Data ASB Feedback & Game Issues Thread - Mk III

[Frosty]

Well there is Smogon's mentorship program and afaik only pwnemon has "asb" listed as content area. We could always try to get one or two other mentors on (dunno how that goes) and then mention that "hey we have mentors pester them" somewhere.

3 people can probably handle the demand as is. Even if there is no demand, it won't hurt for the mentors to be there just in case.

Also tagging Birkal because we talking about mentors haha.

 

[Elevator Music]

fwiw i would be willing to help with or run a mentoring program

 

[ff7hero]

I wanted to second Fighterman's opinion that a mentorship program would have been helpful to me as I was starting out.

 

[Birkal]

ASB is more than welcome to stack some mentors into the program. That being said, you generally need a badge to be an official mentor. It might be more advantageous to run something in house so anyone can achieve ASB Mentor status without needing to export work elsewhere to get a badge. That's a lot of red tape. Like Elevator Music, I'd be interested in running / helping with being a mentor as well. I basically raised Redew and would feel comfortable doing it again.

 

[Flamestrike]

I'd be more than willing to help out with mentoring as well.

 

[Avnomke]

I'd be willing to help out with ref mentoring, since I do a lot of reffing. Not sure how much help I would be with battling mentoring.

 

[Frosty]

Also interested in mentoring, mainly in battling.

 

[S0L1D G0LD]

I could mentor battling or reffing, if it's needed.

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

I want this in house, it's a natural fit. Elevator Music do you want to take lead with this and have Birkal as your second-in-command/co-leader/whatever

 

[akela]

Ref mentoring would pretty much be the referee training program (which is in development). Don't really know why we would need 2 separate systems to help people become accustomed with reffing.

 

[Engineer Pikachu]

unrelated

Magic Guard:

This Pokemon is infused with a powerful psycho-electric energy that makes it immune to damage from Spikes, Stealth Rock, Hail, Sandstorm, Leech Seed, Poisoning, Burn, and Partial Trapping moves. It can still attack itself in confusion, but will not take any damage from it. Additionally, the energy protects the Pokemon from its own reckless recoil attacks. Toxic still increases in damage each round, although if Magic Guard is in effect the Pokemon will not suffer any damage. Life Orb recoil is negated.

The wielder does not take damage except direct damage from attacks, damage from Pain Split, or self-damage from confusion, Belly Drum, Curse, Substitute, and Struggle. Magic Guard does not prevent effects that cause the user to faint, such as Healing Wish, Perish Song, or Memento.

The only difference between the two descriptions here is whether damage from hitting self in confusion is factored blocked by Magic Guard. Given that (1) all other self-damage is not blocked, both in ASB and in-cartridge, (2) cartridge precedent says confusion damage is not blocked, and (3) nobody I have asked can come up with a reason why the statement rendering Magic Guard Pokemon immune to confusion damage is there, can we remove that?

 

[Gerard]

A minor proposal but Leftovers is pretty much useless, even pokemon with the ability Gluttony will use any other item instead. I propose we boost the Hp recovery to 2 (Gluttony can raise it to 3) to make it comparable to similar defensive items such as Focus Band/Sash (which block 2 dmg (likely 3 since SE) per action). There aren't many defensive items when compared to their offensive variants so I think this is a reasonable boost

 

[Avnomke]

Ref mentoring would pretty much be the referee training program (which is in development). Don't really know why we would need 2 separate systems to help people become accustomed with reffing.

I was thinking that the ref training would be part of the mentoring system, since they are very similar in concept.

 

[Elevator Music]

I want this in house, it's a natural fit. Elevator Music do you want to take lead with this and have Birkal as your second-in-command/co-leader/whatever

Sure, sounds good!

 

[Tortferngatr]

A minor proposal but Leftovers is pretty much useless, even pokemon with the ability Gluttony will use any other item instead. I propose we boost the Hp recovery to 2 (Gluttony can raise it to 3) to make it comparable to similar defensive items such as Focus Band/Sash (which block 2 dmg (likely 3 since SE) per action). There aren't many defensive items when compared to their offensive variants so I think this is a reasonable boost

Hmm.

In a similar vein, what about making Assault Vest allow for *one* status action per round (Chills included) instead of no status actions besides Chills?

 

[Frosty]

Mentoring could be one step before ref training. I'd assume we want people to be already somewhat familiar with ASB and integrated before they take on the ref training.

As for Leftovers, Focus Sash/Band work only when the opponent attacks and only 50% of the time (51-100%hp and 0-49%hp), whereas Leftovers work every turn non stop. If you boost it to 2hp I feel it would outclass Sash and Band entirely. Personally I prefer 1.5 and 3.

Although, to be fair, Sash and Band (especially Band) are worse than the offensive items (most signature items, type-specific items, expert belt etc) so maybe boosting all defensive items may be something to be looked into.

 

[Flamestrike]

Yeah I was thinking the same thing as Frosty re: Leftovers and Focus Band/Sash. Buffing Leftovers to 2/3 means it more or less completely outclasses the Focus items, but at the same time leaving it where it is makes it nigh-useless for anything that isn't a Gluttony mon. I feel like the defensive items could use a bit of a buff in general compared to the offensive items, but I haven't been around for a while so idk what balance is like right now.

As for the mentoring, yeah we need to make a distinction here. I feel like the mentoring should be more of a "this is how you ASB" type thing. What mons and natures are good, how to battle, how to join #capasb, so on and so forth. Once a player is comfortable with ASB as a whole and no longer needs a mentor, THEN they can enter the ref training program. I think keeping them separate works best overall. Need to walk before you can run and such.

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

Vetoing Assault Vest, careful with buff culture ideas

Wrt mentoring/ref training distinction I threw a few lines akela that someone can pull out of irc logs that illustrate how I see the division

 

[Psyco_Josho]

The NDA description of Justified seems to make an allusion to self-targeting, which had an end a while back:

This Pokemon's body reacts to dark energy, invigorating its passions. When hit by a Dark-type move, the Pokemon's attack will increase one (1) stage. A boost gained this way by another Pokemon's attack will be maintained at the end of each round.

 

[SimonSays]

In-game, Sweet Scent now lowers Evasion by 2 stages. Not sure if it was decided to keep at the current levels or that just no one noticed..?

 

[Its_A_Random]

The NDA description of Justified seems to make an allusion to self-targeting, which had an end a while back:

Technically there are a few self-targeting Dark-type moves like Snatch and Hone Claws if you want to be really pedantic but I will look into clarifying this.

In-game, Sweet Scent now lowers Evasion by 2 stages. Not sure if it was decided to keep at the current levels or that just no one noticed..?

I went ahead and updated this. It is not as if Sweet Scent is game-breaking or something.

Also guys if there is a simple NDA error and there are mods around on IRC, please use IRC as opposed to filling up this thread with trivial errors like this. That or even better, use the comments function on the NDA on the cell in question.

 

[ZhengTann]

Regarding Leftovers: This is going to be a 3-way "I want it / I don't want it / I don't care about it" discussion, and personally I'm in the third camp (okay I admit generic numerical buffs are boring) so we have 2 comments, 2 likes, maybe we can throw it up? If another Council member could do this then you have my thanks :P

Also I'm here to propose something about the Ability Stall:

This Pokemon has a watchful eye and immense patience. It can be ordered to attack last on any action regardless of ordinary attack priority. If an opponent orders their Pokemon to attack after the user of Stall, that attack will fail. Against another user of Stall, the trainer who issues attacks first has precedence and the opponent's attack will fail.

Note the highlighted part. First of all, we lack and clarification to the mechanic - does Stall grant -8 priority? Second, even if we do clarify it that way, Stall is still an unrivaled mechanic, and there's been allegations that it is imbalanced since the creation of the original DAT. I'd like to bring it up for Discussion, please like if you agree.

 

[Frosty]

I never saw stall as something imbalanced in the slightest, but hey, maybe I am the minority.

But I am here to bring up another issue: Pain Split. While Pain Split isn't as bad as Endeavor, a 50hp spread move is still ridiculous. I would link battles where it changed games to no end, but I have little time. But I feel everybody already saw how a sure victory becomes a tied game thanks to two pain splits and around 55EN. A fair price to pay for a fucking 100hp spread TBH.

Can we please lower the cap please? Or/and make it cost more?

 

[Engineer Pikachu]

Stall: I'm not sure what clarification is needed. It very clearly says "attack last ... regardless of ordinary attack priority;" that simply means it will go at the end of the action, after every other Pokemon has acted. We don't need to give Stall a priority number...?

 

[Geodude6]

Leftovers: I support this. As it stands now, Leftovers is really underpowered and desperately needs a buff. Contrast the competitive metagame, where, next to Life Orb and Choice items, Leftovers is one of the most used items and is very powerful due to its regenerative rate being multiplicative rather than flat.

Stall: Echoing Frosty; not really sure why this was brought up.