Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V2) (Last update on post #5189)

[LeekSlap/ChewyDonuts]

I'm not so sure about these next round of changes. First of all, why is Alakazam lower than Mega Alakazam? Didn't we already establish that Alakazam is better than Mega Alakazam? Yes, his stats are better but it is incredibly easy to revenge kill while regular Alakazam can take hits due to Focus Sash and wallbreak with Life Orb. I always thought it was superior. EDIT: Also, where is Ninetales? I think it should just be D rank since Heat Rock Drought and better defensive capabilities is certainly a niche over the praised Zard Y. I actually went ahead and tried to make the best sun team possible and it still sucked a lot. Venusaur is actually really scary after a Growth and a huge threat to teams without Pinsir and Talonflame. I'd return Venusaur up to C+ rank

 

[Subject 18]

Okay. I updated the OP with all the recent updates from the VR thread. If I missed anything let me know.

-------

As for the recent discussions, I don't agree with Garchomp to S-Rank. While it's good and can fulfill several roles it just doesn't have the "it factor" that would push it to S-rank. It doesn't really fit with the pokemon currently there, it can't really sweep the majority of the meta, it doesn't have the support capabilities like Deo-D or Deo-S, the utility that Thundurus has, nor the sheer force of Landorus-I. I don't want people to think that Garchomp isn't great but I don't see it being S-ranked.

I agree that Landorus-I and Deoxys-D should go back to A+ rank and I'll reitarate my previous statement on the subject: if a pokemon can't realistically hold the S-rank position in the long term please do not move it there.

Pokemon like Aegislash, who can thrive in OU despite metagame shifts, no matter how much the opponent prepares for it, deserves its S-rank.
Pokemon like Landorus-I, who can be put in its place with the simple addition of highly viable OU pokemon such as Mamoswine, Azumarill or Greninja, shouldn't be there.

Well, can you tell me exactly why they shouldn't be S-rank? Unless you're able to show that these aren't metagame defining pokemon I don't see why they should be dropped. Like I've said in the past Deo-D is unmatched when it comes to setting up hazards. There are very, very few things that are able to stop it from doing its role entirely. Not only that but Deo-D is the reason that Hyper Offense is where it is today and no one will try to tell me that Hyper Offense isn't effective or extremely common at the moment.

As for Landorus, you how many Pokemon are there in the metagame that can match up very well against every single playstyle? Hyper Offensive just can't switch into it, and has to rely on either revenge killing or double switching to prevent it from being effective. Neither of which is entirely that reliable. Balance tends to carry a lot of Pokemon that just flat out lose to Landorus things like Ferrothorn, Chesnaught, Skarmory, Hippodown, Clefable, Rotom-W are all examples of this. Stall is manhandled by CM and Knock Off variants. Considering the fact that Bisharp is the best teammate for Landorus-I and it can just continually pressure Chansey to the point that Landorus will beat it with Focus Blast. Once that Chansey gets weakened its basically game over. I'm not understanding why it doesn't merit being S-rank.


Edit: I forgot to say this but please DO NOT post about Pokemon being added to the "conclusion reached" section. It's unnecessary for you to post it, let the mods take care it of if. Thank you.

 

[Monte Cristo]

Just wanted to clear this up since 1 person thought I said something different: I didn't say Char X loses to any team with a scarfer, I said it loses to any team with one of the popular ground scarfers

 

[theV8man]

Just wanted to clear this up since 1 person thought I said something different: I didn't say Char X loses to any team with a scarfer, I said it loses to any team with one of the popular ground scarfers

Just like Pinsir loses to any team carrying Skarmory and Azumarill loses to any team carrying Venusaur.

/s

 

[Lazybeef]

Okay. I updated the OP with all the recent updates from the VR thread. If I missed anything let me know.

Excadrill should be in A+, no? It is A+ in the VR thread.

Subject 18 Edit: Fixed it, thanks.

 

[Jacks0n]

see


And the set listed in the analysis is High Jump Kick / Zen Headbutt / Fire Punch (or Ice Punch) / Substitute. You only miss out on Lando-T and Gliscor (Dragonite is OHKOed by Zen Headbutt after SR, while Garchomp is OHKOed by HJK), but you've got teammates for that. I agree Mega Medicham is good, it's just not A- Imo.

I'll just bring this up again since it hasn't been addressed yet. What I believe to be the most underrated mon in the list.

C -> C+/B-/Hell even B : Umbreon is one of the best mixed defenders and is capable of easily taking any non-super effective hit bar Zard Y's Fire Blast. It performs the same cleric role as Sylveon (which is at B) with better bulk, Foul Play instead of Hyper Voice, and inferior typing which could be situationally better depending on the rest of the team. With defensive investment, Umbreon becomes a cleric with the same specially defensive bulk as Sylveon as well as a wall with a defensive bulk just very slightly below that of Mandibuzz (and without the SR weakness) with STAB Foul Play to punish physical attackers. Also has an edge over Sylveon as a status absorber with Synchronize.

I can see Umbreon moving to C+ but no way should it be any higher. Dark is a great type offensively, but quite a bad type defencively, especially sp.defencively. Almost all sp.attackers in ou cary things such as focust blast, it is completely destroyed by clefable, sylveon and mega gardy. It is good in uu, but it struggles in ou. It can pass wishes, which are good but something like clefable/chansey can do that better because they either have better abilities and typing or far superior bulk.

 

[Baharoth]

Well, can you tell me exactly why they shouldn't be S-rank? Unless you're able to show that these aren't metagame defining pokemon I don't see why they should be dropped. Like I've said in the past Deo-D is unmatched when it comes to setting up hazards. There are very, very few things that are able to stop it from doing its role entirely. Not only that but Deo-D is the reason that Hyper Offense is where it is today and no one will try to tell me that Hyper Offense isn't effective or extremely common at the moment.

Nobody is questioning Deo-Ds ability to do its job. The issue with it is that getting down SR and 1 layer of spikes ~70% of the time is nothing that should get you into S-rank. And metagame defining is kinda onesided here. Deo-D somewhat defines HO, sure, and yeah HO is common. But so is stall, especially in the higher ranks of the ladder and Stall is defined by Chansey, should we put her into S rank as well for that reason? Beeing useful for 1 single job on one kind of team simply shouldnt get you into S rank.

And Lando is easy to revenge kill for HO and easy to check for balance, i cant realy talk about stall since i have no experience with it. Its far easier to switch into it compared to Charizard Y as its coverage moves arent realy threatening and there is lots of stuff that doesnt care about Earth Power. Zard can simply spam Fire Blast, no matter what comes in it will take a shitload of dmg and most of the few things that can take the Blast kinda well are ohkoed/2hkoed by its coverage moves.

 

[Vryheid]

Lando may be easy to force out, but the Pokemon which can do it are also easy to wall- with only two weaknesses it's very easy to get it out of there safely. There are no OU viable counters to Landorus other than Cresselia due to how ridiculously hard it hits, as even walls like Chansey and Skarmory get blown apart by either Superpower or Focus Blast (especially combined with Knock Off). Even Mega Charizard X has better answers than Landorus, at least having to think twice before going after bulky water types like Suicune. And bulky offense? Forget about it, unless you're packing some super effective attacks Lando can win 1v1 against practically every Pokemon in the game.

It definitely deserves to have its high rating, Sheer Force is borderline game-breaking and the meta has not adjusted well around it at all.

 

[skies]

I'll just bring this up again since it hasn't been addressed yet. What I believe to be the most underrated mon in the list.

C -> C+/B-/Hell even B : Umbreon is one of the best mixed defenders and is capable of easily taking any non-super effective hit bar Zard Y's Fire Blast. It performs the same cleric role as Sylveon (which is at B) with better bulk, Foul Play instead of Hyper Voice, and inferior typing which could be situationally better depending on the rest of the team. With defensive investment, Umbreon becomes a cleric with the same specially defensive bulk as Sylveon as well as a wall with a defensive bulk just very slightly below that of Mandibuzz (and without the SR weakness) with STAB Foul Play to punish physical attackers. Also has an edge over Sylveon as a status absorber with Synchronize.

I've never been impressed with Umbreon, not at all. First thing is that it has very disappointing abilities that are not beneficial at all (I guess Synchronize is ok, but come on). My main issue with Umbreon is that it is not like Sylveon, it's very one-dimensional and the thing in common with them is that their defensive Eeveelutions. Sylveon completely eclipses it because it has a far superior typing and it is such a huge Taunt bait it's unbelieveable. Foul Play is nice and all, but I would not count it as a warrant to use it over Sylveon. It's ok, but it lacks offensive prowess, is kinda hard to fit on most teams, Sylveon eclipses it, and it is just Taunt / set up bait. I think it's fine where it is, but C Ranking would be the highest it should go. You can't honestly tell me Umbreon is in the same league as Sableye and Shuckle, or even Gothitelle and Sylveon, which are all much more consistent. In C+ even, it doesn't fit with Krookodile and Espeon. I think it should Stay in C- or move up to C.

EDIT:
Another Pokemon who I believe should move up is Chansey. Chansey is a very versatile Pokemon with many support moves including Wish, Soft-Boiled, Aromatherapy, Stealth Rock, Thunder Wave, Seismic Toss, Toxic, and much more, it supports its team very much and is a key component to Stall teams. It is notoriously known as one of the most bulky Pokemon and for a good reason, it's really freaking hard to take down with Special moves, and even some Physical attackers cannot break through Chansey. Now before someone gives me the argument: "But Knock Off makes it complete crap!" Well if you're using Chansey, then don't keep it in on anything that could potentially have Knock Off, if you let its Eviolite get Knocked Off then you are not using Chansey correctly and it is a complete waste of a Pokemon. Therefore, I believe Chansey should move up to A Rank. The key problem with Chansey is that a.) It is Taunt bait + setup fodder and b.) It lacks resistances. Taunt completely shuts Chansey down, and with Gengar rising in popularity with Taunt, Chansey is struggling. Chansey is completely shut down by Steel-types immune to Toxic and a top tier threat, Aegislash, is completely immune to anything Chansey can throw at it. Chansey is also very easy to set up on, however any setup sweeper must beware of Toxic, but if they have Substitute then Chansey is as good as dead. Finally, resistances is a key problem. What holds Chansey back is its Normal-type. Normal-type offers 0 resistances, and therefore it lacks the amazing synergy with some Pokemon like the infamous VenuTran. It does come with only one weakness, Fighting-type, so that's cool. Chansey can take most hits thrown at it anyways, but the lack of resistances is a nail in the coffin. Overall, Chansey is an amazing Pokemon and provides so much for its team that I believe it should move up a rank.

 

[Liarliarpantsonfire]

I could see Garchomp sitting in S rank just because it has a lot of things going for it. A Ground-type is almost mandatory in a metagame where VoltTurn is commonplace, and Garchomp is a Ground-type. Stealth Rock is another excellent reason to be using Garchomp. Dragon is still the best offensive typing, and Garchomp can make good use of it with STAB Ground coverage and moves like Fire Blast or Draco Meteor to wallbreak. It makes an excellent revenge killer with Choice Scarf or a sweeper with SubSalac SD. It's pretty much in the same league as Landorus-I, and I would say it's even harder to wall thanks to its nearly flawless dual STAB coverage. Garchomp for S rank!

 

[TheWyvernKing]

I could see Garchomp sitting in S rank just because it has a lot of things going for it. A Ground-type is almost mandatory in a metagame where VoltTurn is commonplace, and Garchomp is a Ground-type. Stealth Rock is another excellent reason to be using Garchomp. Dragon is still the best offensive typing, and Garchomp can make good use of it with STAB Ground coverage and moves like Fire Blast or Draco Meteor to wallbreak. It makes an excellent revenge killer with Choice Scarf or a sweeper with SubSalac SD. It's pretty much in the same league as Landorus-I, and I would say it's even harder to wall thanks to its nearly flawless dual STAB coverage. Garchomp for S rank!

Garchomp moving to S rank will just make people use any one of the common pokes that easily beats it. Ice shard users will become slightly more used like weavile/mamoswine and bam its back in A+. Also i posted a reply to something like this earlier but many A+ pokes can easily outshine garchomp. For example Mega Pinsir only needs 1 sd boost to sweep a team and although mega scizor may need 2 or 3 boosts to confirm the sweep it has better bulk than skarmory and can easily get the boosts. Also about what u said with volt-turn users becoming popular, nobody uses choice electrics as much as they used to and many of the common electrics can probably beat garchomp in 1v1 wether its rotom-w using will o wisp or a thundy with hp ice. Also skarmory walls swords dance variants 100% of the time and unless u predict the switch with fire blast garchomp the same thing will happen there. Also 1 other thing, sub-salac sd chomp seems rather easy to wall if u ask me but thats just my opinion.

 

[TheWyvernKing]

I'm not so sure about these next round of changes. First of all, why is Alakazam lower than Mega Alakazam? Didn't we already establish that Alakazam is better than Mega Alakazam? Yes, his stats are better but it is incredibly easy to revenge kill while regular Alakazam can take hits due to Focus Sash and wallbreak with Life Orb. I always thought it was superior. EDIT: Also, where is Ninetales? I think it should just be D rank since Heat Rock Drought and better defensive capabilities is certainly a niche over the praised Zard Y. I actually went ahead and tried to make the best sun team possible and it still sucked a lot. Venusaur is actually really scary after a Growth and a huge threat to teams without Pinsir and Talonflame. I'd return Venusaur up to C+ rank

A few pages ago we kinda established mega alakazam was better than regular alakazam. It's because alakazam can't perform it's role as a revenge killer as well in the bulky metagame we have today and running life orb makes it useless since modest mega zam hits harder and faster. Also a support ninetales will die pretty quick with rock weakness, no recovery outside of pain split and the fact that it can't do anything to heatran what so ever isn't helping much. Also I'm not sure what to think about venusaur moving up, todays metagame relies a lot more on priority than speed which doesn't make chlorophyl as outstanding as before. Also what would the set be because there are tons of pokes i can think of that resists 3 moves of the saur.

 

[Jacks0n]

I'm not so sure about these next round of changes. First of all, why is Alakazam lower than Mega Alakazam? Didn't we already establish that Alakazam is better than Mega Alakazam? Yes, his stats are better but it is incredibly easy to revenge kill while regular Alakazam can take hits due to Focus Sash and wallbreak with Life Orb. I always thought it was superior. EDIT: Also, where is Ninetales? I think it should just be D rank since Heat Rock Drought and better defensive capabilities is certainly a niche over the praised Zard Y. I actually went ahead and tried to make the best sun team possible and it still sucked a lot. Venusaur is actually really scary after a Growth and a huge threat to teams without Pinsir and Talonflame. I'd return Venusaur up to C+ rank

Mega alakazam is very underated in the current meta, with blistering speed it can run modest and still outpseed relevent threats like greninja. It hits so hard with a modest psychic and is a huge threat for offence. You might think that it is bad against stall, you are wrong by far. With a moveset of psychic/focust blast/taunt and hidden power [fire] it can be a huge pain for stall (baton pass too). It can make great use of its ability trace, against a pokemon like heatran it can switch in, trace flash fire and taunt, preventing tran of toxicking or roaring. This destroys momentum for the openent and allows the offencive player to gain tons of momentum. Trace can also be used to trace landorus's sheer force or greninja's protean which is neat asf. Honestly, with the right support alakazam can be a threat for offence and stall alike, the only thing holding it back is its frailty and the fact it takes up a mega evo. It can also clear the way for sweepers such as bd azum because it takes care of things such as ferro and mega venu. Honestly, am I the only person who thinks that this thing is great?

 

[TheWyvernKing]

Mega alakazam is very underated in the current meta, with blistering speed it can run modest and still outpseed relevent threats like greninja. It hits so hard with a modest psychic and is a huge threat for offence. You might think that it is bad against stall, you are wrong by far. With a moveset of psychic/focust blast/taunt and hidden power [fire] it can be a huge pain for stall (baton pass too). It can make great use of its ability trace, against a pokemon like heatran it can switch in, trace flash fire and taunt, preventing tran of toxicking or roaring. This destroys momentum for the openent and allows the offencive player to gain tons of momentum. Trace can also be used to trace landorus's sheer force or greninja's protean which is neat asf. Honestly, with the right support alakazam can be a threat for offence and stall alike, the only thing holding it back is its frailty and the fact it takes up a mega evo. It can also clear the way for sweepers such as bd azum because it takes care of things such as ferro and mega venu. Honestly, am I the only person who thinks that this thing is great?

I totally agree, i ran a set with sub and against stuff like bisharps it was pretty cool. I might use taunt now that i think about it cause that sounds pretty sweet but yeah mega alakazam is godly.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

Ninetales was removed entirely because a). its one, singular, redeeming feature is Drought, and it's not outclassed by Y-zard due to Heat Rock so it's a better support for sun teams, and b). sun teams blow, so in turn Ninetales blows because its singular purpose it supporting a team archetype that sucks.

 

[Amaan]

Adamant Zard X auto loses to any team with scarf exca, lando-t or (jolly too) chomp while jolly loses to any team with Quagsire. Zard X is an amazing pokemon, and it works differently from Garchomp, so does MPinsir, I'm just saying, they both have equal potential to fuck up your team. "can't boost speed" is a very crappy argument that shows you have very little knowledge on how Garchomp works, Garchomp is faster than Lando-I which is a extremely important benchmark. Skarm and Togekiss are as Azumarill and Heatran, if it choses 1 coverage it wins vs 1 and loses to another. Also, Ground/Dragon coverage is equally good in terms of resistances as Fire/Dragon. Also, Garchomp outspeeds and kills pretty much every burn spreader barring Stallbreaker Talonflame, which dies to it regardless. Garchomp also has better mixed defenses than Zard X, letting it take advantage of the fact that it has a neat NOT WEAK TO EQ defensive typing.
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 193-228 (53.9 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 338-398 (113.4 - 133.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
etc

Adamant Bulky Zard X(probably the best set) also can.

- Set up on Rotom-W freely
- Have Dragon and Fire STABS, Garchomp be jelly
- Have roost, Garchomp be jelly
- DRAGON DANCE, Garchomp be jelly
- have a burn immunity
- Able to switch types
- Hits harder

Comparing Garchomp to a pokemon that its miles above it(Also an actual S tier pokemon) is just silly.

 

[the-bumper-car]

Garchomp's Ground/Dragon coverage has too many holes in today's Fairy/Steel/Flying prevalent metagame. Let's also remember that Garchomp needs to find the opportunity to pull off a Swords Dance, which it is severely pressured to do in the current meta where a majority of the top offensive threats run a super-effective Ice or Fairy attack for coverage. I do think it is currently an A pokemon (although I'm not sure if it's an A+ pokemon) but I definitely disagree that it's an S-tier threat. It can't switch in on a majority of the offensive S and A pokemon, it can't safely set-up a Swords Dance on a free switch against those pokemon, and it is checked or walled by the majority of S and A defensive pokemon.

Also, on to non-Garchomp topics:

Is it just me, or do the viability rankings have a bias towards Offensive vs Defensive pokemon? Sure, a lot of the pokemon in the top S/A tiers can also play defensive roles, but the more classic walls like Hippo, Clefable, M-Venu, Chansey, Skarmory, and Mandibuzz are outnumbered by their non-attacking brethren (Deoxys D is a weird case of a defensively statted mon who isn't used as a wall). Is this just a normal usage thing, since the offensive pokes who can get past these walls would be higher in the viability (and when everyone is using these offensive mons, then the walls' viability goes down) or is it more of a statement on how in spite of (or because of?) the more bulky metagame of GenVI OU, offense is still king?

(Also should Chansey really be at A- now? Haven't we gotten past the point of "BUT KNOCK-OFF RUINS ITS WALLING ABILITY" now that everyone has accepted that Knock-off is a thing now and factoring it into their team-building and playing decisions, and no longer considering it for a suspect test?)

 

[Salt]

Subject 18, I think it would be in the best interest of everyone if the rankings this thread and the VR rankings actually matched. They've been different for quite a long time even though it's been established that every change made there would also be made here. I don't know why that is (my guess is that this thread is simply neglected by the OU mods while Gary can make changes whenever he wants) but I think it's time to get back on track. Here's what the current list looks like in relation to where the current mons are in VR.

Hide

S Rank:

Aegislash

Charizard (Mega-X)

Deoxys-D

Deoxys-S

Landorus-I

Thundurus-I

A Rank:

A+ Rank

Azumarill

Bisharp

Charizard (Mega-Y)

Clefable

Excadrill

Garchomp

Greninja

Gyarados (Mega)

Keldeo

Mawile (Mega)

Pinsir (Mega)

Scizor (Mega)

Talonflame

Tyranitar (Mega)

A Rank

Dragonite

Ferrothorn

Gengar

Heatran

Hippowdon

Kyurem-B

Landorus-T

Latios

Terrakion

Tyranitar

Venusaur (Mega)

A- Rank

Chansey

Latias

Mamoswine

Manaphy

Mandibuzz

Rotom-W

Skarmory

Zapdos

B Rank:

B+ Rank

Conkeldurr

Diggersby

Garchomp (Mega)

Gardevoir (Mega)

Gyarados

Gliscor

Kabutops

Medicham (Mega)

Politoed

Quagsire

Scolipede

Slowbro

B Rank

Amoonguss

Breloom (B+ in VR)

Chesnaught

Gothitelle

Heracross (Mega)

Lucario

Kingdra

Manectric (Mega) (B+ in VR)

Mew

Raikou (B+ in VR)

Scizor (B+ in VR)

Suicune

Sylveon

Tornadus-T

Victini (B- in VR)

B- Rank

Absol (Mega)

Aggron (Mega) (C+ in VR)

Alakazam (Mega)

Crawdaunt

Entei (C+ in VR)

Rhyperior

Roserade (C in VR)

Rotom-H (C+ in VR)

Sableye (C+ in VR)

Sharpedo (C+ in VR)

Shuckle (C+ in VR)

Staraptor

Starmie (C+ in VR)

Volcarona

Zygarde (C+ in VR)


C Rank:

C+ Rank

Abomasnow (Mega) (C in VR)

Aerodactyl (Mega)

Alakazam

Ampharos (Mega)

Blastoise (Mega)

Blissey (C in VR)

Chandelure (C in VR)

Darmanitan

Dugtrio (C in VR)

Espeon

Gardevoir (C in VR)

Goodra

Gourgeist-Small (C in VR)

Haxorus

Hydreigon

Klefki

Krookodile

Reuniclus (C in VR)

Tangrowth (C in VR)

Thundurus-T (B- in VR)

Togekiss

Vaporeon

Weavile

Wobbuffet (C in VR)

C Rank

Banette (Mega)

Cresselia (C- in VR)

Crobat

Ditto (C+ in VR)

Escavalier

Gorebyss (C- in VR)

Houndoom (Mega)

Infernape

Kyurem (C+ in VR)

Magnezone

Moltres

Omastar

Porygon2

Salamence

Smeargle (C+ in VR)

Snorlax

Tornadus

Toxicroak

Umbreon

C-

Froslass (Unranked in VR)

Hawlucha

Ludicolo

Slowking

Zoroark

D Rank:

Celebi (C+ in VR)

Cloyster

Durant (Unranked in VR)

Empoleon

Exploud

Gourgeist-XL (C in VR)

Honchkrow (Unranked in VR)

Jellicent (Unranked in VR)

Jirachi (C- in VR)

Machamp (Unranked in VR)

Mawile (Unranked in VR)

Mr. Mime

Nidoking (Unranked in VR)

Noivern (Unranked in VR)

Rotom-C (Unranked in VR)

Shaymin (Unranked in VR)

Tentacruel (Unranked in VR)

Trevenant (Unranked in VR)

Venusaur (Unranked in VR)

Weezing (Unranked in VR)

Cofagrigus is unranked here, but D rank in VR.

imo, it's pretty ridiculous when you see how different the two threads are and how neglected they've become, especially since it's just the lower ranks. I know I'm no expert on this, but I feel like we should reevaluate (again) what makes a Pokemon viable enough to be on these rankings. Just my two (okay a lot more than two) cents here.

 

[Jacks0n]

Mega alakazam is very underated in the current meta, with blistering speed it can run modest and still outpseed relevent threats like greninja. It hits so hard with a modest psychic and is a huge threat for offence. You might think that it is bad against stall, you are wrong by far. With a moveset of psychic/focust blast/taunt and hidden power [fire] it can be a huge pain for stall (baton pass too). It can make great use of its ability trace, against a pokemon like heatran it can switch in, trace flash fire and taunt, preventing tran of toxicking or roaring. This destroys momentum for the openent and allows the offencive player to gain tons of momentum. Trace can also be used to trace landorus's sheer force or greninja's protean which is neat asf. Honestly, with the right support alakazam can be a threat for offence and stall alike, the only thing holding it back is its frailty and the fact it takes up a mega evo. It can also clear the way for sweepers such as bd azum because it takes care of things such as ferro and mega venu. Honestly, am I the only person who thinks that this thing is great?

Move Mega Alakzam to B The reasons above perfectly explain how mega alakazam is a great pokemon in the current meta. What? You think its too frail and weak to priority? Thats what team support is for and thats what's holding it back from being an A+ pokemon (aswell as the fact it takes up you're mega slot). I Think people dont realise how good this thing is against offence and stall.

 

[Durant]

You should move normal Gardevoir to C rank as it is C rank in victory road forums.

 

[Jaffa Ball]

Move Garchomp from A+ to S

Garchomp fits the brief of a Pokemon that can thrive in any metagame, thus a reasons to make it S Rank.
Scarf Garchomp is the best at what it does Revenge Killing; and requires little to no support to make it work.
Natural bulk. Garchomp has 105 HP / 95 Def / 85 Sp.Def. Garchomp's Natural Bulk is enough for it to be able to survive any Ice Shard bar Mamoswines.
102 Speed is Phenomenal. Without Choice Scarf, Garchomp outspeeds the myriad of Base 100's and Landorus-I making it useful with so many base 100's running around. With Choice Scarf, Garchomp outspeeds Scarf Base 100's, Latios and Latias (Important), and the fastest unboosted Pokemon in the metagame (Aerodactyl-Mega and Alakazam-Mega and Deoxys-S)
In retrospect the current S Rank includes Deoxys-D and Landorus two Pokemon who are less offensive pressure and in some cases less Speed than Garchomp and that is why I'm offering this suggestion.

 

[Zibbity]

I have a few to say about the rankings.

Clefable as an A+ Pokemon is absurd. It's base stats 95/70/73/95/90/60 are underwhelming for a top tier OU threat. You have to invest EV's in defenses else it's too frail. There are few attacks Clefable can switch into. Certain Pokemon like Crawdaunt and Diggersby can OHKO it (without defenses boosts). It is taunt bait. It is slow. It's attacks are weak without sacrific. It was an RU mon last generation and the fact it's typing is now Fairy does not make it that much more OP. Move down to A- at best.


Next for Keldeo and Rotom Wash, as much as I love Keldeo, it/he does not deserve A+ due to his shallow offensive movepool on the special side. That 72 attack is not very helpful. Greninja has better physical and special movepool and although lacking the extra power and Skarmsey coverage. Keldeo is an A Pokemon at best. As much as I despise Rotom Wash and being too predictable, it gets many switch-in opportunities. Even though it’s too obvious when it’s going to Will-o-Wisp, Hydro Pump, or Volt Switch, it’s EVs are tough to guess and those moves still provide great coverage. Gastrodon is trash as a counter and the prevalence of Wash has forced me to use Mega Venusaur frequently. It’s difficult to OHKO without Mold Breaker EQ or a boosted grass attack. Wash also an A Pokemon.

Scizor getting a B rank is also absurd. True, Mega Scizor is quite superior in terms of bulk and strength, but a Choice Banded Scizor set with Bullet Punch, Knock-off, and U-turn for me has been very useful and hard hitting. Scizor for B+ or better.

The growing number of Pokemon in D rank is a sign of lazy analysis. Most of them ought to be ranked in the C's whether they are underused or not. Out of those Pokemon, I’m surprised to see Jirachi there. It was S ranked last gen, and from the battles I’ve watched, it still causes a last of trouble with paraflinching like Togekiss. What’s wrong with it?

 

[Flareon]

Clefable as an A+ Pokemon is absurd. It's base stats 95/70/73/95/90/60 are underwhelming for a top tier OU threat... It was an RU mon last generation and the fact it's typing is now Fairy does not make it that much more OP...

A couple of things wrong with this.

First, a pokemon's BST doesn't determine it's status, otherwise Breloom in BW would be NU and Regigigas would be Ubers.

Second, a pokemon's Tiering last gen has zero standing on its Tiering this gen. Gastrodon was NU in gen4 and OU in gen 5.

Third, you might be underestimating just how powerful that fairy addition is. Azumarill getting it was enough to bump it up to OU, as it gave it secondary STAB and, more importantly in relation to Clefable, more resistances. Clefable's only weakness got turned into a resistance in exchange for two relatively uncommon weaknesses, making it the best unaware user IMO.

The growing number of Pokemon in D rank is a sign of lazy analysis. Most of them ought to be ranked in the C's whether they are underused or not. Out of those Pokemon, I’m surprised to see Jirachi there. It was S ranked last gen, and from the battles I’ve watched, it still causes a last of trouble with paraflinching like Togekiss. What’s wrong with it?

Aegislash exists, pretty much. Being weak to dark and ghost really hamper Jirachi now.

 

[Zibbity]

A couple of things wrong with this.

First, a pokemon's BST doesn't determine it's status, otherwise Breloom in BW would be NU and Regigigas would be Ubers.

I agree with this. For Clefable the base stats only hold back Clefable from being too good of a defensive wall or special sweeper. It NEEDS turns to set up before being a serious threat.

Second, a pokemon's Tiering last gen has zero standing on its Tiering this gen. Gastrodon was NU in gen4 and OU in gen 5.

Here again I agree...

Third, you might be underestimating just how powerful that fairy addition is. Azumarill getting it was enough to bump it up to OU, as it gave it secondary STAB and, more importantly in relation to Clefable, more resistances. Clefable's only weakness got turned into a resistance in exchange for two relatively uncommon weaknesses, making it the best unaware user IMO.

For Azumarill, it has gained more than Clefable since it has a duel typing and Play Rough to make use of it's '149' base attack. Clefable just switched types, got Moonblast, and it's SAtk from 85 to 95, and somehow it jumped two tiers whereas Azu moved up one.

Aegislash exists, pretty much. Being weak to dark and ghost really hamper Jirachi now.

Yes, its weaknesses mean it's worse than last generation but it's offensive capabilities and hax remain unchanged. Choice scarfed Iron Head is no laughing matter. Clefable cannot withstand that. It deserves a C ranking at least.

I'm not arguing that Clefable should be allowed in UU or is outclassed, it's being overpraised with its downsides ignored-- mainly it's iffy stats. I can only use Unaware sets. I've tried Magic Guard + Life Orb sets with 252 HP and 252 Def EV's and it was too frail and let me down repeatedly.

 

[Hclegend]

Yes, its weaknesses mean it's worse than last generation but it's offensive capabilities and hax remain unchanged. Choice scarfed Iron Head is no laughing matter. Clefable cannot withstand that. It deserves a C ranking at least.

Well yeah, it's a STAB SE attack coming off 100 base Attack. It's gonna fucking hurt
You could argue the same for Galvantula because it can kill ZardY with Thunder. or Golem can kill it with Stone Edge. Plus, priority has become a lot more common meaning Jirachi gets outsped and RKd. Plus gaining 2 weaknesses isn't good. Jirachi is just outclassed as a offensive Steel type by Aegislash. The same has happened to Metagross. They're bit as good thanks to the Steel Nerf and Dark/Ghost types on most teams.