Darmanitan [QC: 2/3]

[TheManlyLadybug]

But why would you ever use Zen Mode? It's slow, has a shitty defensive typing, and will probably get OHKO'd since you need to be at <50%HP to even activate it. Same goes for Sleep Talk; Darmanitan's horrendous 55 / 55 defences probably won't even let him survive neutral hits.
Bulk Up might be usable due to all the switches it forces, but things like Greninja and Latios still outspeed and OHKO, and Darm is probably too frail to set up.

True, your points are valid.


For Team Options on the All-Out Attacker, mention Sticky Web support from Shuckle, Galvantula, and Smeargle.

 

[Jukain]

get rid of eq from any main set, it's not really useful...scarf superpower does ~80% to max hp tran and lo kills ~80% of the time. it could theoretically be useful on lo to circumvent ks from aegis, but -2 averages to like 90% from blitz so it still doesn't matter. moves/oo is fine idc.

update with 2/3 qc approved, that was already done.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

ColtCababa how's progress on this?

 

[Martin]

Something that bugs me is this: "U-Turn may be suggestive if holding Choice Band". If both sets have U-Turn unslashed, why are you even saying this? It suggests that you are choiced, yes, but that could let you bluff Choice Scarf, which is far more likely when you force a switch. I think if you were to say that it'd be a little more clear.

 

[BurningMan]

Is this thing really worth using in OU?
There are so many better Pokemon as a choice scarfer that have better typings, movepools and don't suffer from massive recoil damage which is horrible when combined with an SR weakness. I see very little reason to use this when i could be using something like Scarf Exca, Diggersby, Garchomp, Heatran, Band Talonflame, Entei etc. I know this thing is really powerful, but there are simply better wallbreaker and Revengekiller that don't get walled by bulky waters of all things.

However, a Jolly nature allows Darmanitan to outspeed and revenge kill neutral-natured base 100 Speed threats at +1, such as Mega Charizard X.

252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 206-244 (69.1 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Stuff like this is why really don't think its worth using its stab is widely resistet and its coverage options aren't exactly great and easy to set-up on.

 

[Ash Borer]

well darms coverage and power are fine but its sr weak and dependency on recoil based moves is enough to make it unappealing tbh. its a fairly inconsistent choice and I wonder if its worth analysis.

 

[TheManlyLadybug]

Guys, guys. What do you mean, Darmanitan doesn't deserve an analysis? Sure, it's walled by physically bulky Water-types; big deal.

There are plenty of Pokemon that rely on recoil-based moves, such as other physical Fire-types, Deoxys-S, Talonflame, Staraptor, and physical Thundurus, and many of them are weak to Stealth Rock. Also, about 35 out of the current 139 Pokemon getting an XY OU analysis are weak to Stealth Rock. That's right, 25%. With the prevalence of Defog users, who are now very common on standard OU teams, being weak to Stealth Rock is clearly not a big deal judging from the sheer amount of Pokemon weak to Stealth Rock in the meta.

I agree with BurningMan about the Scarf set being outclassed by other Scarfers. Personally, I never really liked the Scarf set at all, for the reasons BurningMan mentioned. But the All-Out Attacker is perfectly viable, I don't understand why people are bashing it. Sure, it's walled by physically defensive Water-types; every Pokemon has their shortcomings, and there's something called 5 extra teamslots to take care of Pokemon such as Quagsire or Slowbro.

Let's see how Darmanitan matches up against the metagame.

S Rank

Aegislash
OHKOes every time, no matter the variant. Can take a hit or two as well. WIN

Mega Charizard X
OHKOes with EQ with Adamant + Life Orb. 75% chance to OHKO Bulky WoW set with Adamant CB EQ, guaranteed after Stealth Rock damage. OHKOes upon switch-in, otherwise is outsped and OHKOed. KIND OF A WIN
Deoxys-D
252+ Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 244+ Def Deoxys-D: 229-270 (75.3 - 88.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 294-346 (96.7 - 113.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
That's ridiculous!! And it can't do a damn thing in return. WIN

Deoxys-S
Darm easily OHKOes on the switch, AND ACTUALLY LIVES A PSYCHO BOOST FROM DEOXYS-S. It will die from recoil damage, though. WIN (SOMEWHAT)

Landorus-I / Thundurus-I (grouping them together so as not to say the same thing twice)
OHKOes on the switch, but is outsped and OHKOed otherwise.

A+ Rank

Azumarill
252+ Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 267-314 (66 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and 3 layers of Spikes
Does a ton of damage to Azumarill and can then switch into a check or counter such as Venusaur. KIND OF A WIN HERE
Bisharp
Barely lives Sucker Punch and OHKOes. WIN (SOMEWHAT)

Charizard Y
Darm lives a hit with a good amount of health and OHKOes. Can also take advantage of Charizard Y's Drought ability after taking it out. WIN
Garchomp
2HKOes by using U-Turn earlier in the match (and providing useful switch advantage) and finishing it off later in the match with Flare Blitz. Otherwise outsped and OHKOed. KIND OF A WIN

Greninja
Flare Blitz and U-Turn OHKO!! Otherwise outsped and OHKOed. KIND OF A WIN HERE

Gyarados (Mega)
Darm outspeeds and OHKOes. WIN

Keldeo
Darm does a ton of damage with Flare Blitz and can then switch to a counter, but Keldeo outspeeds and OHKOes IN THE MIDDLE

Mega Mawile
Darm lives a Sucker Punch and OHKOes. WIN

Mega Pinsir
Pinsir can't switch in on Darm for fear of being OHKOed, but outspeeds and OHKOes Darm. IN THE MIDDLE

Mega Scizor
Switches in freely and OHKOes. EASY WIN

(WIP will add more later)
A Rank

A- Rank

As you can see, almost nothing can switch into Darm, making it a ridiculously good wallbreaker if it gets a free switch-in.

 

[Alter]

Nobody is really debating that Darmanitan doesn't hit hard. That being said, showing a bunch of calculations of Darmanitan hitting conveniently picked threats from OU on the switch as a wallbreaker doesn't really demonstrate its viability in the metagame. Its problem is that there are so many better Pokemon to use in its position that don't have a crap typing, poor physical bulk, or have to take ridiculous amounts of recoil damage just to deal some form of damage themselves. BurningMan already outlined why it is a poor user of a Choice Scarf, so I'll touch upon the all-out attacking set. If I wanted a powerful wallbreaker, I'd be way more likely to pick something like Kyurem-B or Landorus-I. Heck, even these Pokemon have the bulk equivalent to or better than Darmanitan, as well as not having to face huge amounts of recoil. Darmanitan is severely outclassed in at least a couple of aspects for anything it tries to offer as a simple physical attacker and is an option I'd very, very rarely consider using on a serious team.

 

[trc]

yeah it was a lot better when sun was actually a prominent playstyle, but now theres things it faces direct competition not just from a power standpoint, but in terms of other important categories such as speed, priority, bulk etc.

 

[BurningMan]

Yeah the Problem of the All-Out-Attacker is mainly that it can't maim stall because every stall team can just switch in Quaq/Slowbro and its been dealt with which is kinda unacceptable for a wallbreaker, because there are other wallbreaker that can almost manhandle stall teams to the Point where the best stall can do is pivot around them and hope they wear themselve down. Darmanitan does that himself with Recoil and SR damage racking up way too fast to be threatening against stall. Like TRC said if Sun would still be viable this thing could still be good, but even Darmanitans gargantuan power can't make up for its shortcomings with his mediocre defensive typing, speed and coverage and overall lack of Utility outside of hitting really hard which isn't cuttting it anymore (it barely was last Gen imo).

 

[trc]

Based on my own experiences using this thing, my opinions on it, and others opinions considered as well, i am going to consider this rejected 1/3
the skeleton is great, but im afraid the pokemon isn't. if it is agreed for this to be rejected, then im glad it's before it was written. however, im more than capable of taking up a debate with others if you feel strong enough to post convincing arguments. burningman's points are incredibly relevant. the choice scarf set faces competition from many other choice scarf users which are either faster, bulkier, or or just better choices in general (exca, diggs, chomp). the all-out attacker set struggles against stall cause of quag, and offense because of its speed. both sets are sr weak and use a recoil move as their main stab. of course, it does have some nice advantages, but i feel that the positives outweigh the negatives on this one. sorry :[

 

[ColtCababa]

I've realized that I'm too preoccupied IRL, so I'm dropping this. Kudos to whoever picks this up.