Pokémon Charizard

[Flamebot]

Yeah. Keep in mind that you'll be completely walled by Heatran though.

That's okay. I got Heatran covered by Garchomp(I think Garchomp OHKO's Heatran with Earthquake xD)

 

[aVocado]

Can I just run Fire blast, dragon pulse, solar beam, roost on charizard Y? I would assume that this is very Viable.

Focus Blast on CharY is a bit too good. Not only does it hit Heatran, but also Tyranitar, who is the Pokemon you should be targeting.

 

[Jaguar360]

Do we have to go over this again?

Let's see.

Entei's only reason to ever be used is to spam Sacred Fire. It being locked (I'm assuming Entei is using it's most viable and only set other than the not-common AV set, which is CB) onto Stone Edge then that's bad for Entei, otherwise, it's extreme set-up bait for CharX. And either way, they'll always tie because Entei is always adamant. Porygon-Z is actually irrelevant so I'll skip it, but I'll give you points for this one, Timid does outspeed. Rotom-W won't outspeed CharX if it's running Modest, and it won't outspeed CharX at +1 if it's a scarf with modest. And no, Outrage at +1 does indeed OHKO all variants of Rotom-W, while only missing a guaranteed OHKO on physically defensive.. which still has a high chance of being OHKO'd:

+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 295-348 (97 - 114.4%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

(and js: rotom-w normally doesn't have 252/252+, it takes some of both EVs to invest into speed to outrun Jolly Azumarill, so, taking that into account, this is the most absolute relevant calc:

+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Rotom-W: 304-358 (100.3 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

But I posted the one above for worst case scenarios where rotom-w could be running 252/252+)

Kyurem-B's most common and relevant set rn is mixed, and as you said Scarf is only 11%, so I don't see how that's an issue. It's easy to figure out what set Kyurem is running purely by seeing how much damage the first attack it did made. If it was Outrage/D.Claw and it did a lot then it's band. If it's Substitute, then it's mixed. If you see 10% HP reduction after using a move, it's obviously LO. If it's too weak however, then it's Scarf. And regular Kyurem isn't relevant, but yeah I guess Scarf is its most common set in OU, props to that.

I was assuming a worse case scenario, that Rotom-W, Entei and crew could possibly pose a threat to Adamant Charizard X. I am well aware that Charizard OHKOs Rotom-W at +1 and I even said it in my post. I probably should have acknowledged that Timid Scarftom can only OHKO Charizard if it hasn't already set up a Dragon Dance though, so you win with that I guess.

As for Entei, it is running Stone Edge either way and will KO an Adamant Charizard X unless it is at +2. Stone Edge isn't that horrible to be locked into either aside from the accuracy issue.

For Kyurem-B, I'm just saying that Scarf is a thing and you won't know what set it is running if it hasn't been sent out yet. You're still taking a risk against if it is sent in to revenge kill Charizard. You do have a point though since it isn't all that common.

And then there are still the other base 100s like Staraptor (252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 306-360 (103 - 121.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO), Manaphy (+3 252 SpA Manaphy Surf vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Charizard X: 348-411 (117.1 - 138.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO), and Salamence (252 Atk Salamence Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 372-438 (125.2 - 147.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO). Yes, Staraptor and Salamence are bordeline, but they still have a presence in OU. Don't forget the other Charizards as well.

All I'm trying to say is, running Jolly has its merits. You cannot say that Char X is not viable if it is running Jolly over Adamant. That is just super close-minded. Adamant nets you some important OHKO's, but Jolly allows you to have a more consistent speed advantage.

 

[aVocado]

^ Jaguar360 yeah I gotta admit base 100s like Staraptor/'Mence/etc do get the jump on CharX, but you shouldn't be setting up on those anyway.. I'm not saying that CharX isn't viable without Adamant, i'm saying that the OHKOs that Adamant (and Outrage, mind you) nets is far more important than being outsped by Pokemon you shouldn't be setting up upon. The 2HKOs-turned-OHKOs are too many and all of them are important.

 

[dkkc19]

Can I just run Fire blast, dragon pulse, solar beam, roost on charizard Y? I would assume that this is very Viable.

Why Dragon Pulse? Garchomp outspeeds Charizard, so its pointless. I've seen some scarfed Hydreigons, who will outspeed Charizard but they have no business switching into Charizard X in the first place as only Dark Pulse followed by Draco Meteor can 2hko Charizard which is not possible using a Scarf. Dragon Pulse is a 4hko against AV Goodra, who can 2hko Charizard by Thunderbolt. Against Dragonite, its a 3hko and it might activate weakness policy which means Dragon Claw is a 1hko.

The only possible use I could see for Dragon Pulse is against a predicted Garchomp switch in, but it doesn't even 1hko Garchomp, who in return can 1hko you with Stone Edge.

Switch Dragon Pulse for something else like Focus Blast, Earthquake, or maybe even Air Slash.

 

[Aragorn the King]

Why Dragon Pulse? Garchomp outspeeds Charizard, so its pointless. I've seen some scarfed Hydreigons, who will outspeed Charizard but they have no business switching into Charizard X in the first place as only Dark Pulse followed by Draco Meteor can 2hko Charizard. Dragon Pulse is a 4hko against AV Goodra, who can 2hko Charizard by Thunderbolt. Against Dragonite, its a 3hko and it might activate weakness policy which means Dragon Claw is a 1hko.

The only possible use I could see for Dragon Pulse is against a predicted Garchomp switch in, but it doesn't even 1hko Garchomp, who in return can 1hko you with Stone Edge.

Switch Dragon Pulse for something else like Focus Blast, Earthquake, or maybe even Air Slash.

Never Air Slash. Ever. But Focus Blast is usually the best third move choice.

 

[dkkc19]

Never Air Slash. Ever. But Focus Blast is usually the best third move choice.

I prefer Air Slash over Fire Blast for accuracy reasons when facing Mega Venasaur, other than than its not useful and Focus Blast or Earthquake is a better option.

Dragon Pulse is useless on Charizard Y. The only possible use I could see for Dragon Pulse is against Adamant Charizard X.

 

[Hrothgar]

As much as I despise the variance moves, Focus Blast is definitely the best 3rd attack for charx and pretty much the only other option. WoW is a fine option as well because it neuters so many common switch-ins, but you're still toast vs heatran.

 

[dkkc19]

As much as I despise the variance moves, Focus Blast is definitely the best 3rd attack for charx and pretty much the only other option. WoW is a fine option as well because it neuters so many common switch-ins, but you're still toast vs heatran.

Earthquake is nice to have, just to fuck with non-Air Balloon Heatrans.

 

[aVocado]

A resisted Fire Blast does way more than a neutral Air Slash, js.

 

[dkkc19]

A resisted Fire Blast does way more than a neutral Air Slash, js.

I think both 2hko Venu, but one has better accuracy and a nice 30% chance to flinch.

 

[Flamebot]

What are some good partners for charizard X?
And what are some good partners for Y?
I want to try the two out but I'm not sure.what Pokemon make great partners besides Hazard control Pokemon

 

[D-Ssain]

What are some good partners for charizard X?
And what are some good partners for Y?
I want to try the two out but I'm not sure.what Pokemon make great partners besides Hazard control Pokemon

Well I love Charizard X as you can see from my pic and name so I believe I can give you some good advice for Zard X. 80% of my teams have Zard X and the best, the truly best partner I have found for him is Manaphy, why you ask? Manaphy takes care of most if not all of Charizard X's counters and checks. The set should have Scald/Surf, Energy Ball, Ice Beam, Random Move and for the item: Choice Specs. It takes care of Keldeo, Azumarill, EVERY DRAGON that outspeeds Zard X without a DD, Tyranitar, Hippowdon, Quagsire, and so many others. For Hazard control you can go with Excadrill or Skarmory, they both do wonderfully.

For Charizard Y, I've only made one team with him, but I would assume Excadrill should make a good partner with him as he can absorb electric attacks, rock attacks are x4 resisted by him and he's an amazing rapid spinner.

 

[Prince Oberyn]

I'd rather run HP Fighting than Focus Blast Miss. Yes, Focus Miss is good for Ttar and Heatran, but at the end of the day it's 70% accuracy is so damn unreliable. Personally, I'd skip over Focus Miss and take up Air Slash - hits Fighting types like AV Conk pretty nicely and flinch haxing is always good.

 

[heritage]

I'd rather run HP Fighting than Focus Blast Miss. Yes, Focus Miss is good for Ttar and Heatran, but at the end of the day it's 70% accuracy is so damn unreliable. Personally, I'd skip over Focus Miss and take up Air Slash - hits Fighting types like AV Conk pretty nicely and flinch haxing is always good.

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr: 270-320 (65.2 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr in Sun: 297-351 (71.7 - 84.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Run Focus Blast. Charizard's Fire Blast does more than Air Slash. If you don't run Focus you are completely walled by Heatran and stuff.

 

[Immortal]

Why Dragon Pulse? Garchomp outspeeds Charizard, so its pointless. I've seen some scarfed Hydreigons, who will outspeed Charizard but they have no business switching into Charizard X in the first place as only Dark Pulse followed by Draco Meteor can 2hko Charizard which is not possible using a Scarf. Dragon Pulse is a 4hko against AV Goodra, who can 2hko Charizard by Thunderbolt. Against Dragonite, its a 3hko and it might activate weakness policy which means Dragon Claw is a 1hko.

The only possible use I could see for Dragon Pulse is against a predicted Garchomp switch in, but it doesn't even 1hko Garchomp, who in return can 1hko you with Stone Edge.

Switch Dragon Pulse for something else like Focus Blast, Earthquake, or maybe even Air Slash.

Dragon pulse is a 2hko on Dragonite and a possible OHKO after rocks. The calc pretends multi scale isnt broken after the first hit. its 33.3-39.5% with multi scale up and 66.6-79% without so its always gonna be a 2HKO.

It also gives you an answer to charizard X. People can choose not to mega the first turn while they dragon dance (in which case dragon pulse does 41.6-48.9 percent) but that is only if the switch in to Char Y was the first time they switched in to the battle. I run air balloon heatran with roar so I can phase it out and then finish it off with dragon pulse later if it tries to set up on Charizard Y (where it does 83.2-97.9%)

The final use is as you said predicted dragon switches such as garchomp or to finish off mega garchomp.

Edit: oh and Lati@s...Anyway dragon pulse has its uses but if you run it you should replace roost, not Focus Blast/EQ. Also i gotta say there is zero point to running air slash because neutral fire blast does more damage than super effective air slash

 

[SoulRed12]

I'd rather run HP Fighting than Focus Blast Miss. Yes, Focus Miss is good for Ttar and Heatran, but at the end of the day it's 70% accuracy is so damn unreliable. Personally, I'd skip over Focus Miss and take up Air Slash - hits Fighting types like AV Conk pretty nicely and flinch haxing is always good.

But HP Fighting is 1/2 the power of Focus Blast, so it'll do the same damage in two turns that focus blast will do in one turn or, two turns if it misses one turn. So it has a 70% chance of being more efficient than HP Fighting, and only 9% chance to be any less efficient than HP Fighting. Basically getting rid of Focus Blast for anything leaves you 100% vulnerable to T-tar because you can no longer OHKO him, even if only 70% of the time.

This might be completely stupid, but what about a bulky bellyzard set for Mega X with roost? Anyone tried that?

Something like:

Charizard @ Charizardite X
252 HP / 252 Spe / 4 Atk
Jolly Nature
Trait: Blaze
-Belly Drum
-Fire Punch / Flare Blitz
-Dragon Claw
-Roost

XZard tends to force a lot of switches, so you tend to have at least one turn to Belly Drum, then maybe roost with XZard's bulk. If only his speed was a bit higher...

 

[Immortal]

XZard tends to force a lot of switches, so you tend to have at least one turn to Belly Drum, then maybe roost with XZard's bulk. If only his speed was a bit higher...

You said it right there, 100 base speed just isnt enough, after a belly drum they only need something faster than you capable of dealing 50%,if you want power just run a dragon dance set with an adamant nature. it really needs the speed and 394 attack + tough claws+ a dragon dance hits insanely hard as is

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

I prefer Air Slash over Fire Blast for accuracy reasons when facing Mega Venasaur, other than than its not useful and Focus Blast or Earthquake is a better option.

Dragon Pulse is useless on Charizard Y. The only possible use I could see for Dragon Pulse is against Adamant Charizard X.

Air Slash is completely useless on ZardY neutral fire blast hits harder, dragon pulse is mainly used to not be hard walled by ZardX and the Latis but usually roost is more useful.

ZardY should always carry Fire Blast, Solarbeam and Focus Blast (unless you really want to kill the blobs then a set with Flare Blitz, EQ, Solar beam and roost is acceptable).

You said it right there, 100 base speed just isnt enough, after a belly drum they only need something faster than you capable of dealing 50%,if you want power just run a dragon dance set with an adamant nature. it really needs the speed and 394 attack + tough claws+ a dragon dance hits insanely hard as is

Belly Drum is rather gimmicky on ZardX, but on such a set you would run Flame Charge as fire stab to boost its speed (+6 Flame Charge still does plenty of damage).

 

[MAMP]

The reason that you would run Dragon Pulse on Charizard Y is to hit Latias and Latios, who I believe are both 2hko'd after Stealth Rock.

 

[dkkc19]

Dragon pulse is a 2hko on Dragonite and a possible OHKO after rocks. The calc pretends multi scale isnt broken after the first hit. its 33.3-39.5% with multi scale up and 66.6-79% without so its always gonna be a 2HKO.

It also gives you an answer to charizard X. People can choose not to mega the first turn while they dragon dance (in which case dragon pulse does 41.6-48.9 percent) but that is only if the switch in to Char Y was the first time they switched in to the battle. I run air balloon heatran with roar so I can phase it out and then finish it off with dragon pulse later if it tries to set up on Charizard Y (where it does 83.2-97.9%)

The final use is as you said predicted dragon switches such as garchomp or to finish off mega garchomp. Anyway dragon pulse has its uses but you better have a damn good answer to heatran on your team if you run it, unless you are gonna pass on running roost. But yeah i gotta say there is zero point to running air slash because neutral fire blast does more damage than super effective air slash

I forgot about multiscale, it changes the whole calculation.

As for Charizard X, it doesn't need to Dragon Dance to beat Charizard Y if its carrying Thunder Punch. It can take one Draon Pulse and knock it out with Thunder Punch.
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Thunder Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 294-348 (98.6 - 116.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO.
And for those who don't carry Thunder Punch, then can DD, take a Dragon Pulse and proceed to 1hko Charizard Y with Dragon Claw. So if Charizard X got a free switch in, there isn't much Charizard Y could do about. (Without Stealth rock)

Dragon Pulse can be useful if you are going with 4 attacks, but 3 attacks + Roost is far better than 4 attacks unless you have a flawless hazard control. Solarbeam, Fire Blast along with one of Focus Blast or Earthquake is a must on Charizard Y.

Air Slash is good for one thing, and its dealing with Mega Venusaur. It 2hkos it (Just like Fire Blast) but its more accurate with a flinch chance. And, if the Sun is gone, it hits harder than Fire Blast, but thats about it.

 

[dkkc19]

Air Slash is completely useless on ZardY neutral fire blast hits harder, dragon pulse is mainly used to not be hard walled by ZardX and the Latis but usually roost is more useful.

ZardY should always carry Fire Blast, Solarbeam and Focus Blast (unless you really want to kill the blobs then a set with Flare Blitz, EQ, Solar beam and roost is acceptable).



Belly Drum is rather gimmicky on ZardX, but on such a set you would run Flame Charge as fire stab to boost its speed (+6 Flame Charge still does plenty of damage).

Air Slash is good for one thing, and its dealing with Mega Venusaur. It 2hkos it (Just like Fire Blast) but its more accurate with a flinch chance. And, if the Sun is gone, it hits harder than Fire Blast, but thats about it.

I forgot about Latias. But then again, is it worth it to gain some 2hkos against some Dragons and lose on EQ/Focus Blast or Roost? I don't think so.

 

[haunter]

Fire blast from modest Zard already 2hkos Latios even without SR, while dragon pulse doesn't ohko, so DP isn't really necessary for Latios especially since it usually lacks a recovering move. Latias takes 45.3 - 53.6% from a sun boosted fire blast, but it can outstall Zard with roost/recover. Dragon pulse does 62.9 - 74.1% to offensive Latias, so Zard might be able to beat it 1 vs 1 with DP.

 

[Everstoned]

This set is a little gimmicky, but I've been running a Sub-Punching Zard Y set recently and it actually does well when it is played right. The key is using the switches that Zard naturally brings to set up a sub as they switch into their Zard Y counter (heatran/tyranitar/blissey hopefully), and then hit the opponent with a powerful SE hit. It functions like the all out set (Fire Blast/Solar Beam/Focus Blast/Dragon Pulse) except it doesn't hit dragons in exchange for hitting your standard Zard Y checks much harder. Its also 100% accurate behind a sub, unlike Focus Blast. And unlike the mixed sets, you don't need to sacrifice special attacking power because investing in attack won't really change any 2hkos or 1hkos. Well, except for chansey, but the point of this set is to get a ton of free damage on it and kill it with something else. The set I've been running is:

Charizard @ Charizardite Y
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Hasty/Naive Nature
- Substitute
- Focus Punch
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam

Hasty or naive is based on whether you want to live scalds or bullet punches but it doesn't really matter. This isn't gonna sweep as it has very little longevity, but it is a fantastic wallbreaker and will do a number to the opponent before it goes down.

Just some calcs:

4 Atk Mega Charizard Y Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 412-488 (101.9 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

4 Atk Mega Charizard Y Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 316-372 (78.2 - 92%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

4 Atk Mega Charizard Y Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 214-252 (55.4 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

4 Atk Mega Charizard Y Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 406-478 (56.8 - 66.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

4 Atk Mega Charizard Y Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 296-350 (42 - 49.7%) -- 89.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

 

[kabbes]

How do you get a 2HKO with your sub broken?