oh i didnt know kie and hol were both fleets i didnt have access to the map when i sent actions
oops
oops
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Board Game Diplomacy - Game Over
- Thread starter Ampharos
- Start date
OH WAIT SHIT WHAT HOW IS IT 2 AM
DEADLINE?!?!?!?!?!
Quagsires - England:
F English Channel Supports F North Africa - Mid-Atlantic Ocean
F Holland - Belgium
A London Hold
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean - Portugal
F North Africa - Mid-Atlantic Ocean
Da Letter El - France:
F Gascony - Mid-Atlantic Ocean (*Fails*)
F Gulf of Lyon - Marseilles
A Tyrolia - Piedmont (*Disbanded*)
F Western Mediterranean - Spain(sc)
billymills - Germany:
A Venice Supports A Vienna - Tyrolia (*Void*)
Agape - Russia:
A Berlin - Silesia (*Bounce*)
A Brest - Paris
F Denmark - North Sea
F Kiel - Holland
A Moscow Supports A Ukraine
A Munich Supports A Piedmont - Tyrolia
A Piedmont - Tyrolia
A St Petersburg - Livonia
A Ukraine Supports A Warsaw - Galicia
A Warsaw - Galicia
starwarsfan - Turkey:
A Armenia - Rumania
F Black Sea Convoys A Armenia - Rumania
A Bohemia - Silesia (*Bounce*)
A Constantinople - Bulgaria
A Galicia Supports A Bohemia - Silesia (*Disbanded*)
F Ionian Sea Supports F Tunis
F Rome Supports F Tyrrhenian Sea
A Rumania - Budapest
A Sevastopol Supports A Armenia - Rumania
F Smyrna - Aegean Sea
A Trieste - Venice (*Fails*)
F Tunis Supports F Tyrrhenian Sea
F Tyrrhenian Sea Supports F Tunis
A Vienna - Bohemia (*Fails*)
Fall 1908 ends 5/26 at 11 PM CDT (supposedly).
DEADLINE?!?!?!?!?!
Quagsires - England:
F English Channel Supports F North Africa - Mid-Atlantic Ocean
F Holland - Belgium
A London Hold
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean - Portugal
F North Africa - Mid-Atlantic Ocean
Da Letter El - France:
F Gascony - Mid-Atlantic Ocean (*Fails*)
F Gulf of Lyon - Marseilles
A Tyrolia - Piedmont (*Disbanded*)
F Western Mediterranean - Spain(sc)
billymills - Germany:
A Venice Supports A Vienna - Tyrolia (*Void*)
Agape - Russia:
A Berlin - Silesia (*Bounce*)
A Brest - Paris
F Denmark - North Sea
F Kiel - Holland
A Moscow Supports A Ukraine
A Munich Supports A Piedmont - Tyrolia
A Piedmont - Tyrolia
A St Petersburg - Livonia
A Ukraine Supports A Warsaw - Galicia
A Warsaw - Galicia
starwarsfan - Turkey:
A Armenia - Rumania
F Black Sea Convoys A Armenia - Rumania
A Bohemia - Silesia (*Bounce*)
A Constantinople - Bulgaria
A Galicia Supports A Bohemia - Silesia (*Disbanded*)
F Ionian Sea Supports F Tunis
F Rome Supports F Tyrrhenian Sea
A Rumania - Budapest
A Sevastopol Supports A Armenia - Rumania
F Smyrna - Aegean Sea
A Trieste - Venice (*Fails*)
F Tunis Supports F Tyrrhenian Sea
F Tyrrhenian Sea Supports F Tunis
A Vienna - Bohemia (*Fails*)
Fall 1908 ends 5/26 at 11 PM CDT (supposedly).
Can we call this then, I don't have regular access to a computer anymore
yea lets just call it
Proposing a 2-way tie with England, screw rules.
I and Quagsires will win this game after 10 years of trench warfare against Turkey. I fully intend to exploit the weaknesses in pseudo-stalemate lines, ramming against them until either the probabilities are met or a turkish NMR happens.
If no tie is met, requesting deadline enforcement or a sub.
I and Quagsires will win this game after 10 years of trench warfare against Turkey. I fully intend to exploit the weaknesses in pseudo-stalemate lines, ramming against them until either the probabilities are met or a turkish NMR happens.
If no tie is met, requesting deadline enforcement or a sub.
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Also i would like to say I probably would have stabbed when quags and agape stabbed but was fairly busy irl so I couldn't talk to swf and agape had conveniently written actions for a grand alliance so I just went with those without really looking at them lol. Anyway gg to agape and swf who actually won this game
yeah, gg everyone, shame i misread dle and quags (since i haven't been subbed that tie is fine)
success!
GG, everyone!
As for my actions towards the end (EDIT: Of my being in the game):
If I say I'll do something, then do the opposite, sure, that's an attack. But next time I say in advance how something is not an attack and do it, then if you start a damn stupid border war with me that diverts my time, attention, and resources, then if I get stabbed to the point of victory chances being negligible, then I'm going to just spend everything I can to spite you. Betrayal, I should have seen coming, and I knew the score when I signed up. Pointless border wars over a perfectly reasonable move that I explain in advance... just plain disgust me.
As for my actions towards the end (EDIT: Of my being in the game):
If I say I'll do something, then do the opposite, sure, that's an attack. But next time I say in advance how something is not an attack and do it, then if you start a damn stupid border war with me that diverts my time, attention, and resources, then if I get stabbed to the point of victory chances being negligible, then I'm going to just spend everything I can to spite you. Betrayal, I should have seen coming, and I knew the score when I signed up. Pointless border wars over a perfectly reasonable move that I explain in advance... just plain disgust me.
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The only one who actually was serious about a border war was you. Your refusal to talk with me afterwards during your build phase is what sunk you, I never intended a full out war with you at all, as I tried to spell out to you after your moronic build in Rome instead of Naples. This is not out of a lack of my being active either as I was definitely on and active at the time. Then after you make your build in Rome I spell out very clearly that you will be stabbed and you refuse to act on this knowledge when it should have been clear that there was nothing I could do to you in a war in the south besides waste both of our time. This loss is on you and you alone.
You're the one who overreacted to my simple move first, and I then had to defend myself against your reaction, and then figured that since the war had started, I might as well finish it, since I figured I had Turkey and Russia backing me on it. The refusal to act: I already said that I should have seen it coming, but they're not the ones who diverted my resources and attention with the war.
EDIT: the overreaction was eng -> mao combined with mar -> lyo. I literally could not risk chancing that, and HAD to muster everything I could at you to keep your tremendous advantage in that area at bay.
EDIT: the overreaction was eng -> mao combined with mar -> lyo. I literally could not risk chancing that, and HAD to muster everything I could at you to keep your tremendous advantage in that area at bay.
So instead of talking out things with a player who stands to gain little from a war with you, you decide to trust and work with a player who was in an obvious position to stab. Makes sense
As I said: I should have seen it coming. But from MY perspective:
1) I had plenty to gain if Turkey backed me up like I thought he would
1a) He had seemingly gone along with my plan to stab Russia
2) You were diverting my resources from anything else, including attention. If I'd had the resources for other things, (EDIT: Forgot to put this here, added it now) then I would have made myself more well-defended instead of attacking, and might have applied myself better to other ventures at that time.
3) I BEGAN by talking to you, and THEN you moved in attack. Oh, and let's look at the LOGS, shall we? We'll see that I told you I wasn't attacking, and you moved in a way that forced me to respond to a potential attack.
Summarizing what came before: I explained how tunis -> wes was not an attack, because it would be followed by wes -> tys... because it would just force you to be somewhat defensive for that one year. You would have lost nothing. And as you proved, you had the power to do me serious harm in the Western Mediterranean, which proves I was 100% right that I needed a bit of a better position.
[20:59:07] <daletterel> mar has nowhere else to move
Bullshit. To the first, what did you use your army in the peninsula for... Spain? You could have used the fleet. We'd have both had 1v1 fleets in the region, which I feel is perfectly reasonable. Or you could have held that one turn, and moved it the next. That would have left us even, and both wary of an attack. To the second, I already rebutted that.
Recap: LITERALLY my only purpose in moving to WES was for a 1-year maneuver between the two of us to get us into a more stable stalemate position. I told you this, and you had better things to do than fight me, as you've pointed out. Then you moved in, and instead of doing more than idly plotting how I could get Russia and Turkey to weaken each other at their own expense, I had to instead prevent you from attacking.
By the time you opened negotiations again with:
Which I shot down in the next line, was because I was quite confident that Turkey and Russia were going to assist me sufficiently to destroy your attack. If I'd been right (yes, I know I was wrong and should have seen it), then I would have gained quite a lot from the war with you, since it had reached that stage.
4) When you told me I was getting stabbed... let's look at the CONTEXT, cited above. You flat-out said you were taking Tunis, which was the final straw for me. (Now we're in uncited territory, but I can cite it if desired) Then you said the guy who'd just agreed to help me beat you back and secure my border from your attack, who had been working with me since turn one, was actually going to stab me. Enemy: Hey, you're best friend is actually an enemy! Yeah, like I was going to believe that.
5) Little to gain? You could have gained Tunis and held it reasonably well. Did gain it, actually. And from there, you KNOW I'd want to secure Italy's traditional center.
6) Not relevant to what you just said, but to something before. I never said I wasn't mostly to blame for my defeat, just that of people NOT me, you were the one I felt most to blame. Turkey and Russia were just doing a juggernaut that I had a chance to see coming, and should have, and Germany was just trying to hang on with that last center. The war with you, however... that blocked me from setting up a stable defense on any line but ours, so... yeah.
7) I didn't open negotiations after the beginning because I was confident my allies would help for the reward, etc. You only opened them near when I was stabbed, and you told me you were going to take one of my centers when you did so.
So, yeah. I can post more logs on request, but I tried to keep them concise.
Oh, and AFTER I was stabbed, my own defeat was pretty much inevitable, because of how artistically it was set up, as well as Billy's attack.
But while I lost the game, at least you did, too. Spiteful, vindictive, and petty, yes. But I didn't have much else to do, and playing a losing battle when I could speed up someone else's victory seemed a poor use of my time. And why not give a tribute to such an artistic (towards me, anyway) diplomat, than to help Turkey against someone I was annoyed at?
1) I had plenty to gain if Turkey backed me up like I thought he would
1a) He had seemingly gone along with my plan to stab Russia
2) You were diverting my resources from anything else, including attention. If I'd had the resources for other things, (EDIT: Forgot to put this here, added it now) then I would have made myself more well-defended instead of attacking, and might have applied myself better to other ventures at that time.
3) I BEGAN by talking to you, and THEN you moved in attack. Oh, and let's look at the LOGS, shall we? We'll see that I told you I wasn't attacking, and you moved in a way that forced me to respond to a potential attack.
Code:
01[21:09:22] <Aura_Guardian> it's a 1-year defense, not a 1-season
[21:10:16] <daletterel> anyway i would have been willing to tell you about austria's plans
[21:10:17] <daletterel> oh well!
[21:10:19] <daletterel> good luck!
01[21:10:42] <Aura_Guardian> good luck with your paranoia alienating people who actually aren't agressive
Code:
01[20:56:30] <Aura_Guardian> quick thing before LoL starts: see how a move to WES is, as I said, NOT an attack?
01[20:56:38] <Aura_Guardian> and here you are, moving to attack me
01[20:57:08] <Aura_Guardian> your BS detector needs recalibrating
[20:58:58] <daletterel> how did i move to attack you
[20:59:07] <daletterel> mar has nowhere else to move
01[20:59:09] <Aura_Guardian> eng -> mao
[20:59:22] <daletterel> because i felt you were going to wes -> mao
01[20:59:23] <Aura_Guardian> can ONLY be used against me
[20:59:32] <daletterel> which leaves my stuff open
01[20:59:35] <Aura_Guardian> then why not bounce me NEXT season?
01[20:59:44] <Aura_Guardian> if I'd done thatBullshit. To the first, what did you use your army in the peninsula for... Spain? You could have used the fleet. We'd have both had 1v1 fleets in the region, which I feel is perfectly reasonable. Or you could have held that one turn, and moved it the next. That would have left us even, and both wary of an attack. To the second, I already rebutted that.
Recap: LITERALLY my only purpose in moving to WES was for a 1-year maneuver between the two of us to get us into a more stable stalemate position. I told you this, and you had better things to do than fight me, as you've pointed out. Then you moved in, and instead of doing more than idly plotting how I could get Russia and Turkey to weaken each other at their own expense, I had to instead prevent you from attacking.
By the time you opened negotiations again with:
Code:
[18:27:59] <daletterel> is there much to talk about between us for diplo
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01[18:28:00] daletterel is <IP address, etc. snipped>
01[18:28:00] daletterel on #diplo
01[18:28:00] daletterel using triton.az.us.synirc.net The Messenger of the Sea
01[18:28:00] daletterel End of /WHOIS list.
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01[18:31:02] <Aura_Guardian> sorry, was in lol
[18:31:08] <daletterel> np
01[18:31:49] <Aura_Guardian> ... mostly about how this could possibly have been avoided if you hadn't tried to maintain a significant advantage in the western mediterranean area
01[18:32:00] <Aura_Guardian> I only wanted to reduce it to a small one
[18:32:21] <daletterel> I did reduce it, I removed Mao from the equation
[18:32:55] <daletterel> meanwhile you built in rome instead of Naples for some reason
01[18:33:13] <Aura_Guardian> I built there to counter the attack I feared was coming from you
01[18:33:27] <Aura_Guardian> since you only moved mao this year
[18:36:56] <daletterel> I suppose but I thought it was fairly obvious I couldn't afford to move Mao into a full offensive against you
[18:37:00] <daletterel> but regardless
01[18:37:16] <Aura_Guardian> just like my move to Wes previously?
[18:37:18] <daletterel> I feel like a full out offensive between is right now won't go well for either of us
[18:38:09] <daletterel> I'm taking tun but is rather not get into a protracted war against you and you can't afford to with turkey being that strong and holding ion4) When you told me I was getting stabbed... let's look at the CONTEXT, cited above. You flat-out said you were taking Tunis, which was the final straw for me. (Now we're in uncited territory, but I can cite it if desired) Then you said the guy who'd just agreed to help me beat you back and secure my border from your attack, who had been working with me since turn one, was actually going to stab me. Enemy: Hey, you're best friend is actually an enemy! Yeah, like I was going to believe that.
5) Little to gain? You could have gained Tunis and held it reasonably well. Did gain it, actually. And from there, you KNOW I'd want to secure Italy's traditional center.
6) Not relevant to what you just said, but to something before. I never said I wasn't mostly to blame for my defeat, just that of people NOT me, you were the one I felt most to blame. Turkey and Russia were just doing a juggernaut that I had a chance to see coming, and should have, and Germany was just trying to hang on with that last center. The war with you, however... that blocked me from setting up a stable defense on any line but ours, so... yeah.
7) I didn't open negotiations after the beginning because I was confident my allies would help for the reward, etc. You only opened them near when I was stabbed, and you told me you were going to take one of my centers when you did so.
So, yeah. I can post more logs on request, but I tried to keep them concise.
Oh, and AFTER I was stabbed, my own defeat was pretty much inevitable, because of how artistically it was set up, as well as Billy's attack.
But while I lost the game, at least you did, too. Spiteful, vindictive, and petty, yes. But I didn't have much else to do, and playing a losing battle when I could speed up someone else's victory seemed a poor use of my time. And why not give a tribute to such an artistic (towards me, anyway) diplomat, than to help Turkey against someone I was annoyed at?
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were you even in this game
Noting the overlooked possibility of France going F Mao C A Spa-Bre in Fall 1902. I don't think there are any dead set implications from any moves; rather the diplomacy was rough, I think. I and Turkey might also have just a little bit influenced France and Italy to be antagonistic towards each other...
Also thanks for describing the stab as artistic!
Also thanks for describing the stab as artistic!
If you had been smart enough to see and recognize the stab, I would have pushed to offer support in exchange for Tunis most likely in a "do this or die" manner (which would have been true). From there you could have sold me on splitting turkey between us or at least attempting to. Instead you drank the turkey Russia kool aid and did not react correctly to my threats to attack you which were merely that: verbal threats. I had no better move for either eng or Mao than to scare you into working with me. Instead you failed to recognize the stab and felt threatened over losing Tunis for a year or two at best and discarding the only possible ally you could have bar Russia deciding to try to stab, which agape wasn't in much of a position to do.