NOC Great Idea Mafia-Game Over! Mafia, vonFiedler, and More Cowbell win!

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If ace emerald wants to say his role he can do so, I won't be outing him. I just think it is helpful that if you believe me, you know we have another clean villager and now ace knows he can trust me, or at least that I am truthful. As for why I survived the night, there are two possible reasons (other than being mafia of course). One is that they just wanted to kill lightwolf because he is a good poster. The other is to discredit me. Here is the thing though, if I was mafia, why would I claim talent scout, that would be an illogical play to make.

As for why more cowbell is mafia, I just think he has flown under the radar, attacks me a lot unjustly, has seemed to be with celever a lot. To be honest, I can't give any great reasoning, but if you read through the thread in light of what we know he just seems scummy to me.


Other people worth looking at include
Cxinlee. Hasn't done shit, although I thought walrein seemed good but inactive
Von. I like mostly, again with poke guy and shit isn't much to go off of
 

Ace Emerald

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Sorry I've been on and off all day and been typing up this post little by little.

Alright time for some guesswork. This is what the game looks like right now from my POV.

Tesung: looks especially clean from my pov because he chose to report a clean on me. Mafia might inspect me, but would validate a scum buddy. I understand this only works for my pov, but for all others just look at his behavior. Sticking the nail in swf, acting noobtown this whole game, it just doesn't strike me as scummy. Of course he could be carrying on a huge ruse in which case gg because it was very convincing. I understand the concern of "he didn't die" but consider this: Tesung has been a mafia suspect since the beginning, and getting results from him was like pulling teeth. It'd be easy to cast convincing doubt on him, while taking out LightWolf, the one who really helped pull the town together. Those casting doubt on him are currently my biggest suspects, for other reasons I will elaborate.

Obbmud: Mason is risky claim for a mafia, seems convincing. The initial suspicion cast on him was pretty circumstantial honestly.

cxinlee: I don't have much to go on here, this guy has given me very little to work with, but that lylo play of being the first one to park a vote on scum that we hadn't decided to lynch yet just seems not scummy to me.

Eliminating me, that's half the game that I feel have made claims and plays that seem substantially town. What I mean by that is I'm not talking about behavior, as all have been suspects and done weird things, but the actual moves they've made just seem town. Now I could be wrong about one or possibly two (hopefully not all 3 lol) of these players, but I'd like to focus on the other half of the game, Celever, vonFielder, More Cowbell, and sqiresquire. In this group of players, there are 1 or 2 villagers, very possibly 3 but I really hope my reads aren't that off (if it's all 4 I'll never live it down plz don't be that). But I think it's likely, due to the suspects I eliminated above, that 2 or 3 of these players are mafia.

vonFielder + Celever: these players are both currently suspecting other members of the group, which makes me think that one of the players off my suspect list is scum. Celever has always seemed very town to me, though I think he's capable of faking that commitment. Von is the one who dredged up More Cowbell, who's mostly flown under the radar. Not sure if one or both of these are scum, but I'm more interested in the remaining two.

More Cowbell + Sqiresquire: My two biggest suspects atm. Now these players haven't done anything incredibly scummy and maybe von/celever/players I temporarily removed from my suspect list, but the numbers and logic point to them. MC has defused lynches on swf, pointed fingers at Tesung today, and has stayed far off the radar. They've made long posts, helped a little, but not to the extreme extent Celever has contributed to the village, which is why they are higher on my scum reads. Like I said, I feel like a good portion, if not all, of the mafia in this group of 4, and I'm just looking at who seems scummiest in the group.

I'd like to say that this is primarily theory and guesswork. I don't want to come off like I'm driving a hard lynch on MC+SS, that's just who seem scummiest to me at the moment.
 
Okay, so looking at this, there are basically two reasons as to why I would be mafia, according to you guys: 1. I've flown under the radar, 2. I've defused a starwarsfan lynch before, and 3. I've attacked Tesung unjustly. Let me try to defend myself.

1. Yes, I've flown under the radar. Celever also pointed this out somewhere on Day 2 or 3, and at that moment, nobody cared even a little. I stated time after time that if someone wants my opinion on something or needs me to answer a question, then just ask, but nobody really did. Now, when vonFiedler says something similar, it's suddenly a huge deal and I appear on half of the players' scumlists, while so far basically everyone stated that they had a townread on me. Very weird how vonFiedler can get this going, while Celever couldn't a few days ago.
2. Again, mind pointing out where I did this? vonFiedler said I did this earlier, and Ace Emerald echoes him without hesitation, but I still don't see where this happened. It's true that I didn't hop on the swf bandwagon on Day 1, but read back on the thread and you'll see that I've had swf as one of my main targets since Day 2 or 3.
3. I still don't really see how this was unjustly; just claiming Talent Scout doesn't make you town. By now I'd probably replace Tesung as #2 on my informal vote with vonFiedler, but I still don't see Tesung as confirmed town. Also, saying someone who is attacking you is mafia is stupid, everyone can pull that card.

Look, I appreciate that vonFiedler is trying to initiate discussion, but I feel that people are much too eager to just follow what he says (about me flying under the radar, for example; when Celever said the same, nobody cared), while he in the meantime is just plain ignoring Celever half of the time. I don't trust Celever either, but that's no reason to just disregard every single post she makes.
 

vonFiedler

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More Cowbell said:
Can't say I'm too impressed by starwarsfan's responses, but I don't want to hop on the bandwagon just yet.
When I say defused, I mean something akin to slowly letting the air out of a balloon. Reducing pressure while also avoiding buddy-buddying. It's the best connection to swf I've found, and it fits the profile of the kind of mafia I'm accusing you of being.

As for getting things going, all I'm getting going is discussion. I didn't even informally vote for you. I am a bit wary of the fact that I could shift public opinion so easily here, and yet few wanted to really examine the similarly long-winded but driveless spiresquire.

I ignore Celever's post because the things she says half the time are so obviously incorrect that I can just trust you guys to sort that out yourselves.
 
When I say defused, I mean something akin to slowly letting the air out of a balloon. Reducing pressure while also avoiding buddy-buddying. It's the best connection to swf I've found, and it fits the profile of the kind of mafia I'm accusing you of being.
Fair enough, though I'd still like to point out that I've had swf as one of my main targets since Day 3. Is it weird not wanting to hop on a Day 1 bandwagon?

Also, I've been thinking about Tesung not being killed at night; killing him would have revealed his role (and probably confirm him being Talent Scout) while also giving his alliance away, which would confirm Celever as vanillager/mafia goon, and clean Ace Emerald. Obviously, the mafia doesn't want to do this, and leaves Tesung alive hoping that it turns into a discussion about his alliance and role. It did (mostly thanks to me, admittedly), and that exactly is what the mafia needs. I'm not saying I find Tesung insta-town now, but from this angle he admittedly seems more noobtown than noobmafia.
 
Day 5, LYLO Vote Count 3 (UNCHANGED)

Today is LYLO. If the village does not successfully lynch a mafia member or neutral whose win condition conflicts with theirs, they will lose the game. You MUST REACH MAJORITY to lynch.

(8) Committed the original sin
(majority is 5 votes)

1. Ace Emerald (0):
4. Celever (1): Tesung
5. Tesung (0):
6. spiresquire (0):
10. More Cowbell (0):
11. Obbmud99 (0):
12. vonFiedler (0):
15. cxinlee (0):

Not Voting: Ace Emerald, Celever, spiresquire, More Cowbell, Obbmud99, vonFiedler, cxinlee

Because I was late on the VC, I'm giving you guys a 24 hour extension.

Next Vote Count:
10:30 PM EDT (GMT-4) on May 22nd.
Deadline: 10:30 PM EDT (GMT-4) on May 23rd.

This is your friendly reminder that today is LYLO. If the village does not reach majority, they will lose the game. You have a little less then 48 hours left.

Carry on.
 
If ace emerald wants to say his role he can do so, I won't be outing him. I just think it is helpful that if you believe me, you know we have another clean villager and now ace knows he can trust me, or at least that I am truthful. As for why I survived the night, there are two possible reasons (other than being mafia of course). One is that they just wanted to kill lightwolf because he is a good poster. The other is to discredit me. Here is the thing though, if I was mafia, why would I claim talent scout, that would be an illogical play to make.

As for why more cowbell is mafia, I just think he has flown under the radar, attacks me a lot unjustly, has seemed to be with celever a lot. To be honest, I can't give any great reasoning, but if you read through the thread in light of what we know he just seems scummy to me.


Other people worth looking at include
Cxinlee. Hasn't done shit, although I thought walrein seemed good but inactive
Von. I like mostly, again with poke guy and shit isn't much to go off of
Define hasn't done shit, does it have anything to do with wall posting?
 
I've got to side with Tesung here. I've never seen a Celever post that wasn't too long to read.

For me personally, it is too soon to do an informal lynch, but that may be what it comes down in the end. Right now though I could only confidently say Celever.

I'm not sure there's a point in saying spiresquire, and I'll admit that unless we flip Celever as scum today there's not a lot of dirt on him.

Now assuming that Ace is clean, and that's a big if, then I am suddenly wary of More Cowbell. I know from an insider's perspective the consensus is that he has been very helpful, but there is always going to be at least one mafia that flies under the radar like that. I had suspected it was either Ace or Cowbell when I joined, but now through process of elimination I think More Cowbell could use a bit more scrutiny. I'm not saying I informally vote for him though, I just think we need more discussion before that point.
I can gurantee you, Mo
That implies that Ace has a pretty important power role, because otherwise, he'd be just as clear as starwarsfan--or not very much. That alone makes him a pretty decent target for the mafia, without even knowing what his role is. Unless it's something like a Hider, it might be in our best interest to know what exactly Ace does. Even if it is a Hider, he still has the potential to clear someone else.
And you're letting scum know this, why?
 
I agree that spiresquire trying to get me to reveal info is very scummy.

Anyways I propose we vote
Celever and make a scummy player be the last vite. That way, if he is lying, we got a mafia, and if it's the truth, we at least have a chance to stay in the game
 
Now, don't get me wrong, I could still see how the maf would see Tesung as a viable mislynch target. I think there's plenty of reasons why they might keep him alive outside of him being maf, such as:
-- Simply hooking him, then killing the more important threat
-- Not having any kind of mafia roles with power, therefore Talent Scout isn't a threat.
-- Blatantly framing him after he was caught saying that he was pretty sure the victim was mafia

The fact that he hasn't died yet doesn't bother me nearly as much as the fact that it's just so hard to get information from him. If he wanted people to not question his information, he shouldn't have claimed. I still have no idea why he did, really. :/ Now sure, I'm willing to overlook the difficulty of last cycle's information, but he continues the trend today. He claims he's cleared someone, but he doesn't really explain how he found out. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I think it's entirely possible that he slapped starwars into his intial reports as a bus, then he covers for Ace so that he's "clear" without the need to actually claim. I don't really see why that line of thinking is so scummy. Sure, maybe I could be accused of being a maf trying to root out power roles to kill at night, but what's the point of that if it's LYLO? All mafia needs to do is force a mislynch to win, and they won't even need a night afterwards. I just can't take Tesung's word for it if he has little to back it up.

Also, I'm not liking this whole "these people are scum because I've narrowed it down to people who haven't really done anything but aren't overly town." I guess it wouldn't bother me as much if I didn't end up on the bottom of the list both times, I'll admit, but in my own opinion, there's just too many god damn possibilities to really consider to really narrow your focus down to just a select group of people and base your opinions on that alone.


And to wrap this rambling post up, there's something that bothers me about Celever's claim, although I'll admit it's probably circumstantial. Thinking back to when we were in MYLO, if we were to mislynch Celever and a maf would hammer, wouldn't that kill said mafia and no longer give them the majority? Just a little confusing from the way I see it. My math was shitty day 3 and it isn't much better now, so I don't think I'll really bother looking too much into it. ._.

And you're letting scum know this, why?
Because, unless the mafia doesn't have a brain, it should be self-evident. If the Talent Scout's only way to clear people is to confirm whether or not they have a power role, and one clears someone, that person obviously has a power role. Just by clearing Ace alone, Tesung has made him a viable target, yet for some reason, they don't feel comfortable outing said role. And they've practically confirmed it, too. At this point, I don't think there's any real point in keeping information roles secret, and there's only a slim chance that Ace could be a Doctor. If he was one, and did what he should've night 3, the mafia would already know who he is. And as a Hider, Ace has the potential to clear the good lot of us. Why are you being so proctective of your role if the mafia already knows you're someone important?
 

Celever

i am town
is a Community Contributor
Mind pointing out where, exactly? I've checked back on Day 1, and while I said ''I don't want to hop on the swf bandwagon just yet'', I can't find a post in which I defended starwarsfan, apart from saying ''he has decent defenses''. If you check back on the thread, I've had swf as one of my main suspicions from Day 2 onward, and I think I made that quite clear.



So claiming auto-cleans you now? Out of all the claims, nothing is 100% yet; Tesung's alliance is still unknown (he may be a Mafia Talent Scout, and I still don't understand how his findings can clean Ace Emerald), nobody counterclaimed on Obbmud (though I believe LightWolf's calculations showed a 45% chance of there not being any Masons in the game, so that's not a bad claim for someone who was about to get lynched), spiresquire isn't cleaned (the hint to his role in his first post was good, but it may be a smart mafia move), and Celever's claim doesn't mean anything either.



We know you don't trust Celever much, but mind explaining why you put your second vote on me, since you haven't shown much sign of mistrust towards me before?


As for my votes, I'm putting down
1. Celever
2. Tesung

Celever's claim was much too easy; Tesung, Obbmud and spiresquire all have got something going for their claims, while Celever has nothing. I find this especially shady with Celever's new ''lynch people who haven't claimed!'' approach. Celever also says ''With LW gone you want to lead. So many things makes LW's kill good for you'' to Von, after which Celever herself steps up as a village lead. A bit backward, no? We all know LightWolf had something against Celever (yesterday as well, Celever, whether you like it or not), so having LightWolf gone doesn't sound bad for Celever, either. I know I considered Celever town earlier, but I don't like that sudden claim and attempt at leading the village for no reason.

I still don't like how Tesung was steering towards a mass claim yesterday, and how he kept postponing giving his results after claiming. It's still unconfirmed whether Tesung is village or mafia, both can have Talent Scouts (you have three times as much chance of being a mafia Talent Scout, too, statistically).

Also, can someone please explain to me how Tesung can clean Ace Emerald as a Talent Scout?
Claiming of course doesn't auto-clean me, but it also isn't like I just changed my play style. This whole game my posts are just me typing up my thoughts into a post... I even put a little disclaimer in that one post to remind you of it. Just pointing out that vonFiedler was going to start this vote at one point or another looking at his speech earlier in the day, but I just wanted to give more time, and I felt that if I claimed people would be more enthusiastic to take part in the vote. I'm not trying to lead the town by any means, and I don't know why you and von have been trying to make it sound like I have been, I merely just want to get on with this scum hunting much faster now that it is LYLO. I know that my claim doesn't mean all that much, but it's the one shinyskarm sent me. It's not in my power to change it so I claimed what I had >_>

Tesung, why didn't you respond to my post on the last page here? You just went ahead and voted for me without checking my defense...

Sorry More Cowbell, I guess I should have been a little more clear about why some people who haven't claimed are scum from my POV (thanks for the acronym Ace >_>). It's because the other claims are so damn believable! In this game we have two groups now essentially, More Cowbell, von and cxinlee - those who haven't claimed. The others are those who have and Ace was cleaned by Tesung, who could very easily be mafia, and once again, elaborate buss. Once again, I'm not trying to lead etc. I just want to move this day forward and make progress. I'm sorry about getting the facts wrong about yesterday, I posted it from memory and on that day in particular I was going through irl difficulties so I guess my brain was a bit scattered. Never mind that, though. About your point for LW dying being good for me - Yeah, it would be. I said in a previous post that if I was scum, I would WANT to kill LW but I wouldn't do it, simply because you would lynch me the next day because of the kill. This is incredibly basic strategy for the mafia to have done - kill a huge contributor to the town, frame his biggest enemy. The only people who have really been accusing me of the kill on LW (iirc) is you and von (maybe it was Tesung?), and coincidentally von is my biggest scum read. I could very easily see you guys killing LW, and then trying to sort of "shallowly" pull a lynch on me, having planned it overnight, or if there is day chat you could be laughing at my bad defences right now! :p

Note: I typed this up yesterday, and then my internet completely died. It was still dead this morning, and then it's finally working again now. Catching up.
 

Celever

i am town
is a Community Contributor
Ok guys, what is going on here? Is von the new Jesus or something? Like More Cowbell pointed out, you guys are listening to his preaching so much... If I said some of the things he said, you would take it with a grain of salt. Let's go back to the point which I've been trying to hammer into you guys all game -- Experience =/= Towniness.

Honestly rereading the early game I almost had second thoughts about you, but every time you blatantly lie and try to twist the situation yesterday to make it sound like LW and I were at each others throats really resolidifies why you're a good lynch. LW is literally my best friend on smogon, and your skewed take on the discussion we generated would be borderline offensive if it wasn't so charmingly ignorant.
Honestly this is one of the only posts he's made with decent-at-best logic for my lynch. I tried to twist the situation? Maybe in my head I misconstrued it a little (I think I said this before -_-), however you had a discussion involving larger-than-most-of-the-game's posts, and you were arguing over the lynch (except it was over my lynch, which, btw, is a bit of a backpedal.) This isn't all that different to the argument which I had with LW. Just because the posts are more concise and LW uses less caps, it's the same thing in essence from my POV.

Please, von, reiterate why I am scum to you. You admitted in that post that my early game was townie... it seems like your entire case is built upon "LW was killed which is good and you twisted an argument about me". What else do you have to add?
 

vonFiedler

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One thing that occurs to me, Tesung how are you sure that Ace Emerald is town? Did he use a role that only town has? Or did he simply NOT use a role? Cause you might think that implies he isn't mafia, but it doesn't have to.
 

vonFiedler

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And to wrap this rambling post up, there's something that bothers me about Celever's claim, although I'll admit it's probably circumstantial. Thinking back to when we were in MYLO, if we were to mislynch Celever and a maf would hammer, wouldn't that kill said mafia and no longer give them the majority? Just a little confusing from the way I see it. My math was shitty day 3 and it isn't much better now, so I don't think I'll really bother looking too much into it. ._.
This is massively problematic, and I mean that in that it's so wrong you couldn't not be aware of it. It's not even a math issue, and frankly you come across as too smart in general to play the noob card now. If we mislynch Celever, the mafia is NOT going to hammer him. They would get the first votes in and avoid this entirely. I mean I'm the first guy who should be latching onto a "oh we might as well mislynch him", and even I'm saying whaaaaat?

And then you keep harping on wanting to know what Ace's role is, as if the mafia is DEF going to kill him. Problem is the mafia has as much reason, if not more to kill Tesung who is still the talent scout. Or they could kill me for taking Lightwolf's place, you know, having just killed Lightwolf. But you want them to be more informed?

People, please tell me if I'm being unreasonable here but I think spiresquire just shot back up to the top of my scum list.
 
I don't really think you understand what I meant by that part you quoted. It didn't exactly apply to the current moment, you see. I was thinking that if it was MYLO a few days and we happened to mislynch Celever before he claimed on that particular day and mafia just so happened to hammer, we wouldn't lose if they managed to hit another town at night. Hence, not MYLO. Although frankly I'm not sure if the host generally includes these "technical" situations or not when considering MYLO. I'm NOT saying that the maf will hammer him now, because obviously they won't. It was a hypothetical, one that I'm not all too sure of.

The only real reason I see that the maf could really want to kill Tesung is if they have their own Talent Scout and don't want it to be found. Or if they have a Roleblocker who can't be discovered either, but in that case they'd just hook the guy. I think we could benefit from information much more than the mafia at this point, especially if Ace can clear people beyond just Tesung.
 

vonFiedler

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I don't really think you understand what I meant by that part you quoted. It didn't exactly apply to the current moment, you see. I was thinking that if it was MYLO a few days and we happened to mislynch Celever before he claimed on that particular day and mafia just so happened to hammer, we wouldn't lose if they managed to hit another town at night. Hence, not MYLO. Although frankly I'm not sure if the host generally includes these "technical" situations or not when considering MYLO. I'm NOT saying that the maf will hammer him now, because obviously they won't. It was a hypothetical, one that I'm not all too sure of.
Why would you even bring this up? To confuse people?
 
Because if there was a chance that we wouldn't have lost if we happened to mislynch someone, I'd think that in most cases a loss would not be declared guaranteed, which shiny did indeed say. He was pretty vague when he defined this game's MYLO, but what he did say was this:
Today is a MYLO (mislynch and lose) day. If a village-aligned player is lynched today and another village-aligned player is killed tonight, the village will no longer hold a majority vote in the lynch. However, if you No Lynch, the game is guaranteed to reach Day 4.
The vengeful townie is a town sided role though, and it does have the chance to hit scum. This would mean that it's an exception to the above. Which makes me wonder if either shinyskarm dismissed this when he declared MYLO (which now I'm assuming that he might've) or if that fact alone is enough to discredit Celever's claim. Like I said, it's a fairly minor gripe that I could've probably kept to myself. Tell me, if you were hosting this game and there was a chance of the mafia not holding majority after a mislynch, would you call it MYLO? That's why I'm confused and a tad bugged with the claim.

Anyway, Tesung, I still can't just "trust you." You've already outed Ace as a power role, and if it's informational, I say we could certainly use it.
 

vonFiedler

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Tell me, if you were hosting this game and there was a chance of the mafia not holding majority after a mislynch, would you call it MYLO? That's why I'm confused and a tad bugged with the claim.
Well YEAH. Not only are there are other players to lose by mislynching, most likely a mislynch on her would still lose the game.
 
Day 5, LYLO Vote Count 4 (STILL UNCHANGED)

Today is LYLO. If the village does not successfully lynch a mafia member or neutral whose win condition conflicts with theirs, they will lose the game. You MUST REACH MAJORITY to lynch.

(8) Committed the original sin
(majority is 5 votes)

1. Ace Emerald (0):
4. Celever (1): Tesung
5. Tesung (0):
6. spiresquire (0):
10. More Cowbell (0):
11. Obbmud99 (0):
12. vonFiedler (0):
15. cxinlee (0):

Not Voting: Ace Emerald, Celever, spiresquire, More Cowbell, Obbmud99, vonFiedler, cxinlee

Deadline: 10:30 PM EDT (GMT-4) on May 23rd.

Get lynching, you only have 24 hours left and village loses without majority on a scum.

Carry on.
 
Spiresquire it already may have been a misplay to have told everyone ace has a power role, i am not gonna share any specifics, if he decides it is in his best interest he can do so, and the fact that you want this info so bad is looking scummy.

Anyways my proposal.

Me, ace, obbmudd, and one other vote celever immediately. If more cowbell then doesn't vote within a few hours, he is admitting he is scum. This gives us a much higher chance of getting a scum, as if celever is lying we get him, and if he is telling the truth we still get a decent shot.

Also, so it doesn't seem like I'm tunneling more cowbell with no great reason,ci would be fine with most people being in that slot as long as it isn't ace or me, whoever we come to a consensus on.
 

Ace Emerald

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Alright, how does everyone feel about a More Cowbell lynch? He's shown up on a lot on a lot of people's preference lists, and I just feel like he's a safer bet than Celever, who's been a very active participant, or someone like cxinlee, who just hasn't behaved like a mafian imo. Process of elimination has lead me to him, and it seems like others may agree.

Also I'd like to say that my ability is definitely village exclusive, and I don't really want to reveal it for the moment.
 
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