Metagame NP: RU Stage -1: Message to Oglemi, Nails, and Honko (VENOMOTH STOLEN FROM US))

[Kawaii Kyouko]

About Braviary, what can Gligar do to Braviary even?

Standard Braviary sets can't get past it, but there is one major issue that gets overlooked here, which is a set that was one of the most common sets in Gen V NU for Braviary, and without a doubt the most dangerous, and that was SubBU Braviary.

Braviary @ Leftovers
Trait: Defiant
EVs: 252 HP / 192 SDef / 64 Speed
Careful Nature
- Substitute
- Bulk Up
- Roost
- Brave Bird

This monster could set up on Regirock and defeat it, if one used Regirock as an attempt to counter Braviary, and one of the primary reasons for the rise of Golem instead of Regirock, because it had Rock Blast.

SubBU Braviary can be toxiced and rendered weak.
I personally run a Gligar speedcreeped to toxic SubRoost Moltres, so Braviary gets caught in that range as well.

But yes, if Braviary gets going, then shit's about to go down.

 

[EonX]

Aasgier I know SubBU Braviary was super cool in BW NU and it wasn't exactly a terrible thing in BW RU either (highly underrated imo) but there's a pretty serious issue it has here in XY: Rhyperior. When one of the absolute best Pokemon in the tier absolutely shits on you, that's not a good thing. Any Rhyperior that runs Rock Blast (read: most of them) is stopping SubBU Braviary in its tracks. While it can set up on any Gligar that doesn't use Speed investment, fact of the matter is that some do and you run the risk of being hit with Toxic before you can get your Sub up. There's also the less common Golbat, which can hit you with Toxic no matter what as it simply dgaf due to Infiltrator. While I wouldn't say SubBU Braviary is unviable, it certainly isn't nearly as good as it was in BW NU, or even BW RU for that matter, just due to the fact that one of the absolute best Pokemon in the tier stops it cold. And unlike BW NU, Rhyperior is already the premier Rock-type in XY RU. If you really want to do something to Gligar, just come in on a Defog and wreck its shit with a +2 CB Brave Bird and call it a day.

 

[Expulso]

I've heard a lot of talk about Sticky Web teams in RU. I was trying to make a Sticky Web team of my own recently, but there aren't many great offensive ghosts. However, I had an epiphany. Looking through the viablility rankings, out of the 14 Pokemon in S, A+ and A ranks, only 3 resisted Water, and Sharpedo hardly counts. Therefore, I decided to use this monster:

Jellicent @ Choice Specs
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 28 HP / 252 SAtk / 228 Spe
Timid Nature
- Water Spout
- Shadow Ball
- Surf / Hydro Pump / Scald
- Ice Beam / Energy Ball / Hidden Power Fighting
​

Water Spout + coverage absolutely demolishes the majority of the RU tier. Don't believe me? Have some calcs:
252 SpA Choice Specs Jellicent Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 177-208 (51.4 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Jellicent Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Cobalion: 361-426 (111.4 - 131.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Jellicent Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Sharpedo: 277-327 (98.5 - 116.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Jellicent Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Alomomola: 274-324 (51.3 - 60.6%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Jellicent Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Druddigon: 240-284 (67 - 79.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Jellicent Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Gallade: 174-206 (51.1 - 60.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Jellicent Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Sceptile: 252-298 (89.3 - 105.6%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Jellicent Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 182-216 (46.1 - 54.8%) -- 55.9% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Jellicent Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Virizion: 178-210 (54.9 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Jellicent Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 116+ SpD Amoonguss: 212-250 (49 - 57.8%) -- 54.3% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

Literally every Pokemon in the meta gets 2HKOd. EVERYTHING.

In conclusion, Choice Specs Jellicent is an incredibly potent threat that is ridiculously powerful and fairly neglected; pls make my day and use it! :) I recommend you use it with a Wish passer and Rapis Spin / Defog support.

 

[aVocado]

What are your takes on offensive (LO) Xatu, guys? It seems to have good coverage with Psychic/Heat Wave/GK, good utility with its ability and Roost which is nice.

 

[cacturne]

What are your takes on offensive (LO) Xatu, guys? It seems to have good coverage with Psychic/Heat Wave/GK, good utility with its ability and Roost which is nice.

Offensive xatu is underrated as fuck and it checks a lot of shit in the current meta. Honestly if your team needs good utility but cant sacrifice offensive presence you should all give xatu a look :]

 

[EonX]

Expulso , Specs Jellicent does seem a bit intriguing. Iirc, it was decently viable in BW OU. That said, I see no reason to run Surf on Specs Jellicent. Hydro Pump provides more power, and if you're concerned about accuracy, I'd be more than willing to give up 10 BP in exchange for the chance to burn opposing physical attackers looking to take advantage of Jellicent's lackluster physical bulk (when uninvested) I do think it has a place on Web Offense as a spinblocker, but it's something I do want to try out some myself before giving a definitive answer on it.

As for Xatu, it honestly is something I don't see much in general to start with tbh. Maybe I'm just not battling the right people, but I just don't see too often. This is probably due to the fact that there's plenty of other Psychic-types in the tier (Reuniclus, Cresselia, and Delphox) while we aren't really short on utility Flying-types either (Moltres, Gligar, Golbat, Braviary) It may have a place, but Xatu just seems to have a hard time standing out in this meta as it stands.

 

[newfren]

I ran offensive Xatu on my bird team and as soon as I stopped thinking it could take hits as well as the 252hp/252def+ version it started doing some real work. Seriously hurts most of the hazard setters in the tier with grass knot/heat wave.

 

[Sound]

Expulso, I think I played you on the ladder, as I do remember a SW team that used specs Jelli. It put in a lot of work, especially because, as you said, water resists are rare and Jelli can handle the common ones. There's also the surprise factor, since I was expecting a wall. I will definitely vouch for Specs Jelli's effectiveness.

 

[astromund]

Talking about underrated things that are cool under webs:

Meloetta @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 148 HP / 252 SAtk / 108 Spd
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Shadow Ball
- Substitute
- Calm Mind

Sub+CM Meloetta isn't the first thing to come to mind when you think "web abuser", but I think web support is what really makes it shine. It gets perfect neutral coverage in just two slots and a great base speed that allows it to blow past most of the -1 meta (up to base 115s like Ambi and Cinccino with this set) with just 108 EVs. Its huge special bulk allows it to get up a fast calm mind against even the most monstrous of special attackers, avoiding the 2HKO from everything not named Zoroark or Yanmega. It's also an extremely powerful stallbreaker, able to set up on defensive staples like Amoonguss, Alomomola (pls no knock off) and Aromatisse with ease and bulldoze through teams with that massive base 128 special attack. Shadow ball's 20% chance for a spdef drop gets boosted up to 40% by serene grace, which makes it harder for Reuni and Cress to beat you in CM wars. Sub makes an excellent buffer against sucker punch users and allows you to set up on defensive threats with impunity, outspeeding every min-speed threat in the meta.

Some calcs:

Hide

252 SpA Choice Specs Delphox Fire Blast vs. +1 148 HP / 0 SpD Meloetta: 133-157 (35.1 - 41.5%) -- 79.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252+ SpA Meloetta Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Delphox: 284-336 (97.2 - 115%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO


252 SpA Life Orb Moltres Fire Blast vs. 148 HP / 0 SpD Meloetta: 185-218 (48.9 - 57.6%) -- 50.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Moltres Fire Blast vs. +1 148 HP / 0 SpD Meloetta: 122-146 (32.2 - 38.6%) -- 4.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252+ SpA Meloetta Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Moltres: 274-324 (85.3 - 100.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO (dead to LO recoil)


252+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. +1 148 HP / 0 SpD Meloetta: 160-189 (42.3 - 50%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252+ SpA Meloetta Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Exploud: 309-364 (75 - 88.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


252+ SpA Slowking Scald vs. +1 148 HP / 0 SpD Meloetta: 66-78 (17.4 - 20.6%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252+ SpA Meloetta Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 176-208 (44.6 - 52.7%) -- 22.3% chance to 2HKO (still setup bait even if it carries psyshock, plus the chance of a spdef drop makes King an even more unstable response)

Thanks to Mel's two uncommon weaknesses, not even the hardest special attackers in the tier can check it unless they have a dark or bug STAB. Even then, Mel can live any attack from the likes of Zoro, Clawitzer or Yanmega and demolish them with a powerful hyper voice. In short, Meloetta's awesome combination of speed, bulk and power make it extremely effective under webs, try it.

 

[EonX]

I honestly think Meloetta is an underrated Pokemon in general tbh. I never really see it much on the ladder, but it's really damn versatile. Short of using AV Slowking, AV Meloetta is the best response to Delphox in the tier and there's so many other things it can do. astromund does a good job of highlighting SubCM Meloetta and I know I've mentioned AV Meloetta before, but those aren't the only sets you can use on it. If you just want an all-out CM sweeper, Meloetta has the coverage and power to do it, though you may want paralysis or Web support since base 90 Speed isn't the best out there (though it's certainly enough to give defensive teams headaches) Choice Specs is also a legitimate option thanks to that amazing Special Attack and great coverage. Relic Song can turn Meloetta into a dangerous physical sweeper via its Pirouette Forme. What Meloetta-P loses in bulk, it gains in pure sweeping potential with base 128 Attack and 128 Speed, making it ridiculously hard to revenge kill without a Scarfer or priority user (and it can't be Sucker Punch)

Perhaps the best part about Meloetta is its ability to go defensive. Not many Pokemon in the tier can pull off offensive AND defensive sets effectively, but Meloetta can. With great base 128 Special Defense in Aria forme (AKA her base forme) an odd typing that leaves it with few weaknesses, and some cool support options in Heal Bell and Perish Song, Meloetta can take on the role of a special wall. Granted, this gets large competition from Aromatisse, but you'll be using Meloetta for Perish Song, higher Speed, and the ability to hit through Substitutes via Hyper Voice while still being able to provide Cleric support. So, how have you guys used Meloetta thus far? Are there any sets I missed? What does it like to work with?

Viable Sets

Assault Vest
SubCM
Offensive CM
Specially Defensive
Physical Sweeper (Pirouette Fomre via Relic Song)
Choice Specs

 

[Mew2]

I posted this set in the underrated sets but since that thread is pretty much dead I will post it again on here.

Cobalion @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance
- Magnet Rise


Am I crazy? Nope magnet rise is a great move on our legendary goat. Why do you ask? Because if screws up most of its counters and uses them as set up fodders like Drudiggon, Rhyperior (without D-tail) and gligar. Sooner than later your opponent finds out that he will need to fodder at least one Pokemon to stop this monster. This set works wonders vs teams using the Aromatisse/ Escavalier/ Gligar core as it can fully counter each member. Zoroark is a wonderful partner because it can deal with Doublade and Slowking, two of the best Cobalion's counters.

 

[Kawaii Kyouko]

I honestly think Meloetta is an underrated Pokemon in general tbh. I never really see it much on the ladder, but it's really damn versatile. Short of using AV Slowking, AV Meloetta is the best response to Delphox in the tier and there's so many other things it can do. astromund does a good job of highlighting SubCM Meloetta and I know I've mentioned AV Meloetta before, but those aren't the only sets you can use on it. If you just want an all-out CM sweeper, Meloetta has the coverage and power to do it, though you may want paralysis or Web support since base 90 Speed isn't the best out there (though it's certainly enough to give defensive teams headaches) Choice Specs is also a legitimate option thanks to that amazing Special Attack and great coverage. Relic Song can turn Meloetta into a dangerous physical sweeper via its Pirouette Forme. What Meloetta-P loses in bulk, it gains in pure sweeping potential with base 128 Attack and 128 Speed, making it ridiculously hard to revenge kill without a Scarfer or priority user (and it can't be Sucker Punch)

Perhaps the best part about Meloetta is its ability to go defensive. Not many Pokemon in the tier can pull off offensive AND defensive sets effectively, but Meloetta can. With great base 128 Special Defense in Aria forme (AKA her base forme) an odd typing that leaves it with few weaknesses, and some cool support options in Heal Bell and Perish Song, Meloetta can take on the role of a special wall. Granted, this gets large competition from Aromatisse, but you'll be using Meloetta for Perish Song, higher Speed, and the ability to hit through Substitutes via Hyper Voice while still being able to provide Cleric support. So, how have you guys used Meloetta thus far? Are there any sets I missed? What does it like to work with?

Viable Sets

Assault Vest
SubCM
Offensive CM
Specially Defensive
Physical Sweeper (Pirouette Fomre via Relic Song)
Choice Specs

I've personally tried out a physically defensive Melo, and I really like it. I use it for cleric support AND as a win condition, and it forms a pretty damn solid core with Aromatisse (which now can toxic instead of Aromatherapy) and SubRoost Moltres. It's special bulk is still very strong, making it into a mixbulky mon. But if only it had instant recovery ;_;

 

[New Breed]

BIRD (Braviary) (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 168 Spd / 88 HP
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Return
- Superpower
- U-turn

Okay so I know Molk posted about Sticky Web a while ago but I was too lazy to make a post until now. CB Braviary is actually really underrated right now, being able to do stupid shit like 2HKO Gligar after SR and also having a chance to 2HKO standard Rhyperior with Superpower. U-turn suddenly becomes much more dangerous on this set due to very few solid CB Braviary counters in the tier and the fact that CB U-turn actually does decent chip damage to many common switch-ins(eg: u-turn doing 20% to rhyperior putting it easily into superpower 2HKO range). So yeah just in general this thing is an absolute monster and should get alot more usage that it currently has atm.

I was running this on a Sticky Web team in conjunction with Choice Specs Analytic Magenton and LO Hitmonlee to provide spin support and it has actually been really effective at just destroying offense and wearing down the more bulky teams you find. Braviary also has the added benefit of being able to use Defiant to get an attack boost and basically get a free kill on anything lol, something that is extremely useful vs Defog teams which are probably the worst possible matchup for Sticky Web. For the EVs I was running enough Speed to outrun max speed base 95's after a Sticky Web since I had Hitmonlee so outspeeding Zoroark really wasent a problem, if you're using this outside of web you can probably just run max Speed to at least speed tie with other neutral base 80's.

So yeah can't be bothered to write anymore so use thing thx

 

[Kawaii Kyouko]

BIRD (Braviary) (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 168 Spd / 88 HP
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Return
- Superpower
- U-turn

Is it 168 HP or 168 speed? Cuz I know for a fact that 88 HP hits 218 speed, and yknow max speed 95's hit 212 after SW. 168 hits 238 speed, which outpaces max speed base 110's after Sticky Web.

Although if you want to run 168 speed, i'd gimp it up to 188 to outpace max speed 115's after SW instead.


That is, unless my math is completely wrong.

 

[Delibird is Amazing]

jolteon is now ru yay

Molk EDIT: Hold On, this np thread is gonna be locked soon in place of a new one :).

 

[GlassGlaceon]

yay an underwhelmig raikou clone, whoopie doo !_!

All jokes aside though, I'm not really that excited for jolteon. although base 110 s.atk is good, he doesn't even really have much to abuse it with, so I'd say a specs set would be the best way to go

gota go faztr ;_; (Jolteon) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Hidden Power [Water]
- Signal Beam
- Volt Switch
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Hidden Power [Ice]

that's pretty much how far ur gonna get with this thing
Tbh apart from speed i dont understand the hype
crappy movepool is really what puts the nail on the head though

like
rotom c walls without signal beam
lanturn wall w/o hp grass
registeel unsurprisingly walls
no volt switch no momentum
no coverage, no kills
Jolteon has too much 4MSS for my liking
but im prolly wrong ah and am just biased cuz other eeveelution
but w/e
screw the h8rs

 

[Molk]

new np thread is ready, locking!

i'll make a post in the new NP thread when the suspect ladder is officially up