Other Victim of the Week! (Round III)

[farmer Potato]

Pokemon: Diggersby

Check or counter?: To this set, counter, to any other set, a very good check.

Set:

Diggersby@ Choice Band
Adamant Nature
252HP/252Atk/4SpD

Earthquake
Return
Quick Attack
U-Turn/Stone Edge

This Diggersby can come in o any move that Aegi carries, taking a sum from Iron Head only. After switching in, it immediately threatens with a STAB Earthquake that OHKO's even through Shield Form. All Aegi can do is KS, which does not drop Diggerby's Attack, and can only be used to stall 1, maybe 2 PP.

 

[Inspirited]

Pokemon: Hippowdon


Check vs Counter: counter

Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
IVs: 25 Spd
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy nature
- Slack Off
- Earthquake
- Whirlwind
- Toxic

Laughs at almost all Aegislash in all seriousness. The IVs are to out-slow minimum Speed Aegislash and catch it in Blade forme so Earthquake gets turned into an OHKO instead of a 3HKO in Shield Forme. Hippo doesn't miss the speed much, if at all, anyways. Special Defense drops, on switch in, suck and will leave Hippo with little HP after it takes out Aegislash since Hippo gets barely 2HKOed after the drop. Switching out and back in could be good to get rid of the annoying drop but Aegislash is hard to switch into so this probably won't happen. Otherwise, this Hippo isn't bugged by Aegislash in the slightest.

Damage Calculations

VS Blade:

• 252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 142-168 (33.8 - 40%) -- 30.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
• 0 Atk Aegislash-Blade Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Hippowdon: 108-127 (25.7 - 30.3%) -- 0.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
  
• 0 Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Hippowdon: 54-64 (12.8 - 15.2%) -- possibly the worst move ever
• 0 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 244 HP / 12 Def Aegislash-Blade: 404-476 (125.4 - 147.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO (even the Aegislash's ancestors felt this one :P )

VS Shield (although this is irrelevant because of the Speed)

• 0 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 244 HP / 12 Def Aegislash-Shield: 168-198 (52.1 - 61.4%) -- 96.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (this is always 3HKO after Kings Shield is used)

 

[assurance]

Pokémon: Hydreigon

Check or Counter?: Check

Reasoning: Thanks to its Dark-Typing Hydreigon resists the Ghost-STABs of Aegislash while it takes neutral damage of Iron Head but will never be 2HKOd without Atk-EVs. In return Hydreigon is easily able to OHKO the Blade-Form and to 2HKO the Shield-Form. Also Hydreigon doesn't have to worry about King's Shield because it mostly attacks with special moves. But also a physical based Hydreigon may win against Aegislash.

Set:

Hydreigon @ Choice Scarf / Life-Orb / Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
>> Probably the most common moveset for Hydreigon is an special All-Out-Attacker with different kinds of items. With Scarf it is able to function as a Revenger, Life-Orb uses the great offensive coverage of Fire/Ground/Dragon combined with a Dark-STAB (which actually became a really good offensive type because steel lost its resistance) und Choice Specs is great to break even special walls. On CS you often can find U-Turn for scouting and also Superpower on LO/Scarf is a good option to beat Blissey (but lost usage because of sylveon)

Also Sub- or Work-Up can be played, but is not really useful.

 

[DC-Shadow_Blaze]

Pokémon: Hydreigon

Check or Counter?: Counter

Reasoning: Thanks to its Dark-Typing Hydreigon resists the Ghost-STABs of Aegislash while it takes neutral damage of Iron Head but will never be 2HKOd without Atk-EVs. In return Hydreigon is easily able to OHKO the Blade-Form and to 2HKO the Shield-Form. Also Hydreigon doesn't have to worry about King's Shield because it mostly attacks with special moves. But also a physical based Hydreigon may win against Aegislash.

Set:

Hydreigon @ Choice Scarf / Life-Orb / Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
>> Probably the most common moveset for Hydreigon is an special All-Out-Attacker with different kinds of items. With Scarf it is able to function as a Revenger, Life-Orb uses the great offensive coverage of Fire/Ground/Dragon combined with a Dark-STAB (which actually became a really good offensive type because steel lost its resistance) und Choice Specs is great to break even special walls. On CS you often can find U-Turn for scouting and also Superpower on LO/Scarf is a good option to beat Blissey (but lost usage because of sylveon)

Also Sub- or Work-Up can be played, but is not really useful.

0 Atk Aegislash-Blade Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 135-159 (41.5 - 48.9%) -- 76.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

While it might play differently in practice, that's a lot of damage for a counter to take. The SubWorkUp set you mentioned would win, but with King Shield shenanigans on a Choiced Hydra, an additional Iron Head, followed by a Shadow Sneak just edges out a kill, albeit wounding Aegi pretty badly via Fire Blast.

 

[Inspirited]

Pokémon: Hydreigon

Check or Counter?: Counter

Reasoning: Thanks to its Dark-Typing Hydreigon resists the Ghost-STABs of Aegislash while it takes neutral damage of Iron Head but will never be 2HKOd without Atk-EVs. In return Hydreigon is easily able to OHKO the Blade-Form and to 2HKO the Shield-Form. Also Hydreigon doesn't have to worry about King's Shield because it mostly attacks with special moves. But also a physical based Hydreigon may win against Aegislash.

Set:

Hydreigon @ Choice Scarf / Life-Orb / Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
>> Probably the most common moveset for Hydreigon is an special All-Out-Attacker with different kinds of items. With Scarf it is able to function as a Revenger, Life-Orb uses the great offensive coverage of Fire/Ground/Dragon combined with a Dark-STAB (which actually became a really good offensive type because steel lost its resistance) und Choice Specs is great to break even special walls. On CS you often can find U-Turn for scouting and also Superpower on LO/Scarf is a good option to beat Blissey (but lost usage because of sylveon)

Also Sub- or Work-Up can be played, but is not really useful.

I actually like this one a lot, but it is still just a check imo. Hydreigon has a 73% chance to get 2HKOed after Stealth Rock is what bugs me and Aegislash can easily wear this particular Hydreigon down, even without Stealth Rock, by forcing it to come in on Iron Head twice or with Life Orb recoil by switching out realizing it is being checked. Hydreigon is definitely a solid check. This looks good otherwise :).

Edit 2: Sub Roost might be a soft counter actually. I may have to try this if I ever play OU consistently again
Edit: well it turns out DC-Shadow_Blaze is the ultimate ninja lol.

 

[assurance]

You're right, I'll change it to a Check.

 

[Air]

Chansey walls this set and can reliably heal off damage

Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Wish
- Protect

0 Atk Aegislash-Blade Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 162-192 (23 - 27.2%) -- 56.9% chance to 4HKO

Chansey can't deal any damage to aegislash, which makes it neither a check or a counter. Sure, it can PP stall it, but that's about it.

 

[rob.]

Bisharp

Counter:
I'm surprised no one has mentioned bisharp yet. Not only does bisharp wall every attack on that Aegislash set it reliably pursuit traps Aegislash. It also has the potential to receive a +2 attack boost thanks to its awesome ability 'defiant.' The only thing bisharp has to worry about is Aegislash's fighting typed coverage move 'Sacred Sword'. Which has a 30 percent chance to OHKO after stealth rock. Other than that bisharp reliably checks Aegislash.

Bisharp @ Assault Vest
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 64 HP / 252 Atk / 192 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Pursuit
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch

The posted Aegislash's best move against this set, and I was generous.
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 64 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Bisharp: 72-84 (25 - 29.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and 3 layers of Spikes

Edit: Not sure if we're supposed to just mention the set posted or common Aegislash sets. And to add on, pretty much any competitive Bisharp set will destroy aegislash; no matter if Bisharp is holding a life orb, dread plate, or black glasses. I just figured the assault best set countered this aegislash set the best.

 

[TaBuu]

Bisharp

Counter:
I'm surprised no one has mentioned bisharp yet. Not only does bisharp wall every attack on that Aegislash set it reliably pursuit traps Aegislash. It also has the potential to receive a +2 attack boost thanks to its awesome ability 'defiant.'

Bisharp @ Assault Vest
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 64 HP / 252 Atk / 192 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Pursuit
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch

check.
careful, cause aegislash can run sacred sword which will ohko a bisharp

 

[rob.]

Right I was confused at first of whether we were supposed to consider all the common sets or just the one posted, I corrected the error Tabuu

 

[Yayz]

Bisharp

Counter:
I'm surprised no one has mentioned bisharp yet. Not only does bisharp wall every attack on that Aegislash set it reliably pursuit traps Aegislash. It also has the potential to receive a +2 attack boost thanks to its awesome ability 'defiant.' The only thing bisharp has to worry about is Aegislash's fighting typed coverage move 'Sacred Sword'. Which has a 30 percent chance to OHKO after stealth rock. Other than that bisharp reliably checks Aegislash.

Bisharp @ Assault Vest
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 64 HP / 252 Atk / 192 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Pursuit
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch

The posted Aegislash's best move against this set, and I was generous.
0+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Iron Head vs. 64 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 67-80 (23.3 - 27.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and 3 layers of Spikes

Edit: Not sure if we're supposed to just mention the set posted or common Aegislash sets. And to add on, pretty much any competitive Bisharp set will destroy aegislash; no matter if Bisharp is holding a life orb, dread plate, or black glasses. I just figured the assault best set countered this aegislash set the best.

Actually, I mentioned him.

Bisharp @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch / Pursuit
- Iron Head
- Knock Off
- Swords Dance

Pokémon: Bisharp

Check or Counter?: Counter

Aegislash is quite easily destroyed by standard Bisharp. Bisharp can abuse Aegislash's reliance on King's Shield by Swords Dancing, or hit the weaker Blade Form with Pursuit:
252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Pursuit vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Blade: 632-743 (195 - 229.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
After a Swords Dance, everything is an easy KO against Aegislash.
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Pursuit vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 510-603 (157.4 - 186.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Aegislash can't do much back:
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 107-126 (39.3 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
However, Bisharp needs to watch out for the odd Sacred Sword, because you don't need a calc to tell you that 4x damage off of base 150 attack is a OHKO.

check.
careful, cause aegislash can run sacred sword which will ohko a bisharp

This is true. I thought we were basing it off of the set that was posted on page one.
If we want to be precise, we can say Bisharp Counters Aegislash not carrying Sacred Sword.

 

[TaBuu]

Round 2 has finished and Round 3 commences!
Check the OP for the next victim this week!
"Victim Of The Week"

Polls are a difficult thing lol. So once again, please post your vote within your post until further notice. ツ

EDIT : Poll is up and running~

Who do you want next for Round 4?
- Landorus Incarnate
- Thundurus Incarnate
- Tornadus Therian

 

[haunter]

.

 

[rob.]

Check:

Azumarill (F) @ Assault Vest
Trait: Huge Power
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Waterfall
- Knock Off
- Aqua Jet
- Play Rough

Reasoning: It's very hard to cover a top tier threat like Greninja because of its ability to utilize many different move sets and thanks to its ability 'Protean' it receives a boost on every damaging move it uses. Assault Vest Azumarill serves as a Greninja patch for most offensive or balanced teams, since Azumarill resist most of the common Greninja attacks. The only move it has to worry about is Grass Knot an attack the posted set lacks. Greninjas strongest attack against Azumarill is Extrasensory (252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Extrasensory vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill: 117-138 (29 - 34.2%) -- 2.8% chance to 3HKO). Azumarill can shake that off and OHKO with Play Rough. All in all Azumarill proves to be a decent answer for teams who have trouble dealing with Greninja.

 

[AM]

Pokemon: Chansey

Check or Counter?: Counter

Reasoning: Chansey is one of the primary special walls of OU, especially in stall teams, and Greninja has an extremely tough time cutting through it's special bulk. On top of that Chansey carries the Eviolite item which boosts her bulk even further by 50%. If that wasn't enough to wall Greninja, Greninja would eventually succumb to Life Orb recoil as Chansey sits there, takes hits, and heal off the damage. Calcs correlated to Greninja's set.

Calcs

Hide

With Eviolite:

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 83-99 (12.9 - 15.4%) -- possible 7HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 75-90 (11.6 - 14%) -- possible 8HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Extrasensory vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 75-90 (11.6 - 14%) -- possible 8HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 101-121 (15.7 - 18.8%) -- possible 6HKO

Without Eviolite (If it gets Knocked Off):
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Chansey: 125-148 (19.4 - 23%) -- possible 5HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Chansey: 110-133 (17.1 - 20.7%) -- possible 5HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Extrasensory vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Chansey: 110-133 (17.1 - 20.7%) -- possible 5HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Chansey: 153-181 (23.8 - 28.1%) -- 91.2% chance to 4HKO

Set:
Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SDef
Bold Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell

The set for this particular case works as team support and handles Greninja. Let the recoil damage of Greninja's Life Orb support you as you use pile on damage with Seismic Tosses to take it down. Use Wish in tandem with Protect in the rare case you must heal if confronted against a Greninja.

Chansey Seismic Toss vs. 4 HP Greninja: 100-100 (34.9 - 34.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Poll Choice: Landorus Incarnate (Already voted so this is for if there are any issues with the poll)

 

[Inspirited]

Pokemon: Sylveon

Check vs Counter: Counter

Umbreon @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
IVs: 0 Atk
Calm Nature
- Wish
- Foul Play
- Protect
- Heal Bell

Umbreon can comfortably snack on what ever Grenny throws at it. The move it fears most is U-Turn and it only does 47% max and something else will replace Greninja to take on Umbreon which is the case with every mon that Greninja U-Turns out against. If Greninja decides it wants to stay in and use Hydro Pump, it will be met with Foul Play which does a considerable amount when Greninja becomes neutral to it due to Protean. Umbreon can also perform its team supporting role with Heal Bell if Grenny isn't carrying U-Turn. The only thing Umbreon fears is a critical hit from U-Turn which will make it unable to counter or even check Greninja whenever Grenny decides it is safe to come back in. Freezes from Ice Beam are BS too. Other than these unfortunate scenarios, Umbreon handles the frog nicely.

Ze Calcs

Greninja vs Umbreon:

• If Greninja royally screws up: Greninja Extrasensory vs. Umbreon: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- aim for the horn next time
• 252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 43-52 (10.9 - 13.2%) -- possibly the worst move ever
• 252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 99-117 (25.1 - 29.7%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
• 252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 121-142 (30.7 - 36.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
• 0 Atk Life Orb Greninja U-turn vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Umbreon: 174-205 (44.2 - 52.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (I used Naive since that is what I would use alongside U-Turn)

Umbreon vs Greninja:

• 0- Atk Umbreon Foul Play vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 61-72 (21.3 - 25.1%) -- 0.2% chance to 4HKO (Timid Dark-type)
  
• 0- Atk Umbreon Foul Play vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 68-81 (23.7 - 28.3%) -- 93.1% chance to 4HKO (Naive Dark)
• 0- Atk Umbreon Foul Play vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 123-145 (43 - 50.6%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO (Timid Water-type)
  
• 0- Atk Umbreon Foul Play vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 136-162 (47.5 - 56.6%) -- 86.7% chance to 2HKO (Naive Water)
• If Greninja wants to commit suicide: 0- Atk Umbreon Foul Play vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 272-324 (95.1 - 113.2%) -- 75% chance to OHKO (Naive Psychic)

Edit: the poll is fixed for me, but if you still are having issues with it, then Thundurus-I has my vote

 

[skies]

Mega Gyarados is a Greninja Counter. Mega Gyarados resists every single move that Greninja throws at it except for U-turn and the rare Grass Knot, both of these are not listed on the set anywho. Mega Gyarados can be not Mega Evolved and still counter it, as the max that Greninja can throw at it would be Ice Beam + Hydro Pump, which maxes at 86.1% total. However Mega Gyarados can switch in on a Hydro Pump when in regular Gyarados form, then proceed to Mega Evolve. Or even if already Mega Evolved, it will beat Greninja. It can freely Dragon Dance all over Greninja and OHKOes it in return with Earthquake. Mega Gyarados can even run a Specially Defensive set and that set will beat Greninja up even more than usual. Overall, Mega Gyarados can be considered one of Greninja's largest counters!

Here are some sets!
Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 SDef / 248 HP / 8 Atk
Careful Nature
- Waterfall
- Roar
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

 

[V_Cliff]

Pokemon: Ferrothorn

Check or Counter: Counter

Reasonin: Despite losing 2 resistances in transition to Generation 6 ,Ferrothorn is one of the premier defensive grass Types in the Tier and checks Greninja and other dangerous Threats thanks to its soild bulk and unique Grass/Steel typing.It can endure most of its moves without Problems and can 2HKO in return with Powerwhip or use one of its support moves to help its team or harrass the opponent.As a nice side effect,if Greninja decides to U-Turn out,iron bars will remove 12,5% of its Health after using a contact move.Be careful, some Greninja sets run HP Fire specifically for mons who are 4x weak to Fire and without reliable recovery Ferrothorn might be not able to switch repeatedly into Greninjas attacks.However Ferrothorn is still an exellent support Pokemon and will stop the Frog in its Tracks most of the Time.

Ferrothorn@ Leftovers
Ability:Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP /4 Def /252 SpD
Impish Nature
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip
- Thunder Wave
- Stealth Rock

(Thanks Rob,Gyro Ball can be used over Thunder Wave with a relaxed nature and 0 Spe IVs.It hits Greninja harder than Power Whip and can hit it for super effective damage if it uses Ice beam. However, T-Wave is a very lucrative on Ferro considering that it may crippples incoming fire types like CharizardX or Talonflame and generally disrupts the opponent.The choice comes down to personal preferences)

Relevant Calcs:
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Ferrothorn: 117-138 (33.2 - 39.2%) -- 10.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Ferrothorn: 103-122 (29.2 - 34.6%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Ferrothorn: 68-82 (19.3 - 23.2%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Ferrothorn: 312-374 (88.6 - 106.2%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
(I think HP Fire is common enough to be considered as "relevant".I am really afraid of it)

In return:
4 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 171-202 (59.7 - 70.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (assuming Ice or Dark Typing)
0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 169-201 (59 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (assuming Dark Typing)

 

[rob.]

V_Cliff your Ferrothorn set counters the Greninja set posted on the OP there's no need to worry about HP Fire. You should also use Gyro Ball over Power Whip since you have 0 speed ivs and it's way more useful than Power Whip this gen.

 

[MikeDawg]

I feel like countering one set is unproductive.

There are zero instances in which you will only have to worry about countering one set.

It would be much more helpful to newer players (and me) to focus discussion around the entire pokemon

 

[TaBuu]

I feel like countering one set is unproductive.

There are zero instances in which you will only have to worry about countering one set.

It would be much more helpful to newer players (and me) to focus discussion around the entire pokemon

That was the original outline and process that I had laid out in Round 1. However, after a discussion with an OU mod, I've decided that it would be best to follow the previous format of the Victim of the week of last generation.

 

[MikeDawg]

That was the original outline and process that I had laid out in Round 1. However, after a discussion with an OU mod, I've decided that it would be best to follow the previous format of the Victim of the week of last generation.

Would you be willing to elaborate as to why? Not as a challenge, but instead as a means by which to help focus discussion?

If it's simply for precedent's sake, I think that it's dumb when analyzing the whole mon is far more helpful to readers

 

[TaBuu]

Would you be willing to elaborate as to why? Not as a challenge, but instead as a means by which to help focus discussion?

If it's simply for precedent's sake, I think that it's dumb when analyzing the whole mon is far more helpful to readers

-----------------------
I agree with you on the point that when discussing Pokemon checks and counters, the entirety of the Pokemon must be taken into account. With that in mind, that's how I started the thread.
However, I began to realize that with nominations coming into play, certain Pokemon would be extremely difficult to nominate and categorize. For example, things like Greninja and Aegislash have very few consistent counters as with a single moveslot change up, counters cease to be counters and become checks instead.
This post was what got me to ask the former owner of the V.o.W last generation and ultimately led me to change the format of the project.
Ultimately, this thread focuses more on handling specific, common, variants rather than the entire Pokemon not only due to the nomination aspect but also the fact that new players may find themselves confused on whether a Pokemon is really a check or counter to the Victim of the Week, because as we know, many Pokemon are capable of handling counters within a whim of a moveset change.

However, I will not completely ignore your post/suggestion and will continue to discuss with higher-up members. The format will more than likely be revolved around the concept of checking/countering a specific variant but idea of discussing the entirety of the Pokemon itself will be included in some shape or form.

 

[MikeDawg]

-----------------------
I agree with you on the point that when discussing Pokemon checks and counters, the entirety of the Pokemon must be taken into account. With that in mind, that's how I started the thread.
However, I began to realize that with nominations coming into play, certain Pokemon would be extremely difficult to nominate and categorize. For example, things like Greninja and Aegislash have very few consistent counters as with a single moveslot change up, counters cease to be counters and become checks instead.
This post was what got me to ask the former owner of the V.o.W last generation and ultimately led me to change the format of the project.
Ultimately, this thread focuses more on handling specific, common, variants rather than the entire Pokemon not only due to the nomination aspect but also the fact that new players may find themselves confused on whether a Pokemon is really a check or counter to the Victim of the Week, because as we know, many Pokemon are capable of handling counters within a whim of a moveset change.

However, I will not completely ignore your post/suggestion and will continue to discuss with higher-up members. The format will more than likely be revolved around the concept of checking/countering a specific variant but idea of discussing the entirety of the Pokemon itself will be included in some shape or form.

I can see that.

Perhaps, to avoid the endless "but what if blissey runs hp flying? Then good luck, breloom!" discussion, the focus can be placed around not just one set but multiple common sets.

For something like aegislash for example, the op could be like "here's common aegislash variants. Please keep discussion focused around these and avoid uncommon gimmicks:"

And then post the swords dance, pivot, and sub toxic sets. That way, it could be more of a discussion on practically dealing with aegislash as a whole without devlolving into obscure semantics

Again, just suggestions :)

 

[The TurtleLord]

Pokemon: Suicune
Check or counter: counter

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Rest
- Calm Mind
- Sleep Talk
Suicune doesnt take much damage and can set up calm mind on greninja
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 130-153 (32.1 - 37.8%) -- 0.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery