Well, it seems I did forget a bunch of evs...My bad? In anycase it reminds me that I'm pretty sure that you need a whole lot of attack evs to 2hko making the set pretty dumb. Ignore it I guess.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Pokémon Latios
- Thread starter Vert
- Start date
- Status
The problem with reflect type this gen is that the most common steel type that will switch into latias is aegislash, and reflect type is awful against him. Also, there is now an entirely new type made specifically to counter dragons, and reflect type wouldn't be very effective against them either. If you want to get by some steels, use hp fire or even earthquake.
Last edited:
Lol reflect type can make it up the ladder but im in no way saying this is the best set. but plenty of common counters to it are no longer counters other than dragons and ghost but poke like ferrothorn planning to set up, or greninja planing to 2hit ko are in for a surprise. its the best going into heat ran and reflect typing and getting its type with no major weakness other than water cuz you still have levitate. But yeah chances to use it effectively happen more times than not but I don't know if it could make it the peak of competitiveness i just thought it would be cool.
babaGAReeb
Banned deucer.
can anyone tell me the differences betweeen mega latios and soul dew latios? it looks like mega latios got more def and soul dew latios more off
Soul Dew Latios is better, and that's it.
But seriously, I think the only thing that really stands out is MLatios' bigger attack stat, but how useful that would actually be it's for another discussion I guess.
Soul Dew is unreleased, and probably will always be. Mega Latios has more physical bulk and attack, but lower special attack and special bulk. Probably think of Latiosite as a replacement for soul dew.
What about mixed M-Latios? And maybe some set that uses Draco Meteor and THEN mega evolves to catch the opponent off guard?
Idk, I guess it could work. He is the fastest Dragon Dancer. Dragon Claw/Earthquake/DD/-insert coverage move- ?
Hey guys, I've been testing Mega Latias against a friend and this is what has worked out for me so far and I would like your guy's opinion on it
Latias @ Latiasite
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature
IVs: 30 SAtk / 30 SDef / 30 Spd / 30 HP / 6 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Psyshock
- Roost
Also has anyone found any good pokemon that goes along with Mega Latias?
Latias @ Latiasite
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature
IVs: 30 SAtk / 30 SDef / 30 Spd / 30 HP / 6 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Psyshock
- Roost
Also has anyone found any good pokemon that goes along with Mega Latias?
CM / Reflect or Substitute / Recover / Dragon Pulse Latias seems like it could be fun. Unlike standard Latias it is immune to Trick and takes at worst 65 BP from Knock Off. Maybe a Bold set would be good, idk, but even Timid max HP / speed has promising defensive calculations.
4 Atk Assault Vest Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Latias through Reflect: 96-114 (26.3 - 31.3%)
252+ Atk Mega Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Latias through Reflect: 147-174 (40.3 - 47.8%)
252+ Atk Mega Scizor U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Latias through Reflect: 120-142 (32.9 - 39%)
252+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-B Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Latias through Reflect: 226-267 (62 - 73.3%)
252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Latias through Reflect: 169-199 (46.4 - 54.6%)
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latias: 300-354 (82.4 - 97.2%)
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latias: 152-180 (41.7 - 49.4%)
4 SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latias: 132-156 (36.2 - 42.8%)
Okay yeah all of those things still beat Mega Latias one on one (except Garchomp and Kyurem B, unless Scarfed) but those damage calculations are pretty much worse case scenario calculations. Against some slightly less capable opponents...
252 Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Latias through Reflect: 91-108 (25 - 29.6%)
252 Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Latias through Reflect: 69-82 (18.9 - 22.5%)
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Latias through Reflect: 81-96 (22.2 - 26.3%)
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Latias through Reflect: 105-125 (28.8 - 34.3%)
252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latias: 73-87 (20 - 23.9%)
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latias: 151-182 (41.4 - 50%)
252+ SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latias: 156-186 (42.8 - 51%)
Basically Latias just doesn't give a shit against all but the strongest STAB super effective attacks. It's easy to forget how strong 140 base SA is as well. Mega Latias isn't a slouch offensively. After a Calm Mind it has around as much Special Attack as Life Orb Keldeo so it can really cut into all but the strongest of special walls.
+1 0 SpA Mega Latias Dragon Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 201-237 (73.8 - 87.1%)
+1 0 SpA Mega Latias Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4+ SpD Rotom-W: 157-186 (51.6 - 61.1%)
+1 0 SpA Mega Latias Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Landorus-T: 220-259 (57.5 - 67.8%)
+1 0 SpA Mega Latias Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr: 174-205 (42 - 49.5%)
+1 0 SpA Mega Latias Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 163-193 (54.8 - 64.9%)
+1 0 SpA Mega Latias Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Venusaur: 157-186 (43.1 - 51%)
It isn't perfect. With Dragon as the mono attack type Fairies totally shit all over this. Common Pokemon like Tyranitar, Aegislash, Scizor, and Bisharp completely destroy Latias. Status moves also cripple M Latias, especially Toxic.
That said Fairies can be killed and Latias's non-Fairy counters can just be worn down until they're in KO range (or just set up on... they "probably" won't get a critical hit!... right?). Running Substitute > Reflect can help with status but means more random things can fuck you like Conkledurr or Talonflame. A Physically Defensive spread is also possible I guess but outrunning Terrakion and Talonflame before it U-turns or w/e is pretty important.
The fun here seems to be that Latias can run many different sets which I haven't even begun to talk about and when you face one you won't know what to expect. Try to send in Chansey / Blissey to Toxic it and you may have to face a Refresh set. Going to kill it with Scarfchomp? No, it used Reflect. Think your Mega Scizor can Swords Dance in its face? Turns out it's offensive with HP Fire. Trying to kill it with Mega Tyranitar?... Well that works.
Fuck Tyranitar.
4 Atk Assault Vest Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Latias through Reflect: 96-114 (26.3 - 31.3%)
252+ Atk Mega Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Latias through Reflect: 147-174 (40.3 - 47.8%)
252+ Atk Mega Scizor U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Latias through Reflect: 120-142 (32.9 - 39%)
252+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-B Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Latias through Reflect: 226-267 (62 - 73.3%)
252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Latias through Reflect: 169-199 (46.4 - 54.6%)
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latias: 300-354 (82.4 - 97.2%)
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latias: 152-180 (41.7 - 49.4%)
4 SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latias: 132-156 (36.2 - 42.8%)
Okay yeah all of those things still beat Mega Latias one on one (except Garchomp and Kyurem B, unless Scarfed) but those damage calculations are pretty much worse case scenario calculations. Against some slightly less capable opponents...
252 Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Latias through Reflect: 91-108 (25 - 29.6%)
252 Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Latias through Reflect: 69-82 (18.9 - 22.5%)
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Latias through Reflect: 81-96 (22.2 - 26.3%)
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Latias through Reflect: 105-125 (28.8 - 34.3%)
252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latias: 73-87 (20 - 23.9%)
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latias: 151-182 (41.4 - 50%)
252+ SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latias: 156-186 (42.8 - 51%)
Basically Latias just doesn't give a shit against all but the strongest STAB super effective attacks. It's easy to forget how strong 140 base SA is as well. Mega Latias isn't a slouch offensively. After a Calm Mind it has around as much Special Attack as Life Orb Keldeo so it can really cut into all but the strongest of special walls.
+1 0 SpA Mega Latias Dragon Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 201-237 (73.8 - 87.1%)
+1 0 SpA Mega Latias Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4+ SpD Rotom-W: 157-186 (51.6 - 61.1%)
+1 0 SpA Mega Latias Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Landorus-T: 220-259 (57.5 - 67.8%)
+1 0 SpA Mega Latias Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr: 174-205 (42 - 49.5%)
+1 0 SpA Mega Latias Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 163-193 (54.8 - 64.9%)
+1 0 SpA Mega Latias Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Venusaur: 157-186 (43.1 - 51%)
It isn't perfect. With Dragon as the mono attack type Fairies totally shit all over this. Common Pokemon like Tyranitar, Aegislash, Scizor, and Bisharp completely destroy Latias. Status moves also cripple M Latias, especially Toxic.
That said Fairies can be killed and Latias's non-Fairy counters can just be worn down until they're in KO range (or just set up on... they "probably" won't get a critical hit!... right?). Running Substitute > Reflect can help with status but means more random things can fuck you like Conkledurr or Talonflame. A Physically Defensive spread is also possible I guess but outrunning Terrakion and Talonflame before it U-turns or w/e is pretty important.
The fun here seems to be that Latias can run many different sets which I haven't even begun to talk about and when you face one you won't know what to expect. Try to send in Chansey / Blissey to Toxic it and you may have to face a Refresh set. Going to kill it with Scarfchomp? No, it used Reflect. Think your Mega Scizor can Swords Dance in its face? Turns out it's offensive with HP Fire. Trying to kill it with Mega Tyranitar?... Well that works.
Fuck Tyranitar.
Really? People are saying these are going to be underwhelming? Are you kidding me? They're not going to be underwhelming, they're going to be banned.
Latias has 80/120/150 bulk with immunities or resistances to Groud, Fighting, Water and Fire. Oh, and it has 110 speed and 140 spatk. And reliable recovery.
Here's the set I'm thinking
Latias-Mega (F) @ Latiasite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Def / 248 HP / 8 SAtk
Bold Nature
- Substitute
- Roost
- Calm Mind
- Dragon Pulse / Psyshock
Everyone is talking about this thing running two attacks, but that would be wasting how absolutely amazing this thing can be under a sub. Set up a sub on a wall, get 1 cm up, and sweep. Wanna know just how unbreakable this things sub is? Take a look at this
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Flash Cannon vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latias: 76-90 (20.8 - 24.7%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
A 120 POWER NEUTRALLY EFFECTIVE MOVE COMING OFF 438 SPECIAL ATTACK DOES.NOT.BREAK.THE.SUB. Oh, and for comparison
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 123-145 (17.2 - 20.3%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
Yeah, Blissey takes 3% less damage. Fucking Blissey.
Now I realize that Aegi would normally use Shadow Ball in this instance (which still doesn't even do half), but I just wanted to showcase the immense bulk that is Mega-Latias. Now the problem with this set is that you're going to be completely walled by either Fairies or Darks. Well, you have 5 other teammates for that. The win condition for Latias is literally "Get rid of Dark types/Fairy types and win". Now you can also run both attacks with no sub, that's perfectly fine, but I think that super bulky sub is just too good to pass up.
Latios is even more broken because it has the Charizard factor where it can run two completely different sets with two completely different counters, and you won't know which one it is until it's too late.
Latios-Mega (M) @ Latiosite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Psyshock
Personally, I find this set pretty underwhelming in power and not worth using, but I thought I would mention the wallbreaker set just because it's there. Now the two REALLY dangerous sets are
Latios-Mega (M) @ Latiosite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Roost
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Psyshock
offensive Calm Mind I see as really threatening. Because you won't know whether it's Calm Mind or Dragon Dance, it'll be pretty easy to set up a Calm Mind when someone switches to what they think is a counter to the DD set, and that could cost them the game. Sure you're walled by Sableye and Spiritomb, but lol Sableye and Spiritomb. And then Dragon Dance
Latios-Mega (M) @ Latiosite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Roost
The fastest Dragon Dancer in the game. And with 80/100/120 bulk too. And reliable recovery. What more could be better? Only walled by Togekiss, but lol Togekiss.
So yeah, these things are going to be banned. Prepare your anuses when they come out.
Latias has 80/120/150 bulk with immunities or resistances to Groud, Fighting, Water and Fire. Oh, and it has 110 speed and 140 spatk. And reliable recovery.
Here's the set I'm thinking
Latias-Mega (F) @ Latiasite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Def / 248 HP / 8 SAtk
Bold Nature
- Substitute
- Roost
- Calm Mind
- Dragon Pulse / Psyshock
Everyone is talking about this thing running two attacks, but that would be wasting how absolutely amazing this thing can be under a sub. Set up a sub on a wall, get 1 cm up, and sweep. Wanna know just how unbreakable this things sub is? Take a look at this
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Flash Cannon vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latias: 76-90 (20.8 - 24.7%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
A 120 POWER NEUTRALLY EFFECTIVE MOVE COMING OFF 438 SPECIAL ATTACK DOES.NOT.BREAK.THE.SUB. Oh, and for comparison
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 123-145 (17.2 - 20.3%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
Yeah, Blissey takes 3% less damage. Fucking Blissey.
Now I realize that Aegi would normally use Shadow Ball in this instance (which still doesn't even do half), but I just wanted to showcase the immense bulk that is Mega-Latias. Now the problem with this set is that you're going to be completely walled by either Fairies or Darks. Well, you have 5 other teammates for that. The win condition for Latias is literally "Get rid of Dark types/Fairy types and win". Now you can also run both attacks with no sub, that's perfectly fine, but I think that super bulky sub is just too good to pass up.
Latios is even more broken because it has the Charizard factor where it can run two completely different sets with two completely different counters, and you won't know which one it is until it's too late.
Latios-Mega (M) @ Latiosite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Psyshock
Personally, I find this set pretty underwhelming in power and not worth using, but I thought I would mention the wallbreaker set just because it's there. Now the two REALLY dangerous sets are
Latios-Mega (M) @ Latiosite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Roost
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Psyshock
offensive Calm Mind I see as really threatening. Because you won't know whether it's Calm Mind or Dragon Dance, it'll be pretty easy to set up a Calm Mind when someone switches to what they think is a counter to the DD set, and that could cost them the game. Sure you're walled by Sableye and Spiritomb, but lol Sableye and Spiritomb. And then Dragon Dance
Latios-Mega (M) @ Latiosite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Roost
The fastest Dragon Dancer in the game. And with 80/100/120 bulk too. And reliable recovery. What more could be better? Only walled by Togekiss, but lol Togekiss.
So yeah, these things are going to be banned. Prepare your anuses when they come out.
Latias' bulk is pretty similar to that of another Mega, Mega Venusaur, which also has an arguably better defensive typing(Grass-Poison with Thick Fat>>Dragon-Psychic with Levitate). Scizor also has only a little less bulk, a better typing as well and can perform bulky setup sets as well as bringing utility to the team with Defog. Other Megas also have comparable or even higher bulk, such as Tyranitar and Gyarados, but they lack a recovery move so they are not really comparable.
None of them is arguably uber level.
130/160/110 mixed offensive stats might appear threatening at first, until you realize that you have neither an item nor a damage boosting ability, so you aren't going to do more damage than regular Latios from either side of the spectrum. On Dragon Dance sets, you are forced to use Adamant Outrage, or you are going to do too little damage, making easy to take advantage of your Latios. so yeah, neither of them is uber worthy, they are hardly better than their regular forms.
Mega Venusaur can't boost it's offenses outside of growth, which also doesn't boost it's defenses, beyond the fact that M-latias has more overall bulk than M-Venusaur, AS WELL as better offenses.
Mega Scizor would be Uber if Steel/Bug weren't such awful offensive typings and it had a way to boost it's defenses (it still doesn't have better bulk than M-latias, or the speed). The M-latis can also bring utility as well with Defog, screens, and the such, I just didn't list them because I was more focused on the offensive sets. Mega Tyranitar or M-gyra don't have reliable recovery or a way to boost their defenses as mentioned, so like you said, you can't compare them.
As to Dragon Dance, because of it's bulk it can tank multiple hits and get off multiple Dragon Dances. Not only that, it doesn't need to OHKO everything because it can Roost off the damage it's taken. You also can't underestimate it's speed, which is going to make it very hard to revenge kill.
People ALWAYS underestimate the new threats that come it. Trust me, these'll be banned if not S rank when the dust settles.
I really doubt that either of them will be good enough to get banned but there's no doubt in my mind that Mega Latias will be a good defensive mega. Maybe not on the same level as Mega Venusaur since it has more weaknesses to deal with but still worth using over regular Latias at the least. With just max HP and a neutral nature it can't be 2HKO'd by some of the best wallbreakers in OU, as well as some other top threats.
Keldeo
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latias: 126-150 (34.6 - 41.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hidden Power Ghost vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latias: 138-164 (37.9 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Landorus
0 Atk Life Orb Landorus Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Latias: 127-151 (34.8 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Life Orb Landorus U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Latias: 135-161 (37 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Charizard-Y
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latias in Sun: 110-130 (30.2 - 35.7%) -- 37.7% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latias: 152-180 (41.7 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
-Still a 83.6% chance to 2HKO after SR, to be fair. Roost variants are flat out walled though.
Deoxys-S
0 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-S Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Latias: 101-120 (27.7 - 32.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-S Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latias: 146-174 (40.1 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (51.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock)
Thundurus
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latias: 117-140 (32.1 - 38.4%) -- 97.7% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Thundurus Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Latias: 146-174 (40.1 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (51.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock)
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Thundurus Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Latias: 291-343 (79.9 - 94.2%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
-I'm including this one because any variant of normal Latias (even 252/252+) would get #rekt by this attack while a M-Latias with just HP investment has a decent chance to survive even after SR.
That's three of the biggest wallbreakers in OU plus Deo-S and Thundurus all using their best super effective coverage moves on this thing. And keep in mind that this is all just with HP investment and a neutral nature. With some more points in SpD or after a Calm Mind, Charizard-Y and Deo-S are complete non-factors. With 252 HP/252 Def+, +2 Thundy's Knock Off is doing a more manageable 59.3 - 70% instead of 79.9 - 94.2%. It also does some other cool stuff like not taking any shit from Landorus-T, LO-less Excadrill, and Mega Gyarados with no DDs up as well not getting 2HKO'd by Brave Bird/Return/Stone Edge from CB Talonflame/Mega Pinsir/CB Terrakion as long as rocks aren't up.
I think where Mega Latias will fall short is the fact that the same things that gave it trouble as normal Latias are still a problem. Sucker Punch/Crunch/Pursuit/Shadow Ball from Bisharp, Tyranitar, Aegislash, and Mega Mawile may not outright OHKO it depending on its spread but they are still massive pains in the ass and it still doesn't have anything besides shitty Hidden Powers to hit them with. Outrage and Draco Meteor are also big problems especially if you're not running speed and pretty much necessitate a Dragon/Fairy/Steel core to deal with them.
Keldeo
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latias: 126-150 (34.6 - 41.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hidden Power Ghost vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latias: 138-164 (37.9 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Landorus
0 Atk Life Orb Landorus Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Latias: 127-151 (34.8 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Life Orb Landorus U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Latias: 135-161 (37 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Charizard-Y
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latias in Sun: 110-130 (30.2 - 35.7%) -- 37.7% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latias: 152-180 (41.7 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
-Still a 83.6% chance to 2HKO after SR, to be fair. Roost variants are flat out walled though.
Deoxys-S
0 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-S Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Latias: 101-120 (27.7 - 32.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-S Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latias: 146-174 (40.1 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (51.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock)
Thundurus
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latias: 117-140 (32.1 - 38.4%) -- 97.7% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Thundurus Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Latias: 146-174 (40.1 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (51.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock)
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Thundurus Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Latias: 291-343 (79.9 - 94.2%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
-I'm including this one because any variant of normal Latias (even 252/252+) would get #rekt by this attack while a M-Latias with just HP investment has a decent chance to survive even after SR.
That's three of the biggest wallbreakers in OU plus Deo-S and Thundurus all using their best super effective coverage moves on this thing. And keep in mind that this is all just with HP investment and a neutral nature. With some more points in SpD or after a Calm Mind, Charizard-Y and Deo-S are complete non-factors. With 252 HP/252 Def+, +2 Thundy's Knock Off is doing a more manageable 59.3 - 70% instead of 79.9 - 94.2%. It also does some other cool stuff like not taking any shit from Landorus-T, LO-less Excadrill, and Mega Gyarados with no DDs up as well not getting 2HKO'd by Brave Bird/Return/Stone Edge from CB Talonflame/Mega Pinsir/CB Terrakion as long as rocks aren't up.
I think where Mega Latias will fall short is the fact that the same things that gave it trouble as normal Latias are still a problem. Sucker Punch/Crunch/Pursuit/Shadow Ball from Bisharp, Tyranitar, Aegislash, and Mega Mawile may not outright OHKO it depending on its spread but they are still massive pains in the ass and it still doesn't have anything besides shitty Hidden Powers to hit them with. Outrage and Draco Meteor are also big problems especially if you're not running speed and pretty much necessitate a Dragon/Fairy/Steel core to deal with them.
Last edited:
Venusaur has access to both Swords Dance and Curse too.
Also, what was the point of showing Aegeslash using Flash Cannon when every single one carries SE Shadow Ball? Please use relevant calcs when trying to make a point.
>Now I realize that Aegi would normally use Shadow Ball in this instance (which still doesn't even do half), but I just wanted to showcase the immense bulk that is Mega-Latias
Read my post before commenting.
Also M-Venu has only 100 atk, it's reliable recovery has half the PP that Roost has, and it has to choose between a Grass move, a poison move, or a non stab ground move (poison and grass are awful offensive types) in order to run the same set. And again, M-Venu STILL doesn't have the same amount of bulk as M-Latias.
Last edited:
I read your post bro. I'm correcting inaccuracies. If you read MY post, you'd notice I never mentioned anything regarding Mega Latias, or the comparison with Mega Venusaur. But if you're going to attempt to demonstrate Mega Latias's bulk, please don't do it with a move that any sensible player wouldn't even carry on Aegislash, let alone select over Shadow Ball against Mega Latias.
That said, while Mega Venusaur has the distinct type and ability advantage, Latias has the offensive type and stat advantage. A defensive pokemon with a Speed of 110 is phenomenal, and Latias can cover much more of the metagame with her offensive options compared to Venusaure. That said, access to Sleep Powder and Leech Seed are huge advantages for Venusaur, on top of being immune to Toxic and Leech Seed itself. This isn't a cut and dry comparison where one is superior over the other, and it would certainly help to have some actual game time with Latias to see her actual effectiveness of course. That said, for a defensive Megamon it comes down mainly to team synergy. If you have several Electric and Steel pokemon for example, you probably don't fear bird spam and Venusaur would be amazing.
That said, while Mega Venusaur has the distinct type and ability advantage, Latias has the offensive type and stat advantage. A defensive pokemon with a Speed of 110 is phenomenal, and Latias can cover much more of the metagame with her offensive options compared to Venusaure. That said, access to Sleep Powder and Leech Seed are huge advantages for Venusaur, on top of being immune to Toxic and Leech Seed itself. This isn't a cut and dry comparison where one is superior over the other, and it would certainly help to have some actual game time with Latias to see her actual effectiveness of course. That said, for a defensive Megamon it comes down mainly to team synergy. If you have several Electric and Steel pokemon for example, you probably don't fear bird spam and Venusaur would be amazing.
Would it have been better if I had boosted Bulbasaur's special attack to 438, then had it use an 80 power Sludge Bomb on it? That point was what it could take, not what was dishing it out. It was a hypothetical demonstration of it's bulk. I you really want a "relevant" calc
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latias: 75-90 (20.6 - 24.7%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
There, does that look better? Doesn't even break the sub.
I wasn't saying M-Latias is superior to M-Venu, that would be an impossible comparison, as they do different things. My point is that it is a greatly inferior set up sweeper, which you seemed to imply it was on par with M-Latias with
If that wasn't your implication, I'm not sure what the point of saying that was.
It was merely correcting this statement. No more. No less.
Yes, I understand you were trying to demonstrate what it could take, but your Landorus example is a far better and more relevant one to support your argument.
Well then let me rephrase that: M-Venu can't boost it's RELEVANT offenses outside of growth. The only physical move that's worth putting on M-Venu is eq to hit Heatran. Now if it got Calm Mind, I could see it being used as a set-up sweeper, but alas, it can't boost it's special attack outside of Growth, which is terrible outside of sun.
Mega latias? Probably and deservedly so, but you're crazy if you think mega latios will get banned. Even crazier to think latios is more ban worthy than latias.
I do realise those posts were posted before we got all the new ridiculous mega stats, but even still, mega latios on a purely thereoymon perspective is nothing to write home about.
I do realise those posts were posted before we got all the new ridiculous mega stats, but even still, mega latios on a purely thereoymon perspective is nothing to write home about.
I really want to try a DD Mega latios set tho, what sets it apart from char-x is its speed which is actually pretty amazing. Its a bit weaker physically since it doesn't have tough claws, but its base 110 speed lets it reach 350 unboosted to Char's 328. M-Latios reaches 525 speed which outspeeds pretty much all of the meta. Of course I'll have to test its effectiveness but it seems good on paper.
Latios-Mega (M) @ Latiosite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Zen Headbutt
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
Set i threw together since short on time.
Latios-Mega (M) @ Latiosite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Zen Headbutt
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
Set i threw together since short on time.
Mixed set would also work, given Latios has impressive SpA, even when uninvested.
Latios-Mega (M) @ Latiosite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
Maybe...
I also considered that, but I thought it may be too weak to be worth using you know.
I find that Mega-Latios works as a great offensive "nuke pivot" (and partner for Swords Dance Talonflame) when using this set.
Talon's Waifu (Latios) (M) @ Latiosite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 168 SpA / 92 Spe
Modest Nature
- Recover
- Defog
- Psyshock
- Draco Meteor
- 248 HP is to be as bulky as possible while taking less damage from entry hazards.
- A Modest Nature and 168 Special Attack EVs allow you to reach an impressive stat of 437 which is the same as Jolly Mega Pinsir's Attack.
- 92 Speed EVs places you at 279, which allows you to outrun Jolly Mega Heracross, Max Speed Taunt Heatran, Breloom, Stallbreaker Mew, Non-SubTox Gliscor, and Bisharp.
- This set is primarily designed for consistent Defog usage, longevity, and to take advantage of M-Latios' above average bulk and excellent resistances to Fire, Water, Grass, Electric, and Fighting. (Keldeo will cry even more lol)
- However, it can also be used as a surprise check to some threats if near full health.
A Few Calcs (I've modified Latios' stats to mirror the Mega Evolution)
Bisharp
252+ Atk Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Latios: 282-332 (77.6 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
168+ SpA Latios Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 174-204 (63.9 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Greninja
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 281-330 (77.4 - 90.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO)
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 250-296 (68.8 - 81.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(Obvious OHKO with Draco Meteor)
***
-Because of that strong 437 Special Attack, this Latios can also cleanup once his threats are weakened/taken care of and is by no means a sitting duck. He has great synergy with Swords Dance Talonflame because the bird OHKO's many of the faster threats that this Latios can't handle (please don't try getting this thing to tank an M-Garde Hyper Voice, Beedrill U-Turn, or Latias Draco Meteor, it won't.) This Latios appreciates support from teammates that can pick-off faster threats, and in return, it will sponge elemental hits and nuke things with Draco Meteor.
Actually I sort of lied about Beedrill...
252 Atk Adaptability Beedrill U-turn vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Latios: 340-404 (93.6 - 111.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO. Eh maybe it can tank it...
Talon's Waifu (Latios) (M) @ Latiosite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 168 SpA / 92 Spe
Modest Nature
- Recover
- Defog
- Psyshock
- Draco Meteor
- 248 HP is to be as bulky as possible while taking less damage from entry hazards.
- A Modest Nature and 168 Special Attack EVs allow you to reach an impressive stat of 437 which is the same as Jolly Mega Pinsir's Attack.
- 92 Speed EVs places you at 279, which allows you to outrun Jolly Mega Heracross, Max Speed Taunt Heatran, Breloom, Stallbreaker Mew, Non-SubTox Gliscor, and Bisharp.
- This set is primarily designed for consistent Defog usage, longevity, and to take advantage of M-Latios' above average bulk and excellent resistances to Fire, Water, Grass, Electric, and Fighting. (Keldeo will cry even more lol)
- However, it can also be used as a surprise check to some threats if near full health.
A Few Calcs (I've modified Latios' stats to mirror the Mega Evolution)
Bisharp
252+ Atk Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Latios: 282-332 (77.6 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
168+ SpA Latios Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 174-204 (63.9 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Greninja
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 281-330 (77.4 - 90.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO)
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 250-296 (68.8 - 81.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(Obvious OHKO with Draco Meteor)
***
-Because of that strong 437 Special Attack, this Latios can also cleanup once his threats are weakened/taken care of and is by no means a sitting duck. He has great synergy with Swords Dance Talonflame because the bird OHKO's many of the faster threats that this Latios can't handle (please don't try getting this thing to tank an M-Garde Hyper Voice, Beedrill U-Turn, or Latias Draco Meteor, it won't.) This Latios appreciates support from teammates that can pick-off faster threats, and in return, it will sponge elemental hits and nuke things with Draco Meteor.
Actually I sort of lied about Beedrill...
252 Atk Adaptability Beedrill U-turn vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Latios: 340-404 (93.6 - 111.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO. Eh maybe it can tank it...
Last edited:
- Status