Jellicent is not a good Pokemon and Vaporeon is uncommon.
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Other Creative / Underrated Sets Thread (Read the thread, NO SHITTY GIMMICKS)
- Thread starter ginganinja
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It woud indeed, but remember, Freeze Dry is Special whereas Knock Off is Physical, and Physical Swine is best swine. Not to mention, Knock would hit Jellicent even harder than Freeze Dry, and Vaporeon takes neutral damage from STAB EQ. Also, both of those pokemon have dropped in usage quite a bit recently. I rarely come across many.
You are missing the point. The point is that you only need minimal SpA investment, 16 EV's, to have a shot at 2HKO'ing Rotom-W. You still have heavy investment in physical attack to do damage with Earthquake and Icicle Crash / Icicle Spear. Knock Off may be a physical move, but it isn't affecting any targets that Mamoswine would normally come across. It could be helpful taking away Skarmory's Leftovers recovery, but hitting it with an Icicle Crash on the switch is much better, especially if you can 3HKO (one hit on the switch) with just one flinch.
Earthquake hits harder, even if they are fully physically defensive. And as others said, they are not that common.
240 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 208-246 (44.8 - 53%)
16 SpA Life Orb Mamoswine Freeze Dry vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Vaporeon: 156-187 (33.6 - 40.3%)
240 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Jellicent: 191-226 (47.2 - 55.9%)
16 SpA Life Orb Mamoswine Freeze Dry vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Jellicent: 143-172 (35.3 - 42.5%)
Unless Freeze Dry is 4x effective (like vs. Gyarados or Quagsire), or Earthquake is less effective than normal (like vs. Rotom-W), usually Earthquake is the stronger move. The only other exceptions are rare, and don't net a lot more damage. Basically, against pokemon that have a lot of physical bulk, like max defense Slowbro, or if you run an expert belt set, then a SE Freeze Dry creeps closer to a neutral EQ.
One of my favorite builds:
Porygon 2
Bold
Eviolite
Def 252/SpD 252/ HP 4
Ice Beam
Thunderbolt
Toxic
Recover
This is a standard bolt beam Porygon 2, but the distribution of EVs allow it to take a tremendous beating and excel against a lot of foes on its own.
Here's a example of a team that was just kicking the crap out of me...until this little guy went in and took over. http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-123210451
One highlight - my Porygon 2 takes a Slaking Hammer Arm and only takes 63% damage.
Porygon 2
Bold
Eviolite
Def 252/SpD 252/ HP 4
Ice Beam
Thunderbolt
Toxic
Recover
This is a standard bolt beam Porygon 2, but the distribution of EVs allow it to take a tremendous beating and excel against a lot of foes on its own.
Here's a example of a team that was just kicking the crap out of me...until this little guy went in and took over. http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-123210451
One highlight - my Porygon 2 takes a Slaking Hammer Arm and only takes 63% damage.
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Slaking in OU is not a reason to prove something.
It's also brought down a number of Dragonites, Hydreigons, Rotom Ws, etc...and can Toxic stall with the best of them. The Slaking example was just to demonstrate how hard this build can be hit and keep going.
Err, this replay isn't a good one. I don't even know how, but that Tyranitar was running no Atk Investment, look:
0- Atk Tyranitar Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 124-146 (26.7 - 31.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
And it hit your Vaporeon for 15% damage, idk how that's possible. And Dusclops and Slaking in OU? Umm, what lol? You also didn't switch at all which is kinda weird, and its only in the 1150+ range. I'm not too sold on this set, as HP investment seems really important, but idk.
Also, iirc, that's a fairly standard set for Porygon2, as it is typically
Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Bold Nature
252 HP/252 Def/4 SpD
-Ice Beam
-Discharge/Thunderbolt
-Toxic/Thunder Wave
-Recover
Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Bold Nature
252 HP/252 Def/4 SpD
-Ice Beam
-Discharge/Thunderbolt
-Toxic/Thunder Wave
-Recover
The Shellder Smuggler
Banned deucer.
Ok so, I've done a lot of thinking about this, and I've come up with a fancy set:
Skarmory
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
Nature: Impish
EVs: 224 HP / 252 Def / 24 SpD
- Protect
- Toxic
- Sky Drop
- Roost
Yeah, cancer miracle machine imo. Anyways, look at this bish. This is a Toxic Stall Skarmory, just certainly not one you guys have already seen. Anyways, before getting on to the reason this set is creative, I'll talk about everything in order. Leftovers is a great move for any Stall Pokemon, so that's why it's there. Sturdy grants the ability to survive at least one hit. Impish is a great nature as it helps max out Physical Defense. 224 HP EVs allow Skarmory to switch into SR and get Sturdy after two Leftovers recovery. 252 Def maxes out Physical Defense. 24 SpD helps tank unboosted Special Attacks. Now here is why the moves are fucking insane. Toxic and Sky Drop basically work hand in hand, as well as Protect. Toxic, of course, starts that Toxic damage thing. Protect, well, adds on to it. Now, this is why Sky Drop is being used. Skarmory usually outslows, so using Sky Drop makes the opponent unable to attack for a turn, but adds a free damage boost to the Toxic damage. So basically Protect + Sky Drop gives a free 3 damage turns for Toxic. And to be awesomer, Roost covers any damage you've had.
This is a really cool set, just watch out for Magnezone and you're golden.
Skarmory
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
Nature: Impish
EVs: 224 HP / 252 Def / 24 SpD
- Protect
- Toxic
- Sky Drop
- Roost
Yeah, cancer miracle machine imo. Anyways, look at this bish. This is a Toxic Stall Skarmory, just certainly not one you guys have already seen. Anyways, before getting on to the reason this set is creative, I'll talk about everything in order. Leftovers is a great move for any Stall Pokemon, so that's why it's there. Sturdy grants the ability to survive at least one hit. Impish is a great nature as it helps max out Physical Defense. 224 HP EVs allow Skarmory to switch into SR and get Sturdy after two Leftovers recovery. 252 Def maxes out Physical Defense. 24 SpD helps tank unboosted Special Attacks. Now here is why the moves are fucking insane. Toxic and Sky Drop basically work hand in hand, as well as Protect. Toxic, of course, starts that Toxic damage thing. Protect, well, adds on to it. Now, this is why Sky Drop is being used. Skarmory usually outslows, so using Sky Drop makes the opponent unable to attack for a turn, but adds a free damage boost to the Toxic damage. So basically Protect + Sky Drop gives a free 3 damage turns for Toxic. And to be awesomer, Roost covers any damage you've had.
This is a really cool set, just watch out for Magnezone and you're golden.
I've been thinking about a Scarf Lando-I set. Would HP Rock or Stone Edge be better?
Short answer: Stone Edge, for special Lando-I, Earth Power + Focus Blast give exquisite coverage, and HP Rock receives no boost from Sheer Force.
While Landorus-T is generally seen as the superior choice scarf user (with access to Intimidate, and, sexy 140 base attack and a unique speed tier if 91), Landorus-I is used as a stop to +1 base 100s such as MegaZardX. Most have found some use for Landorus-I in the following set:
Landorus (M)
Ability: Sand Force
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SAtk
Naive Nature
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Stone Edge / Hidden Power Ice / Grass Knot
I would have put Sheer Force, but you're much better off pairing this with a Tyranitar + Sand Rush Excadrill and putting further pressure on their threats; it will take folks a minute to realize that you aren't a standard wallbreaker with U turn (basically, until they see the absence of life orb recoil on your first u turn).
While you'd mostly be picking things off with Earthquake, or inflicting Chip Damage via U-Turn, the special attacking options have some interesting prospects, despite the minimal investment
4 SpA Landorus Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Quagsire: 372-440 (94.4 - 111.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
Alright, I am actually going to go for a special set:
Landorus (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 Atk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature
- Rock Slide/U-Turn/Stealth Rocks/Whatever coverage move you wnat
- Psychic
- Earth Power
- Explosion
This thing can make things die.
End of story
jkjk. Psychic is to kill musketeers, which would normally outspeed you, EP is spam move, Explosion is the tried and true "fuk misclick" strategy, and Rock Slide can be used to kill tflames, u turn for momentum, stealth rocks for fast rocks, you get the drill. What do you guys think?
I'm not sure the optimal spread on this thing is, but the thing about this is that it is very customizable.
Landorus (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 Atk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature
- Rock Slide/U-Turn/Stealth Rocks/Whatever coverage move you wnat
- Psychic
- Earth Power
- Explosion
This thing can make things die.
End of story
jkjk. Psychic is to kill musketeers, which would normally outspeed you, EP is spam move, Explosion is the tried and true "fuk misclick" strategy, and Rock Slide can be used to kill tflames, u turn for momentum, stealth rocks for fast rocks, you get the drill. What do you guys think?
I'm not sure the optimal spread on this thing is, but the thing about this is that it is very customizable.
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The Shellder Smuggler
Banned deucer.
A naive nature is best
The EVs are also not optimal. A better spread is 252 HP / 80 Def / 48 SpD, go ahead calc anything.
252 SpA Abomasnow Giga Drain vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 54-64 (17.3 - 20.5%)
252 Atk Abomasnow Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 51-60 (16.3 - 19.2%)
252 SpA Abomasnow Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 48 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 64-76 (17.1 - 20.3%)
252 Atk Abomasnow Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 80+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 58-70 (15.5 - 18.7%)
Also you have 128 EVs left over.
The best mixed defensive spread for Porygon2 is 252 HP / 136 Def / 120 SpD with a Bold nature (because math, I won't explain it here unless someone asks) assuming you want to reduce physical and special damage equally.
252 SpA Abomasnow Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 120 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 60-72 (16 - 19.2%)
252 Atk Abomasnow Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 57-67 (15.2 - 17.9%)
I just got to say that this set is incredibly predictable and Skarmory has a lot of sets that it can pull of better and this set is completely walled by steel types. Once you have revealed Sky Drop, your opponent most likely wont be stupid and fall for the trick twice. :SOk so, I've done a lot of thinking about this, and I've come up with a fancy set:
Skarmory
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
Nature: Impish
EVs: 224 HP / 252 Def / 24 SpD
- Protect
- Toxic
- Sky Drop
- Roost
Yeah, cancer miracle machine imo. Anyways, look at this bish. This is a Toxic Stall Skarmory, just certainly not one you guys have already seen. Anyways, before getting on to the reason this set is creative, I'll talk about everything in order. Leftovers is a great move for any Stall Pokemon, so that's why it's there. Sturdy grants the ability to survive at least one hit. Impish is a great nature as it helps max out Physical Defense. 224 HP EVs allow Skarmory to switch into SR and get Sturdy after two Leftovers recovery. 252 Def maxes out Physical Defense. 24 SpD helps tank unboosted Special Attacks. Now here is why the moves are fucking insane. Toxic and Sky Drop basically work hand in hand, as well as Protect. Toxic, of course, starts that Toxic damage thing. Protect, well, adds on to it. Now, this is why Sky Drop is being used. Skarmory usually outslows, so using Sky Drop makes the opponent unable to attack for a turn, but adds a free damage boost to the Toxic damage. So basically Protect + Sky Drop gives a free 3 damage turns for Toxic. And to be awesomer, Roost covers any damage you've had.
This is a really cool set, just watch out for Magnezone and you're golden.
The Shellder Smuggler
Banned deucer.
You can always switch out, and it pretty much doesn't give a shit about physical attacks, so there's nothing to worry about except for steel types/heal bellers
Heres mine. It catches a lot of people off guard.
Talonflame@ Power Herb/ White Herb
Nature: Hasty
Evs: 252 Atk/ 4 SpA/ 252 Speed
-Acrobatics
-Flare Blitz
-Solar Beam
-Overheat
This does need some tweaking of the EVs. I use this on a sun team so I may opt for power herb but white herb is great outside of sun. This has destroyed Barbaricle, Skarmory, Rotom-W, etc.
Talonflame@ Power Herb/ White Herb
Nature: Hasty
Evs: 252 Atk/ 4 SpA/ 252 Speed
-Acrobatics
-Flare Blitz
-Solar Beam
-Overheat
This does need some tweaking of the EVs. I use this on a sun team so I may opt for power herb but white herb is great outside of sun. This has destroyed Barbaricle, Skarmory, Rotom-W, etc.
While it may catch people off guard, that may not always be a good thing. The important thing to remember about creative/underrated sets is, how are they better than another set, and more importantly, how does this set defeat the usual one's counters?
Not sure why you mentioned Barbaracle when no one uses him in OU.
Im just saying that one time this person had what looked like a great counter to talonflame that was actually easily OHKOed (in repsonse to the Baracle comment). And it is useful, as overheat will always kill standard Skarmory in sun once sturdy is broken. Also, Talonflame can attack Aegislash with 252 HP / 4 SpD with a 18.8% to OHKO with overheat without risking the attack drop from kings shield. Above all, Solar Beam has a guranteed 2HKO after stealth rocks against 252 HP/ 4 SpD Rotom-W. All calculations assuming 156 Special Attack EVs and the sun being up.
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252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 270-320 (80.8 - 95.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
???
RE: Mixed Talonflame
Talonflame @ Life Orb
Trait: Gale Wings
EVs: 136 Atk / 164 SAtk / 208 Spd
Rash Nature
-Brave Bird
-U-turn
-Fire Blast
-Hidden Power [Ground]
This set does a pretty decent job of luring in and heavily damaging or KOing some of Talonflame's best counters/checks. With the given SpA EVs, Talonflame is guaranteed to 2HKO 252/4 Hippowdon 100% of the time with Fire Blast after Stealth Rock, while also 2HKOing Gliscor, Landorus-T, and 252/0 Aegislash (who isn't exactly a Talonflame counter, but at least this set can avoid King's Shield). Meanwhile, HP Ground is a guaranteed 3HKO against specially defensive Heatran and a small chance for a 2HKO after Stealth Rock, while other sets are cleanly 2HKOed. You could run max SpA to almost guarantee that specially defensive Heatran will be 2HKOed after Stealth Rock, but seeing as how priority Brave Bird is Talonflame's forte, I prefer to maintain as much physical power as possible.
This is not my set. jesusfreak94 from Serebii made this. But if you want mixed Talonflame, this is probably your best bet. Getting past arguably the best Talonflame counter (TTar takes a chunk from U-Turn, Terrakion is 2HKOed by Brave Bird, Rotom is easily worn down/EXTREMELY predicatable, and that there are very few rock types outside of maybe Rhyperior in OU.) is what youre gonna want to aim for, and it doesnt rely on a one time use move that needs a particular weather for a second.
Talonflame @ Life Orb
Trait: Gale Wings
EVs: 136 Atk / 164 SAtk / 208 Spd
Rash Nature
-Brave Bird
-U-turn
-Fire Blast
-Hidden Power [Ground]
This set does a pretty decent job of luring in and heavily damaging or KOing some of Talonflame's best counters/checks. With the given SpA EVs, Talonflame is guaranteed to 2HKO 252/4 Hippowdon 100% of the time with Fire Blast after Stealth Rock, while also 2HKOing Gliscor, Landorus-T, and 252/0 Aegislash (who isn't exactly a Talonflame counter, but at least this set can avoid King's Shield). Meanwhile, HP Ground is a guaranteed 3HKO against specially defensive Heatran and a small chance for a 2HKO after Stealth Rock, while other sets are cleanly 2HKOed. You could run max SpA to almost guarantee that specially defensive Heatran will be 2HKOed after Stealth Rock, but seeing as how priority Brave Bird is Talonflame's forte, I prefer to maintain as much physical power as possible.
This is not my set. jesusfreak94 from Serebii made this. But if you want mixed Talonflame, this is probably your best bet. Getting past arguably the best Talonflame counter (TTar takes a chunk from U-Turn, Terrakion is 2HKOed by Brave Bird, Rotom is easily worn down/EXTREMELY predicatable, and that there are very few rock types outside of maybe Rhyperior in OU.) is what youre gonna want to aim for, and it doesnt rely on a one time use move that needs a particular weather for a second.
But I'm not banded, meaning I can switch moves making my Talonflame more versatile. But there is one problem. My Talonflame basically needs the sun to unlock its full potential. So my set really has 252 Atk / 156 SpA / 100 Spd. Ill fine tune it later. I could also run life orb and brave bird for more offense with the downside of shorter longevity. Not that Talonflame lives that long most of the time.
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1. Insanelegend, I would recommend editing your previous post instead of double posting, as it creates clutter
2. Another good (and used) Tflame set is either Sharp Beak/Expert Belt to feign Choice Band, and then run WoW, so as to burn the common counters of Terrak/Tar/Hippo/Rhyperior (although admittedly 0 Atk burned Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 320-378 (107.3 - 126.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
2. Another good (and used) Tflame set is either Sharp Beak/Expert Belt to feign Choice Band, and then run WoW, so as to burn the common counters of Terrak/Tar/Hippo/Rhyperior (although admittedly 0 Atk burned Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 320-378 (107.3 - 126.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
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