Resource RU Viability Ranking

[ss234]

helo I would like to propose moving aromatisse to a / a+. Atm it's a-, but honestly it's prolly the best supporter in the whole tier and easily the best cleric. It's not even that bad offensively for a wall-moonblast is a good STAB that hits lee, zoro etc. for a kill or big damage. Obviously it's going to lose to stuff like esca and delphox and can't rlly do anything back, which is why it's not s. But yeah it's a complete staple on stall because status is fuckin everywhere, it deals with yanmega without rocks up as well as loads of other shit and it's a special wall that isn't forced out by lee or taunt. You can run it with phys def or full out special too. V good mon and should be used a lot more than it is, makes stall not just viable but very good. Not sure whether it's a or a+, but yeah it's definitely a or better. A- just doesn't reflect how good aroma is.

edit: adding on from what hnc said, sceptile is b+ at the maximum. It has major coverage issues with things like delphox / esca and just isn't strong enough to get through the special walls. It's also v frail, so can't be used as a check to stuff like clawitzer and rhyperior like virizion can. I haven't rlly seen much sceptile around, but it seems like virizion is often the better choice due to better bulk and fighting STAB.

edit2: ALSO exploud is an easy a-. Specs boomburst with webs is stupid powerful and stupid good. Exploud also has excellent coverage with surf for rhyp and fire blast for regi. It's arguably the scariest mon for stall to face, and when paired with dug it's almost unbeatable outside of cradily. Without webs I'd probably say it's somewhere in b because it's rlly slow and while it is quite bulky, it's nowhere near cress bulky but with webs you can outspeed hella things and just shit things up.

 

[Molk]

Also, just gonna post and say that i've updated the list once again. Once again if you strongly disagree with one of the chances its possible to get them reversed if you have good arguments as to why.

Anyways, here are the changes that i've made in this update, i hope this represents the meta a bit more accurately.

Changes

Shiftry up to B-
Xatu up to B-
Poliwrath down to C
Skuntank up to B-
Miltank up to B-
Fletchinder up to B-
Doublade up to A-
Escavalier down to A+
Hitmonlee up to S
Weezing up to B-
Shuckle up to A rank
Jolteon added to A- rank
Gourgeist-H down to C+
Jellicent down to C+
Avalugg down to D
Gogoat down to D
Regirock down to D
Exploud up to B+

C+ still seems a little big atm, and A- might end up inflated soon too, but this should be *ok* for now.

anyways, i'd like more discussion on Vivillon, Exploud (moved this up to B+ for now but the real proposal was A-), Cradily, and Aromatisse before i add them to the thread/change their rank.

I'd also like to see some more discussion on the Pokemon that hotncold mentioned in his post to move down (Sceptile, Heliolisk, Slurpuff iirc)

 

[col49]

ok, i guess i feel somewhat strongly about this, so i guess i'll defend zonger a little bit. while i can understand the perception that it does face significant competition for a team slot with registeel, i'd disagree with the notion that the latter eclipses the former in terms of usefulness. for reference, i'll be referencing zonger's use on stall builds, where i have most of my experience using the 'mon and feel it has the most solid niche, though input from others in regards to its use otherwise is cool.

no real arguments with a weakness to shadow ball being fairly lame (it really is at times), i dislike the point made that registeel can stomach knock off where zonger can't, because registeel is still very much hindered by the move in its own right, being highly reliant on the passive recovery it provides to sustain itself throughout a match, and most stall builds should be aware of this issue beforehand, running better switch-ins to knock off users as is. the point made about zonger exposing a weakness to yanmega for stall teams in contrast to registeel makes absolutely no sense to me (no offense meant ofc x_x), b/c tinted lens yanmega is the set that's actually threatening stall, and it's hitting both neutrally regardless, making it somewhat of a moot point. what i don't think gets quite enough acknowledgement are the boons of zonger's typing / ability for stall builds; such teams typically struggle to find a comfortable response to either m-aboma and / or sd virizion, and zonger makes a decent enough response to both, more-or-less hard walling the former and being capable of absorbing a +2 cc and koing w/gyro ball after a certain amount of prior damage. its fighting neutrality also makes it a much more comfortable response to cb braviary, which is a huge hassle to play around for stall considering the limited pool of consistent spinners almost mandates the use of gligar as a means of hazard removal. a spikes immunity also puts a lessened necessity on direct hazard removal for it to fulfill its defensive role in games, which can be particularly useful with froslass spikestack being a rather consistent element of our current meta.

but yeah, i'm p.much garbage at putting ranks or whatever on 'mons, but i'd rather have zonger either in the same rank or just one below registeel for reasons poorly expanded upon above, tho i could very well be missing something critical here, idk.

edit: dang, i hadn't posted here yet? i suck yo, real talk

 

[meloetta22]

I believe that Shuckle should be A+. Well, sort of at least. If it can't Toxic, it Infests. It also Sticky Webs, which ruins whole teams AND S-Rank Frosslass and Hitmonlee.

PS! Name:Sharko

 

[phantom]

Can we just put Shuckle in S-rank already, lol. Sticky Web Shuckle is ridiculously broken and provides team support capabilities that are on par with Froslass (just executed differently). Most people who've been laddering for suspect requirements can already see just how dominant and powerful Sticky Web is and just how well Shuckle can get them up on top of its ability to set up Stealth Rock, which makes team building for Shuckle offense more loosey-goosey if it otherwise lacked the move. I don't really see a reason why the face of one of, if not the most powerful playstyle in RU, shouldn't be in S as a result of its influence and sheer effectiveness. No other Sticky Web user can match Shuckle, and literally the only thing that stops Shuckle is Xatu or a banded Rhyperior that can get off more than three Rock Blasts, lol. This really speaks for itself.

 

[Kevun]

Vivillon - Yeah, this thing is definitely deserving of A- rank, if not higher (definitely higher imo). It's hard to get in with its extremely poor defenses, but if you bring it on pretty much anything slower, you're almost guaranteed to get off a Quiver Dance and sweep (aside from the 97.5% accuracy of Sleep Powder), especially seeing that the Grass-types immune to Sleep Powder are destroyed by Hurricane. At +1, this thing is near impossible to stop; its checks and counters can be counted with one hand, including the Rock- and Steel-types everyone brings up as stops to Vivillon. Non-specially defensive Rhyperior has a 98.8% chance to be 2HKO'ed with 1 layer of spikes, meaning it cannot switch into Vivillon safely. Escavalier is also 2HKO'ed by Hurricane, and Vivillon survives Escavalier's Iron Head 100% of the time as long as its in full health (which is actually most of the time). Doublade is also 2HKOed after 1 layer of spikes, while it cannot OHKO back unless it carries Gyro Ball (which is rather out of fashion). Furthermore, even priority moves have a hard time dealing with it. Vivillon quad resists Mach Punch, and survives nearly every single other priority move as long its in decent health, including Jolly Zoroark's Sucker Punch at full health. Finally, it outspeeds many common scarfers at +1, including Emboar and Braviary. (But sadly not Moltres). Sharpedo also needs to run a speed boosting nature to win, which is rare. Really, the only hard counters to Vivillon are Registeel and Bronzong, and any good team with Vivillon has ways to deal with them. Rhyperior makes a good check, and Escavalier only as long as Vivillon is weakened. Mega Banette is perhaps the only other check there is, taking it down with Destiny Bond. Oh yeah, if you actually let this thing get behind a substitute, then you're certainly screwed. Also, if you're opponent is stupid enough to not switch out after the initial Sleep Powder, or if he cures the sleep with a cleric, then you're almost certainly going to sweep. In all, this thing shreds both offensive and defensive teams, the former since Vivi OHKOs virtually every important offensive threat, at +1, and the latter because it can set up and substitute all day, while 2HKOing almost every wall not named Registeel or Bronzong. The 4x SR weakness is annoying, but its not really that hard to fit in a spinner. Yeah, definitely fits in the A ranks.

Oh yeah, it also single handedly destroys 99% of the extremely common sticky web teams.

 

[Ununhexium]

Yeah Vivillon ruins Sticky Web. I would recommend running Rhyperior just for this (and it makes a good end-game Sticky Web abuser)

 

[Peef Rimgar]

Why is mega Aboma still B+ on the list :/

Anyways, about vivillon, I believe it's as high as it should be atm. It requires quite a bit of support to be successful (Regi/Zong check and Spinner/defogger) but within that support it can be very effective. fine in B+ imo

 

[Jacks0n]

I really think shuckle should be A+, just provides so much support and sticky web teams are just borked and destroy so many teams. Move this thing up IMO.

 

[Meru]

Also let's be real Doublade might even have to be A

 

[Ununhexium]

Also let's be real Doublade might even have to be A

Seconded. Doublade is unbelievably good. The only real issues are its low speed (partially remedied by STAB shadow sneak), its low special defense, and a slight case of 4mss. meanwhile, it has a high attack, good defense, swords dance, can spinblock, and access to STAB priority

 

[mallpal]

Oh yeah, it also single handedly destroys 99% of the extremely common sticky web teams.

magneton 4x resists hurricane tho :/

 

[dingbat]

Sceptile's not really great at sweeping but rather revenge killing things w/out a scarf; leaf storm is a really nice nuking option especially if it has the overgrow boost going for it and it's got a base speed that's matched by so few 'mons in this tier. However comparing this with the a- ranks, I just don't see this thing being as effective as 'mons such as Doublade, Virizion, Gallade and such, but rather as effective as b+ 'mons such as magneton and mismagius.

 

[EonX]

Ok, time to cover about as much as I can. It's late, so don't get upset if I miss something or if my reasoning isn't up to snuff. On with the fun stuff:

Aromatisse: I feel I'm very qualified to talk about this one as I find it to be very useful on just about every team I have. Aromatisse is kind of like the Florges / Sylveon of RU, only with more balanced defenses and a better defensive ability than either one of them. Aromatisse is, bar none, the most reliable supporter in the tier. She has a fantastic defensive typing, good mixed defenses, a great support movepool, and her ability makes her completely immune to Taunt, a common downfall for many slow support Pokemon. She's arguably the queen of stall teams and she acts as a fantastic glue mon for offensive teams as her support allows sweepers to play much more recklessly than normal due to Wish and cleric support. Aromatisse can set TR, provide Wish and cleric support, and even have an outside shot of going on an end-game CM sweep if the opportunity presents itself. This isn't all. Due to her great defensive typing and solid mixed bulk, the user can EV Aromatisse in a few different ways; as a full-on special wall, a physically-based mixed wall, or a specially-based mixed wall, depending on what the team is in need of. This flexibility is incredibly hard to find on defensive Pokemon, but Aromatisse has this. Sure, she provides Escavalier and Delphox with easy entry to battle, but when you're working well with stuff like Moltres and Slowking, this isn't as big of a problem as you might originally think. Aromatisse is good enough for A+ imo due to her extreme defensive versatility on just about any type of team, bar Web Offense, but I guess I'd be ok with A.

Exploud: While I personally don't use it much, I can attest to the strain it can put on many teams due to its amazing coverage. This thing fucking survives Max SpA LO Modest Moltres's Hurricane before Rocks, just to give you an idea of its bulk (when invested of course) Boomburst is a stupid easy move to spam with the bulky Rocks and Steels not having reliable recovery as you can simply spam the move on each switch-in until that Rock or Steel is within 2HKO range. Exploud on Web Offense is stupid good, but it isn't exactly terrible without it. Definitely good enough for A- as any Web Offense team should consider Exploud for its primary abuser. And if isn't your primary abuser, it makes for a damn good secondary abuser.

Bronzong: While col49 maybe didn't do the best at explaining it, I understand where he's going with it as a Zong user myself. Most of my experience with Bronzong comes from using it on a balance team, and it is honestly quite reliable. Almost always get Rocks up, easy way to come in on Rhyeprior since Toxic easily wears it down. That Ground immunity is just so cool as that allows Zong to beat Rhyeprior most of the time, whereas Registeel simply can't. Zong can also set up Trick Room, but it does face a fair bit of competition from Aromatisse and Slowking as a dedicated TR setter. That said, my experience is solely with a SpDef set conssiting of Rocks/Toxic/EQ/Gyro and it works quite well with physically defensive Aromatisse. The two cover a lot more threats than you might think and Aromatisse is simply everything Zong could wish for in terms of defensive support. Although Registeel has much better defenses and lacks the nasty weaknesses to Ghost and Dark, Zong's Ground immunity, neutrality to Fighting, and ability to deal damage to naturally faster opponents through the use of Gyro Ball can make it more useful on some teams. As already pointed out by col, Zong is an easy switch-in to Mega Abomasnow and a more reliable switch-in to CB Braviary and SD Virizion, all of which can tear up a fair few stall teams that use Registeel as their primary special wall. It has to compete with Registeel, but there are enough strong points about Bronzong to warrant a spot in B/B+.

Shuckle: The poster child (or Pokemon) of Sticky Web. This thing can only do one job, but it defines the playstyle that is arguably the best in the tier right now. As a player who has rarely been able to run HO effectively in the past due to it conflicting with my natural playstyle, I can attest to how effective Web Offense is. Shuckle makes it all possible and it even comes with Rocks too! Mental Herb ensures it will get off Sticky Web and next to nothing is KOing it beforehand. Encore keeps it from being setup bait and Toxic / Infestation can provides some very nice chip damage. It makes shit like CB Braviary, Exploud, Hitmonlee, Emboar, and Yanmega even more dangerous than they already are and just p. much auto-wins offensive teams. It has an incredible influence on the current metagame and makes an entire playstyle possible, so Shuckle is good for S rank imo. Your only two shots at stopping Shuckle from doing its job are Xatu and CB Rhyperior with 3+ Rock Blast hits.

 

[mallpal]

paging Molk, or anyone else who edits the OP. i'd like to draw attention to a post i made a few weeks back which got a few likes, but the mon concerned wasn't added to the rankings. i now have definitive proof that wynaut is banworthy pretty good in the form of a replay of it winning me a game on the ladder vs new bread.

thanks for reading, please consider what i've suggested :')

 

[meloetta22]

Can we just put Shuckle in S-rank already, lol. Sticky Web Shuckle is ridiculously broken and provides team support capabilities that are on par with Froslass (just executed differently). Most people who've been laddering for suspect requirements can already see just how dominant and powerful Sticky Web is and just how well Shuckle can get them up on top of its ability to set up Stealth Rock, which makes team building for Shuckle offense more loosey-goosey if it otherwise lacked the move. I don't really see a reason why the face of one of, if not the most powerful playstyle in RU, shouldn't be in S as a result of its influence and sheer effectiveness. No other Sticky Web user can match Shuckle, and literally the only thing that stops Shuckle is Xatu or a banded Rhyperior that can get off more than three Rock Blasts, lol. This really speaks for itself.

Yay! Someone finally agrees!

 

[atomicllamas]

Hi, posting because Jolteon and Heliolisk being in the same rank is really dumb. Jolteon is undoubtedly the superior mon in this meta, as the extra coverage moves that Heliolisk has, aren't enough to make up for the difference in stats. Heliolisk should definitely be running Grass Knot, as that allows it to actually beat things that Jolteon struggles with like Rhyperior and Gastrodon, and it needs HP Ice to deal any damage on Grass-types (and Gligar). However, Jolteon has Signal Beam which allows it to deal with Tangrowth, one of the pokemon that most comfortably takes a Volt Switch thanks to Regenerator (and lets face it neither is making any headway against Amoonguss regardless), and both Rhyp and Gligar are 2hkoed by LO HP Water, which means that they aren't necessarily good switch ins to Jolteon. Jolteon also has the benefit of being way better against web, thanks to its greater speed, as it is able to outspeed neutral base 80s such as CB Braviary, Gallade, and Kabutops at -1 speed. Outside of webs (or in webs v webs) Jolteon also has the advantage of getting the jump on offensive staples like Choice Scarf Emboar, Durant, Froslass, Sceptile, and Cinccino that are extremely useful to outspeed with a non-choiced mon.

With this highly webs based meta, I think that Magneton is actually better than Heliolisk as well, so I am going to propose Heliolisk move down to at least B+ (if not B), and maybe I'm exaggerating how annoyingly good Choice Specs Magneton is in webs, but I would also like to propose Magneton to A-, and maybe Jolteon to A :3?

OH AND JOLTEON HAS BP AND IS FASTER THAN DUGTRIO FOR NOT BEING TRAPPED IF YOU NEED THAT. B)

 

[colourcodedchaos]

I'd like to submit something for y'all to discuss. Hopefully this can spark the return of a long-lost Grass-type cutemon to its home tier. =]

Leafeon GO!
More specifically, go from Unranked to C/C+

Now, I like to try and win with mons that aren't top of the heap when it comes to RU, and I also like to play around with stuff that doesn't always get a look-in. This probably explains why I don't win much. But this li'l cutie has been giving me more success than she probably has a right to, so I thought I'd share my set and talk about why she deserves a C or C+ ranking, depending on what language you want to code her in. Badumtish.

Waitin' On A Sunny Day
(link here for those who don't get the joke)
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 Spe
Ability: Chlorophyll
Nature: Adamant
Item: Life Orb
--> Swords Dance
--> Leaf Blade
--> Knock Off
--> Synthesis

Gen VI has been kind to bulky offensive mons, to the point where I've tried the old girl with an Assault Vest a couple of times. Yes, I know, AssVest is ass and only belongs on very specific mons, it was an experiment and I didn't like the results. However, this is a more offensively oriented set, centred around the fact that Leafeon actually has better physical stats than our old friend Tangrowth. However, Tangrowth's still probably a better tank because of its access to Regenerator (insert Doctor Who joke here). However, sun support's been badly nerfed, which is part of why I'm not arguing in favour of a higher rank. The other is its pathetic special bulk, which somehow contrives to still be higher than the Rasta Hedge's. This is something of an issue in a tier containing Delphox and similar.

But.

Grass is still a halfway decent defensive type, despite Mega Abomasnow's unfortunate tendency to murder everything ever with 100% accurate Blizzards oh sweet Arceus it's like being violently buggered by the personification of winter. In sunlight, with based Chlorophyll, Leafeon outspeeds and OHKOs max-Speed Delphox with Knock Off. Knock Off is, in fact, a pretty good reason to use Leafeon in the first place. It's much faster than Tangrowth, whether in sunlight or not, and that means it can remove vital items and squish threats like Sharpedo with Leaf Blade. Swords Dance is there to make it hit even harder, allowing it to OHKO physdef Reuniclus after a boost and do pretty hefty damage to a similarly-specced Cresselia. Lastly, Synthesis is there for recovery purposes; I tried both Double-Edge and X-Scissor as coverage options, but they were both kinda redundant, except in the latter case where it does more damage than anything else to Tangrowth, which is funny considering how much I've insulted the poor chap over the course of this writeup. It works really well with sunlight, keeping her going long after she should've been revenge-killed.

It's all this put together that makes me request a C/C+ ranking for Leafeon. She's got good base stats, Special Defence notwithstanding, and access to some nice abilities and the much-coveted Knock Off. However, between mons like Moltres and Megabomba chewing her up like a granola bar, competitors in the tier doing better jobs, and an over-reliance on the kind of weather setup than Gen VI seemed designed to nerf straight to hell, she can't do nearly as much as I'd like her to.

If all else fails, she makes a damned fine salad.

 

[GlassGlaceon]

I'd like to submit something for y'all to discuss. Hopefully this can spark the return of a long-lost Grass-type cutemon to its home tier. =]

Leafeon GO!
More specifically, go from Unranked to C/C+

Now, I like to try and win with mons that aren't top of the heap when it comes to RU, and I also like to play around with stuff that doesn't always get a look-in. This probably explains why I don't win much. But this li'l cutie has been giving me more success than she probably has a right to, so I thought I'd share my set and talk about why she deserves a C or C+ ranking, depending on what language you want to code her in. Badumtish.

Waitin' On A Sunny Day
(link here for those who don't get the joke)
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 Spe
Ability: Chlorophyll
Nature: Adamant
Item: Life Orb
--> Swords Dance
--> Leaf Blade
--> Knock Off
--> Synthesis

Gen VI has been kind to bulky offensive mons, to the point where I've tried the old girl with an Assault Vest a couple of times. Yes, I know, AssVest is ass and only belongs on very specific mons, it was an experiment and I didn't like the results. However, this is a more offensively oriented set, centred around the fact that Leafeon actually has better physical stats than our old friend Tangrowth. However, Tangrowth's still probably a better tank because of its access to Regenerator (insert Doctor Who joke here). However, sun support's been badly nerfed, which is part of why I'm not arguing in favour of a higher rank. The other is its pathetic special bulk, which somehow contrives to still be higher than the Rasta Hedge's. This is something of an issue in a tier containing Delphox and similar.

But.

Grass is still a halfway decent defensive type, despite Mega Abomasnow's unfortunate tendency to murder everything ever with 100% accurate Blizzards oh sweet Arceus it's like being violently buggered by the personification of winter. In sunlight, with based Chlorophyll, Leafeon outspeeds and OHKOs max-Speed Delphox with Knock Off. Knock Off is, in fact, a pretty good reason to use Leafeon in the first place. It's much faster than Tangrowth, whether in sunlight or not, and that means it can remove vital items and squish threats like Sharpedo with Leaf Blade. Swords Dance is there to make it hit even harder, allowing it to OHKO physdef Reuniclus after a boost and do pretty hefty damage to a similarly-specced Cresselia. Lastly, Synthesis is there for recovery purposes; I tried both Double-Edge and X-Scissor as coverage options, but they were both kinda redundant, except in the latter case where it does more damage than anything else to Tangrowth, which is funny considering how much I've insulted the poor chap over the course of this writeup. It works really well with sunlight, keeping her going long after she should've been revenge-killed.

It's all this put together that makes me request a C/C+ ranking for Leafeon. She's got good base stats, Special Defence notwithstanding, and access to some nice abilities and the much-coveted Knock Off. However, between mons like Moltres and Megabomba chewing her up like a granola bar, competitors in the tier doing better jobs, and an over-reliance on the kind of weather setup than Gen VI seemed designed to nerf straight to hell, she can't do nearly as much as I'd like her to.

If all else fails, she makes a damned fine salad.

tbh this post looks convicing but I'd rather use tangrowth, a mon who could go either phys, special or mixed, or victreebel, who goes mixed or physical as well, has more resistances, and has a LOT better coverage than leafey over here, i'd say D at most :@

 

[dingbat]

tbh this post looks convicing but I'd rather use tangrowth, a mon who could go either phys, special or mixed, or victreebel, who goes mixed or physical as well, has more resistances, and has a LOT better coverage than leafey over here, i'd say D at most :@

D rank sounds appropriate for Leafeon. For once Leafeon has found a way to actually do some sort of damage against the steels that resist the rest of its shitty physical move set. However I feel that it is outshined by the likes of Virizion and even Sceptile as a swords dancer not because they outclass Leafeon but rather because they have certain advantages such as speed that really warrant their use over Leafeon.

Moving on, I'd like to nominate archeops for C+/B- rank. This thing can be such a bitch to face due to its combination of sheer power and fantastic coverage moves (sux to not have flying gem) rivaled by very few things. However, its shitty ability (p. much second worse to truant) combined with its glass defenses (and ofc its weakness to rocks) makes it really easy to take advantage of. But keep this monster in healthy condition though and this thing will actually wreak havoc on the opposing side.

 

[Don Honchkrorleone]

I'd like to submit something for y'all to discuss. Hopefully this can spark the return of a long-lost Grass-type cutemon to its home tier. =]

Leafeon GO!
More specifically, go from Unranked to C/C+

Now, I like to try and win with mons that aren't top of the heap when it comes to RU, and I also like to play around with stuff that doesn't always get a look-in. This probably explains why I don't win much. But this li'l cutie has been giving me more success than she probably has a right to, so I thought I'd share my set and talk about why she deserves a C or C+ ranking, depending on what language you want to code her in. Badumtish.

Waitin' On A Sunny Day
(link here for those who don't get the joke)
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 Spe
Ability: Chlorophyll
Nature: Adamant
Item: Life Orb
--> Swords Dance
--> Leaf Blade
--> Knock Off
--> Synthesis

Gen VI has been kind to bulky offensive mons, to the point where I've tried the old girl with an Assault Vest a couple of times. Yes, I know, AssVest is ass and only belongs on very specific mons, it was an experiment and I didn't like the results. However, this is a more offensively oriented set, centred around the fact that Leafeon actually has better physical stats than our old friend Tangrowth. However, Tangrowth's still probably a better tank because of its access to Regenerator (insert Doctor Who joke here). However, sun support's been badly nerfed, which is part of why I'm not arguing in favour of a higher rank. The other is its pathetic special bulk, which somehow contrives to still be higher than the Rasta Hedge's. This is something of an issue in a tier containing Delphox and similar.

But.

Grass is still a halfway decent defensive type, despite Mega Abomasnow's unfortunate tendency to murder everything ever with 100% accurate Blizzards oh sweet Arceus it's like being violently buggered by the personification of winter. In sunlight, with based Chlorophyll, Leafeon outspeeds and OHKOs max-Speed Delphox with Knock Off. Knock Off is, in fact, a pretty good reason to use Leafeon in the first place. It's much faster than Tangrowth, whether in sunlight or not, and that means it can remove vital items and squish threats like Sharpedo with Leaf Blade. Swords Dance is there to make it hit even harder, allowing it to OHKO physdef Reuniclus after a boost and do pretty hefty damage to a similarly-specced Cresselia. Lastly, Synthesis is there for recovery purposes; I tried both Double-Edge and X-Scissor as coverage options, but they were both kinda redundant, except in the latter case where it does more damage than anything else to Tangrowth, which is funny considering how much I've insulted the poor chap over the course of this writeup. It works really well with sunlight, keeping her going long after she should've been revenge-killed.

It's all this put together that makes me request a C/C+ ranking for Leafeon. She's got good base stats, Special Defence notwithstanding, and access to some nice abilities and the much-coveted Knock Off. However, between mons like Moltres and Megabomba chewing her up like a granola bar, competitors in the tier doing better jobs, and an over-reliance on the kind of weather setup than Gen VI seemed designed to nerf straight to hell, she can't do nearly as much as I'd like her to.

If all else fails, she makes a damned fine salad.

I like the way you sell your fish but why not use Shiftry instead of Leafeon if you want a Physical Sun Grass-type Sweeper with Knock Off? While Leafeon has higher Attack, Defense and Speed, Shiftry's Knock Off is better because of STAB. For example, Leafeon can't OHKO 252 HP Doublade with a +2 Knock Off (+2 252+ Atk Leafeon Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 194-230 (60.2 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) nor 2HKO 252 HP Registeel (+2 252+ Atk Leafeon Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Registeel: 145-171 (39.8 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO), while Shiftry can. Not only, but Shiftry also has Sucker Punch to pick up priority users that would otherwise kill it (a +2 Sucker Punch can OHKO Hitmonlee) . The tengu can also run mixed, Explosion and even Defog to help support Sun teams while Leafeon has Heal Bell I guess and Baton Pass seems cool for something like Emboar to destroy shit under Sun but idk. I wouldn't rank it for that set only, maybe if it has another niche in RU, which atm I can't think of any.

 

[EonX]

Leafeon: The problem for Leafeon is that it's really outclassed at just about everything it tries to do. As a physical sweeper, Leafeon has to contend with Shifrtry and Virizion (Shiftry moreso since you should be using Leafeon with Sun support if you use it at all) while a defensive set has to deal with Tangrowth, and even Amoonguss to a lesser extent. A defensive set has next to no use with Aromatisse, Alomomola, and Tangrowth around, so the only set I see even coming close to being halfway decent on Leafeon is a SD+BP set. Something like SD/BP/Leaf Blade/Synthesis(Knock Off) so it can maybe sweep if Grass resists are gone (good luck) or simply pass off the SD boost to a teammate who can sweep with it. Problem is a lot of dangerous shit outspeeds Leafeon (Delphox, Zoroark, Durant, etc.) that may switch in as you boost up, denying you the BP. It may deserve D, but I even think that is pushing it. Sorry Leafeon. I love ya, but there's just too much competition :(

Heliolisk: I'm really torn on this one. I love Heliolisk a lot; it's always come through for me whenever I really need it. However, Speed is king right now, and Jolteon's ability to outspeed Adamant CB Braviary even after Webs is super cool. The big reason to use Heliolisk right now is if your team is weak to random crap like Gastrodon or Seismitoad, or just needs the quick OHKO on Rhyeperior, things Jolteon can't do. However, with HP Water, Jolteon is still 2HKOing Rhyperior handily, so an early-game prediction can easily set this up later. Heliolisk is good, but until Webs gets nerfed in some way, it's held back a bit. B+ seems like a good fit for the time being, at least until Sticky Web is nerfed in some way.

 

[s_aman]

Supporting Shuckle for S-rank. It is a lot like Deoxys-D in OU and our own Froslass. It provides immense support to nukes like Exploud and Zangoose. Spinning is difficult these days due to the prevalence of baby-Crumbler (love it), Mega Bannette and other ghosts. LO Braviary is a pretty good Defog deterrent. However, the most frightening thing about these teams is the immense offensive pressure they put on the opposing teams HO, stall and balance alike. HO hates speed decrease and priority from the likes of zangoose, lee and doublade. Stall is taken care of by Zangoose, Specs Exploud and reckless hi jump kicks. And... I don't know what is balance, so, someone else explain that to me please.

 

[colourcodedchaos]

You all make excellent points, particularly in regard to Shiftry as a Knock-Off user, who I'd somehow managed to completely forget. In my defence, it was two in the morning when I made that post. =]

Quick question, though: given that it gets quite a nice support movepool, including Wish and Heal Bell, would a 252/252+ physdef cleric Leafeon be viable? I haven't done any testing with this variant, but it might be interesting to check out.