Other Counter That Pokemon! (Final Battle Friday @ 12 PM EST)

[ninjawhitetiger]

DISCLAIMER: This is my first post in this section so i'm sorry if i am out of format i have been lurking for a short while but i just reallly thought that this guy fit in well here and i had to throw it in

252 hp 252 atk 4 hp adamant nature
Conkeldurr@Assault vest
ability: Guts
-drain punch
-mach punch
-ice punch
-Stone edge

Ok here is my thinking on this one, Team 1 already counters team 2 pretty well defensively, however conkeldurr gives them a way to strike back offensively. Conkeldurr is gaurenteed to beat both dragonite and greninja 1v1 in both situations with guarenteed 2 hit ko's and 1 hkit ko's respectively. This is pretty close to the typical set except for stone edge. The reasoning behind this is that ferrothorn already has knock off and stone edge on conkeldurr will help it lower the amount of options that team 2 will have in the future, essentially eliminating charizard Y from the picture. it also gives the team a status catcher which the team needs as a burn really hurts the current team.

Ugh Scarf Rotom-Frost would've owned this team if only it wasn't terrible in ou
I'd Like to nominate AV conkeldurr

Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 220 HP / 36 Special Defense
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch

Evs to remove the 6.5% chance of life orbed thundurus to ohko with ice punch

Conkeldurr atm can take both Greninja and Dragonite 1v1 and win,Greninja is destroyed by a mach punch,Dragonite 3hko's it with dragon claw But conkelderr 2hkos back with knock off+ice punch-Conkeldurr can take on many meta threats such as Heatran,Greninja,Offensive Garchomp,Thundurus(252+ Atk Thundurus Bounce vs. 220 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 308-366 (75.8 - 90.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Bounce base power adjusted to 90 because i can't find fly in the calc),Bisharp,T-tar,Mind games with aegislash,Be a good status absorbs...The list goes on and on

As for the typing synergy , Ferrothorn takes flying and psychic attacks conkeldurr hates and conkeldurr get rids of heatran and friends for ferrothorn , Also conkeldurr can take on rotom-w an annoying threat in the metagame.

Alviss_Sky_TS yes

this is verry simmilar to something that i just posted ... didnt see it sorry mate (although mine is a little different;) )

 

[Red Cat]

My opinions on the nominations:

Kyurem-B: It's my nomination. I explained why I think it is good in my post.

Azumarill: It's a good counter to Team 2's selections and has good offensive presence. Its low speed makes it not too difficult for Team 2 to find a check though.

Rotom-W: Scarf + WoW is generally not a good combination. Team 2 can easily counter using its mega.

Knock Off Conkeldurr: It lacks speed and isn't that powerful which makes it easy for Team 2 to check / counter.

Stone Edge Conkeldurr: Same as above.

Gyarados: As I stated before, it is a great pick which requires Team 2 to pick a specialized check / counter.

Sylveon: It's a good counter to Team 2's picks, but it is slow which makes it easy to check. Team 2 might also be able to take advantage of Sylveon being locked into one move.

Heracross: It's a beast that is almost guaranteed to get a kill if it gets in safely. My concern is that Greninja already checks it which means Team 2 does not have to put much additional effort in its future picks to stop it.

Abomasnow: Its poor speed and many weaknesses make it too easy for Team 2 to check / counter. It also doesn't like taking U-turn from Greninja.

 

[LightningLuxray]

Rotom-W: Scarf + WoW is generally not a good combination. Team 2 can easily counter using its mega.

I think the point was to try to use Trick on one of Team 2's walls if they choose to pick one. But even then, it's pretty easy to take advantage of by switching into like Lando and then having Scarf Lando the rest of the game.

 

[Halcyon.]

Ok, time to start voting for round 5! The nominations are as follows:

Sub Kyurem-B
Assault Vest Azumarill
Scarf Rotom-W
Assault Vest Conkeldurr
DD Mega Gyarados
Specs Sylveon
All Out Attacker Mega Heracross
Mega Abomasnow
Stone Edge Conkeldurr

Not nearly as many submissions this time around, so please just PM me your top choice in the same format as the other rounds. With your choice in both the subject AND the message of your PM. The voting will close in two days.

 

[Halcyon.]

I haven't gotten nearly enough votes this round so I'm extending the voting period and asking people to send me another PM, this time voting for your top 3 choices. As it stands right now, we have a 4 way tie for first ._. I'll close the voting tomorrow night.

 

[Halcyon.]

Alright, the voting has ended! The tally was as follows:

Sub Kyurem-B: 5
AV Azumarill: 3
AV Conkeldurr: 3
Mega Gyarados: 2
Mega Heracross: 2
Stone Edge Conkeldurr: 1
Scarf Rotom-W: 1

and that means Team 1's third Pokemon is Kyurem-B! Ok, now with the beginning of Round 6, Team 2 gets to pick its next Pokemon to try and counter the picks made by Team 1 in the previous rounds. This pick should be one that hopefully can take on Ferrothorn as well as Kyurem-B, while also supporting the other Team 2 picks as well. Let's go!

 

[LightningLuxray]

Infernape @ Life Orb
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Spd / 240 Atk / 16 SAtk
Hasty Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- U-turn

Life Orb Infernape, while usually an average Pokemon at best, is actually quite a strong pick for Team 2. It's dual STABs allow it to easily OHKO Ferrothorn and giving us a good chance to OHKO Kyurem-B as well. Hidden Power Ice is there for Landorus-I, OHKOing it with 16 SpA EVs. U-Turn is used in the final slot to switch out on possible counters/checks such as Talonflame while also allowing Infernape to form an effective U-Turn core with Greninja. Overall, Infernape has helpful synergy with Greninja and can easily do massive damage to both Kyruem-B and Ferrothorn.

 

[G-Von]

Scizor@Choice Band
EV's: 252 HP/252 Attack/4SpD
Trait: Technician
Adamant Nature
-U-Turn
-Bullet Punch
-Superpower
-Pursuit

This right here was the first thing that came to my mind when I saw Kyurem-B got selected. The only thing is, I wasn't sure what item or set to really choose. Mega Scizor has additional bulk but it doesn't stop Lando from 2HKO'ing. Ferro can't do shit but it doesn't enjoy losing it's CB and K-Black doesn't want to die to a BP and only 3HKO's with Earth Power. I figured in the end Choice Band is an item that fits Scizor too well to pass up. Scizor's typing also allows it to take the Fairy, Ice, and Grass attacks that D-nite and Greninja really do not want to take, while the other two selections resists it's fire weakness. The EV spread is to maximize it's bulk and power. When it comes to its attacks, Bullet Punch and U-turn are obvious, while Superpower is there to nail Ferrothorn. In the last slot, I decided to go with Pursuit just in case Team 1 wanted to add a ghost-type pokemon somewhere down the line.

I feel like Scizor has the typing, bulk, and power to put Team 2 into a great position so that we can apply an ample amount of pressure onto Team 1 with our following pick.

 

[Red Cat]

Infernape @ Life Orb
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SAtk
Hasty Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- U-turn

Life Orb Infernape, while usually an average Pokemon at best, is actually quite a strong pick for Team 2. It's dual STABs allow it to easily OHKO Ferrothorn and giving us a good chance to OHKO Kyurem-B as well. Hidden Power Ice is there for Landorus-I, having a good chance to OHKO it (And is a guaranteed OHKO after one turn of Life Orb recoil). U-Turn is used in the final slot to switch out on possible counters/checks such as Talonflame while also allowing Infernape to form an effective U-Turn core with Greninja. Overall, Infernape has helpful synergy with Greninja and can easily do massive damage to both Kyruem-B and Ferrothorn.

16 Special Attack EVs guarantee the OHKO on Landorus while still outspeeding it. I would make the change if you are not worried about Team 1 picking another base 108 speed.

 

[LightningLuxray]

16 Special Attack EVs guarantee the OHKO on Landorus while still outspeeding it. I would make the change if you are not worried about Team 1 picking another base 108 speed.

Yeah I was thinking that, though I wasn't sure if it was worth the risk :x. But honestly if their going to choose like Terrak or something, they'd probably Scarf it, so I feel comfortable moving the EVs :]

 

[Alviss_Sky_TS]

Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Surf
- Secret Sword
- Icy Wind

Specs Keldeo is a good pick for Team 2 since it outspeeds all of Team 1 and can hit all of Team 1 for super effective damage. Landorus is easily OHKOed by Surf and Keldeo has a good chance of OHKOing Ferrothorn and Kyurem-B with Secret Sword. Hydro Pump is there to hit for more raw power to force Team 1 to make a defensive pick later and Icy Wind gives Keldeo good coverage and slows down any offensive picks Team 1 makes later.

I don't think Choice Specs Keldeo is good in this project, because if they know you are running choice, they can swich their pokemon that can't be harm by your locked moves.
I prefer Life orb Keldeo, still ohko Landorous, 2hko both Ferrothorn and Kyurem-B

Keldeo @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Surf
- Secret Sword
- Icy Wind

 

[scorpdestroyer]

Yeah I was thinking that, though I wasn't sure if it was worth the risk :x. But honestly if their going to choose like Terrak or something, they'd probably Scarf it, so I feel comfortable moving the EVs :]

Keep the Speed EVs and move the Attack EVs. Max Speed is extremely important in this project, otherwise team 1 can very well choose something like Infernape and Terrakion and guarantee to outspeed without a speed tie or a scarf. And I'm sure you'd rather force them into Scarf Terrakion than something like Life Orb Terrakion that still outspeeds you :)

 

[LightningLuxray]

Keep the Speed EVs and move the Attack EVs. Max Speed is extremely important in this project, otherwise team 1 can very well choose something like Infernape and Terrakion and guarantee to outspeed without a speed tie or a scarf. And I'm sure you'd rather force them into Scarf Terrakion than something like Life Orb Terrakion that still outspeeds you :)

Kk :)

 

[Inspirited]

I got slammed with a bunch of garbage last round so I couldn't nominate like I though I would be able to :(. I am doubling my efforts this week though so here it is:

The three on team 1 are already becoming rather nasty to deal with, which means we are doing a good job more or less. Anyways, team 2 now needs a check to Kyurem-B who will otherwise be a massive pain if it comes in on anything from Greninja that isn't U-turn. Checking it through its Substitute is the most optimal way of doing this, but we already have a Dragon / Flying type pokemon so Infiltrator Noivern isn't a good option here; not to mention it gets mauled by Ice Beam. The next options here are the Pixilate Hyper Voice abusers of which there are two. Sylveon gets utterly walled by Ferrothorn and I think it is late enough in the project to justify this nomination:

Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace (Pixilate)
EVs: 248 HP / 84 Def / 176 SpA
IVs: 0 Atk
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Calm Mind

The EVs may look strange, but they are this way for a reason. 176 SpA Modest allows Gardevoir to OHKO Landorus after 1 round of Life Orb recoil (U-turn), a switch in to Stealth Rock, or just any prior damage in general. The bulk gives Gardevoir a very good chance to survive 2 Fusion Bolts from Kyurem-B after Mega Evolving with no prior damage while still OHKOing Kube with Hyper Voice no matter what the investment and not giving a care about Kube's Substitute. Unlike Sylveon, Gardevoir actually has a way to hit Ferrothorn in Focus Blast which does 60% - 71%, always netting a 2HKO. Shadow Ball is to give Gardevoir the best overall coverage and to discourage a potential team 1 Ghost-type (Aegislash) from switching in on Gardevoir whilst Calm Mind makes Gardevoir a much more threatening entity than it already is and to help it take on Landorus better if it happens to be at full health in the end game. Downsides to Gardevoir include the use of team 2's mega slot but it is well worth the cost imo.

 

[Red Cat]

I don't think Choice Specs Keldeo is good in this project, because if they know you are running choice, they can swich their pokemon that can't be harm by your locked moves.
I prefer Life orb Keldeo, still ohko Landorous, 2hko both Ferrothorn and Kyurem-B

Keldeo @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Surf
- Secret Sword
- Icy Wind

Life Orb Keldeo fails to OHKO Ferrothorn and Kyurem-B who can OHKO Keldeo in return after LO recoil. Specs Keldeo has a good chance of OHKOing Ferrothorn and Kyurem-B and is guaranteed to survive a Power Whip or Fusion Bolt at full health. Either Team 1 will have Keldeo countered or not. The fact that it uses Choice Specs is irrelevant to countering Keldeo; it just adds an element of prediction.

 

[alexwolf]

Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 28 Atk / 112 Def / 100 SpD / 20 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Roost
- Bullet Punch
- Knock Off

The classic bulky SD set is a perfect fit for team 2. 100% counters both Kyurem-B and Ferrothorn and uses them as set up fodder, while also being immune to Ferrothorn's Knock Off and not particularly caring about Thunder Wave. In addition, Mega Scizor has great synergy with Greninja and Dragonite, as it can check and set up on anything that checks Greninja, namely Ferrothorn, Chansey, and Kyurem-B, as well as check many faster Pokemon that threaten Dragonite, such as Latios, Latias, Terrakion, Mega Gardevoir, and Deoxys-S, while Dragonite can in turn check Mega Charizard Y and Heatran for Mega Scizor, both of which are very problematic for Mega Scizor, especially Mega Charizard Y, as it has Roost to stay alive and will always be faster.

So, all in all, Mega Scizor counters both Ferrothorn and Kyurem-B, is a great bulky sweeper and check to multiple Pokemon, and has great synergy with the rest of the team, making for an excellent addition.

 

[Lether]

Magnezone (Choice Specs)
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 SpA, 192 Spe, 64HP
Modest nature
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power Fire
- Flash Cannon
- Thunderbolt

Magnezone's presence on team 2 would severely limit Ferro's thunder-wave/knock off shenanigans as it risks being trapped and 2HKO'd by HP fire if it dares to stay in after a successful switch. Greninja especially appreciates not having to play mind games around T-wave, as well as future members (probably). If Ferro decides to stay in Magnezone can switch in on anything, as its immune to T-wave and 21.5% at most from power whip or 23.5% from the first knockoff. Meanwhile if Ferro leech seeds on the switch in, it takes 80% from HP fire with specs on in the following turn and is KO'd on the next. If it knocks off the specs on the switch in it doesnt have leech seed recovery and is 2HKO'd by HP fire even after leftovers.

On top of playing mind games with Ferro/removing it, this set with 192 Speed EVs outspeeds the given Quiet Kyurem-B set and is able to guarantee the OHKO with flash cannon. Lando is similar in that it can't switch in as a specs flash cannon has a 37.5% chance to OHKO from full hp without needing rocks on the field but Lando can revenge kill whereas Kyu-B needs a sub up to beat Mag once it's in. Even if the specs get removed by Ferro's knock-off:
252+ SpA Magnezone Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-B: 314-372 (69.1 - 81.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Kyu-B can't switch in safely without being at full hp if rocks are up, and given that it's running sub it can probably only switch in once at full hp.

As Mag also has volt switch, it can form a volt-turn core with greninja (if it wants to u-turn) with Mag giving relatively slow volt switches for other team members. Admittedly at this stage in the project it may not seem that great, with lando being immune to volt-switch and Kyu being beaten by flash cannon if mag still has specs, but by the end of the project when team 1 has 6 mons volt switch is likely to have more potential targets.

 

[Random Passerby]

Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 28 Atk / 112 Def / 100 SpD / 20 Spe

Forgive my ignorance but why the awkward EV spread? 112 Def , 100 SpD and 20 Spe seems pretty arbitrary

 

[Arhan]

Forgive my ignorance but why the awkward EV spread? 112 Def , 100 SpD and 20 Spe seems pretty arbitrary

It's for it to take certain hits without OHKO,I can't remember

 

[alexwolf]

Forgive my ignorance but why the awkward EV spread? 112 Def , 100 SpD and 20 Spe seems pretty arbitrary

The bulk allows it to avoid the 2HKO from 252 SpA+ Aegislash's Shadow Ball and the 2HKO from Adamant Excadril's EQ after SR (only for the latter). 20 Speed EVs to outrun minimum Speed Heatran and rest to Attack.

 

[scorpdestroyer]

The bulk allows it to avoid the 2HKO from 252 SpA+ Aegislash's Shadow Ball and the 2HKO from Adamant Excadril's EQ after SR (only for the latter). 20 Speed EVs to outrun minimum Speed Heatran and rest to Attack.

In that case the Speed EVs could probably be put to better use, since min Speed Heatran can just run 4 Speed EVs and beat Scizor :o

If there's a threat that runs max speed within Scizor's range then it's probably worth outspeeding, otherwise the Speed can be better used in Attack

 

[alexwolf]

In that case the Speed EVs could probably be put to better use, since min Speed Heatran can just run 4 Speed EVs and beat Scizor :o

If there's a threat that runs max speed within Scizor's range then it's probably worth outspeeding, otherwise the Speed can be better used in Attack

The thing is that 20 Speed EVs help against Heatran in general, not just the possible Heatran that team 1 might choose. And remember that the team that we build is supposed to be effective in general, not only against team 1, and 20 EVs is a really small sacrifice to make Mega Scizor more effective in general.

 

[Knight of Cydonia]

These teams are never going to be used outside of this project, they are trying to be as effective as possible against each other and are going to be pretty bad against any other team. Normally sub optimal evs can be used in this project to help against the specific pokemon the other team has.

 

[alexwolf]

These teams are never going to be used outside of this project, they are trying to be as effective as possible against each other and are going to be pretty bad against any other team. Normally sub optimal evs can be used in this project to help against the specific pokemon the other team has.

That's true but each team is supposed to be effective and viable in the metagame, and the most viable spread for bulky SD Mega Scizor is the one on its main set. You are right though that given the nature of this project it is probably better to move those EVs to Attack.

 

[Red Cat]

Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 28 Atk / 112 Def / 100 SpD / 20 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Roost
- Bullet Punch
- Knock Off

The classic bulky SD set is a perfect fit for team 2. 100% counters both Kyurem-B and Ferrothorn and uses them as set up fodder, while also being immune to Ferrothorn's Knock Off and not particularly caring about Thunder Wave. In addition, Mega Scizor has great synergy with Greninja and Dragonite, as it can check and set up on anything that checks Greninja, namely Ferrothorn, Chansey, and Kyurem-B, as well as check many faster Pokemon that threaten Dragonite, such as Latios, Latias, Terrakion, Mega Gardevoir, and Deoxys-S, while Dragonite can in turn check Mega Charizard Y and Heatran for Mega Scizor, both of which are very problematic for Mega Scizor, especially Mega Charizard Y, as it has Roost to stay alive and will always be faster.

So, all in all, Mega Scizor counters both Ferrothorn and Kyurem-B, is a great bulky sweeper and check to multiple Pokemon, and has great synergy with the rest of the team, making for an excellent addition.

I do not think this is a very good pick for Team 2. First of all, you are using up Team 2's mega slot very early in this project. Second, Team 1 can pick almost any mega it wants to and counter this Mega Scizor set and give Team 2 major problems trying to counter Team 1's mega.

Magnezone (Choice Specs)
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 SpA, 192 Spe, 64HP
Modest nature
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power Fire
- Flash Cannon
- Thunderbolt

Magnezone's presence on team 2 would severely limit Ferro's thunder-wave/knock off shenanigans as it risks being trapped and 2HKO'd by HP fire if it dares to stay in after a successful switch. Greninja especially appreciates not having to play mind games around T-wave, as well as future members (probably). If Ferro decides to stay in Magnezone can switch in on anything, as its immune to T-wave and 21.5% at most from power whip or 23.5% from the first knockoff. Meanwhile if Ferro leech seeds on the switch in, it takes 80% from HP fire with specs on in the following turn and is KO'd on the next. If it knocks off the specs on the switch in it doesnt have leech seed recovery and is 2HKO'd by HP fire even after leftovers.

On top of playing mind games with Ferro/removing it, this set with 192 Speed EVs outspeeds the given Quiet Kyurem-B set and is able to guarantee the OHKO with flash cannon. Lando is similar in that it can't switch in as a specs flash cannon has a 37.5% chance to OHKO from full hp without needing rocks on the field but Lando can revenge kill whereas Kyu-B needs a sub up to beat Mag once it's in. Even if the specs get removed by Ferro's knock-off:
252+ SpA Magnezone Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-B: 314-372 (69.1 - 81.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Kyu-B can't switch in safely without being at full hp if rocks are up, and given that it's running sub it can probably only switch in once at full hp.

As Mag also has volt switch, it can form a volt-turn core with greninja (if it wants to u-turn) with Mag giving relatively slow volt switches for other team members. Admittedly at this stage in the project it may not seem that great, with lando being immune to volt-switch and Kyu being beaten by flash cannon if mag still has specs, but by the end of the project when team 1 has 6 mons volt switch is likely to have more potential targets.

I recommend changing your Magnezone set to a Sub + Charge Beam set. This way, you not only kill Ferrothorn, but use it to set Substitutes and grab some Special Attack boosts which makes it very difficult for Team 1 to counter. With the same spread, Flash Cannon OHKO's Kyurem-B at +1 and Landorus at +2 which can't kill Magnezone if it has a Substitute up.