MEGA AMPHAROS #bandwagoning
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Other OU CCAT - Round 4 - Voting
- Thread starter Nova
- Start date
- Status
She's not gonna win, but still my vote goes to Mega Gardevoir
Offensive Baton Pass Zapdos
I think it would be easy to make a great cookie cutter HO team with mons like Landorus, but I'm not sure what this project is accomplishing if we do. Zapdos seems like the most interesting build, and would definitely make future rounds interesting as we find good team mates to receive the BP.
I think it would be easy to make a great cookie cutter HO team with mons like Landorus, but I'm not sure what this project is accomplishing if we do. Zapdos seems like the most interesting build, and would definitely make future rounds interesting as we find good team mates to receive the BP.
SD Mega Absol
(DD Lando-T and CM Manaphy were others I would have liked to see, too!)
(DD Lando-T and CM Manaphy were others I would have liked to see, too!)
Agility Mega Ampharos
I think regular CM Clefable would be a good start
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
232 HP / 252 Def / 24 Spd
Bold Nature
-Calm Mind
-Flamethrower
-Moonblast
-Softboiled
Edit: okay so my reasoning behind Clef is that without recovery, Amph is easily worn down by status. Clefable sucks up burns and toxics for Amph, and Amph can't be paralyzed. Plus, they cover each other's defenses fairly well, with Steel and Dragon taken care of by each one.
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
232 HP / 252 Def / 24 Spd
Bold Nature
-Calm Mind
-Flamethrower
-Moonblast
-Softboiled
Edit: okay so my reasoning behind Clef is that without recovery, Amph is easily worn down by status. Clefable sucks up burns and toxics for Amph, and Amph can't be paralyzed. Plus, they cover each other's defenses fairly well, with Steel and Dragon taken care of by each one.
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Politoed @ Damp Rock
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Scald
- Toxic
In order to best utilize this Mega Amph's potential, I honestly think rain is the best way to go. You get very powerful Thunders and a Thundy check for the rain team, a pretty good start right there. This is just my personal favorite Politoed set allowing it to consistently switch into Char Y and Aegislash which is definitely an admirable use. Anyways yeah I think a rain route would be fun ^_^
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Scald
- Toxic
In order to best utilize this Mega Amph's potential, I honestly think rain is the best way to go. You get very powerful Thunders and a Thundy check for the rain team, a pretty good start right there. This is just my personal favorite Politoed set allowing it to consistently switch into Char Y and Aegislash which is definitely an admirable use. Anyways yeah I think a rain route would be fun ^_^
Ok, some things this set hates include:
Azumarill @ Assault Vest
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 16 HP / 240 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Play Rough
- Aqua Jet
- Knock Off
Assault Vest Azumarill does a few things for us. Firstly, it allows us to deal with the three Pokemon who are quite annoying for this set; Chansey, Hippowdon, and Sylveon. Waterfall smashed Hippowdon, Play Rough is a 2HKO ~50% of the time against standard Sylveon (it's a guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rocks, which will most likely eventually be added to the team), while Knock Off is amazing for catching Chansey off-guard should it ever want to stay in. Assault Vest is the item of choice as it allows us to more easily switch into Sylveon, though I would definitely consider Choice Band as well.
Overall, Azumarill help Mega Amphy more easily sweep thanks to its ability to beat its common counters ^.^
Some things to note if we choose Azumarill:
- SpDef Hippo
- Chansey
- Sylveon
Azumarill @ Assault Vest
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 16 HP / 240 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Play Rough
- Aqua Jet
- Knock Off
Assault Vest Azumarill does a few things for us. Firstly, it allows us to deal with the three Pokemon who are quite annoying for this set; Chansey, Hippowdon, and Sylveon. Waterfall smashed Hippowdon, Play Rough is a 2HKO ~50% of the time against standard Sylveon (it's a guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rocks, which will most likely eventually be added to the team), while Knock Off is amazing for catching Chansey off-guard should it ever want to stay in. Assault Vest is the item of choice as it allows us to more easily switch into Sylveon, though I would definitely consider Choice Band as well.
Overall, Azumarill help Mega Amphy more easily sweep thanks to its ability to beat its common counters ^.^
Some things to note if we choose Azumarill:
- Faster attackers will be needed due to Mega Ampharos and Azumarill's low Speed.
- Something to help deal with Ferrothorn will be helpful.
- Stealth Rock support will be necessary, though it should be regardless of our choice for this round.
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Gengar @ Black Sludge
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 28 HP / 148 SAtk / 80 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Shadow Ball
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
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It's pretty obvious that the Ampharos set will struggle against defensive teams, and this Gengar is pretty efficient at troubling the common defensive threats which prevent its sweep. Chansey, Clefable, Venusaur, and Ferrothorn are particularly troubling to Ampharos, and Gengar sets up shop on any one of them and gets to work. Behind a substitute, Taunt in tandem with Will-O-Wisp will discourage the aforementioned threats from doing too much, and it's always good to have a check to Clefable, something that's very threatening to offensive teams (which seems like the direction this team is heading). EVs let its subs survive min SAtk Venusaur's Giga Drain, and Clefable's Moonblast.
Virizion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Leaf Blade
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance
Someone posted a Virizion in their HO team as a wall-breaker, and I don't think it was entirely inapplicable here. It takes care of problems like Chansey, Quagsire and Hippowdon easily who might threaten Ampharos and also covers Ampharos's glaring ground weakness which IMO would be the most important weakness to cover. Whilst it does share in Ampharos's Ice and Fairy weaknesses, there's vanishingly few Fairy or Ice pokémon that can switch into this set comfortably (scoring 2HKOs on anything but +252 Def/252 HP variants of Sylveon with Leaf Blade and 2HKOing 252 HP / 0 Def Magic Guard Clefable with leftovers 54.7% of the time) - and once it's at the +2 mark there's very few pokémon that can switch into this set full stop. It has great speed, allowing it to score decent hits on a lot on the unboosted meta, and it's special defense let's it take most unboosted special hits reasonably well. Though Virizion is very weak to Talonflame, Talonflame usually can't touch Ampharos in any meaningful way.
In terms of the shared problems this set would introduce there's Mega Pinsir, Scarf Togekiss, Greninja, Landorus-T and probably some other's that I haven't mentioned - but I was going more for a creative set that provided offensive pressure, took care of some of Ampharos's key checks and was out of the ordinary. Plus it takes care of quite a few top threats such as Heatran, the Charizards (X only after a boost, or if you catch it on the switch), Excadrill, Bisharp as long as you're not caught by Iron Head, Thundurus (HP Ice fails to make much of a dint courtesy of the high special defense), Tyranitar, Rotom-W and Kyurem-B, either as a revenge kill or a check (dependent on the move your opponent uses as you switch) and typically before boosting.
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Alright, so I'm just scrolling down the viability list right now, listing common pokemon that give Ampharos trouble.
Charizard (Mega-X)
Landorus
Excadrill
Garchomp
Greninja
Mamoswine
Venusaur (Mega)
Dragonite
Kyurem-B
Landorus-T
Latios
Latias
Hippowdon
Chansey
Gardevoir (Mega)
Gliscor
Sylveon
After an Agility boost, many of these are defeated though. The list then shrinks to the following: Lando at full hp, Scarf Excadrill, Scarf Chomp, Hippowdon, Mega Venusaur, Chansey, Sylveon, Mega Gardevoir at full hp, Gliscor at full hp, and scarf Lando T. Obviously, I won't have gotten all of them, but this list is still pretty extensive. Therefore I suggest that we choose a pokemon that can be used to weaken some of these pokemon and outright destroy others. Therefore, I am suggesting, as much as I don't like to use this thing, Specs Keldeo.
Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Icy Wind
- Hidden Power [Flying]
As I have mentioned, it should have strong offensive synergy with Mega Ampharos, and has enough raw power to weaken a team so that after an Agility, Mega Ampharos can take the other members out. I am not quite sure about the set though. Scald could be used to spread burns around, while Hidden Power Flying defeats Mega Venusaur on the switch, which otherwise gives it trouble. Currently, I have HP flying, but do let me know if you think Scald is better, this is a community project after all.
Chansey
After an Agility boost, many of these are defeated though. The list then shrinks to the following: Lando at full hp, Scarf Excadrill, Scarf Chomp, Hippowdon, Mega Venusaur, Chansey, Sylveon, Mega Gardevoir at full hp, Gliscor at full hp, and scarf Lando T. Obviously, I won't have gotten all of them, but this list is still pretty extensive. Therefore I suggest that we choose a pokemon that can be used to weaken some of these pokemon and outright destroy others. Therefore, I am suggesting, as much as I don't like to use this thing, Specs Keldeo.
Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Icy Wind
- Hidden Power [Flying]
As I have mentioned, it should have strong offensive synergy with Mega Ampharos, and has enough raw power to weaken a team so that after an Agility, Mega Ampharos can take the other members out. I am not quite sure about the set though. Scald could be used to spread burns around, while Hidden Power Flying defeats Mega Venusaur on the switch, which otherwise gives it trouble. Currently, I have HP flying, but do let me know if you think Scald is better, this is a community project after all.
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Every good sweeper/win condition needs a partner in crime to successfully succeed, and I propose this to help M-Ampharos: U-Turn Greninja
Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
-Hydro Pump
-Ice Beam
-Extrasensory
-U-turn
Greninja can help Ampharos by breaking through some of the mons that give Ampharos trouble, such as Landorus, Gliscor and M-Venusaur. The set is the same as the one I used for the Counter That Pokemon Project, with the coverage allowing Greninja to cover a wide array of threats while also gaining momentum with U-Turn, which can also help bring in Ampharos with momentum and allow him to set-up.
Greninja also offers the team some initial speed(unlike M-Ampharos, who needs a turn of set-up to be able to outspeed common threats) which can help a lot, especially against HO Teams.
Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
-Hydro Pump
-Ice Beam
-Extrasensory
-U-turn
Greninja can help Ampharos by breaking through some of the mons that give Ampharos trouble, such as Landorus, Gliscor and M-Venusaur. The set is the same as the one I used for the Counter That Pokemon Project, with the coverage allowing Greninja to cover a wide array of threats while also gaining momentum with U-Turn, which can also help bring in Ampharos with momentum and allow him to set-up.
Greninja also offers the team some initial speed(unlike M-Ampharos, who needs a turn of set-up to be able to outspeed common threats) which can help a lot, especially against HO Teams.
I think we should be focusing on supporting Ampharos then just adding offense. Politoed was a really good suggestion. A Rain HO team with Bisharp is what I'm thinking ;)
Deoxys-D | Mental Herb | Pressure
Timid | 252 HP / 40 Atk / 212 Spe
Stealth Rock | Spikes | Thunder Wave / Taunt | Superpower
Deoxys-D seems like the way to go. It promotes KOs on Mega Ampharos and while also removing Bisharp turn 1 which wrecks most teams and can revenge kill Mega Ampharos (easier done with no recovery) with its powerful Sucker Punch when weakened. That's is also the only priority user that can revenge kill as it resists Brave Bird, Aqua Jet, and Bullet Punch. It even stops opposing leads with Taunt which makes MApmhy take less damage so it can sweep more successfully. It also gives us more choice during team building because Keldeo and Bisharp can put immense pressure on stall teams which seems like the problem people are discussing with things like UtilGar being discussed.
Deoxys-D | Mental Herb | Pressure
Timid | 252 HP / 40 Atk / 212 Spe
Stealth Rock | Spikes | Thunder Wave / Taunt | Superpower
Deoxys-D seems like the way to go. It promotes KOs on Mega Ampharos and while also removing Bisharp turn 1 which wrecks most teams and can revenge kill Mega Ampharos (easier done with no recovery) with its powerful Sucker Punch when weakened. That's is also the only priority user that can revenge kill as it resists Brave Bird, Aqua Jet, and Bullet Punch. It even stops opposing leads with Taunt which makes MApmhy take less damage so it can sweep more successfully. It also gives us more choice during team building because Keldeo and Bisharp can put immense pressure on stall teams which seems like the problem people are discussing with things like UtilGar being discussed.
As long as Mega-Ampharos is weak to Ground, Ice, Dragon and Fairy, Ferrothorn is one of the best choice to go along with him. He can take most Non-stab Ground and Ice move comfortably and totaly wall every Dragon and Fairy move. He is also a great hazard setter with Stealth Rock and leech seed as a recovery move. Gyro Ball OHKO some Speedy Threat who can harm Ampharos such as M-Gardevoir. Rocky helmet is there to deal with some Poke like Garchomp. Power Whip OHKO all Water/Ground poke'
Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 30 HP / 30 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SAtk / 30 SDef / 0 Spd
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Stealth Rock
- Power Whip
Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 30 HP / 30 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SAtk / 30 SDef / 0 Spd
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Stealth Rock
- Power Whip
Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Iron Tail
- Ice Punch
Lucario would be a perfect partner for Mega Ampy. Despite Mega Ampy's nice power, there are still a number of things that can wall/revenge kill it. Namely, Chansey, Sylveon, Clefable, Mega Venusaur, Dragons, Ice types, Ground types, and Stall in general. What happens to kill a majority of these? Yeah, you guessed it, Lucario.
Swords Dance lets Lucario just destroy teams, especially Stall teams, which have almost no answers to the jackal. It also sets up extremely easily on the aforementioned Chansey, non-Earthquake Mega Venu, and Ice types. Close Combat is the picked STAB, 2HKOing even bulky physical walls like Skarmory with the Life Orb boost. Iron Tail is the secondary STAB, killing the Fairy types that wreck Mega Ampy. Ice Punch beats Dragons and Ground types, which also wall Mega Ampy. It also lets Lucario beat Lando-T and Gliscor, which are also seen in Stall.
They also have pretty decent type synergy, although they are both weak to Ground. That can be addressed in a later pick, and Luke kills Ground types anyways. Overall, with a Wall Breaker to destroy stall, it is a very nice partner to Mega Amphy overall.
While I like the idea of using Lucario alongside Mega Ampharos, I'm not too sold on the set - the main thing that sets SD Lucario apart from any of the other set-up fighting-type sweepers(like SD Terrakion) is the +2 Extremespeed - as such, a set without Extremespeed defeats the purpose of using Lucario, as you could just use SD Terrakion, who has more power and more speed.
I see everyone suggesting wallbreakers, I feel if we go with rain we have numerous options that are more effective at this. Things like Taunt or mixed (Knock Off + Superpower special) Thundurus, Knock Off Tornadus-T, SD Kabutops, and even Specs Keldeo if we want do amazing jobs at pressuring stall teams. At this stage we ought to provide the most powerful form of support we can give Amph in rain and then address stall with the titans rain has to offer for this role.
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