EnerG you do realize that logic is really out of whack right? Having to use the same pokemon on EVERY team because It beats itself 50% of the time is not very healthy for the meta at all. Basically every team has to be spikes offence which is fucking dumb. Everyone could use something like Kyurem and it wouldn't be broken since another Kyurem can OHKO it ith draco meteor right?
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Metagame NP: RU Stage 1: Dog Days Are Over / Hello Kitty
- Thread starter Molk
- Start date
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breh
強いだね
a running joke about OU kanga meta was that it was not broken because you could use it too
jolteon will be fun but I don't know if I wanna replace heliolisk with it.. it outspeeds base 115s though :)
Yes.
Hey everyone, i'd just like everyone to know that the reqs have changed!
The new requirement is COIL > 2400.
COIL is a measure that's determined based on your GXE and your number of battles, so there's no need to reset the ladder--everyone's COIL score has been calculated retroactively.
We're using a B value of 20, which means that the minimum GXE you'll need to get reqs is 60. What follows is a table giving the number of battles you'll need to get reqs based on your GXE:
thanks to antar for the COIL curve and giving me what to post here =)
The new requirement is COIL > 2400.
COIL is a measure that's determined based on your GXE and your number of battles, so there's no need to reset the ladder--everyone's COIL score has been calculated retroactively.
We're using a B value of 20, which means that the minimum GXE you'll need to get reqs is 60. What follows is a table giving the number of battles you'll need to get reqs based on your GXE:
- If your GXE is 100, you'll need only 28 battles to get reqs
- 90: 35
- 80: 49
- 75: 63
- 70: 90
- 65: 174
thanks to antar for the COIL curve and giving me what to post here =)
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Kay time to do 174 battles before the suspect is over :(
Two questions:
- Do you still need the 2550 Elo? Because I feel getting 2400 COIL isn't that hard
- When will the voter's identification thread open?
MikeDawg
Banned deucer.
1. no
2. 3 days before exactly 2 weeks from the start of the suspect test
Following up on breh 's point about Jolteon and Heliolisk, I think it will come down to two simple things. Do you need Heliolisk's coverage, or do you need Jolteon's raw Speed? Both have virtually identical power behind their moves, with the primary difference being Heliolisk's solid coverage and Jolteon's blinding Speed.
Haven't checked my COIL yet tbh, but I sure as heck hope it isn't the one that requires 100+ battles since many of you probably know I don't care too much for laddering, even if it is for a suspect test in my favorite tier...
Haven't checked my COIL yet tbh, but I sure as heck hope it isn't the one that requires 100+ battles since many of you probably know I don't care too much for laddering, even if it is for a suspect test in my favorite tier...
つ ◕_◕ ༽つ come come kitty kitty つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
Well i'm fairly new to RU but i'm just going to post my thoughts about the tier.
First off, I think stick web is the most broken thing in the tier. Shuckle @ Mental Herb can set it up vs every team with no problem at all. Having it paired with Pokemon like Exploud, Hitmonlee, Specs Magneton and other heavy hitters that are able to apply enough pressure that it's nearly impossible to get off the field. Since as far as I can tell the best spinner in the tier is Hitmonlee... and Golbat as a defogger doesn't fit well on offensive teams. Making it a nearly impossible matchup for offensive teams. I'd also like to say RU has my stamp of approval and is fun tier :]
Well i'm fairly new to RU but i'm just going to post my thoughts about the tier.
First off, I think stick web is the most broken thing in the tier. Shuckle @ Mental Herb can set it up vs every team with no problem at all. Having it paired with Pokemon like Exploud, Hitmonlee, Specs Magneton and other heavy hitters that are able to apply enough pressure that it's nearly impossible to get off the field. Since as far as I can tell the best spinner in the tier is Hitmonlee... and Golbat as a defogger doesn't fit well on offensive teams. Making it a nearly impossible matchup for offensive teams. I'd also like to say RU has my stamp of approval and is fun tier :]
I don't think Froslass should be banned because it's a great lead and with it gone everyone will use teams with walls :3
Yanmega, Zangoose, Exploud and many more are wonderful wallbreakers, saying that we shouldn't ban Froslass because of walls is not a valid argument.
Well RU has a lot of different play styles and I would hate to see just defensive teams. Imo
My perspective so far is that Froslass and Sticky Web as a whole are just absurdly good. Haven't minded Jolteon one bit.
I've used llamas RMT and a team TRC linked on IRC and had a lot of fun with the tier. I've also used my own hail team from pre-Kyurem ban with a Jynx in its place. Offense seems to totally dominate the tier, though Sticky Web teams beat more traditional offense handily. I'd like to see a more balanced metagame develop and removing Froslass would be the first part of that. Looking forward to the vote.
I've used llamas RMT and a team TRC linked on IRC and had a lot of fun with the tier. I've also used my own hail team from pre-Kyurem ban with a Jynx in its place. Offense seems to totally dominate the tier, though Sticky Web teams beat more traditional offense handily. I'd like to see a more balanced metagame develop and removing Froslass would be the first part of that. Looking forward to the vote.
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you joined in 2013... you have no right to call me that ¬_¬
I get the concern, but I don't feel that would happen. Maybe it's just a weird comparison, but right now, I'm kind of viewing Froslass in Xy like I did Nidoqueen in BW2.
So, quick history lesson for those of you not around for BW2 Nidoqueen era, Queen made it damn hard to use Stall due to the fact that it had incredible coverage, great power, and due to Sheer Force, could hold Life Orb for no cost. She was also hard to wear down since she was immune to Toxic. When Nidoqueen left the tier, Stall was viable, but it wasn't an overwhelming force in the metagame.
With that out of the way, take a moment and look at Froslass. With the ease that it sets up Spikes, it makes life really difficult for defensive teams as they generally are greatly pressured by Spikes. Thanks to the offensive nature of Froslass's team, it can be difficult for the likes of Gligar, Golbat, and Togetic to get off a Defog unless they're able to find a way in on something that simply can't get past them. Froslass is an amazing Pokemon and does wonders to help offensive teams thrive in the tier. But on the flip side, it puts a serious strain on any defensive-minded team and makes it much more difficult to use them effectively. Even on the balance team that I've been using thus far, I've been having some major issues with Froslass, so much so that I've tried using Jolteon over Heliolisk just to outspeed the damn thing and keep it at a single layer, even though my primary sweeper is ass-weak to Rhyperior (something Heliolisk easily preys on) I'm really starting to lean toward it needing to go, but maybe I just haven't played enough games yet.
So people are finally realizing how really strong/broken Sticky Web is.. it's so easy to apply pressure onto opposing teams with Sticky Web, and Shuckle is such a good consistent user of it.
And CB Braviary leaves the opponent two choices: sac their defogger to get rid of SR/SW or both (in which case Shuckle can come in later and lay them down again, easily) or not Defog because Braviary exists and let the other team members get fucked, I'll leave these two important calcs:
+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Braviary Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Golbat: 373-439 (105.3 - 124%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Braviary Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 288-340 (86.2 - 101.7%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
And if they don't have a defogger, and instead a spinner (aka lee or top) then they're not too hard to handle for SW teams.
I definitely need some more experience with it before making any statements though, but for now, I'm a little bit leaning towards the fact that it is broken a bit. I know that we're still suspect testing Froslass, but it's just food for thought for now.
And CB Braviary leaves the opponent two choices: sac their defogger to get rid of SR/SW or both (in which case Shuckle can come in later and lay them down again, easily) or not Defog because Braviary exists and let the other team members get fucked, I'll leave these two important calcs:
+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Braviary Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Golbat: 373-439 (105.3 - 124%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Braviary Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 288-340 (86.2 - 101.7%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
And if they don't have a defogger, and instead a spinner (aka lee or top) then they're not too hard to handle for SW teams.
I definitely need some more experience with it before making any statements though, but for now, I'm a little bit leaning towards the fact that it is broken a bit. I know that we're still suspect testing Froslass, but it's just food for thought for now.
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Best response yet and I have to say as good as Froslass is I barely even see it tbh
Exactly this goes for me as well jeez.
I'd agree with EonX but then I remember the uprising of the pink shit known as Alomomola at the end of BW...
I've faced Froslass here and there and I found it rather underwhelming. Granted, I used a bit of Volt-turn and used offense but still. If the sash is broken due volt-switch or whatever, a faster mon that gets in effectively shuts it down. I mean, it has very little bulk, so it won't survive the hit. Shuckle wasn't an issue either, just wearing it down and then spinning the web away. It's probably due the low skill of the ladder or my playstyle or something, but I haven't lost against Frosslass or Shuckle teams on the ladder.
That said, Frosslass will make life hell for slow stall teams that simply can't afford fast Volt-turning mons or Cincinno. Common stall defoggers either get one shotted by Ice Beam (Gligar) or forced into a 50/50 with Taunt (Golbat) with Cursed Body looming over that on top. The necessary counter measures against it, much like against Nidoqueen, need to be fast and strong, the complete opposite of a Stall team's usual members. The result; an offensive inclined metagame with little room for more defensive playstyles that can't handle Frosslass Spikes offense. At least in the Queen meta, one had the option to run things like Cryoganol to keep Queen in check, while still fitting in a stall team. In order to take care of Frosslass, one needs to either use Cincinno (who doesn't do jack to help the team synergy) or sacking a mon that has substantial uses to take it out (E.g. Rhyperior), which would leave the team open to stuff like Braviary and Emboar, in this case.
I still need to battle more to make sure, but honestly, once people start using Frosslass properly, stall is going to be as rare in RU as good battlers on the ladder.
I've faced Froslass here and there and I found it rather underwhelming. Granted, I used a bit of Volt-turn and used offense but still. If the sash is broken due volt-switch or whatever, a faster mon that gets in effectively shuts it down. I mean, it has very little bulk, so it won't survive the hit. Shuckle wasn't an issue either, just wearing it down and then spinning the web away. It's probably due the low skill of the ladder or my playstyle or something, but I haven't lost against Frosslass or Shuckle teams on the ladder.
That said, Frosslass will make life hell for slow stall teams that simply can't afford fast Volt-turning mons or Cincinno. Common stall defoggers either get one shotted by Ice Beam (Gligar) or forced into a 50/50 with Taunt (Golbat) with Cursed Body looming over that on top. The necessary counter measures against it, much like against Nidoqueen, need to be fast and strong, the complete opposite of a Stall team's usual members. The result; an offensive inclined metagame with little room for more defensive playstyles that can't handle Frosslass Spikes offense. At least in the Queen meta, one had the option to run things like Cryoganol to keep Queen in check, while still fitting in a stall team. In order to take care of Frosslass, one needs to either use Cincinno (who doesn't do jack to help the team synergy) or sacking a mon that has substantial uses to take it out (E.g. Rhyperior), which would leave the team open to stuff like Braviary and Emboar, in this case.
I still need to battle more to make sure, but honestly, once people start using Frosslass properly, stall is going to be as rare in RU as good battlers on the ladder.
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