Resource RU Viability Ranking

[g]

As HotnCold said Bronzong is one of the few Steel-types that can freely switch into ground types (and rhyperior is one of the most common and dangerous pokemon in the metagame) and one of the most reliable Stealth Rock setters thanks to its raw bulk and the aforementioned typing and ability.
I really don't get this discussion on what is Bronzong best set and i don't think the good old Defensive Stealth Rock set is outclassed by anything really (i get that most teams appreciate more having Rhyperior or Cobalion or Registeel or whatever but Zong is IMMUNE to ground and not weak to fighting) even with the brand new two weaknesses so Bronzong should be B.

I also want to say i support Meru's Cradily nomination as it is one of the best Exploud switch-ins and the only one that i can think of that has access to reliable recovery.
It is also a cool answer to Jolteon resisting its stab and being immune to the now popular Hidden Power Water (can't do much to subpass but w/e). It is only really for stall teams but still might deserve to be C.

Also add Gothorita to B- come on its awesome.

Stuff that probably needs to be moved but i don't have time im only writing cuz Italy-England's second half hasn't started yet.

Emboar: B+ (scarf is slow even against web teams lol and mixed sets are ouclassed by zoro bar fighting coverage)
Rotom-Mow: B+ (niche against web teams, jolt check, perior check, coolstuff)
Whimsicott: B-/C+ (same rank as rotom cut this thing is garb)
Roselia: B- (awesome mola partner, spikes and tspikes, cute)
Mismagius: A- (controversial but dbond+web immunity is really really cool imo)
Gothorita: B- (i say this again but this is awesome lol pls add)

 

[Molk]

Even though there really havent been any posts here in a few days im gonna make some updates.

Updates

Abomasnow (Mega) up to A-
Bronzong up to B
Rotom-Mow up to B+
Gothorita added to C+
Roselia up to B-
Cradily added to C
Whimsicott down to B-

I'd like a bit more discussion on the following Pokemon this time around: Emboar, Mismagius

Also i know Galbia didn't provide replays for Gothorita or Cradily, but i've watched a bunch of his and several other people's games on PS and i can confirm for a fact that Gothorita and Cradily definitely deserves to be ranked somewhere on this thread. Plus Gothorita was actually proposed to be added a while ago but never was.

 

[Afro Smash]

Agreeing with Mismagius being bump to A-, has perfect coverage with Gleam and Shadow Ball, Destiny Bond to eliminate key threats, Nasty Plot to boost and sweep, Base 105 and immune to web means it can beat most Web reliant mons 1v1, and it spinblocks. Quite the God(dess).

Doublade should be S imo, its typing is just insanely good allowing it to completely shut down a ton of mons such as Cobalion, Virizion, Cincinno, Durant, and its massive Physical Defense means it can tank Knock Offs from the likes of Hitmonlee and EQ's from Hitmontop with relative ease, making it an incredibly good Spin Blocker, which is exceedingly useful in a tier filled with Hazard setters such as Froslass, Shuckle and Qwilfish. It can then proceed to set up SD's on on the vast number of pokemon it walls and attempt a sweep, and has perfect coverage with Ghost/Steel outside of Pyroar I believe.

Mega Abomasnow should be A, it has great Defences, Attacking stats and amazing coverage, as well prio Ice Shard. The Speed drop from mega isn't too favourable but a smart player can hold off on the mega to ensure they outspeed Ryhperior and a whole host of base 50's.

Xatu should be B/B+ its a complete stop to Hazard setters like Shuckle, Qwilfish, Gligar and Registeel. Admittedly it struggles to take on the most popular in Rhyperior and Froslass, but good prediction and Grass Knot can kinda help. Then the useful resistances and generally being able to bounce back Status, just makes it a very useful mon.

Claydol C+ - I know having a Spinner weak to Ghost usn't ideal, but Claydol has a bunch of other stuff going for it. Its a spinner thats immune to Spikes/Web and resists Rocks, has great Sp Def, and can block Volt Switch. I know ur a hater Molk but Claydol does have its uses

Gurdurr B/B+ - With the Knock Off buff Gurdurr became a massive, but underrated threat. Huge Physical bulk combined with Guts and Bulk Up means taking this thing down and stopping it from just saping your health with Drain Punch is super difficult, it can Check some of the tiers biggest threats such as Escav, Zoro, Cobalion, Doublade and now with the Knock Off buff Psychic types are no longer a safe switch, with Delphox being OHKO'd and Slowking being 2HKO'd. Then hes got Mach Punch as a good way to revenge killweakened Hitmonlees and Explouds etc. Can even surprise opps with SE or Poison Jab to smash through his usual Checks, Gurdurr needs more love.

 

[Durant]

Claydol C+ - I know having a Spinner weak to Ghost usn't ideal, but Claydol has a bunch of other stuff going for it. Its a spinner thats immune to Spikes/Web and resists Rocks, has great Sp Def, and can block Volt Switch. I know ur a hater Molk but Claydol does have its uses

Well you mentioned all those advantages but there it's main competitor can do the same but better:

Unlike Claydol Gligar isn't weak to Ghost type attacks and just isn't weak to as much crap as Claydol. Gligar is also immune to Sticky Web and Spikes and while he doesn't resist Stealth Rock it has reliable recovery to make up for that. I can give you that Gligar isn't the best special wall but it is also immune to Volt Switch. However Gligar has many things over Cladyol. First is that while Claydol has higher special defense Gligar has way higher defense. Some attackers Claydol couldn't even dream of walling like Rhyperior are walled pretty easily by Gligar. Second is that Gligar has a better typing. Sure Gligar has a bigger 4x times ice weakness and doesn't resist Rock but that is really it. Claydol is weak to a whopping 6 times which means that most of the time a Pokemon it's supposed to wall has a super effective move against it. Gligar however only has 2 weaknesses compared to Claydol's 6 weaknesses which make it much better at walling stuff. And third and most importantly is that Gligar has reliable recovery. Claydol has no way of recovering it's health which is really troublesome as it will be easily worn down over time even with practically taking no damage from entry hazards. Gligar however has Roost to keep him alive much longer and wall Pokemon better. This could be fixed by running a Wish passer but that requires support for an already mediocre Pokemon.

The only time I would consider Claydol is when I need a Pokemon that resists Earthquake + Stone Edge that can get away hazards without taking away your own hazards.

 

[atomicllamas]

ugh I hate that this keeps coming up. Gligar and Claydol are fundamentally different because for some teams you absolutely need spin and can't use defog @_@.

 

[Afro Smash]

Its also a far better Check to all Electric types though, since they often carry HP Ice coverage. I don't deny Gligar is overall more useful, but Claydol fills a niche that should place it higher than D imo, also how isn't Rhyperior walled by Claydol? I've yet to see Megahorn on Rhyperior, Protect or a phazing move are far more common. And yeah you can run Claydol alongside your own Hazard setters with is a big plus.

 

[Durant]

Its also a far better Check to all Electric types though, since they often carry HP Ice coverage. I don't deny Gligar is overall more useful, but Claydol fills a niche that should place it higher than D imo, also how isn't Rhyperior walled by Claydol? I've yet to see Megahorn on Rhyperior. And yeah you can run Claydol alongside your own Hazard setters with is a big plus.

Well isn't D rank a rank for niche Pokemon like Claydol. I mean it may be able to move up but nowhere near C+. I think moving it to C- would be good at most. Also quite a few Rhyperior's carry Megahorn at least from what I have seen. May have changed though but not sure.

 

[Ares]

Agreeing with Mismagius being bump to A-, has perfect coverage with Gleam and Shadow Ball, Destiny Bond to eliminate key threats, Nasty Plot to boost and sweep, Base 105 and immune to web means it can beat most Web reliant mons 1v1, and it spinblocks. Quite the God(dess).

Doublade should be S imo, its typing is just insanely good allowing it to completely shut down a ton of mons such as Cobalion, Virizion, Cincinno, Durant, and its massive Physical Defense means it can tank Knock Offs from the likes of Hitmonlee and EQ's from Hitmontop with relative ease, making it an incredibly good Spin Blocker, which is exceedingly useful in a tier filled with Hazard setters such as Froslass, Shuckle and Qwilfish. It can then proceed to set up SD's on on the vast number of pokemon it walls and attempt a sweep, and has perfect coverage with Ghost/Steel outside of Pyroar I believe.

Mega Abomasnow should be A, it has great Defences, Attacking stats and amazing coverage, as well prio Ice Shard. The Speed drop from mega isn't too favourable but a smart player can hold off on the mega to ensure they outspeed Ryhperior and a whole host of base 50's.

Xatu should be B/B+ its a complete stop to Hazard setters like Shuckle, Qwilfish, Gligar and Registeel. Admittedly it struggles to take on the most popular in Rhyperior and Froslass, but good prediction and Grass Knot can kinda help. Then the useful resistances and generally being able to bounce back Status, just makes it a very useful mon.

Claydol C+ - I know having a Spinner weak to Ghost usn't ideal, but Claydol has a bunch of other stuff going for it. Its a spinner thats immune to Spikes/Web and resists Rocks, has great Sp Def, and can block Volt Switch. I know ur a hater Molk but Claydol does have its uses

Gurdurr B/B+ - With the Knock Off buff Gurdurr became a massive, but underrated threat. Huge Physical bulk combined with Guts and Bulk Up means taking this thing down and stopping it from just saping your health with Drain Punch is super difficult, it can Check some of the tiers biggest threats such as Escav, Zoro, Cobalion, Doublade and now with the Knock Off buff Psychic types are no longer a safe switch, with Delphox being OHKO'd and Slowking being 2HKO'd. Then hes got Mach Punch as a good way to revenge killweakened Hitmonlees and Explouds etc. Can even surprise opps with SE or Poison Jab to smash through his usual Checks, Gurdurr needs more love.

I dont know about a bump up to A- for Mismagius. It has some very viable sets that make it quite good but that fact still remains it gets rekt by anything with knock off or a physical move. Yes you can use the set that runs will-o but then you give up coverage. And after a nasty plot Mismagius cant OHKO a lot of things it needs to unless you have prior damage or entry hazard support. But the fact remains it still gets rekt by anything with knock off or anything that has a hard hitting physical move. So since it doesnt have the bulk or the stopping power I think it should stay where it is right now.

I agree with moving Doublade up to S rank. It is a massive threat right now in conjunction with shuckle and sticky web. After setting up an SD it can very easily do massive damage or sweep teams unless you have a good counter. The eviolite and huge base defensive stat ensure that it can take any super effective physical hit and 1hko-2hko with the shadow sneak combo. Also one of the most powerful fire types in delphox cant even come in and kill it because it cant take a shadow sneak at +2.

Claydol should at least be C-. It is much better to have Claydol over gligar on a team where you are using lots of hazards. The immunity to spikes/web and the resistance to rocks makes it a viable spinner on a team based on hazards. Also one of the biggest spin blockers in the tier, Doublade, gets hit very hard by Claydol from earth power if you predict the spin. In fact you can 2HKO Doublade and only take minimal damage from shadow sneak. This alone should be enough to move it up to C- if not C-C+
0 SpA Claydol Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Doublade: 168-200 (52.1 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Claydol: 122-146 (37.6 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Emboar should either stay at A- or move up to A. There are 3-4 very viable sets you can run on Emboar and until you figure out which one it is you could potentially lose a wall. The first two are scarf/band. The scarf allowing you to outspeed threats, and with the coverage Emboar gets it can also be a very ideal revenge killer. While the band allows it to hit hard ofc. The 3rd set is running an E-belt set allowing you to bluff the scarf/band and potentially catch an opponent off guard when they think you are locked into a move. The E-belt also allows Emboar to go mixed allowing it to hit hard on both sides. With strong stab moves for both physical and special, Flare Blitz and Super Power/Fire Blast and Focus Miss. The coverage and versatility of Emboar should be enough for it to stay where it is or move up to A.

 

[aVocado]

I agree with moving Doublade up to S rank. It is a massive threat right now in conjunction with shuckle and sticky web. After setting up an SD it can very easily do massive damage or sweep teams unless you have a good counter. The eviolite and huge base defensive stat ensure that it can take any super effective physical hit and 1hko-2hko with the shadow sneak combo. Also one of the most powerful fire types in delphox cant even come in and kill it because it cant take a shadow sneak at +2.

I disagree about Doublade for S. S-rank is for Pokemon who sweep the majority of the tier with little effort, Doublade doesn't fit that category. It suffers the same Aegislash suffered in OU early this generation, even after SD, Shadow Sneak is still a weak move and won't OHKO a lot of Pokemon that aren't weak to it. This means that a lot of Pokemon, like Moltres, Alomomola, Rhyperior (it can take an iron head), Zoroark, Emboar, Shiftry and then even Pokemon like Jolteon and Heliolisk can all take a Shadow Sneak and really hurt Doublade back, especially considering that its special bulk is poor even with Eviolite. Doublade should either stay where it is or maybe rise up to A, since that's where it belongs imo.

Claydol should at least be C-. It is much better to have Claydol over gligar on a team where you are using lots of hazards. The immunity to spikes/web and the resistance to rocks makes it a viable spinner on a team based on hazards. Also one of the biggest spin blockers in the tier, Doublade, gets hit very hard by Claydol from earth power if you predict the spin. In fact you can 2HKO Doublade and only take minimal damage from shadow sneak. This alone should be enough to move it up to C- if not C-C+
0 SpA Claydol Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Doublade: 168-200 (52.1 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Claydol: 122-146 (37.6 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

I kinda mostly agree here that Claydol can be in C-. Imo it's on the fence between D (having a small niche) and C- (having crippling flaws; outclassed). Beating one of the most common spinblockers is nice, and then it has access to both SR and Spin, but I often found it to be deadweight.

Emboar should either stay at A- or move up to A. There are 3-4 very viable sets you can run on Emboar and until you figure out which one it is you could potentially lose a wall. The first two are scarf/band. The scarf allowing you to outspeed threats, and with the coverage Emboar gets it can also be a very ideal revenge killer. While the band allows it to hit hard ofc. The 3rd set is running an E-belt set allowing you to bluff the scarf/band and potentially catch an opponent off guard when they think you are locked into a move. The E-belt also allows Emboar to go mixed allowing it to hit hard on both sides. With strong stab moves for both physical and special, Flare Blitz and Super Power/Fire Blast and Focus Miss. The coverage and versatility of Emboar should be enough for it to stay where it is or move up to A.

It's true that Emboar has a number of viable sets and that it can be unpredictable, but all it takes is 1 pivot switch to know which set it is. Emboar will never OHKO Pokemon like Slowking or Alomomola (unless it's a perfectly timed CB Wild Charge in Slowking's case; alomomola always wins), and they can afford to come in, take a hit to know what set it is (scarf will be weak, LO will show recoil, band will be strong, and E-belt can be figured out with a calc) and then switch out to the appropriate Pokemon, activating Regenerator in the process. It's very easy to handle on balance teams, and its too slow vs. offensive teams unless its Scarf, which is very good against them. It should stay A- imo, where it fits. Threatening, but not enough to make all teams 'lose a wall'.

 

[Ares]

I disagree about Doublade for S. S-rank is for Pokemon who sweep the majority of the tier with little effort, Doublade doesn't fit that category. It suffers the same Aegislash suffered in OU early this generation, even after SD, Shadow Sneak is still a weak move and won't OHKO a lot of Pokemon that aren't weak to it. This means that a lot of Pokemon, like Moltres, Alomomola, Rhyperior (it can take an iron head), Zoroark, Emboar, Shiftry and then even Pokemon like Jolteon and Heliolisk can all take a Shadow Sneak and really hurt Doublade back, especially considering that its special bulk is poor even with Eviolite. Doublade should either stay where it is or maybe rise up to A, since that's where it belongs imo.

The thing is that Doublade can take a hit after eviolite from everything barring Moltres and Zorark. He can then proceed to KO the threats with scared sword/iron head (after a swords dance) shadow sneak combo. Also one of the few things that walls Doublade completely is Mola. But the thing is that the only thing that Mola can do in return is to get a burn with scald. Now I have been using Mola as my Doublade counter and after trying to get a burn with Mola for 7 turns straight, Doublade then proceeded to sweep my team.

Emboar- +2 252+ Atk Doublade Sacred Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Emboar: 272-320 (75.3 - 88.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO +2 252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Emboar: 181-214 (50.1 - 59.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
in return Emboar does: 252 Atk Expert Belt Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 216-254 (67 - 78.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Band can potentially KO however) 252+ Atk Choice Band Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 290-344 (90 - 106.8%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

Rhyperior- +2 252+ Atk Doublade Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 306-360 (70.5 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery +2 252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior: 102-121 (23.5 - 27.8%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
In return Rhyperior does: 252+ Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 180-212 (55.9 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Shiftry gets OHKO'd by sacred sword and does: 252+ Atk Life Orb Shiftry Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 179-213 (55.5 - 66.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Also with prior damage from rock switch in/LO with jolteon you can kill with shadow sneak (and since people use this as a pivot getting down to 83% shouldnt be a problem): +2 252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Sneak vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Jolteon: 193-228 (70.9 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Now with a combo of Heliolisk plus the above the you can get Doublade out of the way.

If you get rocks up then you can also handle Moltres because at +2 you can potentially kill: +2 252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Moltres: 139-165 (43.3 - 51.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Another pokemon that can counter Doublade and kill is Meloetta. So far the list that counters and prevents a sweep is pretty small and handalble. Moltres is taken care of with rocks, Zorark can be taken care of with guess work (iffy) and Meloetta is the only one that can OHKO and cant be shadow sneaked for the kill.

(Please note I used default sets that the calc provided)

With very few reliable stops to Doublade this should be more than enough to move it up to S rank.
S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths.

 

[dingbat]

I'm not certain about Doublade going up to S rank but I agree with the notion of the majority of us that it needs to be bumped up much higher, to at least an A+ rank. This thing really causes a ton of headache as it can really stomach some significantly strong attacks on the physical end with its eviolite as shown in some previous post from mine and quite frankly, there aren't many reliable answers to its really powerful combination of moves. What keeps this thing from being S rank imo is the fact that it's really easy to wear down on the special end and to a lesser extent this thing is really a target for status as No Guard also ensures that every single move hits when it is on the field.

To conclude I believe that Doublade is definitely on par with the likes of A+ mons like Sharpedo and Escavalier but S rank may be a little high for it.

 

[BurningFury101]

Disagreeing with Doublade moving up to S Rank. Doublade is checked by a fuck ton of things, Meloetta, Delphox, Moltres, Zoroark, Rhyperior, and with Spikes down (Which is insane easy to get down btw) even more check Doublade like Mismagius, Slowking (Fire Blast) and Jolteon. This isn't like Baton Pass where you have to run a specific counter, you'll probably end up having one on your team anyway. Not to mention that every single calculation you're doing has Doublade at +2, where did it set up a Swords Dance, though? According to your team it sets up and Mola, which could easily get a burn, the sweep that happened to you was because you didn't get a burn, i.e luck. Moltres OHKO's Doublade with Flamethrower (Considering Doublade has a 252/4 spread), survives the +2 Shadow Sneak without Rocks down, and Rhyperior beats Doublade (Iron Head/Shadow Sneak doesn't kill if Rhyperior runs 252 HP). You can always use Emboar to get damage off on Doublade, then bring in something else. Honestly from your post it looks as if your just letting them sweep you, you have three Pokemon that can beat it, even if they're all gone the rest of your team, with one of them sacrificed you can kill it with another Pokemon. This and everything that Arikado said above makes this stay at A- or bump it up to A Rank, S Rank is simply over the top in my opinion.

I disagree about Doublade for S. S-rank is for Pokemon who sweep the majority of the tier with little effort, Doublade doesn't fit that category. It suffers the same Aegislash suffered in OU early this generation, even after SD, Shadow Sneak is still a weak move and won't OHKO a lot of Pokemon that aren't weak to it. This means that a lot of Pokemon, like Moltres, Alomomola, Rhyperior (it can take an iron head), Zoroark, Emboar, Shiftry and then even Pokemon like Jolteon and Heliolisk can all take a Shadow Sneak and really hurt Doublade back, especially considering that its special bulk is poor even with Eviolite. Doublade should either stay where it is or maybe rise up to A, since that's where it belongs imo.

 

[Don Honchkrorleone]

Many of you are arguing that Doublade should go for S or stay at A- or bump just to A. Doublade is indeed one of the faces of the metagame, being an amazing spinblocker and a bulky set-up sweeper at the same time. Steel/Ghost is an amazing type with a shitton of useful resistances and reliable STAB movesthat go together with Swords Dance. It has amazing physical bulk with a whooping base 150, and it's bolstered even more by Eviolite (which unfortunately makes the Sword Pokemon extremely reliant on it). However, Doublade is possibly the most predictable Pokemon of the tier, even more than Alomomola (DDD [Double Dance Doublade] is cool especially under webs but no one uses it :L). When you see it, you know it's SD/Shadow Sneak/Steel STAB/Shadow Claw or Sacred Sword (Shadow Claw is better unless Bibarel is a threat to your team). Does it stop being threatenning? Of course not! But the predictability is a let down. Also while Doublade has amazing physical bulk, its special bulk is kinda subpar, and special Fire moves are very common. Doublade is also very easy to wear down, and while Wish can solve this problem, some teams really don't have room for a Wish user. Finally there is his extremely wasted ability in No Guard, actually helping the foes if they have a move like Will-O-Wisp, Sleep Powder or anything like that, and against strong attacks like Fire Blast and Hydro Pump it's even worse. Does that make Doublade bad? No lol, Doublade is amazing, but imo not THAT amazing as Delphox, Shuckle, Hitmonlee and others. I think A+ is perfect for the Sword Pokemon. Maybe A but A+ seems to fit better.

Claydol... uhhh... It's one of those cases that a Pokemon has a niche, but the niche itself is a niche. Claydol is suited for a team that needs Rapid Spin instead of Defog, and that the spinner should be both bulky and immune to grounded hazard, and, unlike Delibird, not Electric/Rock weak. Claydol has also a good movepool but... uhhh... I don't know really. I have no (and probably won't have so soon) experience with, except with a troll Trick + Ring Target to fuck Ghosts blocking my spin, and most against it was easy. It's bulky and kinda hard to kill without a SE move, but those are SO DAMN COMMON. I think it needs a bigger niche to be moved to C-. Idk, for me it would remain D but it seems on the borderline between both The only things I know about Claydol is that it's much better than Hitmoncrap and that Trck + Ring Target is fun.

 

[CyclicCompound]

Proposing a few drops here, which we need more of imo:

Combusken from B- down to C.

I'm not going to argue that Combusken's support isn't helpful nor dangerous to the opponent, but I feel in a metagame where SmashPassing exists, Combusken is rather outclassed. Gorebyss's greatest asset over Combusken is the fact that SmashPassing is so flexible: Gorebyss can pass to both physical and special attackers with equal efficiency, which makes life significantly easier as it often opens up far more potential for a successful sweep when you can choose from a greater and more diverse pool of sweepers, rather than just physical ones. While Combusken has higher bulk thanks to Eviolite, an increased amount of weaknesses doesn't help it much, and foes such as Fletchinder can easily threaten if not stop Combusken from getting off a safe pass. Finally, if the circumstances don't allow a boost to be passed, Gorebyss has a much easier time sweeping due to the decent coverage from Water- and Ice-type attacks, whereas lower attacking stats and a worse STAB combination (and the inability to run more than one STAB) often make it difficult, if not impossible, for Combusken to hold its own in an emergency late-game sweep.

Overall Combusken should drop down due to the fact that there's little reason to use it if Gorebyss is available.

Pangoro from C+ down to C-.

Pangoro's okay but really nothing impressive, especially when compared to the fact that Hitmonlee exists, who eclipses Pangoro in nearly every way. Better speed, far more power, the ability to spin, and the ability to use Knock Off. Pangoro's two niches lie mostly in STAB Dark-type attacks and Parting Shot, and while Parting Shot seems really cool in theory it's not actually as cool as it seems in battle, where the switching effect often means you force out your opponent the following turn regardless of the attack drops, and most of the time you'd rather just be attacking the switch-in (which brings us back to the first point about being outclassed by Hitmonlee as an attacker). Regarding STAB Dark-type attacks, while they're powerful, Hitmonlee's Knock Off is often sufficient for its purpose, and if the STAB is truly desired, RU has plenty of powerful Dark-type attackers that can fulfill that role as well.

If your team truly struggles against Psychic- or Ghost-types yet strong Fighting-type attacks are also a necessity, then perhaps Pangoro does have a valid spot on your team. However, in most cases, Pangoro is not only outclassed by the other choices available in the tier but is also in possession of only a very small and often insignificant niche. Because of this I think C- is a better spot for it than C+.

 

[phantom]

I have to disagree with Combusken moving down. Having used it a fair amount, I can safely say it isn't outclassed by Gorebyss, or at least not to the degree the above post is harping on about. The bulk from Eviolite is being underrated here a fair amount; that bulk in particular is what lets it accumulate more boosts over time than Gorebyss would. While it's true that Gorebyss can get off more immediate boosts, it's basically limited to using white herb as its item unless it wants to make the task of passing its boost more onerous than it should be. Second, Combusken can actually pass defense boosts via Bulk Up (this also lets it get off a successful pass in the face of Fletchinder should it switch in), while it doesn't put the immediate pressure on the opponent like Swords Dance would, it makes passing to its teammate so much easier and gives them a bit more resilience to priority, which can't be underrated enough. That's not to mention that Speed Boost just passively accumulates with each turn, meaning a well-played Combusken can pass three Speed boosts as opposed to Gorebyss's two. I also don't get how the so-called "extra weaknesses" are a big deal. Take note that Combusken can use Escavalier and Zoroark as setup bait (two very highly ranked threats), so the resistances it gains from its different typing have its uses and outweigh the weakness as a result imo. Third, unlike Gorebyss, Combusken isn't as ruined by phazing. Gorebyss has one shot to use its white herb, and Combusken can just try again if it's forced out and still performs just as successfully whereas Gorebyss has to play a bit more carefully as a result of being subjugated to the -defense drops. As far as the emergency late-game sweeping thing, STAB Flare Blitz is insanely good, in the face of offensive teams, they usually just have one Fire resist and not a very good one at that (Sharpedo) and speaking from experience (having played like a hundred matches using Combusken) it can sweep a lot easier than you make it sound. Combusken should stay in B-, while Gorebyss is generally better, Combusken definitely warrants use as a result of its few, yet notable advantages over it (the nifty resists, speed boost, bulk up, etc).

Basically, the main reason to use Combusken is because it leaves more room for errors due to the fact that is isn't reliant on white herb to pass safely, whereas Gorebyss will have a tough time if it tries to pass boosts twice in the face of a good opponent.

 

[Expulso]

I have a few arguments to put forth; please read through these and share your opinions, even if they're contrary to mine.

Delphox: S ---> A+
Delphox is still an excellent Pokemon in the current meta, that's for sure. However, it does face a multitude of challenges that I believe make it unworthy of the coveted S-rank. First of all, Sticky Web has recently become far more common, due to the rise of Shuckle. This seriously troubles Delphox, as it is very frail – especially on the Physical side – and struggles to take even neutral attacks. It is also seriously troubled by many other things in the current meta, such as the rise of Alomomola + TSpikes; Alomomola largely walls it, while TSpikes cut down on its survivability; the ubiquity of Stealth Rock also doesn't help! Furthermore, it is easily revenged, and is weak to Pursuit. While these may all be minor things, I believe they are enough to make Delphox A+.

Moltres: A ---> A+
Whereas Delphox struggles with Sticky Web, Moltres hugely benefits from it. With tremendous power and excellent dual STABs, Moltres can fire off tremendously powerful attacks from above the battlefield; this strategic position grants it an immunity to (Toxic) Spikes and Sticky Web. It can also run Flame Charge, which enables it to beat faster Pokemon that could once revenge it. In addition, a more defensive set is also one of the best viable Doublade counters; it takes nigh nothing from Iron Head and Sacred Sword while not being heavily damaged by Shadow Claw, and can return fire with a Flamethrower from base 125 Special Attack; this OHKOs even without investment. However, it is held back by the prevalence of Stealth Rock and Rhyperior, but not enough to merit A-rank. Like Delphox, it has immense power but one small thing holding it back; A+ please.

 

[EonX]

Whoo boy. Lot's to cover. (wish I had more free time this month tbh) Hope I get everything!

Doublade: As much experience as I have with it, I don't think Doublade is worthy of S rank. While it is extremely useful for Spikes and Web Offense teams as a spinblocker that provides offensive presence and a strong check to Hitmonlee, Doublade still has some issues with very common threats. Moltres trashes it, special variants of Zoroark run all over it and can use Illusion to make it feel safe, and Alomomola is a major roadblock for it. That said, it is still a very solid Pokemon and deserves to be A+ imo. Through my time using it, I have used SD/Sneak/Iron Head/Shadow Claw. The last move is bolded because so many people don't seem to run it, thinking Sacred Sword is better. Uh, it's not. The only two relevant targets, Cobalion and Registeel, aren't doing a damn thing to you any time soon anyway. Shadow Claw destroys Slowking, Cofagrigus, Reuniclus, and others before they can beat or cripple Doublade. Great Pokemon. Has a few issues with some very common threats, but is otherwise very dangerous. Befitting of an A+ mon imo.

Claydol: Feel like we've driven this into the ground a lot. Basically, if your team needs a defensive spinner that is immune to (Toxic) Spikes and Sticky Web, Claydol is the right choice. Otherwise, you're better off using Gligar or Hitmontop as defensive hazard removers. It's a good enough niche for D, but I find it hard to justify putting it in any C rank.

Emboar: Emboar is one of many Pokemon that can benefit from Sticky Web support due to its low Speed and high offensive stats. The ability to go mixed is really useful, and it even comes with priority in Sucker Punch. The problem is that non-Scarf variants of Emboar are crushed by Moltres (resists both STABs) Yanmega (4x resists Superpower) and Braviary (can't switch-in, but super common on Web Offense teams atm) while it can't really deal with the likes of AV Slowking, Alomomola (especially SpDef variants) and Qwilfish. All of these are rather common Pokemon, whether it be on offensive or defensive teams, thus limiting Emboar's effectiveness as a wallbreaker. Of course, if you don't have one of these Pokemon, then good luck trying to switch-in as Emboar has great coverage, but most teams should generally have one of the above Pokemon to put pressure on Emboar. It's a good Pokemon, but I think it's just fine at A-.

Gurdurr: Surprised nobody else has talked about this nomination. It sounds silly at first, but Gurdurr is actually quite the formiddable threat against many Web Offense teams. It's not the easiest to switch-in against such teams, but it's not like these teams have many ways to switch into Gurdurr and prevent it from killing a mon. Gurdurr is perhaps even more deadly against Stall teams since it benefits from being hit with status and still has STAB Drain Punch to stay healthy. Knock Off is a pretty major boon for it and it has always been an underrated, but effective (with proper support!) Bulk Up sweeper. Idk about B+, but I'd be down with this thing moving to B.

Delphox: As much as I love Delphox, I have to agree with this move. With the ubiquity of Sticky Web teams, Delphox is either forced to run a Choice Scarf to maintain its Speed (sucks to lose all that power) or try and take a hit to strike back (not the best idea) With Hitmonlee and Zoroark being so common on Web Offense teams (as well as Doublade) it's hard for Delphox to get in and wreck havoc. While its coverage is as good as ever, and it still has the same power it has had since the start of XY, Sticky Web has taken away Delphox's flexibility as a powerful, fast special attacker. Agreeing with the drop to A+.

Moltres: Fuck Flame Charge. Be a man and use Agility. As much of a joke as I made that sound, I have almost exclusively used an Agility set for the entirety of XY. While Agility Moltres might not be quite as effective in today's metagame, it's still a really cool way to make the opponent panic like never before and prey for a Hurricane miss to save his ass. Specs Moltres nukes tons of shit for Web Offense teams. SubRoost is interesting for stall / defensive teams in need of some firepower while still keeping to the core defensive tactics of stall-based teams. The Scarf set may require more support than any other, but with fast U-turners in high demand to limit Froslass's ability to set Spikes, it isn't exactly a terrible choice. And of course, there's the tried and true Roost + 3 Attacks set. Moltres is highly versatile, can fit onto virtually any type of team, and only truly requires Rapid Spin / Defog support. And it just so happens that Hitmonlee is amazing right now. Agree with the move to A+. Great versatility, benefits immensely from Sticky Web and Spikes, and very easy to provide it's major support need without tailoring your whole team to it. AV Slowking sucks for this guy though.

May make my own nomination if I have time to get my thoughts together for it.

 

[aVocado]

+1 252 SpA Life Orb Delphox Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Alomomola: 489-577 (91.5 - 108%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

Alomomola walls Delphox.. how?

4 SpA Alomomola Scald vs. +1 4 HP / 0 SpD Delphox: 60-72 (20.5 - 24.6%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

Assuming the best set for Delphox, it beats Alomomola every single time even if it carries Psyshock over Psychic, as Grass Knot still does like 85%. Alomomola can't KO even with Waterfall:

0 Atk Alomomola Waterfall vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Delphox: 180-212 (61.6 - 72.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

But I guess the metagame shifted towards a more offensive approach, and CM Delphox is more of a wallvreaker than a sweeper, so yeah, I could see why people think it should be A+.

edit: also i've been saying fire burd should be A+ ever since like page 1 but no one ever agreed lol. It was great even before SW's popularity. Definitely agree.

 

[Nails]

+1 252 SpA Life Orb Delphox Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Alomomola: 489-577 (91.5 - 108%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

Alomomola walls Delphox.. how?

4 SpA Alomomola Scald vs. +1 4 HP / 0 SpD Delphox: 60-72 (20.5 - 24.6%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

Assuming the best set for Delphox, it beats Alomomola every single time even if it carries Psyshock over Psychic, as Grass Knot still does like 85%. Alomomola can't KO even with Waterfall:

0 Atk Alomomola Waterfall vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Delphox: 180-212 (61.6 - 72.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I'm not gonna argue mola walls delphox but no one uses 0 sdef mola. Max+ sdef with a split of def/hp is standard. And you can switch into fire blast and force it out with scald.

 

[Honko]

Alomomola should run lots of SpD investment this gen (and probably last gen too but nobody listened to me then smh). Delphox beats it with CM, but Alomomola walls Scarf/Specs pretty well, although it doesn't like Switcheroo. Specs Psychic 2HKOes but Mola can just switch back out.

252 SpA Choice Specs Delphox Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 40 HP / 252 SpD Alomomola: 224-264 (46.5 - 54.8%)

Nails is just so fast I can't keep up with his blistering pace.

 

[Turtleye]

I'm going to nomite Weezing to B/B-.
Weezing is just so damn good in the meta right now. It's typing combined with Levitate leaves it with only one weakness, which is awesome. It resists Bug, Grass and, most notably, Fighting. Combine that with the fact tha it learns Will-o-Wisp and you've got yourself on hell of a physical wall. No recovery is a shame but it learns at leats Pain Split.
Besides walling stuff on the physical side, it also has some good utility in stopping set-up sweepers cold with a combination of Haze and Toxic Spikes. Speaking about Toxic Spikes, they are pretty good right now and force a lot of switches on defensive teams. I've expiremented a bit with them and Weezing is the best setter of them right now due to it's resistances. It also isn't a completely sitting duck if it gets taunted, STAB sludgebomb hurts stuff but it's not that powerful so yea. It also gets Flamethrower to fend of steal types who don't get poisoned.

0 SpA Weezing Flamethrower vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Cobalion: 148-176 (45.6 - 54.3%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Overall weezing is a pretty cool 'mon right now, Resisting Fighting (thus being the biggest stop to hitmonlee ever), access to WoW, Tspikes and other cool support moves like Haze make it very solid right now. It does have some 4MSS since it wants to run Sludge Bomb/WoW or Tspikes/Flamethrower/Haze/Pain Split but aside from that it is a pretty solid mon right now. Definitely deserves at least B rank, but in my opinion B+ is fitting.

 

[DittoCrow]

I used Claydol in the Sableye meta and it honestly wasn't that bad. I don't see how it's not at least in the same rank as Sandslash. I will admit that it was probably better in stage 0 because of all the Raikou around, but honestly in the hands of the right player, it can get the job done. I also agree with Afro Smash's reasoning for moving Claydol up. It should be either C or C- imo, but keep it somewhere for good because I'm tired of the discussion on such an insignificant Pokemon and small rank changes.

I also think that Doublade deserves to be in A+. It's definitely the best spinblocker in the tier since it handles Hitmonlee, and it has a ton of other uses that I'm sure have been mentioned already. It's a full stop to a lot of Pokemon like Afro Smash said.

Also I'm going to nominate Rhyperior for somewhere in A Rank. Yeah it's a great support Pokemon, but I barely have to watch out for it in the team preview. It's actually quite easy to deal with due to its lack of reliable recovery and multiple weaknesses. Every team usually has more than one or two Pokemon to deal with it. Plus I'm not sure how versatile it is, but I don't really think that Rhyperior fits the definition of S Rank.

Finally I'm going to nom Sharpedo for S Rank. It's definitely one of the most fearsome late-game sweepers in the tier, and if you're running an offensive team, you have to play carefully to keep certain mons at full health or save your Hitmonlee, which can cause you to make riskier plays.

 

[Delibird is Amazing]

froslass is now kill
she needs to be removed

Molk Edit: removing on thursday

 

[Yellow Cheese]

If froslass is truly kill, accelgor should imo move up to B rank atleast since it has no competition as a Fast/lead spiker (?), and unburden + sash + encore almost always ensures atleast 2 layers of spikes. Fuck rock blast Rhyperior

And when we are talking about Mismagius, I agree with afro smash, 105 speed tier + perfect coverage and NP is really good in the meta atm. Now that froslass is dead I look at it as the best special ghost in the tier, and with many balanced teams bringing slowbro or cresselia for a special wall, you're going to have a nice time. It also butfucks firefox. A- imo.

Emboar should drop Imo, I do think that the Band/mix set is really strong, but without sticky web support you are not going to outspeed many offensive polemon. B+

Edit: stupid phone posts before I get to finish

 

[Mew2]

Finally I'm going to nom Sharpedo for S Rank. It's definitely one of the most fearsome late-game sweepers in the tier, and if you're running an offensive team, you have to play carefully to keep certain mons at full health or save your Hitmonlee, which can cause you to make riskier plays.

I don't see Sharpedo in S when his best partner (Froslass) just got banned, not saying it can't be a threat without her but not as dangerous as he used to be.