Trick Room Teams in UU

[KnivesInAToaster]

I browse the forums from time to time when I feel being a masochist who doesn't know what he's talking about usually.

...But occasionally I notice small things like this. I have a question that will probably end with everyone on the forums yelling at me, but does anyone believe that Trick Room Teams are viable in UU right now?

Going over who can actually set Trick Room...

Reuniclus

With an immunity to hazards and residual damage plus a very respectable Special Attack stat, it seems like it'd be a good Trick Room setter for hyper offensive teams. With the correct EV/IV distribution it can become the fastest Pokemon in UU under Trick Room only tied with Slowbro. It's movepool is also diverse enough to cover a good amount of threats in the UU Tier under Trick Room such as Hydreigon, Houndoom and Chandelure.

However, outside of Trick Room it's one of the slowest Pokes in the UU Meta, yet again tied with Slowbro. As such, it can't take repeated hits very well and doesn't enjoy the prospect of priority regardless of Trick Room or not.

Slowbro
One of the traditional tanks of the UU tier, Slowbro has a lot going for it that'd make it a reliable Trick Room setter. One being it's fantastic defenses, one being it's respectable Special Attack and one being it's Hidden Ability that I'm pretty sure everyone has a love-hate relationship with, Regenerator. As such, it can force switches if your opponent doesn't have a reliable way to get around it and can set up the Trick Room on said switch. When it takes too much damage, a simple switch restores a good portion of health.

However it has the same issues as Reuniculus does above bar the defenses. However, on the other hand it has very common weaknesses that don't give him much wiggle room when put face-to-face with them.

Aromatisse

Aromatisse is one of the many, many bulky fairies; but what it has above it's competitors is a very good ability in Aroma Veil and access to Trick Room, making it a very decent TR setter in UU. Being immune to Taunt by itself makes this a very valuable Pokemon but decent defenses, a very good support movepool with Wish, Aromatherapy and Dual Screen, plus not being complete set-up fodder is pretty good (at least in my eyes). However, the typing doesn't necessarily help it much and having to switch in to reset Trick Room every couple of turns can wear it down fast with hazards up.

(Credit goes to CoolStoryBrobat for the next three Pokemon.)

Cofagrigus

Generation 5 had Cofagrigus sweep under the effects of Trick Room and the same could be held here as it's STAB got a lot better. Regardless, Cofagrigus is a very solid wall with a very solid type (bar Knock Off......), and while it may not be able to switch in on everything this Gen, it's still a very solid Physical wall with a situational but useful ability. A very good support movepool including the ever prevalent Knock Off, Will-o-Wisp and a strong STAB in Shadow Ball makes this coffin still a decent choice for a Trick Room setter.

(Credit goes to Sleepless for this as well as CoolStoryBrobat.)
Victini

Ah, Victini. The V of Victory shines brightly with you and for very good reason. With 100 base stats across the board, a very generous movepool and unpredictability that can make or break you, you've got one dangerous Pokemon on your hands even without Trick Room. As Victini is very prevalent to force Pokemon out, setting up a TR isn't much of a hassle for it; the problem lies in 100 across the board. As pointed out last generation, even with 0 IVs and 0 EVs (I believe, I might need to double check that), it still doesn't have enough "speed" because of that base 100 of his. However, all of it's made up for it's sheer power, and even though it has a very nasty weakness to hazards, it's still a good and unpredictable TR setter.

So here's my questions for everyone (more to be added as/if people post):

• Is a Trick Room dedicated team viable in UU?
• Who would be benefit most from the reversed speed tiers?
• Who is the best Trick Room setter in the UU Tier right now?
• Am I dumb for making this thread?

For that last one let's assume yes and see how quickly this is locked.

Also, if there are any issues that I should address or if I should reword the miniature bios or if I'm just an idiot for not thinking of something, please tell me.

 

[Petrico94]

Trick room is just as viable as any of the weather teams. It turns a team of pokemons weakness on its head and makes them very strong for the next 3-2 turns meanwhile any enemies focusing on speed and not bulk become useless. And for once having sticky web on your side is a good thing.
Uxie is able to set up trick room and tank a hit/set up screens, Bronzong is slow and I'm sure even with trick room Gyro Ball is good, and I know for sure Cofrigrigus makes good use of trick room for himself. And considering a lot of psychics get trick room, it might be helpful to add a knock off/dark sponge who still works in trick room.

 

[KnivesInAToaster]

Trick room is just as viable as any of the weather teams. It turns a team of pokemons weakness on its head and makes them very strong for the next 3-2 turns meanwhile any enemies focusing on speed and not bulk become useless. And for once having sticky web on your side is a good thing.

To be perfectly honest I haven't seen Sticky Web too many times in UU, but that is a very valid point. I really wish that Trick Room got more support, though, or at least a buff. Like instead of 3 turns, make it 5 or 6, or at least an item that extends the length of time.

Uxie is able to set up trick room and tank a hit/set up screens, Bronzong is slow and I'm sure even with trick room Gyro Ball is good, and I know for sure Cofrigrigus makes good use of trick room for himself. And considering a lot of psychics get trick room, it might be helpful to add a knock off/dark sponge who still works in trick room.

Can't believe I forgot about Cofagrigus, honestly. Trick Room was one of it's staple sets, albeit used less often.
Bronzong would probably be better off with a supporting set, honestly. It doesn't have sweeping stats to be perfectly honest.
Uxie... That'd actually be a pretty good idea.

 

[Sleepless]

Trick Room V-Create Victini is still viable, as after each hit it's speed will "increase".

 

[KnivesInAToaster]

Oh yeah, I totally forgot about Victini. Surprising since I watched TheFlamingSpade nearly turn a battle around with it once but still...
And to a lesser extent, Chesnaught actually fills a beatstick role in Trick Room teams. An essential +1 to speed with Hammer Arm plus an already low Speed Stat and an honestly great dualstab, the only thing holding him back at this point is his movepool, unfortunately.

 

[CoolStoryBrobat]

Trick Room's a pretty solid playstyle in UU, especially since it's able to take the momentum of most Offensive teams and pretty much turn them over on their head. Naturally though, it's going to have a harder time against Stall/Bulky Offense teams since they tend to often run slow Pokemon who either can at times "outspeed" your own Pokemon in Trick Room, or you could end up pretty much unable to really take advantage of the momentum in any way at all. And Trick Room without the move Trick Room being used, is basically a Bulky Offense team at the roots. What I hate most about it though, and what probably discourages me most from using it, is the real weakness to Knock Off spam...Most, almost all, Trick Room setters, being Ghost or Psychic-type, already are a liability against Knock Off abusers alone. (This includes Porygon2 because it hates losing that Eviolite) And using Trick Room will often force you to use a few Knock Off-weak mons just to keep your team going, meaning you're going to have to take advantage of either Mega Aggron, Ampharos, or Abomasnow to offset it a little bit.

Far as it goes, I have not tried a serious Trick Room team of my own in UU because I'm a terribad teambuilder and I always get stuck on things if I don't comfortably feel it's "right". However, I do have a couple movesets I have seen for Trick Room teams:

Hide

Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
Ability: Mummy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Will-O-Wisp
- Trick Room
- Destiny Bond

A defensive Cofagrigus set, that a dude named EnderZone used against me as an anti-lead of sorts. (In the event it was actually an Anti-Lead, Mental Herb would be a heck of a good item for it too, honestly) This thing basically annoys as much as it can with status and Shadow Ball until it's safe to get up Trick Room. Once that's done with, a quick Destiny Bond right before it goes out in order to take the foe with them and give something else a free switch with a few turns of Trick Room left. When it was used on me, it threw me off badly because I was honestly expecting the Nasty Plot + Trick Room set (a very good set in itself).

Wallbreakers are also especially important in Trick Room teams, as they pretty much are sitting on the corner of bulk and power, and they're also necessary to muscle past more defensively-oriented teams who don't mind being slower than you anyway. I would put Crawdaunt here as it was an enormous threat due to hitting hard and being almost impossible to outpace in TR, meanwhile still being a threat after TR ended because of STAB Adaptability Aqua Jet. But noo, he got lobbed. I would imagine things such as CB Swampert, Machamp, Granbull, Specs Slowbro, offensive Porygon2, Rampardos, Rhyperior, Druddigon, and even Bulk Up Scrafty could suffice as some of your hard hitters on Trick Room teams.

Another set that Kitten Milk told me about one time, was apparently this:

Hide

Victini @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD (I think that's what the spread is. Could also use 4 SpA)
Brave Nature
- V-Create
- Bolt Strike
- Energy Ball/Grass Knot
- Trick Room

Basically, Trick Room Victini was sort of a gimmick last gen, and this gen it still kinda is, but thanks to Weakness Policy and its decent 100/100/100 bulk, it's able to survive a hit and pretty much get a free +2/+2 and go to work. V-Create lowers your speed with each use, making you more and more of an issue to deal with after TR is up. If I'm not mistaken I think the key to this set is just getting TR up on a predicted SE move, banking on surviving and activating your insurance policy of doom. Once that's out the way, you spam V-Create and start obliterating everything in your path. I think, anyway. I saw it in action only once, and you'd probably have to ask Kitten Milk for some replays of it (If he has any). You could run Psychic over Bolt Strike too, I guess if ya want.

Last but not least is a set that I have honestly not tried or bothered to use myself, but this is a thing someone posted that they saw in Battle Spot. Since it has a pretty basic and straightforward function, I figure it's worthy of an honorable mention at least:

Hide

Trevenant @ Focus Sash/Life Orb (Maybe?)
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Shadow Claw
- Trick Room
- Destiny Bond

Before you start thinking I have some kind of fetish for suicidal Trick Room setters, I can imagine this set really throwing somebody for a loop, especially given how hard it deviates from any standard Trevenant set in general. It's got a respectable base 110 Atk stat and a strong STAB Wood Hammer to dispose of things with, but I would honestly have to playtest this myself before coming to any conclusions on it. Still worthy of a noteworthy mention though, right?

 

[KnivesInAToaster]

Is it bad to say that I was expecting to be yelled at for making this thread?

...anyway.

Trick Room's a pretty solid playstyle in UU, especially since it's able to take the momentum of most Offensive teams and pretty much turn them over on their head. Naturally though, it's going to have a harder time against Stall/Bulky Offense teams since they tend to often run slow Pokemon who either can at times "outspeed" your own Pokemon in Trick Room, or you could end up pretty much unable to really take advantage of the momentum in any way at all. And Trick Room without the move Trick Room being used, is basically a Bulky Offense team at the roots. What I hate most about it though, and what probably discourages me most from using it, is the real weakness to Knock Off spam...Most, almost all, Trick Room setters, being Ghost or Psychic-type, already are a liability against Knock Off abusers alone. (This includes Porygon2 because it hates losing that Eviolite) And using Trick Room will often force you to use a few Knock Off-weak mons just to keep your team going, meaning you're going to have to take advantage of either Mega Aggron, Ampharos, or Abomasnow to offset it a little bit.

Far as it goes, I have not tried a serious Trick Room team of my own in UU because I'm a terribad teambuilder and I always get stuck on things if I don't comfortably feel it's "right". However, I do have a couple movesets I have seen for Trick Room teams:

Hide

Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
Ability: Mummy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Will-O-Wisp
- Trick Room
- Destiny Bond

A defensive Cofagrigus set, that a dude named EnderZone used against me as an anti-lead of sorts. (In the event it was actually an Anti-Lead, Mental Herb would be a heck of a good item for it too, honestly) This thing basically annoys as much as it can with status and Shadow Ball until it's safe to get up Trick Room. Once that's done with, a quick Destiny Bond right before it goes out in order to take the foe with them and give something else a free switch with a few turns of Trick Room left. When it was used on me, it threw me off badly because I was honestly expecting the Nasty Plot + Trick Room set (a very good set in itself).

Wallbreakers are also especially important in Trick Room teams, as they pretty much are sitting on the corner of bulk and power, and they're also necessary to muscle past more defensively-oriented teams who don't mind being slower than you anyway. I would put Crawdaunt here as it was an enormous threat due to hitting hard and being almost impossible to outpace in TR, meanwhile still being a threat after TR ended because of STAB Adaptability Aqua Jet. But noo, he got lobbed. I would imagine things such as CB Swampert, Machamp, Granbull, Specs Slowbro, offensive Porygon2, Rampardos, Rhyperior, Druddigon, and even Bulk Up Scrafty could suffice as some of your hard hitters on Trick Room teams.

Another set that Kitten Milk told me about one time, was apparently this:

Hide

Victini @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD (I think that's what the spread is. Could also use 4 SpA)
Brave Nature
- V-Create
- Bolt Strike
- Energy Ball/Grass Knot
- Trick Room

Basically, Trick Room Victini was sort of a gimmick last gen, and this gen it still kinda is, but thanks to Weakness Policy and its decent 100/100/100 bulk, it's able to survive a hit and pretty much get a free +2/+2 and go to work. V-Create lowers your speed with each use, making you more and more of an issue to deal with after TR is up. If I'm not mistaken I think the key to this set is just getting TR up on a predicted SE move, banking on surviving and activating your insurance policy of doom. Once that's out the way, you spam V-Create and start obliterating everything in your path. I think, anyway. I saw it in action only once, and you'd probably have to ask Kitten Milk for some replays of it (If he has any). You could run Psychic over Bolt Strike too, I guess if ya want.

Last but not least is a set that I have honestly not tried or bothered to use myself, but this is a thing someone posted that they saw in Battle Spot. Since it has a pretty basic and straightforward function, I figure it's worthy of an honorable mention at least:

Hide

Trevenant @ Focus Sash/Life Orb (Maybe?)
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Shadow Claw
- Trick Room
- Destiny Bond

Before you start thinking I have some kind of fetish for suicidal Trick Room setters, I can imagine this set really throwing somebody for a loop, especially given how hard it deviates from any standard Trevenant set in general. It's got a respectable base 110 Atk stat and a strong STAB Wood Hammer to dispose of things with, but I would honestly have to playtest this myself before coming to any conclusions on it. Still worthy of a noteworthy mention though, right?

...All of these TR setters are a lot better than my modified Slowbro.

Cofragrigus would catch someone off guard without a shadow of a doubt, especially when that Destiny Bond is able to take out a big threat in the first two turns. I looked for mostly livability in the TR setters, but these ones... honestly work a lot better since they have one job to do. Guess that's my gen 5 instincts kicking in (everyone hated weather wars) but that's besides the point.

Tricktini seems like a pretty solid Pokemon all around, all things considered, and that was actually what I was talking about in an earlier post. Weakness Policy, though... That actually takes me by surprise. I didn't really give much thought to it since I've seen it used on one set - Weakness Policy Golem and what a story that is - but it is a viable idea since base 100 across the board does make it easier to live some hits.

Trevenant... I suppose it's easy to make the comparison to Cofragrigus since they're the same type (bar the grass for Trevenant). Still, it does really boil down to what your team needs and they both fill different roles. Cofragrigus can get a burn and take a Pokemon down with him while Trevenant's able to dish out a lot of damage and take a Pokemon down with him.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

What I hate most about it though, and what probably discourages me most from using it, is the real weakness to Knock Off spam...Most, almost all, Trick Room setters, being Ghost or Psychic-type, already are a liability against Knock Off abusers alone. (This includes Porygon2 because it hates losing that Eviolite) And using Trick Room will often force you to use a few Knock Off-weak mons just to keep your team going, meaning you're going to have to take advantage of either Mega Aggron, Ampharos, or Abomasnow to offset it a little bit.

This gen, TR teams at the very least got Aromatisse, who resists Knock Off, doesn't mind losing lefties/whatever you're using too much, and is most importantly immune to Taunt.

It's a very nice mon for TR teams.

 

[KnivesInAToaster]

This gen, TR teams at the very least got Aromatisse, who resists Knock Off, doesn't mind losing lefties/whatever you're using too much, and is most importantly immune to Taunt.

It's a very nice mon for TR teams.

I put an Aromatisse into my UU TR team and it is actually a lot more viable than I thought it'd be at first. It doesn't have the same switch recovery as Slowbro or immunity to hazards like Reuniclus but it does have a resistance to Knock Off and good team support through Aromatherapy and Wish. That and it's actually faster than a lot of threats in UU under Trick Room, somehow being faster than even Aggron under TR. My only complaint that I'd have to have about is that it has to take at least two hits to set up TR, which is feasible, but it's not an easy thing unless you bring it in after a KO. Otherwise two solid hits and you're done.

 

[Patrick1088]

Why no mention of aromatisse as a trick room setter? Its immune to taunt and encore which is the bane of tr teams since it stops their strategy and wastes turns...

Oh wait i some people mention it later on lol

 

[KnivesInAToaster]

Why no mention of aromatisse as a trick room setter? Its immune to taunt and encore which is the bane of tr teams since it stops their strategy and wastes turns...

Oh wait i some people mention it later on lol

To be honest, I actually didn't know Aromatisse got TR till someone pointed it out, and now looking at it... It's actually not bad.

 

[Petrico94]

Why is the OP still just Reuniclus and Slowbro?

 

[KnivesInAToaster]

Why is the OP still just Reuniclus and Slowbro?

I'll get to fixing that as soon as possible, my apologies.

 

[KnivesInAToaster]

Okay, added a few Pokemon to the OP. If you want more specific details, please just say so, otherwise I'll just keep them the way it is. If you can also write a better mock write up, I'd appreciate it since I feel like I'm just running in circles sometimes.

 

[Bouff]

imo, i would add mons that can abuse tr like rhyperior, escavalier, etc.

 

[KnivesInAToaster]

imo, i would add mons that can abuse tr like rhyperior, escavalier, etc.

...Valid point. I'll... Oh god I'm going to have to dedicate a weekend to this aren't I?

I'll do it starting tomorrow.

 

[Petrico94]

...Valid point. I'll... Oh god I'm going to have to dedicate a weekend to this aren't I?

I'll do it starting tomorrow.

Just get a list of pokemon that have 50> speed and filter out the ones that aren't even viable with 500 speed. Like he said you could also start with pokemon like Escavilier who don't even need it to fit into UU and consider how strong they could be getting the first hits in.

 

[KnivesInAToaster]

Just get a list of pokemon that have 50> speed and filter out the ones that aren't even viable with 500 speed. Like he said you could also start with pokemon like Escavilier who don't even need it to fit into UU and consider how strong they could be getting the first hits in.

Right, right, but things are just hectic right now and... to be honest I'm hungry. ^^;
I'll start compiling a list tonight, start writing up more report things tomorrow and we'll see where we go from there.

 

[President Shinra]

Would Ampharos-Mega be a good TR abuser? 165 Base Sp.Atk and 45 best speed seem like easily abusable qualities when in the room of tricks. Also, on a TR team the mega slot would probably be open because most megas are fast, and not good in a team like this.

 

[KnivesInAToaster]

Would Ampharos-Mega be a good TR abuser? 165 Base Sp.Atk and 45 best speed seem like easily abusable qualities when in the room of tricks. Also, on a TR team the mega slot would probably be open because most megas are fast, and not good in a team like this.

Oooooh, that it would I think. Good dual stabs, good movepool for the most part, only thing you'd need to potentially remove is fairies and that's not that hard, really.

 

[Patrick1088]

There are plenty of pokes to abuse trick room. Heres just a small list...
Escavalier, analytic magnezone (hits hard and fast in tr and then its power increases out of trick room thanks to analytic),machamp, rhyperior, slowking (access to nasty plot differentiates itself from slowbro), empoleon, level 1 smeargle (dark void, tr, endeavor, dragon rage), mega ampharos, mega banette, mega abomasnow, mega aggron, bouffalant ?, honchkrow is a little fast for tr, but that priority sucker punch and akward 71 base speed puts him faster than a slew of uu pokes in tr.

But, tr has a lot of options, its justvthe knock off buff hurt most trick room setters combined with the limited timeframe makes it very tough. So,you need to hit hard and fast everytime...

 

[acestriker19]

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/uu-playstyles-gen-6-trick-room.3501335/

Just putting it out there that I already made a Trick Room thread for UU...

 

[Turtleye]

Just saying, You note that Aromatisse's Typing doesn't help with setting up TR. You're wrong.
Aroma is one of the few 'mons that can reliably set TR and is not weak to dark. Also Fairy is a good defensive typing so what are you talking about n.n

 

[KnivesInAToaster]

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/uu-playstyles-gen-6-trick-room.3501335/

Just putting it out there that I already made a Trick Room thread for UU...

I didn't see it to be perfectly honest. Then again I did just read over this subforum so... my apologies.

Just saying, You note that Aromatisse's Typing doesn't help with setting up TR. You're wrong.
Aroma is one of the few 'mons that can reliably set TR and is not weak to dark. Also Fairy is a good defensive typing so what are you talking about n.n

My apologies, I was frankly exhausted yesterday and will get to fixing that soon.

 

[acestriker19]

I didn't see it to be perfectly honest. Then again I did just read over this subforum so... my apologies.

Before you make a thread click the magnifying glass in the upper right hand corner and search titles for your topic, anyways, don't worry about it feel free to steal whatever you want from the old thread I haven't played UU in a long time... and I don't really have the time to devote to managing a thread such as this right now (and relearning the meta) n.n