Kecleon and Friends

[ThunderBirdJack]

So I've been battling since Gen V, and I've bounced from OU to PU trying out different teams and playstyles. But my heart lies in UU, but I still try to use lower-tier pokes who I think are EXTREMELY under-rated like Kecleon. I tend to stick to the traditional formula of a defensive core that synergises with the offensive pokes. My teams are never too stally and never too hyper offence. I dont really like to use BP or gimicky teams, so i guess im pretty traditional. But this team does qualify for a Volt-Turn with Rotom and Crobat, so thats cool. So without further ado, Kecleon and Friends! This team shines when used by a smart battler. Its not a team with OP mons where you can spam Quiver Dance or Sub-Calm mind and easily win. I like to think of this team as thought provoking in nature, and if and when you try it out, I hope they make you think.

The Squad at a glance.
I would make one of those cool Team-Building processes, but I'm too lazy and technologically challenged when it comes to posting in forums.

Their roles:
Crobat- Scout/Anti-lead
Swampert- Physical wall/Rocks/Phaser
Rotom-Heat- Specs heavy Special Hitter/Trick
Trevenant-Special wall/Sub-Seed
Kecleon- Bulky tank/priority abuser
Heracross- LOrb heavy Physical hitter

First Voler the Crobat (Voler means "to fly" or "to steal" in French)

Voler (Crobat) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 136 HP / 120 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- U-turn
- Taunt

I use Crobat mainly because whenever I face a team with him, I usually loose. He is crazy fast, as is a great scout with U-Turn and Taunt. I have some decent attack EVs so he dosent become set-up fodder or preform worse that he should. Crobat is my usual lead,with enough speed to either taunt or U-turn out into something better. He synergises really well with Swampert, as Crobat resists Grass by 4x and Swampert is immune to electric and resistant to rock. Actually, this team was an RU team with Eviolite Golbat and Gastrodon as the core, but I moved it up to UU just so I could use the great utility that is Crobat. Also, Infiltrator is a great ability, and Crobat has saved my ass multiple times.

Next is Marecage the Swampert (Marecage means "Swamp" in French)

Marécage (Swampert) @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Def / 56 SAtk
Relaxed Nature
- Scald
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Roar

Swampert is my main physical wall, and a damn good one at that. He can take on any physical fire type like Darmanitan and Arcanine and deal with them handily. Swampert synergises very well with Crobat and like Crobat, this was originally a gastrodon in the RU tier. Swamper sets up rocks and phases if nothing can touch him. his 4x weakness to grass is offset by threats to grass types like Crobat, Rotom-heat and Heracross. This is a member of the team id rather not change, because he does his job so well.

Up next is Incendium the Rotom-Heat (Incendium means a blazing fire in Latin)

Incendium (Rotom-Heat) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Overheat
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Trick

Rotom-Heat is the bomb. Literally, he explodes and pretty much kills anything that dosent resist. I really enjoy running this set because its not really expected as much as a Specially Defensive set. With his nifty Ability Levitate and good resistances, I can come in on a resisted move or Will-o-wisp and get off big damage on something. Volt Switch is there to get some nice Volt-turnin momentum, but because both are weak to rocks, this is limited. I really love what rotom can do, and he is also the only special attacker on the team, which is another problem. He could use some support in a spinner and another special attacker to fall back on, and if y'all decide to replace him, please choose a special poke. Sweet.

Next, rounding out the Fire/Water/Grass is Geisterbaum the Trevenant. (Geisterbaum means "Ghost tree" in German)

Geisterbaum (Trevenant) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
Careful Nature
- Substitute
- Will-O-Wisp
- Leech Seed
- Horn Leech

Trevenant is my "special wall" and this is a poke that I love to use, but would be fine with choosing a different one to fill the Specially defensive grass spot. Trevenant is very usefull, being able to burn his opponents and set up a leech seed on them. That combined with the Sitrus/Hervest combo makes trevenant VERY difficult to get rid of. That being said, Trev is easily killed by the ever-present Knock off, and a Dark Pulse coming from a potent special attacker can spell death for him. The EVs in place are there to maximize his walling potential as a special tank. Im on the fence of using Phantom force instead of Horn Leech, but Id loose my Grass stab in favor of being able to hit things like Shaymin, which otherwise walls Trev.

Next up, the potent physical monster and status absorber, Arracher the Heracross. (Arracher is a verb in French that means "To up-root or tear out". I think it fits because of Heracross's horn)

Arracher (Heracross) @ Life Orb Toxic Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Megahorn
- Stone Edge
- Knock Off
This is another member that is subject to change. With the guts ability, Heracross can come in on a predicted burn or Toxic and proceed to rape. with the life orb, Heracross is a mercurial and volitile attacker with the option to change moves at will. One of the things that makes Scarfed Heracross easily counterable is that its locked into one move, but this set fixes that, at the cost of some speed. I like running Knock off on him because I can suprise ghost types comming in predicting a close combat. Heracross is very good and has closed out many games for me, as well as punched holes in teams early on. It was a mega, but it got banned to OU, so the LOrb is what ill have to settle with. I could run a Expert Belt to bluff the CHoiuced item, but I prefer the power of the LOrb.

And now the star of the show, Proteus the Kecleon ( Proteus and the Ability Protean are named after the Greek sea-god Proteus, who could tell the future will change his shape to avoid having to; he will answer only to someone who is capable of capturing him. From this feature of Proteus comes the adjective protean, with the general meaning of "versatile", "mutable", "capable of assuming many forms".

Proteus (Kecleon) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Power-Up Punch
- Sucker Punch
- Shadow Sneak

With the Assault Vest, Kecleon becomes a Special Defensive tank, coming from a base 125 SpDef. But thats not what this set is about. When most people see Kecleon, they post in the battle chat "lol" or "what does that thing do?" Little do they know that they are about to be swept. Kecleon is a very good revenge killer, as the combo of Fake Out and Shadow Sneak/Sucker Punch can KO most things that have been whittled down. Power-Up Punch is there to boost Kecleons bas 90 attack to amazing levels. If your opponent lets you boost to plus 2, not much can live a STAB +2 Sucker punch that dosent resist it. plus, you can play some mind games with your opponent byb using priority moves to change you type resistances before the opposing poke has a chance to attack. Kecleon has cleaned up many games and is a very under-estimated threat if allowed to set up.

Battles where Kecleon cleans up the game, and are just good games in general:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-116923045
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-116938406
Thanks for reading my RMT! I put quite a bit of time into this, and I will appreciate and consider every comment. any changes I make will be edited in RED.
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Things I am looking for:
- A specially defensive Grass type, complete with toxic/burn and ability to wall a lot of stuff
- possibly a Wish passer/Aromatherapy user. I know that Aromatisse is popular for that role, but I refuse to use that ugly-ass thing
-A spinner/Defoger. I know Crobat can use defog, but really like his moveset the way it is.
-another special threat other than rotom, because Physical walls can really cause trouble if Rotom is gone.
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[ApplepieFTW]

Real quick: LO cross is kinda cool, but it gets worn down so fast in practice that CB is usually better. CC/Megahorn do mad damage to anything that doesnt quad resists both moves (crobat) and then SE and knock off. I do think its better, but its your call. Also I really like your name descriptions :)

 

[ThunderBirdJack]

Real quick: LO cross is kinda cool, but it gets worn down so fast in practice that CB is usually better. CC/Megahorn do mad damage to anything that doesnt quad resists both moves (crobat) and then SE and knock off. I do think its better, but its your call. Also I really like your name descriptions :)

Thanks dude, I apreciate you comment on my nicknames.I enjoy language a lot, so its fun for me to associate foreign words and phrases with Pokemon. I hesitate using a Band on Heracross because I like switching up moves. Because I have Guts, Im gonna try out the Toxic Orb so I can come in, mess sh!t up, and get out. But Ill try the CB for a couple matches and see how things go.

 

[ApplepieFTW]

Thanks dude, I apreciate you comment on my nicknames.I enjoy language a lot, so its fun for me to associate foreign words and phrases with Pokemon. I hesitate using a Band on Heracross because I like switching up moves. Because I have Guts, Im gonna try out the Toxic Orb so I can come in, mess sh!t up, and get out. But Ill try the CB for a couple matches and see how things go.

Yes, I highly recommend toxic orb guts cross as it is the best of both worlds. It looks like a great fit too!

 

[ThunderBirdJack]

Yes, I highly recommend toxic orb guts cross as it is the best of both worlds. It looks like a great fit too!

Thanks dude, Im gonna try it out and make the change.

 

[ThunderBirdJack]

Shameless bump. please rate, Id like to be a better teambuilder

 

[Iminyourcloset]

I'm editing what I said from my phone on my laptop this morning so it can be more coherent. I love your team, it seems to have pretty good synergy. The names are really awesome too.
I do feel your rotom-H set is good, specs is always a nice set, but may I suggest a cool set of mine?
A big thing about rotom-h is it's defensive typing. It has resistances to bug, grass, fire, electric, steel(4x), flying, ice, and fairy, and is immune to ground (I think that's it) and is only weak to water and rock. So having a specs set can really wittle down it's survivability and easily break synergy for your team. This is why I'm suggesting a weirder set that I love: Charge Beam. While it may sound gimmicky, I've had success with it througout my career in BWUU. I don't have very much experience at all in XYUU, but theorizing, it shouldn't be too different. The set:
Rotom-H @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Spatk, 252 speed, 4 spdef (If you want, you can definitely go bulky. However, Rotom-H usually does enjoy the speed and power, I've noticed personally)
Timid Nature (if you go bulky, Bold or Careful)
- Charge Beam
- Overheat
- Hidden Power Grass
- Pain Split

While it may look a little unconventional, it's actually a pretty cool set that usually screws something over on the opposing team. Charge Beam/Overheat may seem redundant, but generally you'll use Charge Beam before Overheat, cancelling out that ugly spatk drop, or at least lessening its intensity, which is always awesome. CB and Overheat are STABs and the cruxes of the set. HP Grass is good with those two stabs, taking care of the likes of Swampert and other water/grounds. Pain Split is a big part in the survivability factor, since rotom-h has an interesting bulky range where not much OHKOs it, but a lot of stuff can get it down to yellow or red pretty easily, meaning Pain Split is fit for the job.

The reason I want you to use this Rotom-H set is because if you look at your team, it's a bunch of lovely bulky offense, then just a tossed in specs rotom-h. It just doesn't go with the team very well. The above Rotom set is what I believe would be better for a team such as this one.

The only other thing that concerns me is the MVP of the team: Kecleon. I just can't seem to see how it would work very well. Is it possible you can post some battle replays so I and the other responders know how it works?

Otherwise, very amazing team, ThunderBirdJack.

 

[Iminyourcloset]

Just wanted to say that I edited my weird phone post into an actual post. :D

 

[Patrick1088]

Hmm very different team. I do have a few pointers though...
1. Why that ev spread on crobat? I dont tbink you need max speed. All he needs is 136 with jolly to outpace base 115s like absol and doom megas. You could invest the rest into hp and attack (176 hp for sr number/192 atk/4 sp def for download boost/136 speed).
2. Why that ev spread on swampy exactly?
3. Scarf over toxic orb on hera to reliably check non flame charge mega doom)
4. On kecleon, its actually surprisingly bulky. It can take a +2 fire blast from mega doom with sr on the field. But, you need to drop fake out and have drain punch. Dp is a guaranteed ohko on mega doom after sr and replenishes your health.


Other than that, cool team!

 

[ThunderBirdJack]

I'm editing what I said from my phone on my laptop this morning so it can be more coherent. I love your team, it seems to have pretty good synergy. The names are really awesome too.
I do feel your rotom-H set is good, specs is always a nice set, but may I suggest a cool set of mine?
A big thing about rotom-h is it's defensive typing. It has resistances to bug, grass, fire, electric, steel(4x), flying, ice, and fairy, and is immune to ground (I think that's it) and is only weak to water and rock. So having a specs set can really wittle down it's survivability and easily break synergy for your team. This is why I'm suggesting a weirder set that I love: Charge Beam. While it may sound gimmicky, I've had success with it througout my career in BWUU. I don't have very much experience at all in XYUU, but theorizing, it shouldn't be too different. The set:
Rotom-H @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Spatk, 252 speed, 4 spdef (If you want, you can definitely go bulky. However, Rotom-H usually does enjoy the speed and power, I've noticed personally)
Timid Nature (if you go bulky, Bold or Careful)
- Charge Beam
- Overheat
- Hidden Power Grass
- Pain Split

While it may look a little unconventional, it's actually a pretty cool set that usually screws something over on the opposing team. Charge Beam/Overheat may seem redundant, but generally you'll use Charge Beam before Overheat, cancelling out that ugly spatk drop, or at least lessening its intensity, which is always awesome. CB and Overheat are STABs and the cruxes of the set. HP Grass is good with those two stabs, taking care of the likes of Swampert and other water/grounds. Pain Split is a big part in the survivability factor, since rotom-h has an interesting bulky range where not much OHKOs it, but a lot of stuff can get it down to yellow or red pretty easily, meaning Pain Split is fit for the job.

The reason I want you to use this Rotom-H set is because if you look at your team, it's a bunch of lovely bulky offense, then just a tossed in specs rotom-h. It just doesn't go with the team very well. The above Rotom set is what I believe would be better for a team such as this one.

The only other thing that concerns me is the MVP of the team: Kecleon. I just can't seem to see how it would work very well. Is it possible you can post some battle replays so I and the other responders know how it works?

Otherwise, very amazing team, ThunderBirdJack.

Thanks for the long rating dude, I appreciate it a lot. I will post battle replays of Kecleon eating souls on Showdown, and I actually just finished breeding my own in game, so thats something. Basically, Kecleon is my revenge killer/set up-sweeper. He can revenge kill things with a combo of Fake-Out and Sucker/shadow sneak. also, if my opponent lets me set up to +2 with PuP, Its pretty much GG, as a STAB base 90 252 ev adamant +2 Sucker punch kills a lot of the tier if its whittled down. plus, the combo of ghost, dark and normal stabs give me the power of mind games over my opponent, which is a hell of a lot of fun.

The reason I run Specs on Rotom is because he is my only special attacker on my team, and I want it to hit as hard as possible (except for modest/timid). I will definantly try out you charge beam set, as it is really cool and unique, and I will defiantly give it a shot.

Also, I like how you see my team as a "bulky offense", because I never intended it to become that in the slightest. I usually try to go fore balence, but I guess UU is becomming a bulky tier, and I needed to match that.

 

[Iminyourcloset]

Thanks for the long rating dude, I appreciate it a lot. I will post battle replays of Kecleon eating souls on Showdown, and I actually just finished breeding my own in game, so thats something. Basically, Kecleon is my revenge killer/set up-sweeper. He can revenge kill things with a combo of Fake-Out and Sucker/shadow sneak. also, if my opponent lets me set up to +2 with PuP, Its pretty much GG, as a STAB base 90 252 ev adamant +2 Sucker punch kills a lot of the tier if its whittled down. plus, the combo of ghost, dark and normal stabs give me the power of mind games over my opponent, which is a hell of a lot of fun.

The reason I run Specs on Rotom is because he is my only special attacker on my team, and I want it to hit as hard as possible (except for modest/timid). I will definantly try out you charge beam set, as it is really cool and unique, and I will defiantly give it a shot.

Also, I like how you see my team as a "bulky offense", because I never intended it to become that in the slightest. I usually try to go fore balence, but I guess UU is becomming a bulky tier, and I needed to match that.

Firstly, no problem! I love teambuilding, and I love team rating. And I'm a person who knows how to ramble on and on. So that works for me :3 Congrats on getting in-game competitive 'mons too. That's always an accomplishment. And thanks for clearing that up--Kecleon makes quite a bit more sense now to me. But yeah, I'd still love to see a replay where kecleon shines, because to be completely honest, it seems a bit gimmicky, but I mean, so does my ChargeBeam Rotom. (/shrug)

And Specs rotom is a great set. But here's the thing. Rotom-H is weak to Rocks, and that sucks because it also isn't that bulky. And currently, you have no defog/RapidSpin/WishPasser/direct support to keep Rotom-H healthy. This means that it's versatility is limited, because A) it'll have to switch out constantly due to specs, and B) Volt Switch and Overheat meant that Rotom-H will have to leave the field, either right away or because it can't do anything. And with it being your only Special attacker, it's like a secondary MVP to your team. It just seems like a weak point in your team. My set I think will do wonders, (feel free to tweak it to your liking, whatever you need is whatever you need) and hopefully it suits what you want.

And Bulky Offense is basically a form of balance, so don't worry. Remember, balance isn't just three sweepers/three walls. You have some inbetweeners (your rotom set as of now, and your swampert are on different ends, for example) and that's fine.

Again, very nice team.

EDIT: Sorry, just realized you edited in some replays. Thanks!!

 

[RowDog]

Well if you really want to hit those Water/Grounds and Rhyperior with Rotom-H I'd suggest HP Grass over TBolt. Volt Switch is really staple on a Choice set when you have access to it and hits everything only a little less than TBolt. HP Grass makes Rotom-H a very difficult Pokemon to wall and really destroys some would be counters. And I don't really want to destroy the idea of Specs Rotom, because it is a good strong hitter.

Now, I know that you are happy with your Crobat set but Rotom-H really does need some form of hazard clearance, so I'd suggest Defog over Taunt. It is too easy for your opponent to get SR up during the match, and Crobat is rather reliable at clearing them throughout, and even looking at just your 2 replays it was somewhat of a problem.

Lastly I'd also like to second Drain Punch over Fake Out. A tanky attacker like Kecleon could really use some recovery, especially considering Protean makes you resist a lot of predicted moves but no way to heal off that damage.
EDIT: you can't use that last suggestion because Drain Punch is only Gen 5 tutor :(

 

[Patrick1088]

Disregard all statements on dp on kecleon...

Dp is a transfer only move from bw2. Kecleon didnt have a HA last gen, sobits impossible to have drain punch and protean on the same set... humph!

 

[RowDog]

Aw yeah :( that sucks.

 

[Patrick1088]

Aw yeah :( that sucks.

Yeah, if kecleon wasnt running av, it could run disable to really screw up pokes between type protean and priority.. man he really has a barren movepool...

I suppose you coukd keep fake out, but return could definitely be mentioned due to it only being resisted by rock steel and ghosts...

 

[ThunderBirdJack]

Firstly, no problem! I love teambuilding, and I love team rating. And I'm a person who knows how to ramble on and on. So that works for me :3 Congrats on getting in-game competitive 'mons too. That's always an accomplishment. And thanks for clearing that up--Kecleon makes quite a bit more sense now to me. But yeah, I'd still love to see a replay where kecleon shines, because to be completely honest, it seems a bit gimmicky, but I mean, so does my ChargeBeam Rotom. (/shrug)

And Specs rotom is a great set. But here's the thing. Rotom-H is weak to Rocks, and that sucks because it also isn't that bulky. And currently, you have no defog/RapidSpin/WishPasser/direct support to keep Rotom-H healthy. This means that it's versatility is limited, because A) it'll have to switch out constantly due to specs, and B) Volt Switch and Overheat meant that Rotom-H will have to leave the field, either right away or because it can't do anything. And with it being your only Special attacker, it's like a secondary MVP to your team. It just seems like a weak point in your team. My set I think will do wonders, (feel free to tweak it to your liking, whatever you need is whatever you need) and hopefully it suits what you want.

And Bulky Offense is basically a form of balance, so don't worry. Remember, balance isn't just three sweepers/three walls. You have some inbetweeners (your rotom set as of now, and your swampert are on different ends, for example) and that's fine.

Again, very nice team.

EDIT: Sorry, just realized you edited in some replays. Thanks!!

Now that you mention being weak to rocks, and having no support, I will definantly try it out now. Thanks for the suggestions dude, I always appreciate it. If I feel it is better, I will make the changes in the OP in red and credit you on the set.

 

[ThunderBirdJack]

Well if you really want to hit those Water/Grounds and Rhyperior with Rotom-H I'd suggest HP Grass over TBolt. Volt Switch is really staple on a Choice set when you have access to it and hits everything only a little less than TBolt. HP Grass makes Rotom-H a very difficult Pokemon to wall and really destroys some would be counters. And I don't really want to destroy the idea of Specs Rotom, because it is a good strong hitter.

Now, I know that you are happy with your Crobat set but Rotom-H really does need some form of hazard clearance, so I'd suggest Defog over Taunt. It is too easy for your opponent to get SR up during the match, and Crobat is rather reliable at clearing them throughout, and even looking at just your 2 replays it was somewhat of a problem.

Lastly I'd also like to second Drain Punch over Fake Out. A tanky attacker like Kecleon could really use some recovery, especially considering Protean makes you resist a lot of predicted moves but no way to heal off that damage.
EDIT: you can't use that last suggestion because Drain Punch is only Gen 5 tutor :(

Thanks for the suggestions dude, and I like the Ussop icon. Im a big One Piece fan. HP Grass on rotom is in Iminyourclosets Charge beam set, so I will be running that.
Ive tried Defog on crobat, and it works, but it just dosentdo it for me, because crobat is such a usefull pivot on my team being able to Taunt set-up pokes or things like Foretress from setting up hazards. But Ill try out the Defog route and see how it goes. Maybe I can use Defog instead of U-turn.

 

[Iminyourcloset]

Now that you mention being weak to rocks, and having no support, I will definantly try it out now. Thanks for the suggestions dude, I always appreciate it. If I feel it is better, I will make the changes in the OP in red and credit you on the set.

Once again, no problem ;) But yeah, like I said, Charge Beam Rotom-H I think will be epic for your team. Now that I think about it, try investing some EVs in some bulk if you'd like (most likely take a bit from Spatk, as Rotom's speed tier is way too important to outspeed hera/kind/croak) because I think having a bulkier Rotom-H would be better. But try both without def investment and with--they work differently enough, and one may be better for your personal playstyle. Also, it's never a bad idea to try and fit Substitute on a set (instead of HP grass, the only move you can afford to replace) because it can really help in a pinch. However, HP grass will usually be better, but since you do have grass coverage on your team already, Sub is always an option.

Otherwise, it's a simple enough set. And while I will always take and appreciate credit, (I'm intending to be a writer, so that's a big thing for me personally,) I'm sure someone's thought something like it up before. I just thought it up mostly on my own (with suggestions because originally, when I had it on my RMT, it was crap) and I've been using it ever since.

 

[ProjectShadow]

Really good team here, only thing I would change is running Flame Orb over Toxic Orb. If Heracross is your last Poke, the toxic damage is gonna get worse and worse, whereas burn damage isn't as bad, also Guts counters the lowered attack of burn.

 

[Iminyourcloset]

Really good team here, only thing I would change is running Flame Orb over Toxic Orb. If Heracross is your last Poke, the toxic damage is gonna get worse and worse, whereas burn damage isn't as bad, also Guts counters the lowered attack of burn.

Considering the situational use of Flame Orb in that sense, I still prefer Toxic Orb. Despite what orb is being used, the end result will most likely not be too different given Heracross is his last pokemon. (You have to consider hera's fraility and the fact that it's still going to be hit) Toxic Orb is too useful for the quick 1-turn switch ins Hera is intended for, Flame Orb just takes too much initial health away.
I would only switch Toxic Orb for Flame Orb if Hera was more designated as a specific counter/check to one or more important threats, and was going to stay in for more than two turns, more often than not, but that's not the case- Hera is a general sweeper, and with it's physical frailness and lack of bulk investment, it will want to switch out anyway. Although, both orbs do the job. They just need to be used in different situations.