OU Tornadus-T (Assault Vest)

Jukain

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BIG BIRD

This is Tornadus-T's best set in the metagame, dragonuser has said that he is too busy to put it in the analysis so I'm doing it. EVs courtesy of Dice.

Assault Vest
########
name: Assault Vest
move 1: Hurricane
move 2: Focus Blast
move 3: Knock Off
move 4: U-turn
item: Assault Vest
evs: 132 HP / 160 SpA / 216 Spe
nature: Timid

Moves
========

Hurricane is Tornadus-T's STAB attack and largest source of damage; the accuracy is a necessary evil because the only alternative is Air Slash, which can't even KO Keldeo. Focus Blast provides important coverage on Pokemon that resist Flying, such as Tyranitar and Heatran, and 2HKOes Ferrothorn. Knock Off is a major detriment to most defensive switch-ins to Tornadus-T, especially because it threatens Mega Venusaur greatly, one of the best Mega Evolutions for balanced and bulky offensive teams. It can get rid of Heatran's Leftovers or Chansey's Eviolite, for example, to allow Tornadus-T and its teammates to break through them more easily. It also lets Tornadus-T function as a more effective Landorus check, getting rid of its Life Orb, which is a huge source of power for it. U-turn rounds out the set perfectly, as it is simply a great move, working well in tandem with Regenerator to let Tornadus-T pivot out of threatening Pokemon and keep the momentum in its team's favor whilst it is healed.

Heat Wave particularly annihilates Ferrothorn and Skarmory, but Focus Blast already 2HKOes both, and the loss of coverage on Heatran and Tyranitar is significant. Superpower is a potential option over Focus Blast for a 100% accurate Fighting-type coverage move that does more damage to Tyranitar and Heatran; however, it does barely anything to Ferrothorn and moreover forces Tornadus-T to run a Hasty nature for it to have a decent damage output, which unnecessarily compromises its physical bulk.

Set Details
========

The EVs give Tornadus-T a guaranteed OHKO on Keldeo with Hurricane whilst allowing it to outspeed Choice Scarf Tyranitar and still having some bulk to take on the likes of Landorus and Choice Specs Keldeo better. The choice of a Timid nature over Hasty might seem odd, as this set has two physical moves; the reasoning is that neither is used for its power or coverage, but for pure utility, meaning the decrease in physical bulk is not worth a slightly increased damage output.

Usage Tips
========

The function of this Tornadus-T is to pivot into special attackers, most notably handling Landorus admirably and checking Keldeo: it takes about 65% from Choice Specs Hydro Pump and is able to threaten an OHKO in return with Hurricane. As the opponent switches out to some sort of defensive answer, Knock Off is usually the best option to cripple it, and then Tornadus-T should U-turn out to get Regenerator recovery. If Tornadus-T has already gotten rid of the threat's item, or you don't want something like Mega Charizard X or Mega Mawile to pick up the momentum, then a flat U-turn is the best option. If you see that the opponent doesn't really have any good switch-ins, then firing off a Hurricane is a good option. Most of the time, however, Tornadus-T's best move is U-turn, as it has literally zero downsides, giving its team momentum and Tornadus-T back a good chunk of its health.

Team Options
========

One of this Tornadus-T's primary roles is as a Landorus check for stall, which tends to have enormous issues with it. Defog support from the likes of Skarmory or Mandibuzz is very much appreciated, as even with Regenerator, Stealth Rock is simply too much of a detriment to Tornadus-T's hit-taking ability and longevity. Skarmory pairs especially well because it can deal with Tyranitar, which isn't OHKOed by Focus Blast and can tank Tornadus-T's other moves with ease. Furthermore, it can deal with Gyarados and Dragonite, which can take advantage of Tornadus-T to set up. Although irrelevant to Defog, Ferrothorn also fits well because it can handle these threats. Mandibuzz in conjunction with Tornadus-T ensures that you are mostly safe against Landorus, although it is slightly redundant. Bulky Will-O-Wisp Mega Charizard X, as well as Heatran to some extent, are good partners too, as they are able to put pressure on the Steel-types that stand in Tornadus-T's way. A good Mega Charizard X check of your own is imperative with Tornadus-T, which is complete setup fodder for the former barring confusion from Hurricane. Hippowdon, Quagsire, and Slowbro are good examples of such. Amoonguss can handle the Electric-types that threaten Tornadus-T and serves as a more reliable answer to Keldeo, forming a Regenerator core with Tornadus-T that can pivot around threats and generally stay healthy without giving up free turns to heal. Slowbro can be added to this core in order to take on Mega Charizard X, Mega Gyarados, and other attackers that threaten it.

From a balanced and bulky offensive point of view, Tornadus-T pairs well with Mega Manectric and Raikou; the Electric-types cover Thundurus especially, while Tornadus-T deals with defensive Grass-types, most notably Mega Venusaur, and can check the Ground-type Choice Scarf users that threaten them. It can also fit well onto certain rain teams that want its defensive services, greatly appreciating perfect accuracy on Hurricane, but it is simply too weak as compared to Life Orb variants, which are much more difficult to deal with and typically the better option for an offensive rain team.
 
Last edited:

shrang

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Maybe explain what 132 HP does? Personally, I think if it's just Leftover EVs, you may as well use max SpA since Torn-T is still primarily an attacker and likes SpA more than bulk (you already have AV to make it pretty bulky anyway)
 

CyclicCompound

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Just a few nitpicks.
countering Landorus
Knock Off + Psychic actually stands a very decent chance to 2HKO Tornadus-T without SR. On its own, Psychic has a chance to 2HKO Tornadus after SR. I think "counter" would be a too strong a word, seeing as Tornadus-T only does about 65% max with Hurricane, "check" would be more appropriate.

Mention Rapid Spin support in addition to just Defog support—while Defog support is nice, it tends to stack a lot of weaknesses with Tornadus-T unless you're using Scizor or something.

Amoonguss seems like the first teammate of choice for Slowbro and Tornadus-T due to its access to Regenerator, but I've found Ferrothorn to be a very good component of that core as well. I'd definitely mention it alongside Amoonguss.

Agreeing with Shrang that unless 132 HP EVs is some kind of defensive benchmark, it should be shifted to Special Attack.
 

alexwolf

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The HP EVs are definitely needed in order for Tornadus-T to handle Landorus, Mega Venusaur, Gengar, and Keldeo as good as possible. Here are some important calcs:
  • 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Psychic vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tornadus-T: 110-131 (33.1 - 39.4%) -- 19.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
  • 252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 132 HP / 0- Def Tornadus-T: 139-164 (41.8 - 49.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (i will explain later why a -Def nature is used)
  • 252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tornadus-T: 112-133 (33.7 - 40%) -- 35.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
  • 252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Scald vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tornadus-T: 142-168 (42.7 - 50.6%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
Tornadus-T is more important as a pivot than a special attacker, and the EV spread should reflect that. Torn-T is supposed to lure in certain attacks for the rest of the team to switch into and not handle those special attackers on its own, because SR and 70% accuracy on Hurricane make it really hard. OHKOing Keldeo is all that Torn-T needs in terms of power, and the added bulk is really important.

Also, i would like to see Superpower slashed after Focus Blast, alongside a Hasty nature. Tell me whatever you want, but Torn-T is almost unusable with its two most powerful moves having 70% accuracy, and the rest of its moves being weak as fuck and further hindered by a -Atk nature. Not to mention that Superpower already OHKO / 2HKOes most of the stuff that it should, and it actually hits some Pokemon harder, such as SpD Heatran and Chansey, which loses ~50% after you remove its Eviolite with Knock Off. And the Attack is really appreciated on both U-turn and Knock Off, as it makes wearing down your checks way easier.
 

Gary

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If using Knock Off, shouldn't the nature be Hasty?
The point of Knock Off isn't to deal as much damage as possible, it's to cripple the opponent by knocking off their item. The extra damage output is always helpful but unless there are very notable damage calcs (which there are not) then there's no reason to compromise Tornadus-T's bulk for a little extra damage.
 
Mega Manectric is a decent partner with Intimidate to make a VoltTurn core and Manectric can absorb an Electric attack before megavolving and Tornadus-T is immune to Earthquake. The other benefit is that Timid Mega Manectric just barely outspeeds Scarf Excadrill in addition to Greninja, two pokemon that are very dangerous to Tornadus-T. If it's a Sand Rush Excadrill though than Rotom-W makes a good partner who can burn physical threats or just kill Excadrill with Hydro Pump. An Excadrill of your own makes a good partner for Rapid Spin as well as able to handle Rock and Electric attacks with aplomb, while Tornadus-T is great for the special attacks as well as Ground and Fighting moves.
 
Mega Manectric is a decent partner with Intimidate to make a VoltTurn core and Manectric can absorb an Electric attack before megavolving and Tornadus-T is immune to Earthquake. The other benefit is that Timid Mega Manectric just barely outspeeds Scarf Excadrill in addition to Greninja, two pokemon that are very dangerous to Tornadus-T. If it's a Sand Rush Excadrill though than Rotom-W makes a good partner who can burn physical threats or just kill Excadrill with Hydro Pump. An Excadrill of your own makes a good partner for Rapid Spin as well as able to handle Rock and Electric attacks with aplomb, while Tornadus-T is great for the special attacks as well as Ground and Fighting moves.
Mega Manectric is actually outsped by Scarf Excadrill. Adamant versions hit 412 speed at +1 while Timid Mega Manectric caps at 405. I'm guessing you were getting Mega Manectric's speed stat confused with that of Mega Alakazam and Mega Aerodactyl (which are still outsped by Jolly Scarf Excadrill but at least beat Adamant variants).

Although, I do agree that Mega Manectric sounds like a pretty solid teammate.
 

Jukain

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- Superpower is a usable for a 100% accurate Fighting move that does more damage to Tyranitar and Heatran; however it does absolute garbage to Ferrothorn and forces Torn-T to compromise its physical bulk by running a Hasty nature to be effective

I'm not moving it any higher than Moves basically for the reasons mentioned here. You mentioned Chansey but there's absolutely no reason Chansey would ever switch into you because every Torn-T has Knock Off, and I really don't think the loss of damage vs Ferro + having to run a Hasty nature are worth it.

Mentioned Mega Mane as well as AV Raikou as teammates.
 
Mega Manectric is actually outsped by Scarf Excadrill. Adamant versions hit 412 speed at +1 while Timid Mega Manectric caps at 405. I'm guessing you were getting Mega Manectric's speed stat confused with that of Mega Alakazam and Mega Aerodactyl (which are still outsped by Jolly Scarf Excadrill but at least beat Adamant variants).

Although, I do agree that Mega Manectric sounds like a pretty solid teammate.
You're right, not sure how I miscalced that.
 

alexwolf

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I really think that having only 70% accurate moves as your main source of damage is unacceptable (Knock Off and U-turn do nothing, especially with a Timid nature), but maybe that's just me... Whatever.
 

tehy

Banned deucer.
- Superpower is a usable for a 100% accurate Fighting move that does more damage to Tyranitar and Heatran; however it does absolute garbage to Ferrothorn and forces Torn-T to compromise its physical bulk by running a Hasty nature to be effective

I'm not moving it any higher than Moves basically for the reasons mentioned here. You mentioned Chansey but there's absolutely no reason Chansey would ever switch into you because every Torn-T has Knock Off, and I really don't think the loss of damage vs Ferro + having to run a Hasty nature are worth it.

Mentioned Mega Mane as well as AV Raikou as teammates.
Yes, there's absolutely no reason Chansey would switch into a mon it walls. Especially when the rest of its team might have problems with it.

No reason at all...

Look, my Chansey isn't exactly my first choice for a tornadus-t switch-in. But it is my second, and one i might take if i have to. So, just saying...
 
Odds are the answer is no but would it be worthwhile to maximize speed to out-speed Alakazam (248 speed with the rest in HP maximizes the damage he takes from Stealth Rocks) so it can U-Turn out before Psyshock shaves off about half of it's health (I know it has regenerator but what if it's in OHKO range).
 
Odds are the answer is no but would it be worthwhile to maximize speed to out-speed Alakazam (248 speed with the rest in HP maximizes the damage he takes from Stealth Rocks) so it can U-Turn out before Psyshock shaves off about half of it's health (I know it has regenerator but what if it's in OHKO range).
No, because Alakazam isn't common enough to warrant such a Speed increase.
 
I'm not 100% certain this is how it works but would setting Tornadus-T's EVs to 124 HP/4 Def/160 SAtk/4 SDef/216 Spe work at all. It retains similar bulk while also having an HP value that is a multiple of 3 theoretically maximizing Regenerator recovery. I'm not fully certain it works this way though.
 
u said there's only 2 viable defensive mega evolutions, but that is just subjective so leave it out. aggron, stalk ampharos, etc. are viable as well so don't put a #

this seems fine

approved 3/3
 

horyzhnz

[10:02:17 AM] flcl: its hory xD
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Jukain
add or change
remove

Assault Vest
########
name: Assault Vest
move 1: Hurricane
move 2: Focus Blast
move 3: Knock Off
move 4: U-turn
item: Assault Vest
evs: 132 HP / 160 SpA / 216 Spe
nature: Timid

Moves
========

Hurricane is Tornadus-T's STAB attack and largest source of damage; the accuracy is a necessary evil because the only alternative is Air Slash, which can't even KO Keldeo. Focus Blast provides important coverage on Flying resists, such as Tyranitar and Heatran, and 2HKOes Ferrothorn. Knock Off is a major detriment to most defensive switch-ins to Tornadus-T, especially because it threatens Mega Venusaur greatly, one of the best Mega Evolutions for balanced and bulky offensive teams. It can get rid of Heatran's Leftovers or Chansey's Eviolite, for example, to allow Tornadus-T and its teammates to break through them more easily. It also lets it Tornadus-T function as a more effective Landorus check, getting rid of its Life Orb, which is a huge source of power for it. U-turn rounds out the set as simply a great move is a great move to round out the set, working well in tandem with Regenerator to pivot out of threatening Pokemon, keeping the momentum in its team's favor whilst it is healed.

Heat Wave particularly annihilates Ferrothorn and Skarmory, but Focus Blast already 2HKOes both, and the loss of coverage on Heatran and Tyranitar is significant. Superpower is a potential option over Focus Blast as for a 100% accurate Fighting-type coverage move that does more damage to Tyranitar and Heatran; however, it does barely anything to Ferrothorn, and moreover also forces Tornadus-T to run a Hasty nature for it to have a decent damage output, which unnecessarily compromises its physical bulk.

Set Details
========

The EVs give Tornadus-T a guaranteed OHKO on Keldeo with Hurricane whilst outspeeding Choice Scarf Tyranitar,(AC) while still and having some bulk to tank take on the likes of Landorus and Choice Specs Keldeo better. The choice of a Timid nature over Hasty might seem odd, as this set has two physical moves; the reasoning is that neither is used for its power or coverage, but for pure utility, at which point the decrease in physical bulk is not worth a slightly increased damage output.

Usage Tips
========

The function of this Tornadus-T is to pivot into special attackers, most notably handling Landorus admirably and checking Keldeo, taking about 65% from Choice Specs Hydro Pump and able to threaten an OHKO in return with Hurricane. As the opponent switches out to some sort of defensive answer, usually Knock Off is usually the best option to cripple it, then U-turn out to get Regenerator recovery. If you have already gotten rid of the threat's item,(RC) or you don't want something like Mega Charizard X or Mega Mawile to pick up the momentum, then a flat U-turn is the best option. If you see that the opponent doesn't really have any good switch-ins, then firing off a Hurricane is a good option. Most of the time, however, Tornadus-T's best move is U-turn, as it has literally zero downsides, giving its team momentum and Tornadus-T back a good chunk of its health.

Team Options
========

One of this Tornadus-T's primary roles is as a Landorus check for stall, which tends to have enormous issues with it. Defog support from the likes of Skarmory or Mandibuzz is very much so appreciated, as even with Regenerator, Stealth Rock is simply too much of a detriment to its hit-taking ability and longevity. Skarmory pairs especially well because it can deal with Tyranitar, which despite Focus Blast manages to remain as a pain for Tornadus-T to defeat because it doesn't OHKO, and can tank its other moves with ease. Furthermore, it can deal with Gyarados and Dragonite, which can take advantage of Tornadus-T to set up. Although irrelevant to Defog, Ferrothorn also fits well because it can handle these threats. Mandibuzz in conjunction with Tornadus-T ensures that you are mostly safe against Landorus, although it is slightly redundant. Bulky Will-O-Wisp Mega Charizard X, as well as Heatran to some extent, are good partners,(RC) too, as they are able to put pressure on the Steel-types that stand in Tornadus-T's way. A good Mega Charizard X check of your own is imperative with Tornadus-T, as bar a Hurricane confusion, it is complete setup fodder for it. Hippowdon, Quagsire, and Slowbro are good examples of such. Amoonguss can handle the Electric-types that threaten Tornadus-T and serves as a reliable answer to Keldeo in conjunction with it as a check to cover it really well, forming a Regenerator core with it that can pivot around threats and generally stay healthy without giving up free turns to heal. Slowbro can also potentially be added to this core.

From a balanced and bulky offensive point of view, Tornadus-T pairs well with Mega Manectric and Raikou; the Electric-types cover Thundurus especially, while Tornadus-T deals with defensive Grass-types, most notably Mega Venusaur, and can check the Ground-type Choice Scarf users that threaten them. It can also fit well onto certain rain teams that want its defensive services, greatly appreciating perfect accuracy on Hurricane, but it is simply too weak to compared to Life Orb variants, which are much more difficult to deal with and typically the better option for an offensively-minded rain team.

minimal changes; nicely done :]

GP 1/2

 

Jukain

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Jukain
add or change
remove

Assault Vest
########
name: Assault Vest
move 1: Hurricane
move 2: Focus Blast
move 3: Knock Off
move 4: U-turn
item: Assault Vest
evs: 132 HP / 160 SpA / 216 Spe
nature: Timid

Moves
========

Hurricane is Tornadus-T's STAB attack and largest source of damage; the accuracy is a necessary evil because the only alternative is Air Slash, which can't even KO Keldeo. Focus Blast provides important coverage on Flying resists, such as Tyranitar and Heatran, and 2HKOes Ferrothorn. Knock Off is a major detriment to most defensive switch-ins to Tornadus-T, especially because it threatens Mega Venusaur greatly, one of the best Mega Evolutions for balanced and bulky offensive teams. It can get rid of Heatran's Leftovers or Chansey's Eviolite, for example, to allow Tornadus-T and its teammates to break through them more easily. It also lets it Tornadus-T function as a more effective Landorus check, getting rid of its Life Orb, which is a huge source of power for it. U-turn rounds out the set as simply a great move is a great move to round out the set, working well in tandem with Regenerator to pivot out of threatening Pokemon, keeping the momentum in its team's favor whilst it is healed.

Heat Wave particularly annihilates Ferrothorn and Skarmory, but Focus Blast already 2HKOes both, and the loss of coverage on Heatran and Tyranitar is significant. Superpower is a potential option over Focus Blast as for a 100% accurate Fighting-type coverage move that does more damage to Tyranitar and Heatran; however, it does barely anything to Ferrothorn, and moreover also forces Tornadus-T to run a Hasty nature for it to have a decent damage output, which unnecessarily compromises its physical bulk.

Set Details
========

The EVs give Tornadus-T a guaranteed OHKO on Keldeo with Hurricane whilst outspeeding Choice Scarf Tyranitar,(AC) while still and having some bulk to tank take on the likes of Landorus and Choice Specs Keldeo better. The choice of a Timid nature over Hasty might seem odd, as this set has two physical moves; the reasoning is that neither is used for its power or coverage, but for pure utility, at which point the decrease in physical bulk is not worth a slightly increased damage output.

Usage Tips
========

The function of this Tornadus-T is to pivot into special attackers, most notably handling Landorus admirably and checking Keldeo, taking about 65% from Choice Specs Hydro Pump and able to threaten an OHKO in return with Hurricane. As the opponent switches out to some sort of defensive answer, usually Knock Off is usually the best option to cripple it, then U-turn out to get Regenerator recovery. If you have already gotten rid of the threat's item,(RC) or you don't want something like Mega Charizard X or Mega Mawile to pick up the momentum, then a flat U-turn is the best option. If you see that the opponent doesn't really have any good switch-ins, then firing off a Hurricane is a good option. Most of the time, however, Tornadus-T's best move is U-turn, as it has literally zero downsides, giving its team momentum and Tornadus-T back a good chunk of its health.

Team Options
========

One of this Tornadus-T's primary roles is as a Landorus check for stall, which tends to have enormous issues with it. Defog support from the likes of Skarmory or Mandibuzz is very much so appreciated, as even with Regenerator, Stealth Rock is simply too much of a detriment to its hit-taking ability and longevity. Skarmory pairs especially well because it can deal with Tyranitar, which despite Focus Blast manages to remain as a pain for Tornadus-T to defeat because it doesn't OHKO, and can tank its other moves with ease. Furthermore, it can deal with Gyarados and Dragonite, which can take advantage of Tornadus-T to set up. Although irrelevant to Defog, Ferrothorn also fits well because it can handle these threats. Mandibuzz in conjunction with Tornadus-T ensures that you are mostly safe against Landorus, although it is slightly redundant. Bulky Will-O-Wisp Mega Charizard X, as well as Heatran to some extent, are good partners,(RC) too, as they are able to put pressure on the Steel-types that stand in Tornadus-T's way. A good Mega Charizard X check of your own is imperative with Tornadus-T, as bar a Hurricane confusion, it is complete setup fodder for it. Hippowdon, Quagsire, and Slowbro are good examples of such. Amoonguss can handle the Electric-types that threaten Tornadus-T and serves as a reliable answer to Keldeo in conjunction with it as a check to cover it really well, forming a Regenerator core with it that can pivot around threats and generally stay healthy without giving up free turns to heal. Slowbro can also potentially be added to this core.

From a balanced and bulky offensive point of view, Tornadus-T pairs well with Mega Manectric and Raikou; the Electric-types cover Thundurus especially, while Tornadus-T deals with defensive Grass-types, most notably Mega Venusaur, and can check the Ground-type Choice Scarf users that threaten them. It can also fit well onto certain rain teams that want its defensive services, greatly appreciating perfect accuracy on Hurricane, but it is simply too weak to compared to Life Orb variants, which are much more difficult to deal with and typically the better option for an offensively-minded rain team.

minimal changes; nicely done :]

GP 1/2

thanks for the check

i didn't implement a few changes i disagreed with/changed the intent of what i was saying:
U-turn rounds out the set as simply a great move is a great move to round out the set, working well in tandem with Regenerator to pivot out of threatening Pokemon, keeping the momentum in its team's favor whilst it is healed.
this just sounded weird to me, as it implies that there are other options/choices for that slot but in actuality there aren't, so i left it as-is.
and moreover also forces Tornadus-T to run a Hasty nature for it to have a decent damage output, which unnecessarily compromises its physical bulk.
i use moreover because this is perhaps the most significant factor in picking superpower being a poor option; 'also' does not have this same meaning
Slowbro can also potentially be added to this core.
the addition of 'also' just seemed unnecessary to me, plus i didn't include any other extra things to add to this core and it just sounds kinda clunky overall imo.
 

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