Doubles Suicune

[Audiosurfer]

skeleton

Overview
########

• Often passed over in favor of other Water-types such as Rotom-W
• Great due to Water typing being very useful defensively in conjunction with its great defensive stats, allowing it to last on the battlefield for a while
• Also has unique moves that other Water-types don't possess such as Tailwind and Snarl
• Pure Water-typing leaves it weak to Electric and Grass type attacks, which can be a problem
• In addition its offenses are good but not great, so its damage output can be underwhelming

Defensive Speed Control
########
name: Defensive Speed Control
move 1: Tailwind
move 2: Scald
move 3: Ice Beam / Protect
move 4: Snarl / Protect
ability: Pressure
item: Leftovers / Sitrus Berry
evs: 232 HP / 84 Def / 112 SpA / 80 SDef
nature: Bold

Moves
========

• Scald is the main attack, Water STAB with great neutral coverage, and the 30% burn chance comes in hand at times. Also more accurate than Hydro Pump
• Ice Beam is to hit Grass and Dragon-types that resist Suicune's Water-type STAB
• Tailwind is useful to boost the speed of your allies in a pinch, and puts the opponent under a lot of pressure since you'll likely attack first
• Snarl cripples Special Attackers by continuously lowering their Special Attack.
• Protect is used to shield Suicune from damage, potentially dodging a KO, as well as being able to stall out opposing weather and field conditions, racking up Leftovers healing, scout for coverage, etc.

Set Details
========

• The EV spread allows Suicune to live through an unboosted Shaymin-S's Seed Flare and KO Landorus-T with Ice Beam, with the rest being put into Defense
• Sitrus Berry is generally used to give back a chunk of health in a pinch, potentially saving Suicune from being KOed
• Leftovers is also an option if you're expecting Suicune to be on the field for a long time
• Bold is the preferred nature for more physical bulk, and Snarl is already able to soften Special hits
• If you opt not to use Ice Beam, you can shift the Special Atttack EVs into Defense.

Usage Tips
========

• Using this as a bulky pivot and having it switch into resisted moves can be useful due to Suicune's amazing bulk.
• When you see your opponent has many threatening Pokemon that are faster than yours, Tailwind is a good way to turn the tables
• If you don't have much to damage a Pokemon with, using Scald to fish for a burn can be a decent idea
• Repeatedly using Snarl can be a good idea to neuter opposing Special Attackers and render them harmless after a few turns.

Team Options
========

• Pokemon such as Tyranitar and Landorus-T who appreciate Suicune's ability to switch into Water-type attacks.
• Pokemon such as Latios, Hydreigon, and Salamence who can handle Grass and Electric-types are useful teammates for Suicune.
• Pokemon such as Tyranitar, Genesect, Mega Heracross, and Garchomp would all appreciate Tailwind support since it makes them much more threatening
• Amoonguss is a good partner to redirect Electric-type attacks aimed at Suicune as well as since it can check Trick Room, which Suicune doesn't like dealing with as a Tailwind setter.
• Ground-type Pokémon such as Garchomp and Rhyperior make for good partners since they can handle Electric-type attacks that pose a problem to Suicune. Rhyperior especially makes a good partner since Lightningrod redirects all Electric-type attacks.

Offensive
########
name: Offensive
move 1: Hydro Pump / Scald
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Tailwind
move 4: Protect
ability: Pressure
item: Sitrus Berry
evs: 120 HP / 252 SpA / 136 Spe
nature: Modest / Timid

Moves
========

• Hydro Pump is the main STAB due to its power
• Scald is another option with Water STAB with great neutral coverage, and the 30% burn chance comes in hand at times.
• Ice Beam is to hit Grass and Dragon-types that resist Suicune's Water-type STAB
• Tailwind is useful to boost the speed of your allies in a pinch, and puts the opponent under a lot of pressure since you'll likely attack first
• Protect is used to shield Suicune from damage, potentially dodging a KO

Set Details
========

• The EV spread allows Suicune to outspeed 252 base 70s such as Bisharp and Breloom
• Sitrus Berry is generally used to give back a chunk of health in a pinch, potentially saving Suicune from being KOed
• Leftovers is also an option if you're expecting Suicune to be on the field for a long time
• Modest is for more power and beats Adamant Bisharp, while Timid loses some power but outspeeds Jolly Breloom.

Usage Tips
========

• Using this as a bulky pivot and having it switch into resisted moves can be useful
• When you see your opponent has many threatening Pokemon that are faster than yours, Tailwind is a good way to turn the tables
• If you don't have much to damage a Pokemon with, using Scald to fish for a burn can be a decent idea.

Team Options
========

• Pokemon such as Tyranitar and Landorus-T who appreciate Suicune's ability to switch into Water-type attacks make good partners.
• Pokemon such as Latios and Amoonguss who can handle Grass and Electric-types are useful teammates for Suicune. Amoonguss also has the benefit of checking Trick Room, which can be detrimental to Suicune due to its Tailwind, while Suicune can take on Fire-types for Amoonguss.
• Pokemon such as Tyranitar, Genesect, Mega Heracross, and Garchomp would all appreciate Tailwind support since it makes them much more threatening
• Pokemon such as Thundurus-T make for good partners since they can take down opposing bulky waters, which Suicune has no chance of touching on its own. Thundurus-T also appreciates Tailwind from Suicune.

Other Options
########

• Calm Mind
• ChestoRest
• Icy Wind
• Assault Vest
• Roar to prevent Trick Room from being set
• Wacan or Rindo Berry

Checks & Counters
########

• Amoonguss can redirect its moves, put it to sleep, hit it super effectively, and has Regenerator to shrug off the damage later.
• Ludicolo can easily switch into Suicune and strike with a Giga Drain
• Thundurus-T, Zapdos, and Rotom-W can strike it with a Thunderbolt. Rotom-W also resists both of the moves commonly carried by Suicune, while Thundurus-T has Taunt to shut down Suicune's support moves.
• Jellicent completely walls most Suicune, as it's immune to Scald and takes very little from Ice Beams. Gastrodon is also in this category. Suicune can use Snarl on them to render them useless offensively though.
• Abomasnow doesn't mind Water-type attacks or whatever coverage Suicune commonly carries, and it has Giga Drain or Wood Hammer to deal a huge amount of damage to Suicune.
• Since it doesn't fear a Scald burn, Guts Conkeldurr makes a great check to Suicune.
• Bisharp can mess up Suicune if it switches in on a predicted Snarl.
• All offensive answers need to be sure to watch for a Scald or Snarl, depending on their attacking spectrum

Overview
########

While Suicune faces competition from Water-types such as Rotom-W, it is an excellent Pokemon in its own right. Its great defensive typing in conjunction with its good bulk mean that it has no problem staying on the field for a long time. Suicune is also blessed with a unique movepool with moves that many other common Water-types lack, such as Tailwind and Snarl giving it extra utility and allowing it to support its team throughout a match. Sadly, its pure Water typing leaves Suicune weak to Grass- and Electric-type attacks, which can be a problem for it. Also, its base 90 Special Attack is none too high, so its damage output can be underwhelming at times. These weaknesses, however, are overshadowed by the unique strengths it possesses.

Defensive Speed Control
########
name: Defensive Speed Control
move 1: Tailwind
move 2: Scald
move 3: Ice Beam / Protect
move 4: Snarl / Protect
ability: Pressure
item: Leftovers / Sitrus Berry
evs: 232 HP / 84 Def /112 SpA / 80 SpD
nature: Bold

Moves
========

Tailwind gives the set its name, and is used to boost the Speed of Suicune's allies in a pinch, putting the opponent under a lot of pressure. It's also a good way to counteract an opposing team full of fast and powerful Pokemon. Scald is the main attack Suicune should be using as it receives a STAB boost, has great neutral coverage, and has a 30% burn chance making it a good default choice. Ice Beam is a coverage move to hit the Grass- and Dragon-types that resist Scald. Snarl should be used when the opponent has a threatening special attacker, as the Special Attack drops from Snarl will quickly neuter their offensive presence. Protect is used to shield Suicune from unneeded damage, potentially stopping it from being KOed. It's also useful to stall out opposing field conditions and rack up Leftovers recovery.

Set Details
========

The EV spread allows Suicune to live through an unboosted Shaymin-S's Seed Flare as well as OHKO Landorus-T with Ice Beam, with the remaining EVs being put into Defense. Bold is the preferred nature on this set, as Suicune has Snarl to soften special attacks. If you choose not to use Ice Beam, it's best to move the Special Attack EVs into Defense for increased survivability. Leftovers is the main option as Suicune will often be on the field for extended periods of time when supporting the team. Sitrus Berry is also an option to give a large chunk of health back in a pinch, which can help Suicune avoid being KOed.

Usage Tips
========

Using Suicune as a bulky pivot that can tank resisted moves is best due to Suicune's excellent bulk. It can even take some non-resisted hits thanks to its bulk and few weaknesses. If none of your attacking options are very damaging to the opponent, fishing for a burn with Scald can be a good option. Repeatedly using Snarl can be a good way to cripple opposing special attackers and render them harmless after a few hits. Be sure to watch out for Defiant users when doing this though, as Snarl will give them a +2 Attack boost. If Suicune isn't doing much on the field at a given time, it can be a good idea to switch it out for later, as it's able to set up Tailwind multiple times throughout a match thanks to its bulk.

Team Options
========

Pokemon that handle Grass- and Electric-type attacks such as Latios, Hydreigon, and Kyurem-B make for good partners. Pokemon such as Tyranitar, Genesect, Mega Heracross, and Garchomp all enjoy Suicune's Tailwind support as it makes them even more threatening. Amoonguss makes for a fantastic partner by redirecting Electric-type attacks from Suicune while also checking Trick Room, which can be problematic for Suicune as a Tailwind setter. Suicune can also check Fire-types for Amoonguss, further strengthening the pairing. Ground-types such as Garchomp and Rhyperior make for good partners to take the Electric-type attacks that can dent Suicune. Rhyperior is especially good at this role as its Lightning Rod ability redirects Electric-type attacks from Suicune.

Offensive
########
name: Offensive
move 1: Hydro Pump / Scald
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Tailwind
move 4: Protect
ability: Pressure
item: Sitrus Berry
evs: 28 HP / 252 SpA / 228 Spe
nature: Modest

Moves
========

Hydro Pump is used as the main STAB move for its power and excellent neutral coverage. However, if Hydro Pump's shaky accuracy needs to be avoided, Scald is another attacking option, albeit a less powerful one. Scald also comes with a 30% burn chance, which comes in handy at times. Ice Beam is used to hit the Grass- and Dragon-types that resist Suicune's Water-type attacks. Tailwind is a good way to give your team a large Speed boost, and can put a lot of pressure on the opponents as your Pokemon will likely be outspeeding them. Protect is used to avoid taking damage for a turn, which can even prevent Suicune from being KOed.

Set Details
========

The EV spread is used to give Suicune as much power as possible while outspeeding base 70 Speed Pokemon such as Bisharp and Breloom, with the rest being put into HP. Modest is the chosen nature to maximize Suicune's power. Sitrus Berry is typically used to help give a large chunk of health back at once. Mystic Water is another option if you want to augment Suicune's power.

Usage Tips
========

Thanks to Suicune's great defensive stats and typing, having it act as a bulky pivot and switch into resisted hits can work well. With an offensive set, Suicune can take advantage of its own Tailwind to pose a threat to the opponent. If your opponent has many threatening Pokemon that are faster than your own, then Tailwind is a good way to turn the tables on them. If none of your attacks do very much damage to an opponent, then fishing for Scald burns is a decent strategy.


Team Options
========

Pokemon that can handle Grass- and Electric-type attacks such as Latios, Hydreigon, and Kyurem-B make for good partners. Amoonguss is a nice partner as it can redirect Electric-type attacks from Suicune while also checking Trick Room, which can be problematic for Suicune as a setter and abuser of Tailwind. Suicune can also check the Fire-types that threaten Amoonguss. Pokemon such as Tyranitar, Genesect, and Mega Heracross all enjoy Suicune's Tailwind support as it makes them even more threatening, letting them overcome their Speed issues. Ground-types such as Garchomp and Rhyperior make for good partners to take the Electric-type attacks that can do heavy damage to Suicune. Rhyperior is especially good at this role since its Lightning Rod ability redirects Electric-type attacks from Suicune. Pokemon such as Thundurus-T, Zapdos, and Mega Venusaur make for good partners to take down the bulky Water-types that Suicune would have no hope of touching on its own. Thundurus-T is especially good as it enjoys the Tailwind support that Suicune provides.

Other Options
########

Calm Mind can be used to increase Suicune's offensive presence while making it difficult to KO, but setting up multiple boosts can be difficult and time-consuming. ChestoRest is an option instead of Protect and a Sitrus Berry to let Suicune fully heal itself when needed. Icy Wind is a good support move to help with speed control. Assault Vest can be used to grant Suicune more survivability through a boost to its Special Defense. It's even more helpful as both of Suicune's weaknesses are typically seen on the special attacking side. Roar is an option to phaze out an opposing Pokemon before they can set up Trick Room, but it is somewhat situational. Wacan or Rindo Berry are options to mitigate damage from powerful Electric- or Grass-type attacks, respectively.

Checks & Counters
########

**Defensive Pokemon**: Amoonguss can redirect all of Suicune's attacks, put it to sleep, hit it super effectively, and shrug off any potential damage with Regenerator. Jellicent completely walls most Suicune as it is immune to Water-type attacks and takes little from Ice Beam. Gastrodon also falls into this category, as it is able to redirect Water-type attacks. Both of them need to watch out for Snarl though, as it will quickly render them useless offensively.

**Offensive Typing Advantage**: Abomasnow, Mega Venusaur, and Ludicolo can both easily tank Suicune's moves and strike back with a powerful Grass-type attack. Life Orb Shaymin-S can OHKO Suicune with Seed Flare, but must watch out for Ice Beam. Thundurus-T, Thundurus, Zapdos, and Rotom-W can all nail Suicune with a Thunderbolt. Rotom-W also resists both of Suicune's commonly carried moves, while Thundurus typically carries Taunt, which shuts down Suicune's support moves. Due to its great bulk and the fact that it has nothing to fear from a burn, Guts Conkeldurr makes a great check to defensive Suicune. Bisharp can also mess up Suicune if it can switch in on a predicted Snarl. All offensive answers must be sure to watch out for a Scald or Snarl, though, depending on their attacking spectrum.

**Speed Control**: Common Trick Room setters such as Cresselia make for good checks as Trick Room can turn Suicune's Tailwind into a serious disadvantage, making Suicune and its allies move last under Trick Room for several turns. Paralysis from users such as Thundurus can cripple Suicune and its partners, rendering them unable to take advantage of Tailwind.

**Utility Moves**: Pokemon with Taunt, such as Thundurus and Sableye, can prevent Suicune from setting up Tailwind when needed, reducing its ability to support its team.

 

[Stratos]

scaldsnarl suicune is literally hitler and should be the main set with scald, snarl, tailwind, and protect | ice beam imo, none of these other slashes are necessary. also bulkier than 252 spa, lolk gave me this good spread

23:01 Lolk: Suicune @ Leftovers
23:01 Lolk: Ability: Pressure
23:01 Lolk: EVs: 232 HP / 80 SDef / 112 SAtk / 84 Def
23:01 Lolk: Bold Nature
23:01 Lolk: - Tailwind
23:01 Lolk: - Scald
23:01 Lolk: - Ice Beam
23:01 Lolk: - Snarl
23:01 Lolk: lives modest skymin's seed flare
23:02 Lolk: KO's landoge

obviously the 112 SpA is negotiable if ur not running ice beam but ye

 

[Audiosurfer]

ok done Pwnemon

 

[Stratos]

team options: something that can take a +2 bisharp in case you goof is a good idea
usage tips: use it to spam atk and spa lower moves so your opponent cant do shit
checks/counters: strong physical attackers are your best bet, if you can get them in without being burned (mawile, cube)
checks/counters: bisharp if u switch it in on a snarl is funtimes
checks/counters: fast special elec/grass attackers like skymin, zapdos, thundurus but if suicune has tailwind up he can snarl first and soften the blow
oo: icy wind, its outclassed by tw
oo: reflect
team options: generally bulky pokemon like rotom-h because having two bulky pokemon and getting constantly nailed with burns and special attack drops is literally hitler

 

[Lolk]

Overview:

• mention its great support movepool.

Set:

• Check out Pocket's thread about set names. Utility is too broad. He put in the thread something like "defensive speed control" but i also agree with pwnemon that Hitler is probably the most appropriate name. If you are worried that is too politically incorrect, though, than just come up with something more specific.
• I would also put Tailwind first, because that is the main reason to use Suicune.
• I would also slash protect behind both ice beam and snarl as well, cause it can live without either.
• Also my evs on irc are out of order. hp/def/spa/spd
• I have also found that Suicune is a bulky mofo that almost always lives four turns, thanks to its attack control, making Leftovers the most reliable item even without protect. I would slash it before sitrus, or even take sitrus out.

Moves:

• also mention that protect stalls field conditions, scouts for coverage, and messes up offensive strategies.
• note that snarl hits through Substitute, making it a fantastic way to check Subtran and the like

Set Details:

• title it set details :O
• Mention Bold because Suicune makes a better check to Talonflame, Landoge, etc. than it does to special attackers. Plus, snarl is more reliable at softening the blow than Scald's burn chance.
• also note that without ice beam, the SpA evs are easier to lose and invest more in bulk.

Team Options:

• You need more partners that appreciate Tailwind. Good examples are Mega Heracross, Mega Kangaskhan, and Bisharp all love it.
• Amoonguss can redirect Grass- and Electric-type attacks aimed at it easily

Other Options:

• take out snarl since it is in the set.
• Wacan and Rindo Berry allow Suicune to set up Tailwind against Electric- and Grass-type threats.

Checks and Counters:

• Mention that all offensive counters must be careful not to switch in on a Scald or Snarl, depending on whether they attack physically or specially, respectively.
• Because it doesn't mind switching in on Scald, Guts attackers such as Conkeldurr make a great check to Suicune.
• Suicune can now snarl Jellicent and Gastrodon, leaving them near useless.
• Mention that Bisharp will wreck if it switches into a Snarl.
• Mention more Taunt users.

 

[Speedholes]

If we're using leftovers as the primary slash, is there a reason not to modify the spread to hit a leftovers number? In that case it would be:

240 HP / 80 Def / 112 SpA / 76 SpD

Still survives Seed Flare from Skymin, only now you have 401 HP for optimal recovery.

 

[Darkmalice]

252+ SpA Shaymin-S Seed Flare vs. 232 HP / 80 SpD Suicune: 338-398 (84.7 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin-S Seed Flare vs. 232 HP / 80 SpD Suicune: 398-471 (99.7 - 118%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

You need to specify that the EV spread is for a non-item boosted Seed Flare - it is Skymin's most popular item choice, and will almost always OHKO even without a +nature.

Taken from the Feb stats:
Items | | Life Orb 42.139% | | Leftovers 15.639% | | Focus Sash 11.363% | | Wide Lens 5.986% | | Lum Berry 5.700% | | Sitrus Berry 5.010% | | Wise Glasses 2.941% | | Razor Fang 2.088% | | Yache Berry 1.840% | | Choice Specs 1.667% | | Nothing 1.540% | | Other 4.089%

 

[Audiosurfer]

will do darkmalice. as for the spread lefties isnt the primary slash so i'll leave it, but if qc changes it to make lefties primary, ill edit

 

[Lolk]

Overview:

• mention its great support movepool.

Set:

• Check out Pocket's thread about set names. Utility is too broad. He put in the thread something like "defensive speed control" but i also agree with pwnemon that Hitler is probably the most appropriate name. If you are worried that is too politically incorrect, though, than just come up with something more specific.
• I would also put Tailwind first, because that is the main reason to use Suicune.
• I would also slash protect behind both ice beam and snarl as well, cause it can live without either.
• Also my evs on irc are out of order. hp/def/spa/spd
• I have also found that Suicune is a bulky mofo that almost always lives four turns, thanks to its attack control, making Leftovers the most reliable item even without protect. I would slash it before sitrus, or even take sitrus out.

Moves:

• also mention that protect stalls field conditions, scouts for coverage, and messes up offensive strategies.
• note that snarl hits through Substitute, making it a fantastic way to check Subtran and the like

Set Details:

• title it set details :O
• Mention Bold because Suicune makes a better check to Talonflame, Landoge, etc. than it does to special attackers. Plus, snarl is more reliable at softening the blow than Scald's burn chance.
• also note that without ice beam, the SpA evs are easier to lose and invest more in bulk.

Team Options:

• You need more partners that appreciate Tailwind. Good examples are Mega Heracross, Mega Kangaskhan, and Bisharp all love it.
• Amoonguss can redirect Grass- and Electric-type attacks aimed at it easily

Other Options:

• take out snarl since it is in the set.
• Wacan and Rindo Berry allow Suicune to set up Tailwind against Electric- and Grass-type threats.

Checks and Counters:

• Mention that all offensive counters must be careful not to switch in on a Scald or Snarl, depending on whether they attack physically or specially, respectively.
• Because it doesn't mind switching in on Scald, Guts attackers such as Conkeldurr make a great check to Suicune.
• Suicune can now snarl Jellicent and Gastrodon, leaving them near useless.
• Mention that Bisharp will wreck if it switches into a Snarl.
• Mention more Taunt users.

 

[Audiosurfer]

ok added offensive and made Lolk's changes

 

[Lolk]

put tailwind first on the first set and QC 1/3

 

[Audiosurfer]

put tailwind first on the first set and QC 1/3

ok implemented

 

[Mizuhime]

Usage Tips:
Stress how bulky Suicune is. Make sure people don't under estimate it's bulk. Also Snarl goes threw sub now because of new mechanics, but that's very minor.

team options:
you can also mention Pokemon like Hydreigon, Salamence, and Latias that can dael with Grass- and Electric type attacks for Suicune. All of which can also provide tailwind support for the team.

Ground-type's in general make for good partners. Rhyperior can even go as far as redirecting Electric-type attacks with Lightning Rod.

Amoonguss can redirect attacks for Suicune and help with TR, something a lot of Tailwind teams don't like to play against

cc's:
Thundurus-t hits way harder than Thundurus-i so please drop that a mention.

 

[Audiosurfer]

Usage Tips:
Stress how bulky Suicune is. Make sure people don't under estimate it's bulk. Also Snarl goes threw sub now because of new mechanics, but that's very minor.

team options:
you can also mention Pokemon like Hydreigon, Salamence, and Latias that can dael with Grass- and Electric type attacks for Suicune. All of which can also provide tailwind support for the team.

Ground-type's in general make for good partners. Rhyperior can even go as far as redirecting Electric-type attacks with Lightning Rod.

Amoonguss can redirect attacks for Suicune and help with TR, something a lot of Tailwind teams don't like to play against

cc's:
Thundurus-t hits way harder than Thundurus-i so please drop that a mention.

done

 

[BLOOD TOTEM]

Looks pretty good so far

• evs: 232 HP / / 84 Def /112 SAtk / 80 SDef <-- two slashes after tha HP, pls fix
• Mega Heracross has good synergy with Suicune and appreciates the speed boost from TWind
• Chesto Rest in OO

All I'm seeing for now, if you can try to fatten up the team options for set two =]

 

[Audiosurfer]

ok BLOOD TOTEM look now

 

[Darkmalice]

Add Assault Vest to OO. It's helpful considering that both Suicune's resists and weaknesses come on the special side, so it lets Suicune abuse its typing for defensive coverage more easily whilst also shielding it against its weak points, most notably letting it survive LO Shaymin-S' Seed Flare. It does have enough moves to make it work too - choose out of Hydro Pump, Scald, Ice Beam, Icy Wind, and Snarl

 

[Audiosurfer]

Add Assault Vest to OO. It's helpful considering that both Suicune's resists and weaknesses come on the special side, so it lets Suicune abuse its typing for defensive coverage more easily whilst also shielding it against its weak points, most notably letting it survive LO Shaymin-S' Seed Flare. It does have enough moves to make it work too - choose out of Hydro Pump, Scald, Ice Beam, Icy Wind, and Snarl

Done

 

[BLOOD TOTEM]

Looks good to me.

QC 2/3

 

[AuraRayquaza]

I dont know about this but i would suggest an alternate spread of 252 hp / 172 satk / 84 def modest nature. More defensive bulk to stand up to lando t, terrak etc and enough spatk to ohko 88/4 lando t with h pump, what do other people think about this? Also, im not sure about what set this would go if viable enough

EDIT: just realised ice beam.does 100.5% to 4/0 chomp with ice beam. With 172+ spatk. Offensive set maybe?

 

[Audiosurfer]

ok this is written. also, i changed the offensive ev spread and mentioned the old one in set details. also mentioned mystic water in the set details of that set instead of leftovers. both changes made more sense to me than the old ones though (the new ev spread on offensive does the same thing as the old one, just with modest > timid and slightly less bulk).

 

[Darkmalice]

While Suicune is often passed over in favor of Water-types such as Rotom-W, it is still a fine Pokemon in its own right. Its great defensive typing in conjunction with its high Defensive stats mean that it has no problem staying on the field for a long time. Suicune is also blessed with a unique movepool not seen in other common Water-types, with moves such as Tailwind and Snarl giving it extra utility. Sadly, pure Water-typing leaves Suicune weak to Grass- and Electric-type attacks, which can be a problem for it. Also, its base 90 Special Attack is none too high, so its damage output can be underwhelming at times.

The Overview seems to undersell Suicune's ability, ending on a bad note and starting off with Suicune being passed over in favour of other Water-types. In reality it's a good Pokemon, probably going to be ranked B+ on the viability list. I would focus more on Suicune supports the team through Tailwind and sometimes Snarl too by virtue of its giant bulk and good typing. It's not really passed over by other Water-types as it functions differently, I would rephrase it to osmehting more like that whilst it has competition from Rotom-W who has better typing and WoW, and Gyarados who has Intimidate, Suicune differentiates itself with better bulk, Tailwind, and Snarl. It can also utilise Tailwind itself decently, despite it's average base 90 Special Attack, with an offensive set.


I like the new EV spread for the offensive spread. In fact, I would scrap the AC mention of the other spread. First off, it wastes stats: Modest nature 128 HP / 152 SpA / 228 Spe achieves the same SpA and Spe but has more HP EVs. Secondly, offensive power is the focal point of the spread, if you want bulk, use the first set. You could make a mention of moving more SpA EVs into HP in this set for more bulk, but I don't feel it's needed.



Team options (both sets)

Pokemon such as Tyranitar and Landorus-T appreciate Suicune's ability to switch into Water-type attacks.

This was mentioned in both sets, and I'm kinda iffy on this to the point of thinking it should be removed. Whilst Suicune can switch into Water-types, Water-type attacks are pretty much only utilised on Water-type Pokemon, and Suicune fairs poorly against some commonly used Water-types (Rotom-W, Ludicolo) and isn't a check to the others (Gyarados sets up on it soyou rely on Scald burn, Keldeo has Secret Sword whilst you just fish for burns). Good answers for switch-ins to Water-types would actually be the Pokemon you mentioned in the next sentence - Latios, Kyurem-B, and Hydreigon. I would be content with simply what is mentioned in Usage tips - using Suicune as a bulky pivot that can tank-resisted moves.

On the topic of Usage tips in the first set, you can add that it can also take some non-resisted attacks due to its excellent bulk and few weaknesses. I would also mention a tip about using Tailwind, it is its best move after all. You could also mention switching out Suicune if it can't do something useful in addition to fishing for a Scald burn, saving Suicune for later in the match to reuse Tailwind. Due to its bulk, it cann set up Tailwind more than once in a battle.

Your second Team Options is very identical to the first with three exceptions. I would focus
-Suicune can also check Fire-types for Amoonguss, further strengthening the pairing. This can be mentioined in the first set too
-Ground-types such as Garchomp and Rhyperior make for good partners to take the Electric-type attacks that can dent Suicune. Rhyperior is especially good at this role since its Lightningrod ability redirects Electric-type attacks from Suicune. This can also be mentioined in the seocnd set

So the first and second set share most teammates, but you could mention this in the second set and so list them without using as much detail aka just glimpsing over the old teammates instead of repeating everything word to word, making reading it quicker

The 3rd point is unique to the second set - the mention of bulky waters walling Suicune, which is good. I would also add Zapdos and Mega Venasaur, as the latter can also make use of Tailwind and the former can serve as a secondary Tailwind user for the team (and Suicune checks Ground-types like Lando-T and Garhomp for Zapdos).


Checks and counters
When mentioning Gastrodon, also mention that it redirects Water-types attacks with Storm Drain.

Can add Mega Ven to Abomasnow and Ludicolo under offensive advantage. Give a separate mention to LO Shaymin-S as it OHKOes, but it must avoid Ice Beam.

You mention Thundurus-T but not Thundurus-I. Both deserve a mention. Thundurus-T rarely runs Taunt, so I would mention Thundurus-I isntead when mentioning Taunt

Mention Thunder Wave under Speed control, as paralysis' speed drop is more signficiant than the speed benefit of Tailwind and it's permanent. Thundurus-I is a notable users as it hits Suicune super-effectively

 

[Audiosurfer]

The Overview seems to undersell Suicune's ability, ending on a bad note and starting off with Suicune being passed over in favour of other Water-types. In reality it's a good Pokemon, probably going to be ranked B+ on the viability list. I would focus more on Suicune supports the team through Tailwind and sometimes Snarl too by virtue of its giant bulk and good typing. It's not really passed over by other Water-types as it functions differently, I would rephrase it to osmehting more like that whilst it has competition from Rotom-W who has better typing and WoW, and Gyarados who has Intimidate, Suicune differentiates itself with better bulk, Tailwind, and Snarl. It can also utilise Tailwind itself decently, despite it's average base 90 Special Attack, with an offensive set.


I like the new EV spread for the offensive spread. In fact, I would scrap the AC mention of the other spread. First off, it wastes stats: Modest nature 128 HP / 152 SpA / 228 Spe achieves the same SpA and Spe but has more HP EVs. Secondly, offensive power is the focal point of the spread, if you want bulk, use the first set. You could make a mention of moving more SpA EVs into HP in this set for more bulk, but I don't feel it's needed.



Team options (both sets)



This was mentioned in both sets, and I'm kinda iffy on this to the point of thinking it should be removed. Whilst Suicune can switch into Water-types, Water-type attacks are pretty much only utilised on Water-type Pokemon, and Suicune fairs poorly against some commonly used Water-types (Rotom-W, Ludicolo) and isn't a check to the others (Gyarados sets up on it soyou rely on Scald burn, Keldeo has Secret Sword whilst you just fish for burns). Good answers for switch-ins to Water-types would actually be the Pokemon you mentioned in the next sentence - Latios, Kyurem-B, and Hydreigon. I would be content with simply what is mentioned in Usage tips - using Suicune as a bulky pivot that can tank-resisted moves.

On the topic of Usage tips in the first set, you can add that it can also take some non-resisted attacks due to its excellent bulk and few weaknesses. I would also mention a tip about using Tailwind, it is its best move after all. You could also mention switching out Suicune if it can't do something useful in addition to fishing for a Scald burn, saving Suicune for later in the match to reuse Tailwind. Due to its bulk, it cann set up Tailwind more than once in a battle.

Your second Team Options is very identical to the first with three exceptions. I would focus
-Suicune can also check Fire-types for Amoonguss, further strengthening the pairing. This can be mentioined in the first set too
-Ground-types such as Garchomp and Rhyperior make for good partners to take the Electric-type attacks that can dent Suicune. Rhyperior is especially good at this role since its Lightningrod ability redirects Electric-type attacks from Suicune. This can also be mentioined in the seocnd set

So the first and second set share most teammates, but you could mention this in the second set and so list them without using as much detail aka just glimpsing over the old teammates instead of repeating everything word to word, making reading it quicker

The 3rd point is unique to the second set - the mention of bulky waters walling Suicune, which is good. I would also add Zapdos and Mega Venasaur, as the latter can also make use of Tailwind and the former can serve as a secondary Tailwind user for the team (and Suicune checks Ground-types like Lando-T and Garhomp for Zapdos).


Checks and counters
When mentioning Gastrodon, also mention that it redirects Water-types attacks with Storm Drain.

Can add Mega Ven to Abomasnow and Ludicolo under offensive advantage. Give a separate mention to LO Shaymin-S as it OHKOes, but it must avoid Ice Beam.

You mention Thundurus-T but not Thundurus-I. Both deserve a mention. Thundurus-T rarely runs Taunt, so I would mention Thundurus-I isntead when mentioning Taunt

Mention Thunder Wave under Speed control, as paralysis' speed drop is more signficiant than the speed benefit of Tailwind and it's permanent. Thundurus-I is a notable users as it hits Suicune super-effectively

did everythin except the shortenin of 2nd team options. while they're the same from each set people might not know that the teammates would be similar, so the info could be helpful. also some peole might just look at the one set so it's nice to have the info for both. if people don't need the info they can always skim it anyways

 

[Darkmalice]

I like the new Overview

In Checks and Counters

Since it has nothing to fear from a burn, Guts Conkeldurr makes a great check to Suicune

Could add a note that Conkeldurr doesn't really fear anything from Suicune due to its bulk letting it tank hits comfortably, especially the Assualt vest set.

Only the offensive set can 2HKO Conkeldurr, only with Hydro Pump, and only Assault Vest Conkeldurr.

If you're going to mention Whismicott as a user of Taunt, mention that it gets 2HKOed by Ice Beam. Taunt Keldeo can be added too, and it fears nothing from Suicune. In a 1v1 between the two, an early Scald burn can make a big difference as Keldeo only 4HKOs bulky Suicune but it's situational and great otherwise

Could also add a mention that Whimsicott and Keldeo don't usually run Taunt, so it can catch your opponent by surprise. (They usually opt for Encore and Quick Guard instead respectively).


After the changes:

QC 3/3

 

[Audiosurfer]

I like the new Overview

In Checks and Counters



Could add a note that Conkeldurr doesn't really fear anything from Suicune due to its bulk letting it tank hits comfortably, especially the Assualt vest set.

Only the offensive set can 2HKO Conkeldurr, only with Hydro Pump, and only Assault Vest Conkeldurr.

If you're going to mention Whismicott as a user of Taunt, mention that it gets 2HKOed by Ice Beam. Taunt Keldeo can be added too, and it fears nothing from Suicune. In a 1v1 between the two, an early Scald burn can make a big difference as Keldeo only 4HKOs bulky Suicune but it's situational and great otherwise

Could also add a mention that Whimsicott and Keldeo don't usually run Taunt, so it can catch your opponent by surprise. (They usually opt for Encore and Quick Guard instead respectively).


After the changes:

QC 3/3

ok, i changed the sentence on conk to mention its bulk and specify that it checks defensive cune. also i just opted to use thundurus as the taunt example since it's a v common taunter