometimes that's unavoidable, so Lum Berry still has some degree of merit.

However, I think White Herb is far more important of an item, so important that it shouldn't be slashed with anything. There are many relevant calcs involving popular revenge killers to show:

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. -1 252 HP / 0 Def Gorebyss: 339-399 (107.9 - 127%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. -1 252 HP / 88+ SpD Gorebyss: 306-362 (97.4 - 115.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. -1 252 HP / 0 Def Gorebyss: 265-313 (84.3 - 99.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Genesect Thunderbolt vs. -1 252 HP / 88+ SpD Gorebyss: 288-340 (91.7 - 108.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. -1 252 HP / 0 Def Gorebyss: 282-333 (89.8 - 106%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. -1 252 HP / 0 Def Gorebyss: 255-301 (81.2 - 95.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Latios Draco Meteor vs. -1 252 HP / 88+ SpD Gorebyss: 330-388 (105 - 123.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. -1 252 HP / 0 Def Gorebyss: 280-331 (89.1 - 105.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

All of these Pokemon outspeed +2 Gorebyss with a Choice Scarf, although Talonflame obviously uses Choice Band.

Every single one of these OHKOs from popular revenge killers can be avoided if White Herb is used, enabling Gorebyss to successfully pass. Rapid Spin/Defog support is not enough, as most of these revenge killers still have a high chance to OHKO Gorebyss without hazards up. The hazards simply act as a guarantee.

So yeah, I would DEFINITELY un-slash Lum Berry, not because it's necessarily a bad choice in itself, but it's a bad choice if White Herb is available. Although being beat by Thundurus and Klefki sucks, it sucks more in my opinion to be beat by all of the above Pokemon.

Also, I'd mention receivers and teammates that can break through Clefable and Quagsire, as Unaware will get in the way of smashpassing.

 

[Burigu]

Is Chesnaught that relevant to be mentioned over Breloom or even AV Tangrowth and Amoonguss? Mega Venusaur isn't hit hard be Ice beam thanks to Thick Fat

 

[Fuzznip]

Se7en Lions

Are you still working on this? You have 24 hours to respond.

 

[Seven Lions]

Oh. Thought I finished this lol

edit: will finish it up right now

 

[CyclicCompound]

Okay, a few pointers:

Overview:
- Stress Baton Pass more (in other words, make sure the reader knows it's the only point to using Gorebyss).
- Mention Smeargle as a source of competition, and explain Gorebyss's advantages (far better bulk, no reliance on Spore, isn't total Taunt bait).
- Make brief mention of some of the Shell Smash users that outclass Gorebyss as a pure sweeper—e.g. Omastar and Barbaracle.
- Make note of some of the downfalls of SmashPass—the support it requires, a great new Unaware user to counter it, and a bulkier and more priority-heavy tier. In other words, the things that make SmashPass rare in this metagame.

The Set Itself:
Remove Lum Berry as a slash.

REASONING (from my post above)

Just wondering, why is Lum Berry slashed as an option over White Herb? Yeah, paralysis sucks, but seeing as Gorebyss is almost always the passer and hopefully not often the sweeper, paralysis shouldn't be that much of an issue. The receiver should be holding Lum Berry, if at all, and sweeps shouldn't really be attempted if something with priority like Klefki is still alive. Of course, sometimes that's unavoidable, so Lum Berry still has some degree of merit.

However, I think White Herb is far more important of an item, so important that it shouldn't be slashed with anything. There are many relevant calcs involving popular revenge killers to show:

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. -1 252 HP / 0 Def Gorebyss: 339-399 (107.9 - 127%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. -1 252 HP / 88+ SpD Gorebyss: 306-362 (97.4 - 115.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. -1 252 HP / 0 Def Gorebyss: 265-313 (84.3 - 99.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Genesect Thunderbolt vs. -1 252 HP / 88+ SpD Gorebyss: 288-340 (91.7 - 108.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. -1 252 HP / 0 Def Gorebyss: 282-333 (89.8 - 106%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. -1 252 HP / 0 Def Gorebyss: 255-301 (81.2 - 95.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Latios Draco Meteor vs. -1 252 HP / 88+ SpD Gorebyss: 330-388 (105 - 123.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. -1 252 HP / 0 Def Gorebyss: 280-331 (89.1 - 105.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

All of these Pokemon outspeed +2 Gorebyss with a Choice Scarf, although Talonflame obviously uses Choice Band.

Every single one of these OHKOs from popular revenge killers can be avoided if White Herb is used, enabling Gorebyss to successfully pass. Rapid Spin/Defog support is not enough, as most of these revenge killers still have a high chance to OHKO Gorebyss without hazards up. The hazards simply act as a guarantee.

So yeah, I would DEFINITELY un-slash Lum Berry, not because it's necessarily a bad choice in itself, but it's a bad choice if White Herb is available. Although being beat by Thundurus and Klefki sucks, it sucks more in my opinion to be beat by all of the above Pokemon.

Also, I'd mention receivers and teammates that can break through Clefable and Quagsire, as Unaware will get in the way of smashpassing.

Not only that, but I find Substitute to be a far more acceptable choice if one needs Lum Berry-like support.

Moves:

Ice Beam is a coverage option allowing it to hit Grass-types such as Chesnaught, and Celebi hard.
Ice Beam allows Gorebyss to smash Dragons such as Noivern, Garchomp, and Salamence to name a few.

- Combine these into one point. I would probably remove Chesnaught and Celebi by mention, but keep Grass-types in general—both are such easy Pokemon to use as BP fodder to successfully get a more powerful sweeper in.

Substitute is a great move allowing Gorebyss and the receiver the ability to block harmful status although the nerf to Substitute makes this option less feasible.

- What "nerf"? If you're referring to sound-based moves bypassing it, this isn't a huge deal for Gorebyss anyway, and Substitute is still a wonderful move for blocking status and making passes 400x easier.

Set Details:

Rest of the EVs are put into HP allowing Gorebyss to take most neutral hits and even some super-effective hits in an attempt to pass.

- I would remove mention of attempting to tank super effective attacks. A lot of them, particularly things like Mega Venusaur's Giga Drain and Thundurus's Thunderbolt, are capable of OHKOing Gorebyss even with max HP investment and White Herb.

Usage Tips:
- This section needs to be fleshed out a lot. There are many more things than Blissey (which should be changed to Chansey) that Gorebyss may attempt to set up on. Furthermore, talk about when this should happen—e.g. early-game, mid-game, late-game—along with any tips to the reader about specific conditions that should be achieved before a sweep is attempted.
- Your last point is a little weird—I'm not sure what you're saying, but the answer isn't necessarily to attack if possible. What the player should be doing is looking for opportunities to pass to a teammate. For example, if the opponent sends in something easily switched in on by Mega Charizard Y, even if it's destroyed by one of Gorebyss's moves, the player should take that opportunity to pass to Megazard.

Team Options:
- This section also needs a lot of work and expansion. Mention more sweepers that SmashPass can turn into overpowering forces. For example, Excadrill can smash through Clefable with a boosted Mold Breaker Iron Head. Strong Pokemon that are normally held back by the lack of an appropriate boosting move, such as Mega Heracross and the already-mentioned Garchomp are also great. Aegislash, however, isn't that great of an example. It's really much too frail and unreliable to sweep with SmashPass since most teams with SmashPass rely on it as their best and most important win condition.
- WHERE IS THE SUPPORT??? Any sweeping strategy, and especially in particular SmashPass, needs team support to make it happen. Status, Hazards, Dual Screens, etc. etc. etc., these are all things that can and should be mentioned along with their respective users.

Checks and Counters:

- Flesh this out too. Make more mention of specific Pokemon by name. For example, on what Pokemon might you encounter Haze, Taunt, or phazing moves?
- Perish Song is a pain in the butt to any boosting strategy. Mention it, probably along with Celebi, who can live a +2 Ice Beam.
- Bulkier Pokemon in general are a problem, as it may be harder for the Shell Smash sweeper to take them down. Examples include Conkeldurr, Mega Venusaur, etc.

 

[Yuri]

Mention somewhere that White Herb will activate for any stat drop, therefore Gorebyss should be wary of Sticky Web and even random Intimidates or stat drops from Shadow Ball or whatever wasting it.

 

[Ash Borer]

Mega Mawile is a good recipient imo, It has the typing for it and it just seems absolutely terrifying at +2/+2, sucker punch kills most scarfers

Also have dual screen users somewhere in team options, its a bit convoluted to have to screen then smash then pass but it works when it works

 

[Fuzznip]

Se7en Lions

Still working on this? 24 hours to respond.

 

[CyclicCompound]

I can take this over if necessary.

 

[Colonel M]

By the way for whoever is going to write Gorebyss: Psychic > Ice Beam IMO.

Psychic for Chesnaught / Amoonguss / Mega 'saur.

Ice Beam for DRAGONS.

 

[CyclicCompound]

By the way for whoever is going to write Gorebyss: Psychic > Ice Beam IMO.

Psychic for Chesnaught / Amoonguss / Mega 'saur.

Ice Beam for DRAGONS.

I see your point, but both Chesnaught and Amoonguss are hit for exactly the same damage with Ice Beam, so it doesn't matter whether you use Ice Beam or Psychic for their coverage. That leaves only Mega Venusaur and Keldeo as Pokemon that are exclusively hit harder by Psychic than Ice Beam. IMO the ability to seriously threaten stuff like Latias, Latios, Garchomp, Mandibuzz, Mega Pinsir, and the tons of other Ice-weak Pokemon in the tier is much better than solely Mega Venusuar and Keldeo

Also keep in mind that Mega Venusaur tends to be a pretty easy Pokemon to take advantage of for BP... there's almost guaranteed to be something on your team that can switch in on it relatively safely.

 

[Seven Lions]

Woops. ok, ill add changes. forgot about this

 

[CyclicCompound]

Se7en Lions has VM'd me indicating that I can take this analysis over.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

K.