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Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Other Counter That Pokemon! (Final Battle Friday @ 12 PM EST)
- Thread starter Halcyon.
- Start date
- Status
Anyways, here's my nomination (Sorry for the double post)
Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 212 SDef / 252 HP / 44 Spd
Calm Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
While Specially Defensive Rotom-W may have fallen out of favor this generation, it's still quite an effective Pokemon. Since the opponent's Dragonite isn't running Lum Berry, Rotom-W actually is super helpful for Burning Dragonite and crippling it for the rest of the match. SpDef Rotom-W is also a really great counter to Greninja, taking all of its attack with ease. Finally, with Volt Switch, it actually forms a quite effective VoltTurn core with Lando-I, allowing it to keep momentum up, unlike other defensive walls. Oh also forgot to mention this, but the 44 Speed EVs are to make sure we outspeed Jolly Azumarill and Will-O-Wisp/Volt Switch it before it can Play Rough.
Overall, SpDef Rotom-W is a good answer to both our opponent's Pokemon that can form an effective VoltTurn core with Lando-I to keep momentum up.
Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 212 SDef / 252 HP / 44 Spd
Calm Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
While Specially Defensive Rotom-W may have fallen out of favor this generation, it's still quite an effective Pokemon. Since the opponent's Dragonite isn't running Lum Berry, Rotom-W actually is super helpful for Burning Dragonite and crippling it for the rest of the match. SpDef Rotom-W is also a really great counter to Greninja, taking all of its attack with ease. Finally, with Volt Switch, it actually forms a quite effective VoltTurn core with Lando-I, allowing it to keep momentum up, unlike other defensive walls. Oh also forgot to mention this, but the 44 Speed EVs are to make sure we outspeed Jolly Azumarill and Will-O-Wisp/Volt Switch it before it can Play Rough.
Overall, SpDef Rotom-W is a good answer to both our opponent's Pokemon that can form an effective VoltTurn core with Lando-I to keep momentum up.
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Ferrothorn is certainly a good option for Team 1, it is the first thing I thought of as well. Dragonite isn't exactly a threatening Pokémon that needs to be checked, and Ferrothorn has Iron Barbs which is great for punishing U-turn from Greninja. It's also a solid switchin to Dragonite. It has some flaws though; Ferrothorn has even worse offensive presence than Dragonite, for example Team 2 can respond with something like Breloom. This would be terrible for Team 1, Breloom can switch in on Ferrothorn pretty much all the time and Spore is very crippling (you can try to absorb the sleep with Ferrothorn but then it will just Drain Punch you). Also, picking a Stealth Rock user that early, imo, means that it needs to be one with notable offensive presence. Ferrothorn isn't exactly something that can reliably keep Stealth Rock on the field really, since Team 2 can respond with the proper hazard remover, for example bulky Rapid Spin Excadrill means that if Team 1 wants to keep Stealth Rock up they also need it to pair it with a spinblocker that isn't Aegislash or Gengar, so you're pretty much left being forced to use something like Jellicent. That, or just give up on having Stealth Rock on the field all the time, which really is too bad since that's how Landorus can probably break though Team 2.
It's still a cool pick though, it will pull its weight and right now it gives Team 1 an advantage over Team 2, but I think it might be too easily abusable by Team 2 as well.
It's still a cool pick though, it will pull its weight and right now it gives Team 1 an advantage over Team 2, but I think it might be too easily abusable by Team 2 as well.
Don't sleep on this little guy
Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
IVs: 0 Atk
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold nature
- Wish
- Scald
- Protect
- Toxic
U-Turn Landorus is worn down fairly easily by its own Life Orb + U-Turn combination and by Stealth Rock constantly chipping away at its HP, making a Wish passer an extremely appetizing option. Vaporeon doesn't just pass off huge Wishes though, it also makes Greninja's Water move more or less useless until Vaporeon is removed. This particular Vaporeon is carrying Toxic which is the best status to have on that particular Dragonite since it basically neuters any survivability it thought it had. Not to mention that Vaporeon beats Dragonite 1 on 1 because D-Nite isn't carrying a status of its own. This also means Vaporeon doesn't need Heal Bell at this point. Downsides to this are little offensive presence except the annoying burn chance from Scald, that we might want Heal Bell later on down the line, and the team will NEED a status sponge. Other than that, This Vaporeon seems pretty solid overall.
Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
IVs: 0 Atk
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold nature
- Wish
- Scald
- Protect
- Toxic
U-Turn Landorus is worn down fairly easily by its own Life Orb + U-Turn combination and by Stealth Rock constantly chipping away at its HP, making a Wish passer an extremely appetizing option. Vaporeon doesn't just pass off huge Wishes though, it also makes Greninja's Water move more or less useless until Vaporeon is removed. This particular Vaporeon is carrying Toxic which is the best status to have on that particular Dragonite since it basically neuters any survivability it thought it had. Not to mention that Vaporeon beats Dragonite 1 on 1 because D-Nite isn't carrying a status of its own. This also means Vaporeon doesn't need Heal Bell at this point. Downsides to this are little offensive presence except the annoying burn chance from Scald, that we might want Heal Bell later on down the line, and the team will NEED a status sponge. Other than that, This Vaporeon seems pretty solid overall.
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Here's my nomination:
Slowbro @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Slack Off
- Thunder Wave
Defensive Slowbro only takes 34-40% from Greninja's U-turn, so Leftovers and Regenerator will recover off the damage. Obviously, Slowbro shits on Dragonite too. I might change the last move to Psychic, Toxic, or Fire Blast if people think any of those would be better. There are also several other physical threats which Slowbro discourages Team 2 from picking. Since Team 1 already has U-turn Landorus, Slowbro makes a great partner since Regenerator is a momentum-grabbing ability.
Edit: I changed Psychic to Thunder Wave because it discourages offensive threats from switching in against Slowbro.
Slowbro @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Slack Off
- Thunder Wave
Defensive Slowbro only takes 34-40% from Greninja's U-turn, so Leftovers and Regenerator will recover off the damage. Obviously, Slowbro shits on Dragonite too. I might change the last move to Psychic, Toxic, or Fire Blast if people think any of those would be better. There are also several other physical threats which Slowbro discourages Team 2 from picking. Since Team 1 already has U-turn Landorus, Slowbro makes a great partner since Regenerator is a momentum-grabbing ability.
Edit: I changed Psychic to Thunder Wave because it discourages offensive threats from switching in against Slowbro.
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I'd run Fire Blast over Psychic only because it makes us less deadweight against a future Bisharp pick which absolutely destroys this set. Also gives us a move Greninja can't switch in on for free.Here's my nomination:
Slowbro @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Slack Off
- Psychic
Defensive Slowbro only takes 34-40% from Greninja's U-turn, so Leftovers and Regenerator will recover off the damage. Obviously, Slowbro shits on Dragonite too. I might change the last move to Thunder Wave, Toxic, or Fire Blast if people think any of those would be better. There are also several other physical threats which Slowbro discourages Team 2 from picking. Since Team 1 already has U-turn Landorus, Slowbro makes a great partner since Regenerator is a momentum-grabbing ability.
Sylveon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 244 HP / 252 SpA / 12 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Shadowball
- Baton Pass
Sylveon threatens to 2HKO Dragonite, and OHKO Greninja outright. The best Dragonite and Greninja can do in return is 3HKO with Earthquake and Hydro Pump respectively. Neither of these two Pokemon can switch in directly, or beat Sylveon 1v1. Psyshock & Shadow Ball offer superior coverage, hitting potential threats later on to this team, such as Mega Venusaur & Aegislash. This set is hard stopped by Special Walls who resist Psyshock, such as Heatran, Baton Pass gives us the added advantage of scouting the potential switch.
EDIT: I have withdrawn my Sylveon submission, please see my new submission below.
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Deoxys-S @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
Evs: 20 Atk / 252 SpA / 236 Spe
Nature: Naive
-Psycho Boost
-Superpower
-Ice Beam
-Stealth Rock
Dragonite may hard counter Landorus, but team 1 can keep the momentum with U-turn. To keep that momentum, team 1 wants something that threatens both members of team 2 so far. Offensive Deoxys-S does that. Stealth Rock places pressure on Dragonite, making it easy to KO if team 1 doesn't let it Roost. In general, if team 1 chooses Deoxys-S, it chooses for an offensive playstyle that tries to threaten as much pokemon on team 2 as possible.
I like Halycons Ferrothorn as well. It moves team 1's playstyle in a different direction, but it does a fantastic job countering both Dragonite and Greninja.
Ability: Pressure
Evs: 20 Atk / 252 SpA / 236 Spe
Nature: Naive
-Psycho Boost
-Superpower
-Ice Beam
-Stealth Rock
Dragonite may hard counter Landorus, but team 1 can keep the momentum with U-turn. To keep that momentum, team 1 wants something that threatens both members of team 2 so far. Offensive Deoxys-S does that. Stealth Rock places pressure on Dragonite, making it easy to KO if team 1 doesn't let it Roost. In general, if team 1 chooses Deoxys-S, it chooses for an offensive playstyle that tries to threaten as much pokemon on team 2 as possible.
I like Halycons Ferrothorn as well. It moves team 1's playstyle in a different direction, but it does a fantastic job countering both Dragonite and Greninja.
EV's: 252spatk/248HP/8atk
Nature: Mild
-Ice Beam
-Fusion Bolt
-Earth Power
-Substitute
Your standard bulky sub cube. This set takes complete advantage of the fact that Greninja can't hit it too hard so that it can set up and break Dragonite + Greninja. Unlike the scarf set I posted, the opponent can't just easily predict an Ice Beam/Fusion Bolt and switch around because sub Kyurem-Black can switch its moves around. The reason why you would run this would be to get rid of said Greninja+Dragonite since they both beat Landorus-I 1 on 1. I also like how Kyurem-Black doesn't need Stealth Rocks to completely OHKO Dragonite. This allows for more depth imo since you don't need to rely on defensive mons like Ferrothorn that can break your momentum just so you can set up Stealth Rocks, and even then they can possibly have Defog/Rapid Spin. Another thing to note about this set is that it outspeeds the Dragonite set posted and OHKOs it with Ice Beam. Earth Power is just coverage against Rotom-Wash, though you probably already knew that lol.
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I will give my two cents worth here
1) Ferrothorn - Takes next to nothing from D-Nite and can either set up Stealth Rock or Leech Seed for recovery. Rocky helmet and Iron Barbs punishes U-turn from Greninja, which when combined with Life Orb and Stealth Rock means it takes about 40 - 50% that turn alone. The most Greninja can do is Ice Beam which 3HKO Ferro (but you can Gyro Ball back to kill it). Great pick imo.
2) Vaporeon - Takes almost nothing from both D-Nite and Greninja (Extrasensory 3HKOes but you can Wish+Protect). Can also provide Wish support to teammates. Lack of offensive presence and have to rely on Toxic for damage are the only real cons for this thing. (Toxic ruins D-Nite though). Ok pick.
3) Deoxys-S - Might have some potential as a cleaner late game but picking it this early is just asking for it to be Counter Teamed and becomes dead weight. (I know you gave it Stealth Rock but if people as much as sneeze on it while it sets up Stealth Rock, it's a goner). Not that great imo.
4) Kyurem-B - risky as Ice Beam has a 41% chance to 2HKO you (guaranteed with Stealth Rock). Yes, with a scarf, you outspeed Greninja later but Fusion Bolt doesn't even OHKO an Ice-type Greninja after one round of Life Orb. Not great I think.
With that, I will nominate Sylveon.
Ability: Pixilate
Item : Leftovers
EV: 252 HP/ 252 Def / 4 SpD
Moves:
- Wish
- Protect
- Hyper Voice
- Heal Bell
Sylveon can take all of Greninja's move and Wish + Protect or Hyper Voices it to oblivion since Hydro Pump only has an 8.2 % chance to 2HKO with Stealth Rock and Leftovers (you can protect to increase your chance of surviving. while Hyper Voice does 63 - 74.8 % to a non-Dark Greninja. Sylveon only takes 25.7 - 30.3% from D-Nite's Earthquake and can Hyper Voice or Wish on it. Heal Bell is there to cure Sylveon or its teammates of status (this can be replaced with a different move if not needed). The con of this set is similar to Vaporeon, which is the lack of a threatening offensive presence although Pixilate Fairy-type attacks hurt more than Scald (you might still want that 30% hax chance to burn).
EDIT: Removed the 12 Speed and adds it to HP and SpD. This set gets walled to hell and back by Aegislash / Mega Scizor / Mega Mawile so any thoughts on Baton Pass over Heal Bell?
1) Ferrothorn - Takes next to nothing from D-Nite and can either set up Stealth Rock or Leech Seed for recovery. Rocky helmet and Iron Barbs punishes U-turn from Greninja, which when combined with Life Orb and Stealth Rock means it takes about 40 - 50% that turn alone. The most Greninja can do is Ice Beam which 3HKO Ferro (but you can Gyro Ball back to kill it). Great pick imo.
2) Vaporeon - Takes almost nothing from both D-Nite and Greninja (Extrasensory 3HKOes but you can Wish+Protect). Can also provide Wish support to teammates. Lack of offensive presence and have to rely on Toxic for damage are the only real cons for this thing. (Toxic ruins D-Nite though). Ok pick.
3) Deoxys-S - Might have some potential as a cleaner late game but picking it this early is just asking for it to be Counter Teamed and becomes dead weight. (I know you gave it Stealth Rock but if people as much as sneeze on it while it sets up Stealth Rock, it's a goner). Not that great imo.
4) Kyurem-B - risky as Ice Beam has a 41% chance to 2HKO you (guaranteed with Stealth Rock). Yes, with a scarf, you outspeed Greninja later but Fusion Bolt doesn't even OHKO an Ice-type Greninja after one round of Life Orb. Not great I think.
With that, I will nominate Sylveon.
Ability: Pixilate
Item : Leftovers
EV: 252 HP/ 252 Def / 4 SpD
Moves:
- Wish
- Protect
- Hyper Voice
- Heal Bell
Sylveon can take all of Greninja's move and Wish + Protect or Hyper Voices it to oblivion since Hydro Pump only has an 8.2 % chance to 2HKO with Stealth Rock and Leftovers (you can protect to increase your chance of surviving. while Hyper Voice does 63 - 74.8 % to a non-Dark Greninja. Sylveon only takes 25.7 - 30.3% from D-Nite's Earthquake and can Hyper Voice or Wish on it. Heal Bell is there to cure Sylveon or its teammates of status (this can be replaced with a different move if not needed). The con of this set is similar to Vaporeon, which is the lack of a threatening offensive presence although Pixilate Fairy-type attacks hurt more than Scald (you might still want that 30% hax chance to burn).
EDIT: Removed the 12 Speed and adds it to HP and SpD. This set gets walled to hell and back by Aegislash / Mega Scizor / Mega Mawile so any thoughts on Baton Pass over Heal Bell?
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While your submission is OK, you should really avoid speed creep in this project unless you're outspeeding a max speed (either neutral or bonus nature) threat since you can just get speed crept back and basically waste those EVs.
Ferrothorn:
Exactly what Tomahawk9 said above. Great pick, just bad timing. Definitely a great option later down the line when we know what team 2s Rapid Spin / Defog user is.
Rotom-W:
A solid choice. Only thing that gets to both Lando and this is Abomasnow who isn't common at all and doesn't look like a fit on team 2 at the moment. Provides Volt-Turn with Lando which is nifty. We will need a switch in for AV Conkeldurr if this is picked since we can only offensively check it at this point.
Vaporeon:
Well, I will let you guys discuss my nomination instead of repeating myself.
Specs Sylveon:
Another solid nomination. I can see a very dangerous Mega being picked to set up on this if it locks into Hyper Voice though so we must be prepared to deal with it in the future; Baton Pass somewhat remedies this so good call on your part. Forcing a mega out of team 2 early is not a bad option by any means though. Speed creep is useless in this project so filling out HP is probably the better option (HolyAvatar ninjaed me).
Deoxys-S:
It has the same problem as Ferrothorn in that you don't want Stealth Rock on the team this early for obvious reasons. This is worse than Ferrothorn though because a very likely candidate for team 2, in Aegislash, hard walls your set. Team 2 will more than likely be something along the lines of Dragonite / Greninja / Steel / Fairy / Hazard Removal / Filler with the way it looks and Aegi is a very likely candidate for the steel slot.
Scarf Kyurem-B:
Looks good, although revealing a scarfer this early is not ideal. We should hold off on this one until team 2 picks their steel type
Support Sylveon:
Was a very good one as well but remove the speed. It will be interesting to see what steel this forces out of team 2 if it gets picked.
Good show so far people
Exactly what Tomahawk9 said above. Great pick, just bad timing. Definitely a great option later down the line when we know what team 2s Rapid Spin / Defog user is.
Rotom-W:
A solid choice. Only thing that gets to both Lando and this is Abomasnow who isn't common at all and doesn't look like a fit on team 2 at the moment. Provides Volt-Turn with Lando which is nifty. We will need a switch in for AV Conkeldurr if this is picked since we can only offensively check it at this point.
Vaporeon:
Well, I will let you guys discuss my nomination instead of repeating myself.
Specs Sylveon:
Another solid nomination. I can see a very dangerous Mega being picked to set up on this if it locks into Hyper Voice though so we must be prepared to deal with it in the future; Baton Pass somewhat remedies this so good call on your part. Forcing a mega out of team 2 early is not a bad option by any means though. Speed creep is useless in this project so filling out HP is probably the better option (HolyAvatar ninjaed me).
Deoxys-S:
It has the same problem as Ferrothorn in that you don't want Stealth Rock on the team this early for obvious reasons. This is worse than Ferrothorn though because a very likely candidate for team 2, in Aegislash, hard walls your set. Team 2 will more than likely be something along the lines of Dragonite / Greninja / Steel / Fairy / Hazard Removal / Filler with the way it looks and Aegi is a very likely candidate for the steel slot.
Scarf Kyurem-B:
Looks good, although revealing a scarfer this early is not ideal. We should hold off on this one until team 2 picks their steel type
Support Sylveon:
Was a very good one as well but remove the speed. It will be interesting to see what steel this forces out of team 2 if it gets picked.
Good show so far people
The speed EVs don't really matter, but they let Sylveon out run minimum speed Tyranitar and other base 60 Speed Pokemon, which are mainly walls. The drop in bulk from losing 3 HP is negligible. The main reason I really chose the set, is that, Sylveon deters Team 2 from running something like Mega Venusaur, which could become a problem for Team 1 depending on what our team options become later on.
Sylveon limits Team 2 from running a solid offensive Pokemon that can switch in safely to our other proposed sets; Pokemon, which may also threaten Landorus. The sheer power of Spec Sylveon pretty much forces Team 2 to pick another Pokemon that can both safely check/counter not only Sylveon itself, but also Landorus thanks to Baton Pass (lol good luck).
Let's remember that Team 2 already runs two Pokemon that threaten Landorus, if we can limit that number indirectly by forcing them to run a wall, we're creating a chance for Landorus to switch in safely and wreak havoc.
Ferrothorn:
Rotom-W:
Vaporeon:
Slowbro:
Deoxys-S
Sylveon
Kyurem-B
EDIT: Included Kyurem-B thoughts
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Reprobate, I see your point about the offensive threat that a defensive Sylveon opens up to which is why I'm asking for more opinions on Baton Pass over Heal Bell. Specs Sylveon has one thing I dislike about a Choice user - it's really slow and needs to eat 2 hits to attack once (one while switching in and the other when you are outsped. Couple that with hazards it might not last very long). I do acknowledge its offensive prowess, though.
Also, I believe Team 1 is picking its third member after this so we can think of limiting the other team's options with that pick later.
Also, I believe Team 1 is picking its third member after this so we can think of limiting the other team's options with that pick later.
Thanks for the input, Random Passerby. I was not aware of the fact that we were picking two members for Team 1 (how observant of me). Hence, why I was so adamant on an offensive partner to Landorus, my apologies all. Looking back on the proposed sets, each provide great support to the team we will be creating to combat Team 2. Currently I like the look of running a Sub Kyurem-B set I had suggested earlier (over scarf) along side a support Pokemon such as Clefable. Let us wait and see what comes of this rounds voting, I still hope my input in naming offensive counters to each set helps us in choosing a third member for Team 1.
Will definitely take this into consideration. Also gonna post a better set because in hind sight you're probably right. Thanks for the criticism man! :]
Also about Ferrothorn, I feel like it's a good option but like other people have said it's too early to slap him on the team as team 2 can easily use a Defog user and or use Magnezone to trap and kill Ferrothorn outright. Like WreckDra said though, it would be a better option later on in the thread once they reveal their Defogger/Spinner, because they're definitely gonna use one of those if they have Dragonite.
So Vaporeon vs. Slowbro, I feel like Slowbro might be the better option since he can take hits from Dragonite way better, although Vaporeon has its merits. Also kinda biased on this one because every time I use Vaporeon it gets absolutely destroyed lol.
Specs Sylveon is kinda weird. I think opting for a standard defensive one would be better because you still KO Greninja and 2HKO Dragonite (rough estimate on Greninja, though it can't hit you too hard to the point where you have to be forced to switch). I think opting for something that can handle Greninja is more ideal right now than something that handles Dragonite tbh, because Greninja can still plow through us with some prior damage on Sylveon if we choose to use it. Most things that are being suggested for the sake of handling Greninja can handle Dragonite anyway. (See: Kyurem-Black, Ferrothorn, Deoxys-S, Slowbro)
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Azumarill @ Assault Vest
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 16 HP / 252 Atk / 240 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Play Rough
- Knock Off
- Aqua Jet
My nomination for now. It's a good switchin to both Greninja and Dragonite. The only move from Greninja that Azumarill doesn't resist is Extrasensory, which does <30% on average. (Dark Pulse would have made it easier for Azumarill to take care of it since it would resist all its moves). I wouldn't say this should be the primary switchin to Dragonite, because Earthquake can wear it down and you don't want that, you want to keep its health up for checking Greninja. Also, this set is pretty powerful still, has Knock Off which cripples most potential switchins (except Mega Venusaur), and Aqua Jet which can pick off weakened stuff if Team 2 decides to pick a sweeper that doesn't resist water.
I actually do not think it is a bad idea for Team 1 to reveal its hazard setter right now. Team 1 will almost certainly save its mega pick for last, so Team 2 will have a chance to respond to the hazard setter for Team 1 at some point anyway. Ferrothorn kills two birds with one stone; it might not be that easy to find a Pokemon that can counter Team 2's picks and set SR later. If we pick Ferrothorn now, Team 1 will have plenty of opportunities to make picks which put pressure on Team 2's hazard remover.
AV Azumarill, huh. It actually came to my mind before Sylveon but my concern is it can be hard walled by Ferrothorn. No reliable recovery means it can't switch in too many times because it is actually 3HKOed by Extrasensory after Stealth Rock. (Example: Azu switches in, takes 12% from SR and 30% from Extrasensory. Now, you are at at Extrasensory's 2HKO range).
Azumarill @ Assault Vest
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 16 HP / 252 Atk / 240 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Play Rough
- Knock Off
- Aqua Jet
Clefable Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Wish
- Protect
A perfect switch in against Dragonite, once Clefable comes in she can start setting up Calm Mind boosts, and not worry about Greninja either. Calm Mind allows Clefable to pose an offensive threat after a few boosts while also making it difficult to take out with special attacks. Moonblast is Clefable's most reliable STAB move, and it's also good to note that at the beginning of the match, it's better to go for Moonblast as opposed to Calm Mind, as it will be useful in wearing down many of Clefable's switch-ins such as Bisharp and Aegislash. With Wish + Protect, Clefable is able to keep itself healthy as it uses Calm Mind, while also acting as a key team player. Clefable is checked/countered by steel type Pokemon, all of which are threatened by Landorus.
I recommend using a Magic Guard set replacing Wish with Softboiled and Protect with Flamethrower. As it is right now, it is way too easy for Team 2 to just put any Steel type on their team and hard wall Clefable. Unaware isn't that useful in my opinion because Team 2 will just avoid picking a setup sweeper, or will pick one with enough raw power to break past Clefable without any boosts.
Clefable Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Wish
- Protect
A perfect switch in against Dragonite, once Clefable comes in she can start setting up Calm Mind boosts, and not worry about Greninja either. Calm Mind allows Clefable to pose an offensive threat after a few boosts while also making it difficult to take out with special attacks. Moonblast is Clefable's most reliable STAB move, and it's also good to note that at the beginning of the match, it's better to go for Moonblast as opposed to Calm Mind, as it will be useful in wearing down many of Clefable's switch-ins such as Bisharp and Aegislash. With Wish + Protect, Clefable is able to keep itself healthy as it uses Calm Mind, while also acting as a key team player. Clefable is checked/countered by steel type Pokemon, all of which are threatened by Landorus.
Weavile @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
-Ice Punch
-Knock Off
-Low Kick
-Ice Shard
I'd like to nominate Weavile for this round, for a couple of reasons.
Firstly, Band Weavile is one of the few mons that can KO Dragonite(even with the HP investment) through Multiscale, while also being able to KO Greninja with barely any prior damage.
Band Weavile also offers a lot of offensive support for Landorus as it can Knock Off leftovers from walls, making it easier for Landorus to get the KO.
I feel that a defensive pick is one that should occur later in the project, as it is better to pick a wall once we know one or two more of the threats we have to deal with.
Keeping Wish is fine, supporting Landorus with it will be huge since U-Turn + Life Orb and Stealth Rock is rather nasty. Softboiled helps Clefable out more though so it is really a toss-up between the two. Your call. Maybe have both on the same set even though this is VERY redundant.
Definitely make Unaware Magic Guard instead though since it helps a lot more in general and team 2 doesn't have a set up sweeper yet
Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 232 HP / 24 Atk / 252 SDef
Careful Nature
- Roost
- Bullet Punch
- Knock Off
- Swords Dance
Mega Scizor can be an excellent contender for team 1's second slot. While being a great partner to Landorus, for its ability to take on non-hp fire Lati@s, it also counters and can set-up on both dragonite and greninja. (The evs are made to avoid the 2HKO from Greninjas Hydro Pump) Scizor is also a great late-game sweeper for team 1, finishing of the remains from Landorus's destruction. It even more fits into the team with its ability to reliably take on ice-types, which is also a big plus.
That's my nomination. Thoughts?
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