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Other The OU Theorymon Project (CLOSED)
- Thread starter alexwolf
- Start date
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Mega Aggron appeals to me the most in terms of usability on this slate. The big problem I always run into is that, to use M-Aggron to his fullest as a tank, his EVs always end up going into his bulk, which makes his offenses underwhelming with neither investment nor a boosting item. Shift Gear not only retains the Speed Boosts he really wants, but boosts his offenses to make sure there's no problems with Bulk Investment. Heavy Slam for STAB, Earthquake and an Elemental Punch/SE for coverage. Rest-Talk and Shift Gear might also let him pull off a Mono-Attacking set to some extent, as that kind of bulk could very easily allow him to tank most Physical priority in the Meta (resisting Flying Spam, ES, Ice Shard and Bullet Punch), while Filter offsets weaker Mach Punches and attain multiple boosts. All Aggron needs is a good Special Wall/Tank to deal with Special Attackers like LO Landorus, and he's good to go.
Shift Gear also adds a bit more unpredictability or versatility to his options. He can go with Curse to deal with Bulky Offense or Stall (immunity to Toxic, or exploiting paralysis for Status Protection, maybe even using the Rest-Talk set mentioned), or Shift Gear to barrel through faster teams or Physical attackers on HO, who he can set up against without being killed, and proceed to tear through without hesitation thanks to the frailty a good number of HO Pokemon display.
Shift Gear also adds a bit more unpredictability or versatility to his options. He can go with Curse to deal with Bulky Offense or Stall (immunity to Toxic, or exploiting paralysis for Status Protection, maybe even using the Rest-Talk set mentioned), or Shift Gear to barrel through faster teams or Physical attackers on HO, who he can set up against without being killed, and proceed to tear through without hesitation thanks to the frailty a good number of HO Pokemon display.
Umbreon is the least interesting personally. It loses its Fighting, Bug and Fairy weaknesses but gains a weakness to Ground. Its movesets likely won't change that much and I'm not sure how much niche it'll have even with the new typing.
All three remaining Theorymons are interesting. MegaAggron already had a way to boost speed with Automotize, but Shift Gear gives him a much wanted offensive boost as well. I can see it becoming really tough to take down, especially since special priority is quite lacking. He might be too strong though without resorting to Prankster-style tricks or burning him before he gets a chance to accumulate too many boosts.
Drizzle Noivern's obvious use is to abuse that STAB Hurricane - it literally has no other moves that benefit from it. As a Drizzler, it gains the benefit of being immune to Tspikes and Spikes over Politoed, but is SR weak. It's also much faster and immune to Ground moves, and isn't forced to run Ice Beam to deal with Grass types. The fact that it has U-Turn is icing on the cake, allowing Damp Rock Noivern to easily bounce away to give its team 7 turns of deadly downpour. I'm not completely sure where the basis of the theorymon comes from since Noivern can't even learn Rain Dance, though.
Tough Claws Honchkrow is a really cool idea in theory, with amped up Sucker Punches and Brave Birds to really tear into opponents. Since it loses Moxie, Honchkrow is just dying to be on the receiving end of a Baton Pass. I'm not sure it fixes any of its main problems however, namely lack of speed and having to play Sucker Punch mindgames with faster opponents.
Of the set, Noivern seems the best for the metagame personally.
All three remaining Theorymons are interesting. MegaAggron already had a way to boost speed with Automotize, but Shift Gear gives him a much wanted offensive boost as well. I can see it becoming really tough to take down, especially since special priority is quite lacking. He might be too strong though without resorting to Prankster-style tricks or burning him before he gets a chance to accumulate too many boosts.
Drizzle Noivern's obvious use is to abuse that STAB Hurricane - it literally has no other moves that benefit from it. As a Drizzler, it gains the benefit of being immune to Tspikes and Spikes over Politoed, but is SR weak. It's also much faster and immune to Ground moves, and isn't forced to run Ice Beam to deal with Grass types. The fact that it has U-Turn is icing on the cake, allowing Damp Rock Noivern to easily bounce away to give its team 7 turns of deadly downpour. I'm not completely sure where the basis of the theorymon comes from since Noivern can't even learn Rain Dance, though.
Tough Claws Honchkrow is a really cool idea in theory, with amped up Sucker Punches and Brave Birds to really tear into opponents. Since it loses Moxie, Honchkrow is just dying to be on the receiving end of a Baton Pass. I'm not sure it fixes any of its main problems however, namely lack of speed and having to play Sucker Punch mindgames with faster opponents.
Of the set, Noivern seems the best for the metagame personally.
Umbreon doesn't really care about the Ground weakness, as the only special attacker that uses Ground moves and can get past Umbreon is Landorus, which could already 2HKO Umbreon with Focus Blast. As for physical Ground-types, such as Garchomp, Excadrill, Landorus-T, Mamoswine, and Diggersby, Umbreon didn't want to switch into those Pokemon before anyway. So basically, with the added Poison typing Umbreon loses all three of its weaknesses and gets a Poison resistance and Toxic immunity for free, which is pretty fucking awesome. Here are some Pokemon that Dark / Poison Umbreon can wall and couldn't before:Axa said:
- Mega Gardevoir
- Any Aegislash bar SD (very important)
- Non Specs and CM Keldeo
- Deoxys-S
- Life Orb Gengar with Focus Blast
- U-turn Greninja
- Physical Thundurus and Life Orb Thundurus with Focus Blast
- Tornadus-T
- Sylveon
- Mega Alakazam
Huh, interesting slate (I say something like that with every one, don't I)
Dark Poison Umbreon. Dark/Poison is simply amazing typing, and Alex posted specifics really well. I think Umbreon's a very underrated pokemon and could really use this. That said, it's still complete bait for set up and such due to such little offensive presence. Foul Play covers most of that, but not all.
Shift Gear Mega Aggron is a pretty good option too. I kinda wish it was regular Aggron for the Head Smash spam, but regular Aggron would have way too much trouble getting the free turn. Resistance to most priority, great bulk, powerful attacks, I like it.
Drizzle Noivern with STAB Hurricane makes me giddy. The fast U-Turn would make it pretty good for support as well. Matching it up with rain teams to take care of grass types seems like a solid plan.
Tough Claws Honchkrow is interesting as well. Powerful Sucker Punches and Brave Birds are more than anyone can ask for, and I can see this filling a role in Bird Spam as a wall breaker type slightly more durable than Staraptor.
All in all, I'm kinda leaning towards Umbreon but the discussion was enough to change my mind last time, so I'm just going to watch for a while.
Dark Poison Umbreon. Dark/Poison is simply amazing typing, and Alex posted specifics really well. I think Umbreon's a very underrated pokemon and could really use this. That said, it's still complete bait for set up and such due to such little offensive presence. Foul Play covers most of that, but not all.
Shift Gear Mega Aggron is a pretty good option too. I kinda wish it was regular Aggron for the Head Smash spam, but regular Aggron would have way too much trouble getting the free turn. Resistance to most priority, great bulk, powerful attacks, I like it.
Drizzle Noivern with STAB Hurricane makes me giddy. The fast U-Turn would make it pretty good for support as well. Matching it up with rain teams to take care of grass types seems like a solid plan.
Tough Claws Honchkrow is interesting as well. Powerful Sucker Punches and Brave Birds are more than anyone can ask for, and I can see this filling a role in Bird Spam as a wall breaker type slightly more durable than Staraptor.
All in all, I'm kinda leaning towards Umbreon but the discussion was enough to change my mind last time, so I'm just going to watch for a while.
Jacks0n
formerly grassycow
I still don't think poison umbreon will affect the meta too much. You say its walls mega gardevoir and thundurus but it still really struggles to take a calm mind hyper voice aswell as a nasty plot thundurus's tbolt. Its an improvement, but I don't think it would get too much use because of chansey's far superior bulk and bigger wishes.
Shift gear mega aggron would actually be a huge threat. With good attack, and insanely powerful heavy slam against HO because everything is light and fast, good coveredge in EQ, ice punch ect. aswell as having huge bulk and filter to find plenty of set-up opportunities. I actually think this thing would be great against HO because it has good attack, a very powerful stab against HO, good coveredge and insane defence and filter which would give it plenty of set-up opportunities. This thing would demand checks in HO. It would struggle a but more with balanced with things such as defencive Hippo or rotom wash but once they are weakened, this thing is hella scary and will probably get my vote.
Drizzle noivern is actually quite interesting. Its a great tool for rain teams because it can be a setter outside of politoed that fires of huge powerful life orb stab hurricanes. I think this thing would work best on rain teams because it would abuse rain aswell as being a secondary setter, an interesting option. Like all rain abusers, this thing would take out a lot of offencive pokemon.
I can't see how touch claws honchrow would be much better than moxie. I could only see it being an extra tool for bird spam with a scarf set that fires of powerful touch claws brave birds which would take out a lot of offencive pokemon or a band set for wallbreaking with brave bird aswell as powerful sucker punches.
Shift gear mega aggron would actually be a huge threat. With good attack, and insanely powerful heavy slam against HO because everything is light and fast, good coveredge in EQ, ice punch ect. aswell as having huge bulk and filter to find plenty of set-up opportunities. I actually think this thing would be great against HO because it has good attack, a very powerful stab against HO, good coveredge and insane defence and filter which would give it plenty of set-up opportunities. This thing would demand checks in HO. It would struggle a but more with balanced with things such as defencive Hippo or rotom wash but once they are weakened, this thing is hella scary and will probably get my vote.
Drizzle noivern is actually quite interesting. Its a great tool for rain teams because it can be a setter outside of politoed that fires of huge powerful life orb stab hurricanes. I think this thing would work best on rain teams because it would abuse rain aswell as being a secondary setter, an interesting option. Like all rain abusers, this thing would take out a lot of offencive pokemon.
I can't see how touch claws honchrow would be much better than moxie. I could only see it being an extra tool for bird spam with a scarf set that fires of powerful touch claws brave birds which would take out a lot of offencive pokemon or a band set for wallbreaking with brave bird aswell as powerful sucker punches.
Drizzle Noivern, while it lacks flavours, is indeed very strong and would be the face of rain offense. It may be weak to SR (otherwise it would have been way over the top imo) but the main thing about it is that it doesn't compound the electric and grass rain teams usually have. It also get a nice STAB hurricane that itself takes care of Venusaur and the like. The complimentarity with kabutops is very good and avoids the hassle of double switching to get anything done.
On the downside, Noivern cannot as effectively roast Ferrothorn.
The best set would probably be draco meteor/hurricane/focus blast (gotta take care of those steel types)/filler (contenders are u-turn, roost and taunt). With rain, resisted stab hurricane is as strong as super effective flamethrower so no reason to run that.
The ice weakness isn't that bad since it allows water types switch ins.
More on other submissions later!
On the downside, Noivern cannot as effectively roast Ferrothorn.
The best set would probably be draco meteor/hurricane/focus blast (gotta take care of those steel types)/filler (contenders are u-turn, roost and taunt). With rain, resisted stab hurricane is as strong as super effective flamethrower so no reason to run that.
The ice weakness isn't that bad since it allows water types switch ins.
More on other submissions later!
Umbreon pretty much has an amazing typing, like Drapion has shown us. However, it has no offensive presence whatsoever outside of Foul Pay, which was one of its biggest problems it always had, so it might not be that impactful.
Aggron is really interesting and reminds me of Agility Ampharos for whatever reason. With just Ice Punch and Earthquake it gets perfect coverage, and of course Heavy Slam for nuking stuff. Not to mention that insane bulk making it hard to revenge kill. I can see this becoming a really huge threat.
Honchkrow is among one of my favorite Pokemon of all time but Tough Claws isn't gonna make that much of a difference. Moxie is actually a better ability for Honchkrow due to the nature of how it plays.
Noivern actually does fit flavor, considering rain happens very frequently in Hurricane (technically Drizzle makes sense on everything with Hurricane). What makes Noivern different from other weather inducers lies in U-turn. U-turn means it is inherently at a advantage against opposing weather teams. Tailwind makes Rain vs Rain much easier to deal with. Switcheroo gives set up opportunities to stuff or cripples a wall so that the sweepers have a easier time. Hurricane kills Venusaur and Keldeo which Rain offense absolutely hate to face.
Aggron is really interesting and reminds me of Agility Ampharos for whatever reason. With just Ice Punch and Earthquake it gets perfect coverage, and of course Heavy Slam for nuking stuff. Not to mention that insane bulk making it hard to revenge kill. I can see this becoming a really huge threat.
Honchkrow is among one of my favorite Pokemon of all time but Tough Claws isn't gonna make that much of a difference. Moxie is actually a better ability for Honchkrow due to the nature of how it plays.
Noivern actually does fit flavor, considering rain happens very frequently in Hurricane (technically Drizzle makes sense on everything with Hurricane). What makes Noivern different from other weather inducers lies in U-turn. U-turn means it is inherently at a advantage against opposing weather teams. Tailwind makes Rain vs Rain much easier to deal with. Switcheroo gives set up opportunities to stuff or cripples a wall so that the sweepers have a easier time. Hurricane kills Venusaur and Keldeo which Rain offense absolutely hate to face.
I friggin hate rain at the moment with me learning of Politied's buff in tiershift (why did that damn thing have to be in NU?) so something else to distract me by a new rain setter is a blessing Imo. While it covers different things and all, I believe this will be having to take some form of bulk due to the need of repeated switchins so its curious to say the least.
Umbreon's buff makes it quite silly and annoying Imo. Just from a the UU standpoint, this would now make Nido not necessarily needing to run Megahorn/Focus Blast to stop it. But this is oh so lets discuss that. He can serve as a valuable check to many Mons, is no longer stopped by the dreaded toxic, and carries with it the weakness of ground which wouldn't be an issue much as it didn't care for ground types anyway. While this does make Umbreon far better, idk what exactly he would be running differe toy as it seems he would stay the same moveset wise. No miss Toxic though :D
Shift Gear Meggron you say? Call the military cause we cant stop the tyrant from slamming us down into oblivion.
Eh, its Honchkrow. It doesn't have any claws on its primary attacking body parts (unless one punches with their feet?) so just based on the confusion I see, that's all I got.
Umbreon's buff makes it quite silly and annoying Imo. Just from a the UU standpoint, this would now make Nido not necessarily needing to run Megahorn/Focus Blast to stop it. But this is oh so lets discuss that. He can serve as a valuable check to many Mons, is no longer stopped by the dreaded toxic, and carries with it the weakness of ground which wouldn't be an issue much as it didn't care for ground types anyway. While this does make Umbreon far better, idk what exactly he would be running differe toy as it seems he would stay the same moveset wise. No miss Toxic though :D
Shift Gear Meggron you say? Call the military cause we cant stop the tyrant from slamming us down into oblivion.
Eh, its Honchkrow. It doesn't have any claws on its primary attacking body parts (unless one punches with their feet?) so just based on the confusion I see, that's all I got.
This has to be the worst slate flavor-wise. Only Shift Gear Mega Aggron really makes much sense. On to the competitive viability of each of these:
Dark / Poison Umbreon: alexwolf already described why this is really good. Poison is a great defensive typing which is why it was a good addition for Eelektross and Tangrowth and will be a good addition for Umbreon. Shedding its current weaknesses and adding Grass and Poison resists and a Toxic immunity all for a relatively minor weakness to Ground is a great upgrade to it. This will probably get my vote.
Shift Gear Mega Aggron: This sounds good in theory, but I don't think it will be that great. It has serious 4MSS since a lot of Pokemon resist its Steel type STAB. It also faces competition from Mega Scizor which can boost its attack faster, has better defensive typing and special bulk, has reliable recovery and Knock Off for coverage, and has priority which is even better than +2 speed.
Drizzle Noivern: Look what happened the last time we had a super fast Pokemon with reliable Hurricane spam; let's not try this again. Noivern doesn't even need Politoed which makes it even worse.
Tough Claws Honchkrow: Mega Charizard X has 130 base attack. Honchkrow has 125 base attack. Honchkrow gets to use a Life Orb or a Choice Band and doesn't take up your mega slot. In my opinion, this is the definition of a mindless offensive buff. I think OU is better off without Honchkrow smashing everything in sight with Brave Bird and Night Slash while having super powerful priority for faster threats.
Dark / Poison Umbreon: alexwolf already described why this is really good. Poison is a great defensive typing which is why it was a good addition for Eelektross and Tangrowth and will be a good addition for Umbreon. Shedding its current weaknesses and adding Grass and Poison resists and a Toxic immunity all for a relatively minor weakness to Ground is a great upgrade to it. This will probably get my vote.
Shift Gear Mega Aggron: This sounds good in theory, but I don't think it will be that great. It has serious 4MSS since a lot of Pokemon resist its Steel type STAB. It also faces competition from Mega Scizor which can boost its attack faster, has better defensive typing and special bulk, has reliable recovery and Knock Off for coverage, and has priority which is even better than +2 speed.
Drizzle Noivern: Look what happened the last time we had a super fast Pokemon with reliable Hurricane spam; let's not try this again. Noivern doesn't even need Politoed which makes it even worse.
Tough Claws Honchkrow: Mega Charizard X has 130 base attack. Honchkrow has 125 base attack. Honchkrow gets to use a Life Orb or a Choice Band and doesn't take up your mega slot. In my opinion, this is the definition of a mindless offensive buff. I think OU is better off without Honchkrow smashing everything in sight with Brave Bird and Night Slash while having super powerful priority for faster threats.
Dark / Poison Umbreon makes a lot of sense if you read its Dex entries.
Dark / Poison Umbreon doesn't make sense considering it's an eeveelution, which are all mono-type.
I was thinking that Moxie is better anyway, since +1 is obviously better than 30% boost or w/e Tough Claws gives, but Krow needs a kill to get that. With Tough Claws, it's hitting hard as hell right from the start.
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 232-274 (54.7 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Honchkrow Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 231-273 (54.4 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
As strong as CB Staraptor, but using Life Orb. And it has a better secondary STAB in Dark.
Barely anything resists Dark/Flying. There's Mawile and Bisharp, but Krow resists Sucker Punch and blasts them with Heat Wave. Super Power gets T-Tar. Everything else that does is kind of shit (lol Dedenne.) Skarm, who walls Staraptor utterly, also gets hit with Heat Wave.
And trying to revenge kill it: that Sucker Punch is really brutal, considering it's a priority move.
252+ Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Honchkrow Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 364-429 (100.5 - 118.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Honchkrow Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 331-391 (91.4 - 108%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Honchkrow Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Thundurus: 294-347 (98 - 115.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Honchkrow Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 251-296 (70.1 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Okay Chomp checks but it still has to be relatively healthy, and that's 108/95 bulk there. This really feels a bit broken, I mean it's SR weak and frail and uses a recoil move+Life Orb (it has good HP though,) and a couple checks like Terrakion exist, but this is really friggin strong and definitely a "mindless offensive buff."
252 SpA Choice Specs Noivern Hurricane vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Espeon: 229-271 (84.1 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Numbers speak for themselves. As reliable as it may be, Noivern's Hurricane is pretty weak, such that even with a Choice Specs, it cannot OHKO something with a terrible 65/95 bulk, so Hurricane spam is not that much of a concern. Plus the lack of permanent rain makes Hurricane less threatening (which is why Torn-T is in UU)
Rather, its general utility, for being able to switch in reliably into Charizard-Y, arguably the biggest threat to rain in general, and great utility move in Switcheroo, U-turn and Tailwind are fantastic support moves makes it good for team support.
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I'm really liking the look of this Umbreon, Dark / Poison typing is just really nice in general but Umbreon now walls / checks a lot of powerful threats. However I think at this stage I like Shift Gear Mega-Aggron the most because I love unique set up sweepers with moves such as shell smash, quiver dance, coil, and of course shift gear :P and Aggron could definitely abuse this buff.
The other two just scare me too much for me to want to vote for them.
People have discussed how scary Tough Claws Honchkrow is already so I won't go down that path.
And however escarlata showed that Drizzle Noivern's Hurricane isn't that scary...
what scares me is Freaking Specs Keldeo with Rain AND Tailwind Support! :O
The other two just scare me too much for me to want to vote for them.
People have discussed how scary Tough Claws Honchkrow is already so I won't go down that path.
And however escarlata showed that Drizzle Noivern's Hurricane isn't that scary...
what scares me is Freaking Specs Keldeo with Rain AND Tailwind Support! :O
The thing about Honchkrow is that it actually hits hard enough already. If you've ever played against this beast, you know that Brave Bird + Superpower is already smashing everything in the metagame hard enough to put pretty much any team in a tough place. And then there's STAB Suckerpunch, which is... well, it's STAB SUCKERPUNCH.
Plus, Honchkrow has what is arguably one of the best defensive typings in the game (not to mention at all about how vicious both Dark and Flying are a offensive types).
Honchkrow's PROBLEM is bulk and Speed-- it has no survivability. When I talked to Alex, I was actually trying to brainstorm ways to bolster its SURVIVAL stats. If Honch could abuse its defensive typing better, it would be a simply amazing Pokemon because of its raw power and matching movepool.
Then there's the ability I suggested that Alex picked as the best of the bunch-- Tough Claws.
With Tough Claws, Adamant Honch's ATK comes out to a massive 408 without ANY EVs-- so you're using an attack stat 25 points higher than a fully EV'd Adamant Krow, which as we've discussed, already hits plenty hard with the coverage/attacks it has.
This frees you up to throw all 510 EVs you got into defenses and possibly Speed.
As an example, with Assault Vest and Tough Claws, you can get the following stats:
Adamant 240 HP, 200 DEF, 68 Sp.DEF
Tough Claws
@ Assault Vest
HP: 401
ATK: 408
DEF: 190
Sp.DEF: 235
(with Sucker Punch, Brave Bird, Superpower, and Pursuit)
Some relevant (maybe not so useful) calcs:
252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Sacred Sword vs. 240 HP / 200 Def Honchkrow: 149-176 (37.1 - 43.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Flash Cannon vs. 240 HP / 68 SpD Assault Vest Honchkrow: 160-190 (39.9 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Iron Head vs. 240 HP / 200 Def Honchkrow: 226-266 (56.3 - 66.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO :(
252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 240 HP / 200 Def Honchkrow: 136-161 (33.9 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Of course if you go AV plus 252 Sp.DEF, you can get yourself an interesting trapper as well.
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Honchkrow: 247-292 (61.2 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Gengar Sludge Bomb vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Honchkrow: 115-136 (28.5 - 33.7%) -- 0.7% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Sludge Bomb vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Honchkrow: 149-177 (36.9 - 43.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Honchkrow: 157-186 (38.9 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Leftovers sets with Roost are always considerable too.
Of course, inversely Honch's Damange output remains pretty damn impressive even with 0 investment.
0+ Atk Tough Claws Honchkrow Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 250-295 (78.1 - 92.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0+ Atk Tough Claws Honchkrow Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 366-432 (121.1 - 143%) -- guaranteed OHKO (BB also guaranteed a OHKO after SR)
0+ Atk Tough Claws Honchkrow Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 216-254 (66.6 - 78.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0+ Atk Tough Claws Honchkrow Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 210-247 (70.4 - 82.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0+ Atk Tough Claws Honchkrow Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Scizor: 171-202 (49.7 - 58.7%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
Basically anything this guy hits super effective can potentially be OHKO'd or is guaranteed OHKO'd.
So while I do appreciate how massively powerful Tough Claws can make Honchkrow when ATK is invested in, I'd also like you guys to consider what it can mean in terms of patching up Honch's survivability, which is its biggest achilles heal in OU. My biggest fear if any is that this boost will just completely break Krow-- STAB + Tough Claws Sucker might be too much for the meta when it's fully invested in. Dunno
Plus, Honchkrow has what is arguably one of the best defensive typings in the game (not to mention at all about how vicious both Dark and Flying are a offensive types).
Honchkrow's PROBLEM is bulk and Speed-- it has no survivability. When I talked to Alex, I was actually trying to brainstorm ways to bolster its SURVIVAL stats. If Honch could abuse its defensive typing better, it would be a simply amazing Pokemon because of its raw power and matching movepool.
The trouble is that there's no Ability or Attack that can really do this for Honchkrow. Abilities like Regenerator or Magic Guard for instance wouldn't fix Honch's problem of having defensive stats too weak to really switch in. Prankster would help once Honchk was actually in and works really well flavorwise (Murk has it), but again-- no help on the switch in. Speed Boost has the same problem, plus there was no way in hell I was going to recommend the super broken-ass Speed Boost for no really reason (though I guess there's precedent in Pokes like Blaziken and Sharpedo getting it). Intimidate would be perfect-- helping out Honchk against the physical attackers its typing is well suited to counter, and making perfect sense flavorwise. Only problem-- it would boost up Bisharp, who is a target you REALLY want to be able to abuse Honch's typing against.
Then there's the ability I suggested that Alex picked as the best of the bunch-- Tough Claws.
With Tough Claws, Adamant Honch's ATK comes out to a massive 408 without ANY EVs-- so you're using an attack stat 25 points higher than a fully EV'd Adamant Krow, which as we've discussed, already hits plenty hard with the coverage/attacks it has.
This frees you up to throw all 510 EVs you got into defenses and possibly Speed.
As an example, with Assault Vest and Tough Claws, you can get the following stats:
Adamant 240 HP, 200 DEF, 68 Sp.DEF
Tough Claws
@ Assault Vest
HP: 401
ATK: 408
DEF: 190
Sp.DEF: 235
(with Sucker Punch, Brave Bird, Superpower, and Pursuit)
Some relevant (maybe not so useful) calcs:
252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Sacred Sword vs. 240 HP / 200 Def Honchkrow: 149-176 (37.1 - 43.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Flash Cannon vs. 240 HP / 68 SpD Assault Vest Honchkrow: 160-190 (39.9 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Iron Head vs. 240 HP / 200 Def Honchkrow: 226-266 (56.3 - 66.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO :(
252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 240 HP / 200 Def Honchkrow: 136-161 (33.9 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Of course if you go AV plus 252 Sp.DEF, you can get yourself an interesting trapper as well.
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Honchkrow: 247-292 (61.2 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Gengar Sludge Bomb vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Honchkrow: 115-136 (28.5 - 33.7%) -- 0.7% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Sludge Bomb vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Honchkrow: 149-177 (36.9 - 43.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Honchkrow: 157-186 (38.9 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Leftovers sets with Roost are always considerable too.
Of course, inversely Honch's Damange output remains pretty damn impressive even with 0 investment.
0+ Atk Tough Claws Honchkrow Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 250-295 (78.1 - 92.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0+ Atk Tough Claws Honchkrow Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 366-432 (121.1 - 143%) -- guaranteed OHKO (BB also guaranteed a OHKO after SR)
0+ Atk Tough Claws Honchkrow Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 216-254 (66.6 - 78.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0+ Atk Tough Claws Honchkrow Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 210-247 (70.4 - 82.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0+ Atk Tough Claws Honchkrow Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Scizor: 171-202 (49.7 - 58.7%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
Basically anything this guy hits super effective can potentially be OHKO'd or is guaranteed OHKO'd.
So while I do appreciate how massively powerful Tough Claws can make Honchkrow when ATK is invested in, I'd also like you guys to consider what it can mean in terms of patching up Honch's survivability, which is its biggest achilles heal in OU. My biggest fear if any is that this boost will just completely break Krow-- STAB + Tough Claws Sucker might be too much for the meta when it's fully invested in. Dunno
Jacks0n
formerly grassycow
honestly scarf honch would be the best set because of its insane power.
megaggron is just a sweeper
honchkrow doesn't fit flavour wise and moxie is better on it
hitting through subs>perfect accuracy hurricane imo
umbreon is pretty good. I'll vote for that one
honchkrow doesn't fit flavour wise and moxie is better on it
hitting through subs>perfect accuracy hurricane imo
umbreon is pretty good. I'll vote for that one
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 178-211 (42.3 - 50.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Honchkrow Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 231-274 (55 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
I think these calcs are enough to show how OP Tough Claws Honchkrow is. While Chou Toshio tried to frame it as something you could invest some bulk into and play defensively, there is nothing stopping people from going with max attack and using it to nuke shit (and that is probably the best way to use it).
I encourage people not to vote for Honchkrow because it is just another offensive powerhouse which doesn't add anything else to OU. Drapion was okay because its attack wasn't that great and it didn't have a 120 BP STAB, but giving Tough Claws to Honchkrow is just too much.
252+ Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Honchkrow Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 231-274 (55 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
I think these calcs are enough to show how OP Tough Claws Honchkrow is. While Chou Toshio tried to frame it as something you could invest some bulk into and play defensively, there is nothing stopping people from going with max attack and using it to nuke shit (and that is probably the best way to use it).
I encourage people not to vote for Honchkrow because it is just another offensive powerhouse which doesn't add anything else to OU. Drapion was okay because its attack wasn't that great and it didn't have a 120 BP STAB, but giving Tough Claws to Honchkrow is just too much.
Poison / Dark Umbreon: This is actually a better idea than I first gave it credit. I was turned off by the new Ground weakness, but to think it rids him of 3 whole weaknesses for a new one... that's pretty awesome. Toxic immunity on a defensive Pokemon is just glorious, and Umbreon is going to absolutely love having said immunity (note that Umbreon already had Heal Bell to rid itself of status, but that's just one less status to worry about now). This is most likely going to get my vote.
Shift Gear Mega Aggron: Liking this idea, as Mega Aggron really needed a way to threaten foes. Having Dragon Dance 1.5 is a really neato approach to powering him up, but his low Speed won't let him outrun most things with a Scarf, and is just narrowly outran by base 150s, not that it really matters, but it's just to painfully close to being able to outrun them. But personally, I'd rather run regular Aggron, as having STAB Rock Head Head Smash or Heavy Metal Heavy Slam is what I would generally prefer.
Drizzle Noivern: On one hand, Noivern being able to spam Hurricane seems like a great idea, as his best attack was usually either not seen due to the weather nerf or kept missing and caused rage quits. On the other hand, Noivern has garbage Special Attack, even with a Choice Specs, and would only be able to threaten HO teams when their Deoxys-D is down, and even something with decent HP and Special Defense can avoid an OHKO from the Specs set. To put into perspective, if Alakazam, the Pokemon notorious for garbage bulk, can avoid an OHKO from Specs Noivern half the time, you know he has terrible power.
Tough Claws Honchkrow: As a "mindless offense" player, I can really appreciate this Theorymon. He pairs well with Bird Spam, taking out those that threaten Talonflame such as Tyranitar and Heatran with Superpower, and even Rotom-W can't avoid a 2HKO from two consecutive Superpowers. As Chou Toshio has explained, I can see a defensive set being pretty effective, living hits well enough while still dishing out tons of damage. It may be called a mindless offensive buff, but I still really love this idea, and would absolutely vote for him, but Poison / Dark Umbreon is worthy competition, so I'll have to think about it.
Shift Gear Mega Aggron: Liking this idea, as Mega Aggron really needed a way to threaten foes. Having Dragon Dance 1.5 is a really neato approach to powering him up, but his low Speed won't let him outrun most things with a Scarf, and is just narrowly outran by base 150s, not that it really matters, but it's just to painfully close to being able to outrun them. But personally, I'd rather run regular Aggron, as having STAB Rock Head Head Smash or Heavy Metal Heavy Slam is what I would generally prefer.
Drizzle Noivern: On one hand, Noivern being able to spam Hurricane seems like a great idea, as his best attack was usually either not seen due to the weather nerf or kept missing and caused rage quits. On the other hand, Noivern has garbage Special Attack, even with a Choice Specs, and would only be able to threaten HO teams when their Deoxys-D is down, and even something with decent HP and Special Defense can avoid an OHKO from the Specs set. To put into perspective, if Alakazam, the Pokemon notorious for garbage bulk, can avoid an OHKO from Specs Noivern half the time, you know he has terrible power.
Tough Claws Honchkrow: As a "mindless offense" player, I can really appreciate this Theorymon. He pairs well with Bird Spam, taking out those that threaten Talonflame such as Tyranitar and Heatran with Superpower, and even Rotom-W can't avoid a 2HKO from two consecutive Superpowers. As Chou Toshio has explained, I can see a defensive set being pretty effective, living hits well enough while still dishing out tons of damage. It may be called a mindless offensive buff, but I still really love this idea, and would absolutely vote for him, but Poison / Dark Umbreon is worthy competition, so I'll have to think about it.
Dark/Poison Umbreon - Dat single weakness tho. I'm not sure how much support it will gain considering the past failures of Poison Heal on it and Fur Coat Skuntank from last round, but it's definitely a good option and the Toxic immunity is excellent for a wall.
Shift Gear Mega Aggron - I don't think people are giving this enough credit. I run an offensive Mega Aggron with 252 HP/252+ Attack and Heavy Slam/EdgeQuake/DTail, and let me tell you, it puts in work. I previously ran Rock Polish on it over Dragon Tail to good effect, and being able to buff Megaggron's already reasonably high power while boosting is definitely a welcome addition. But I agree, regular Aggron would appreciate this more due to the insane power of Head Smash.
Drizzle Noivern - What it is with you guys and perfect accuracy Hurricane? We had No Guard Noivern suggested previously for the same reason. Thinking about it, it actually seems quite underpowered. Escarlata's calc shows that Noivern is not terribly powerful by itself, unlike the successful MegaYard, and with mediocre defenses and a SR weakness, it can't reliably come in to set up rain a bunch, even with a fast U-Turn.
Tough Claws Honchkrow - People use Honchkrow for Moxie afaik, and all it is is a mindless offensive and birdspam buff, neither of which we need.
Shift Gear Mega Aggron - I don't think people are giving this enough credit. I run an offensive Mega Aggron with 252 HP/252+ Attack and Heavy Slam/EdgeQuake/DTail, and let me tell you, it puts in work. I previously ran Rock Polish on it over Dragon Tail to good effect, and being able to buff Megaggron's already reasonably high power while boosting is definitely a welcome addition. But I agree, regular Aggron would appreciate this more due to the insane power of Head Smash.
Drizzle Noivern - What it is with you guys and perfect accuracy Hurricane? We had No Guard Noivern suggested previously for the same reason. Thinking about it, it actually seems quite underpowered. Escarlata's calc shows that Noivern is not terribly powerful by itself, unlike the successful MegaYard, and with mediocre defenses and a SR weakness, it can't reliably come in to set up rain a bunch, even with a fast U-Turn.
Tough Claws Honchkrow - People use Honchkrow for Moxie afaik, and all it is is a mindless offensive and birdspam buff, neither of which we need.
Dark/Poison Umbreon - Flavor wise it's hard to agree when Eeveelutions are supposed to be momotype, but it's hard to disagree with what an improvement it'd be. Umbreon is still usable already, but the Toxic immunity and fewer weaknesses do so much for it. STAB Foul Play is pretty damn good as a solo attack for a defensive mon, and Yawn causes headaches against so many other walls that would switch in, allowing you to do your thing and use Wish and Heal Bell. A solid choice.
Shift Gear Mega Aggron - Regarding some of the complaints, while STAB Head Smash hits like a truck on regular Aggron, it really isn't worth it when you consider your added priority weaknesses, worse defenses, and that you can't outrun Scarfchomp even with max speed investment after a single Shift Gear having to take that x4 Earthquake. Mega Aggron's typing and bulk are so much better than regular Aggron's and the super effective coverage so great he really doesn't need to rely on inaccurate Head Smash. He doesn't need the extra risk. With Jolly max Attack and 196 Speed EVs you can outpace Mega Manectric's Overheat/Flamethrower, which seems good to shoot for with only a single Shift Gear. This leaves 62 HP EVs.
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 62 HP / 0 Def Filter Mega Aggron: 117-139 (39.6 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 62 HP / 0 Def Filter Mega Aggron: 94-111 (31.8 - 37.6%) -- 81.9% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 62 HP / 0 Def Filter Mega Aggron: 55-67 (18.6 - 22.7%) -- possible 5HKO
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 62 HP / 0 Def Mega Aggron: 153-180 (52 - 61.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 62 HP / 0 Def Aggron: 396-468 (134.2 - 158.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 62 HP / 0 Def Aggron: 302-364 (102.3 - 123.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 62 HP / 0 Def Aggron: 184-220 (62.3 - 74.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 62 HP / 0 Def Aggron: 378-446 (128.5 - 151.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Look at that difference in bulk. It's ridiculous. Not to mention Head Smash is not doing you any favors against these opponents. Meanwhile +1 Ice/Fire Punch OHKO Garchomp and Breloom and Heavy Slam 2HKOs both Azumaril and Conkeldurr, or OHKO Azumaril after Stealth Rock or Belly Sitrus.
As for against Mega Scizor, while it does have Roost and Swords Dance it's super effective coverage is not as good as Aggron's and if you run both Swords Dance and Roost that only leaves Bullet Punch and one other. Plus Aggron's mono Steel typing and Filter help a ton against Fire attacks.
252 SpA Mega Manectric Flamethrower vs. 62 HP / 0 SpD Filter Mega Aggron: 183-216 (62.2 - 73.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Manectric Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Scizor: 404-476 (117.4 - 138.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Bullet Punch doesn't do you any favors here, since it's resisted, but Mega Aggron can outspeed and kill with Earthquake. Scizor may be able to stay around longer if played properly with Roost, but Aggron can just outright kill so many would be threats with the right SE move like Aegeslash, Heatran, Skarmory, Landorus, Landorus-I, Gliscor, Ferrothorn, etc with a combination of EQ, Ice Punch and Fire Punch alone. And of course you can always go bulkier and go for 2 Shift Gears instead.
Drizzle Noivern - Frankly, this is a bit unfair to Drought Torterra as this just screws him over lol. But seriously, I have no interest in buffing Rain.
Tough Claws Honchkrow - Not a change to the metagame I'm interested in making. It's hard sometimes cause like Chou mentioned some pokemon really just need an increase to a certain stat or two to be OU viable, not a type, move or ability change. This one is a bit too much and bird spam and heavy offense are kind of fine as they are already.
Shift Gear Mega Aggron - Regarding some of the complaints, while STAB Head Smash hits like a truck on regular Aggron, it really isn't worth it when you consider your added priority weaknesses, worse defenses, and that you can't outrun Scarfchomp even with max speed investment after a single Shift Gear having to take that x4 Earthquake. Mega Aggron's typing and bulk are so much better than regular Aggron's and the super effective coverage so great he really doesn't need to rely on inaccurate Head Smash. He doesn't need the extra risk. With Jolly max Attack and 196 Speed EVs you can outpace Mega Manectric's Overheat/Flamethrower, which seems good to shoot for with only a single Shift Gear. This leaves 62 HP EVs.
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 62 HP / 0 Def Filter Mega Aggron: 117-139 (39.6 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 62 HP / 0 Def Filter Mega Aggron: 94-111 (31.8 - 37.6%) -- 81.9% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 62 HP / 0 Def Filter Mega Aggron: 55-67 (18.6 - 22.7%) -- possible 5HKO
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 62 HP / 0 Def Mega Aggron: 153-180 (52 - 61.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 62 HP / 0 Def Aggron: 396-468 (134.2 - 158.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 62 HP / 0 Def Aggron: 302-364 (102.3 - 123.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 62 HP / 0 Def Aggron: 184-220 (62.3 - 74.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 62 HP / 0 Def Aggron: 378-446 (128.5 - 151.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Look at that difference in bulk. It's ridiculous. Not to mention Head Smash is not doing you any favors against these opponents. Meanwhile +1 Ice/Fire Punch OHKO Garchomp and Breloom and Heavy Slam 2HKOs both Azumaril and Conkeldurr, or OHKO Azumaril after Stealth Rock or Belly Sitrus.
As for against Mega Scizor, while it does have Roost and Swords Dance it's super effective coverage is not as good as Aggron's and if you run both Swords Dance and Roost that only leaves Bullet Punch and one other. Plus Aggron's mono Steel typing and Filter help a ton against Fire attacks.
252 SpA Mega Manectric Flamethrower vs. 62 HP / 0 SpD Filter Mega Aggron: 183-216 (62.2 - 73.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Manectric Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Scizor: 404-476 (117.4 - 138.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Bullet Punch doesn't do you any favors here, since it's resisted, but Mega Aggron can outspeed and kill with Earthquake. Scizor may be able to stay around longer if played properly with Roost, but Aggron can just outright kill so many would be threats with the right SE move like Aegeslash, Heatran, Skarmory, Landorus, Landorus-I, Gliscor, Ferrothorn, etc with a combination of EQ, Ice Punch and Fire Punch alone. And of course you can always go bulkier and go for 2 Shift Gears instead.
Drizzle Noivern - Frankly, this is a bit unfair to Drought Torterra as this just screws him over lol. But seriously, I have no interest in buffing Rain.
Tough Claws Honchkrow - Not a change to the metagame I'm interested in making. It's hard sometimes cause like Chou mentioned some pokemon really just need an increase to a certain stat or two to be OU viable, not a type, move or ability change. This one is a bit too much and bird spam and heavy offense are kind of fine as they are already.
Jacks0n
formerly grassycow
Actually I am really starting to like how umbreon is starting to look. Being able to take mega voir, gengar, thundy and keldeo all a lot better now, it would actually have some merit over chansey. With a much better defencive typing it also doesn't lose to sub taunt gengar, one of stalls biggest threats! This buff would be great for umbreon ,my vote probably goes for this.
Shift Gear Mega Aggron definitely sounds pretty great on paper but if you think about it, it is basically Mega-Ttar with a less balanced defense stats, stronger STAB, and same choice of coverage moves. (STAB + Ice Punch + EQ)
HP: 342
Atk: 640
Def: 336
SDef: 276
Spd: 397
Atk: 640
Def: 336
SDef: 276
Spd: 397
HP: 282
Atk: 624
Def: 496
SDef: 196
Spd: 398
Atk: 624
Def: 496
SDef: 196
Spd: 398
Drizzle Noivern is never meant to be spamming Hurricane. Giving any Flying/Dragon Drizzle pretty much makes a really great addition to rain. SR weakness is not that huge considering a rain team usually never needs to set up rain more than 4 times anyway. What really sets Drizzle Noivern apart from Drizzle anything else is a super fast Tailwind, which makes Rain teams fare much better against opposing rain teams, without having to rely on speed ties.
Sub Taunt Gengar runs WoW and Shadow Ball, so a Poison secondary typing makes zero difference when dealing with it. Just saying.
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Jacks0n
formerly grassycow
I know this, but now that it would be a lot more viable you would have a reason to use it over chansey because it gives no cares to sub taunt wisp gengar which usually destroys stall.
Alright, I've played with shift gear mega aggron on STABmons before, and I can say that it was a monster. He simply doesn't care about any physical attackers; after 1 boost, it wrecks entire unprepared teams with base 140 attack stat. His speed tier is perfect for outspeeding jolly talonflame and timid greninja at +2. It can beat most of the common physical wallbreakers in the tier bar mega medicham and intimidate mega gyarados.
Yeah, we have these arguments about mega tyranitar doing it a bit more reliably, but it's really a matter of matchups. Aggron can deal with azumarill, conkeldurr, terrakion, breloom, etc., at full health while tyranitar can't. Tyranitar can deal with strong special attacks, unlike mega aggron.
You simply can't OHKO this thing with a physical move, unless your name is mega medicham. Shift gear Mega Aggron has some great potential though.
252+ Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Filter Mega Aggron: 229-271 (81.4 - 96.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (kill with iron head)
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Filter Mega Aggron: 204-243 (72.5 - 86.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (set up a shift gear and kill with eq)
+2 252 Atk Mega Pinsir Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Filter Mega Aggron: 178-210 (63.3 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (shift gear and kill with rock slide)
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Filter Mega Aggron: 168-199 (59.7 - 70.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (shift gear and kill with rock slide)
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Aggron: 192-226 (68.3 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (you can kill the shield form with 2 eqs)
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Filter Mega Aggron: 204-243 (72.5 - 86.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (set up a shift gear and kill with eq)
+2 252 Atk Mega Pinsir Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Filter Mega Aggron: 178-210 (63.3 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (shift gear and kill with rock slide)
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Filter Mega Aggron: 168-199 (59.7 - 70.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (shift gear and kill with rock slide)
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Aggron: 192-226 (68.3 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (you can kill the shield form with 2 eqs)
Yeah, we have these arguments about mega tyranitar doing it a bit more reliably, but it's really a matter of matchups. Aggron can deal with azumarill, conkeldurr, terrakion, breloom, etc., at full health while tyranitar can't. Tyranitar can deal with strong special attacks, unlike mega aggron.
You simply can't OHKO this thing with a physical move, unless your name is mega medicham. Shift gear Mega Aggron has some great potential though.
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