OU Tornadus

[Ash Borer]

~n_n~ I'll throw a bitch fit if Damp Rock is removed as a slash, but I can live with it being the secondary slash.

Also Sdef Skarm walls Torn to hell, put that in C&C

Also Blissey/Chansey are pretty bad counters considerin knockoff/superpower are primary slashes

QC APPROVED 2/4

 

[CyclicCompound]

This looks pretty good, I can't think of anything to change or fix.

If I were you I might add something in usage tips about how in some cases (usually when running Life Orb, this isn't really a problem with Damp Rock) you shouldn't use Rain Dance until you know for sure the opponent's going to KO you, even if it means missed Hurricanes or something on your part for a turn or two. This extremely important in scenarios where you need Rain up for as long as possible for your more important Swift Swim sweepers.

That was kinda worded weirdly, so here's a simpler version:

Generally Swift Swim Sweeper in rain > Tornadus in rain; therefore in emergencies save rain turns for sweepers, not Tornadus

Let's see this written up!

QC 3/4

 

[RotomPoison]

I really think Tailwind should be a slash somewhere on the main set. I know this metagame is heavily priority based, but the fact that it doubles a sweepers Speed makes it an excellent choice for a HO team. In fact, if a DeoSharp team adds this, they force the opponent to lose something on their team. Literally any common Pokemon in OU would lose to a Bisharp that can now outspeed them without resorting to the risky Sucker Punch. The only obstacle would be Mega Venusaur, which takes lot of damage from a Hurricane, or even Deoxys-Ds Psycho Boost if you want to do that. Rain even cuts down Mega Venusaurs recovery and, should you choose to use Taunt over Superpower/Focus Blast, could completely cut off Mega Venusaurs recovery. In other words, 90% of the time, laying hazards with Deoxys-D, then hitting Venusaur with Psycho Boost weakens it to the point Tornadus can finish it off, then use Tailwind and allow Bisharp 3 turns of doubled Speed, which realistically means the opponent will lose 2-3 Pokemon very early game while you have hazards up. And nothing stops you from having something else to clean up the mess after (obviously not Deoxys-S, but several Pokemon can do this, so it's not a huge issue.)

 

[LightningLuxray]

I really think Tailwind should be a slash somewhere on the main set. I know this metagame is heavily priority based, but the fact that it doubles a sweepers Speed makes it an excellent choice for a HO team. In fact, if a DeoSharp team adds this, they force the opponent to lose something on their team. Literally any common Pokemon in OU would lose to a Bisharp that can now outspeed them without resorting to the risky Sucker Punch. The only obstacle would be Mega Venusaur, which takes lot of damage from a Hurricane, or even Deoxys-Ds Psycho Boost if you want to do that. Rain even cuts down Mega Venusaurs recovery and, should you choose to use Taunt over Superpower/Focus Blast, could completely cut off Mega Venusaurs recovery. In other words, 90% of the time, laying hazards with Deoxys-D, then hitting Venusaur with Psycho Boost weakens it to the point Tornadus can finish it off, then use Tailwind and allow Bisharp 3 turns of doubled Speed, which realistically means the opponent will lose 2-3 Pokemon very early game while you have hazards up. And nothing stops you from having something else to clean up the mess after (obviously not Deoxys-S, but several Pokemon can do this, so it's not a huge issue.)

The problem is Tornadus is kind of shit outside of it's niche on Rain teams. I mean I understand it's powerful, but it's just so utterly frail that a lot of the times it's getting killed before it can even set one up. I mean is their really a reason to use Tailwind Tornadus over something like Tailwind Talonflame? They both get priority Tailwind, except Talonflame also comes with the infamous priority Brave Bird, allowing it to better support its team overall.

 

[alexwolf]

Seconding that Tailwind deserves to be on the main set, it's extremely effective to allow powerful rain wallbreaker to clean up late game or get 1-2 kills after Tornadus has served its purpose, such as Choice Specs Keldeo and Crawdaunt. Also, Rain Dance is not a must at all, and it actually isn't even worth of a primary slash. You shouldn't be setting up rain with Tornadus, as it's very frail and not that threatening when rain is down thanks to that awfull 70% accurate Hurricane. You should be spamming Hurricane or catching Flying resists with the appropriate covereage move as soon as you enter the battle. After you batter some stuff and you are faced with a faster opponent that can OHKO or a priority user than can OHKO, just click Tailwind, and continue the fun. Here is how i would make the set:

Offensive
########
name: Offensive
move 1: Hurricane
move 2: Superpower / Focus Blast
move 3: Tailwind / Rain Dance
move 4: Knock Off / Taunt
ability: Prankster
item: Life Orb
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Naive / Timid

Knock Off is slashed before Taunt because otherwise Aegislash is a huge dick, which is a big problem as it is very hard to switch into for rain HO. Taunt is still gret for Deo-S, Deo-D, and shutting down recovery from stuff such as Chansey and Zapdos, but Knock Off is better in an Aegislash meta. Damp Rock is Set Details material, as Tornadus needs all the power it can get to function properly, and it should only be used when the rain team has two-three Swift Swim sweepers.

 

[Swamp Link]

Yeah, I'm going to say no to Tailwind on the main set. Tailwind is a cool move, and it's better with Prankster, but the problem with it has always been that it lasts only 3 turns. Considering that Tornadus also needs to die or get out of the way somehow, it's tough to take advantage of. On a rain team, +2 Speed Kabutops or Kingdra is going to be equally threatening compared to +2 Speed Keldeo or Crawdaunt, so I don't see the need to switch to that form of support. Rain Dance will help the whole team, it will help Tornadus, and it still sets up a sweep for other Pokemon. If you want to just use a pure offensive Flying-type on rain, then Tornadus-T is better anyway, Tornadus's advantage is the rain support that it can help with. I'll give it a good mention in OO, but I don't want it on the main set.

 

[trc]

hooray.

~4/4~

 

[horyzhnz]

Swamp Link sup
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stuff i did

Overview
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Tornadus's niche rests in its powerful ability Prankster, which grants priority to all of its non-attacking moves. This, combined with its high Special Attack and Speed, and access to a powerful STAB Hurricane, makes it an ideal supporter for rain teams. While it can set up a Prankster Rain Dance to help the rest of the team, it is also a threatening and powerful Pokemon in rain. However, this is where Tornadus's good points end. Mediocre defensive typing and bulk make it difficult to both set up rain and take more than one or two hits. It also faces great competition from its Therian forme, which is faster and has Regenerator, also a great ability. Tornadus is less threatening without permanent rain, but underestimating it would be a mistake, as it can be a powerful member of rain teams.

Rain Dance
########
name: Rain Dance
move 1: Rain Dance
move 2: Hurricane
move 3: Superpower / Focus Blast
move 4: Knock Off / Taunt
ability: Prankster
item: Life Orb / Damp Rock
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Naive / Timid

Moves
========

Rain Dance makes Tornadus an auxiliary weather inducer for rain teams, an important role with the lack of permanent rain. Hurricane is Tornadus's main offensive move, with great power and neutral coverage. Superpower gets good coverage with Hurricane and has 100% accuracy, but Focus Blast is a stronger option with that provides the same coverage. Knock Off hits Aegislash, while Prankster Taunt is a great disrupting move. U-turn can also be used to possibly get a rain sweeper in for free, possibly for free,(RC) if you want to preserve Tornadus for later.

Set Details
========

Special Attack and Speed are maximized so that Tornadus hits as hard as possible while taking advantage of its great Speed tier that puts it ahead of Pokemon like Latios. Life Orb is the best item because 5 turns of rain is usually enough,(RC) and Tornadus appreciates the wallbreaking power, but Damp Rock can be used to maximize rain turns if you desire. Prankster is the ability to make Rain Dance near guaranteed The Prankster ability almost guarantees setting up Rain Dance. If going mixed, a Naive nature is better so that Tornadus can take physical Bug- and Fighting-type moves better, but Timid should be used if you opt for Focus Blast and Taunt.

Usage Tips
========

Tornadus should come in mid-game (add hyphen) after the first time your rain runs out. It Tornadus should not be your first rain setter, as this squanders its offensive capabilities. After setting up Rain Dance, it's probably best for it to just spam Hurricane or the appropriate coverage move until it's KOed, which should be soon, to let another rain sweeper in for free. However, if you see the opportunity to switch in another Pokemon for free, then you can save Tornadus and get another set of off another guaranteed rain later.

Team Options
========

Deoxys-S's Damp Rock set makes a great rain lead to set the pressure. Politoed is also basically mandatory for rain teams, thanks to setting up rain just for by switching in. After that, rain abusers should be added. Electric-types such as Thundurus, Thundurus-T, Raikou, and Mega Manectric are good Pokemon that take advantage of Thunder's 100% accuracy in rain. Swift Swimmers are also a crucial part of rain teams. Kabutops and Kingdra are both good choices, while Ludicolo, Omastar, and Seismitoad are more unconventional choices that can still be effective.

Other Options
########

Tornadus doesn't have many other usable options in OU. Tailwind is a very notable option,(RC) though, as it gives all Pokemon on Tornadus's team doubled Speed for 3 turns, and is near guaranteed with Prankster, but the set is overall inferior to Rain Dance because Tornadus is much less threatening outside of rain, and Rain Dance will double the Speed of Swift Swimmers anyway. A physical Defiant set with no item and Acrobatics can work as an all-out attacker and Defog abuser, but it is too weak without an item.

Checks & Counters
########

**Electric-types**: Electric-types such as Thundurus and Rotom-W can easily survive Tornadus's attacks and hit it with a STAB Thunderbolt or Volt Switch.

**Weather-inducers**: Mega Charizard Y's sun reduces Hurricane's accuracy to 50% and can take Tornadus out with ease. Scarf Tyranitar can also change the weather, while outspeeding and KOing.

**Bulky Flying-resists (add hyphen)**: Specially Defensive Skarmory can avoid a 2HKO from any attack that Tornadus will carry. Aegislash also takes even Knock Off fairly well, and can help protect itself against that with King's Shield.

With Tornadus, the real threat is its rain support for the rest of the team, which is much harder to stop than Hurricane.

Nice and short, with very little mistakes. Well done.

GP 1/2

 

[Swamp Link]

Thanks for the quick check, implemented.

 

[alexwolf]

Please, can we slash Tailwind with Rain Dance? Tailwind is way better on teams that don't utilize a lot of Swift Swimmers and instead have Pokemon such as Keldeo, Mega Gyarados, Crawdaunt, and Mega Ampharos. Not to mention that Deo-S and Politoed are usually more than enough as rain sources for rain teams, making Rain Dance on Tornadus often redundant.

And remove Damp Rock as a slash, Tornadus is easy as fuck to wall without LO, and the whole point of using Tornadus is having a fast and hard to wall attacker that can provide an emergency Rain Dance / Tailwind. Take away the strong part and you will realize that Tornadus struggles to KO even frail offensive Pokemon not weak to its moves, such as Greninja (81.1 - 95.8%), which is just pathetic.

 

[Swamp Link]

k

 

[Calm Pokemaster]

Swamp Link

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Overview
########

Tornadus's niche rests in its powerful ability Prankster, which grants priority to all of its non-attacking moves. This, combined with its high Special Attack and Speed, and as well as access to a powerful STAB Hurricane, makes it an ideal supporter for rain teams. While it can set up a Prankster Rain Dance to help the rest of the team, it is also a threatening and powerful Pokemon in rain. However, this is where Tornadus's good points end. Mediocre defensive typing and bulk make it difficult to both set up rain and take more than one or two hits. It also faces great competition from its Therian forme, which is faster and has Regenerator, also a great ability. Tornadus is less threatening without permanent rain, but underestimating it would be a mistake, as it can be a powerful member of rain teams.

Prankster
########
name: Prankster
move 1: Rain Dance / Tailwind
move 2: Hurricane
move 3: Superpower / Focus Blast
move 4: Knock Off / Taunt
ability: Prankster
item: Life Orb
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Naive / Timid

Moves
========

Rain Dance makes Tornadus an auxiliary weather inducer for rain teams, an important role with the lack of permanent rain. Alternatively, Tailwind can be used to double the Speed of your entire team, as your team may already have enough rain support. Hurricane is Tornadus's main offensive move, with great power and neutral coverage. Superpower gets good coverage with Hurricane and has 100% accuracy, but Focus Blast is a stronger option that provides the same coverage. Knock Off hits Aegislash, while Prankster Taunt is a great disrupting move. U-turn can also be used to possibly get a rain sweeper in for free, if you want to preserve Tornadus for later.

Set Details
========

Special Attack and Speed are maximized so that Tornadus hits as hard as possible while taking advantage of its great Speed tier that puts it ahead of Pokemon like Latios. Life Orb is the best item because five turns of rain is usually enough and Tornadus appreciates the wallbreaking power, but Damp Rock can be used to maximize rain turns if you desire. The Prankster ability almost guarantees setting up Rain Dance. If going mixed, a Naive nature is better so that Tornadus can take physical Bug- and Fighting-type moves better, but Timid should be used if you opt for Focus Blast and Taunt.

Usage Tips
========

Tornadus should come in mid-game after the first time your rain runs out. Tornadus It should not be your first rain setter, as this squanders its offensive capabilities. After setting up Rain Dance, it's probably best for it to just spam Hurricane or the appropriate coverage move until it's KOed, which should be soon, to let another rain sweeper in for free. However, if you see the opportunity to switch in another Pokemon for free, then you can save Tornadus and get off another guaranteed Rain Dance later.

Team Options
========

Deoxys-S's Damp Rock set makes a great rain lead to set the pressure. Politoed is also basically mandatory for rain teams, thanks to setting up rain just by switching in. After that, rain abusers should be added. Electric-types such as Thundurus, Thundurus-T, Raikou, and Mega Manectric are good Pokemon that take advantage of Thunder's 100% accuracy in rain. Swift Swimmers are also a crucial part of rain teams. Kabutops and Kingdra are both good choices, while Ludicolo, Omastar, and Seismitoad are more unconventional choices that can still be effective.

Other Options
########

Tornadus doesn't have many other usable options in OU. A physical Defiant set with no item and Acrobatics can work as an all-out attacker and Defog abuser, but it is too weak without an item.

Checks & Counters
########

**Electric-types**: Electric-types such as Thundurus and Rotom-W can easily survive Tornadus's attacks and hit it with a STAB Thunderbolt or Volt Switch.

**Weather Inducers**: Mega Charizard Y's sun reduces Hurricane's accuracy to 50% and can take Tornadus out with ease. Choice Scarf Tyranitar can also change the weather, while outspeeding and KOing.

**Bulky Pokemon That Resist Flying-resists**: Specially defensive Skarmory can avoid a 2HKO from any attack that Tornadus will carry. Aegislash also takes even Knock Off fairly well, (remove comma) and can help protect itself against that with King's Shield.

With Tornadus, the real threat is its rain support for the rest of the team, which is much harder to stop than Hurricane. (You can't have a stand-alone sentence like this in Checks and Counters. Shift it to Usage Tips if you think it's valid there, or just remove it altogether)

Neat stuff; not much for me to do to, but watch out for that comment in Checks and Counters and fix it ^__^

GP 2 / 2[/user]

 

[Swamp Link]

Changes implemented, thanks!