Metagame NP: NU (beta): Welcome to the NU Age (Combusken Banned)

[Peef Rimgar]

As stupid as it may sound, I am not even opposed to a knock off suspect test. Reliable dark resists that are bulky and don't rely on their item are scarce in this tier, and we don't have megas either so nothing really switches in on a strong knock off.

E: @ dude above me: don't double post plz

Honestly the only incredible user of the move is Shiftry, with Sneasel and Fighting types getting honourable mentions. I couldn't see suspecting a move when only a select few things use it to effect other than making things not have items

 

[termi]

Honestly the only incredible user of the move is Shiftry, with Sneasel and Fighting types getting honourable mentions. I couldn't see suspecting a move when only a select few things use it to effect other than making things not have items

Knock off shifts the meta towards offense so obviously it is broken. User: kokoloko can confirm.

 

[TLCJR4LIFE]

Honestly the only incredible user of the move is Shiftry, with Sneasel and Fighting types getting honourable mentions. I couldn't see suspecting a move when only a select few things use it to effect other than making things not have items

Sawk, Hariyama, Scyther, Shiftry, Liepard, Sneasel. Gurdurr...hardly a few.

Especially when you consider fighting types effectively negate both of their two major follies which are ghosts and psychics with one move.

My problem with Knock Off is not that mainly that there is no real penalty for using it ever. Even strong resists don't like to lose their item, meaning you will never ever feel bad about clicking that button to use Knock Off, whereas in previous gens, something like Sawk would actually have to risk doing inconsequential damage to something with an Ice Punch and losing tempo...now a Knock Off is doing 30 percent and removing s crucial item.

 

[SHUCKLE MAN]

Sawk, Hariyama, Scyther, Shiftry, Liepard, Sneasel. Gurdurr...hardly a few.

Especially when you consider fighting types effectively negate both of their two major follies which are ghosts and psychics with one move.

My problem with Knock Off is not that mainly that there is no real penalty for using it ever. Even strong resists don't like to lose their item, meaning you will never ever feel bad about clicking that button to use Knock Off, whereas in previous gens, something like Sawk would actually have to risk doing inconsequential damage to something with an Ice Punch and losing tempo...now a Knock Off is doing 30 percent and removing s crucial item.

That's 7 Pokemon you listed, and some of them like Scyther, even with access to a move as amazing as Knock Off, aren't exactly top tier threats.

It is a very spammable move, but it depends on the Pokemon using it. Some Pokemon have the stats and type combo to spam the move easily (e.g. Bisharp in OU, or Crawdaunt when it was in UU). But most Pokemon can't spam the move like that. For example, a few people use Knock Off Uxie, but Uxie can't spam it like Shiftry does. If Uxie uses the move at the wrong time, the opponent can get an free switch-in (e.g. to a Pokemon that already has lost its item, or a bulky Pokemon that doesn't care so much about item loss), since the move does very little damage in that case.

 

[Rowan]

The fact that people continue to approach the subject of Sigil's movepool as if it can somehow change it's movepool in the midst of battle to be an all encompassing Swiss army knife of badassery IS vapid. It's running one set and only one set and with good scouting and prediction this is easy to surmise.

just saying, no-one's arguing that sigilyph can use 9 moves all in the same match. It's the fact that it has all these options which limits teambuilding, therefore you need to run multiple checks to different sigilyph counters. By the time you switch around a bit to try and scout, it might already be too late and sigilyph has weakened your checks enough to give its team a much more significant advantage.
Also, its not easy to scout for coverage, especially if it doesn't reveal CM or Roost. Sigilyph's unpredictability doesn't exist because it can run a dumb flame orb set, it exists because you never know what attacking moves it runs and therefore you have to switch around a lot to determine its coverage. On another note, forcing the opponent to switch around a lot just gives more opportunites to set up Calm Minds, or Roost.

I'm running a 4 attacks sigilyph, and whenever I get it into battle, I feel it is giving me a large advantage over my opponent. It easily forces my opponent to switch around and with minimal prediction it can easily act as a wallbreaker thats just incredibly simple to use.

 

[TLCJR4LIFE]

That's 7 Pokemon you listed, and some of them like Scyther, even with access to a move as amazing as Knock Off, aren't exactly top tier threats.

It is a very spammable move, but it depends on the Pokemon using it. Some Pokemon have the stats and type combo to spam the move easily (e.g. Bisharp in OU, or Crawdaunt when it was in UU). But most Pokemon can't spam the move like that. For example, a few people use Knock Off Uxie, but Uxie can't spam it like Shiftry does. If Uxie uses the move at the wrong time, the opponent can get an free switch-in (e.g. to a Pokemon that already has lost its item, or a bulky Pokemon that doesn't care so much about item loss), since the move does very little damage in that case.

In what world is 7 or more not a significant part of the meta game? Hell, other than the ever present Stealth Rock, what other "great" move is so profoundly distributed and used on such a wide array of threats.

Furthermore, I understated the distribution as it was off the top if my head, however on further review, Zangoose, Archeops and Seismitoad also use the move and that is just within the S tier, since your counter argument was simply to devalue a fairly good Pokemon in Scyther because it isn't a "top threat"

 

[Lost Soul]

So, I'm fairly new in regards to XY NU, but in my short experiences with NU this gen and having used and faced Sigilyph, most recently for FireMage's, Are Nu the Best?! vs Tomahawk, where Sigilyph accounted for 5 K.Os on my side and 3 K.Os on this side for a total of 8 k.os out of 9 during the whole game, I will have to say, I'm all for a Sigilyph ban, it has allowed a player like me with little to no knowledge of the NU metagame to just slap it on a team and rip through stuff far too easily, the fact that it doesn't have to worry about status, hazards or life orb whittling it down along with its speed and sp.attack turn it into something that the current NU meta just doesn't have a solid answer for currently and i find it a little concerning that i can slap it randomly on a team with little to no knowledge of the current XY NU meta game and be able to rip right through people far more experienced then i am in the current NU Meta XD

 

[Volbeatdown]

Yeah, I can agree with those who said that Knock Off is Spammy and Overpowered. Knock Off is given to so many pokes that are made more threatening simply because of receiving the move. In NU, almost all pokemon who can take the hit safely are very dependent on their item, so they won't appreciate losing it to Knock Off. Hell, I've been using a Pikachu with Knock Off and it brings quite the utility in being allowed to Freely Knock Off items and do decent amounts of damage. I am entirely in favor of a Suspect/Ban of the move, as it would provide a more balanced meta.

While We're at it, Sigilyph, Seismitoad, Stoutland and Shiftry can all leave the tier. :D

 

[jake]

@ above: what, you got something against pokes that start with S? (seismitoad and stoutland are both very absurd suggestions, since the former fits in well and the latter doesn't even do anything relevant)

also, for those of you who have sat on lil ninetales for "not having a usable niche" over pyroar and typhlosion, shut yo traps. i have a good one for you.

Ninetales @ Passho Berry
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Fire Blast
- Energy Ball
- Psyshock

NP ninetales is good because it gets psyshock, which decimates dragalge and hariyama (two premier responses to firespam) and can run passho berry so it's not owned by feraligatr after it boosts. it does need some support - SR support is a MUST, as it needs the extra damage to ensure an OHKO on bulky gatr at +2, and a 70% chance to ohko 252/0 dragalge. it also wants the chip damage for hariyama, who it cannot ohko after rocks sadly but can after a teensy bit more chip dmg. it also owns all of the rocks and waters with energy ball (defensive lanturn takes 60-70% from eball at +2).

cool set, if you want to try it out.

 

[ryan]

It has no counters, really? If you aren't using Substitute you will be OHKO'd by any STAB Sucker Puncher in the tier, and this hypothetical 9 move argument is vapid at best. Sigilyph enters the battle with 4 moves, normally three given how common Calm Mind is, the viability of other sets is irrelevant, many things have viable sets that aren't commonly used, they are called OO on a normal mon.

You won't be OHKO'd by any Sucker Punch in the tier though because it's very easy to play around. As a Sigilyph user facing a Sucker Punch user, you can comfortably switch out because you will never have to worry about taking hazard damage. As a Sucker Punch user facing a Sigilyph, you almost always have to click Sucker Punch because if you mispredict, you lose your best Sigilyph check. I think the only exception to this is if the Sigilyph is severely weakened and might use Roost as you use Sucker Punch because you can't afford to allow it to Roost. Predicting is all about risk vs. reward, and the risk is skewed towards the Sucker Punch user most of the time in these scenarios unless they also have another solid check waiting in the wings.

To Cherub's point, has every team not in the last year of NU been forced to have a reasonable switch in to Sawk? Sawk has never even been suspected let alone banned, yet it's prescence as the most powerful bander in NU as been undisputed across two generations now. If you aren't carrying something to check an S tier threat you deserve to lose and it has nothing to do with its brokenness.

This isn't a fair comparison. Sawk is almost always Choice-locked, which makes it much easier to play around by scouting with something bulky, a la Alomomola last gen which was 2HKO'd by Adamant Close Combat after Stealth Rock, but could come in and pivot out into a Fighting resist. You can also play a game of prediction against it because of its tendency to run Choice items. If it is running Life Orb, which is viable mind you, then it isn't as strong as Choice Band Sawk and is easier to check defensively.

Against Sigilyph, however, you can viably run Life Orb with incredible coverage and the power to hit things on both sides of the defensive spectrum. Sigilyph is far more threatening towards defensive and balanced teams for this reason. Yes, you do need to run answers to Sigilyph on any team. But this is much more difficult for the aforementioned reasons and the reason why I'm leaning more towards support a ban than opposing it.

If you are disenchanted with it because it is an incredible threat against defensive teams with its speed, power, setup ability and Magic Guard, this is fair, however I am strongly opposed to the IMO ridiculous notion that banning Sigilyph will somehow weaken offense and bring in the era of balanced. There are so many offensive threats I actually considered removing Shiftry on my team as there are other threats that are better against offensive teams which is most of the meta currently

I'm one of the people who said that balanced teams would be more viable without Sigilyph in the tier, and I stand by that. No, it won't bring in the age of balanced. There will always be Pokemon in this tier that give troubles to balanced teams. But this team archetype will absolutely be much more viable without Sigilyph around. Unlike stall teams, you can't afford to run multiple defensive answers to Sigilyph on balanced teams, which means that you almost always need to run offensive checks to Sigilyph as well. This is where Sigilyph makes the tier more offensive. If you're not running heavily defensive teams, you usually need one or two things that can outspeed Sigilyph and KO it or things with priority that can do the same.

I find that Sigilyph is simply too good at doing what it does. No, it's not going to 6-0 teams on a regular basis, but it doesn't need to do that in order to be too strong for the tier.

 

[Lord Alphose]

While we're at it, Sigilyph, Seismitoad, Stoutland and Shiftry can all leave the tier. :D

I can see Sigilyph leaving for obvious reasons. Super centralizing, like Gligar was to LC. and Seismitoad and Stoutland were addressed. But:

Shiftry is not a significant enough threat for it to actuallybe considered for removal, in my opinion. The reason lots of Pokemon get banned is because they are too centralizing, similar to Hollywood's last sentence above me. When Pokemon are good enough to where entire teams are being built with a single Pokemon in mind, that's when a Pokemon is considered a significant enough threat to ban it. However, Shiftry isn't even close to that level. Mediocre defenses leave it susceptible to most priority, be it Timburr's Mach Punch or Fletchinder's Acrobatics. Most sets lack a priority move, and the only move that it would run would be Sucker Punch, which Timburr resists anyways. Shiftry just doesn't have the same effect on the tier that would make it actually considerable in power. So please, no.

 

[TLCJR4LIFE]

You won't be OHKO'd by any Sucker Punch in the tier though because it's very easy to play around. As a Sigilyph user facing a Sucker Punch user, you can comfortably switch out because you will never have to worry about taking hazard damage. As a Sucker Punch user facing a Sigilyph, you almost always have to click Sucker Punch because if you mispredict, you lose your best Sigilyph check. I think the only exception to this is if the Sigilyph is severely weakened and might use Roost as you use Sucker Punch because you can't afford to allow it to Roost. Predicting is all about risk vs. reward, and the risk is skewed towards the Sucker Punch user most of the time in these scenarios unless they also have another solid check waiting in the wings.

This isn't a fair comparison. Sawk is almost always Choice-locked, which makes it much easier to play around by scouting with something bulky, a la Alomomola last gen which was 2HKO'd by Adamant Close Combat after Stealth Rock, but could come in and pivot out into a Fighting resist. You can also play a game of prediction against it because of its tendency to run Choice items. If it is running Life Orb, which is viable mind you, then it isn't as strong as Choice Band Sawk and is easier to check defensively.

Against Sigilyph, however, you can viably run Life Orb with incredible coverage and the power to hit things on both sides of the defensive spectrum. Sigilyph is far more threatening towards defensive and balanced teams for this reason. Yes, you do need to run answers to Sigilyph on any team. But this is much more difficult for the aforementioned reasons and the reason why I'm leaning more towards support a ban than opposing it.

I'm one of the people who said that balanced teams would be more viable without Sigilyph in the tier, and I stand by that. No, it won't bring in the age of balanced. There will always be Pokemon in this tier that give troubles to balanced teams. But this team archetype will absolutely be much more viable without Sigilyph around. Unlike stall teams, you can't afford to run multiple defensive answers to Sigilyph on balanced teams, which means that you almost always need to run offensive checks to Sigilyph as well. This is where Sigilyph makes the tier more offensive. If you're not running heavily defensive teams, you usually need one or two things that can outspeed Sigilyph and KO it or things with priority that can do the same.

I find that Sigilyph is simply too good at doing what it does. No, it's not going to 6-0 teams on a regular basis, but it doesn't need to do that in order to be too strong for the tier.

Good post. However if Sigilyph is gone(I should add Im not necessarily FIGHTING for it, I'm more hesistant than adamant) I would like to see Knock Off suspected as a move under the same premises of the promotion of tier diversity.

I think your post makes a lot of sense however I wanted to add the reason I brought up Knock Off is because forcing it out tends to at least prevent Sigilyph from sweeping consistently, it is very dangerous and will net kills and perhaps it was naive to judge it just on it merit as a sweeper alone and I believe the over-preparation of the ladder against Sigilyph also influenced my initial line of thinking.

 

[Volbeatdown]

@ above: what, you got something against pokes that start with S? (seismitoad and stoutland are both very absurd suggestions, since the former fits in well and the latter doesn't even do anything relevant)

LOL Yeah, just realized that they all start with S. But yes, Seismi and Stout were for completely personal reasons, just two pokemon that I HATE dealing with. Shiftry and Sigi however, need to go. Seriously though, I faced 4 teams IN A ROW while hovering around 1360 on the ladder that had the core of Hippopotas/SandSlash/Stoutland and it was HELL to deal with. Stoutland in particular(Its fire fang literally 2hkos escavalier d00d), so I always joke about how it has got to go. As for Seismitoad, I don't see it as broken, just bulky, and annoyingly so. Mostly because of how I switched in a Shiftry and this guy was running Focus Blast for goodness sake. It just annoys me, and I can never seem to predict exactly what they are running, because I'm not that good. I know it's not broken, but for some odd reason, I would love to see it go.

 

[tennisace]

Suspecting moves like Knock Off that don't have a luck-based component to them is a pretty dangerous path to go down imo. If you're having an issue with a specific user of Knock Off, that user should be suspected. However, I don't think any particular user of Knock Off is broken with or without the move.

 

[TLCJR4LIFE]

Suspecting moves like Knock Off that don't have a luck-based component to them is a pretty dangerous path to go down imo. If you're having an issue with a specific user of Knock Off, that user should be suspected. However, I don't think any particular user of Knock Off is broken with or without the move.

Dangerous in what manner exactly?

From my prior post, my problem with Knock Off is the incredible reach it has over the metagame, it is just factually on a disproportionate amount of the top threats in the metagame, moreso than any other move in the game right now.

It would be like if Gamefreak suddenly randomly increased the distribution of Extreme Speed by a massive amount and nearly everything in the tier was running it. Moves usually aren't broken by a single user which is why moves are rarely banned, however if one move is singlehandedly making a large number of pokemon significantly better and a large number of pokemon significantly worse than it is definitely at minimum "suspect".

 

[Raseri]

Hiya, we're not suspecting Knock Off right now, the current suspect is Sigilyph, so you are free to discuss whether or not it is broken, so discussing whether or not Knock Off needs to be suspected is irrelevant.

If you want to discuss Knock Off and its users, go ahead, but refrain from talking about whether or not it needs to be banned. The same applies to anything else people want suspected.

 

[Ununhexium]

Wait so is sigilyph a community suspect or council? Also, if it is community, when will it start?

 

[Akir]

Hello everyone. Lurker here deciding to stop lurking, so please bear with my developing etiquette.

With that out of the way, I have been going up and down the ladder with Sigilyph and I must admit that it's amazing just how good Sigilyph is. It is great glue for teams due to it's wide array of possible coverage and the ability to effectively counter stall almost single-handed. Add in that Sigilyph doesn't care about hazards, and you have an extremely reliable Pokemon that can be thrown on almost every team.

But the main reason I am making this post is because I feel like Sigilyph's effect on team optimization hasn't been stressed quite enough. The opportunity cost of dealing with Sigilyph is extremely high, so much so that some teams have to go with less effective team building just to make sure that Sigilyph is "countered". So not only does Sigilyph block stall from being effective, but it also obstructs offensive teams by forcing them to have one or even two answers to Sigilyph.

So, Sigilyph is bad for the growth of the metagame because it obstructs all types of teams to the point that those teams can't be as good as they could be because they MUST have an answer to Sigilyph at the cost of a possibly better use of a team slot.

 

[termi]

Yeah I just played vs Kavatika for Are NU the Best? and I can't stress enough how nothing in this tier comes even close to how threatening Sigilyph is. If you are not running a bulky Psychic type, Sigilyph is by far the scariest thing you see on team preview due to how it literally just lacks any good switchins. Not only does it lack good switchins though, it gets even worse due to the fact that it can actually run bulkier sets that allow it to tank hits it otherwise can't survive and set up a CM. It literally has no hard counters, uxie can switch in but can't do much to it but maybe paralyze it or Knock Off, although the first option is obstructed by Flame Orb sets and the second doesn't do much more than knock its item off because Uxie is piss weak and Sigilyph can just Roost any damage off.

Oh and also, it just beats stall. There is no questioning even, unless you decide to run something funky on your stall team that doesn't really add to your team synergy and is just there for beating Sigilyph, which is hardly the effect any Pokemon should have on any playstyle.

Please council just ban it, I've been keeping track and so far I coutned a grand total of 0 good arguments as to why we shouldn't ban it so give it the green light and kick that weird fuckin totem pole thing out of the tier kthx

 

[Cuhpcakes]

Hello everyone. Lurker here deciding to stop lurking, so please bear with my developing etiquette.

With that out of the way, I have been going up and down the ladder with Sigilyph and I must admit that it's amazing just how good Sigilyph is. It is great glue for teams due to it's wide array of possible coverage and the ability to effectively counter stall almost single-handed. Add in that Sigilyph doesn't care about hazards, and you have an extremely reliable Pokemon that can be thrown on almost every team.

But the main reason I am making this post is because I feel like Sigilyph's effect on team optimization hasn't been stressed quite enough. The opportunity cost of dealing with Sigilyph is extremely high, so much so that some teams have to go with less effective team building just to make sure that Sigilyph is "countered". So not only does Sigilyph block stall from being effective, but it also obstructs offensive teams by forcing them to have one or even two answers to Sigilyph.

So, Sigilyph is bad for the growth of the metagame because it obstructs all types of teams to the point that those teams can't be as good as they could be because they MUST have an answer to Sigilyph at the cost of a possibly better use of a team slot.

Not to mention people having to run dark types just to counter to it, the Sucker Punch spam is real.

Probopass and Spiritomb are decent enough switch ins against Sigilyph but yeah that thing is on a tier above the rest of nu.

Has anyone tried Gorebyss at all? Shell Smash Baton Pass with moderate bulk and Special Attack to sweep on its own isn't too shabby. But unlike Barbaracle who has an easier time sweeping imo, Gorebyss can actually Baton Pass those boosts into something to preferably take a resisted hit and sweep with ease.

How is Gorebyss?

 

[Bughouse]

So I thought I'd share a fun set I've been using against stupid Sigilyph: Psych Up Frost Breath Regice. Steal the boosts if playing against the Flame Orb Air Slash set, and then crit through the boosts. Or against other sets, just Frost Breath off the bat before Psyshock becomes too scary. GG BERD.

104+ SpA Regice Frost Breath vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Sigilyph on a critical hit: 288-342 (100.6 - 119.5%)
252 SpA Life Orb Sigilyph Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 152 Def Regice: 125-148 (34.3 - 40.6%)


Added benefit:
+2 252+ SpA Gorebyss Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Regice: 160-189 (43.9 - 51.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ SpA Omastar Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Regice: 160-190 (43.9 - 52.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Can use safely come in on Gorebyss or Omastar as they Shell Smash, Psych Up on the Surf, KO with Tbolt on next turn. If they don't have priority, they're in some trouble.

 

[Raseri]

Hello everyone, the first NU Rotating Council has been chosen. These are the people who will be participating in the Sigilyph vote. One thing I want to make clear is that this is a rotating council, none of these positions are permanent at all, and if a member goes inactive, they will be removed quickly. The requirements to make it onto the council are also more lax than they are in other tiers, as the objective is to have anyone who is qualified on board. So don't fret if you didn't make it this time, there is always room for more!

So, here is your first council!

Raseri
DTC
Zebraiken
Aladyyn
Assassin Rogue
Brawlfest
Hollywood
Jonater
Montsegur
NotHyunation
Punchshroom
Robert Alfons
scorpdestroyer
Soulgazer
tennisace


This is your council! I would appreciate it if all members of the council sent me a PM with your Sigilyph vote, along with a short blurb explaining why you voted that way. This thread can be used to persuade the council to vote, so even if you aren't voting, there are still many members who are undecided!

 

[ryan]

So I thought I'd share a fun set I've been using against stupid Sigilyph: Psych Up Frost Breath Regice. Steal the boosts if playing against the Flame Orb Air Slash set, and then crit through the boosts. Or against other sets, just Frost Breath off the bat before Psyshock becomes too scary. GG BERD.

104+ SpA Regice Frost Breath vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Sigilyph on a critical hit: 288-342 (100.6 - 119.5%)
252 SpA Life Orb Sigilyph Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 152 Def Regice: 125-148 (34.3 - 40.6%)


Added benefit:
+2 252+ SpA Gorebyss Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Regice: 160-189 (43.9 - 51.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ SpA Omastar Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Regice: 160-190 (43.9 - 52.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Can use safely come in on Gorebyss or Omastar as they Shell Smash, Psych Up on the Surf, KO with Tbolt on next turn. If they don't have priority, they're in some trouble.

This set is a classic. I know some people used it in BW NU to help handle Musharna, which could be found on practically every good team. The other cool part is that this checks like every Sigilyph at least reasonably well:

252 SpA Life Orb Sigilyph Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Regice: 144-172 (39.6 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Sigilyph Heat Wave vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Regice: 125-148 (34.4 - 40.7%) -- 53.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

edit: oh you calced this, still cool either way :P

And of course, you can steal Calm Mind Sigilyph's boosts.

It's not exactly the most consistent set, but thumbs up for reviving the coolest BW gimmick.

 

[Bughouse]

I legit didn't know that was a BW thing, but yeah that sounds like it must have worked pretty well when CM Mush was so common.

In XY NU I rarely find an opportunity to actually use Psych Up, but regardless Frost Breath is clutch. Of course Cryogonal can Frost Breath and is faster than Sigilyph, but I'd hate to use anything that can't actually switch in safely because it fears getting obliterated by even unboosted Psyshock.

 

[Punchshroom]

The fact that one of the supposed best Sigilyph checks in the tier takes upwards to 33-40% from Sigi's most common & spammable attacks (Psyshock and Heat Wave), is weak to Stealth Rock, and has no reliable recovery means that the odds (in the long run) are likely still in Sigilyph's favor.

Personally I've been using Sigilyph in RU in order to bump it up that way, but the ban does ensure Sigilyph won't be coming back down, so I'm still cool with that. Just a thought, but if Sigilyph does get bumped up to RU before we get to ban it (I expect an unanimous vote to get Sigi outta here), would it still be categorized as BL3 (or w/e the fuck BL at this point)?