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Battle Maison Discussion & Records
- Thread starter NoCheese
- Start date
Yeah its Head Smash is pretty obnoxious. Could be the most powerful attack in the maison after Lickilicky's Explosion and Aurorus's Hyper Beam, not sure
Well, assuming Skarm doesn't get crit, you can always use Counter for the KO. And without a crit it only has a 18.8% chance to KO Clefable as you said. So assuming they're both at full HP that's less than a 1.5% chance you lose to it immediately.
Ulisses Perez Silva, sasuke-kun19, Pikiwyn , SimicCombine
So it looks like I am not the only one trying to reach 1000 in triples. I am currently at 650 but I will be away for a few weeks so I won’t have the chance to see anyone’s progress. Good luck to everyone, but I will be the one to reach the top spot in triples.
So it looks like I am not the only one trying to reach 1000 in triples. I am currently at 650 but I will be away for a few weeks so I won’t have the chance to see anyone’s progress. Good luck to everyone, but I will be the one to reach the top spot in triples.
I love do Protect when a Lickilicky does Explosion haha
I think the Close Combat Guts Machamp hits as hard has it.
I do Protect + Wish + Protect + Switch + Protect and I try to recover during he goes for Struggle but that's not easy to take Head Smash + Struggle xS
That's the con... I don't have Quagsire anymore because of its too much weaknesses against grass sweepers. Ok I can switch to Skarm, but what about the Fighting Pokémons (Sawk, Machamp, Conkel...) who hit very hard and can Taunt... Clefable <3
And I think I'll learn again Protect to my Chansey and delete Counter because of that: Counter let me with less HP for the next Pokemon and it can hard hit...
But be cool: I already deleted my Wish Chansey lol I'll come back with Protect + Soft :)
I'm just trying to lose so I can make my post, upload the interesting battles, then move on and start trying to break Doubles. Except I can't intentionally play poorly, and Eppie's team is really really hard to lose with. It's rather annoying, actually. At least the battles are over quickly.
Uphaze
Protect on Chansey without Wish (and obviously, without Leftovers as well) seems a bit odd and only useful in very specific situations, i'm not sure if it's really the better move overall. I see your point with Tyrantrum, though, but it made me thinking if there wasn't any better way to deal with Tyrantrum for your team with smart playing or slight moveset changes (replacing team members would obviously add new weak points and I think the synergy of your team is pretty good as it is).
To get a better overview over your options, I decided to analyze your matchup against Band Tyrantrum and all your possible actions; basically, you can face Tyrantrum in three different situations:
- You have a weakened Clefable/Chansey/Skarm out and can't avoid sacrificing a mon and then counter it with Skarm/Chans. In this case, it's pretty irrelevant which moves you choose besides those that are mandatory for the strategy.
- You have Chansey or Skarm out that can tank a Head Smash and retaliate with Counter. Again, it's irrelevant which other moves you choose, because that's the most effective strategy dealing with Band Tyrantrum for your team anyway.
I won't go into further detail with those situations, because it's really only the third one you might be able to do something about with smart plays and/or minor moveset changes. The situation in question is the following:
- You have Clefable out at full health. Switching (usually) doesn't make sense, as it can 2HKO anything, so you have to take the risk and tank a Head Smash (after using Protect to scout/drain PP). Turn 2, you have a 20% chance that it misses, a 5% chance to be OHKOed by a critical hit, a 14.1% chance to be OHKOed by a high damage roll, and survive severely weakened with a 60.9% chance.
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 177-208 (87.6 - 102.9%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO (note: the calc doesn't consider the miss chance and crit chance, so the given OHKO chance slightly differs from my numbers above, which more accurately reflect the real situation)
Now, while you stay in, you can't use protect again for obvious reasons and Toxic doesn't make much sense as well against a pokemon that you can't toxic stall anyway and that is choice locked into a 5 PP move (or are you using Flamethrower in this slot now? anyway Flamethrower would be even more useless against a 4x resist). That leaves you with two viable options: using wish or just moonblasting him.
Assuming the latter, this gives you the following calcs:
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyrantrum: 156-186 (99.3 - 118.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
4 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyrantrum: 158-188 (100.6 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(On a side note: it's quite hilarious that just those 4 EVs someone in this thread suggested to move from special attack to speed [and i think in general he's right with his point that defensive pokes benefit more from 4 speed than 4 (special) attack] make the difference between a certain KO and a possible, albeit very unlikely, survival)
This sounds promising, as you could guarantee (well kind of, it still has a chance to kill you before you can do so) a straight up OHKO to a massive threat to your team without having to riskily play around it.
However, i do understand why this option looks unappealing to you: Clefable will be at very low health afterwards, and before it can heal itself, it will very often have to take a hit, which it has trouble surviving even with two turns of leftovers recovery (leaving you at minimum ~12,4% and maximum ~24,3%). Thus, if you know that you won't need Clefable anymore (last mon Tyrantrum, maybe against trainers who only use pokemon that can be handled by Skarm and/or Chans or are at least very likely to do so), this might be the best option, but if not, an alternate way of dealing with this Tyrantrum set would indeed be very helpful.
This leads us to the second option to use in this situation: Wish.
Using Wish (followed by Protect next turn) allows Clefable to stay at good health (~62,4% minimum and ~74,3% maximum), and while it doesn't damage Tyrantrum at all, it reduces its Head Smash PP to two. On the other hand, this also means Clefable won't be tanking another hit and you have to either sacrifice it or switch out.
I won't go into detail about the first option, because if you're willing to sacrifice Clefable, you'd be better off using Moonblast turn 2, since this actually gives you a good chance of beating Tyrantrum in the process.
So it comes down to the second option, and depending on which pokemon you choose to take the Head Smash, you get the following results:
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 259-306 (72.5 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Skarmory: 150-177 (87.2 - 102.9%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
This means, if it doesn't miss (which you shouldn't count on for obvious reasons), and you switch in Skarmory, it will always survive (due to sturdy), but be a very low health and even if you drain the last Head Smash PP with Protect, you have no chance of surviving the Struggle afterwards:
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Struggle vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Skarmory: 34-40 (19.7 - 23.2%) -- possible 5HKO
Even if you switch out to Chansey or Clefable (the latter would probably be the better choice, because even with two consecutive crits, Tyrantrum won't be able to KO Clefable with Struggle if you protect the turn after you come in, and thus you have a good chance to safely get back to full health with Clefable).
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Struggle vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 39-47 (19.3 - 23.2%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Struggle vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable on a critical hit: 59-70 (29.2 - 34.6%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
While this may also work out okay, it is again a flawed way of dealing with Tyrantrum, because just as going for the kill with Moonblast, this will leave one of your team members severly weakened to the point it is quite likely it won't be able to recover its health (though, due to Skarmory's superior Speed, extensive pool of resistances and instant recovery, its chances are probably somewhat better than Clefable's).
Now, left with an unsatisifying result again, let's look at the last remaining option:
Switching into Chansey after stalling out 3 Head Smash PP with Protect-Wish-Protect.
This situation gives us the following calcs:
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 259-306 (72.5 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey on a critical hit: 390-459 (109.2 - 128.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
While Chansey has a 95% chance of surviving the switchin (considering crit and miss chances), your current Chansey set - lacking protect - won't be able to do anything and thus just be killed by the second Head Smash (you have only a 33,75% chance to survive, if at least one Head Smash misses and neither crits).
Letting Clefable get weakened and sacrificing Chansey is obviously a bad way to deal with Tyrantrum, but you still have one other option:
Switching Chansey in the fourth Head Smash as described above, but then directly switchin out again, bringing in Skarmory (sacrificing Clefable, again, doesn't make any sense). However, this variant is clearly inferior to switching Skarmory in the fourth Head Smash and absorbing the fifth with Protect, and thus shouldn't be considered as well.
So while you do have two options that give you good chances to beat Tyrantrum, both of them come at the high risk of losing at least one of your team members - that are all important because you can't 'revenge kill' anything and have to rely on defensive synergy to cover anything - to the opponent following next.
Looking at the movepools of Clefable (which hardly can sacrifice a moveslot anyway), Chansey and Skarmory, I unfortunately couldn't find a better option of dealing with this matter than your suggestion of Protect on Chansey as well. Assuming Tyrantrum comes in against full health Clefable, this opens up the following possibilities:
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 259-306 (72.5 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey on a critical hit: 390-459 (109.2 - 128.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Struggle vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 58-69 (16.2 - 19.3%) -- possible 6HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Struggle vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey on a critical hit: 87-103 (24.3 - 28.8%) -- 99.2% chance to 4HKO
This means, there is a 5% chance that it kills Chansey with a crit immediately, while 95% of the time you manage to tank the fourth Head Smash and block the last one with Protect. This leaves you at minimum 14,3% and maximum 27,5%, thus being able to survive the following Struggle most of the time, but there is a notable chance that it 2HKOes you after a high damage roll with Head Smash or with a Struggle crit.
Again, you would be able to switch Chansey out after removing the last Head Smash PP (which might be especially advisable after a high Head Smash roll, but it can 2HKO you with a crit + max damage Struggle even if Head Smash did minimum damage before, so you're never completely safe), but then again, this leaves you with a Chansey at low health, and thus with the same problems as the other solutions.
You could stay in and hope it doesn't kill, and then recover back Chansey's health, thus leaving you with all three pokemon at good health, but it's still very risky considering you rely on luck in terms of no crits and no high damage rolls against both Clefable and Chansey.
In addition, if you replace Counter with Protect on Chansey, you're in trouble if Tyrantrum comes in against Chansey itself. As you can't just go for the kill with counter, you again have to stall out its PP, and as Head Smash has a high chance to 2HKO Chansey even when it uses Softboiled, you probably won't be able to stall out all of it's PP with Chansey alone. With Protect-Softboiled-Protect, you're up against Tyrantrum with 2 PP remaining, and have to decide if you risk Chansey getting killed or switch out. However, while both Skarmory and Clefable usually are able to tank a Head Smash and can drain the last PP with Protect, they are unable to survive the Struggle following afterwards, thus forcing you to switch again, which results in a very similar situation to the other solutions, leaving an important team member at very low health, possible unable to recover. Thus, even though Protect helps to deal with Tyrantrum in one situation, it actually is worse than Counter in another situtation against the same Tyrantrum.
Anyway, thinking further about alternative options, I came up with the idea of giving Skamory enough physical defense to be able to always tank Head Smash followed up by Struggle (barring crits, because a Head Smash Crit does minimum 100% to 252/252+ Skarmory and thus it's impossible to survive Struggle afterwards; and even a Struggle crit alwalys has a chance to kill 252/252+ Skarm after it got hit by a non-crit Head Smash with a high damage roll).
However, to always survive Head Smash + Struggle even without crits, 252 HP and 212 Def EVs would be necessary, in addition to a +Def nature. Considering you also use Skarmory to handle some special attackers like OHKO users with Blizzard, this is an investment you just cannot afford.
While this idea ended up being pretty pointless, another and in some way similar thought came to my mind: Instead of letting survive Skarmory Head Smash + Struggle by modifying its EV spread, it should be able to survive the same attacks with the help of an item: Sitrus Berry.
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Struggle vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Skarmory: 34-40 (19.7 - 23.2%) -- possible 5HKO
As Struggle fails to deal 25% damage without a crit even with your specially defensive investment, you have a chance of over 95% to survive Head Smash followed up by Struggle (Tyrantrum's only chance to kill is a successful Head Smash hit with a middle to high damage roll followed up by a Struggle crit), and thus have a quite good chance to deal with Band Tyrantrum without having a team member severely weakened if it comes in against full health Clefable, as you can stall out 3 PP with Clefable without getting too low in health with Clefable (barring immediate KOs with high damage rolls/crits that can't be avoided except by putting Focus Sash on Clefable but i assume that's probably not worth it), then switch into Skarmory, always survive Head Smash with 25% upwards thanks to Sturdy + Sitrus, Protect against the last Head Smash and then Roost off damage as it kills itself with Struggle.
I cannot guarantee that I didn't overlook some other option, but I think Sitrus on Skarm is the best you can do against Tyrantrum without severely changing your team. In addition, while Skarm usually doesn't need it against weaker foes (it might even be able to preserve it by constantly staying at >50%), the Sitrus is definitely not useless in other situations besides this.
While the Lum Berry your Skarm seems to have at the moment is very useful as well, it doesn't help you against Tyrantrum at all, and considering you already got quite far with another item, Safety Goggles, it's fair to assume Skarm doesn't absolutely need the lum to work. Though you can probably judge best how important the lum really is and if it would pay off to try Sitrus or rather not.
Protect on Chansey without Wish (and obviously, without Leftovers as well) seems a bit odd and only useful in very specific situations, i'm not sure if it's really the better move overall. I see your point with Tyrantrum, though, but it made me thinking if there wasn't any better way to deal with Tyrantrum for your team with smart playing or slight moveset changes (replacing team members would obviously add new weak points and I think the synergy of your team is pretty good as it is).
To get a better overview over your options, I decided to analyze your matchup against Band Tyrantrum and all your possible actions; basically, you can face Tyrantrum in three different situations:
- You have a weakened Clefable/Chansey/Skarm out and can't avoid sacrificing a mon and then counter it with Skarm/Chans. In this case, it's pretty irrelevant which moves you choose besides those that are mandatory for the strategy.
- You have Chansey or Skarm out that can tank a Head Smash and retaliate with Counter. Again, it's irrelevant which other moves you choose, because that's the most effective strategy dealing with Band Tyrantrum for your team anyway.
I won't go into further detail with those situations, because it's really only the third one you might be able to do something about with smart plays and/or minor moveset changes. The situation in question is the following:
- You have Clefable out at full health. Switching (usually) doesn't make sense, as it can 2HKO anything, so you have to take the risk and tank a Head Smash (after using Protect to scout/drain PP). Turn 2, you have a 20% chance that it misses, a 5% chance to be OHKOed by a critical hit, a 14.1% chance to be OHKOed by a high damage roll, and survive severely weakened with a 60.9% chance.
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 177-208 (87.6 - 102.9%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO (note: the calc doesn't consider the miss chance and crit chance, so the given OHKO chance slightly differs from my numbers above, which more accurately reflect the real situation)
Now, while you stay in, you can't use protect again for obvious reasons and Toxic doesn't make much sense as well against a pokemon that you can't toxic stall anyway and that is choice locked into a 5 PP move (or are you using Flamethrower in this slot now? anyway Flamethrower would be even more useless against a 4x resist). That leaves you with two viable options: using wish or just moonblasting him.
Assuming the latter, this gives you the following calcs:
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyrantrum: 156-186 (99.3 - 118.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
4 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyrantrum: 158-188 (100.6 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(On a side note: it's quite hilarious that just those 4 EVs someone in this thread suggested to move from special attack to speed [and i think in general he's right with his point that defensive pokes benefit more from 4 speed than 4 (special) attack] make the difference between a certain KO and a possible, albeit very unlikely, survival)
This sounds promising, as you could guarantee (well kind of, it still has a chance to kill you before you can do so) a straight up OHKO to a massive threat to your team without having to riskily play around it.
However, i do understand why this option looks unappealing to you: Clefable will be at very low health afterwards, and before it can heal itself, it will very often have to take a hit, which it has trouble surviving even with two turns of leftovers recovery (leaving you at minimum ~12,4% and maximum ~24,3%). Thus, if you know that you won't need Clefable anymore (last mon Tyrantrum, maybe against trainers who only use pokemon that can be handled by Skarm and/or Chans or are at least very likely to do so), this might be the best option, but if not, an alternate way of dealing with this Tyrantrum set would indeed be very helpful.
This leads us to the second option to use in this situation: Wish.
Using Wish (followed by Protect next turn) allows Clefable to stay at good health (~62,4% minimum and ~74,3% maximum), and while it doesn't damage Tyrantrum at all, it reduces its Head Smash PP to two. On the other hand, this also means Clefable won't be tanking another hit and you have to either sacrifice it or switch out.
I won't go into detail about the first option, because if you're willing to sacrifice Clefable, you'd be better off using Moonblast turn 2, since this actually gives you a good chance of beating Tyrantrum in the process.
So it comes down to the second option, and depending on which pokemon you choose to take the Head Smash, you get the following results:
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 259-306 (72.5 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Skarmory: 150-177 (87.2 - 102.9%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
This means, if it doesn't miss (which you shouldn't count on for obvious reasons), and you switch in Skarmory, it will always survive (due to sturdy), but be a very low health and even if you drain the last Head Smash PP with Protect, you have no chance of surviving the Struggle afterwards:
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Struggle vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Skarmory: 34-40 (19.7 - 23.2%) -- possible 5HKO
Even if you switch out to Chansey or Clefable (the latter would probably be the better choice, because even with two consecutive crits, Tyrantrum won't be able to KO Clefable with Struggle if you protect the turn after you come in, and thus you have a good chance to safely get back to full health with Clefable).
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Struggle vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 39-47 (19.3 - 23.2%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Struggle vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable on a critical hit: 59-70 (29.2 - 34.6%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
While this may also work out okay, it is again a flawed way of dealing with Tyrantrum, because just as going for the kill with Moonblast, this will leave one of your team members severly weakened to the point it is quite likely it won't be able to recover its health (though, due to Skarmory's superior Speed, extensive pool of resistances and instant recovery, its chances are probably somewhat better than Clefable's).
Now, left with an unsatisifying result again, let's look at the last remaining option:
Switching into Chansey after stalling out 3 Head Smash PP with Protect-Wish-Protect.
This situation gives us the following calcs:
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 259-306 (72.5 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey on a critical hit: 390-459 (109.2 - 128.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
While Chansey has a 95% chance of surviving the switchin (considering crit and miss chances), your current Chansey set - lacking protect - won't be able to do anything and thus just be killed by the second Head Smash (you have only a 33,75% chance to survive, if at least one Head Smash misses and neither crits).
Letting Clefable get weakened and sacrificing Chansey is obviously a bad way to deal with Tyrantrum, but you still have one other option:
Switching Chansey in the fourth Head Smash as described above, but then directly switchin out again, bringing in Skarmory (sacrificing Clefable, again, doesn't make any sense). However, this variant is clearly inferior to switching Skarmory in the fourth Head Smash and absorbing the fifth with Protect, and thus shouldn't be considered as well.
So while you do have two options that give you good chances to beat Tyrantrum, both of them come at the high risk of losing at least one of your team members - that are all important because you can't 'revenge kill' anything and have to rely on defensive synergy to cover anything - to the opponent following next.
Looking at the movepools of Clefable (which hardly can sacrifice a moveslot anyway), Chansey and Skarmory, I unfortunately couldn't find a better option of dealing with this matter than your suggestion of Protect on Chansey as well. Assuming Tyrantrum comes in against full health Clefable, this opens up the following possibilities:
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 259-306 (72.5 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey on a critical hit: 390-459 (109.2 - 128.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Struggle vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 58-69 (16.2 - 19.3%) -- possible 6HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Struggle vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey on a critical hit: 87-103 (24.3 - 28.8%) -- 99.2% chance to 4HKO
This means, there is a 5% chance that it kills Chansey with a crit immediately, while 95% of the time you manage to tank the fourth Head Smash and block the last one with Protect. This leaves you at minimum 14,3% and maximum 27,5%, thus being able to survive the following Struggle most of the time, but there is a notable chance that it 2HKOes you after a high damage roll with Head Smash or with a Struggle crit.
Again, you would be able to switch Chansey out after removing the last Head Smash PP (which might be especially advisable after a high Head Smash roll, but it can 2HKO you with a crit + max damage Struggle even if Head Smash did minimum damage before, so you're never completely safe), but then again, this leaves you with a Chansey at low health, and thus with the same problems as the other solutions.
You could stay in and hope it doesn't kill, and then recover back Chansey's health, thus leaving you with all three pokemon at good health, but it's still very risky considering you rely on luck in terms of no crits and no high damage rolls against both Clefable and Chansey.
In addition, if you replace Counter with Protect on Chansey, you're in trouble if Tyrantrum comes in against Chansey itself. As you can't just go for the kill with counter, you again have to stall out its PP, and as Head Smash has a high chance to 2HKO Chansey even when it uses Softboiled, you probably won't be able to stall out all of it's PP with Chansey alone. With Protect-Softboiled-Protect, you're up against Tyrantrum with 2 PP remaining, and have to decide if you risk Chansey getting killed or switch out. However, while both Skarmory and Clefable usually are able to tank a Head Smash and can drain the last PP with Protect, they are unable to survive the Struggle following afterwards, thus forcing you to switch again, which results in a very similar situation to the other solutions, leaving an important team member at very low health, possible unable to recover. Thus, even though Protect helps to deal with Tyrantrum in one situation, it actually is worse than Counter in another situtation against the same Tyrantrum.
Anyway, thinking further about alternative options, I came up with the idea of giving Skamory enough physical defense to be able to always tank Head Smash followed up by Struggle (barring crits, because a Head Smash Crit does minimum 100% to 252/252+ Skarmory and thus it's impossible to survive Struggle afterwards; and even a Struggle crit alwalys has a chance to kill 252/252+ Skarm after it got hit by a non-crit Head Smash with a high damage roll).
However, to always survive Head Smash + Struggle even without crits, 252 HP and 212 Def EVs would be necessary, in addition to a +Def nature. Considering you also use Skarmory to handle some special attackers like OHKO users with Blizzard, this is an investment you just cannot afford.
While this idea ended up being pretty pointless, another and in some way similar thought came to my mind: Instead of letting survive Skarmory Head Smash + Struggle by modifying its EV spread, it should be able to survive the same attacks with the help of an item: Sitrus Berry.
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Struggle vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Skarmory: 34-40 (19.7 - 23.2%) -- possible 5HKO
As Struggle fails to deal 25% damage without a crit even with your specially defensive investment, you have a chance of over 95% to survive Head Smash followed up by Struggle (Tyrantrum's only chance to kill is a successful Head Smash hit with a middle to high damage roll followed up by a Struggle crit), and thus have a quite good chance to deal with Band Tyrantrum without having a team member severely weakened if it comes in against full health Clefable, as you can stall out 3 PP with Clefable without getting too low in health with Clefable (barring immediate KOs with high damage rolls/crits that can't be avoided except by putting Focus Sash on Clefable but i assume that's probably not worth it), then switch into Skarmory, always survive Head Smash with 25% upwards thanks to Sturdy + Sitrus, Protect against the last Head Smash and then Roost off damage as it kills itself with Struggle.
I cannot guarantee that I didn't overlook some other option, but I think Sitrus on Skarm is the best you can do against Tyrantrum without severely changing your team. In addition, while Skarm usually doesn't need it against weaker foes (it might even be able to preserve it by constantly staying at >50%), the Sitrus is definitely not useless in other situations besides this.
While the Lum Berry your Skarm seems to have at the moment is very useful as well, it doesn't help you against Tyrantrum at all, and considering you already got quite far with another item, Safety Goggles, it's fair to assume Skarm doesn't absolutely need the lum to work. Though you can probably judge best how important the lum really is and if it would pay off to try Sitrus or rather not.
I just got to 300 today, i'm going steady and slowly cause the levels of boredom is too danm high.
I want to lose so i can try a new team.
Good luck on your streak!
Thanks ~Mercury~ :) Thank you so much to have so much thought about that Tyrantrum. It's a real threat for my team.
It's a great idea to 252HP/212+Def Skarm and Sitrus because it allows me to survive anyway after tanking 3 PPs and let my other Pokes not so much damaged after Protect + Recover :) I'll seriously think about that.
And I can afford it because the Abomasnows are tanked by Chansey :)
The only bad point of that is for the Sheer Cold Vanilluxe who become a real threat for my team, because I used to tank it with Skarm, and without the SpDef, it's so hard to tank it (and the Lum Berry protected me against Freeze Hax). Because this Vanilluxe is Modest 252+ with Blizzard, so... That will be very hard to tank it even with Sitrus.
BUT. It only has 5 Blizzards, and with 252HP/212+Def, I still be able to tank the Sheer Cold Articuno (because Ice Beam doesn't make me so much damage, just praying to not be frozen), and all the OHKO sweepers (as Donphan, Wailord, Whiscash, Walrein and the others).
So I'll seriously think about that option which can be really helpful for me.
It allows me too to easily tank Drapion and Toxicroak thanks to the Sitrus.
It's an amazing idea and, unless someone see new threats for my team, I'll probably use this set thanks to you, because I never thought about that.
And the Sheer Cold Vanilluxe is VERY VERY VERY rare after the 50th battle. Only one Chef can have it I think so.
Thank you so much.
It's a great idea to 252HP/212+Def Skarm and Sitrus because it allows me to survive anyway after tanking 3 PPs and let my other Pokes not so much damaged after Protect + Recover :) I'll seriously think about that.
And I can afford it because the Abomasnows are tanked by Chansey :)
The only bad point of that is for the Sheer Cold Vanilluxe who become a real threat for my team, because I used to tank it with Skarm, and without the SpDef, it's so hard to tank it (and the Lum Berry protected me against Freeze Hax). Because this Vanilluxe is Modest 252+ with Blizzard, so... That will be very hard to tank it even with Sitrus.
BUT. It only has 5 Blizzards, and with 252HP/212+Def, I still be able to tank the Sheer Cold Articuno (because Ice Beam doesn't make me so much damage, just praying to not be frozen), and all the OHKO sweepers (as Donphan, Wailord, Whiscash, Walrein and the others).
So I'll seriously think about that option which can be really helpful for me.
It allows me too to easily tank Drapion and Toxicroak thanks to the Sitrus.
It's an amazing idea and, unless someone see new threats for my team, I'll probably use this set thanks to you, because I never thought about that.
And the Sheer Cold Vanilluxe is VERY VERY VERY rare after the 50th battle. Only one Chef can have it I think so.
Thank you so much.
Well I'm working toward getting all the trophies, and not too long ago got the Rotation one. As with Singles, Doubles and Triples before it, I've continued on my streak just to get it broken before I think too hard about Multi. That and I'll be doing that with my bud, with whom I don't hang out as often as I should.
Anyway, to my surprise, this Rotation team has been seeing some seriously resounding success. Presently my streak is at 117, and it's proceeding pretty slowly because I usually lie down at the end of the day and get about 2 battles off before I feel like passing out.
Ruby Weapon (Garchomp/M) @ Rocky Helmet
Jolly w/ Rough Skin
IVs: 31/31/31/27/31/31
EVs: 252 HP, 92 Defense, 164 Speed
-Swords Dance
-Dragon Claw
-Rock Slide
-Earthquake
Calamity (Kangaskhan/F) @ Kangaskhanite
Adamant w/ Scrappy
IVs: 31/31/31/08/31/31
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Attack, 252 Speed
-Return
-Earthquake
-Power-Up Punch
-Sucker Punch
Keyblade (Klefki/F) @ Light Clay
Bold w/ Prankster
IVs: 31/03/31/23/31/31
EVs: 252 HP, 152 Defense, 104 SpecDef
-Reflect
-Light Screen
-Thunder Wave
-Foul Play
Quetzalcoatl (Zapdos) @ Leftovers
Calm w/ Pressure
IVs: 31/01/27/23/31/31
EVs: 248 HP, 240 SpecDef, 20 Speed
-Thunderbolt
-Roost
-Toxic
-Substitute
So it's pretty similar to farranpoison's team, really. Lead with two powerful attackers and a Light Clay Klefki. In my case, I've strategically placed Garchomp as the first member, so that I can spin to Klefki and oftentimes take an attack that was directed at 'chomp; Dragon-, Ice- or Fairy-type moves being the intent. Set up my screens on the first turn and then spin to Kangaskhan, Mega and Power-Up Punch or to Garchomp and Swords Dance next. Ghost- or Fighting-type opponents discourage me from setting up with Kanga immediately, while the aforementioned Fairy-, Ice- or Dragon-types discourage me from setting up with Garchomp.
I subbed in Zapdos after a while in place of what was previously there... which was... I have no idea. But a Flying-type seemed like a good idea, because typically if Zapdos or Garchomp gets knocked out by some miracle (fuuucking Walrein, dude), it's usually enough turns down the line that it's almost time to set up my screens again, and Zapdos helps Klefki take a few fewer Earthquakes as it works. Something that resists Ground AND Fire would probably make more sense, but I also wanted something that could abuse Lefties and Subs and Toxic to inevitably break down anything barring Rest users. Also not wanting to have to train anything new, this seemed like the best choice from all the ordinary competitive Pokes I already had trained. And it's served me well, in about the 10 battles in which Zapdos has ever bothered to use a move. It really hasn't been very many more he's been brought out for. At least 9 times out of 10 I don't lose anyone before winning a battle.
I honestly can't make an argument for why I'm using a bulky 'chomp instead of a fully offensive one. I'm definitely not at all upset that I'm using Rock Slide instead of Stone Edge. Any time you can actually HIT with a Rock-type move is a good time. And I'm certainly enjoying being able to take the occasional Ice-type move behind a Light Screen, sometimes surviving with more than 50%. I'm also really pleased with the nice, respectable damage I get on an assailant with Rocky Helmet and Rough Skin even when I'm just Swords Dancing. Basically, I'm saying I don't necessarily think the bulky build is the optimal choice for the team, but I also don't see any reason for him to change. He still does proper decent dommage at +2 even with zero investment.
Things I struggle against... Swagger is annoying as always. Bulldoze and Icy Wind definitely suck. Burn and paralyze are problems; obviously Freeze and Sleep always are as well. None of my things are THAT fast, though I have Prankster T-Wave to mitigate that. Theoretically Raikou could be an issue, but my main attackers are immune to Shadow Ball or Thunderbolt and they both pack EQ, so it hasn't really been a thing. ...Things that boost their Defense and have good recovery, I guess? I'm really grasping here. My opposition has felt mostly impotent. I did have that close call against that Walrein that hit 3/4 Sheer Colds, but I was able to keep those at bay with Substitutes with Zapdos...
tl;dr Prankster Light Clay screens with two setup sweepers. Weakness synergy is actually pretty solid, the only repeat being Ice between Garchomp and Zapdos. Toxic stall in the back. Done.
Anyway, to my surprise, this Rotation team has been seeing some seriously resounding success. Presently my streak is at 117, and it's proceeding pretty slowly because I usually lie down at the end of the day and get about 2 battles off before I feel like passing out.
Ruby Weapon (Garchomp/M) @ Rocky Helmet
Jolly w/ Rough Skin
IVs: 31/31/31/27/31/31
EVs: 252 HP, 92 Defense, 164 Speed
-Swords Dance
-Dragon Claw
-Rock Slide
-Earthquake
Calamity (Kangaskhan/F) @ Kangaskhanite
Adamant w/ Scrappy
IVs: 31/31/31/08/31/31
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Attack, 252 Speed
-Return
-Earthquake
-Power-Up Punch
-Sucker Punch
Keyblade (Klefki/F) @ Light Clay
Bold w/ Prankster
IVs: 31/03/31/23/31/31
EVs: 252 HP, 152 Defense, 104 SpecDef
-Reflect
-Light Screen
-Thunder Wave
-Foul Play
Quetzalcoatl (Zapdos) @ Leftovers
Calm w/ Pressure
IVs: 31/01/27/23/31/31
EVs: 248 HP, 240 SpecDef, 20 Speed
-Thunderbolt
-Roost
-Toxic
-Substitute
So it's pretty similar to farranpoison's team, really. Lead with two powerful attackers and a Light Clay Klefki. In my case, I've strategically placed Garchomp as the first member, so that I can spin to Klefki and oftentimes take an attack that was directed at 'chomp; Dragon-, Ice- or Fairy-type moves being the intent. Set up my screens on the first turn and then spin to Kangaskhan, Mega and Power-Up Punch or to Garchomp and Swords Dance next. Ghost- or Fighting-type opponents discourage me from setting up with Kanga immediately, while the aforementioned Fairy-, Ice- or Dragon-types discourage me from setting up with Garchomp.
I subbed in Zapdos after a while in place of what was previously there... which was... I have no idea. But a Flying-type seemed like a good idea, because typically if Zapdos or Garchomp gets knocked out by some miracle (fuuucking Walrein, dude), it's usually enough turns down the line that it's almost time to set up my screens again, and Zapdos helps Klefki take a few fewer Earthquakes as it works. Something that resists Ground AND Fire would probably make more sense, but I also wanted something that could abuse Lefties and Subs and Toxic to inevitably break down anything barring Rest users. Also not wanting to have to train anything new, this seemed like the best choice from all the ordinary competitive Pokes I already had trained. And it's served me well, in about the 10 battles in which Zapdos has ever bothered to use a move. It really hasn't been very many more he's been brought out for. At least 9 times out of 10 I don't lose anyone before winning a battle.
I honestly can't make an argument for why I'm using a bulky 'chomp instead of a fully offensive one. I'm definitely not at all upset that I'm using Rock Slide instead of Stone Edge. Any time you can actually HIT with a Rock-type move is a good time. And I'm certainly enjoying being able to take the occasional Ice-type move behind a Light Screen, sometimes surviving with more than 50%. I'm also really pleased with the nice, respectable damage I get on an assailant with Rocky Helmet and Rough Skin even when I'm just Swords Dancing. Basically, I'm saying I don't necessarily think the bulky build is the optimal choice for the team, but I also don't see any reason for him to change. He still does proper decent dommage at +2 even with zero investment.
Things I struggle against... Swagger is annoying as always. Bulldoze and Icy Wind definitely suck. Burn and paralyze are problems; obviously Freeze and Sleep always are as well. None of my things are THAT fast, though I have Prankster T-Wave to mitigate that. Theoretically Raikou could be an issue, but my main attackers are immune to Shadow Ball or Thunderbolt and they both pack EQ, so it hasn't really been a thing. ...Things that boost their Defense and have good recovery, I guess? I'm really grasping here. My opposition has felt mostly impotent. I did have that close call against that Walrein that hit 3/4 Sheer Colds, but I was able to keep those at bay with Substitutes with Zapdos...
tl;dr Prankster Light Clay screens with two setup sweepers. Weakness synergy is actually pretty solid, the only repeat being Ice between Garchomp and Zapdos. Toxic stall in the back. Done.
Posting a streak of 433 wins.
Battle video: J4PG-WWWW-WWW7-5JUA
Nikita running Skarmory/Medicham/Walrein. Skarmory sets up SR and I fuck up, leaving cune poisoned and damaged for no reason. Medicham comes in and SR removes Multiscale from Dragonite who loses the speed tie, killing it. With SR, HJK is a 68.8% chance to KO and BP still can't OHKO with 3 instances of LO damage, so it lands the KO. Stalling out the Skarmory (poisoning Nite and taking its Lum Berry in the process as the price) and setting up on Scizor would've been a winning play, but I hadn't checked what Scizor-threatening mons Nikita could run (which seems to be none) and misplayed.
The team is Team Suizorus, except with Dragonite replacing Haxorus. Same EVs as Suizorus, standard Lum Dragonite.
My goal is 500+, so this is a bit of a disappointment, and I'm still mad about the loss. I'll make a bigger post explaining why I think Dragonite suits the team better than Haxorus (Hax loses to LO Tornadus and a couple of other big hitters/LO users that also threaten Scizor and Suicune with their enormous damage, most notably) once I finally hit 500+ (previous best was 39x, previous two ended in the low 100s/200s).
Battle video: J4PG-WWWW-WWW7-5JUA
Nikita running Skarmory/Medicham/Walrein. Skarmory sets up SR and I fuck up, leaving cune poisoned and damaged for no reason. Medicham comes in and SR removes Multiscale from Dragonite who loses the speed tie, killing it. With SR, HJK is a 68.8% chance to KO and BP still can't OHKO with 3 instances of LO damage, so it lands the KO. Stalling out the Skarmory (poisoning Nite and taking its Lum Berry in the process as the price) and setting up on Scizor would've been a winning play, but I hadn't checked what Scizor-threatening mons Nikita could run (which seems to be none) and misplayed.
The team is Team Suizorus, except with Dragonite replacing Haxorus. Same EVs as Suizorus, standard Lum Dragonite.
My goal is 500+, so this is a bit of a disappointment, and I'm still mad about the loss. I'll make a bigger post explaining why I think Dragonite suits the team better than Haxorus (Hax loses to LO Tornadus and a couple of other big hitters/LO users that also threaten Scizor and Suicune with their enormous damage, most notably) once I finally hit 500+ (previous best was 39x, previous two ended in the low 100s/200s).
Singles: Dragonite, Suicune, Mega Kangaskhan
Doubles: Dusclops, Aron, Snorlax, Mega Mawile
Triples: Greninja, Aron, Garchomp, Tyranitar, Gyarados, Aegislash
Rotation: Cloyster, Chansey, Dragonite, Aegislash
Multi: Mega Kangaskhan, Garchomp with AI Gyarados, Zoroark
I'm glad I got this out of the way.
Well, my and chdmwu's run in Super Multi has finally come to an end at 134. Honestly, we're both pretty surprised we made it this far with this team. We only have one Mega, and that's only because we both assumed we could only have one, and neither of us bothered to check that we could have two. Oh well, at least it'll be nice to see our unique Pokemon on the records list.
Video of our loss: YQEW-WWWW-WWW7-6Y5V
Me:
First Class (Talonflame) @ Sharp Beak
Spin to Win (Rotom-S) @ Charti Berry
chdmwu:
Phallic Face (Krookodile) @ Focus Sash
Get the Baby (Kangaskhan) @ Kangaskhanite
This was a good run. Our conversation at the beginning of every battle was pretty much, "Who's the bigger threat? OK, Brave Bird it." With Sharp Beak, Talonflame got a lot more OHKOs with Brave Bird than either of us were expecting. Talonflame pretty much destroyed everything that threatened Krookodile, like fast Fighting-types and things like Scizor. Taunt and Tailwind were rarely used, but both were nice when they were active. Krookodile with Intimidate was decent; Garchomp has a stronger EQ, sure, but we both rather dislike Garchomp, so we decided against using it.
Our backups were solid. Typically, Talonflame would kill herself to recoil, and so Rotom-S could come in and continue killing threats to Krookodile. Rotom-S is a weird choice, but STAB Air Slash flinches make it all worthwhile. DisQuake is pretty nice, too. It's a shame that Discharge hits Kangaskhan; chdmwu got pretty mad when my Discharge paralyzed Kangaskhan, and we got para-haxed and almost lost, but that never stopped me from using it. Wisp and Screen helped Kangaskhan win 1 vs 1. As for the abundance of Brick Break: "You gotta break their bricks" -chdmwu
We knew, ever since the beginning, that Rock-types would be problematic for us. Charti Berry on Rotom-S was amazing and let it survive every non-STAB Rock attack, and even some STAB ones, and then Krookodile and Rotom-S together would eliminate the Rock threat. We figured if there ever came a battle when we were faced with two Rock-types at the same time, that would be our undoing. Lo and behold, battle 135: Regirock + Aerodactyl. And if that wasn't enough, Aerodactyl had Unnerve to put the nail in our coffin. Game over. In retrospect, Protect may have been useful on Talonflame.
Video of our loss: YQEW-WWWW-WWW7-6Y5V
Me:
First Class (Talonflame) @ Sharp Beak
Gale Wings
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
31/31/31/X/31/31
She's in First Class because she gets priority when she flies :D4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
31/31/31/X/31/31
Brave Bird
Flare Blitz
Taunt
Tailwind
Flare Blitz
Taunt
Tailwind
Spin to Win (Rotom-S) @ Charti Berry
Levitate
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
31/X/31/31/31/31
Fun fact: Spin to Win used to be a Rotom-W. I didn't bother to change its nickname because the name still makes sense.4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
31/X/31/31/31/31
Discharge
Air Slash
Will-O-Wisp
Light Screen
Air Slash
Will-O-Wisp
Light Screen
chdmwu:
Phallic Face (Krookodile) @ Focus Sash
Intimidate
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
31/31/31/X/31/31
Krookodile intimidates opponents with its big...face.4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
31/31/31/X/31/31
Earthquake
Rock Slide
Crunch
Brick Break
Rock Slide
Crunch
Brick Break
Get the Baby (Kangaskhan) @ Kangaskhanite
Scrappy -> Parental Bond
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
31/31/31/X/31/31
"I had a neighbor that would beat his kids with a belt. When they hid the belt, he grabbed the baby by the ankles and beat the older kids with it. Now, whenever they misbehave, all he has to say is, 'Don't make me get the baby.' Works every time." -middle school history teacher252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
31/31/31/X/31/31
Return
Fake Out
Sucker Punch
Brick Break
Fake Out
Sucker Punch
Brick Break
This was a good run. Our conversation at the beginning of every battle was pretty much, "Who's the bigger threat? OK, Brave Bird it." With Sharp Beak, Talonflame got a lot more OHKOs with Brave Bird than either of us were expecting. Talonflame pretty much destroyed everything that threatened Krookodile, like fast Fighting-types and things like Scizor. Taunt and Tailwind were rarely used, but both were nice when they were active. Krookodile with Intimidate was decent; Garchomp has a stronger EQ, sure, but we both rather dislike Garchomp, so we decided against using it.
Our backups were solid. Typically, Talonflame would kill herself to recoil, and so Rotom-S could come in and continue killing threats to Krookodile. Rotom-S is a weird choice, but STAB Air Slash flinches make it all worthwhile. DisQuake is pretty nice, too. It's a shame that Discharge hits Kangaskhan; chdmwu got pretty mad when my Discharge paralyzed Kangaskhan, and we got para-haxed and almost lost, but that never stopped me from using it. Wisp and Screen helped Kangaskhan win 1 vs 1. As for the abundance of Brick Break: "You gotta break their bricks" -chdmwu
We knew, ever since the beginning, that Rock-types would be problematic for us. Charti Berry on Rotom-S was amazing and let it survive every non-STAB Rock attack, and even some STAB ones, and then Krookodile and Rotom-S together would eliminate the Rock threat. We figured if there ever came a battle when we were faced with two Rock-types at the same time, that would be our undoing. Lo and behold, battle 135: Regirock + Aerodactyl. And if that wasn't enough, Aerodactyl had Unnerve to put the nail in our coffin. Game over. In retrospect, Protect may have been useful on Talonflame.
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Congrats on an amazing streak, man! =) It's cool to see a different Dragonite set than the "standard" one! I also like how your Kangaskhan is perfectly adjusted for its role, which mine wasn't when I made a streak some time ago, lol. I'll hunt your streak ;)So I'm aware that ongoing streaks won't be added to the leaderboard yet but I want to post this anyway, seeing as I'm planning on taking a break from the Maison (unless someone gets a higher streak in the near future):
I may as well say now that I decided to replace Lucario with good old broken Kangaskhan, EV'd in such a way that it could switch into Gardevoir4's CH Moonblast, survive every time and score the KO whether it traced Multiscale or not. This isn't an “original” choice and sometime in the future I still would like to try and get a really high streak with less used 'mon, but whatever. I've just realised that NoCheese actually used the same Pokemon as me in his 286 streak, but he led with Khan instead of Nite and used different movesets on each Pokemon as well as a different item on Cune.
I have a good deal to say about each set, so I'll hide some of the text for those who want to read it.
Dragonite (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Stats: 167/204/115/x/120/132
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Roost
What more needs to be said about this guy? Boasting one of the best abilities in the game, four of the best moves in the game, considerable bulk, and a base Attack of 134, Nite proudly stands as one of the very best 'mon available for use in the Maison, and probably the very best lead tied with Lum Berry Haxorus. It is hard to overstate just how incredible the combination of Multiscale, DD and Roost is for ensuring a successful setup. While Haxorus notably packs a bit more immediate power, the ability to outspeed max Spe neutral nature base 80 'mon without resorting to Jolly, and Mold Breaker (meaning he doesn't have to get locked into Outrage against things like Gengar), Nite's combination manages to make up for this by having many more situations in which he can get 2 or more DD's off where Hax can only get one.
The best example of how awesome this is when you come up against a lead Rock Slide or Stone Edge user, of which there are many. As an example, let's say we're fighting a Roller Skater who leads with Gliscor. Since it's a Roller Skater, we at once know it's either Gliscor3 or Gliscor4, and consulting the list of sets, we find that Gliscor3 threatens an Adamant max Atk Expert Belt boosted Stone Edge, while Gliscor4 is considerably less dangerous and is clearly just fishing for a countersash KO. We're not going to give much thought to Gliscor4 because it's not really a threat at all (if need be, Cune can just come in and stall it all day while CMing 6 times. Actually Cune can just do this to Gliscor3 as well because Cune is godly but that's beside the point). So if we assume it's Gliscor3, one might think it's a bit of a problem for Nite. Multiscale allows Nite to take the first Stone Edge whether it crits or not, but this Gliscor happens to have 252 Def EV's as well which means it will survive a +1 Outrage. So what do we do? Surely we can't go for another DD? Well actually, because Multiscale is so great and Roost takes away our weakness to Stone Edge, we can simply Roost back to max HP and suddenly we're only taking at most 21% from Stone Edge. All we need to do now is Roost until it either whiffs a Stone Edge or runs out, at which point it will have to start using Aerial Ace which Nite easily tanks and bags another DD against.
Continued..You can even do this against dudes like Rhyperior4 as long as it doesn't score back to back crits (less than 0.4% chance of happening), because Rock Slide has 10PP so as long as you maxed your Roost PP to 16, you can stall that out too and then DD on its weaker moves. Another neat example is Golem4, who is not only possibly immune to OHKO thanks to Sturdy, but threatens Explosion and STAB Rock Slide. Simply DD and then Roost out its Rock Slides until it explodes (Maison pokes seem to love using Explosion way earlier than they need to) which you will always survive because Multiscale.
Finally, you can apply this tactic to get a successful setup against Trick Room users too. If you DD turn one and they TR, just Roost until TR ends so you can not only KO them afterwards but keep Multiscale and not have to worry about being “outsped” by the second poke due to TR.
I could list countless other examples, but you get the idea. Nite and particularly the Roost/MS combo is OP as hell. At times I really wished I could slap Leftovers on Nite to make it easier to keep MS (I get really irritated when stuff like Sandstorm/Hail or weak Fake Outs take away MS), but Lum Berry is a lot more essential for obvious reasons and Cune needs the lefties way more.
Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Nature: Bold
EVs: 204 HP / 252 Def / 52 Spe
Stats: 201/x/183/110/135/112
- Calm Mind
- Rest
- Scald
- Icy Wind
First off, I want to make clear that Jumpman deserves the credit for this set because I'm not sure I would have thought to use Scald + Icy Wind over Surf + Ice Beam. So major thanks for that. If you haven't read Jump's writeup for his team then the reason for Scald is to thaw yourself when Cune gets frozen on the switch (and you'll be switching Cune into many, many Blizzards and Ice Beams when you lead with Nite), and Icy Wind is for the guaranteed speed drop on foes, crucial in a lot of situations for bringing fast 'mon who can OHKO Nite or Khan down to low enough speed so Nite/Khan can OHKO first. Icy Wind is unfortunately only 95% accurate, which would usually mean it's a no-no for Maison teams which need to be as hax-proof as possible, but in this scenario it is definitely worth using over Ice Beam. Also, there's the fact that we're talking about Cune here, and while there are still a few rare situations where Cune missing is fatal, in general it's not so much of a big deal since Cune is such a defensive Pokemon and most of the time it just means you need to stall a few more turns or just try using it again.
I decided to tinker with the EV's ever so slightly because I don't choose to switch in Cune when I see lead Garchomp4. It always SD's on the switch and so we get one of those rare scenarios I mentioned above where whiffing one Icy Wind does matter and I would almost certainly lose if it happened. Instead, I simply Outrage turn one because MS allows Nite to survive an unboosted Dragon Claw should it decide to attack, and once its sash activates and Nite dies I just bring in Khan to finish it off. While not a great position to be in (two mystery pokes vs Khan and Cune), I don't think it's as risky as having to rely completely on Icy Wind connecting. So due to this difference in strategy I don't need Cune to have 113 Speed because there's never a situation where I switch Cune into +2 Garchomp4, and having one extra point of HP slightly ups the chance of surviving a CH Stone Edge + one normal Stone Edge from Aerodactyl4 (CB user), which I do switch Cune into whenever I see it led. The reason I keep Cune at 112 Speed is to outspeed Salamence4 after an Icy Wind, which is a little more immediately dangerous than Garchomp4 because of its Outrage.
I would probably go as far as to say Suicune is the best Pokemon for Battle Maison Singles, period. CroCune has been one of my favourite sets to use competitively ever since its inception in the RSE era because it's just so damn reliable and nigh impossible to 2HKO, let alone OHKO. Having Cune in the team is my ultimate insurance policy, saving me so many times when Nite falls to some Quick Claw/Brightpowder bullshit or consecutive parahax or flinch hax or whatever. Nite may grab most of the KO's but Cune is the glue that holds the team together and secures us so well against the sea of crap the Maison has in its locker.
Kangaskhan (F) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
Mega Ability: Parental Bond
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 12 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 12 SpD / 228 Spe
(Mega) Stats: 182/194/121/x/122/149
- Fake Out
- Return
- Earthquake
- Sucker Punch
Jesus Christ this thing is uber as shit. I don't think I need to write so much about how good Khan is because she kind of speaks for herself and everyone else uses her anyway lol, so I'll explain my reasoning for the EV's and the choice of moves.
It took me a while to stick on one moveset, and the superb Power-up Punch is notably absent. Return and Sucker Punch are non-negotiable for obvious reasons, but the fight for the other two slots between EQ, Fake Out and PuP is not so cut and dry. This is until I remembered the dreaded Choice Band Tyrantrum who is capable of wrecking almost anything if not outsped and OHKO'd on sight (which by the way, I should point out is actually Adamant so I don't need to worry about it leading and outspeeding Nite). If Khan has no move to OHKO this guy then I'm in serious trouble, and thankfully EQ just barely guarantees it every time:
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyrantrum: 159-189 (101.2 - 120.3%)
So obviously EQ is needed, meaning the choice is between Fake Out and PuP for the final slot. It's really tempting to look at PuP on Khan and want to use it just for the sheer brokenness of Parental Bond. The equivalent of an SD as well as dealing damage?! It seems too good to pass up, before you calm down and think about what exactly you need it for in the Maison. I realised that the majority of the time, Khan is so beastly that she doesn't actually -need- the boosts to OHKO things. Of course, sometimes, for example when Khan is slower than the foe and needs to Sucker Punch to get some damage in before getting hit, she will fall short of the KO where at +2 it would be comfortable. That kind of thing is what really tempted me to go with PuP instead, but honestly in most scenarios Khan's unboosted Return, if not EQ for Rock/Steel types, is strong enough to get the job done. And even if she can't, Khan is bulky enough that she's not getting OHKO'd by anything outside of STAB Fighting attacks and random CH Choice Band STABs.
On the other hand, while Fake Out looks less inviting at the offset, it turns so many 2HKO Sucker Punches and Returns into OHKO's and makes Khan almost invincible in a 1v1. Seriously, I've gone through the whole list and there are only a handful of Pokemon that can actually reliably beat Khan in a 1v1 (basically the few bulky high Atk Fighting types or those which are faster than Khan and can take a Fake Out + Sucker Punch). And seeing as I'm not leading with Khan, isn't it more important that instead of having potential to set up for a sweep, she can come in and “mop up” just about any bad situation when Nite/Cune have fallen? This was my thought process and I'm now completely convinced it's the right move to use. The icing on the cake is that Fake Out + Return crucially guarantees a KO on Gardevoir4 even if it leads and traces Nite's Multiscale, which Return alone is unable to do. [Edit: just to be clear, I'm not claiming that Fake Out > PuP in general, just that it's the better choice for this particular team. If you're intending Khan to be your primary sweeper then of course PuP is going to be better]
Stuff about EV's:I had a look at the speed tier list to see if it was vital to go max speed or if I could drop a few EV's and not leave myself open to something dangerous. Immediately you can see nothing sitting on 151 speed, and only a couple of set4 pokes on 152. Khan can only get a maximum of 152 without going Jolly, and I really don't care about hitting speed numbers just to tie because I'm always going to assume I lose the tie anyway. Coming down the list, one notices Heracross4 on 150 speed, but checking its moveset it literally doesn't even know CC because it's a silly Endure/Reversal/Salac set so I don't care about outspeeding it. At 149 we have Infernape2 and Skuntank3 who I don't care about because Infernape2 can only be used by the Starter Trainers who aren't dangerous anyway and Skuntank is bad. I decided to stick on 149, because on 148 there's Magmortar4 with Focus Blast, and seeing as Battle Girls / Black Belts as well as 4th Set B Trainers could use a team containing Magmortar4 and Aerodactyl4 I can't always assume Cune will be healthy when it shows up. So that leaves 28 EV's to play around with, and one key observation led me to distribute them as such:
252+ SpA Gardevoir Moonblast vs. 12 HP / 12 SpD Kangaskhan on a critical hit: 153-181 (84 - 99.4%)
I always wanted Khan to be able to switch into Gardevoir4 securely after it wreaked such havoc on my previous team (RIP Luke). Gardevoir4 will obviously always use Moonblast on Nite, so it would be great if I could rest easy knowing Khan could always survive on the switch in and score the KO before it can move again. After testing out the most efficient way to spread the EV's to achieve this, 12/12 was the answer with the extra 4 dumped in Def to slightly up the chance of Mega-Khan surviving things like Salamence4's CH Outrage. I could have actually spread the EV's so she -always- survives this, but between that and CH Moonblast I would rather she always survived the latter.
Time for some vids of the worst bullshit the Maison could come up with (and admittedly, some close calls due to inaccurate play on my part), and how I should've lost at 594 but inexplicably didn't.
NGJW-WWWW-WWW6-KD67 (Battle 388) “MoxieMence”Lead Togekiss sucks. Not only does the 4th set's Dazzling Gleam do a little too much for Cune to reliably switch in and set up on but it's the only Pokemon in the entire Maison that completely walls Nite.
Since this was a Roller Skater, it could've been either the 3rd or 4th set Togekiss and what I should have done was just sacrifice Nite right away and go from there (I kind of hate doing this but in a few awkward situations it's actually the best play). Instead I switched to Cune, observed it was the 4th set, then bounced to Khan to take a DG and KO with Fake Out + Return. Mence comes in without an Intimidate so I know it's Moxie which could mean trouble. I get a cool CH Sucker Punch to bring it into Cune's KO range before it kills Khan and gets an attack raise. To add to my luck it whiffs Dragon Rush and I get out of jail free. I really hate winning due to luck because I feel like I deserved to lose, which I could easily have done here had I not got the CH.
FCVW-WWWW-WWW6-KD6W (Battle 404) “Sheer Cold Articuno”This was the battle that made me stop switching to Cune when a Set 1/2 Veteran leads with Articuno and just Outrage turn one to get it off the screen as fast as possible. Fortunately, Virizion1 decided to Taunt Khan instead of use Sacred Sword. A CH Sacred Sword on that turn would have meant defeat for me here.
GE6W-WWWW-WWW6-KD5L (Battle 535) “Pinsir”I have actually run into lead Pinsir4 a few times during this streak and for some reason it would use either CC or X-Scissor against Nite instead of Guillotine, but hey I'm not complaining. No such luck this time and I really should have lost here. I had to Outrage at the end because it still had one Guillotine left after whiffing and with the scarf it's still faster than Nite after a DD. So not only did I have to rely on Guillotine missing, but I had to hope that being locked into Outrage wouldn't burn me against whatever the last poke was – if it had been Togekiss or Gardevoir, or indeed many others, I would've lost without doubt.
I made a slight misplay here which I only realised a while after. When Pinsir appeared, what I should have done is switch to Cune immediately to ensure Khan could switch back in and get off a Fake Out if Cune died. After that, I could've switched out and sacrificed Nite, in order to bring Khan back in, Fake Out again to put it in range of a Sucker Punch KO. Then it would have been Khan (albeit without the use of Fake Out) against a mystery foe which would've given me more chance of winning than what I played instead. I really just lucked out here and it irks me a little but there you go.
D2BG-WWWW-WWW6-KD5E (Battle 594) “Sheer Cold Articuno: Reloaded”I still have no idea what happened here with the AI. When I saw Tornadus come out second, I was shaking because I really thought I was done, but well, you can watch what happened. It's evidently the Life Orb set, but for some reason it had mercy on me and used Grass Knot against Khan when it knows Focus Blast (I've confirmed this by rerunning the fight in Vs. Recorder). Not much else to say than if it had used FB here I was done, especially because of the last 'mon.
Finally, because I haven't mentioned it yet and it might be surprising, don't underestimate Jynx4. It's actually kind of a dick, especially if you don't have Bullet Punch. At 161 Speed it outspeeds all three of my team, OHKO's Nite through Multiscale with Blizzard, threatens Cune and Khan with Lovely Kiss and also survives Khan's Fake Out. The only reliable way to deal with it is to switch between Khan and Cune and get rid of it with 2 Fake Outs, often leaving Cune asleep and Khan on less than 50% HP. Looking through my Vs Recorder I don't seem to have any videos where it actually caused me to nearly lose but it was always a pretty large concern. Really highlights how Sucker Punch is only the “next best thing” compared to true priority moves and I really wished I had Bullet Punch sometimes for these kind of things.
Hope someone out there enjoyed this :)
I just had my Super Singles streak snapped at 433. That dastardly 434th battle claimed another soul.
Battle Video: 6RHW - WWWW - WWW7 - 7B8U
CPU led with Mamoswine to which I should have honestly switched in Mega-Kangaskhan or even Suicune in retrospect. Granted, nothing wants to eat one of his STAB ice attacks (not to mention the freeze risk) and I don't think Suicune could have handled the STAB, Life Orb Earthquakes so I just decided to bit the bullet and let DNite eat an Ice Fang while doing some damage via Outrage. MKanga finishes off the Mamoswine and makes quick work of the Krookodile, but only after losing half his health to Earthquake. The Garchomp and my misplay against it are what did me in, however. I'd faced a few Garchomps along the way and they were all the Choice Scarf set. That set had punished me in the past. I assumed such again, and decided to Sucker Punch just to get some damage before dying. Had I gone with Return instead, I'd probably still be streaking. When I saw the Sucker Punch fail I knew it was over though. It Swords Danced and had me dead to rights from there. I Sucker Punched again to make things easier for Suicune, but knew it was a long shot. Suicune could take one blow and possibly two if I landed a burn, so I fished for the burn with Scald. No such luck though, and Garchomp 2HKO'd me with Earthquake.
Overall though, I can't complain too much since I know I didn't do as much consulting of the trainer lists and their potential sets as other people did. I checked the Pokemon list and took advantage of that when in doubt. I actually skimmed through one of the links and remember reading something along the lines of most Pokemon sets are the 4th one. Ironically though, I lost to Garchomp 4 without even checking because I had seen so many Scarf-Chomps that I just assumed it was another one. Even if it was though, the win was far from guaranteed given MKanga's low HP at the time and only having Suicune after that.
I also wish I could say I used a more original team, but I don't think anyone used my exact combination of sets so it's not the end of the world. Plus, I grew pretty attached to these particular Pokemon as the streak continued, especially Suicune for stopping the horrors of the Maison so consistently and methodically (Double-Teamers, Toxic-stallers, Will-O-Wispers, freezers, OHKO spammers).
Here is the team:
Dragonite(M) @ Lum Berry TheCashier
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch
Named TheCashier because he makes you pay. Seriously, if Dragonite gets a clean Dragon Dance off, the battles practically play themselves. Especially if it's a "free" DD used when the opponent Protects or something. I liked StarKO's idea of using Roost, however I don't think I would have trusted myself to use that move properly. As in, I'm not sure I would have been able to predict when I could get away with losing half HP or less such that I could bring back Multiscale with a Roost. Not only that, I was sure that the moves to which I would be Roosting afterwards (Rock Slide, Stone Edge, etc) would land a crit, flinch, or have their % variance go towards the high end and just bring me below 50%. So I opted for boring Fire Punch, which still helped a lot. I will say that if I ever re-try with this team, I'm going to try Aerial Ace in that slot. I say this because of a nasty Double Team Zapdos that ended an earlier streak and nearly ended this one at one point. Also, there's a prankster, DT Tornadus out there, too. Aerial Ace would keep my coverage against Grass types and have a STAB boost, but would be problematic against Skarmory, Regice, Levitate Bronzong and others so it's hard to say.
It was a bit of a process learning what I can DD on and when. The general rule of thumb for me was that if I out-speed something and can get a clean 2HKO, I'll attack. If I need to Dragon Dance to out-speed something I'll do just that, especially if it would move me from 2HKO to OHKO territory. Plenty of exceptions, though. Some were Aerodactyls, which were faster than me even after a DD. For them, I would just Outrage and usually end up killing those glass cannons without boosts, provided I didn't flinch to Rock Slide. Every Darminatan I encountered seemed to be the scarf-variant with Stone-Edge, which was also faster than my DNite at +1 Speed. For those, I learned to just EQ for the sake of getting some damage in before dying. Opposing Gyarados' took some getting used to at first, but I figured out the trick. They usually had Intimidate and would always DD two times. I did out-speed all of the ones I saw too, so I would DD once to get back to regular attack levels, and again to get to +1 ATK at which point I'm in OHKO territory with Outrage and don't even take any damage in the process! Against Alakazam, I would Outrage despite being slower. It was always Alakazam 4 and it would use Trick without fail to send me Choice Specs, so I figure I'll take my OHKO and get "double" locked in to Outrage rather than risk DDing and having to switch. Those are just some examples of the exceptions I’ve seen though, and I’m sure a lot of you know them by now.
Kangaskhan(F) @ Kangaskhanite ChipChip
Ability: Scrappy, Parental Bond
EVs: 12 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 12 SpD / 228 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Fake Out
- Sucker Punch
- Return
- Earthquake
The closer. Although she's probably the most interchangeable team member, Mega Kangaskhan was extraordinarily clutch. In this instance, I elected to use StarKO’s set after reading about the Gardevoir problem. Fake Out is free damage, even against Ghosts thanks to Scrappy. The damage added by STAB, Parental Bond Fake Out often makes up for the fact that don't get an item with Megas. It's like a free Life Orb with the extra damage it nets you. The combination of Sucker Punch and Fake Out actually let me take down the speedy Rock/Flying Pokes that threatened the rest of my team. It also lets me go first and not have to worry about flinch shenanigans. In fact, one Sucker Punch is often enough to send Archeops below half HP to activate Defeatist. Status effects were occasionally problematic, but having two other Pokemon who can absorb status made up for it. I will say that if battles came down to MKanga + Suicune vs. a single, hard-hitting physical attacker I would get a little uneasy. If the Mienshaos I encountered for example, had not all been the Impish one they could have been faster than Mkanga and smoked it while also threatening Suicine. Hawlucha can also pose problems if DNite goes down early.
Suicune @ Chesto Berry Boreas
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 232 HP / 252 Def / 20 Spe
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Scald
- Rest
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
My personal favorite Pokemon on the team and an absolute monster. I’d say that for about 45% or so of the battles I did not have to use Suicune. At first, I didn’t like when I had to use him just because if Suicune comes in, that means it’s gonna be a long battle. However, he is just so consistent at what he does and really takes out threats that nothing else can. Not only that, but he’ll come out of those encounters with 6 CM boosts most of the time and at that point can essentially gaurantee victory. The EV’s are to break speed ties with other base-80, neutral-speed natures while also making subs that are just right with regards to HP. I chose Scald over Surf to deal with freeze hax. Upon learning that Scald will thaw you out the turn you use it, I thought it was a no-brainer, especially considering the volume of ice attacks I switched him in to. The burns were just a bonus. I elected to go with a SubCM/Chesto set over the usual RestTalk/Leftovers “CroCune” set because after the first rest, I’ve usually garnered a CM or two and don’t mind not being able to do anything for a few turns after my next Rest (should I need one) because I’ll survive until I can move again.
The usual Suicune battle entailed switching in to something that DNite hates (Slowbro, Slowking, Dewgong, Froslass, Jynx, Avalugg, Greninja and many more) and absorbing the ice attack while Calm Minding the next turn to bring whatever attack came after in to the sub-25% damage range. From there, I can usually get free reign to CM behind subs and Rest when necessary. I will repeat this time-consuming process until I get to +6 and by then hardly anything can break subs and even things like Ludicolo want nothing to do with Scald. Jynx 4 was mentioned to be a problem in one of the earlier writeups I read, and I tackled it purely with Suicune on my run rather than switching in MKanga twice. After absorbing a Blizzard and a Lovely Kiss thanks to Chesto Berry, I will get one Calm Mind off which is enough to survive the onslaught of Psychics that come when you’re knocked asleep again (even with the occasional crit or Special Defense drop). Once Psychic has been stalled out, I’ll take my +6, set up a sub for the next Poke and Scald away. Also worth mentioning is this thing’s ability to stall out opposing Water types and even Water Absorbers (Suicune, Vaporeon, Gastrodon, Milotic, etc.). Like I said, time-consuming but consistent and usually leaving you with boosts for the next encounter. Finally, his utility in handling OHKO move users is unprecedented. Substalling Articuno and Walrein (and then cruising to +6 after) is so satisfying and is really the ultimate insurance policy. In one battle, I absorbed 4 OHKO moves from a Walrein thanks to Substitute. Without it, I would have been screwed.
My only gripes with Suicune are handling hard-hitting, physical moves (even with the EV’s/Bold nature). There was a Zebstrika that could have really ruined my day and if it’s non-resisted, there are still some nasty physical moves that can hurt Suicune enough so that he can’t stall them out (CB Tyrantrum, for one). Furthermore, because he takes such a high volume of hits there are often a lot of criticals sent his way. For this reason, I try not to be too greedy with my boosts and set up subs when possible.
So there it is! My Super Singles streak. I created this account when I got to 300ish just to make a post. I never thought I would have made it past 200 and once I finally got that freaking berry, I decided to keep it up and ended up tying the last guy!
Battle Video: 6RHW - WWWW - WWW7 - 7B8U
CPU led with Mamoswine to which I should have honestly switched in Mega-Kangaskhan or even Suicune in retrospect. Granted, nothing wants to eat one of his STAB ice attacks (not to mention the freeze risk) and I don't think Suicune could have handled the STAB, Life Orb Earthquakes so I just decided to bit the bullet and let DNite eat an Ice Fang while doing some damage via Outrage. MKanga finishes off the Mamoswine and makes quick work of the Krookodile, but only after losing half his health to Earthquake. The Garchomp and my misplay against it are what did me in, however. I'd faced a few Garchomps along the way and they were all the Choice Scarf set. That set had punished me in the past. I assumed such again, and decided to Sucker Punch just to get some damage before dying. Had I gone with Return instead, I'd probably still be streaking. When I saw the Sucker Punch fail I knew it was over though. It Swords Danced and had me dead to rights from there. I Sucker Punched again to make things easier for Suicune, but knew it was a long shot. Suicune could take one blow and possibly two if I landed a burn, so I fished for the burn with Scald. No such luck though, and Garchomp 2HKO'd me with Earthquake.
Overall though, I can't complain too much since I know I didn't do as much consulting of the trainer lists and their potential sets as other people did. I checked the Pokemon list and took advantage of that when in doubt. I actually skimmed through one of the links and remember reading something along the lines of most Pokemon sets are the 4th one. Ironically though, I lost to Garchomp 4 without even checking because I had seen so many Scarf-Chomps that I just assumed it was another one. Even if it was though, the win was far from guaranteed given MKanga's low HP at the time and only having Suicune after that.
I also wish I could say I used a more original team, but I don't think anyone used my exact combination of sets so it's not the end of the world. Plus, I grew pretty attached to these particular Pokemon as the streak continued, especially Suicune for stopping the horrors of the Maison so consistently and methodically (Double-Teamers, Toxic-stallers, Will-O-Wispers, freezers, OHKO spammers).
Here is the team:
Dragonite(M) @ Lum Berry TheCashier
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch
Named TheCashier because he makes you pay. Seriously, if Dragonite gets a clean Dragon Dance off, the battles practically play themselves. Especially if it's a "free" DD used when the opponent Protects or something. I liked StarKO's idea of using Roost, however I don't think I would have trusted myself to use that move properly. As in, I'm not sure I would have been able to predict when I could get away with losing half HP or less such that I could bring back Multiscale with a Roost. Not only that, I was sure that the moves to which I would be Roosting afterwards (Rock Slide, Stone Edge, etc) would land a crit, flinch, or have their % variance go towards the high end and just bring me below 50%. So I opted for boring Fire Punch, which still helped a lot. I will say that if I ever re-try with this team, I'm going to try Aerial Ace in that slot. I say this because of a nasty Double Team Zapdos that ended an earlier streak and nearly ended this one at one point. Also, there's a prankster, DT Tornadus out there, too. Aerial Ace would keep my coverage against Grass types and have a STAB boost, but would be problematic against Skarmory, Regice, Levitate Bronzong and others so it's hard to say.
It was a bit of a process learning what I can DD on and when. The general rule of thumb for me was that if I out-speed something and can get a clean 2HKO, I'll attack. If I need to Dragon Dance to out-speed something I'll do just that, especially if it would move me from 2HKO to OHKO territory. Plenty of exceptions, though. Some were Aerodactyls, which were faster than me even after a DD. For them, I would just Outrage and usually end up killing those glass cannons without boosts, provided I didn't flinch to Rock Slide. Every Darminatan I encountered seemed to be the scarf-variant with Stone-Edge, which was also faster than my DNite at +1 Speed. For those, I learned to just EQ for the sake of getting some damage in before dying. Opposing Gyarados' took some getting used to at first, but I figured out the trick. They usually had Intimidate and would always DD two times. I did out-speed all of the ones I saw too, so I would DD once to get back to regular attack levels, and again to get to +1 ATK at which point I'm in OHKO territory with Outrage and don't even take any damage in the process! Against Alakazam, I would Outrage despite being slower. It was always Alakazam 4 and it would use Trick without fail to send me Choice Specs, so I figure I'll take my OHKO and get "double" locked in to Outrage rather than risk DDing and having to switch. Those are just some examples of the exceptions I’ve seen though, and I’m sure a lot of you know them by now.
Kangaskhan(F) @ Kangaskhanite ChipChip
Ability: Scrappy, Parental Bond
EVs: 12 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 12 SpD / 228 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Fake Out
- Sucker Punch
- Return
- Earthquake
The closer. Although she's probably the most interchangeable team member, Mega Kangaskhan was extraordinarily clutch. In this instance, I elected to use StarKO’s set after reading about the Gardevoir problem. Fake Out is free damage, even against Ghosts thanks to Scrappy. The damage added by STAB, Parental Bond Fake Out often makes up for the fact that don't get an item with Megas. It's like a free Life Orb with the extra damage it nets you. The combination of Sucker Punch and Fake Out actually let me take down the speedy Rock/Flying Pokes that threatened the rest of my team. It also lets me go first and not have to worry about flinch shenanigans. In fact, one Sucker Punch is often enough to send Archeops below half HP to activate Defeatist. Status effects were occasionally problematic, but having two other Pokemon who can absorb status made up for it. I will say that if battles came down to MKanga + Suicune vs. a single, hard-hitting physical attacker I would get a little uneasy. If the Mienshaos I encountered for example, had not all been the Impish one they could have been faster than Mkanga and smoked it while also threatening Suicine. Hawlucha can also pose problems if DNite goes down early.
Suicune @ Chesto Berry Boreas
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 232 HP / 252 Def / 20 Spe
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Scald
- Rest
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
My personal favorite Pokemon on the team and an absolute monster. I’d say that for about 45% or so of the battles I did not have to use Suicune. At first, I didn’t like when I had to use him just because if Suicune comes in, that means it’s gonna be a long battle. However, he is just so consistent at what he does and really takes out threats that nothing else can. Not only that, but he’ll come out of those encounters with 6 CM boosts most of the time and at that point can essentially gaurantee victory. The EV’s are to break speed ties with other base-80, neutral-speed natures while also making subs that are just right with regards to HP. I chose Scald over Surf to deal with freeze hax. Upon learning that Scald will thaw you out the turn you use it, I thought it was a no-brainer, especially considering the volume of ice attacks I switched him in to. The burns were just a bonus. I elected to go with a SubCM/Chesto set over the usual RestTalk/Leftovers “CroCune” set because after the first rest, I’ve usually garnered a CM or two and don’t mind not being able to do anything for a few turns after my next Rest (should I need one) because I’ll survive until I can move again.
The usual Suicune battle entailed switching in to something that DNite hates (Slowbro, Slowking, Dewgong, Froslass, Jynx, Avalugg, Greninja and many more) and absorbing the ice attack while Calm Minding the next turn to bring whatever attack came after in to the sub-25% damage range. From there, I can usually get free reign to CM behind subs and Rest when necessary. I will repeat this time-consuming process until I get to +6 and by then hardly anything can break subs and even things like Ludicolo want nothing to do with Scald. Jynx 4 was mentioned to be a problem in one of the earlier writeups I read, and I tackled it purely with Suicune on my run rather than switching in MKanga twice. After absorbing a Blizzard and a Lovely Kiss thanks to Chesto Berry, I will get one Calm Mind off which is enough to survive the onslaught of Psychics that come when you’re knocked asleep again (even with the occasional crit or Special Defense drop). Once Psychic has been stalled out, I’ll take my +6, set up a sub for the next Poke and Scald away. Also worth mentioning is this thing’s ability to stall out opposing Water types and even Water Absorbers (Suicune, Vaporeon, Gastrodon, Milotic, etc.). Like I said, time-consuming but consistent and usually leaving you with boosts for the next encounter. Finally, his utility in handling OHKO move users is unprecedented. Substalling Articuno and Walrein (and then cruising to +6 after) is so satisfying and is really the ultimate insurance policy. In one battle, I absorbed 4 OHKO moves from a Walrein thanks to Substitute. Without it, I would have been screwed.
My only gripes with Suicune are handling hard-hitting, physical moves (even with the EV’s/Bold nature). There was a Zebstrika that could have really ruined my day and if it’s non-resisted, there are still some nasty physical moves that can hurt Suicune enough so that he can’t stall them out (CB Tyrantrum, for one). Furthermore, because he takes such a high volume of hits there are often a lot of criticals sent his way. For this reason, I try not to be too greedy with my boosts and set up subs when possible.
So there it is! My Super Singles streak. I created this account when I got to 300ish just to make a post. I never thought I would have made it past 200 and once I finally got that freaking berry, I decided to keep it up and ended up tying the last guy!
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I just lost at battle 66 of Super Multi with an AI partner (so my record is 65). The battle I lost was probably one of the most infuriating things I've ever experienced. Long story short: Minimize Toxic Chople Blissey + Wrap Protect Shuckle. Here's the video: XF3G-WWWW-WWW7-7FFF
MY PKMN
(bred/RNG'd by me)
Landorus-Therian @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Knock Off
- Superpower
Medicham (M) @ Medichamite
Ability: Pure Power
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Drain Punch
- Fire Punch
- Rock Slide
---
AI PKMN
Raikou @ Air Balloon
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Shadow Ball
- Protect
Latias @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic
- Trick
---
I really didn't have a "strategy" outside of "hit things hard." I made a few attempts with Mega Medicham + Scarf Togekiss, but Togekiss was really terrible once it got locked into a move due to its poor neutral coverage. The only issues I really had were Raikou Protecting against tons of Water-types, which let them get off free Blizzards and OHKO Landorus. It would have been so much easier if Raikou just OHKOed them with Thunderbolt.
I'm not even going to comment on the battle I lost... Warning: it was REALLY DUMB.
EDIT: Also just got the Singles monument with Haxorus/Kangaskhan/Landorus-T.
MY PKMN
(bred/RNG'd by me)
Landorus-Therian @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Knock Off
- Superpower
Medicham (M) @ Medichamite
Ability: Pure Power
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Drain Punch
- Fire Punch
- Rock Slide
---
AI PKMN
Raikou @ Air Balloon
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Shadow Ball
- Protect
Latias @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic
- Trick
---
I really didn't have a "strategy" outside of "hit things hard." I made a few attempts with Mega Medicham + Scarf Togekiss, but Togekiss was really terrible once it got locked into a move due to its poor neutral coverage. The only issues I really had were Raikou Protecting against tons of Water-types, which let them get off free Blizzards and OHKO Landorus. It would have been so much easier if Raikou just OHKOed them with Thunderbolt.
I'm not even going to comment on the battle I lost... Warning: it was REALLY DUMB.
EDIT: Also just got the Singles monument with Haxorus/Kangaskhan/Landorus-T.
You mentioned problems with hard-hitting physical attackers, would mega Scizor handle them well enough? (I ask this half as a legit question and half as a MegaZor fanboy, lol) Also, how did Fire Punch work out as opposed to ESpeed or DNite's other options?I just had my Super Singles streak snapped at 433. That dastardly 434th battle claimed another soul.
Battle Video: 6RHW - WWWW - WWW7 - 7B8U
CPU led with Mamoswine to which I should have honestly switched in Mega-Kangaskhan or even Suicune in retrospect. Granted, nothing wants to eat one of his STAB ice attacks (not to mention the freeze risk) and I don't think Suicune could have handled the STAB, Life Orb Earthquakes so I just decided to bit the bullet and let DNite eat an Ice Fang while doing some damage via Outrage. MKanga finishes off the Mamoswine and makes quick work of the Krookodile, but only after losing half his health to Earthquake. The Garchomp and my misplay against it are what did me in, however. I'd faced a few Garchomps along the way and they were all the Choice Scarf set. That set had punished me in the past. I assumed such again, and decided to Sucker Punch just to get some damage before dying. Had I gone with Return instead, I'd probably still be streaking. When I saw the Sucker Punch fail I knew it was over though. It Swords Danced and had me dead to rights from there. I Sucker Punched again to make things easier for Suicune, but knew it was a long shot. Suicune could take one blow and possibly two if I landed a burn, so I fished for the burn with Scald. No such luck though, and Garchomp 2HKO'd me with Earthquake.
Overall though, I can't complain too much since I know I didn't do as much consulting of the trainer lists and their potential sets as other people did. I checked the Pokemon list and took advantage of that when in doubt. I actually skimmed through one of the links and remember reading something along the lines of most Pokemon sets are the 4th one. Ironically though, I lost to Garchomp 4 without even checking because I had seen so many Scarf-Chomps that I just assumed it was another one. Even if it was though, the win was far from guaranteed given MKanga's low HP at the time and only having Suicune after that.
I also wish I could say I used a more original team, but I don't think anyone used my exact combination of sets so it's not the end of the world. Plus, I grew pretty attached to these particular Pokemon as the streak continued, especially Suicune for stopping the horrors of the Maison so consistently and methodically (Double-Teamers, Toxic-stallers, Will-O-Wispers, freezers, OHKO spammers).
Here is the team:
Dragonite(M) @ Lum Berry TheCashier
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch
Named TheCashier because he makes you pay. Seriously, if Dragonite gets a clean Dragon Dance off, the battles practically play themselves. Especially if it's a "free" DD used when the opponent Protects or something. I liked StarKO's idea of using Roost, however I don't think I would have trusted myself to use that move properly. As in, I'm not sure I would have been able to predict when I could get away with losing half HP or less such that I could bring back Multiscale with a Roost. Not only that, I was sure that the moves to which I would be Roosting afterwards (Rock Slide, Stone Edge, etc) would land a crit, flinch, or have their % variance go towards the high end and just bring me below 50%. So I opted for boring Fire Punch, which still helped a lot. I will say that if I ever re-try with this team, I'm going to try Aerial Ace in that slot. I say this because of a nasty Double Team Zapdos that ended an earlier streak and nearly ended this one at one point. Also, there's a prankster, DT Tornadus out there, too. Aerial Ace would keep my coverage against Grass types and have a STAB boost, but would be problematic against Skarmory, Regice, Levitate Bronzong and others so it's hard to say.
It was a bit of a process learning what I can DD on and when. The general rule of thumb for me was that if I out-speed something and can get a clean 2HKO, I'll attack. If I need to Dragon Dance to out-speed something I'll do just that, especially if it would move me from 2HKO to OHKO territory. Plenty of exceptions, though. Some were Aerodactyls, which were faster than me even after a DD. For them, I would just Outrage and usually end up killing those glass cannons without boosts, provided I didn't flinch to Rock Slide. Every Darminatan I encountered seemed to be the scarf-variant with Stone-Edge, which was also faster than my DNite at +1 Speed. For those, I learned to just EQ for the sake of getting some damage in before dying. Opposing Gyarados' took some getting used to at first, but I figured out the trick. They usually had Intimidate and would always DD two times. I did out-speed all of the ones I saw too, so I would DD once to get back to regular attack levels, and again to get to +1 ATK at which point I'm in OHKO territory with Outrage and don't even take any damage in the process! Against Alakazam, I would Outrage despite being slower. It was always Alakazam 4 and it would use Trick without fail to send me Choice Specs, so I figure I'll take my OHKO and get "double" locked in to Outrage rather than risk DDing and having to switch. Those are just some examples of the exceptions I’ve seen though, and I’m sure a lot of you know them by now.
Kangaskhan(F) @ Kangaskhanite ChipChip
Ability: Scrappy, Parental Bond
EVs: 12 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 12 SpD / 228 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Fake Out
- Sucker Punch
- Return
- Earthquake
The closer. Although she's probably the most interchangeable team member, Mega Kangaskhan was extraordinarily clutch. In this instance, I elected to use StarKO’s set after reading about the Gardevoir problem. Fake Out is free damage, even against Ghosts thanks to Scrappy. The damage added by STAB, Parental Bond Fake Out often makes up for the fact that don't get an item with Megas. It's like a free Life Orb with the extra damage it nets you. The combination of Sucker Punch and Fake Out actually let me take down the speedy Rock/Flying Pokes that threatened the rest of my team. It also lets me go first and not have to worry about flinch shenanigans. In fact, one Sucker Punch is often enough to send Archeops below half HP to activate Defeatist. Status effects were occasionally problematic, but having two other Pokemon who can absorb status made up for it. I will say that if battles came down to MKanga + Suicune vs. a single, hard-hitting physical attacker I would get a little uneasy. If the Mienshaos I encountered for example, had not all been the Impish one they could have been faster than Mkanga and smoked it while also threatening Suicine. Hawlucha can also pose problems if DNite goes down early.
Suicune @ Chesto Berry Boreas
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 232 HP / 252 Def / 20 Spe
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Scald
- Rest
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
My personal favorite Pokemon on the team and an absolute monster. I’d say that for about 45% or so of the battles I did not have to use Suicune. At first, I didn’t like when I had to use him just because if Suicune comes in, that means it’s gonna be a long battle. However, he is just so consistent at what he does and really takes out threats that nothing else can. Not only that, but he’ll come out of those encounters with 6 CM boosts most of the time and at that point can essentially gaurantee victory. The EV’s are to break speed ties with other base-80, neutral-speed natures while also making subs that are just right with regards to HP. I chose Scald over Surf to deal with freeze hax. Upon learning that Scald will thaw you out the turn you use it, I thought it was a no-brainer, especially considering the volume of ice attacks I switched him in to. The burns were just a bonus. I elected to go with a SubCM/Chesto set over the usual RestTalk/Leftovers “CroCune” set because after the first rest, I’ve usually garnered a CM or two and don’t mind not being able to do anything for a few turns after my next Rest (should I need one) because I’ll survive until I can move again.
The usual Suicune battle entailed switching in to something that DNite hates (Slowbro, Slowking, Dewgong, Froslass, Jynx, Avalugg, Greninja and many more) and absorbing the ice attack while Calm Minding the next turn to bring whatever attack came after in to the sub-25% damage range. From there, I can usually get free reign to CM behind subs and Rest when necessary. I will repeat this time-consuming process until I get to +6 and by then hardly anything can break subs and even things like Ludicolo want nothing to do with Scald. Jynx 4 was mentioned to be a problem in one of the earlier writeups I read, and I tackled it purely with Suicune on my run rather than switching in MKanga twice. After absorbing a Blizzard and a Lovely Kiss thanks to Chesto Berry, I will get one Calm Mind off which is enough to survive the onslaught of Psychics that come when you’re knocked asleep again (even with the occasional crit or Special Defense drop). Once Psychic has been stalled out, I’ll take my +6, set up a sub for the next Poke and Scald away. Also worth mentioning is this thing’s ability to stall out opposing Water types and even Water Absorbers (Suicune, Vaporeon, Gastrodon, Milotic, etc.). Like I said, time-consuming but consistent and usually leaving you with boosts for the next encounter. Finally, his utility in handling OHKO move users is unprecedented. Substalling Articuno and Walrein (and then cruising to +6 after) is so satisfying and is really the ultimate insurance policy. In one battle, I absorbed 4 OHKO moves from a Walrein thanks to Substitute. Without it, I would have been screwed.
My only gripes with Suicune are handling hard-hitting, physical moves (even with the EV’s/Bold nature). There was a Zebstrika that could have really ruined my day and if it’s non-resisted, there are still some nasty physical moves that can hurt Suicune enough so that he can’t stall them out (CB Tyrantrum, for one). Furthermore, because he takes such a high volume of hits there are often a lot of criticals sent his way. For this reason, I try not to be too greedy with my boosts and set up subs when possible.
So there it is! My Super Singles streak. I created this account when I got to 300ish just to make a post. I never thought I would have made it past 200 and once I finally got that freaking berry, I decided to keep it up and ended up tying the last guy!
ill get the code for the battle video soon but i was using a mega kangaskhan (as everyone would), and a shuckle used gastro acid. F*CKING GASTRO ACID. the end. battle video soon when i can :)
Got the 500! And with a new, never seen before (at least on the leaderboards) team instead of Team Suizorus. And without Mega Evolution to boot. No streak to post since it's not over yet, but the team is as follows:
Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Roost
Aegislash @ Leftovers ** Bucklerapier
Ability: Stance Change
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 196 HP / 252 Atk / 60 SDef
- King's Guard
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Sneak
- Sacred Sword
Greninja @ Life Orb ** Glenn
Ability: Protean
Nature: Timid
EVs: 52 HP / 252 SAtk / 204 Spe
- Surf
- Grass Knot
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse
About the EV spreads: Aegislash's EVs are actually unoptimal for raw bulk because of the lopsided 60/150/150 defenses, but the reason for maximum HP-for-HP special bulk with optimal Leftovers recovery is Aegislash's tendency to get frozen and eat weak special attacks for 10 turns straight sustained only by Leftovers recovery. Against strong attacks it won't do much - but if the freeze is long and the hits are strong, Aegislash probably wasn't going to make it even with 167 HP and slightly greater bulk. The difference is pretty small and there were no instances where the EVs made a difference during this streak so far, but it's there.
Greninja is EV'd to hit 184 Speed, which outspeeds positive-natured base 115's like Raikou and Starmie. You give up outspeeding Alakazam and Hawlucha out of notable Pokémon, but Alakazam is better reserved as set-up fodder for Aegislash after Greninja gets tricked the Specs and Hawlucha is also food for Aegislash. The extra HP EVs push its hit points above 150, giving an extra point of LO damage, which decreases the already minimal HP increase, but it's been proven worth it during the streak - Greninja barely surviving a hit at 1-5HP has happened a lot of times, though usually not in a battle-deciding way.
I originally tried out Greninja on a whim after losing with Team Suizorus again, adding Dragonite and Aegislash to complete the Dragon/Steel/Water core - Dragonite was an easy choice, and Aegislash looked like it could work well with Greninja coming in on Ghost/Dark/Fire attacks aimed at Aegislash, with the extra bonus of Greninja not caring about burn, unlike its more commonly seen partner in crime, Mega Kangaskhan. This streak is my first with this team - my expectations for Greninja were low and I'd intended to play around a bit and go back to grinding with Suizorus after losing, but as it turns out I stumbled across a real beauty with this one.
The team plays pretty straightforwardly - Nite handles what it can, Aegislash can switch in on almost anything that Nite can't stay in on, and from there you can switch in Greninja if necessary. Dragonite and Greninja have a bit of anti-synergy with a shared Fairy weakness, but bringing in Aegislash as a buffer takes care of that quite nicely. The Aegislash-Flying combo allows stalling out QuakeEdge, OutrageEdge, and friends for easy, safe setup. I can't stress enough how simple it is to play, even with only a hundred battles with the team on record - misplays are the most common cause of lost streaks with otherwise solid teams, and they're hard to come by with this line-up. With Suizorus there were a lot of convoluted cases - not so with this one.
That's it for now, I'll try to post some threats and other things once the streak's done - though I'm not quite sure what they are just yet, with only 500 battles with the team and no killer Pokémon like Magnezone/Togekiss/Volcarona/Zapdos for Suizorus appearing to bust the streak just yet.
Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Roost
Aegislash @ Leftovers ** Bucklerapier
Ability: Stance Change
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 196 HP / 252 Atk / 60 SDef
- King's Guard
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Sneak
- Sacred Sword
Greninja @ Life Orb ** Glenn
Ability: Protean
Nature: Timid
EVs: 52 HP / 252 SAtk / 204 Spe
- Surf
- Grass Knot
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse
About the EV spreads: Aegislash's EVs are actually unoptimal for raw bulk because of the lopsided 60/150/150 defenses, but the reason for maximum HP-for-HP special bulk with optimal Leftovers recovery is Aegislash's tendency to get frozen and eat weak special attacks for 10 turns straight sustained only by Leftovers recovery. Against strong attacks it won't do much - but if the freeze is long and the hits are strong, Aegislash probably wasn't going to make it even with 167 HP and slightly greater bulk. The difference is pretty small and there were no instances where the EVs made a difference during this streak so far, but it's there.
Greninja is EV'd to hit 184 Speed, which outspeeds positive-natured base 115's like Raikou and Starmie. You give up outspeeding Alakazam and Hawlucha out of notable Pokémon, but Alakazam is better reserved as set-up fodder for Aegislash after Greninja gets tricked the Specs and Hawlucha is also food for Aegislash. The extra HP EVs push its hit points above 150, giving an extra point of LO damage, which decreases the already minimal HP increase, but it's been proven worth it during the streak - Greninja barely surviving a hit at 1-5HP has happened a lot of times, though usually not in a battle-deciding way.
I originally tried out Greninja on a whim after losing with Team Suizor
The team plays pretty straightforwardly - Nite handles what it can, Aegislash can switch in on almost anything that Nite can't stay in on, and from there you can switch in Greninja if necessary. Dragonite and Greninja have a bit of anti-synergy with a shared Fairy weakness, but bringing in Aegislash as a buffer takes care of that quite nicely. The Aegislash-Flying combo allows stalling out QuakeEdge, OutrageEdge, and friends for easy, safe setup. I can't stress enough how simple it is to play, even with only a hundred battles with the team on record - misplays are the most common cause of lost streaks with otherwise solid teams, and they're hard to come by with this line-up. With Suizor
That's it for now, I'll try to post some threats and other things once the streak's done - though I'm not quite sure what they are just yet, with only 500 battles with the team and no killer Pokémon like Magnezone/Togekiss/Volcarona/Zapdos for Suizor
So. I got a streak of 686 with my Super Doubles team, following up from my adventure in Super Singles and Super Multis. o_o I lost from a nasty Freeze on my Conkeldurr, knocking it out early. The rest of my team then fell apart from brute force. Honestly, though, I deserved the hax, given how my team has holes that I had previously managed to play around, and continuing the streak was rather boring. XD
For example, this match (#536) has all of the flinch hax, but I still managed to wring out a victory: ZLGG-WWWW-WWW7-8JHZ
The lost battle (#687): 5HWW-WWWW-WWW7-8JYX
The opponent starts out with Politoed and Abomasnow. I briefly muse whether the team was dual weather, but nope, only Abomasnow has its weather ability. That, unfortunately, means Hail will break Sturdy on the first turn. I switch my Aron out for Conkeldurr to avoid that, and Conkeldurr brings Abomasnow down to with red health, but it uses Blizzard on both members of my team, freezing Conkeldurr. :/ If I use Heal Pulse, both Politoed's and Abomasnow's attacks are sure to take Conkeldurr out, so I have Aromatisse go for Dazzling Gleam to at least take Abomasnow down. Conkeldurr doesn't defrost, so it faints. D: I then send out Kangaskhan for Fake Out and general damage. My misplay the turn after that is using Double-Edge on Politoed instead of Nidoking; if I had Kangaskhan take Nidoking out first, it wouldn't have been able to use Poison Jab and take out Aromatisse, and maybe I could've had Aromatisse use Heal Pulse and have Kangaskhan healthy enough to survive Politoed's attack the next turn. Then Aron was left against Gastrodon and Nidoking, and since there's no partner to deal damage, it's impossible for me to win. At least I don't feel too bad about the loss, since I can blame it on hax. :P
Onto the team in detail:
This team is my variation of Endeavor Aron teams, like some of those of previous posters. I noticed that the general team construction is reminiscent of SqueakySquirtle's team, as it has team roles of Trick Room setter/Endeavor Aron/slow Fighting-type/Mega. The latter two roles are similar by coincidence, since I really just chose two Pokemon that worked well in Trick Room but did not rely on it.
I'm wondering if Endeavor Aron teams should be moved to a separate section, like Entrainment teams, since it's a one-two combo that can decimate half of the Maison without fault? What do you think, Eppie? (By the way, you spelled Hippowdon as Hippodown in the first post.)
Tracce (Aromatisse) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Aroma Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 6 Def
IVs: 0 Spe
Sassy Nature
- Trick Room
- Dazzling Gleam
- Odor Sleuth
- Heal Pulse
Aromatisse was my first choice of a Trick Room setter over Pokemon such as Cresselia for multiple reasons. The first I saw was its immunity to Taunt from Aroma Veil, freeing up the debate of whether to use a Mental Herb or Lum Berry to prevent Trick Room from not being set up. It's comforting to know that neither Taunt nor Freezing will stop it from using Trick Room. The second feature Aromatisse has over Cresselia is its reliable spread move. Dazzling Gleam has STAB and deals 80 base damage with 100% accuracy, and no Pokemon is immune to it. Cresselia only has Swift (immune by Ghosts) and Icy Wind (inaccurate, non-STAB, and helps other Pokemon become 'faster' in Trick Room).
The only way to prevent it from setting up Trick Room is to get a lucky flinch or to OHKO it, which, while not impossible, is unlikely due to the investment in its defensive stats and the Maison's AI. If I know one of the opponent's Pokemon will target and potentially KO Aromatisse, I will still try to get it to set up Trick Room, but I'll have Aron use Endeavor to dish out damage with Sturdy keeping it alive. Once Trick Room is up, Aromatisse goes on the offensive, picking off Endeavor-weakened opponents with Dazzling Gleam and generally whittling frailer Fighting- and Dragon-type Pokemon like Breloom or Noivern to save Aron from a hit.
I knew before I ventured into the Maison that Ghost-type Pokemon were troublesome for Aron, being immune to Endeavor, so if I get into a situation where both opposing Pokemon are of the Ghost-type, Aromatisse can make one of them hittable with Odor Sleuth while Aron uses Protect against the opponent's miscellany of attacks. Another fantastic effect of Odor Sleuth is that is shuts down evasion. I've used Odor Sleuth against that Cresselia with Double Team and that Blissey with Minimize (a potential chimera of a nightmare, I must comment) to make them more manageable. I didn't realize it until I completed EV-training my Aromatisse how useful a move Odor Sleuth is, but it really streamlines battles for me. :)
In the case Aron faints early due to status, priority, or general hax, Aromatisse can provide utility beyond poking the opponent with uninvested Dazzling Gleams by healing 50% of its partner's HP with Heal Pulse. ouob
If you're looking to emulate the team, I think Dusclops is an alternate option for a Trick Room setter that has several advantages and disadvantages. It has Foresight, which acts the same as Odor Sleuth, for dual Ghost leads. It can use Frisk to determine which Pokemon have Sitrus Berries and so are not to be attacked with Endeavor, at the expense of being susceptible to Taunt. It is much tankier than Aromatisse and so will not get KOed by the threats Aromatisse faces, but it sacrifices its Lum Berry for that bulk, meaning Paralysis, Confusion, or, if you're unlucky, Freeze will stop it from setting Trick Room up. Dusclops does get a multitude of spread moves (Icy Wind, Blizzard, Swift, Rock Slide, Bulldoze, and Earthquake) to chip off weakened opponents, but all of them have their detriments in contrast to the perfectly accurate, always-damaging Dazzling Gleam. Dusclops doesn't have support options, unlike Aromatisse, so its weight isn't great outside of Trick Room.
Fenori (Aron) @ Berry Juice
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 1
Shiny: Yes
EVs: None
Bashful Nature
- Protect
- Endeavor
- Toxic
- Sleep Talk
I had bred an Aron for Endeavor in Gen. V, and the second egg hatched shiny, so Fenori is quite precious to me. :)
Aron's role in the Maison's pretty clear-cut; use Endeavor the opponents and give its partner free turns. Protect gives Aromatisse a clear set-up for Trick Room and keeps it alive as a designated target while one of my late-game Pokemon can attack without fear of harm. Endeavor brings opposing Pokemon down to 12 HP (or one, if Sturdy activated twice), which, under most circumstances, allows Aromatisse to finish them off with Dazzling Gleam. Because Aron can take two hits if it's at full HP, it is free to use Endeavor even if Aromatisse faints early; Endeavor in unison with a flinch from Kangaskhan's Fake Out works nicely with taking opponents down.
Toxic is one of those moves that is mostly filler but is quite handy under rare circumstances. In particular, I recall one incident where I needed to stall out the opposing Ghost-type Pokemon between Toxic and Protect with Kangaskhan's help. I kinda wish I kept the battle video so I remember exactly what I did, but I do remember that the battle shows how Toxic is invaluable, as niche it is.
I honestly never used Sleep Talk. :U Pokemon in the Maison like to use Thunder Wave or Will-O-Wisp much more than a sleep-inducing move. I originally had Shadow Claw in this slot to tap away at Toxic-immune Pokemon and break a Gengar's Focus Sash or something, but the utility of a fourth move is small enough to be unneeded, essentially.
Ma'am (Kangaskhan) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Double-Edge
- Sucker Punch
- Earthquake
This is the same Kangaskhan that I used on my Super Singles team, as you can see here. Mega Kangaskhan provides as much gravitas in Singles as it does in Doubles--possibly more.
Fake Out provides much more utility than a free Mega Evolution turn; having an opponent Pokemon flinch means Aron needs to take one fewer hit to use Endeavor outside of Trick Room. Minimizing prediction and risk is quite useful with that in mind. Double-Edge again is my choice of STAB, sacrificing a small bit of recoil for more power. Sucker Punch is great priority, and it, alongside Fake Out, can be used without fear of speed tiers in and out of Trick Room. Earthquake is there for coverage, again, and spread damage. It's a small bother that Earthquake deals damage to partner Pokemon, but I try to have Aron use Protect or have Conkeldurr out to soak up the damage (while healing it off with Drain Punch).
Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 SpD
Brave Nature
- Mach Punch
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch
Note: This Conkeldurr does not have perfect stats (like 0 Speed IVs for Trick Room), since it was bred in Gen. V without the help of RNGing. Also, I haven't updated its EVs to take advantage of Assault Vest. >>; That might've been useful for the match I lost.
Conkeldurr is one of those Pokemon that works well outside of Trick Room but works even better in it. :D I chose Conkeldurr because, aside from having one prepared from Gen. V, it doesn't mind status conditions, which would otherwise be detrimental in the haxy Maison. In addition, Conkeldurr gets Knock Off for removing an otherwise bothersome Chesto Berry or Bright Powder and Ice Punch for Super-Effective damage against Flying- and other types that resist its STAB. It's fun to outspeed Pokemon such as Landorus with Trick Room up and cleanly KO it. In the Battle Maison, as Azumarill is non-existent, Conkeldurr's moves get perfect coverage--it gets great super-effective coverage, too.
I did realize after reading through SqueakySquirtle's team that Machamp is similar to Conkeldurr in stats and utility. Instead of Mach Punch and Drain Punch, Machamp can use Bullet Punch and Dynamic Punch. However, my primary concern was that if Machamp gets burnt, its damage decreases instead of increasing with Guts. In addition, its speed tier is less useful for Trick Room compared to Conkeldurr's, forgoes Drain Punch's recovery, and does not get STAB on priority. I figure those disadvantages outweighed perfect accuracy (as tempting as that might be) and the possible confusion hax gained through Dynamic Punch, so I kept Conkeldurr.
--
Endeavor Trick Room works well against the in-game AI for several reasons.
Highest priority
That being said, the strategy has many flaws. Trick Room is needed to almost completely secure a victory. If it's not up, the match is a bit more fair.
I was sure I was going to lose to the trainer that opened with Talonflame and Tyrantrum, but nope, it was a misplay and Freeze hax that got me, not bad matchups.
--
To coincide with this streak, I'm giving away Battle Maison items and foreign 4-5 IV Pokemon! See here for details!
For example, this match (#536) has all of the flinch hax, but I still managed to wring out a victory: ZLGG-WWWW-WWW7-8JHZ
The lost battle (#687): 5HWW-WWWW-WWW7-8JYX
The opponent starts out with Politoed and Abomasnow. I briefly muse whether the team was dual weather, but nope, only Abomasnow has its weather ability. That, unfortunately, means Hail will break Sturdy on the first turn. I switch my Aron out for Conkeldurr to avoid that, and Conkeldurr brings Abomasnow down to with red health, but it uses Blizzard on both members of my team, freezing Conkeldurr. :/ If I use Heal Pulse, both Politoed's and Abomasnow's attacks are sure to take Conkeldurr out, so I have Aromatisse go for Dazzling Gleam to at least take Abomasnow down. Conkeldurr doesn't defrost, so it faints. D: I then send out Kangaskhan for Fake Out and general damage. My misplay the turn after that is using Double-Edge on Politoed instead of Nidoking; if I had Kangaskhan take Nidoking out first, it wouldn't have been able to use Poison Jab and take out Aromatisse, and maybe I could've had Aromatisse use Heal Pulse and have Kangaskhan healthy enough to survive Politoed's attack the next turn. Then Aron was left against Gastrodon and Nidoking, and since there's no partner to deal damage, it's impossible for me to win. At least I don't feel too bad about the loss, since I can blame it on hax. :P
Onto the team in detail:
This team is my variation of Endeavor Aron teams, like some of those of previous posters. I noticed that the general team construction is reminiscent of SqueakySquirtle's team, as it has team roles of Trick Room setter/Endeavor Aron/slow Fighting-type/Mega. The latter two roles are similar by coincidence, since I really just chose two Pokemon that worked well in Trick Room but did not rely on it.
I'm wondering if Endeavor Aron teams should be moved to a separate section, like Entrainment teams, since it's a one-two combo that can decimate half of the Maison without fault? What do you think, Eppie? (By the way, you spelled Hippowdon as Hippodown in the first post.)
Tracce (Aromatisse) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Aroma Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 6 Def
IVs: 0 Spe
Sassy Nature
- Trick Room
- Dazzling Gleam
- Odor Sleuth
- Heal Pulse
Aromatisse was my first choice of a Trick Room setter over Pokemon such as Cresselia for multiple reasons. The first I saw was its immunity to Taunt from Aroma Veil, freeing up the debate of whether to use a Mental Herb or Lum Berry to prevent Trick Room from not being set up. It's comforting to know that neither Taunt nor Freezing will stop it from using Trick Room. The second feature Aromatisse has over Cresselia is its reliable spread move. Dazzling Gleam has STAB and deals 80 base damage with 100% accuracy, and no Pokemon is immune to it. Cresselia only has Swift (immune by Ghosts) and Icy Wind (inaccurate, non-STAB, and helps other Pokemon become 'faster' in Trick Room).
The only way to prevent it from setting up Trick Room is to get a lucky flinch or to OHKO it, which, while not impossible, is unlikely due to the investment in its defensive stats and the Maison's AI. If I know one of the opponent's Pokemon will target and potentially KO Aromatisse, I will still try to get it to set up Trick Room, but I'll have Aron use Endeavor to dish out damage with Sturdy keeping it alive. Once Trick Room is up, Aromatisse goes on the offensive, picking off Endeavor-weakened opponents with Dazzling Gleam and generally whittling frailer Fighting- and Dragon-type Pokemon like Breloom or Noivern to save Aron from a hit.
I knew before I ventured into the Maison that Ghost-type Pokemon were troublesome for Aron, being immune to Endeavor, so if I get into a situation where both opposing Pokemon are of the Ghost-type, Aromatisse can make one of them hittable with Odor Sleuth while Aron uses Protect against the opponent's miscellany of attacks. Another fantastic effect of Odor Sleuth is that is shuts down evasion. I've used Odor Sleuth against that Cresselia with Double Team and that Blissey with Minimize (a potential chimera of a nightmare, I must comment) to make them more manageable. I didn't realize it until I completed EV-training my Aromatisse how useful a move Odor Sleuth is, but it really streamlines battles for me. :)
In the case Aron faints early due to status, priority, or general hax, Aromatisse can provide utility beyond poking the opponent with uninvested Dazzling Gleams by healing 50% of its partner's HP with Heal Pulse. ouob
If you're looking to emulate the team, I think Dusclops is an alternate option for a Trick Room setter that has several advantages and disadvantages. It has Foresight, which acts the same as Odor Sleuth, for dual Ghost leads. It can use Frisk to determine which Pokemon have Sitrus Berries and so are not to be attacked with Endeavor, at the expense of being susceptible to Taunt. It is much tankier than Aromatisse and so will not get KOed by the threats Aromatisse faces, but it sacrifices its Lum Berry for that bulk, meaning Paralysis, Confusion, or, if you're unlucky, Freeze will stop it from setting Trick Room up. Dusclops does get a multitude of spread moves (Icy Wind, Blizzard, Swift, Rock Slide, Bulldoze, and Earthquake) to chip off weakened opponents, but all of them have their detriments in contrast to the perfectly accurate, always-damaging Dazzling Gleam. Dusclops doesn't have support options, unlike Aromatisse, so its weight isn't great outside of Trick Room.
Fenori (Aron) @ Berry Juice
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 1
Shiny: Yes
EVs: None
Bashful Nature
- Protect
- Endeavor
- Toxic
- Sleep Talk
I had bred an Aron for Endeavor in Gen. V, and the second egg hatched shiny, so Fenori is quite precious to me. :)
Aron's role in the Maison's pretty clear-cut; use Endeavor the opponents and give its partner free turns. Protect gives Aromatisse a clear set-up for Trick Room and keeps it alive as a designated target while one of my late-game Pokemon can attack without fear of harm. Endeavor brings opposing Pokemon down to 12 HP (or one, if Sturdy activated twice), which, under most circumstances, allows Aromatisse to finish them off with Dazzling Gleam. Because Aron can take two hits if it's at full HP, it is free to use Endeavor even if Aromatisse faints early; Endeavor in unison with a flinch from Kangaskhan's Fake Out works nicely with taking opponents down.
Toxic is one of those moves that is mostly filler but is quite handy under rare circumstances. In particular, I recall one incident where I needed to stall out the opposing Ghost-type Pokemon between Toxic and Protect with Kangaskhan's help. I kinda wish I kept the battle video so I remember exactly what I did, but I do remember that the battle shows how Toxic is invaluable, as niche it is.
I honestly never used Sleep Talk. :U Pokemon in the Maison like to use Thunder Wave or Will-O-Wisp much more than a sleep-inducing move. I originally had Shadow Claw in this slot to tap away at Toxic-immune Pokemon and break a Gengar's Focus Sash or something, but the utility of a fourth move is small enough to be unneeded, essentially.
Ma'am (Kangaskhan) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Double-Edge
- Sucker Punch
- Earthquake
This is the same Kangaskhan that I used on my Super Singles team, as you can see here. Mega Kangaskhan provides as much gravitas in Singles as it does in Doubles--possibly more.
Fake Out provides much more utility than a free Mega Evolution turn; having an opponent Pokemon flinch means Aron needs to take one fewer hit to use Endeavor outside of Trick Room. Minimizing prediction and risk is quite useful with that in mind. Double-Edge again is my choice of STAB, sacrificing a small bit of recoil for more power. Sucker Punch is great priority, and it, alongside Fake Out, can be used without fear of speed tiers in and out of Trick Room. Earthquake is there for coverage, again, and spread damage. It's a small bother that Earthquake deals damage to partner Pokemon, but I try to have Aron use Protect or have Conkeldurr out to soak up the damage (while healing it off with Drain Punch).
Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 SpD
Brave Nature
- Mach Punch
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch
Note: This Conkeldurr does not have perfect stats (like 0 Speed IVs for Trick Room), since it was bred in Gen. V without the help of RNGing. Also, I haven't updated its EVs to take advantage of Assault Vest. >>; That might've been useful for the match I lost.
Conkeldurr is one of those Pokemon that works well outside of Trick Room but works even better in it. :D I chose Conkeldurr because, aside from having one prepared from Gen. V, it doesn't mind status conditions, which would otherwise be detrimental in the haxy Maison. In addition, Conkeldurr gets Knock Off for removing an otherwise bothersome Chesto Berry or Bright Powder and Ice Punch for Super-Effective damage against Flying- and other types that resist its STAB. It's fun to outspeed Pokemon such as Landorus with Trick Room up and cleanly KO it. In the Battle Maison, as Azumarill is non-existent, Conkeldurr's moves get perfect coverage--it gets great super-effective coverage, too.
I did realize after reading through SqueakySquirtle's team that Machamp is similar to Conkeldurr in stats and utility. Instead of Mach Punch and Drain Punch, Machamp can use Bullet Punch and Dynamic Punch. However, my primary concern was that if Machamp gets burnt, its damage decreases instead of increasing with Guts. In addition, its speed tier is less useful for Trick Room compared to Conkeldurr's, forgoes Drain Punch's recovery, and does not get STAB on priority. I figure those disadvantages outweighed perfect accuracy (as tempting as that might be) and the possible confusion hax gained through Dynamic Punch, so I kept Conkeldurr.
--
Endeavor Trick Room works well against the in-game AI for several reasons.
- As previous users have said, the AI will focus on KOing Aron the majority of the time, allowing its partner to attack freely or, in my team, set up Trick Room.
- Within Trick Room, opposing Pokemon will still try to use Dragon Dance to boost their stats, Substitute to trigger a Salac or Liechi Berry, or Icy Wind to lower my team's speed. The former two give Aron a free turn without breaking Sturdy.
- The AI will try to reverse Trick Room, but honestly, if it goes back to trying to target Aron again the next turn, I can get Aromatisse to get Trick Room up without loss.
- Trick Room Endeavor is precise in the sense that there's no uncertainty in how much damage the opponent will take, and critical hits mean nothing against Sturdy or against an opponent with 12 or fewer HP. As always, I try to minimize randomness.
- Since only my backup team members depend on the Attack stat, Intimidate teams are buffered, although they can still be bothersome if they get the -1 stat drop in.
- The dreaded Sheer Cold Walrein or Fissure Donphan will always try to use OHKO moves on Aron first and fail before 'learning' to attack the other Pokemon, which essentially gives me a free turn to use Endeavor on the opponent's partner Pokemon. I'd actually recommend leaving that Sheer Cold Walrein last, since it can't do anything to Aron (but don't do that with the Donphan, since it still carries other attacking moves).
Highest priority
- Mold Breaker: Bypasses Sturdy.
- Double Team/Minimize/Mud Bomb/Muddy Water: The last thing I need is hax. :/
- Multiple-hit attacks: Bullet Seed, Rock Blast, etc. I haven't seen them in the Maison, though, but as a precaution, I've listed them here.
- High-damage area-of-effect attacks: Earthquake, Rock Slide, Blizzard, etc.
- Priority attacks: Quick Attack, Aqua Jet, etc., unless the user also carries a Sitrus Berry.
- Trick Room: Opposing Pokemon can reverse Trick Room. This is typically just a hassle, but the other Pokemon on the opponent's side still gets a free hit.
- Pokemon that underspeed Aromatisse
- Status/passive damage move users
- Pressure: Endeavor only has 8 PP at most, and while it should be enough for four uses, an opponent's Protect or two Pressure users at once take its PP down very quickly.
- Physical tanks: Makes it easier for my backup Pokemon to break through, since they're both physical attackers.
- Attacks with status as a secondary effect: Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, Heat Wave, etc. I don't want to risk a 10% chance of status.
- Low-damage area-of-effect attacks: Icy Wind, Incinerate, etc. The AI is less willing to attack Aromatisse the higher its HP is, so it helps to keep its HP up.
- Inaccurate attacks: Focus Blast, Hydro Pump, etc. I wouldn't mind a miss and extra turn to use Endeavor.
- Focus Punch: The AI likes trying to use Focus Punch on Aron, despite the fact Aromatisse's Dazzling Gleam will cause it to flinch, so that counts as a free turn for Aron.
- Pokemon with low Defenses/weak to Dazzling Gleam: Floatzel, Sawk, Close Combat users, etc. get KOed, giving Aron another turn for Endeavor.
- Sitrus Berry: Some Pokemon holding Sitrus Berry can survive Aromatisse's Dazzling Gleam after recovering from Endeavor.
- Contact-based abilities: Rough Skin, Iron Barbs, Mummy, Flame Body, Static, and Effect Spore debilitate Aron, so I'll only use Endeavor on them if Aron is down to 1 HP. No Pokemon in the Maison holds Rocky Helmet, so I don't have to worry about those.
- Heatran: 4x resists Dazzling Gleam, so it can survive an attack at 12 HP. Conkeldurr can take it out without threat, anyway.
- Snow Warning: I switch out to preserve Sturdy and send in Conkeldurr, unless the opponent has a Tyrantrum or Talonflame or something. Then I sacrifice Aron's longevity to defeat one of those threats.
That being said, the strategy has many flaws. Trick Room is needed to almost completely secure a victory. If it's not up, the match is a bit more fair.
- Toxicroak 4 and Muk 4 have a low chance of using Gunk Shot on Aromatisse instead of targeting Aron, and Tyrantrum 4 will 100% of the time target Aromatisse with a Choice Banded Head Smash. Any of those cases results in Trick Room not set up and and the match starting essentially 4-3. If I see a Tyrantrum when Trick Room is not up, I will certainly use Endeavor on it to ease my loss (trying to make the match almost 3-3).
- Double Earthquake leads take a lot of damage off of Aromatisse. While Aromatisse can typically survive hits, it would have fainted if the opponent got any combination of Mamoswine 4, Marowak 3-4, or Excadrill 4 to double up on Earthquake. Any of those Pokemon deals over 50% damage with one Earthquake attack.
- Facing Talonflame is risky if it's backed up by other threats. It will use Quick Attack on Aron, taking up one use of Sturdy, and, at worst, Flame Body stops Sturdy from activating again or just KOs Aron. If Aron goes down but didn't get burned in the process, I have to be careful with which of my late-game Pokemon attacks Talonflame. Flame Body cuts Mega Kangaskhan's attack enough to give the opponent chances to attack back and KO, but Gale Wings Brave Bird ignores Trick Room and puts Conkeldurr into easy KO range, and since Conkeldurr doesn't carry Protect, it will faint on the next turn if Talonflame is still standing.
I was sure I was going to lose to the trainer that opened with Talonflame and Tyrantrum, but nope, it was a misplay and Freeze hax that got me, not bad matchups.
--
To coincide with this streak, I'm giving away Battle Maison items and foreign 4-5 IV Pokemon! See here for details!
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I realized that I could have uploaded the battle video to prove my record, but I didn't got to save it... I took a picture, but I don't really know if it is enough. I also took a picture of my trainer card, to at least prove that it is me in the picture. I know that it doesn't prove that it is my record at Multi Battle, but anyway, here it is:Hey guys! I do know that I don't post here often, but I am always watching the discussions and trying to put myself in the ranking... And after a few attempts I finally got something! Ok, it is in Multi Battle, but it is something... I finally defeated all the five, and got the trophies for all of them.
To defeat the Multi Battle Maison I had the AI help. That was my fifth attempt to defeat it. I couldn't create something better, and I really liked the strategy, so I kept on it until I finally got it. The team is:
Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite (my first Pokémon)
Jolly Nature - Trait: Scrappy
(252 Atk / 252 Spd / 6 HP)
- Fake Out
- Return
- Power-Up Punch
- Crunch
Porygon-Z @ Expert Belt (AI first Pokémon)
??? Nature - Trait: Download
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Signal Beam
- Charge Beam
I really don't like to rely on Sucker Punch... I changed it as soon as I realized that it could fail me in some point that it was necessary. You can really count on Porygon-Z most of the times. I usually start with Fake Out against something that can be a threat, something that normally holds Focus Sash or has Sturdy or something that Porygon-Z would not kill at first. Most often Porygon-Z attacks something that it would hit Super Effective, so I can predict which one it would be and attack the other one or even help it. That is a pretty good combination, I have to say.
Dragonite @ Weakness Police (my backup Pokémon)
Jolly Nature - Trait: Multiscale
(252 Atk / 252 Spd / 6 HP)
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Fire Punch
- Extremespeed
Umbreon @ Sitrus Berry (AI backup Pokémon)
??? Nature - Trait: Inner Focus
- Feint Attack
- Swagger
- Psych Up
- Screech
I know, I know. It is a really bad final combination. Three Pokémon that are weak agains Fighting-type? Well, that cost me some battles, but I sticked to it because I like the Kanga+Z combo and I really love Umbreon, and loved to play with it (I usually think that is it that counts after all, playing with the mons you like). First off I use Dragon Dance, normally, depending on what I have to kill. That is really arbitrary, since if I think that Dragonite is going to be hit by a Ice-type attack, I tend to kill the threat first. But then again, Blizzards cost me a few battles, too. I really cannot rely on Umbreon, it is very unpredictable and make some weird things sometimes, but it has high def and spdef, so it helped me in certain points.
With this team, I got to a streak of 66. I was expecting more, but it is ok. I don't know how a picture can be a prove here, since all the results independent of the facility would look like the same... If needed, just tell me and I will put it here.
I also got a 285 streak in Double Battle, but I will make some changes in the team and maybe post it later. Thank you guys for the attention and sorry for the bad english, it is not my native language.
And also my trophies picture. I completed it the day I first posted it... Here it is:
Currently I am trying to make a record at Rotation Battle. I created a great team that works very good. But I have to pay attention to Sheer Cold Articuno, that make me lose twice already (at battle 56 and at battle 78). How do you guys deal with it? Subs+Leech Seed Venusaur is being a pain too, but I think I got this... Thank you guys for the attention and sorry for the bad english!
It's over. Posting a streak of 528 wins:
Battle video: DRRG-WWWW-WWW7-8LUV
AI running Mamoswine/Weavile/Haxorus. Mamoswine is one of the most dangerous threats to the team, and sure enough, it freezes Greninja on the switch-in. Luckily, it gets no further freezes while I switch between Aegislash and Dragonite to get it into Outrage KO range with LO damage. Then out comes Weavile on the Outrage-locked Dragonite, crucially taking Multiscale, which lost me the fight. Switch in Aegislash on the Ice Punch. Afterwards I King's Shield on the possible Night Slash, which may or may not have been a misplay since next turn, Aegislash survived a critical Night Slash with 1HP, which would not have been possible if it had used Night Slash instead of Taunt and I didn't have an extra 10HP from Leftovers. Out comes Haxorus as the final Pokémon, outspeeding and KOing Dragonite and the 11-HP Aegislash. Another misplay here - it used Dragon Tail on Aegislash instead of EQ or DD (??) and if I King's Shielded on it, I would've won barring no crit on Dragonite. Not King's Shielding seemed like the better option at the time since I thought Nite would have a chance to survive Dragon Claw barely even with no Multiscale (which was wrong: 252 Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Dragon Claw vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 156-186 (93.4 - 111.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO) and was afraid of a Dragon Dance taking any possibility of a win away. I'm not too unhappy with the outcome, the misplays weren't huge and the AI had a very good team.
Another fun freeze video from two battles earlier, foreshadowing the loss: MZTW-WWWW-WWW7-8LVX
Greninja is amazingly survivable for something with LO and very frail defenses - gaining resistances with Protean lets it beat things it has no right to. For example, Grass Knot lets it beat Ampharos when it lands a CH Thunder, barring a paralysis proc. Grass Knot lets it tank STAB EQs. Grass and Water are the big defensive boons - sometimes, a low-power 30-40% Grass Knot to resist a hit followed by a 60-70% SE attack lets you land 2HKOs that would never happen otherwise. Water/Dark typing on the switch-in is perfect, inviting neutral non-STAB Focus Blasts, Electric attacks into Grass Knot, Grass moves into Ice Beam, and so on.
Battle video: DRRG-WWWW-WWW7-8LUV
AI running Mamoswine/Weavile/Haxorus. Mamoswine is one of the most dangerous threats to the team, and sure enough, it freezes Greninja on the switch-in. Luckily, it gets no further freezes while I switch between Aegislash and Dragonite to get it into Outrage KO range with LO damage. Then out comes Weavile on the Outrage-locked Dragonite, crucially taking Multiscale, which lost me the fight. Switch in Aegislash on the Ice Punch. Afterwards I King's Shield on the possible Night Slash, which may or may not have been a misplay since next turn, Aegislash survived a critical Night Slash with 1HP, which would not have been possible if it had used Night Slash instead of Taunt and I didn't have an extra 10HP from Leftovers. Out comes Haxorus as the final Pokémon, outspeeding and KOing Dragonite and the 11-HP Aegislash. Another misplay here - it used Dragon Tail on Aegislash instead of EQ or DD (??) and if I King's Shielded on it, I would've won barring no crit on Dragonite. Not King's Shielding seemed like the better option at the time since I thought Nite would have a chance to survive Dragon Claw barely even with no Multiscale (which was wrong: 252 Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Dragon Claw vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 156-186 (93.4 - 111.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO) and was afraid of a Dragon Dance taking any possibility of a win away. I'm not too unhappy with the outcome, the misplays weren't huge and the AI had a very good team.
Another fun freeze video from two battles earlier, foreshadowing the loss: MZTW-WWWW-WWW7-8LVX
To continue with threats, Mamoswine is probably the biggest one, as seen in the loss. It spreads freeze and OHKOes all Pokémon on the team, making freezes against it very costly. The near-universal threats in Garchomp, Walrein, and Sheer Cold Articuno are also big, though Donphan can be stalled out of Stone Edge PP safely with Aegislash-Flying. Freezers that aren't walled by Aegislash in general are very dangerous, as there is no Scald on any team member and Greninja will most likely not survive a freeze. Regigigas is a bitch, but Greninja does surprisingly well against it with Grass Knot being a 2HKO as a backup to straight Outrage should Nite fall to it. Froslass is nasty - Sash allows it to survive Greninja's attack and use Icy Wind, after which it can Destiny Bond. Switching in Aegislash could be possible, but between the risk of jumping into a surprise Shadow Ball and and letting Greninja trade one for one, I'll take the trade.Got the 500! And with a new, never seen before (at least on the leaderboards) team instead of Team Suizorus. And without Mega Evolution to boot. No streak to post since it's not over yet, but the team is as follows:
Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Roost
Aegislash @ Leftovers ** Bucklerapier
Ability: Stance Change
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 196 HP / 252 Atk / 60 SDef
- King's Guard
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Sneak
- Sacred Sword
Greninja @ Life Orb ** Glenn
Ability: Protean
Nature: Timid
EVs: 52 HP / 252 SAtk / 204 Spe
- Surf
- Grass Knot
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse
About the EV spreads: Aegislash's EVs are actually unoptimal for raw bulk because of the lopsided 60/150/150 defenses, but the reason for maximum HP-for-HP special bulk with optimal Leftovers recovery is Aegislash's tendency to get frozen and eat weak special attacks for 10 turns straight sustained only by Leftovers recovery. Against strong attacks it won't do much - but if the freeze is long and the hits are strong, Aegislash probably wasn't going to make it even with 167 HP and slightly greater bulk. The difference is pretty small and there were no instances where the EVs made a difference during this streak so far, but it's there.
Greninja is EV'd to hit 184 Speed, which outspeeds positive-natured base 115's like Raikou and Starmie. You give up outspeeding Alakazam and Hawlucha out of notable Pokémon, but Alakazam is better reserved as set-up fodder for Aegislash after Greninja gets tricked the Specs and Hawlucha is also food for Aegislash. The extra HP EVs push its hit points above 150, giving an extra point of LO damage, which decreases the already minimal HP increase, but it's been proven worth it during the streak - Greninja barely surviving a hit at 1-5HP has happened a lot of times, though usually not in a battle-deciding way.
I originally tried out Greninja on a whim after losing with Team Suizorusagain, adding Dragonite and Aegislash to complete the Dragon/Steel/Water core - Dragonite was an easy choice, and Aegislash looked like it could work well with Greninja coming in on Ghost/Dark/Fire attacks aimed at Aegislash, with the extra bonus of Greninja not caring about burn, unlike its more commonly seen partner in crime, Mega Kangaskhan. This streak is my first with this team - my expectations for Greninja were low and I'd intended to play around a bit and go back to grinding with Suizorusafter losing, but as it turns out I stumbled across a real beauty with this one.
The team plays pretty straightforwardly - Nite handles what it can, Aegislash can switch in on almost anything that Nite can't stay in on, and from there you can switch in Greninja if necessary. Dragonite and Greninja have a bit of anti-synergy with a shared Fairy weakness, but bringing in Aegislash as a buffer takes care of that quite nicely. The Aegislash-Flying combo allows stalling out QuakeEdge, OutrageEdge, and friends for easy, safe setup. I can't stress enough how simple it is to play, even with only a hundred battles with the team on record - misplays are the most common cause of lost streaks with otherwise solid teams, and they're hard to come by with this line-up. With Suizorusthere were a lot of convoluted cases - not so with this one.
That's it for now, I'll try to post some threats and other things once the streak's done - though I'm not quite sure what they are just yet, with only 500 battles with the team and no killer Pokémon like Magnezone/Togekiss/Volcarona/Zapdos for Suizorusappearing to bust the streak just yet.
Greninja is amazingly survivable for something with LO and very frail defenses - gaining resistances with Protean lets it beat things it has no right to. For example, Grass Knot lets it beat Ampharos when it lands a CH Thunder, barring a paralysis proc. Grass Knot lets it tank STAB EQs. Grass and Water are the big defensive boons - sometimes, a low-power 30-40% Grass Knot to resist a hit followed by a 60-70% SE attack lets you land 2HKOs that would never happen otherwise. Water/Dark typing on the switch-in is perfect, inviting neutral non-STAB Focus Blasts, Electric attacks into Grass Knot, Grass moves into Ice Beam, and so on.
Um, hi. Could you guys give me a hand?
Say, I am having some trouble with Multi Battles here. Mostly because, while I have a good partner, I can't find a good full team to go with him. Please keep in mind I am not a competitive battler so I am not that good with setups.
Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Solar Power -> Drought
Timid
6 Hp / 252 Sp. Atk / 252 Spd
- Flamethrower
- Solarbeam
- Air Slash
- Dragon Pulse
I really don't like Fire Blast hax missing despite hitting harder. Solarbeam is a must against Water and Rock Types. Dragon Pulse doesn't see much use, but it takes care of Dragons that stop the Sunlight + Eruption strategy I am using. Air Slash is a nice secondary Stab.
My 'partner:
Typhlosion @ Choice Scarf
Flash Fire
Don't know the Nature
Don't know the EVs
- Eruption
- Heat Wave
- Focus Blast
- Solarbeam
Feraligatr @ Lum Berry
Sheer Force
Don't know the Nature
Don't know about EVs
- Earthquake
- Aqua Jet
- Waterfall
- Ice Punch
The strategy is simple, lead with Zard and mega evolve so Typhlosion's Eruption becomes a nuke. Since Typh is Scarfed it's very unlikely he will be outsped so Eruption will almost always come out with its full 150 power, which boosted by Sunlight pretty much kills everything that doesn't resist it. Water types are likely to survive, but then Charizard just uses solarbeam, if anything else Zard's flamethrower takes care of it.
The problem comes against Rock types (Water is weakened by Sunlight and earth goes down with Eruption anyways), which can one Shot Charizard due to its 4x weakness to rock. While the bulkier ones will go down between Eruption and a Solarbeam, my problem comes from the fast ones like Aerodactyl and Archeops which may resist Eruption and charizard is slower than them to finish them. Also, Typhlosion may not use Eruption against them if they come with a Pokemon that doesn't take SE damage from Eruption.
Though I think I noticed that the AI will use Eruption if I Mega Evolve Zard and activate Sunlight despite resistances and that Feraligatr being Earthquake spam happy is because Sunlight is active and Water is weakened (I know it may be basic knowledge but I am not familiar with weather AI so please confirm this to me.)
The problem here is my second Pokemon. I can't find anything that works well enough so far. Charizard Y and Eruption + scarf Typhlosion combo is just good and all my other AI partners are simply awful, so I want to stick to this strategy, however I don't have anything that can come afer Zard when he falls and also Sunlight screws over Feraligatr, who because of the Sun gets Earthquake spam happy.
So I need something that can take Rock moves and keep going and something that isn't weak to earthquake, to cover Zard.
I was thinking of Rotom Wash because: 1. Can take water attacks if I switch Zard before it mega evolves and activates drought (may not resist rock, but has good enough defenses to take a hit). 2. Levitate allows to go with Feraligatr without getting hurt by Eartquake 3. Typing allows to strike all type advantages against Zard and Typh 4. Can use Rain Dance so Feraligatr can actually use its Water attacks (that is if Typh is already out or too weak to properly use Eruption)
So I was thinking about this:
Rotom Wash @ Leftovers
Levitate
Modest
252 HP / 6 Def / 252 Sp. Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt (I don't want to use Thunder
- Rain Dance (So that Feraligatr can go Crazy with his water moves)
- Will o Wisp
At least seems a good idea to me, but perhaps there are better choices as the last party member I am missing. Still, thanks in advance.
Say, I am having some trouble with Multi Battles here. Mostly because, while I have a good partner, I can't find a good full team to go with him. Please keep in mind I am not a competitive battler so I am not that good with setups.
Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Solar Power -> Drought
Timid
6 Hp / 252 Sp. Atk / 252 Spd
- Flamethrower
- Solarbeam
- Air Slash
- Dragon Pulse
I really don't like Fire Blast hax missing despite hitting harder. Solarbeam is a must against Water and Rock Types. Dragon Pulse doesn't see much use, but it takes care of Dragons that stop the Sunlight + Eruption strategy I am using. Air Slash is a nice secondary Stab.
My 'partner:
Typhlosion @ Choice Scarf
Flash Fire
Don't know the Nature
Don't know the EVs
- Eruption
- Heat Wave
- Focus Blast
- Solarbeam
Feraligatr @ Lum Berry
Sheer Force
Don't know the Nature
Don't know about EVs
- Earthquake
- Aqua Jet
- Waterfall
- Ice Punch
The strategy is simple, lead with Zard and mega evolve so Typhlosion's Eruption becomes a nuke. Since Typh is Scarfed it's very unlikely he will be outsped so Eruption will almost always come out with its full 150 power, which boosted by Sunlight pretty much kills everything that doesn't resist it. Water types are likely to survive, but then Charizard just uses solarbeam, if anything else Zard's flamethrower takes care of it.
The problem comes against Rock types (Water is weakened by Sunlight and earth goes down with Eruption anyways), which can one Shot Charizard due to its 4x weakness to rock. While the bulkier ones will go down between Eruption and a Solarbeam, my problem comes from the fast ones like Aerodactyl and Archeops which may resist Eruption and charizard is slower than them to finish them. Also, Typhlosion may not use Eruption against them if they come with a Pokemon that doesn't take SE damage from Eruption.
Though I think I noticed that the AI will use Eruption if I Mega Evolve Zard and activate Sunlight despite resistances and that Feraligatr being Earthquake spam happy is because Sunlight is active and Water is weakened (I know it may be basic knowledge but I am not familiar with weather AI so please confirm this to me.)
The problem here is my second Pokemon. I can't find anything that works well enough so far. Charizard Y and Eruption + scarf Typhlosion combo is just good and all my other AI partners are simply awful, so I want to stick to this strategy, however I don't have anything that can come afer Zard when he falls and also Sunlight screws over Feraligatr, who because of the Sun gets Earthquake spam happy.
So I need something that can take Rock moves and keep going and something that isn't weak to earthquake, to cover Zard.
I was thinking of Rotom Wash because: 1. Can take water attacks if I switch Zard before it mega evolves and activates drought (may not resist rock, but has good enough defenses to take a hit). 2. Levitate allows to go with Feraligatr without getting hurt by Eartquake 3. Typing allows to strike all type advantages against Zard and Typh 4. Can use Rain Dance so Feraligatr can actually use its Water attacks (that is if Typh is already out or too weak to properly use Eruption)
So I was thinking about this:
Rotom Wash @ Leftovers
Levitate
Modest
252 HP / 6 Def / 252 Sp. Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt (I don't want to use Thunder
- Rain Dance (So that Feraligatr can go Crazy with his water moves)
- Will o Wisp
At least seems a good idea to me, but perhaps there are better choices as the last party member I am missing. Still, thanks in advance.
Grats everyone on the recent streaks :)
Niickie There aren't too many ways to deal with the Sheer Cold Articuno. I've recommended using Substitute to stall out OHKO users earlier in the thread, but the problem is that Articuno also has Ice Beam so you'd need to use a Pokemon whose sub won't be broken by that. It doesn't have any SpA EV's though so anything with sufficient special bulk and an ice resist should work (Scizor or Suicune for example). You could also use a Pokemon with the ability Sturdy or even just one with Focus Sash attached with a 100% accurate move that can 2HKO it.
Btw I'm aware that my own Nite/Cune/MegaKhan team doesn't contain any of these measures. It's probably the one flaw in the team. It's just that if I delete literally any of the 12 moves I use currently for Substitute then the team becomes vulnerable to other threats :/
edit - Yonanoveau I like your idea of using Rotom-W, but I'd definitely use Surf > Hydro Pump for the accuracy and Thunder > Thunderbolt since Rain Dance will make Thunder never miss. Also I just want to point out that if you're only concerned about Aerodactyl and Archeops then they both get destroyed by Scizor's Bullet Punch.
Niickie There aren't too many ways to deal with the Sheer Cold Articuno. I've recommended using Substitute to stall out OHKO users earlier in the thread, but the problem is that Articuno also has Ice Beam so you'd need to use a Pokemon whose sub won't be broken by that. It doesn't have any SpA EV's though so anything with sufficient special bulk and an ice resist should work (Scizor or Suicune for example). You could also use a Pokemon with the ability Sturdy or even just one with Focus Sash attached with a 100% accurate move that can 2HKO it.
Btw I'm aware that my own Nite/Cune/MegaKhan team doesn't contain any of these measures. It's probably the one flaw in the team. It's just that if I delete literally any of the 12 moves I use currently for Substitute then the team becomes vulnerable to other threats :/
edit - Yonanoveau I like your idea of using Rotom-W, but I'd definitely use Surf > Hydro Pump for the accuracy and Thunder > Thunderbolt since Rain Dance will make Thunder never miss. Also I just want to point out that if you're only concerned about Aerodactyl and Archeops then they both get destroyed by Scizor's Bullet Punch.
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StarKO Rotom doesn't get surf :/
Yonanoveau I thought you could maybe try an Azumarill as your lead, it can Aqua Jet lead Aerodactyl and Archeops for decent damage which let's Typhlosion finish them off with Eruption (provided it chooses it). The only problem is that Scarf Aero will out-speed Typh and either ohko or weaken it so bad that Eruption will do nothing. Azumarill can also use Helping Hand to power up Eruption.
If you wanna keep Charizard then I would try to get Ancient Power on it somehow (maybe dropping Air Slash). Protect is also a solid move on any Pokemon in doubles so maybe that would work better.
Really there's no good way to deal with those fast rock types without compromising your Sun+Eruption strategy too much :( I've really wanted to try the combo but I don't have any AI partners with Typhlosion. Pretty much the only things that hurt it bad (afaik) are those previously mentioned fossil birds and probably also Scarf-Manectric. Maybe explore things like Fake Out and Wide Guard. Mienshao can use both so that could be a good partner...
Yonanoveau I thought you could maybe try an Azumarill as your lead, it can Aqua Jet lead Aerodactyl and Archeops for decent damage which let's Typhlosion finish them off with Eruption (provided it chooses it). The only problem is that Scarf Aero will out-speed Typh and either ohko or weaken it so bad that Eruption will do nothing. Azumarill can also use Helping Hand to power up Eruption.
If you wanna keep Charizard then I would try to get Ancient Power on it somehow (maybe dropping Air Slash). Protect is also a solid move on any Pokemon in doubles so maybe that would work better.
Really there's no good way to deal with those fast rock types without compromising your Sun+Eruption strategy too much :( I've really wanted to try the combo but I don't have any AI partners with Typhlosion. Pretty much the only things that hurt it bad (afaik) are those previously mentioned fossil birds and probably also Scarf-Manectric. Maybe explore things like Fake Out and Wide Guard. Mienshao can use both so that could be a good partner...