I can see this thing becoming an OU staple overnight with Steam Eruption (READ AS: Super Scald), great bulk, great typing, and very usable movepool. Steam Eruption is definitely going to give me a headache on top of the fact that this thing already hits pretty hard with its great base 130 SpAtk stat and incredible STAB combination. Looking forward to playing with it, but not so much against it.
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Pokémon Volcanion
- Thread starter Delibird is Amazing
- Start date
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I feel this thing is getting a little overhyped, the stat spread is quite nice (a bit more speed wouldn't hurt though) and the typing is interesting to say the least.
Steam Eruption sounds rather amazing but other than that it doesn't seem any better than Heatran, for a slow bulky mon with no recovery, being stealth rock weak is a big deal it also doesn't seem to get Stealth Rock which is a big reason of why Heatran is so good, being vulnerable to Toxic is another big disadvantage, as well as not being able to do much to water types that don't care about being burned too much ( Rotom-W is a big one) or have an immunity (Vaporeon, Jellicent, Gastrodon, etc).
That being said though Volcanion looks pretty solid and I definitely think it will be BL/OU.
Steam Eruption sounds rather amazing but other than that it doesn't seem any better than Heatran, for a slow bulky mon with no recovery, being stealth rock weak is a big deal it also doesn't seem to get Stealth Rock which is a big reason of why Heatran is so good, being vulnerable to Toxic is another big disadvantage, as well as not being able to do much to water types that don't care about being burned too much ( Rotom-W is a big one) or have an immunity (Vaporeon, Jellicent, Gastrodon, etc).
That being said though Volcanion looks pretty solid and I definitely think it will be BL/OU.
Say what?
Rotosect
Banned deucer.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Volcanion ends up becoming a suspect, since there is nothing in OU that enjoys eating a Steam Eruption.
As I mentioned in my previous post, all the Storm Drain/Water Absorb pokemon (besides Volcanion itself) that used to lurk OU in BW are now down in UU or even RU and deemed almost unviable.
Just like Baton Pass does have its counters, but people don't want/can't use them in OU, if the same happens with Volcanion then I can see where this is going.
As I mentioned in my previous post, all the Storm Drain/Water Absorb pokemon (besides Volcanion itself) that used to lurk OU in BW are now down in UU or even RU and deemed almost unviable.
Just like Baton Pass does have its counters, but people don't want/can't use them in OU, if the same happens with Volcanion then I can see where this is going.
I really dont think so, nothing wants to switch into cb sacred fire either, it still isnt broken. Volcanion is good, but it is easily walled by specially based dragons (goodra,lati@s,etc.), bulky waters,magic guard clefable, chansey, and probably something else. it is A rank material, but has a lot more counter than something like M-pinsir.
This thing looks scary, I mean all those things combined: Typing, Offensive and Defensive Stats, Ability and that signature move. Can't decide between Scald and Hydropump? Lol, you don't need them *spamming Steam Eruption everywhere*
Heatran and Mega Venusaur have better type synergy, covering each other's weaknesses well minus the Ground-type weakness for Heatran. However, Mega Venusaur can handily beat a ton of users of Earthquake while being able to fire back a STAB Giga Drain against Ground-types.
Mega Venusaur and Volcanion as a core is weak to Flying-, Ground- (sort of), Rock- (also sort of), and Psychic-types. The Flying-type weakness is the most critical of those.
However, I feel like Volcanion and Gliscor could form a pretty good core and they effectively spread burns and Toxic. Gliscor also serves as a decent answer to Talonflame variants that do not run Substitute and a boosting move, unlike Mega Venusaur, as it can stall out Talonflame and kill it with its own recoil and Toxic. Volcanion with 252 HP EVs will take 58.7-69.1% from a Choice Band Brave Bird and KO back with Steam Erruption.
Goodra is shit anyways, but it is a counter nonetheless, however:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Volcanion Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 129-153 (42.7 - 50.6%) -- 94.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Volcanion Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 112-132 (37 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Volcanion Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 181-214 (44.8 - 52.9%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Volcanion Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Quagsire: 399-471 (101.2 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Volcanion Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 217-256 (55 - 64.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Volcanion Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 262-310 (37.2 - 44%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Choice Specs sets handily beat these bar Latias really. The fact that you don't know it is Specs is really a factor too, it could be Mixed, Choice Specs, Flame Charge, Defensive, and even more, I'm sure!
I have this really cool idea(tho already could.have been mentioned) its adding flame charge onto an Assualt vest set. Tho it'd have to loose a coverage move, it does get +1 speed and with an assault vest it can take lots of hits and since it has high sp attack it can wreck teams with this +1 while taking a bit of. A beating, and it has plenty of opportunitys to do this to. Idk might be a shitty idea.
Heatran doesn't like taking steam eruptions. Interesting thing is that a good thing that walls volcanion so far is itself.
I'm not really a fan of how it looks, but it's a totally viable pokemon...well, at least in a vacuum. My concern is that it has too much competition. I cannot foresee any team where I'd want this over heatran, nor can I think of a reason why I'd want both on the same team. If I was ever going to have a second fire type, it would be char Y to add sun and eat ground and fighting stuff.
As 'luck' would have it, I never stopped using vaporeon, who can wall this guy all day.
In other news, mono-fire teams just got ridiculously broken
As 'luck' would have it, I never stopped using vaporeon, who can wall this guy all day.
In other news, mono-fire teams just got ridiculously broken
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K was just wondering because I would have thought that we don't know 100% of the moves it learns
Forget Hidden Power Electric. Unless you are running Choice Specs or you are really aiming to take down Gyarados, Hidden Power Electric is simply way too weak to deal meaningful damage. Same goes for Hidden Power Grass vs Gastrodon. If you really want to take down bulky waters and hurt certain Dragons, Toxic is definitely the way to go. You have to remember that most bulky Water-types can't do shit back to you because of Water-Absorb. I remember back in BW some Keldeo ran Toxic on Choice Specs sets in their free fourth moveslot to screw over Jellicent and the like. Anyway here is what I am seeing:
Volcanion (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 160 HP / 252 SAtk / 96 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Steam Eruption
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
- Toxic
With its great set of resistances and solid bulk, Volcanion is surely going to have an opportunity to get up a Substitute. Both Steam Eruption and Fire Blast can deal out major damage backed by base 130 attack and STAB, although you can use Flamethrower for more PP and consistency. Toxic screws overs any bulky Water thinking they can outlast you. Behind a Substitute and Water Absorb, you will be sitting pretty. Dual status with Steam Eruption and Toxic will surely put a lot of pressure on your opponent.
Overall I think Volcanion is in a Kyurem-B like situation. At first its movepool seems really shallow, but if you examine it more closer you will see it is a much bigger threat than expected and has more to offer than its movepool appears to be. Choice Specs is looking really good (esp. with Overheat), and defensive sets can easily be pulled off with Roar, Toxic, Wil-o-Wisp, Haze, and Steam Eruption at its disposal.
Volcanion (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 160 HP / 252 SAtk / 96 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Steam Eruption
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
- Toxic
With its great set of resistances and solid bulk, Volcanion is surely going to have an opportunity to get up a Substitute. Both Steam Eruption and Fire Blast can deal out major damage backed by base 130 attack and STAB, although you can use Flamethrower for more PP and consistency. Toxic screws overs any bulky Water thinking they can outlast you. Behind a Substitute and Water Absorb, you will be sitting pretty. Dual status with Steam Eruption and Toxic will surely put a lot of pressure on your opponent.
Overall I think Volcanion is in a Kyurem-B like situation. At first its movepool seems really shallow, but if you examine it more closer you will see it is a much bigger threat than expected and has more to offer than its movepool appears to be. Choice Specs is looking really good (esp. with Overheat), and defensive sets can easily be pulled off with Roar, Toxic, Wil-o-Wisp, Haze, and Steam Eruption at its disposal.
Weather Ball is only viable in Sand and Hail, but Volcanion gets hurt by that unless he's wearing Safety Goggles.
God Damn, BRB; Let me make a Gimmicky Ass Hail/Sand Volcanion Weather Ball set real quick.
Firetruck (Volcanion) @ Safety Goggles
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 72 HP / 252 SAtk / 180 Spd
Modest Nature
- Substitute
- Steam Eruption
- Fire Blast/Flamethrower
- Weather Ball
Sand makes Weather Ball a 100 BP Special Rock Type move with no Drawbacks. You could easily switch this in when your opponent tries to use a Water Attack against one of your Ground Types for it to regain HP, set up a sub, and then start to wreck havoc. Dragon/Flying Types will take big damage from the Weather Ball. Not even Lando is safe against this Firetruck because of Steam Eruption. *Sticky Web support is Highly Recommended to out speed grounded stuff I guess.
I don't know about Hail, but hail makes Weather Ball a 100 BP Special Ice Type move with no Drawbacks. You could easily switch Volcanion in on fire types, set up a Sub, and Weather Ball dafuq out of incoming Dragon Types. *Sticky Web support is Highly Recommended to out speed grounded Dragons and other things I guess.
You should also add a Wish Passer, or Heal Bell Pokemon, or even Healing Wish Latias to help this thing out if hit with Status.
Great Teammates I guess include Gliscor, Tyranitar, Chansey, and Latias or something that can Heal/Wish Pass.
God Damn, BRB; Let me make a Gimmicky Ass Hail/Sand Volcanion Weather Ball set real quick.
Firetruck (Volcanion) @ Safety Goggles
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 72 HP / 252 SAtk / 180 Spd
Modest Nature
- Substitute
- Steam Eruption
- Fire Blast/Flamethrower
- Weather Ball
Sand makes Weather Ball a 100 BP Special Rock Type move with no Drawbacks. You could easily switch this in when your opponent tries to use a Water Attack against one of your Ground Types for it to regain HP, set up a sub, and then start to wreck havoc. Dragon/Flying Types will take big damage from the Weather Ball. Not even Lando is safe against this Firetruck because of Steam Eruption. *Sticky Web support is Highly Recommended to out speed grounded stuff I guess.
I don't know about Hail, but hail makes Weather Ball a 100 BP Special Ice Type move with no Drawbacks. You could easily switch Volcanion in on fire types, set up a Sub, and Weather Ball dafuq out of incoming Dragon Types. *Sticky Web support is Highly Recommended to out speed grounded Dragons and other things I guess.
You should also add a Wish Passer, or Heal Bell Pokemon, or even Healing Wish Latias to help this thing out if hit with Status.
Great Teammates I guess include Gliscor, Tyranitar, Chansey, and Latias or something that can Heal/Wish Pass.
Why safety goggles when leftovers essentially negates sandstorm damage and actually does something if sandstorm isn't up?
Safety Goggles do have the added bonus of negating powder moves, but Leftovers are going to be better almost all of the time. Especially on a substitute set.
I like how you automatically thought about how this set would do if Weather wasn't up when I made it clear that Weather was the point of this whole set.
Safety Goggles negates Weather Damage and Powder moves altogether.
Leftovers gives you no Item at all while Sand/Hail is up (unless Leaftovers restores more HP than Sand does), while Safety Goggles Negates the side effects of Weather and Powder Moves.
The point of this set is to send Volcanion in when weather is up for the increased Weather Ball, which would be pretty easy since people tend to use Water Type attacks to hurt a Sand Team, or Fire Type attacks to hit members of a Hail Team.
This could all be avoided if you have Leech Seed, another thing Abomasnow can do on predicted Switches.
Not to mention Volcanion's Teammates would probably need Leftovers more than him.
Your comment was completely irrelevant to that set I made. You should most likely switch out once weather is gone and your opponent still has a Pokemon that could be OHKO'd by boosted Weather Ball. If they don't, stay in and use your Water/Fire STABs to do some Damage.
haunter
Banned deucer.
.TM87, he is totally correct. Safety Googles are inferior to Leftovers in any circumstance. Leftovers basically negate passive damage from Sand/Hail (restoring the same amount of HP you lose because of Sandstream/Snow warning) and ALSO give you back some HP when Sand/Hail is not up (I'm sure you know that weather abilities now only last 5-8 turns). Also we don't enforce item clause on here, so the fact that Volcanion's team mates might need Leftovers too is completely irrelevant to this discussion.
Furthermore, the set has Substitute which will also negate powder moves with a few exceptions (just Infiltrator Jumpluff and Whimsicott, I think).
Edit: No, Infiltrator Jumpluff and Whimsicott are not really OU viable. I mentioned them because they're literally the only two Pokemon with Infiltrator+powder moves.
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Who uses those mon anyways?
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