Other OU Playstyle of the Week - Balance

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OU Playstyles

Shamelessly stolen OP from LilOuOn

Welcome to the OU discussion of the different playstyles! The main purpose of this thread is to choose a playstyle every week (I'll choose it) and you, (yes, you), are going to be able to comment, give your opinion and suggest pokemons that should be considered when making a team around the style [posting teams is also allowed, just keep in mind that this is not the RMT forums, so if you want to post a team try to make it short and use sprites of pokes, explain how does the team work and post replays if possible]. Obviously, your comments must have connection with the chosen style, as well as solid arguments of why your comment(s) are valid. With this, newer players can decide what playstyle they like most and, of course, more experienced players can also expand their knowledge. Remember to be friendly with other people; if you disagree with someone's opinion don't slam with an aggressive response, just let everyone know what you think in a kind way. The links to discussions of each playstyle will be posted in the OP so everyone can read it at anytime!

Don't be afraid of posting! If you have a great offense, stall, etc team, just think about what to say and go for it! Don't forget that participating in this kind of threads gives you opportunity to earn that awesome Community Contributor badge! Be careful of what do you post! Quality posts will be rewarded, but mediocre comments will be deleted. Do your best and I hope that you like to contribute this thread!


Summary of the rules (Must read):
  • Make quality posts. No one-lined posts.
  • Your comments must be about the weekly playstyle chosen.
  • No gimmicks. If you decided to post a team (or pokemon) don't suggest using pursuit Tauros to trap Latias and Latios while there is an overall better option named Tyranitar or Bisharp.
  • Comment how the chosen style affects the current metagame and how it fairs in it.
  • Support your team's posts with replays if possible. Explanation of them are a must.
  • If you are comfortable, feel free to post one of your own teams and explain the process of making the team.
  • Having a wide point of view is needed. Don't post that stall sucks because you always lose to it.
  • Your new ideas must have strong arguments of why them should be considered.
  • This one is important: We don't want this to become a debate of: "this metagame is stale and has no diversity due to X Pokemon/Playstyle". I will delete and those posts. This thread is here to make a discussion about the different playstyles, not to discharge all your hate against weather. Please, incoherent posts will be deleted and possibly penalized, so think about what are you going to write.
  • For reference see the past OU Playstyles projects to guide you on what to discuss.
Past discussions:




This week were looking at Balance. Despite being overshadowed by Hyper Offense and Stall, balance is still a very good playstyle when used correctly. Balance tends to be a lot bulkier and considerably slower but with enough offensive presence to still pose a threat to stall teams. However, good balance teams are rarer and more difficult to build in the current meta. How have you made good balance teams? What pokemon do you tend to use? Staples to the playstyle? Any frameworks you use? What does this playstyle struggle against? What does it do well against?
 
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I play a balanced offense team centered around good ole wobbuffet and his partners in crime chansey and ttar. The rest of my team is built around taking advantage of the free turns wobb creates and chansey's wish passes. With that in mind, I made my team rather bulky. The team is by no means perfect, it gets hit hard by dangerous setup sweepers like mega pinsir and mega mawile, but with smart play wobbuffet works great at removing key threats, and the rest of my team can either roll past frailer offensive teams or gradually wear down stall teams with support from chansey.

Oh no it's (Wobbuffet) @ Leftovers
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 Def / 248 SDef / 8 HP
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tickle
- Mirror Coat
- Counter
- Encore

Wobbuffet. Traps wall, traps offensive mons, traps defensive mons. Encore locks them into whatever, tickle sets them up for a pursuit trap, and counter or mirror coat discourage any attempt to hit him.

Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heal Bell
- Wish
- Thunder Wave
- Seismic Toss

Her job is to keep everyone healthy and spread para when she can. S-toss also deals good damage to frailer offensive mons like thundy.

Tyranitar @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Taunt

Can either pursuit trap the enemy, or predict the swap in and either cripple it with taunt or hit it hard with crunch.

Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Mach Punch
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch

Assault vest conkeldurr serves both as a status absorber for mons locked into WoW by wobb and/or as a priority revenge killer.

Landorus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
Timid Nature
- Earth Power
- Gravity
- Psychic
- Focus Blast

Forces a lot of switches, giving it a chance to setup gravity to force even more switches. The closest thing this team has to a "setup sweeper".

Mandibuzz (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Roost
- Taunt
- Block
- Foul Play

Mostly here as a breloom and megapinsir check. Can also block walls and taunt them, leaving them ripe for wobb to trap. Pretty cool against stall and offense alike.


I actually have no clue how to post sprites, sry.

A very good game of this team in action.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-117009857
 
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I'm by no means an experienced battler but thought I'd try to contribute here.

From my attempts at constructing balanced teams, I can say that my usual framework is to have a 3/3 split of offensive/defensive Mons. This is not a fixed number: 4/6 can work just as well. Besides, some Mons aren't strictly classified as "offensive" or "defensive", for example my favourite Mega to use on these teams- Bulky Charizard X.

Charizard(M) @ Charizardite-X
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252HP/4Atk/252SDef
Careful Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Dragon Tail
- Roost
- Flare Blitz/Fire Blast

Bulky C-X feels right at home in a balanced team. Despite using a supportive move and a recovery move, as well as investing EVs in bulk, Tough Claws allows Charizard-X to remain offensively threatening.

Most high level players have probably seen this set in action. As a summary, will-o-wisp neuters all physical attackers, while dealing substantial chip damage to special attackers. Dragon Tail hits hard with STAB and Tough Claws, allowing Charizard-X to rack up lots of damage if Stealth rock/spikes are present. Roost is invaluable as recovery. Flare Blitz allows for a powerful STAB move to OHKO a plethora of steel types, however if recoil isn't desirable, Fire Blast can be considered. Fire Blast may seem like an odd option to place on a set with -SpA nature, but it serves its purpose well enough: OHKOing Scizor and having a 50% chance to OHKO 252hp mega mawile.

Survivability is key to this set. If you can stay on the field as long as possible, the eventual damage from burn, dragon tail and any entry hazards you may have on the field.

Anti-fairy support is recommended for this set. You have no way of getting past the likes of Sylveon. Bulky choice band scizor can be considered as a partner for Char-X, since its Bullet Punch will quickly smash any fairies in your way, while having decent defensive synergy with Char-X.
 
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I'm by no means an experienced battler but thought I'd try to contribute here.

From my attempts at constructing balanced teams, I can say that my usual framework is to have a 3/3 split of offensive/defensive Mons. This is not a fixed number: 4/6 can work just as well. Besides, some Mons aren't strictly classified as "offensive" or "defensive", for example my favourite Mega to use on these teams- Bulky Charizard X.

Charizard(M) @ Charizardite-X
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252HP/4Atk/252SDef
Careful Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Dragon Tail
- Roost
- Fire Blast

Bulky C-X feels right at home in a balanced team. Despite using a supportive move and a recovery move, as well as investing EVs in bulk, Tough Claws allows Charizard-X to remain offensively threatening.

Most high level players have probably seen this set in action. As a summary, will-o-wisp neuters all physical attackers, while dealing substantial chip damage to special attackers. Dragon Tail hits hard with STAB and Tough Claws, allowing Charizard-X to rack up lots of damage if Stealth rock/spikes are present. Roost is invaluable as recovery. Fire Blast may seem like an odd option to place on a set with -SpA nature, but it serves its purpose well enough: OHKOing Scizor and having a 50% chance to OHKO 252hp mega mawile.

Survivability is key to this set. If you can stay on the field as long as possible, the eventual damage from burn, dragon tail and any entry hazards you may have on the field.

Anti-fairy support is recommended for this set. You have no way of getting past the likes of Sylveon. Bulky choice band scizor can be considered as a partner for Char-X, since its Bullet Punch will quickly smash any fairies in your way, while having decent defensive synergy with Char-X.
Flare Blitz can OHKO both Scizor and Mawile 100% of the time, while being a whole lot more useful than Fire Blast in terms of damage output and accuracy.
 
Flare Blitz can OHKO both Scizor and Mawile 100% of the time, while being a whole lot more useful than Fire Blast in terms of damage output and accuracy.
Forgot to mention why I didn't pick Flare Blitz (thanks for the reminder).

The way I see it, Charizard-x aims to survive as long as possible and deal a lot of residual damage. Therefore I loathe to use recoil moves on him since it can really compromise his longevity, which defeats the purpose of the set in my opinion.
 
Forgot to mention why I didn't pick Flare Blitz (thanks for the reminder).

The way I see it, Charizard-x aims to survive as long as possible and deal a lot of residual damage. Therefore I loathe to use recoil moves on him since it can really compromise his longevity, which defeats the purpose of the set in my opinion.
If you run a reasonable amount of HP the impact of recoil damage isn't too bad. Honestly, I think the fact that it actually has an offensive presence with flare blitz far outweighs the negatives of recoil damage. The main reason defensive charizard is used on defensively minded balance and stall teams is because it has an offensive presence, as otherwise, it really isn't that extraordinary.
 
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Hello there, one pokemon that certainly needs a mention on this thread is Dragonite.


Dragonite (M) @ Weakness Policy/Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Adamant/Jolly Nature
- Fire Punch/EarthQuake
- Extreme Speed
- Outrage/Dragon Claw
- Dragon Dance

He is one of the solid OU dragons. Possessing a unique ability like multiscale, 134 base attack and 91/95/100 natural defenses wide movepool and a good 80 BP priority move makes him a solid contender for a spot in any balanced OU Team. Dragon/Flying typing is not the best but thanks to its ability and newly introduced item, weakness policy, abuses his abililty like anything and is hard to OHKO using unboosted and nonSTABed super effective moves. Lum berry is not used like before but is still a good item to keep on Dnite, giving it one free life. Its a good late game cleaner, revenge killer or set-up sweeper(it might be hard to pull it off,but still) and has all the balance it needs.

Which moves you keep on Dragonite is totally upto you and what your team needs. Dragon Claw or Outrage is the main stab and when backed up by Fire punch or Earthquake will give you a very good coverage.
EV spreads are pretty straightforward.
 
This thread gives me an opportunity to praise one of my favorite Pokes this gen, Clefable:

(insert Clefable sprite here, I'm too retarded)

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard/Unaware

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature

- Moonblast
- Flamethrower
- Calm Mind
- Soft-Boiled

If Pokémon was martial arts, this thing right here would be a boxer: Nothing too fancy, but gets the job done on defense just as well as on offense and should not be underestimated. Even though its base stats are pretty underwhelming, this is a case of a Pokémon being more than the sum of its stats. Despite having a fantastic movepool that lets it run all kinds of sets from cleric to AV all-out-attacker to self-sustained setup-sweeper, this is the set that fits best on Balance imo.
Clefable has only two weaknesses, Steel and Poison, which are both pretty uncommon attacking types. It also has only 3 resistances, only one of which (Fighting) is really useful. The other two (Bug and Dark) are niche attacking types, but taking less damage from a Knock Off or a U-Turn is always appreciated, even though you should try not to take a Knock Off if possible.
Clefable has access to two great abilities, Unaware and Magic Guard, both of which are totally viable. I mostly use Magic Guard to ensure that my Clef comes in undamaged by hazards, and if you predict well you can switch it into a WoW or a Toxic, ideally by something you force out so that you can get a free Calm Mind in. After just one Calm Mind, Clefables Defenses are more than respectable if invested fully in physical, and +1 STAB Moonblast coming off 95 base SpA is nothing to scoff at either. Flamethrower is added to hit Steel types that resist Moonblast and allows you to fish for burns on the switch before being forced out. Add reliable instant recovery in Soft-Boiled, and you have a very dangerous all-round Pokémon that can take hits and set up on a lot of stuff, especially Walls. The Blobs usually can't do anything to it, so those are always a great opportunity to switch in and maybe tank a Toxic as well. Due to Magic Guard, Clefable can come in no matter how many hazards are down, while Unaware helps it put a brake on setup sweepers that threaten to run away, provided you have an attacking move for them.
Clefable's downside is its low speed, so maybe Sticky Web support might be helpful (does anybody have experiences here?), but there are usually plenty of opportunities to bring Clefable in without taking damage, whether it is on a status move, a wall or against a predicted Dragon-type move. It should also be noted that many of the Steel types that could counter Clefable are slower and OHKO'd by Flamethrower.

Counters to Clefable are basically any Steel type that outspeeds it (Bisharp and Excadrill come to mind, although both should be VERY careful about switching into Flamethrower), and especially Heatran since it's immune to Flamethrower and can wall Clefable all day long, even though the Specially defensive set can't really to anything to Clef either. Powerful special moves are also a problem before you get a Calm Mind in, and Clefables bulk in general, even though very solid, should not be overestimated.

I really like using Clefable since it requires basically no support and is completely self-sustained. It can heal itself, takes no damage from status and hazards (if Magic Guard) and can set up and even sweep from time to time, all in one Poke with manageable weaknesses. Like I said in the viability thread, it's either a wall with great offensive presence or a setup sweeper with ridicolous bulk. Both sounds good for a balance team to me.
 
I haven't played much balance this gen (who has lol), but this has been a pretty successful set.


Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 44 Spd / 212 Def
Bold Nature
- Pain Split
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp

While Rotom-W may seem like a forgotten relic from the beginning of the generation, it still has all the right tools to fit on to balance team quite comfortably. Firstly, it's great defensive typing, when combined with Levitate, allows it to check/counter a lot of the metagames top threats, such as Talonflame, Mega Pinsir, non-Freeze Dry Mamoswine, etc. It's general bulk also allows it to take neutral hits quite well and retaliate back with a Will-O-Wisp, crippling a threat for the rest of the match. Volt Switch is a also an amazing move for this guy, allowing him to easily gain momentum for his team. Finally, Rotom-W doesn't lack offensive an offensive presence, as even an uninvested Hydro Pump still does quite a lot coming from base 105 Special Attack. Teammates include Pokemon who can get up momentum with U-Turn and Volt Switch, and those who hate Flying-types. Scizor is a great example, as it despises Talonflame and has U-Turn to get up momentum quite quickly. It also has access to Defog, allowing it to clear hazards and makes sure teammates don't get continually work down by hazards. U-Turn Landorus/Landorus-T also work well, providing a back-up physical wall who can also set up Stealth Rock for the team. Finally, in terms of walls, Ferrothorn and Mega Venusaur both hate the previously mentioned Flying-type spam (Or, in Ferrothron's case, the Flare Blitz's that come with it), so they tend to make great partners.
 

Dr Ciel

Banned deucer.

Mandibuzz (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 248 HP / 180 Def / 24 SDef / 56 Spd
Impish Nature
- Defog / Toxic / Knock Off
- Taunt / Whirlwind
- Foul Play
- Roost

When it comes to fitting on balanced teams, our good friend Mandibuzz is almost second to none. With a movepool consisting of excellent support moves, most notably, Defog & Taunt along with solid natural bulk make Mandibuzz a prime option for balanced teams. Naturally, Mandibuzz's main selling point is Foul Play, which allows it to handle a wide variety of attackers in the heavily Physical meta, including Charizard-X, Dragonite, Gyarados (Both regular & Mega), Talonflame, & a whole bunch more. Knock Off is a fantastic option vs. Stall teams as it cripples key Pokémon, allowing the rest of the team to break through it that much more easily. Taunt also helps vs. Stall teams by preventing Mandibuzz from being hit by crippling status moves & preventing the opponent from Defogging your hazards themselves. Again, the solid natural bulk of 110 / 105 / 95 is absolutely fantastic, being able to take mainly Physical hits while also taking hits somewhat well from the Special side of the spectrum. Mandibuzz has quite a few solid teammate options depending on the kind of team. Offensive teammates include Talonflame, Volcarona, & both forms of Charizard, all of whom love Stealth Rock being off the field so they can rip through the opposing team. For defensive teammates, Bliseey, Mega Venusaur, & Ferrothorn are prime candidates for the job as Mandibuzz is weak to common strong special attackers.
 
Balance, unless built incredibly well, always strikes me as a flawed style. Where most styles dedicate at least five pokemon towards a common goal (Generally broadly attack or defend, or perhaps tank), Balance only dedicates three or four to a single goal. The balance I think of is the ones with a three man defensive core and a three man offensive set, generally a sweeper, cleaner and tank. However, three defensive mons simply is NOT enough anymore. Sure, VenuTran can cut a lot of the metagame... add Quag, chansey or skarm and you have a pretty solid start. However, now you run into the issue stall has of getting that standard core ripped to shit. And with less ability to play defensively against these targets, you're forced to check them... aka allowing something to absolutely rupture your defensive core every time it comes in.

However, I have seen balanced teams that play a very, very smart style. Balanced seems to have the most maneuverability within the teambuilding process, probably because no one has found the optimal style to it yet. I prefer to create a three man defensive core first and then create one attacker per defensive mon that shares near perfect synergy... For example, if I wanted to run Chesnaught in my defensive core (forgoing VenuMega), I'd probably run Thundurus-I as my corresponding attacker. Flying resist on Thundy, Rock resist on Chesnaught gives me enough keys to find switches between the two.

In my mind, the good balanced teams need ways to make the team of Defensive three-four and offensive two-three move seamlessly. Without this, you leave balance as just two units and an easy team to beat. Which is why, to be honest, balance is the least rewarding style to build at an amateur level. Of course, at the highest level, balanced is a terrifying force on paper. In practice, I've yet to see any teams I'm truly scared of, outside of perhaps Masterclass' team.
 

Tornadus-Therian (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 128 HP / 160 SAtk / 4 SDef / 216 Spd
Timid Nature
- U-turn
- Hurricane
- Knock Off
- Focus Blast

big bird is pretty nifty for a lot of balanced teams. landorus is often a huge threat to more bulkier balanced teams as they often don't pack a chansey like stall which is a pretty hard check (yes knock off and cm can possibly beat it, but it still fares well) and tornadus-t is a great answer to landorus. not only landorus, but tornadus is just a huge annoyance in general as nothing can KO it. it also helps a ton vs keldeo, 4 atks deo-s, etc. knock off is just such a fantastic move that it's great vs any kind of matchup. you can normally get at least a 1 for 1 vs Any Team with this dude. i think the ev's are just for outspeeding scarftar and ohko'ing keldeo.
 
Can somebody please define how Balance works out? What's the style's winning condition? How does it differentiate itself from Volt-turn, HO, Bulky Offense, and Stall? Cause in my understanding, Balance is a style that incorporates all of the aforementioned strategies' tactics and meshes them up in a synergistic manner that is capable of highlighting each used strategies' strengths. But imo that definition is too abstract to be useable.
 
@ above posts, you make balance seem too sticky note-esque. rather, 3 "sticky notes" of offensive mons and 3 "sticky notes" of defensive mons just slapped together and call it a day. balance is just the use of more bulkier pokemon which can also check opposing threats while still providing some offensive prowess.

the one unique thing above balance is that it /CANNOT/ have any redundancy or else i consider it a flawed build. unlike stall where you can afford redundancy due to other defensive pokemon to back you up, (an example of this is bulky zard-x + chansey where they both check zard-y but it's stall so it's acceptable) balance attempts to fit offensive attacks into the pattern. all the pokemon on balance are typically 'bulky' or at least can check stuff without bulk (e.g. excadrill in sand to spin [thundurus, latios, zards]). on the contrary, offense thrives on redundancy; you want pokemon to have similar counters to break down these counters and eventually sweep with a given pokemon. this is where the divide between the 3 playstyles is.
 
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I'll contribute by posting a set of Clefable:

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 12 Spd
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Protect
- Wish
- Moonblast

Clefable is an amazing Pokemon this generation. Unaware > Magic Guard, as it says fuck you to set up sweepers and a lot of people expect Magic Guard Clefable for whatever reason, you've just gotta be sure to keep Stealth Rock off the field for the surprise. I used this set and was setting up a Calm Mind when they brought in Talonflame hoping to force me out, but they didn't realize I was Unaware. They proceeded to get to +6 Attack while I was at +4 SpA, then they used Flare Blitz, imagine their surprise when they didn't instantly OHKO me! That shows the surprise factor. Calm Mind bolsters Clefable's SpA and SpD to high levels, I prefer WishTect > Moonlight because a.) fuck sand and b.) If they see me using WishTect, they might try to set up on 'Protect turns', where I can just Calm Mand and c.) Wish can heal up some of your teammates as a last huzzah or just if you need to. Moonblast is the STAB, a great one at that! This Pokemon brings alot of Defensive and Offensive contribution to a team, and is a very reliable and unpredictable Pokemon all around!
 
One major component of the balance play style is team-building. The team must contain Pokemon with an assortment of skills that includes: offensive ability, defensive capability, utility, and the ability to impose pressure. In other words the Pokemon used on the team must be able to perform their roles well and at the same time are able support their teammates. Whether that's bolstering their teammates strengths or being able to deal with Pokemon that may be problematic. Every Pokemon is set-up in a way that would allow one or two teammates a clean sweep. That's where another huge component of the balanced play-style comes in. And that's strategy. The basic idea of the balanced style is to well ... have a balance. That means you want to stack residual damage, you want offensive pressure, you want power, speed, and most importantly bulk. You can't have too much of one thing or you may lose out to other playstyles. Too much bulk and stall halts your attack, too much offense and HO tears you apart. Building a good balanced team is very difficult because it takes a lot of testing and tweaking in order to incorporate the things I mentioned and more. I agree with what Dice said above. The balanced playstyle is more than just 3 offensive pokemon and 3 defensive pokemon, that's more of an outline for beginners.
 
PenguinKnight Bulky offense is a subset of balanced much like hyper offense is a subset of offense. Bulky offensive teams are indeed usually balanced, however, volt-turn teams are also frequently balanced (at least the ones I run, if you have a volt-turn team without at least one slow defensive turner, ur doin it wrong imo), and are very rarely bulky, instead taking advantage of switch priority to get their walls in and out safely.
 
I reached #2 on the ladder with a traditonal balanced team a few months ago when i had more time to play so I think I can say a few things on this.
There are 4 major buckets of teams: defensive (ex. stall), balanced (ex. bulky offense), offensive (ex. weather offense), and gimmick (ex. baton pass). every team falls underneath one of these 4 buckets. Bulky offense if you look at the average stats of the pokemon team will tend to have higher HP and higher attack. A more traditional balanced team would have a more even spread of stats. Balanced teams usually have the same variety of defensive type coverage defensive teams have, with very few defensive moves. In battle their kills are generally more equally distributed. With offensive teams, you'll often see one pokemon taking out multiple ones in quick succession.

To further illustrate the differences lets use charizardX
With multiple defensive moves like wow and roost on the same set, you create a defensive pokemon.
With 4 offensive moves, or 3 offensive moves and 1 boosting, you create an offensive one.
With 3offenive moves and 1 defensive move like wow but no roost, you can create a balanced one.
The balanced charizard can threaten more pokemon than both the offensive or defensive one, but doesn't have the staying power or sweeping power of the other 2.

anyway...

The key to a good balanced team in my opinion is to ensure that each one of your pokemon is very difficult to setup on using speed, power, or status. If one of your pokemon can be setup on, you'll need a pokemon that acts as a catchall for the type of pokemon setuping up on yours.
One of the major weaknesses of traditional balance are choice items. Your middle of the road speed or defense often times make it difficult to deal with choice items, and this is one of the weaknesses bulky offense teams try to offset. It's also why wobbuffet is so amazing for balanced teams.
Traditional balanced playstyles have a lot of advantages too. They don't require setup or specific conditions. Meaning usually, they're the ones firing away first. they're versatile and can handle weird one off pokemon quite well, unlike stall where sometimes it just dies to a single weird pokemon.
 

Ash Borer

I've heard they're short of room in hell
I've always had the issue with balance where I run a proficient stall core and some offensive powers but the divide vetween the two is so great ill play the match like hyper offense with 3 pokes early and stall with 3 late. How do you guys get around this issue?
 
I've always had the issue with balance where I run a proficient stall core and some offensive powers but the divide vetween the two is so great ill play the match like hyper offense with 3 pokes early and stall with 3 late. How do you guys get around this issue?
Neato already mentioned it, when playing balance you cant think like a stall player when choosing your defensive core. Stall teams dont realy care what switches into them as they should have a solid answer to everything that might come in. With balance thats impossible, there will be lots of things that your defensive core cant handle and where you have to rely on more or less solid checks or even revengekilling. Because of that its important to choose a core that doesnt give free switch ins.

Even if something can force out one of your defensive mons, your mon should be able to dmg it significantly when it comes in. I am playing balance only (1800+) and I noticed that problem when I tried to build a team around Skarm/Chans. Both of them are incredibly good at walling certain things but since they dont do much dmg, I always had the problem that dangerous offensive mons got a free entry and then the pressure was on me to stop them somehow, usually with some kind of check that only worked once or twice, but the offensive mon could come in for free everytime I brought Chansey. Mons like Mandi, Zapdos, Venu, Clefable, Sylveon etc are better suited for balanced teams as they can dish out decent dmg as well, denying free switch in opportunitys as much as possible.

For the same reason one has to be very careful when using choiced mons on balanced teams.
 
I'll contribute by posting a set of Clefable:

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 12 Spd
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Protect
- Wish
- Moonblast

Clefable is an amazing Pokemon this generation. Unaware > Magic Guard, as it says fuck you to set up sweepers and a lot of people expect Magic Guard Clefable for whatever reason, you've just gotta be sure to keep Stealth Rock off the field for the surprise. I used this set and was setting up a Calm Mind when they brought in Talonflame hoping to force me out, but they didn't realize I was Unaware. They proceeded to get to +6 Attack while I was at +4 SpA, then they used Flare Blitz, imagine their surprise when they didn't instantly OHKO me! That shows the surprise factor. Calm Mind bolsters Clefable's SpA and SpD to high levels, I prefer WishTect > Moonlight because a.) fuck sand and b.) If they see me using WishTect, they might try to set up on 'Protect turns', where I can just Calm Mand and c.) Wish can heal up some of your teammates as a last huzzah or just if you need to. Moonblast is the STAB, a great one at that! This Pokemon brings alot of Defensive and Offensive contribution to a team, and is a very reliable and unpredictable Pokemon all around!
lack of heal bell is just really unappealing :X u can just be toxic'd and you're pretty much dead meh

moonlight sucks but moonlight + heal bell > wishtect IMO just because losing to status with a clefable of all mons just blows
 

Halcyon.

@Choice Specs
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
lack of heal bell is just really unappealing :X u can just be toxic'd and you're pretty much dead meh

moonlight sucks but moonlight + heal bell > wishtect IMO just because losing to status with a clefable of all mons just blows
Yeah if you're going to run WishTect on Clefable, then use it over Calm Mind. Otherwise you're way too easy to stop with status moves. But for the most part Moonlight is better. Although I think Magic Guard with Moonblast / Calm Mind / Softboiled / Flamethrower or Stored Power is a set a lot of people run on balance teams during tour (I don't really use balance/suck at balance atm so idk :x).
 
I'll second what others pointed out earlier : a balance team needs flexibility. And that might be the only goal one should aim to fulfill while building a balanced team.

Basically, you want most of your pokemons to be able to always act both offensively AND defensively.
The synergy of the defensive core should be almost flawless, this gives them staying power. But shouldn't give them "setup bait" power, at no cost.
This can be done in a wide variety of forms :
- If a defensive pokemon can U-Turn or VoltSwitch, then it has an offensive potential in the sense that it grabs momentum.
- Perish Song is great, because it prevents setup AND force switches. Good paired with fast offensive pokemons or U-Turners with type synergy with the Perish Song user, because this minicore has the upper hand at least for 2 turns.
- If it carries TW, it has an offensive potential since that means your slower offensive pokemons will be able to act first later on.
- An offensive pokemon with a lot of usefull immunities/resistances (gengar), is also very defensive if used correctly.

A pokemon like Mandibuzz, as presented earlier in the topic, is a perfect illustration of an awesome balance team member for a large amount of reasons :
- It has awesome physical bulk AND very good special bulk.
So it can be used as a backup special spounge to cover lacks of type synergy within your core.
- It has staying power in Roost
- It can use Taunt, Defog or Whirlwind to remove hazards or prevent setups
- And the most important thing : it has Foul Play, so it can spounge physical hits AND kill physical attackers
It is both extremely efficient in offense and defense.
You can actually consider it to be a physical sweeper somehow, since when it comes it's on physical sweepers and it nails most of them. That is, when you call it for its job, it is perfectly capable of killing.
If the opponent switches on a defensive pokemon, Mandibuzz can Taunt/Roost/Defog/Toxic to give you the advantage. If it switches on a special attacker, it has enough bulk to endure a hit, it can Taunt to prevent setup, roost to scout, or switch to a counter (easy to find given its weaknesses).

As a comparison Skarmory is less suited to balance teams, since it can't actually kill those he checks as easily as Mandibuzz.
He can't take special attacks as easily and he has less speed (can't Taunt as effectively).
However, on a pure physically defensive analysis, he can be considered better -> fits more on hyper offensive or defensive teams where pokemons are more one-sided.

Basically, if your "answer" can't assure you the upper hand in the current meta - permanent not a temporary check, then it's not really a good answer (for balance).
I consider that a direct switch to a teammate with great synergy is a good answer and can give the upper hand.

So the first step in building such a team appears to me as follow : a great defensive core.
Everything then adds up to it, to provide as much tools and synergy as possible. But it almost never starts with the offensive side as a basis.
Yet, the defensive core doesn't need to be perfectly self-sufficient.
But once you've built it, you should already have answers for almost every common OU threat.
Then, since there will always be holes, you should have at least checks to these other threats that functions as double-answers : usually one being more defensive, the other more offensive.

The offensive core, say a special sweeper, a physical sweeper and a wallbreaker (mixed or setup, very good coverage), usually consists of few "very good" candidates because of the synergy they have to provide with the defensive core. To alleviate their struggle dealing with common stall staples (gliscor, ferrothorn, chansey, skarmory, etc.), the defensive core should also be able to take care of at least 2 of them in my opinion. This way, against stall teams, since your defensive core is likely to have less endurance, it is able to cripple the opponent. And when you call for your offensive pokemons, you slowly add up damage to at least 2 of the opponent's pokemons, then you can capitalize on that to break through. It won't cut it though against extremely defensive teams, against which you stand almost no chance. I've always had far better results with balanced teams against HO than against stall.
On balanced teams, even your offensive pokemons usually are not almighty powerhouses because of the defensive side they need to provide. They just need to be efficient every time they come in, so an easy candidates is Greninja for instance : fast, immediate power, great coverage = fair chance to perform a -50% health every time you click. Plus, Protean can give welcomed resistances at times. Bisharp/Scizor are great priority users with utility (KnockOff, UTurn) and power. I tend to prefer Bisharp's coverage and speed though. Steel is a great defensive typing, and they muscle through most fairies - usually hard to beat with defensive pokemons since they are quite defensive as well : clerics, recovery, status inducing moves, boosting moves, etc.

The defensive core should have answers to Baton Pass teams, setup sweepers, not being overly weak to hazards nor status.
It should have means to slowly weaken the opponent : status, hazards, voltswitch/uturn, spammable attacks with good coverage (not necessarily strong power), etc. - special mention for lava plume, scald, gigadrain , this kind of things.
Therefore, certain moves are very useful for balanced teams : Roar, Taunt, SR, Spin, recovery, etc.
Other things are not really required : Boosting moves, Choice items, etc.
Concerning choiced items, as mentionned earlier in the topic, it's hard to put on balance since it gives the upper hand to the opponent. You can't act freely and use your versatility.
Priority is great on balance for that reason. It might be better to forego a fast sweeper with few defensive potential, for a slower one with priority and more defensive presence.

Balance is appealing in the sense that, if well built, it is often easier to change your gameplan and adapt during a battle.
You are solid enough to endure an unexpected incisive onslaught, while still retaining enough presence and living power to answer strongly next time.
You fail once, but don't lose. If you battle for some time and realise that your mistakes didn't prevent you from finding other solutions (not overly relying on XX% accuracy moves, or crits), then you might have a good balanced team.
Of course if you make a big mistake against a clever opponent, you're gonna loose anyway. But fate is not as easily settled as on HO in my opinion.
You shouldn't be stuck easily (and too soon) in a "i'm gonna just loose this pok" situation, since every pok fulfills multiple tasks.
In HO, it might be easier to think about it this way : "i'm gonna just call crusher n°2, crusher n°1 made holes the opponent won't have time to fill". With balance, you simply cannot.

Of course, this is my personal way of seeing balance. Others might see it in a more offensive way !
 
Sometimes balanced teams lack the sheer power needed to break through stall so I run this guy on many of my balance teams in order to easily remove walls and support my team.


Gothitelle @ Choice Scarf
EVs: 252 S Atk/ 252 Spd / 4 HP
Timid Nature
-Psychic
-Trick
-Thunderbolt
-Energy Ball/Shadow Ball

This guy can effectively shut down a good half of a stall team by itself. It traps and KOs Skarmory, Quagsire, Mega Venusaur, and can trick the Pink Blobs a fashionable scarf. This allows balance teams to be more balanced (lol). In general, Dragon Dancers love this guy as it removes stall's two main physical walls in Skarmory and Quagsire, as well as turning Blissey into complete setup bait.
 
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For the record, a chansey with a scarf is nowhere near as useless as one might think it is. It actually still functions relatively well as a bulky defensive pivot by coming in, soaking the hit, using wish, and swapping out. A scarfed chansey is definitely a crippled one, but it's not entirely worthless.
 
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