OU Scolipede (Offensive)

[Sturdynips]

Giving this its own thread for QC to look through

QC: BKC, TRC., Ash Borer
GP: GatoDelFuego, Calm Pokemaster

Protect + 3 Attacks
########
name: Protect + 3 Attacks
move 1: Protect
move 2: Megahorn
move 3: Poison Jab / Rock Slide
move 4: Earthquake
ability: Speed Boost
item: Life Orb
evs: 68 HP / 252 Atk / 188 Spe
nature: Adamant

Moves
========

Protect is very important to allow Speed Boost to activate, allowing Scolipede to outrun Pokemon that it otherwise couldn't, such as Greninja and Alakazam. Megahorn is a very powerful STAB attack, dealing heavy damage to anything that doesn't resist it. The choice between Poison Jab and Rock Slide comes down to individual team requirements. Poison Jab provides STAB and deals with Fairies such as Azumarill, Clefable, and Sylveon, while Rock Slide targets Dragonite and Mega Charizard. It also OHKOes Mega Pinsir and Talonflame, though they must be hit as they switch in as they can bypass Scolipede's Speed boosts with their strong Flying-type priority. Finally, Earthquake is necessary to deal with Steel-types that resist Scolipede's STAB attacks, such as Heatran, Aegislash, and Excadrill. Alternatively, Aqua Tail is a viable option to hit Landorus-T super effectively but has limited use outside of this. Swords Dance can be considered in the place of Protect, but is not recommended as this Scolipede has limited setup opportunities, and Protect is nearly always too important to pass up.

Set Details
========

The given EV spread emphasizes Speed and Attack with just enough Speed to outrun maximum Speed Deoxys-D. An Adamant nature is to maximize damage output, as Scolipede can simply use Protect to gain a Speed boost on Pokemon that are faster, such as Latios. Alternatively, a spread of 24 HP / 252 Atk / 232 Spe is viable in order to keep a few points of bulk while outspeeding maximum Speed Kyurem-B.

Usage Tips
========

This set is designed to clean up offensive teams late-game. As such, it is best to preserve Scolipede as much as is prudent throughout the match, as it is easily worn down by entry hazards and Life Orb recoil. Protect is a great tool to scout for potential Choice Scarfs on opposing Pokemon. If you send Scolipede out after one of your team's Pokemon has fainted, it is often wise to use Protect unless you know Scolipede is faster than the opposing Pokemon. Remember that while this set is a sweeper, it can occasionally be effective as a lead, bluffing a Baton Pass or Spikes set. This can be especially good against fast Deoxys-D leads, which are cleanly OHKOed by Megahorn. Be aware that several offensive Pokemon will always stop Scolipede in its tracks. If your opponent has a Talonflame or Mega Pinsir, for example, Scolipede should instead be used as a speedy revenge killer during the match. By doing this, you avoid wasting Scolipede's potential, and in some cases forcing your opponent to send out Talonflame or Pinsir can be beneficial, as they can potentially take Stealth Rock damage.

Team Options
========

Scolipede greatly appreciates entry hazard support. Stealth Rock allows it to OHKO Mega Charizard Y with Poison Jab. It is also helpful to slowly wear down bulkier threats such as Rotom-W as well as greatly hinder Mega Pinsir and Talonflame. Deoxys-D is a very reliable entry hazard setter, as are Landorus-T and Tyranitar, both of which also check Talonflame and Mega Pinsir. In a similar vein, Scolipede's susceptibility to opposing entry hazards means that Rapid Spin or Defog support is wise. Latios is a decent choice as it can also threaten Pokemon which stop Scolipede, such as Skarmory, Landorus, and Hippowdon. In return, Scolipede can smash Chansey and Tyranitar. Often, however, keeping Stealth Rock on the opponent's side is important. This means Rapid Spin support is preferred. Excadrill is arguably the best Rapid Spin user in OU; Choice Scarf variants can reliably check Talonflame and Pinsir, while Air Balloon sets can support Scolipede by setting up Stealth Rock. Be aware that using Excadrill exacerbates a weakness to Landorus-T and Skarmory. Strong physical attackers are also good teammates as they can wear down opposing physical walls to better facilitate a late-game sweep for Scolipede. Mega Gyarados can defeat Rotom-W and Landorus-T.

 

[Ash Borer]

knock the speed down a bit

you can choose to outrun +spe Kyube, +spe Excadrill while getting a bit more bulk. At the fastest, beating out Kyurem-B is where you should be at which gives a couple more HP, better than none.

 

[MyNameIsVeryCreative]

SD?

 

[Aragorn the King]

SD?

It really doesn't have room.

 

[HypnoEmpire]

I looked this over and I think Rock Slide should be slashed before Poison Jab since it really doesn't hit anything in OU except Fairy Types, but what Fairy type will want to switch into Scolipede? Scolipede baits pokemon like Talonflame and Charizard to switch in, and that's when you can nail them and OHKO with Rock Slide.

 

[BKC]

yea this definitely doesn't need max speed but otherwise looks good

I trust you'll make that change so qc approved 1/3

 

[AccidentalGreed]

24 HP / 252 Atk / 232 Spe should be the spread if you plan on knocking down the Speed EVs. It outruns positive-natured variants of Kyurem-B and gives Scolipede a few points of HP.

Though the HP increase is so marginal that I don't know if it's worth it for the sake of simplicity imo unless it survives a specific attack or two.

 

[HypnoEmpire]

Considering that Scolipede can out-speed a lot of Pokemon even without a Speed Boost, couldn't Swords Dance be a viable option on Scolipede? It could be slashed after Protect, but I'm not sure what KO's Scolipede can get with the Attack boost that it can't otherwise get. I wouldn't slash it over any other move, as Scolipede really needs the coverage. If you do decide to slash it after Protect, you may want to mention that you should only attempt to boost up after any threatening pokemon your opponent may have are gone (Talonflame and Mega Pinsir are key examples).

 

[Sturdynips]

Okay I'll use AG's spread for +speed kyu-b for the moment, with an alternate 84 / 252 / 172 spread to outrun Excadrill in the set details

HypnoEmpire Poison Jab isn't just for Fairies, it is Scolipede's best option against Keldeo for one. Also, being able to OHKO Azumarill is huge as it's really one of the biggest threats in OU. Charizard Y is KOed by Poison Jab after SR damage, and so are talonflame and pinsir; you don't risk the miss too which is nice. I'm happy with the slashes as they are. In regards to SD, it isn's worthy of a slash imo. If you sacrifice a coverage move you lose to a whole heap of threats, and if you sacrifice protect you just lose to anything faster like Latios and Greninja. Protect is mandatory imo. Also, even with SD you're not going to break Lando-T and Skarm and still lose to priority. I could put it in moves if QC wants that but i'm disinclined to otherwise. It belongs in OO of the main analysis i think.

 

[trc]

very nice, i think we could explore other speed benchmarks if we want because you get fast very quickly, but the immediate speed is helpful in some situations.

qc 2/3

 

[Sturdynips]

very nice, i think we could explore other speed benchmarks if we want because you get fast very quickly, but the immediate speed is helpful in some situations.

qc 2/3

Thank ye for the stamp kind sir

 

[MyNameIsVeryCreative]

Honestly I don't think Scolipede should have any speed investment at all. +1 with no speed investment is still faster than max speed timid Greninja, and +2 outspeeds every unboosted Pokemon in the game, even Deoxys-S. My recommendation would be 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def.
Edit: Rock slide is easily superior to poison jab. As someone said before poison jab is mainly for fairies but some fairy types are weak to Scolipede's coverage moves such as Mega Mawile, Klefki and Togekiss, the two formers are immune to poison jab anyway. Rock slide also OHKO's Zard Y and Talonflame on the switch which is very nice. Most of the grass types in OU are either immune or neutral to poison moves, which means overall never run poison jab unless your team absolutely needs it.
I reckon poison jab should be moved to OO.

 

[legs]

Honestly I don't think Scolipede should have any speed investment at all. +1 with no speed investment is still faster than max speed timid Greninja, and +2 outspeeds every unboosted Pokemon in the game, even Deoxys-S. My recommendation would be 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def.

That may sound good on paper, but often times this Scolipede is so effective because you can come in, kill something slower, and in that turn become very fast -- then the next turn you can use Protect and basically outspeed everything. The current benchmark of outspeeding +spe Kyu-b is good imo.

Also, I think the analysis should emphasize ways to wear down or lure in Talonflame more -- perhaps mentioning Rocky Helmet Garchomp as a teammate? Garchomp is also good since it has Fire Blast and can help against Skarmory.

 

[BurningMan]

I really think SD should get a mention not over any coverage move but at least over Protect it outspeeds enough things and has some useful resistances along with okayish bulk to take a weak hit, so you are not always forced to set-up on a predicted switch that i think it can be viable. Just mention that it can be more difficult against more offensive teams, but makes it easier to clean up balanced teams although it isn't too hard to force a switch against them especially since most people are going to predict a Protect.

Regarding the Speed EVs if we keep the current benchmark just go full speed, getting 6 more HP is never going to matter but being able to tie with other Scolipede sounds like something that could be useful. I have personally never been a fan of random HP EVs especially on Pokemon that play as offensive as Scolipede. Offensive Scolipede might not be the most common thing ever, but i think its more likely that you are going to face an opposing one than a situation where having 6 more HP is going to matter.

 

[Ash Borer]

tying with other scolipede is so exceedingly rare 1 extra HP point would be worth it. This is because unless the two are sent out together, which will almost never happen, one of the two will have more boosts than the other.

 

[Redolent]

I do think that a Jolly set with Swords Dance would work well. At 112 base Speed you're already outspeeding most relevant threats at +0, with the exception of Greninja, Raikou, Starmie, a few Scarfers and Deoxys-S (which Adamant +1 also misses anyway), so you can do most of what you could do without needing to Protect. But then if you do manage to grab a Swords Dance you'll have a significantly easier time cleaning up, as 2HKOs on the likes of Keldeo, Garchomp, Terrakion, Aegislash, Rotom-W, Togekiss and others become OHKOs. Also stops you getting walled and stalled out of LO recoil by things like Mandibuzz and Mega Venusaur. At least deserves consideration I think.

 

[CyclicCompound]

I'm going to say "no" to Swords Dance. This Scolipede set does not have the time, bulk, or passing ability to make Swords Dance worth a teamslot—keep in mind that if you ARE running Swords Dance, you should be focused on using Baton Pass to give it to something more offensively capable. You are not aiming to set up and sweep yourself, which is exceedingly hard when you are a Bug/Poison type with already limited offensive potential and uninvested, unimpressive bulk. Giving up Protect is also hard to do—there are many times when it's mandatory, and not carrying it limits Scolipede's potential far too much, seeing as you NEED Protect to take on the following major threats (excluding Talonflame and Mega Pinsir because bird priority):

PROTECT IS MANDATORY

Adamant Choice Scarf Excadrill
Greninja
Choice Scarf Tyranitar
Thundurus
Latios
Latias
Keldeo
Terrakion
Landorus
Timid Mega Charizard Y
Jolly Mega Charizard X

These are all not only dangerous sweepers that often need to be checked and/or revenge killed, but also Pokemon that will outright obliterate Scolipede if it doesn't carry Protect. Focus Sash is not an option not just because of hazards, but also the fact that having a late-game cleaner at 1 HP with no priority is literally the most unreliable thing ever.

A +2 Attack, +whatever Speed offensive Scolipede is certainly a big threat, but it's too unfeasible and unreliable to be viable.

 

[dice]

why not 64 hp lol +spe kyurem-b is nonexistent and outspeeding deo-d for the ohko is kinda huge..

i still think poison jab is good

 

[HypnoEmpire]

I'm going to say "no" to Swords Dance. This Scolipede set does not have the time, bulk, or passing ability to make Swords Dance worth a teamslot—keep in mind that if you ARE running Swords Dance, you should be focused on using Baton Pass to give it to something more offensively capable. You are not aiming to set up and sweep yourself, which is exceedingly hard when you are a Bug/Poison type with already limited offensive potential and uninvested, unimpressive bulk. Giving up Protect is also hard to do—there are many times when it's mandatory, and not carrying it limits Scolipede's potential far too much, seeing as you NEED Protect to take on the following major threats (excluding Talonflame and Mega Pinsir because bird priority):

PROTECT IS MANDATORY

Adamant Choice Scarf Excadrill
Greninja
Choice Scarf Tyranitar
Thundurus
Latios
Latias
Keldeo
Terrakion
Landorus
Timid Mega Charizard Y
Jolly Mega Charizard X

These are all not only dangerous sweepers that often need to be checked and/or revenge killed, but also Pokemon that will outright obliterate Scolipede if it doesn't carry Protect. Focus Sash is not an option not just because of hazards, but also the fact that having a late-game cleaner at 1 HP with no priority is literally the most unreliable thing ever.

A +2 Attack, +whatever Speed offensive Scolipede is certainly a big threat, but it's too unfeasible and unreliable to be viable.

These pokemon definitely threaten it, but I really don't see a reason for switching in on them or trying to set up in front of them, as the person using Scolipede should know its limitations. Plus, the threats you named (except Thundurus) can't do anything to Scolipede at +1, as Scolipede can annihilate most of them after a Swords Dance. Even Physically Defensive Tyranitar falls to Megahorn. A perfect example of something that Scolipede can set up on is Conkeldurr. Some calcs:

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Scolipede Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 627-741 (155.1 - 183.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 64 HP / 0 Def Scolipede: 136-160 (49 - 57.7%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO

Scolipede can take a Knock Off from Conkeldurr with relative ease and boost up in its face. In the calculation, I used the spread Dice presented with 64 HP EVs. 252 Attack and 192 Speed EVs were assumed. I really think Swords Dance is a viable option. If it doesn't make it, then you could at least make a mention of it.

 

[CyclicCompound]

HypnoEmpire, first of all, Scolipede CANNOT boost against a healthy (>70%-ish health) Conkeldurr. Knock Off followed by Ice Punch puts Scolipede in KO range of Mach Punch, and Scolipede cannot damage Conkeldurr enough after its Life Orb has been removed. However, that's beside the point.

I don't think you quite understand Scolipede's role. You will very commonly find yourself taking on the kinds of Pokemon I mentioned. Scolipede excels against offensive teams, usually in a slightly weakened state, and is capable of sweeping them late-game if stuff like Thundurus and Talonflame is removed. You cannot "expect" the opponent to have a Conkeldurr for you to set up against, and if your opponent is playing some form of defensive battling or stall, good luck being all that effective with a Scolipede, as it has virtually no way to safely break through common physical walls like Quagsire, Skarmory and Ferrothorn—besides, you would never use a Pokemon whose niche is Speed Boost to break through slow, defensive teams. My point still stands that Scolipede should be focusing on executing its goal, not attempting to be stronger by weaknening its main and only niche.

 

[Ash Borer]

Yes, cyclic has the right idea. Scoli is very dangerous cleaner with hazard support, you get it in late, you protect, and megahorn finishes the game. It is not intended to set up and break or sweep earlier than it has to.

 

[Sturdynips]

After a conversation on IRC, I've made the following updates:

• Changed the EV spread to outrun deo-d with kyu-b in set details
• Added a mention of SD into Moves. It is definitely not going to be slashed; see CyclicCompound's excellent post for detailed reasoning.

 

[Srn]

I think Gyro Ball Aqua Tail should get some sort of mention for helping to beat scarf Lando-T and Hippo, and random balloon steel types like Heatran and Exca. It's a decent coverage option.
Superpower also helps get past Ferro, but the drop is very detrimental.
Also, something like Focus Sash+Endeavor (+speed boost to kill the next turn) could be really annoying and cool. But it's more or less just speculating a gimmick.

 

[Sturdynips]

I think Gyro Ball Aqua Tail should get some sort of mention for helping to beat scarf Lando-T and Hippo, and random balloon steel types like Heatran and Exca. It's a decent coverage option.
Superpower also helps get past Ferro, but the drop is very detrimental.
Also, something like Focus Sash+Endeavor (+speed boost to kill the next turn) could be really annoying and cool. But it's more or less just speculating a gimmick.

Aqua Tail is already in the Moves section, its only target really is Landorus-T as Hippo takes the same damage from STAB Megahorn. Superpower, as you say, is annoying due to the Attack drop, and balloon users shouldn't be a problem as during the late game when Scolipede shines, balloons should be popped by then. Of course, it's possible that they aren't, but for the moment i dont think it's enough to consider Superpower.

Sash + Endeavor is a gimmick and if it's going to go anywhere it will only be in OO of the main set.

 

[Ash Borer]

this is excellent.

QC 3/3