Doubles Viability Rankings (C- Votes if u care lol)

[Bughouse]

My B+ mons, may or may not have time to get back to this later...

Other mons I think could be B+ but don't care as much about

 

[Nollan]

B+ Noms (a lot already mentioned but I don't care deal with it)

- Unique typing give it a lot of utility against a lot of Pokemon (Landorus-T, Latios, Conkeldurr, Heatran, etc), and it has very potent coverage in its STABs alone. A Belly Drum set can be really lethal with the right support, tho Choice Band and LO (or other boosting items like Mystic Water) sets are also strong picks. But basically Aqua Jet rocks (CB Knock Off is pretty troll too, though)!

- Really underrated TR setter. It can also spread WoW around and has a massive base 145 SpA stat. A middling 80 Spe means it does not need TR to function at all, and Substitute Chandelure has been growing more and more popular. Also Infiltrator is awesome (don't mess with Chandy my SubTran friends).

- Amazing late-game tank similar to Ferrothorn, but even better (imo) since it packs WoW and Phantom Force, both of which are great for stalling. Additionally it can function as a potent TR setter. It is also very physically bulky, which in the given metagame is very useful (best Kanga check there is if you ask me). You might say it has a lot of weaknesses, but its support movepool + great bulk (Talon LO BB only OHKOs about 50% of the time against 252 / 0 set which is pretty impressive; with 252 / 0 a Heatran Heat Wave rarely OHKOs and do take note Gourgeist will almost always be bulkier than this) gets the job done easily, plus it has a lot of great resistances/immunities.

- A great anti-meta typing along with base 108 Spe and base 129 SpA allows it to check common threats such a Landorus-T and Heatran. Icy Wind, Quick Guard, and Taunt are all great support moves as well. There isn't much else going for it but honestly that's all it needs.

- Hey guys look at some of your teams. I can bet a lot of them have something like 4 or 5 members that Mamo can hit for super-effective damage. Mamoswine has an amazing offensive typing, solid bulk, and Thick Fat helps alleviate its Heatran (and other Fire-type) issues to an extent. The fact that a team of the 6 most common Pokemon would have really big problems with Mamoswine outside of the mighty Rotom-W speaks for itself really.

- Great anti-Talonturd and anti-CharYZard pick, not to mention unlike Heatran (which I view as big competition for it) it doesn't have Ground-type weakness (bar Excadrill). Great at spreading status around be it WoW or TWave, as well as just nuking things with Overheat. The higher usage of Grass-types due to sleep clause being removed has also given it extra reason to be used instead of Rotom-W, which is great for it.

- Wanted for mass destruction of teams. Talented at screaming. Make sure to kill on sight. Yeah that's really the general idea as Pixilate Hyper Voice just kills so many things and the fact it bypasses Substitute and Rage Powder/Follow Me makes Sylveon a threat simply because it has this move. Trolls like Heatran can be taken care of with HP Ground, and Choice Specs, Calm Mind, and even Substitute sets can do work in matches. Honestly, the fact only one (ok +1/2 I guess for srk's semi-nom) other person has mentioned Sylveon up to this point astounds me.

-EDIT-

Some things I was borderline on

 

[BlankZero]

ill fukn kill u

Best mon ever S Rank pls.

 

[Pocket]

Can we still promote general rank shifts? If so, promoting Jirachi to be moved up from B to A rank. Its utility and defensive potential almost rivals Togekiss. Jirachi is one of the most prominent Follow Me users that Doubles has to offer, and a criminally underused one at that. Just like Togekiss, it can offer the complete triad of misdirection (Follow Me), speed control (Icy Wind, T-Wave, Trick Room), and flinch hax madness (Serene Grace-fortified Iron Head). I think it is the only Pokemon with a powerful combination of Trick Room and Follow Me :O. It also offer other cool utility moves, such as Helping Hand, Safeguard, and Stealth Rock.

Granted its weakness to Heat Wave, Earthquake, Shadow Ball, and Knock Off/Dark Pulse are significant setbacks. However, you cannot deny its amazing resistances that allows it to wall the likes of Mawile, Kangaskhan, Deoxys-A, and Kyurem-B. Its resistance to spread moves, such as Rock Slide, Pixilate Hyper Voice, and Blizzard all comes in handy, while Jirachi retaliates with a super-effective Iron Head. Its 100 base Speed comes in handy for flinchhaxing Breloom, Mamoswine, etc or setting up Safeguard before Breloom or Venusaur can spam Spore.

Jirachi is a strong Follow Me counterpart of Togekiss that is more suitable than Togekiss in handful of situations. For instance, I would much rather have Jirachi serve as a Follow Me partner for Kyurem-B, Azumarill, and Rain teams than Togekiss, which would only compound the team's weakness to Rock Slide, Electric-type moves, and Mega Venusaur/Ferrothorn, respectively (the partnership is mutual, with Jirachi's partners eliminating Ground- and Fire-types). A counterpart of Togekiss should definitely be in A rank.

 

[Joycdonnell]

hum, I understand the drop of Tyranitar from the S rank but not should be on the A+ section instead of A one?
In any case, he is not in alphabetical order in the main one lol.

 

[termi]

B+ noms:

Azumarill: Mostly because of how scary it is at +6 (which isn't hard to get to with some Rage Powder support - Azumarill pairs stupidly well with Amoonguss, too). Has neat typing.
Ferrothorn: Walls shit, especially rain teams. Not preparing for it means you're gonna have one hell of a time wearing it down. Strong Gyro Ball and annoying Leech Seed don't make it a sitting duck like Mr. No. 1 Rain Counter
Jirachi: Speed control + Follow Me always does well, faces competition from Togekiss, but has Twave and a different set of resistances (as well as more physical bulk) to differentiate itself. Annoying mon :[
Keldeo: is poni
Kingdra: Stronger SS sweeper (with spread move) than Ludicolo in exchange for bulk and versatility, B+ sounds good to me.
Klefki: Should choke on a massive donger imo. Objectively best screener around, Prankster Twave makes it an even bigger (BAN ME PLEASE). Kind of a sitting duck though.
Mamoswine: bigpig
Salamence: Intimidator w/ Tailwind and nice power, altho usually falls just short imo :[ Still a rlly neat pick for any Tailwind team though.
Suicune: This thing doesn't fucking die, so basically you either Taunt it or it gets up a Tailwind, guaranteed. Not that strong, but strong enough to manage.
Sylveon: This thing always wrecks me goddamn
Zapdos: Great typing, enough bulk to get up a Tailwind most of the time, is strong too.

It's 2 AM so srry for shitty reasoning idc tho also there's prolly more that might fit but 2lazy also don't want to make B+ bigger than my dong

 

[Mizuhime]

This probably isn't the correct time for this post, but i'd like to make a few suggestions regarding viability ranks. Recently in Doubles I have been testing a team based around Hail, the general opinion has been that Mega Abomasnow was a terrible Mega. I disagree with this statement 100%. Mega Abomasnow has access to 2 amazing offensive types, and those types give it some very good resistances but at the same time give it some terrible weaknesses. 90/132/105/132/105/30 for stats mean that Abomasnow has very good offensive potential as well as having very good bulk if you can protect it from it's weaknesses, which isn't hard to do. Pokemon like Landorus-t, Hitmontop, Scrafty, Terrakion can directly threaten a very large list of Pokemon that scare Abomasnow. The best thing Abomasnow can offer to a team is Hail. Hail provides 100% accurate Blizzards, something underused this gen, but is still extremely dangerous. Many underused Pokemon can use powerful Blizards and also take out a lot of Pokemon that threaten Abomasnow, such as Landorus-t. These reasons and more are why I would like to nominate Abomasnow for B Rank.

Another Pokemon that I believe should be moved up to B rank is Darkrai. Of course Darkrai would be potentially broken with Dark void, but looking past this fact it's still a very fast, and very strong special attacker. Dark-type STAB got a boost this gen, and this paired with the fact that Darkrai has a few other interesting move that makes it very strong and very annoying to deal with. Focus Blast can OHKO Ttar, Sludge Bomb is going to do a chunk to every Fairy, and the move i've been using Blizzard. Hits both opponents, etc etc. Darkrai is a Pokemon that doesn't see much usage, but really should. With so many intimidate Pokemon, and so many ways to check physical attackers, Darkrai isn't very hard to support and it can do plenty of damage in a short amount of time.

 

[finally]

This probably isn't the correct time for this post, but i'd like to make a few suggestions regarding viability ranks. Recently in Doubles I have been testing a team based around Hail, the general opinion has been that Mega Abomasnow was a terrible Mega. I disagree with this statement 100%. Mega Abomasnow has access to 2 amazing offensive types, and those types give it some very good resistances but at the same time give it some terrible weaknesses. 90/132/105/132/105/30 for stats mean that Abomasnow has very good offensive potential as well as having very good bulk if you can protect it from it's weaknesses, which isn't hard to do. Pokemon like Landorus-t, Hitmontop, Scrafty, Terrakion can directly threaten a very large list of Pokemon that scare Abomasnow. The best thing Abomasnow can offer to a team is Hail. Hail provides 100% accurate Blizzards, something underused this gen, but is still extremely dangerous. Many underused Pokemon can use powerful Blizards and also take out a lot of Pokemon that threaten Abomasnow, such as Landorus-t. These reasons and more are why I would like to nominate Abomasnow for B Rank.

Another Pokemon that I believe should be moved up to B rank is Darkrai. Of course Darkrai would be potentially broken with Dark void, but looking past this fact it's still a very fast, and very strong special attacker. Dark-type STAB got a boost this gen, and this paired with the fact that Darkrai has a few other interesting move that makes it very strong and very annoying to deal with. Focus Blast can OHKO Ttar, Sludge Bomb is going to do a chunk to every Fairy, and the move i've been using Blizzard. Hits both opponents, etc etc. Darkrai is a Pokemon that doesn't see much usage, but really should. With so many intimidate Pokemon, and so many ways to check physical attackers, Darkrai isn't very hard to support and it can do plenty of damage in a short amount of time.

im surprised you didn't mention heatran as an aboma partner. they cover each others weaknesses fairly well and only share fighting in common. and fighting is resisted by many follow me/rage powderers :].
also physical aboma is legit. eq beats opp heatran if you outspeed the heatran for some reason
scarf aboma is cool
sash hp fire if you are a 90's kid

 

[Pocket]

Supporting Abomasnow to B rank of course - this has always been my stance lol. I find it silly for such a potent threat to be buried in C rank -_- Blizzard spam under Trick Room coming off of 132 base SpA is no joke.

Darkrai is ite - it can also pair well with Sleep inducers and make use of its Bad Dreams for some nasty residual damage. Pairs particularly well with Mega Venusaur, which resists Fighting-types and can dispose most Fairies. I find Darkrai to be a good Substitute user (Dark Pulse | Substitute | Protect | Focus Blast / Thunder Wave / Hypnosis)

 

[Anty]

After having experience with darkrai, it should be B-rank. It is so versitile, amazing coverage, dark/fighting/poison/electric/ice, it can run a decent sub set although you have to watch out for fairy hypervoices, it has every status, even will-o-wisp is good and it even gets priority (base 90 atk isnt bad, 4 atk sucker punch does more than 252 spatk dark pulse to mega gard, but you do have to run -def nature). It has a lot bulk, 70/90/90 is very nice as a special dark type it doesnt receive too much competition (megagar i guess).

As for b+ noms:

Sylveon- specs hypervoice spammage along with decent bulk and can tank any specia hits
Gardevoir- Mega hypervoice spammage - great spdef, and ability to smack amoo with psychic stab
Azumarril- Can sweep a team with a bit of support or just hit hard
Keldeo- Nice support, very strong, great dual stabs, better at baiting talonflame bb
Chandelure- Versatile, can run tr or even willo for bisharp. Heat wave spam is nice along with shadow ball
Jirachi- Follow me support is great. Basically a togekiss that can help different mons set up.

Otherwise land-i, ferro and suicune get a mention, but i dont think they are quite there yet (landi is very under rated)

 

[Roxer]

I'd like to nominate Braviary for D-Rank.

• Awesome ability in the form of Defiant.
• Has Tailwind
• Good coverage
• Good attack, even better with Choice Band.
• Kinda bulky

Unfortunately

• Outclassed by Tornadus and somewhat outclassed by Talonflame.
• Slow as fuck
• Weak to common offensive types (Electric, Ice, Rock)
• Easily revenge killed.
• No priority

 

[Audiosurfer]

I'd like to nominate Braviary for D-Rank.

• Awesome ability in the form of Defiant.
• Has Tailwind
• Good coverage
• Good attack, even better with Choice Band.
• Kinda bulky

Unfortunately

• Outclassed by Tornadus and somewhat outclassed by Talonflame.
• Slow as fuck
• Weak to common offensive types (Electric, Ice, Rock)
• Easily revenge killed.
• No priority

Lol d minus rank is silly, just leave it unranked since it isn't v good

 

[LightningLuxray]

Lol d minus rank is silly, just leave it unranked since it isn't v good

I think he meant D Rank, but just added a dash so it said D-Rank.

Also I feel as though it's worthy of D, I mean we already have a lot of shit in there anyways, and Defiant + Tailwind is definitely a niche. (I understand Torn also has this, but it can't go physical without having to resort to itemless Acrobatics and isn't as bulky.)

 

[Audiosurfer]

But torn is still better enough that it leaves no niche for braviary. Torn's acrobatics is almost as strong as a brave bird w/ no recoil, it's got the speed to be more threatening than braviary, and has a superior move pool (with like taunt and knock off for example). Item less torn isn't even bad or anything, for example it's been used in spl to good effect. While braviary is technically bulkier, it loses out on a fighting resist and also is slow enough that it will end up taking more hits than tornadus anyways. I'd like to trim down these ranks anyways so the fact that there are things there doesn't faze me. But yeah it just isn't a good mon. Idk why you'd use it when there are so many other birds.

 

[LightningLuxray]

But torn is still better enough that it leaves no niche for braviary. Torn's acrobatics is almost as strong as a brave bird w/ no recoil, it's got the speed to be more threatening than braviary, and has a superior move pool (with like taunt and knock off for example). Item less torn isn't even bad or anything, for example it's been used in spl to good effect. While braviary is technically bulkier, it loses out on a fighting resist and also is slow enough that it will end up taking more hits than tornadus anyways. I'd like to trim down these ranks anyways so the fact that there are things there doesn't faze me. But yeah it just isn't a good mon. Idk why you'd use it when there are so many other birds.

Haha yeah I understand. I mean it's just that with shit like Torterra at D I though Braviary could also probably fit there p well.

Also I never said Itemless Torn was bad, just that Braviary's ability to hold an item (Such as Choice Band) is an advantage it has over Torn.

But if we're trimming down on the ranking then yeah, I'm fine if it is left unranked.

 

[realiti]

Haha yeah I understand. I mean it's just that with shit like Torterra at D I though Braviary could also probably fit there p well.

Also I never said Itemless Torn was bad, just that Braviary's ability to hold an item (Such as Choice Band) is an advantage it has over Torn.

But if we're trimming down on the ranking then yeah, I'm fine if it is left unranked.

Actually Torterra's typing is nice and it's the only grass that Tran can't switch into along with Wide Guard so yeah...
but that's beyond the point

 

[Audiosurfer]

The point being that torterra is not a good mon lol. I get that people wanna have things they use ranked but still. Dunno what's with the whole thing of ranking mons that are legit not good over obscure niches, but the thread would be more useful without it. If I needed a grass type but had a tran vulnerability, I'd edit so many other things before deciding to switch to torterra

 

[Darkmalice]

I'd like to trim down these ranks anyways so the fact that there are things there doesn't faze me. But yeah it just isn't a good mon. Idk why you'd use it when there are so many other birds.

I feel that anything that is viable should be ranked, with anything unviable either being in E rank or unranked. D rank is for bad but viable Pokemon. A lot of Pokemon are viable in Doubles, so naturally we'll have a big viability list, bigger than that of OU which is also big.

I'm going to nominate some rank changes that were nominated a while ago but were never voted on that I agree with:

i changed E rank's description but while i was down there i found some pokemon that don't belong. Liepard and Parasect in particular. The former has prankster Encore, which is literally hitler by itself and is only compounded by its access to Fake Out, which forces the opponent to choose between protecting and getting encored or not protecting and getting blasted by its partner when it fakes them out. Rounding out its moveset is STAB Foul Play and Thunder Wave which means it can invest almost fully in bulk (hell, even minimizing its own attack to reduce confusion damage) while still hitting pretty hard and being fast as fuck. Honestly, Liepard deserves C rank; it's better than klefki simply because of Encore and Fake Out. (also it can run swagger if ur an trolly bastard)

Parasect is a much worse pokemon but has the niche of getting access to both Rage Powder and Wide Guard, which no other Pokemon in the game does, making it a semi-legitimate replacement for amoonguss on rain teams. I'd be fine with it staying E rank, but access to Wide Guard makes it usable over amoonguss and pushes it up into D territory IMO. It's certainly not worse than asslamar

Liepard for C rank
Parasect for D-rank

Also speaking of asslamar, when was it taken off the list? If we're going to remove it from D rank, it should be mentioned with the other E rank Pokemon as there are a fair few newbies that use it.

Also I'll like to nominate Gallade moving down to C rank.

It's TR settler that hits hard but there are harder hitters, and it has good special bulk but there are bulkier Pokemon and is compromised by bad physical bulk. Whilst it can hit hard and have good special bulk together, there are other Pokemon that are better with that combination in TR. You're better off using bulkier settlers like Cress and more offensive TR sweepers like Conkledurr and Heatran. It's typing is also bad defensively and gives it few switch-in opportunities, which limits the niche of a Fighting-type TR settler. The notable benefit of that compared to its Psychic-type brethren is it's Dark-Type neutrality, however, that's a quesitonable benefit when Bisharp may straight-out OHKO Gallade with Knock Off. It's hard to justify its use. It's movepool is great though, and it has niche options like being a Fighting-type with Will-O-Wisp, and it gets Heal Pulse which has been buffed so that if your ally faints before you use it, you no longer heal the opponent.

For comparison, it was D rank in BW Doubles, where Intimidate and burn were less common, and fairies didn't exist. Also Gard is in B rank, who is very similar in stat spreads and movepool, has better typing, isn't weakened by Intimidate and burn, has a Mega Evo, and better abilities.

Also, the staple Fighting-types this generation are generally helpful against Mega Kang, where as Gallade needs defensive EV investment, a Sitrus Berry, and no prior damage to survive, the latter of which is difficult to achieve in practice.

252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 379-447 (111.4 - 131.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO. Sitrus Berry doesn't even guarantee survival.
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 36 Def Gallade: 360-424 (105.8 - 124.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO. This is a better spread.

Gallade is screwed if Kang has Double Edge or a PuP boost, or of course if Gallade has any prior damage.

I only know of Pwnemon's team that used Gallade well, though he ended up replacing Gallade with OTR Cresselia.


Also Tyranitar for A+ rank.

This is the most diverse Pokemon in the metagame - physical tank, mixed tank, special tank, choice scarf, dragon dance sets are all viable, and item choices can very with the set too - for example, a tank set could viably use Shuca Berry, Chople Berry, Weakness Policy, and more. You don't know how to handle it till it has revealed its moveset, and by then it may be too late. Wanna EQ it with Landorus-T? It could have Shuca Berry or Sash with Ice Beam. Wanna EQ with Yache Berry Garchomp? It could hold a Weakness Policy and use DD. It provides sand support too which whilst not that important this metagame, is still helpful, particularly against weather teams, for aiding Excadrill and Mega Garchomp, and breaking Breloom's Sash. Optional Mega Evo is also a plus, even if you're better off using other Megas, mainly relevant for the DD set. It's not S rank, but a well played Tyranitar is difficult to play against.

 

[champetero]

Hawlucha for D rank.

Hawlucha isn't your common pokemon but it has some niches like a base 118 speed.What hawlucha mainly has is the speed stat and a good support movepool with moves like sky drop,Encore,taunt,feather dance or quick guard.While liepard and whimsicott both have prankster encore and taunt they both lack quick guard which is a pretty good move in a metagame were priority is pretty big.Also hawlucha is a pretty good supporter to perish trap and it has the boost of being immune to ground something liepard lacks.

 

[realiti]

Lolk or Pwnemon are we starting B+ voting yet?

 

[Stratos]

yes, soon, sorry, every time i came into this thread smogon would 502 and i would forget about it

before then i have some nominations to make:

Also I'll like to nominate Gallade moving down to C rank.

Agree completely. Gallade is an almost amazing Pokemon that is held back by shitty physical defense, but oh is it shitty. It simply can't live hits on the physical side, which makes it very hard to switch in. In addition, it lacks useful resistances, so it takes basically every hit for neutral, and while it can live neutral special hits, it can't take too many. It's a great slugger with the best coverage ever seen, but it's just too frail. C+, but C.

I'd also like to nominate the following to drop to C: Trevenant, Reuniclus, Slowking, Victini, Kyurem.

Simply put, these are all there because we thought they were good when the tier first started. we've now figured out who the good TR setters are and it's not reuni or slowking, we realized that trev's niche is really just a gimmick, kyurem is totally outclassed by cube, and victini...frankly i dont know what the fuck victini does but i never see it so i'm nominating it for c, though i won't be as upset as with the rest if it stays in B.

Also Tyranitar for A+ rank.

This is the most diverse Pokemon in the metagame - physical tank, mixed tank, special tank, choice scarf, dragon dance sets are all viable, and item choices can very with the set too - for example, a tank set could viably use Shuca Berry, Chople Berry, Weakness Policy, and more. You don't know how to handle it till it has revealed its moveset, and by then it may be too late. Wanna EQ it with Landorus-T? It could have Shuca Berry or Sash with Ice Beam. Wanna EQ with Yache Berry Garchomp? It could hold a Weakness Policy and use DD. It provides sand support too which whilst not that important this metagame, is still helpful, particularly against weather teams, for aiding Excadrill and Mega Garchomp, and breaking Breloom's Sash. Optional Mega Evo is also a plus, even if you're better off using other Megas, mainly relevant for the DD set. It's not S rank, but a well played Tyranitar is difficult to play against.

i entirely DISagree here though. Tyranitar is simply too easy to kill in this metagame, and it has an awkward damage output (as in, it's kinda low). There's a reason that tyranitar only won 29% of the games it was in in SPL. Its one good use is exploiting the fact that half the meta is weak to rock while being bulkier than terrakion, but that does not an A+ pokemon make.

 

[Anty]

I would like cobalion to go up to C-rank. Although it may seem outclassed by terrakion, it isnt, as it has 2 good niches. Firstly, its increased defence allows it to tank physical hits very well. It will always live an adamant lando-t earthquake, a non (item) boosted talonflame flare blitz and a 20% to live a terrak cc (speed tie, coba always ohko's with cc). These are the strongest physical attacks it will have to take, showing it can tank most of the physical meta
Its main other niche is its steel-typing. STAB ironhead also provides nice support in hitting fairies - ohko'ing sylveon and megagard. Although its typing might not seem that big, it lets it form effective cores with other pokes, such as gardevior (watch out for sword). IT also provides team support in the form of quick guard, to help prio weak team mates and has the natural speed to beat common fake out users, making it the perfect counter to mega-kangaskahn (guaranteed ohko with orb), tank pup, (gets boosts from sucker punch)- which in itself should give it a rank.

I used it in the barrel tour and i still use it for the ladder. It provides good support and can patch holes in certain teams

calcs

vs coba
252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 88-105 (27.2 - 32.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO (boosts its attack)
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Power-Up Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 114-135 (35.2 - 41.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 112-132 (34.6 - 40.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (adamant!)
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 223-264 (69 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 254-300 (78.6 - 92.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (lo does ohko)
252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 314-372 (97.2 - 115.1%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO (if you factor in speed tie, coba has a better win chance)
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 222-264 (68.7 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (can ohko after -1 defense)

coba vs
252 Atk Life Orb Cobalion Close Combat vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 795-941 (284.9 - 337.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO ouch
252 Atk Life Orb Cobalion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 398-471 (113.3 - 134.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Cobalion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 109-130 (35.8 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (not so great, but allows a partner to hit it)
252 Atk Life Orb Cobalion Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 131-155 (43.9 - 52%) -- 12.5% chance to 2HKO (ik wrong ev spread, but nice damage)
252 Atk Life Orb Cobalion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 437-515 (135.2 - 159.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Cobalion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 218-257 (67.4 - 79.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Hide

It has the bulk and the type to give it a niche (who doesnt want a great sharp/mk check)

 

[Darkmalice]

I would like cobalion to go up to C-rank. Although it may seem outclassed by terrakion, it isnt, as it has 2 good niches. Firstly, its increased defence allows it to tank physical hits very well. It will always live an adamant lando-t earthquake, a non (item) boosted talonflame flare blitz and a 20% to live a terrak cc (speed tie, coba always ohko's with cc). These are the strongest physical attacks it will have to take, showing it can tank most of the physical meta
Its main other niche is its steel-typing. STAB ironhead also provides nice support in hitting fairies - ohko'ing sylveon and megagard. Although its typing might not seem that big, it lets it form effective cores with other pokes, such as gardevior (watch out for sword). IT also provides team support in the form of quick guard, to help prio weak team mates and has the natural speed to beat common fake out users, making it the perfect counter to mega-kangaskahn (guaranteed ohko with orb), tank pup, (gets boosts from sucker punch)- which in itself should give it a rank.

I used it in the barrel tour and i still use it for the ladder. It provides good support and can patch holes in certain teams


It has the bulk and the type to give it a niche (who doesnt want a great sharp/mk check)[/hide][/hide]

This isn't enough reason to use Cobalion over Mega Lucario, who boosts the same typing but far better offenses and speed without LO recoil, as well as a far better movepool. This includes the option to attack on the special side and more team support options like Quick Guard and Follow Me (but Mega Lucario is better off focusing on its offences).

vs coba
252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 88-105 (27.2 - 32.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO (boosts its attack). Mega Lucario and Terrakion also easily win.
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Power-Up Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 114-135 (35.2 - 41.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO. Not relevant considering that you OHKO it with CC. Mega Lucario and Terrakion can tank it too.
+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 112-132 (34.6 - 40.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (adamant!). ^
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 223-264 (69 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. Probably the only calc here of any signifiance, however, it will OHKO a -1 Def Cobalion.
252+ Atk Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 254-300 (78.6 - 92.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (lo does ohko). Most Talonflame have an attack boosting item.
252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 314-372 (97.2 - 115.1%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO (if you factor in speed tie, coba has a better win chance). Mega Lucario outspeeds.
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 222-264 (68.7 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (can ohko after -1 defense).Most Keldeo also use LO:
252 SpA Life Orb Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 289-343 (89.1 - 105.8%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO. Almost 100% after LO recoil from your own CC, 100% if you use CC first.
252 SpA Life Orb Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Cobalion: 305-360 (94.1 - 111.1%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO. Guaranteed after LO recoil from your own CC, 100% if you use CC first.

coba vs
252 Atk Life Orb Cobalion Close Combat vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 795-941 (284.9 - 337.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO ouch
252 Atk Life Orb Cobalion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 398-471 (113.3 - 134.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Cobalion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 109-130 (35.8 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (not so great, but allows a partner to hit it). Mega Mawile can now OHKO Cobalion with the Def drop, and Iron Head doesn't deal much damage.
252 Atk Life Orb Cobalion Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 131-155 (43.9 - 52%) -- 12.5% chance to 2HKO (ik wrong ev spread, but nice damage)
252 Atk Life Orb Cobalion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 437-515 (135.2 - 159.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Cobalion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 218-257 (67.4 - 79.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery. 252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 310-366 (95.9 - 113.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

 

[Arcticblast]

It's been a week since Pwnemon said he'd do this. I'd do it but I'm busy right now and also a lazy bitch so Ponymon please do this

 

[Stratos]

you are a shit-stained butthole

B+ VOTES

Gardevoir
Keldeo
Weavile
Kingdra
Azumarill
Jirachi
Suicune
Ferrothorn
Sylveon
Rotom-H
Mamoswine
Salamence
Chandelure
Gourgeist
Zapdos
Klefki

basically: the entire fcking rank

OTHER VOTES:
Tyranitar to A+
Abomasnow to B
Darkrai to B
Liepard to C
Parasect to D
Jirachi to A
Gallade to C
Trevenant to C
Reuniclus to C
Victini to C
Kyurem to C
Slowking to C
Cobalion to C
Infernape to B


im really sorry for not cutting this off earlier i didn't think it'd be so big

IN FACT THIS IS TOO FUCKING BIG. So this is how I'll do it. First, we'll have a phase where we just vote on the B+ noms. then, we'll have a phase where we just vote on the other noms. Then we'll go back to nominating. Go.

 

[Bughouse]

B+ VOTES

Gardevoir yes
Keldeo yes
Weavile no
Kingdra no
Azumarill yes
Jirachi yes
Suicune yes
Ferrothorn no
Sylveon yes
Rotom-H yes
Mamoswine no
Salamence no
Chandelure yes
Gourgeist no
Zapdos no
Klefki no

Yes votes:
Keldeo is pushing A, probably the best thing in B+.
Fairy Spam is plenty viable. Sylveon and Gard are easy choices imo.
Suicune is best Tailwind user aside from Prankster/Gale Wings and definitely fits better on many teams than Talonflame or Tornadus would.
Jirachi is pretty solid with how it can mess with things as diverse as Kangaskhan to Sylveon to Amoonguss (if running Safeguard). Very versatile and should be experimented with more tbh.
Rotom-H still a great option to singlehandedly help any team against Sun.
Chandelure is a good Ghost with Will-o-Wisp for offensive teams if they want to deal with Kanga that way. Also a great Trick Room user. Powerful Heat Wave. Both Infiltrator and Flash Fire are great.
Azumarill is the one I'm most iffy on, but it is a monster when set up, seems to fit B+ to me I guess.

 

[Lolk]

uhhh

Gardevoir: No. Sylveon does the same thing but without using the Mega slot. The only pro is that its STAB Psyshock lets it hit Amoonguss hard (but Fighting types are already handled by Hyper Voice anyway). Will-O-Wisp is cool, but everything that it really wants to use it against is 2 fast4it or can be taken out easier by just spamming Hyper Voice.

Keldeo: Yes. AWESOME STABs, Speed, and the ability to support the team with Quick Guard or Safeguard make it a very reliable Special Attacker. O wait Hydro Miss always misses for me so nevermind D rank.

Weavile: No. Its fraility is a huge letdown and it misses out on many KOs with it's STAB attacks, considering many bulky attackers dominate the meta. If the opponent is using any form of Speed Control, Weavile's team slot is near wasted.

Kingdra: No. Being 100% weather reliant is a deterrent from B+ imo, while it still does a great job in the rain, as an individual it is not worthy.

Azumarill: Yes. It can run Sitrus, Choice Band, or MEGABUS and its STABs threaten a large portion of the metagame. It can also function hold its own against many playstyles due to its good bulk and Aqua Jet. I would be more hesitant for B+, as Intimidate is very common, but Landorus-T, Hitmontop, and Scrafty can't do a thing if Azumarill reveals Belly Drum.

Jirachi: Yes. While Togekiss and Amoonguss are arguably better, Jirachi can accomplish a lot with its Follow Me set, because it handles a few things that the others cannot, such as Ice-, Rock-, Steel-types, and Mega Kanga (mostly). Its movepool is also freaking insane, being able to cripple everything's Speed and flinch everything to death. I know Togekiss does the same thing but it is just as devastating when Jirachi does it. Also it is the only redirector to get Safeguard :O

Suicune: Yes. It's one of the best Tailwind setters in Doubles because it can easily fit on teams with its uncommon (yet still great) defensive typing and its good bulk. Plus literally nothing wants to switch in on Scald or Snarl, so it can easily keep momentum on its side. It can hit hard as well if you EV it more offensively.

Ferrothorn: Yes. This thing shuts down so many threats in Doubles it is not even funny. Offensive Grass-types are rare, and this thing is one of the only current threats that can OHKO Rotom-Wash. In addition it can support the team with Leech Seed and/or Thunder Wave. It is too easy to support its Fire- and Fighting-type weaknesses in Doubles, and switching in a Rocky Helmet Ferrothorn on a Mega Kangaskhan Fake Out is god-tier.

Sylveon: Yes. It is so hard to switch into this thing, and its bulk is enough to take a hit from most Pokemon; the opponent has to be really smart in choosing how to deal with it, as Sylveon's damage output is always tremendous. It is really easy to support it as well, considering all of its counters are Fire- or Steel-types or Amoonguss (yes it has more checks but they don't want to switch in at all).

Rotom-H: Yes. I am more iffy about this one, as it accomplishes basically the same thing as Rotom-W, but against different things (LIKE SKYMIN FACK THAT THING). The Overheat Special Attack drop is sooooo annoying, and Rock Slide, Stone Edge, and Rain teams are everywhere. That being said, it can do so much for the team, and its pros over other B rank Pokemon are greater than its disadvantages over Rotom-W.

Mamoswine: No. I could go either way on this one tbh, as its STAB attacks threaten a HUGE HUGE HUGE HUUUUGE portion of the meta. But the frailty, bad defensive typing, and middling speed (Ice Shard ain't enough yo) brings it down a ton (cost me the random doubles tourney today :/). It also only runs one good set (scarf is done sooo much better by Landorus-T).

Salamence: No. Another iffy case, as their is a lot of utility in Intimidate+Tailwind, but I find the damage output dissatisfying and the need to switch every time it uses Draco Meteor is annoying. I ain't about that life.

Chandelure: Yes. This thing is sexy af, boasting a STAB Heat Wave and Shadow Ball from an enormous Special Attack Stat. It also has Will-O-Wisp, wrecking Mega Kangaskhan and making many of its checks think twice about switching in. It also can run a Scarf set, Substitute, or it can set up Trick Room decently. And it has two great abilities. Great Mon.

Gourgeist: No. Chandelure is just as reliable at doing Trick Room + Will-O-Wisp when it holds a Focus Sash, considering Gourgeist struggles to stay around long enough to set up twice due to its puny Special Defense and a weakness to many threats. Plus, you can only go so far walling in Doubles without any offensive presence. Leech Seed and walling Ground-types (can't even beat half of the Water-types in Doubles lol) are the only reasons to use it over Sash Chandy and that isn't enough for B+.

Zapdos: No. It is good at setting up Tailwind, and Thunderbolt+Heat Wave hits a few things quite hard. However, its defensive typing stacks weaknesses with a lot of common Pokes in Doubles, and seeing how the supporting mons are typically picked last in teambuilding, Zapdos rarely makes the cut. It is easier to use stuff like Hydreigon and Suicune if you want Tailwind up because their typings don't clash with many threats in Doubles, like Zapdos's.

Klefki: Yes. This thing can run so many valuable supporting moves with +1 priority, including Safeguard, Dual Screens, Thunder Wave, and Swagger. Plus, Foul Play prevents it from being setup fodder unlike many other supporters. Plus, setting up Safeguard and then swaggering your partner is the coolest thing ever.