They don't have an issue with offensive buffs, they just have to serve a particular purpose, such as Espeed braviary becoming another Defog 'blocker'. also, they can't be mindless buffs
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Other The OU Theorymon Project (CLOSED)
- Thread starter alexwolf
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Probably Starmie would prefer something like Filter, instead of Regenerator.
EDIT: never mind, I made some calcs. With Filter and full HP investment would avoid some 0hko against which now has no way to survive, but would still be 2HKOed, so that's it. Let's just hope that next gen Starmie gets a buff in defences or a mega.
EDIT: never mind, I made some calcs. With Filter and full HP investment would avoid some 0hko against which now has no way to survive, but would still be 2HKOed, so that's it. Let's just hope that next gen Starmie gets a buff in defences or a mega.
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I think the reason Starmie got no votes is because it's still B- rank and thus ineligible.
While all great points, its just sad to me that one of the OU vets fell leaving Gengar as the sole representative. Just all kinds of crazy to me.
The ranking has not been updated, and if it was, it would be seen that it is in C ranking in the VR thread.
volt absorb jellicent will be a super good counter to megaman and non grass knot and non physical thundurus, that's for sure
Mmmh, I can't decide between the first two, they're both good options.
About Tangrowth, I think we already have enough poison grass types, even though could work as a physical variant of Amoongus.
About Sceptile, I don't think this will help that much. Is very frail, so fire will hurt anyway, even if neutral, and gaining 3 more weaknesses, one even x4 (and ice is everywhere) doesn't help for sure.
About Tangrowth, I think we already have enough poison grass types, even though could work as a physical variant of Amoongus.
About Sceptile, I don't think this will help that much. Is very frail, so fire will hurt anyway, even if neutral, and gaining 3 more weaknesses, one even x4 (and ice is everywhere) doesn't help for sure.
I don't see how Magic Guard will do much for Celebi, as it already has natural cure and is immune to spore, sleep powder, and leech seed. Sure it is a slightly better ability as it doesn't take any damage from status while its still in, and it doesn't take stealth rock damage, but I don't see Celebi's role changing much. Maybe I'm missing something important, but I don't see much of a rise in viability, as its biggest problems, Talonflame, Aegislash, anything with u-turn, and Bisharp, still plague it.
Weird, I was actually curious to see who suggested those ideas as two of them I like a lot. OH well.
First I will discuss Poison/Grass Tangrowth. As a physical wall, Tangrowth was making do with excellent stats with only so so typing. Now, he gainst more physical resistances (Fighting, x4 to Grass, and Fairy) make him arguably better than Mega Venu in some regards (as lord, his stats) while losing some weaknesses (Bug) and a nice resistance (Ground) with a primarily special weakness (Psychic). He has the makings to properly abuse this skill to great effect yet I do not know how crazy it will be considering he still has that Fire/Ice Weakness.
Then we have a new x4 ice weak dragon! Sceptile is faster than all dragons bar Noivern, has access to Dragon Pulse (course I really don't know if Sceptile would get Draco Meteor in this as well, but I would assume not), unique secondary STAB with high base power moves, he has the makings to really abuse this I guess as Choice Specs set will be silly on him (as if it wasn't already) so I look forward to this discussion.
Volt Absorb Jellicent is a volt-turn destroyer I guess but I still see it as just silly. More opportunities to be immune to something!
Magic Guard Celebi makes it job as a bulky mon much more manageable and seems more modest than a lot of the others in terms of what it will be able to do. I approve of the subtle-ness and can only say the no LO damage will be missed by his opponents.
First I will discuss Poison/Grass Tangrowth. As a physical wall, Tangrowth was making do with excellent stats with only so so typing. Now, he gainst more physical resistances (Fighting, x4 to Grass, and Fairy) make him arguably better than Mega Venu in some regards (as lord, his stats) while losing some weaknesses (Bug) and a nice resistance (Ground) with a primarily special weakness (Psychic). He has the makings to properly abuse this skill to great effect yet I do not know how crazy it will be considering he still has that Fire/Ice Weakness.
Then we have a new x4 ice weak dragon! Sceptile is faster than all dragons bar Noivern, has access to Dragon Pulse (course I really don't know if Sceptile would get Draco Meteor in this as well, but I would assume not), unique secondary STAB with high base power moves, he has the makings to really abuse this I guess as Choice Specs set will be silly on him (as if it wasn't already) so I look forward to this discussion.
Volt Absorb Jellicent is a volt-turn destroyer I guess but I still see it as just silly. More opportunities to be immune to something!
Magic Guard Celebi makes it job as a bulky mon much more manageable and seems more modest than a lot of the others in terms of what it will be able to do. I approve of the subtle-ness and can only say the no LO damage will be missed by his opponents.
I really like Magic Guard Celebi, it may be immune to Leech Seed and stuff, but I now see two amazing roles for it: U-turn / Baton Pass and Life Orb. It now is the only Pokemon who does not take entry hazard damage and has access to U-turn, which is invaluable for VoltTurn teams. Baton Pass plays a similar role, as it is not worn down now and constantly QuickPass. Then we have Life Orb. Magic Guard negates Life Orb, which is really cool. You can now run Nasty Plot / Energy Ball / Psyshock / Earth Power for a really good offensive Pokemon. A thing people have yet to mention is how hard it is to wear Magic Guard Celebi down, as now Toxic stalling is not an option and Recover greatly increases its longevity, making you forced to attack it. A cool set I think could work would be a Calm Mind set, with an EV Spread of 252 / 84 Def+ / 172 Speed with the moveset consisting of Calm Mind / Recover / Giga Drain / Earth Power, the EVs to be as physically bulky as possible and to outspeed max Speed Heatran. It could use some tweaking, but it might be cool. Overall, my vote goes to Magic Guard Celebi this round!
As for the other Theorymons, Volt Absorb Jellicent does not make sense flavor-wise, I don't like it very much. Grass / Poison Telligent is cool, but I don't think we really need to make Tangrowth harder to take down and it seems like a way too good of a buff. And Grass / Dragon Sceptile is just weird, I don't like Sceptile so bias, but I don't think Sceptile would make an impact on the metagame at all.
As for the other Theorymons, Volt Absorb Jellicent does not make sense flavor-wise, I don't like it very much. Grass / Poison Telligent is cool, but I don't think we really need to make Tangrowth harder to take down and it seems like a way too good of a buff. And Grass / Dragon Sceptile is just weird, I don't like Sceptile so bias, but I don't think Sceptile would make an impact on the metagame at all.
Isa Simple suggested Grass/Dragon Sceptile, but I don't know if someone else suggested it before which sometimes happens.
Edit: If Isa Simple is the person who originally thought of the idea, that would be cool because he would have two entries this round.
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Sceptile does not deserve the typing. Serperior ;-; . On a more serious note, Volt Absorb Jellicent seems interesting. It's a great partner to Mandibuzz. Mandibuzz doesn't mind physical SE attacks due to its great bulk but hates Special attacks. Jellicent patches up these weaknesses nicely with Volt Absorb. Magic Guard Celebi seems cool but overall I cannot see a pokemon that is interesting and game-changing. Poison-Grass Tangrowth is almost unkillable on the physical side but that's it. It doesn't have thick fat like Venusaur but has regenerator which is nice I guess. Now I don't know what I'm babbling about. I don't really like these theorymons unless someone can convince me otherwise. Magic Guard Celebi and Volt absorb Jellicent are the only two theorymons I'm looking out for
I really like Tangrowth because I would like something to replace Mega Venusaur on my stall team. Being able to counter Mega Mawile and Azumarill is always great. Tangrowth sheds its U-turn weakness which makes it an amazing pivot with Regenerator. It is immume to Toxic. Regenerator and Leftovers (or Assault Vest!) definitely make this better than Mega Venusaur. I can't think of many bad things to say about Tangrowth with this new defensive typing.
I don't see Sceptile doing too much right now, except as a Dragon-killer or to mop up late game. It just doesn't hit hard enough on the special side even with Life Orb and it doesn't have Calm Mind/Nasty Plot, and coupled with being quite frail. It gets Swords Dance and could make use of a physical Unburden set, but with only three attacks it runs into serious coverage issues. Grass/Dragon aren't bad neutral STABs but because they hit so many things neutrally or poorly they're not that great on something with such lackluster offenses. Having a 4x resistance to Water is cool, but I'm not sure it'll be enough. It'd be a very good Dragon-killer with SR (for Dragonite), at the very least.
I agree Volt Absorb doesn't seem to fit with Jellicent flavour-wise. Tentacruel might have been a better pick because it actually has stinging tentacles and has shown moves like Flash.
I agree Volt Absorb doesn't seem to fit with Jellicent flavour-wise. Tentacruel might have been a better pick because it actually has stinging tentacles and has shown moves like Flash.
This is cool except it doesn't beat Mega Mawile:
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 166-196 (41 - 48.5%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 330-390 (81.6 - 96.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Tangrowth cannot do anything in return. But other than that yeah, cool! Also, in the rare situation you let Azumarill set up, then you lose because Play Rough is a 2HKO without SR at +6, but that's super uncommon, so.
Actually, a physical AV set could 2HKO with EQ, and with 8 speed EVs it'll outspeed the average set. Definitely not a stop, but it can do something in return
252+ SpA Life Orb Celebi Ancient Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 426-504 (142.9 - 169.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Celebi Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 289-343 (71.5 - 84.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Celebi Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 335-398 (82.9 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Celebi Earth Power vs. 32 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 312-369 (111.8 - 132.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
My favorite Celebi has always been 252/252 HP/SpAtk Modest Celebi with a life Orb. It hits really hard but the problem was always that it died way too fast thanks to the Life Orb recoil and Sandstorm damage. As you can see above, very few of Celebis counter can actually switch into it. Thanks to Psychic and Hidden Power Fire even Scizor and Megasaur are scared of it. Unless you're Chansey or her fatter sister, switching into offensive Celebi can be very dangerous until you see the coverage it's running.
Unfortunately for Celebi, this goes both ways as Celebi cannot switch into any of these or many other Pokemon in OU for that matter. Celebi is not fast enough or powerful enough to be an offensive threat, and its bulk is compromised by its terrible defensive typing. Magic Guard makes it a huge pain in the ass for stall teams to deal with, but it already was a pain in the ass for stall. It has some advantages over Clefable, but Clefable's defensive typing makes it better overall in my opinion.
Actually, standard Mega Mawile runs around 132 Speed I believe, so you'd need to run 136. And does that account for the Intimidate drop from regular Mawile?
Mega Ampharos does not get Draco Meteor, but I see where this logic is coming from. I think it would be a good idea, but seems a bit odd to me.
Presumably that's because its base form isn't Dragon-type (like Charizard-X). They probably thought about it but didn't want to make exceptions.
Just my personal thoughts,
Magic Coat Celebi would certainly work, but between hazard control being easier, natural cure handling status, and it not addressing its many weaknesses, it probably won't get my vote.
Volt Absorb Jellicent will still be too vulnerable to dark and ghost, so the ability isn't enough for me.
Grass/Poison Tangrowth seems like a mini Venusaur. Sure its abilities will make it worth trying, but fire/ice weaknesses will hurt.
Grass/Dragon Sceptile doesn't get enough credit. First thing that came to my mind was a CB outrage set for revenge killing, not just dragons, but quite a lot of other things as well. Dragon can make any offensive poke better, and Sceptile fast enough to avoid getting hit from that much besides priority. That said, priority and Greninja (speed tie drama would kill me) worry me.
In general, this isn't our strongest slate. They all have problems that make them not quite enough. I hope there's some good discussion over these, because I don't know who I like best.
Magic Coat Celebi would certainly work, but between hazard control being easier, natural cure handling status, and it not addressing its many weaknesses, it probably won't get my vote.
Volt Absorb Jellicent will still be too vulnerable to dark and ghost, so the ability isn't enough for me.
Grass/Poison Tangrowth seems like a mini Venusaur. Sure its abilities will make it worth trying, but fire/ice weaknesses will hurt.
Grass/Dragon Sceptile doesn't get enough credit. First thing that came to my mind was a CB outrage set for revenge killing, not just dragons, but quite a lot of other things as well. Dragon can make any offensive poke better, and Sceptile fast enough to avoid getting hit from that much besides priority. That said, priority and Greninja (speed tie drama would kill me) worry me.
In general, this isn't our strongest slate. They all have problems that make them not quite enough. I hope there's some good discussion over these, because I don't know who I like best.
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