I completely agree with this, Yanmega is one of the sole reasons I'm running Specially Defensive Registeel on my balance teams (Yes those are viable but limited to a range of ~15 pokemon) because if it wasn't here, I woulda run otehr stuff with actual offensive presence. Although I never used Yanmega extensively, it is a big
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Resource RU Viability Ranking
- Thread starter DTC
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MikeDawg
Banned deucer.
I want to comment on Yanmega, but I'm finding it strangely difficult to gather my thoughts on either end of the argument. Overall, Yanmega is terrifying to see in the opposing preview. More so than Hitmonlee or Moltres or almost anything bar maybe Exploud. I've never had too much trouble with the speed boost set bar air slash hax (which happens far too often), but Tinted Lens Specs is undoubtedly one of the best wallbreakers in the tier. Theoretically, offensively-inclined teams should be more afraid of the LO Speed Boost set, and it perhaps is more threatening, but I find it much easier to play around given the reduced power. Some careful switching and decent preparation are generally enough to quell the bug. Furthermore, mons like Fletchinder and Magneton really put a damper on LO's sweeping abilities. This is not a problem for specs, though. If you are using an offensive team, something will die whenever it comes in. If you are using a defensive team, if you aren't using registeel or spdef aromatisse, or one of them is worn down just a bit, Yanmega can exert ridiculous amounts of pressure, relatively easily paving the way for another mon's sweep. The opponent generally has something to force it out after the fact, but that does not alleviate the damage that Yanmega had already done. With hazard removal support from the likes of Hitmonlee, Gligar, Avest Trick Lopunny, etc., there is nothing preventing it from repeatedly coming back in and wreaking havoc. Perfect prediction aside, it can be checked by mons like Rhyperior and Moltres, but a smart Giga Drain or Air Slash (or even HP Rock) could spell doom for these mons (who both have much more to focus on than just walling Yanmega).
As Molk mentioned, Sticky Web is very helpful to Yanmega, namely the specs set, as it turns it from a wallbreaker to nearly a sweeper, as it is now much more difficult to force out after the kill since it will now be faster than almost all grounded mons. At this point in time, I definitely support Yanmega to A+. Perhaps this will be less true after a bit of metagame development. The possible loss of Sticky Web, a rise in mons like Magneton and Fletchinder, faster teams, etc. could all hamper Yanmega's performance. Until then though, it is a rough mon to handle.
While on the topic of dangerous Bug-Flying types, I would like to nominate an unranked mon for somewhere in the B Ranks: Scyther. Scyther has been quite overlooked this generation, but its deceptively great bulk, blazing speed, offensive synergy with common mons, and flexibility make it a definite underdog. To expedite this post, I'll break it up into a couple of Scyther sets, analysis style:
Scyther @ Eviolite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 216 HP / 252 Spd / 40 Atk
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Aerial Ace
- Baton Pass / Brick Break
- Roost
This is the set that I find most suited to the current RU meta, and the one that I have been using the most. Scyther has an incredible amount of setup opportunities with this set. It can realistically setup on more than half of the S/A ranks 1v1. If the opponent is coming on on a switch/on the revenge, it can tank an even more impressive quantity.
252 SpA Delphox Fire Blast vs. 216 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Scyther: 264-312 (78.8 - 93.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Moltres Fire Blast vs. 216 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Scyther: 282-332 (84.1 - 99.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Air Slash vs. 216 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Scyther: 260-307 (77.6 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 216 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Scyther: 273-322 (81.4 - 96.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And let's keep in mind that these are some of the strongest common STAB Supereffective attacks in RU. In terms of general tankiness:
252+ SpA Life Orb Reuniclus Psyshock vs. 216 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Scyther: 146-173 (43.5 - 51.6%) -- 9.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Sharpedo Crunch vs. 216 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Scyther: 142-169 (42.3 - 50.4%) -- 1.6% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Zoroark Flamethrower vs. 216 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Scyther: 192-229 (57.3 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant Iron Head vs. 216 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Scyther: 181-214 (54 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 216 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Scyther: 237-279 (70.7 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This, backed by STAB Technician Aerial Ace off of a likely +2 attack makes Scyther very threatening to common mons. Perhaps the most interesting part of this set is the third moveslot with Baton Pass / Brick Break. Scyther can choose Brick Break to take on a more traditional bulky sweeping role. It allows it to better handle Registeel, Electric Types, and Rhyperior (good luck with most of those). The almost universally greater option is to forego this coverage in favor of Baton Pass. With this move, Scyther's utility goes through the roof. It can not only support its teammates with a +2 attack pass, it also increases its sweeping potential exponentially by allowing it to essentially tap out when faced with something that resists flying/can threaten a 2hko. This is where those previous calcs come into play. If something like Jolteon comes in to revenge Scyther, it can tank a hit if it is healthy and pass to another mon who can continue the sweep, likely with a free turn. This process is even more dangerous when Scyther is faced with a mon that it can outspeed (ie. almost the entire tier). It can pass out of something like Moltres into, say, Sharpedo or Rhyperior. The opponent must now sack either Moltres, likely one of their few Scyther checks, or probably get nearly swept. If the former occurs, than Scyther is still healthy and ready to repeat. In the event that Scyther is slower than the opposing threat, Scyther itself will be crippled, but a gain is made in that the pass recipient will come in unscathed and ready to sweep.
As evidenced by the popularity of Vivillion as a point of interest, mono-flying coverage is pretty great in RU. Frequently, Scyther will be able to do quite a bit of work on its own simply with a boosted Aerial Ace.
Scyther @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- U-turn / Swords Dance
- Knock Off / Brick Break
- Aerial Ace
- Quick Attack / Brick Break
It can also take a more active role as an offensive pivot. This set takes greater advantage of that beautiful base 105 speed by using Scyther as a nightmare to many offensive teams, Sticky Web included. This set is more self-explanatory than the first, so I will keep things brief, but Scyther threatens generally the same things as before, except it has a far greater emphasis on individualized sweeping. It is perhaps more threatening to Sticky Web Offense than the first set, but it doesn't fare as well as the bulky varients in the typical metagame.
Scyther also has a number of other cool options. It does have access to defog, though it does not mesh well with its SR weakness. It could possibly run a full-on defensive set with its fighting resistance, high speed, and natural bulk doing wonders for stallish teams. Even Endure-Reversal is a possibility. The fact that it is unaffected by Sticky Webs, in a similar vein to Yanmega, makes it incredibly valuable in the current meta. Pairing it up with mons like Cobalion can allow for either a cool volt-turn core, or a devestating SD-Pass core, as Cobalion can easily tank any of the physical attacks, particularly rock moves, that are being used against a weakened Scyther.
I know that Kiyo use Scyther quite a bit during the Lass test (and it was quite scary every time I faced him!), so perhaps he could expand a bit?
Overall, I think that Scyther to Bish Rank is not much of a stretch at all. It is significantly better than mons like Pangoro and Eelektross, and its viability is only further increased by its easily identifiable niche that something like Pangoro just doesn't have.
Side note: Cincinno for B- or C+. It found a niche in killing the shit out of Frosslass. That's over, and the meta has changed. It cannot stand up to Sticky Web teams at all. Popular mons like Doublade put a complete stop to it. It offers ZERO defensive utility/synergy, and falls to common priority. The only blanket defensive threat that it can circumvent is Rhyperior, but the same can be said about Virizion and Sharpedo. I would argue that Ambipom is almost the better rodent now, as it at least has the super-strong Fake Out to deal with some offensive threats.
As Molk mentioned, Sticky Web is very helpful to Yanmega, namely the specs set, as it turns it from a wallbreaker to nearly a sweeper, as it is now much more difficult to force out after the kill since it will now be faster than almost all grounded mons. At this point in time, I definitely support Yanmega to A+. Perhaps this will be less true after a bit of metagame development. The possible loss of Sticky Web, a rise in mons like Magneton and Fletchinder, faster teams, etc. could all hamper Yanmega's performance. Until then though, it is a rough mon to handle.
While on the topic of dangerous Bug-Flying types, I would like to nominate an unranked mon for somewhere in the B Ranks: Scyther. Scyther has been quite overlooked this generation, but its deceptively great bulk, blazing speed, offensive synergy with common mons, and flexibility make it a definite underdog. To expedite this post, I'll break it up into a couple of Scyther sets, analysis style:
Scyther @ Eviolite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 216 HP / 252 Spd / 40 Atk
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Aerial Ace
- Baton Pass / Brick Break
- Roost
This is the set that I find most suited to the current RU meta, and the one that I have been using the most. Scyther has an incredible amount of setup opportunities with this set. It can realistically setup on more than half of the S/A ranks 1v1. If the opponent is coming on on a switch/on the revenge, it can tank an even more impressive quantity.
252 SpA Delphox Fire Blast vs. 216 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Scyther: 264-312 (78.8 - 93.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Moltres Fire Blast vs. 216 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Scyther: 282-332 (84.1 - 99.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Air Slash vs. 216 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Scyther: 260-307 (77.6 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 216 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Scyther: 273-322 (81.4 - 96.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And let's keep in mind that these are some of the strongest common STAB Supereffective attacks in RU. In terms of general tankiness:
252+ SpA Life Orb Reuniclus Psyshock vs. 216 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Scyther: 146-173 (43.5 - 51.6%) -- 9.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Sharpedo Crunch vs. 216 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Scyther: 142-169 (42.3 - 50.4%) -- 1.6% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Zoroark Flamethrower vs. 216 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Scyther: 192-229 (57.3 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant Iron Head vs. 216 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Scyther: 181-214 (54 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 216 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Scyther: 237-279 (70.7 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This, backed by STAB Technician Aerial Ace off of a likely +2 attack makes Scyther very threatening to common mons. Perhaps the most interesting part of this set is the third moveslot with Baton Pass / Brick Break. Scyther can choose Brick Break to take on a more traditional bulky sweeping role. It allows it to better handle Registeel, Electric Types, and Rhyperior (good luck with most of those). The almost universally greater option is to forego this coverage in favor of Baton Pass. With this move, Scyther's utility goes through the roof. It can not only support its teammates with a +2 attack pass, it also increases its sweeping potential exponentially by allowing it to essentially tap out when faced with something that resists flying/can threaten a 2hko. This is where those previous calcs come into play. If something like Jolteon comes in to revenge Scyther, it can tank a hit if it is healthy and pass to another mon who can continue the sweep, likely with a free turn. This process is even more dangerous when Scyther is faced with a mon that it can outspeed (ie. almost the entire tier). It can pass out of something like Moltres into, say, Sharpedo or Rhyperior. The opponent must now sack either Moltres, likely one of their few Scyther checks, or probably get nearly swept. If the former occurs, than Scyther is still healthy and ready to repeat. In the event that Scyther is slower than the opposing threat, Scyther itself will be crippled, but a gain is made in that the pass recipient will come in unscathed and ready to sweep.
As evidenced by the popularity of Vivillion as a point of interest, mono-flying coverage is pretty great in RU. Frequently, Scyther will be able to do quite a bit of work on its own simply with a boosted Aerial Ace.
Scyther @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- U-turn / Swords Dance
- Knock Off / Brick Break
- Aerial Ace
- Quick Attack / Brick Break
It can also take a more active role as an offensive pivot. This set takes greater advantage of that beautiful base 105 speed by using Scyther as a nightmare to many offensive teams, Sticky Web included. This set is more self-explanatory than the first, so I will keep things brief, but Scyther threatens generally the same things as before, except it has a far greater emphasis on individualized sweeping. It is perhaps more threatening to Sticky Web Offense than the first set, but it doesn't fare as well as the bulky varients in the typical metagame.
Scyther also has a number of other cool options. It does have access to defog, though it does not mesh well with its SR weakness. It could possibly run a full-on defensive set with its fighting resistance, high speed, and natural bulk doing wonders for stallish teams. Even Endure-Reversal is a possibility. The fact that it is unaffected by Sticky Webs, in a similar vein to Yanmega, makes it incredibly valuable in the current meta. Pairing it up with mons like Cobalion can allow for either a cool volt-turn core, or a devestating SD-Pass core, as Cobalion can easily tank any of the physical attacks, particularly rock moves, that are being used against a weakened Scyther.
I know that Kiyo use Scyther quite a bit during the Lass test (and it was quite scary every time I faced him!), so perhaps he could expand a bit?
Overall, I think that Scyther to Bish Rank is not much of a stretch at all. It is significantly better than mons like Pangoro and Eelektross, and its viability is only further increased by its easily identifiable niche that something like Pangoro just doesn't have.
Side note: Cincinno for B- or C+. It found a niche in killing the shit out of Frosslass. That's over, and the meta has changed. It cannot stand up to Sticky Web teams at all. Popular mons like Doublade put a complete stop to it. It offers ZERO defensive utility/synergy, and falls to common priority. The only blanket defensive threat that it can circumvent is Rhyperior, but the same can be said about Virizion and Sharpedo. I would argue that Ambipom is almost the better rodent now, as it at least has the super-strong Fake Out to deal with some offensive threats.
I don't really agree with this part of your post. Cinccino is still an extremely fast Pokemon (outspeeds modest Exploud and Clawitzer in webs) and has a way around Doublade in Sing so it should stay B. Not to mention that with King's rock it has a ~30% chance to stop webs from going up lol
I agree with Scyther anyway as it looks good on paper and i'll certainly try it out eventually.
Throwing in my support for Yanmega to A+ and i'll make a post about Omastar as soon as i get to try better it as it has really good potential as an HO hazards mon
Nominating Arbok for C Rank. Arbok distinguishes itself from Eelektross in that it can paralyze foes with Glare, plus it can force out offensive threats with Intimidate or run Shed Skin to make it hard for stall to break it. It can also absorb t-spikes and pluck off weakened faster attackers with Sucker Punch. It can also run ShedRest if you really hate stall. It struggles with physical walls and bulky special attackers, however, and needs those removed before it can sweep.
i support amoonguss for A-
420BlazeIt (Amoonguss) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 140 Def / 116 SDef / 4 Spd
Bold Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Foul Play
This is an amazing tank/wall mon that can switch in on a myriad of threats.
calcs
the threat of spore is great and can often be used to force out an opposing sweeper that cant ohko amoon. foul play also does ~35% against opposing doublade which gives amoonguss a way to retaliate against its number 1 switch in. all in all a pretty clutch pokemon that always gets off clutch damage or a spore when u need it too n_n
420BlazeIt (Amoonguss) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 140 Def / 116 SDef / 4 Spd
Bold Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Foul Play
This is an amazing tank/wall mon that can switch in on a myriad of threats.
calcs
+6 252+ Atk Slurpuff Return vs. 248 HP / 140+ Def Amoonguss: 357-421 (82.8 - 97.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Reckless Hitmonlee High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 140+ Def Amoonguss: 175-207 (40.6 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Hitmonlee Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 140+ Def Amoonguss: 146-172 (33.8 - 39.9%) -- 29% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Sharpedo Crunch vs. 248 HP / 140+ Def Amoonguss: 179-212 (41.5 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Sharpedo Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 116 SpD Amoonguss: 109-129 (25.2 - 29.9%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Sharpedo Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 116 SpD Amoonguss: 237-281 (54.9 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 116 SpD Amoonguss: 102-121 (23.6 - 28%) -- possible 5HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Doublade Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 140+ Def Amoonguss: 130-154 (30.1 - 35.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Druddigon Outrage vs. 248 HP / 140+ Def Amoonguss: 207-244 (48 - 56.6%) -- 35.5% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Mega Banette Shadow Claw vs. 248 HP / 140+ Def Amoonguss: 153-181 (35.4 - 41.9%) -- 89.3% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
16+ Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 140+ Def Amoonguss: 163-193 (37.8 - 44.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Reckless Hitmonlee High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 140+ Def Amoonguss: 175-207 (40.6 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Hitmonlee Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 140+ Def Amoonguss: 146-172 (33.8 - 39.9%) -- 29% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Sharpedo Crunch vs. 248 HP / 140+ Def Amoonguss: 179-212 (41.5 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Sharpedo Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 116 SpD Amoonguss: 109-129 (25.2 - 29.9%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Sharpedo Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 116 SpD Amoonguss: 237-281 (54.9 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 116 SpD Amoonguss: 102-121 (23.6 - 28%) -- possible 5HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Doublade Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 140+ Def Amoonguss: 130-154 (30.1 - 35.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Druddigon Outrage vs. 248 HP / 140+ Def Amoonguss: 207-244 (48 - 56.6%) -- 35.5% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Mega Banette Shadow Claw vs. 248 HP / 140+ Def Amoonguss: 153-181 (35.4 - 41.9%) -- 89.3% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
16+ Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 140+ Def Amoonguss: 163-193 (37.8 - 44.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
the threat of spore is great and can often be used to force out an opposing sweeper that cant ohko amoon. foul play also does ~35% against opposing doublade which gives amoonguss a way to retaliate against its number 1 switch in. all in all a pretty clutch pokemon that always gets off clutch damage or a spore when u need it too n_n
Alright, time for some updates!
I'd like to see some discussion on Scyther, Arbok, Registeel, Gligar, Gallade, Sharpedo, and Gastrodon before making any changes to their ranks (same goes with all the S rank Pokemon suggested to be moved down a page or so before).
Accelgor up from C rank---->B rank
Yanmega up from A rank----->A+ rank
Amoonguss up from B+ rank----->A- rank
Cinccino down from B rank------>B- Rank
Omastar up from C rank----->C+ rank
Yanmega up from A rank----->A+ rank
Amoonguss up from B+ rank----->A- rank
Cinccino down from B rank------>B- Rank
Omastar up from C rank----->C+ rank
I'd like to see some discussion on Scyther, Arbok, Registeel, Gligar, Gallade, Sharpedo, and Gastrodon before making any changes to their ranks (same goes with all the S rank Pokemon suggested to be moved down a page or so before).
I agree with the Registeel rise to A-. The amount of insane bulk it has, along with the ability to paralyze many offensive threats, just makes it very hard for offense to cope with it should their Hitmonlee/Delphox/threat that hits it SE be gone. Add in a Wish Passer such as Alomomola or Aromatisse and it's ridiculously difficult to take down. It also an awesome counter to threats such as Exploud and Yanmega (who seems to be on the ladder much more often). Even teams that prepare for it can be surprised by the amount it does:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rususpecttest-135622014 (I'm lat a)
This guy was clearly prepared for Registeel at all costs for his Yanmega to sweep, including 2 trappers, a spinner that hits Registeel super effectively, and Delphox. The amount of work Registeel still puts in this match is insane, beating Magneton, Dugtrio, paralyzing Hitmonchan, and STILL getting up Stealth Rocks (It also took only 63% from Delphox Fire Blast!), allowing me to clean up with Virizion. This replay may not have the best quality (Hitmonchan ._.) but it's still pretty crazy how much utility Registeel under that much pressure. In my opinion, the amount of utility, bulk, and perks Registeel brings to the team is enough to raise it to A- rank.
I can't really talk about the the others, but Registeel needs more love.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rususpecttest-135622014 (I'm lat a)
This guy was clearly prepared for Registeel at all costs for his Yanmega to sweep, including 2 trappers, a spinner that hits Registeel super effectively, and Delphox. The amount of work Registeel still puts in this match is insane, beating Magneton, Dugtrio, paralyzing Hitmonchan, and STILL getting up Stealth Rocks (It also took only 63% from Delphox Fire Blast!), allowing me to clean up with Virizion. This replay may not have the best quality (Hitmonchan ._.) but it's still pretty crazy how much utility Registeel under that much pressure. In my opinion, the amount of utility, bulk, and perks Registeel brings to the team is enough to raise it to A- rank.
I can't really talk about the the others, but Registeel needs more love.
Comments on the above Pokemon that I'd like to move:
Registeel:
I think Registeel can easily move up to A-, and possibly even A. It's one of the best defensive rocks setters in the tier, and although it can't wall everything mainly due to its lack of reliable recovery, the ability to check tons of sweepers by virtue of its typing (such as Yanmega) or by virtue of Thunder Wave (such as Sharpedo or really any fast, non-electric offensive Pokemon) really give it a presence that can't really be matched. It works really well with both Alomomola and Aromatisse, to the point where Wish support is actually quite likely (much more so than you can say of other Pokemon!). On a defensive team with the proper support in place, it's very reliable and difficult for the opponent to break without good prediction and strong Pokemon.
Gallade:
I would personally like to see Gallade in A rank. Gallade is really freaking unpredictable (three great established sets, more if you're real and you innovate) and having a secondary Psychic-type STAB is awesome. Although it does have trouble with physical attacks and revenge killers, two of its best sets, Bulk Up and Substitute + 3 Attacks, somewhat mitigate that problem. Gallade is also deceptively strong, having far more power than both Virizion and Cobalion while retaining the usefulness of a secondary STAB that Hitmonlee lacks. Overall a really solid mon that works well on both balanced and offense teams.
Gligar:
I think Gligar can move up to A-. With Froslass having gotten the boot, it's a lot easier now for Gligar to Defog even from the beginning of a match before its team succumbs to hazard pressures. Stall has become a far more viable strategy as well, and Gligar is easily the best Defogger for Stall teams, facing only minor competition from Skuntank and Hitmontop. Of every hazard remover in the tier, it arguably struggles the least with Braviary/Doublade anti-hazard-removal cores, as every other spinner or defogger either (a) loses offensive momentum attempting to get past Doublade, or (b) is promptly KO'd by Braviary after Defogging. While Gligar still struggles with Choice Band or Life Orb Braviary, it fares better against both than any other Defogger since it doesn't necessarily have to sacrifice itself getting past them.
Registeel:
I think Registeel can easily move up to A-, and possibly even A. It's one of the best defensive rocks setters in the tier, and although it can't wall everything mainly due to its lack of reliable recovery, the ability to check tons of sweepers by virtue of its typing (such as Yanmega) or by virtue of Thunder Wave (such as Sharpedo or really any fast, non-electric offensive Pokemon) really give it a presence that can't really be matched. It works really well with both Alomomola and Aromatisse, to the point where Wish support is actually quite likely (much more so than you can say of other Pokemon!). On a defensive team with the proper support in place, it's very reliable and difficult for the opponent to break without good prediction and strong Pokemon.
Gallade:
I would personally like to see Gallade in A rank. Gallade is really freaking unpredictable (three great established sets, more if you're real and you innovate) and having a secondary Psychic-type STAB is awesome. Although it does have trouble with physical attacks and revenge killers, two of its best sets, Bulk Up and Substitute + 3 Attacks, somewhat mitigate that problem. Gallade is also deceptively strong, having far more power than both Virizion and Cobalion while retaining the usefulness of a secondary STAB that Hitmonlee lacks. Overall a really solid mon that works well on both balanced and offense teams.
Gligar:
I think Gligar can move up to A-. With Froslass having gotten the boot, it's a lot easier now for Gligar to Defog even from the beginning of a match before its team succumbs to hazard pressures. Stall has become a far more viable strategy as well, and Gligar is easily the best Defogger for Stall teams, facing only minor competition from Skuntank and Hitmontop. Of every hazard remover in the tier, it arguably struggles the least with Braviary/Doublade anti-hazard-removal cores, as every other spinner or defogger either (a) loses offensive momentum attempting to get past Doublade, or (b) is promptly KO'd by Braviary after Defogging. While Gligar still struggles with Choice Band or Life Orb Braviary, it fares better against both than any other Defogger since it doesn't necessarily have to sacrifice itself getting past them.
Yeah I can agree with Scyther getting ranked.
Scyther is pretty versatile in terms of sets, being able to use Choice Band, Choice Scarf and even Swords Dance sets effectively. With a great speed tier ( Even if it barely falls short of outspeeding Durant, Virizion and Cobalion ) and an attack stat to back it up Scyther is quite threatening. Scyther also has a rather good movepool consisting of Technician boosted Bug Bite and Aerial Ace while having Brick Break and Knock Off for coverage. Scyther can keep up momentum with U Turn if you are running a Voltturn team which also helps. Scyther his huge Stealth Rock weakness does suck and the fact that he doesn't have to good of a type synergy with most Defog users doesn't help either but I still think it should be ranked. C+ rank seems fine to me personally.
Scyther is pretty versatile in terms of sets, being able to use Choice Band, Choice Scarf and even Swords Dance sets effectively. With a great speed tier ( Even if it barely falls short of outspeeding Durant, Virizion and Cobalion ) and an attack stat to back it up Scyther is quite threatening. Scyther also has a rather good movepool consisting of Technician boosted Bug Bite and Aerial Ace while having Brick Break and Knock Off for coverage. Scyther can keep up momentum with U Turn if you are running a Voltturn team which also helps. Scyther his huge Stealth Rock weakness does suck and the fact that he doesn't have to good of a type synergy with most Defog users doesn't help either but I still think it should be ranked. C+ rank seems fine to me personally.
Arbok: C
Registeel: A- (excellent in balance/semistall for large bulk and typing, tons of utility)
Gallade: A (capability of forcing out foes allows a sub set, can run a bulky AV set, can run BU to soften physical hits dealt to it, gets past Amoonguss)
Also Linoone for D Rank. While it has BD+ES, it requires huge support to sweep teams, having Steel-types and physically bulky mons removed and requiring either being Choice locked into a Ghost-type move or using Dual Screens, which can be seen coming from a mile away. Ghost-types with Will-o-Wisp (Banette) can just switch in on the switch-out/Memento to halt Linoone's setup opportunities, and it's also shut down by Taunt before a BD.
Registeel: A- (excellent in balance/semistall for large bulk and typing, tons of utility)
Gallade: A (capability of forcing out foes allows a sub set, can run a bulky AV set, can run BU to soften physical hits dealt to it, gets past Amoonguss)
Also Linoone for D Rank. While it has BD+ES, it requires huge support to sweep teams, having Steel-types and physically bulky mons removed and requiring either being Choice locked into a Ghost-type move or using Dual Screens, which can be seen coming from a mile away. Ghost-types with Will-o-Wisp (Banette) can just switch in on the switch-out/Memento to halt Linoone's setup opportunities, and it's also shut down by Taunt before a BD.
MikeDawg
Banned deucer.
I'm torn on Registeel. One one hand, it has the ability to check some incredibly scary pokemon (Exploud, Yanmega, Meloetta without Focus Blast, etc.), but on the other, it is vulnerable to so many very common threats (Rhyperior, Delphox, Hitmonlee, Doublade, Moltres, Cobalion, etc.). Yes, Thunder Wave offers it the opportunity to cripple many of these threats, but out of just the listed ones, Rhyperior is immune, Delphox can 2hko (registeel would be the one switching in), Hitmonlee can 1hko, and Moltres can 2hko. I definitely understand that it is not Registeel's job to check these mons, and there are 5 other mons, but the relatively large number of them is of note. Registeel, due to its complete lack of recovery, is also relatively easy to wear down, which makes the aforementioned list of common checks more sizable.
That being said, Registeel isn't incredibly difficult to support. Wish support as CC mentioned is incredibly helpful for Registeel. However, the same mons that would be wearing Registeel down during the match (Yanmega, Exploud, Meloetta, etc.) are also incredibly threatening to both Alomomola and Aromatisse. This makes the task of wishpassing to a weakened Registeel even more difficult. In addition, wish-passing, in my opinion, begins to edge past the "some support" dictated in the A-Rank description, though the relatively good synergy that Registeel shares with the wish-passers concerning a decent number of common threats makes it more passable. Registeel also fits decently well into the B-Rank description of being potential setup bait for dangerous sweepers. This is again complicated by its access to Thunder Wave which can cripple many of them, but sub mons and lum mons make this a bit less threatening. In reality, Registeel will be switching in to the things that it is meant to check, and since it doesn't have the healing capabilities of Alomomola or Slowking, every switch in is dangerous, and stopping one threat, Thunder Wave or not, can be enough to KO it or cripple it for the remainder of the game.
Returning back to the description of B-Rank. I think that it is certainly arguable that Registeel is a tad eclipsed. Something like Slowking can better deal with nearly all special threats, and something like Rhyperior can better deal with the physical spectrum. Registeel becomes useful when you need to better check something like Sharpedo, which Rhyperior struggles with, or Yanmega, which Slowking can't handle. A similar scenario can be arranged when you are using something like Aromatisse, and you now need a Drapion check, etc.
To me, Registeel fits quite well in to the upper-end of the "partially outperformed by a Pokemon in A or S Rank" clause of B-Rank. It has a defensive niche, and that is its steel typing that allows it to fill in defensive holes. As a standalone mon, however, higher-tier mons have better overall defensive capabilities. Overall, I find that Registeel fits in much better alongside the likes of Drapion, Fletchinder, and Gligar than it does with Jolteon, Amoonguss, and Durant.
That being said, Registeel isn't incredibly difficult to support. Wish support as CC mentioned is incredibly helpful for Registeel. However, the same mons that would be wearing Registeel down during the match (Yanmega, Exploud, Meloetta, etc.) are also incredibly threatening to both Alomomola and Aromatisse. This makes the task of wishpassing to a weakened Registeel even more difficult. In addition, wish-passing, in my opinion, begins to edge past the "some support" dictated in the A-Rank description, though the relatively good synergy that Registeel shares with the wish-passers concerning a decent number of common threats makes it more passable. Registeel also fits decently well into the B-Rank description of being potential setup bait for dangerous sweepers. This is again complicated by its access to Thunder Wave which can cripple many of them, but sub mons and lum mons make this a bit less threatening. In reality, Registeel will be switching in to the things that it is meant to check, and since it doesn't have the healing capabilities of Alomomola or Slowking, every switch in is dangerous, and stopping one threat, Thunder Wave or not, can be enough to KO it or cripple it for the remainder of the game.
Returning back to the description of B-Rank. I think that it is certainly arguable that Registeel is a tad eclipsed. Something like Slowking can better deal with nearly all special threats, and something like Rhyperior can better deal with the physical spectrum. Registeel becomes useful when you need to better check something like Sharpedo, which Rhyperior struggles with, or Yanmega, which Slowking can't handle. A similar scenario can be arranged when you are using something like Aromatisse, and you now need a Drapion check, etc.
To me, Registeel fits quite well in to the upper-end of the "partially outperformed by a Pokemon in A or S Rank" clause of B-Rank. It has a defensive niche, and that is its steel typing that allows it to fill in defensive holes. As a standalone mon, however, higher-tier mons have better overall defensive capabilities. Overall, I find that Registeel fits in much better alongside the likes of Drapion, Fletchinder, and Gligar than it does with Jolteon, Amoonguss, and Durant.
Arbok is bad and does not deserve to be on the viability rankings imo, and if anything it should be D rank. I don't see what niche it has over other bulky sweepers tbh, so unless someone gives me some legitimate arguments as to why I should use Arbok, ever, I'm not in favor of it going on the viability rankings. Also, provide replays to show me how it functions in the meta.
Registeel is fine where it is imo, it can tank hits very well and has a nice defensive typing, but being vulnerable to some of the most common types in the tier hurts it a lot. It also hits like llamas, making it setup bait for something like Doublade unless you run Twave (which you shouldn't most of the time, because Registeel works best on Stall). In addition to that, it lacks reliable recovery, making it easy to wear down. It's a good mon, but I feel like it doesn't stand out in the meta atm and fulfills more of a specific niche than being something that outperforms the bulk of the meta, so I'd like to keep it in B+
Move Gallade down to B/B+. I feel like its niche is not big enough to stay in A, I've never had the feeling that I am missing out on it when not using it. I suppose nowadays it is used mostly as a BU stallbreaker, but that set is deadweight vs HO teams due to not having powerful priority or excellent bulk, and it's honestly too slow in this meta.
Shark should go S without a doubt, it still is a monster on spikes HO, easily cleaning offensive teams once their lee is gone and being able to go physical or special to focus on killing certain mons more easily. It is an absolute staple on offense and just slaughters so much, it deserves S
Gligar is the best defogger atm, switches in on just about any physical attacker and defogs. Access to SR gives it further utility, and access to taunt and toxic prevents him from becoming total setup bait. Sadly it has 4MSS, but that is overcomeable.
Registeel is fine where it is imo, it can tank hits very well and has a nice defensive typing, but being vulnerable to some of the most common types in the tier hurts it a lot. It also hits like llamas, making it setup bait for something like Doublade unless you run Twave (which you shouldn't most of the time, because Registeel works best on Stall). In addition to that, it lacks reliable recovery, making it easy to wear down. It's a good mon, but I feel like it doesn't stand out in the meta atm and fulfills more of a specific niche than being something that outperforms the bulk of the meta, so I'd like to keep it in B+
Move Gallade down to B/B+. I feel like its niche is not big enough to stay in A, I've never had the feeling that I am missing out on it when not using it. I suppose nowadays it is used mostly as a BU stallbreaker, but that set is deadweight vs HO teams due to not having powerful priority or excellent bulk, and it's honestly too slow in this meta.
Shark should go S without a doubt, it still is a monster on spikes HO, easily cleaning offensive teams once their lee is gone and being able to go physical or special to focus on killing certain mons more easily. It is an absolute staple on offense and just slaughters so much, it deserves S
Gligar is the best defogger atm, switches in on just about any physical attacker and defogs. Access to SR gives it further utility, and access to taunt and toxic prevents him from becoming total setup bait. Sadly it has 4MSS, but that is overcomeable.
Scyther, Arbok, Registeel, Gligar, Gallade, Sharpedo, and Gastrodon
Not going to comment on Scyther, Gallade, or Gastrodon because I lack any major experience with them.
I'm going to say that Arbok is worthy of C-. It is as good as the other Pokemon in that ranking the way I see it. Intimidate can let it act as a decent pivot, and Coil makes Gunk Shot a reliable and powerful threat to the opposition. Earthquake hits the Steel-types that Gunk Shot doesn't hit, and Sucker Punch KO some faster threats and some weaker ones. It obviously isn't an amazing Pokemon, but it is solid enough for a C- ranking. It is actually not terribly difficult to bring Arbok in and set up a Coil boost, as it can be done on walls such as Aromatisse. Gunk Shot's power can really make this set effective, and its Speed is enough to outrun slower threats. Here's one replay, as I'm assuming I need to provide one. http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rususpecttest-135133484
I got somewhat lucky, but the fact is that Arbok can still be a threat if used correctly; it's being nominated for C-, and I think it's good enough for that ranking.
Registeel seems fine in B+. Its still an effective wall, and has access to Protect to force mindgames with Hitmonlee users. It suffers from lack of recovery outside of the RestTalk set, but that set is still viable on stall teams. Protect + Leftovers generally grants it enough recovery, and it has enoug hsupport moves in the form of Toxic, Thunder Wave, and Stealth Rock to make a solid threat in the metagame. I feel as if B+ is fine for it.
I believe that Gligar should move up to A-. It is far and away the best Defog user in the tier, and Accelgor cannot really do much to it besides Final Gambit, which is usually done at 1 HP. It is also a solid answer to many physical threats in the tier, especially Hitmonlee, and is able to tank hits even after its Eviolite is Knocked Off. Its pure bulk allows it to get a Defog off even against physical Sharpedo, and that is an accomplishment. It has solid recovery with Roost, and can also pivot with U-Turn. It may have 4MSS, but it is very good at what it does, and provides a very solid answer to the rampant entry hazard teams in the metagame. However, its 4MSS and its relative lack of power in my eyes prevents it from rising higher than A- in general.
Sharpedo should definitely be S-rank. Last metagame it was amazing with Froslass supporting it with Spikes, and in this metagame, its essentially the same thing with Accelgor. It can simply rip offensive teams to shreds, as its access to Waterfall + Crunch STABs makes it a major behemoth in general. With entry hazard support, Sharpedo is ridiculously good. Its versatility in the 4th move slot is what really cements its place in this upper echelon of the metagame, though, as it has a variety of solid options including Destiny Bond, Zen Headbutt, Earthquake, Aqua Jet, and Ice Beam, each which fulfill specific roles and which can be very threatening to deal with. Finding out which move Sharpedo carries isn't exactly easy either, as its raw power will make the opposition pay.
Not going to comment on Scyther, Gallade, or Gastrodon because I lack any major experience with them.
I'm going to say that Arbok is worthy of C-. It is as good as the other Pokemon in that ranking the way I see it. Intimidate can let it act as a decent pivot, and Coil makes Gunk Shot a reliable and powerful threat to the opposition. Earthquake hits the Steel-types that Gunk Shot doesn't hit, and Sucker Punch KO some faster threats and some weaker ones. It obviously isn't an amazing Pokemon, but it is solid enough for a C- ranking. It is actually not terribly difficult to bring Arbok in and set up a Coil boost, as it can be done on walls such as Aromatisse. Gunk Shot's power can really make this set effective, and its Speed is enough to outrun slower threats. Here's one replay, as I'm assuming I need to provide one. http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rususpecttest-135133484
I got somewhat lucky, but the fact is that Arbok can still be a threat if used correctly; it's being nominated for C-, and I think it's good enough for that ranking.
Registeel seems fine in B+. Its still an effective wall, and has access to Protect to force mindgames with Hitmonlee users. It suffers from lack of recovery outside of the RestTalk set, but that set is still viable on stall teams. Protect + Leftovers generally grants it enough recovery, and it has enoug hsupport moves in the form of Toxic, Thunder Wave, and Stealth Rock to make a solid threat in the metagame. I feel as if B+ is fine for it.
I believe that Gligar should move up to A-. It is far and away the best Defog user in the tier, and Accelgor cannot really do much to it besides Final Gambit, which is usually done at 1 HP. It is also a solid answer to many physical threats in the tier, especially Hitmonlee, and is able to tank hits even after its Eviolite is Knocked Off. Its pure bulk allows it to get a Defog off even against physical Sharpedo, and that is an accomplishment. It has solid recovery with Roost, and can also pivot with U-Turn. It may have 4MSS, but it is very good at what it does, and provides a very solid answer to the rampant entry hazard teams in the metagame. However, its 4MSS and its relative lack of power in my eyes prevents it from rising higher than A- in general.
Sharpedo should definitely be S-rank. Last metagame it was amazing with Froslass supporting it with Spikes, and in this metagame, its essentially the same thing with Accelgor. It can simply rip offensive teams to shreds, as its access to Waterfall + Crunch STABs makes it a major behemoth in general. With entry hazard support, Sharpedo is ridiculously good. Its versatility in the 4th move slot is what really cements its place in this upper echelon of the metagame, though, as it has a variety of solid options including Destiny Bond, Zen Headbutt, Earthquake, Aqua Jet, and Ice Beam, each which fulfill specific roles and which can be very threatening to deal with. Finding out which move Sharpedo carries isn't exactly easy either, as its raw power will make the opposition pay.
In my opinion Sharpedo should be A+. Now that Froslass is gone, Sharpedo is weakened somewhat. Unlike Yanmega, every battler knows Sharpedo is Speed boost. It doesn't have multiple sets that keeps on having your opponent to guess. Also, a Mach Punch from Hitmonlee OHKOs a Sharpedo which effectively negates the effect of Sharpedo's speed boost.
MikeDawg
Banned deucer.
Frosslass or not, there are still plenty of ways to get spikes on the field. Accelgor, Roselia, even something like omastar can typically get the job done.
And Sharpedo is imo much more dangerously unpredictable than Yanmega. I always assume tinted lens mega. If it ends up being speed boost, I just give a "thank god" and continue with my day.
Sharpedo on the other hand is either physical (yay doublade and alomomola and aromatisse) or mixed (not any of those!). Given how Sharpedo has much better neutral coverage than does yanmega, it frequently has close to tinted lens-esque power, with speed boost to boot! A set mispredict can easily mean the game against pedo, whereas something like spdef aroma or registeel can always switch in to yanmega reliably.
Ok, been thinking long and hard about these, but I'm going to go ahead and throw these out there:
Nominating Doublade for S/A+ rank: Now, I know a lot of people are probably going to give me some crazy "what shit are you on?" stare, but hear me out a bit. Perhaps it's just me looking at things differently than most others, but I think one of the biggest problems RU has is the lack of good Defog users (bar Gligar, who's only suitable for Stall / defensive teams) Offensive teams (the ones generally fucked by Webs) have to resort to Rapid Spin users, of which, absolutely none beat Doublade, even with Knock Off. Hitmonlee? You got a ~31% chance to 2HKO with Knock Off. Kabutops? ~8% chance with the same move. Both of these are with Adamant Life Orb vs. 252 HP Doublade after Stealth Rock. Now, maybe they can beat Doublade, but they're going to be at the point where anything faster than them is picking them off before the spin. When Claydol, one of the worst spinners in the tier, is actually about the best choice to beat Doublade one-on-one, you know something's wack. So, what am I getting at here? Doublade beats p. much every spinner in the tier one-on-one when it switches into them, even if they predict the switch correctly. And if you go the route of Defog, odds are that the Doublade user will have a Braviary in tow to punish that. We're already beginning to see that Accelgor is very effective with laying Spikes quickly, just like Froslass. I can very easily see the same thing happening with Leavanny with Sticky Web if / when Shuckle gets the boot. Why is this? Doublade spinblocks like no other for them. It can tank hits reliably (physically at least) and it can sweep effectively. Insanely good at what it does, brings a lot to the table on both offense and defense, and (imo) makes hazards as dangerous as they are because of the ease it beats spinners with. Needs to be A+ at least, but I honestly think it's influencial enough to be S rank.
Nominating Braviary for A rank: On similar terms with Doublade, Braviary is a staple for any hazard-stacking team thanks to Defiant and a sky-high Attack stat. Life Orb sets decimate offensive teams under Sticky Web thanks to its wide coverage and ability to switch moves while still hitting really hard. Stall teams also have issues with this coverage, but they really crumble against Sub+Bulk Up sets. Such a set uses Gligar, the most common (and reliable) Defogger as complete setup fodder, possibly nabbing a free +2 boost to start out with if it comes in on Defog. Either way, it's an easy Sub and +1/+1 to Braviary's Attack and Defense, rendering Dragon Tail users useless (bye Slowking) It also makes 101 HP Subs, so eat your heart out S-Toss Registeel (read: all of them) Oh, and did I mention how Spikes ruin the Rocks and Steels used to counter it while Sticky Web lets it take a dump on bulky offense / balance teams once the cleaner / scarfer on such teams is gone? Between Life Orb and Sub + Bulk Up, Braviary is super good right now. It relies a lot on hazards, hates Rocks, and generally has to pick which team archetype it wants to take a dump on and which it has to predict against, but it's a staple on any team that abuses hazards and is able to threaten p. much the entire metagame with just two sets.
Nominating Doublade for S/A+ rank: Now, I know a lot of people are probably going to give me some crazy "what shit are you on?" stare, but hear me out a bit. Perhaps it's just me looking at things differently than most others, but I think one of the biggest problems RU has is the lack of good Defog users (bar Gligar, who's only suitable for Stall / defensive teams) Offensive teams (the ones generally fucked by Webs) have to resort to Rapid Spin users, of which, absolutely none beat Doublade, even with Knock Off. Hitmonlee? You got a ~31% chance to 2HKO with Knock Off. Kabutops? ~8% chance with the same move. Both of these are with Adamant Life Orb vs. 252 HP Doublade after Stealth Rock. Now, maybe they can beat Doublade, but they're going to be at the point where anything faster than them is picking them off before the spin. When Claydol, one of the worst spinners in the tier, is actually about the best choice to beat Doublade one-on-one, you know something's wack. So, what am I getting at here? Doublade beats p. much every spinner in the tier one-on-one when it switches into them, even if they predict the switch correctly. And if you go the route of Defog, odds are that the Doublade user will have a Braviary in tow to punish that. We're already beginning to see that Accelgor is very effective with laying Spikes quickly, just like Froslass. I can very easily see the same thing happening with Leavanny with Sticky Web if / when Shuckle gets the boot. Why is this? Doublade spinblocks like no other for them. It can tank hits reliably (physically at least) and it can sweep effectively. Insanely good at what it does, brings a lot to the table on both offense and defense, and (imo) makes hazards as dangerous as they are because of the ease it beats spinners with. Needs to be A+ at least, but I honestly think it's influencial enough to be S rank.
Nominating Braviary for A rank: On similar terms with Doublade, Braviary is a staple for any hazard-stacking team thanks to Defiant and a sky-high Attack stat. Life Orb sets decimate offensive teams under Sticky Web thanks to its wide coverage and ability to switch moves while still hitting really hard. Stall teams also have issues with this coverage, but they really crumble against Sub+Bulk Up sets. Such a set uses Gligar, the most common (and reliable) Defogger as complete setup fodder, possibly nabbing a free +2 boost to start out with if it comes in on Defog. Either way, it's an easy Sub and +1/+1 to Braviary's Attack and Defense, rendering Dragon Tail users useless (bye Slowking) It also makes 101 HP Subs, so eat your heart out S-Toss Registeel (read: all of them) Oh, and did I mention how Spikes ruin the Rocks and Steels used to counter it while Sticky Web lets it take a dump on bulky offense / balance teams once the cleaner / scarfer on such teams is gone? Between Life Orb and Sub + Bulk Up, Braviary is super good right now. It relies a lot on hazards, hates Rocks, and generally has to pick which team archetype it wants to take a dump on and which it has to predict against, but it's a staple on any team that abuses hazards and is able to threaten p. much the entire metagame with just two sets.
I'll actually agree with you about Doublade moving to A+. From my experience, this thing is literally a lord. Easily the best spin-blocker in the tier; spinning against this thing is literally impossible unless you're using Claydol, in which case you'll probably end up losing anyway. Setting up an SD with Doublade is ridiculously easy, as it can set up on a wide variety of physical attackers, even walling a lot of threats such as Cobalion. Its typing also means it can easily set up on Pokemon such as Cresselia and Aromatisse. Between Shadow Sneak, Iron Head, and Shadow Claw, Doublade can destroy a large part of the metagame. Even if its item gets Knocked Off, Doublade is still bulky enough to beat Hitmonlee, and that makes it even better in the current metagame. Killing this thing with physical attacks is ridiculously difficult, and many special attackers such as Delphox cannot handle Doublade's +2 Shadow Sneak very well. Its also fast enough to outrun threats such as Slowking and Rhyperior, making it even more deadly. It's definitely good enough for A+ in the current metagame; I would rather A+ than S at this point in time though, as it can still be played around with special threats such as Meloetta and Exploud due to its very poor Special Defense, and its Shadow Sneak is not "terribly strong." Also, even though it is bulky without Eviolite, Knock Off still hurts it, obviously. However, I feel that it should definitely be moved up to A+ at least.
Gallade should definitely drop to B+/B. It is totally outclassed by Hitmonlee and that Psychic typing amd the fact that it doesn't have Mach Punch hinders its ability to check the dangerous Dark types that run around namely Sharpedo and Zoroark. It also leaves it even more prone to Doublade. The Bulk Up set is probably its only niche (i don't have experience with it but Gurdurr has similar stats and access to priority so it might even be better lol)but with all the offensive teams running around that pack Fletchinder, Zoroark and a ton of special attackers that hit it on the special side like Yanmega and Mismagius (not to mention rotom-c who can cripple it with Trick) it is pretty much a liability. It is also prone to toxic spikes and can't be run along with the premiere spinner for obvious reasons.
I also feel that Omastar should go to B- as its hazard lead seat is simply awesome and hits the most common defogger for supereffective damage, threatens common "leads" like Rhyperior, and guarantees Rocks on the opponent's side. It is also an handy fletchinder counter for HO teams if you keep it until late game.
Registeel can stay in B+ as, while it counters threatening stuff like Yanmega and Exploud for Stall and a decent paralisys spreader for Balance, it is super prone to common stuff like Moltres and Delphox.
Quick thoughts on other stuff
Gligar can only go up as it is only more effective as a defogger with Froslass gone and still counters Hitmonlee and soft checks at least any physical attacker but im fine if it stays where it is
Arbok seems effective against stall in that replay and i trust Tsunami so i guess it goes to D/C-
Doublade is simply the best spinblocker in the tier and an amazing mon in general and it should go to A+
I also feel that Omastar should go to B- as its hazard lead seat is simply awesome and hits the most common defogger for supereffective damage, threatens common "leads" like Rhyperior, and guarantees Rocks on the opponent's side. It is also an handy fletchinder counter for HO teams if you keep it until late game.
Registeel can stay in B+ as, while it counters threatening stuff like Yanmega and Exploud for Stall and a decent paralisys spreader for Balance, it is super prone to common stuff like Moltres and Delphox.
Quick thoughts on other stuff
Gligar can only go up as it is only more effective as a defogger with Froslass gone and still counters Hitmonlee and soft checks at least any physical attacker but im fine if it stays where it is
Arbok seems effective against stall in that replay and i trust Tsunami so i guess it goes to D/C-
Doublade is simply the best spinblocker in the tier and an amazing mon in general and it should go to A+
GlassGlaceon
My heart has now been set on love
um hello why are we even doubting scyther...
I'm totally supporting the scythes for B-Rank as this thing is fantastic in the current metagame imo. I've had experience with both the SD and Choice Scarf sets, and I've enjoyed both immensely.
On the Choice Scarf Set: Fantastic synergy with specs lanturn is enough for me
On the SD Se--ok, I'll talk about the Scarf set a bit more. this thing is a fantastic revenge killer, outspeeding a majority of the tier while also being speedy enough to run a +Atk nature, which still outspeeds +1 Vivillon, Scarf Rotom-C, +1 Sharpedo/yanmega, and kills them all with it's respective STAB. Another pro about scyther is that it can turn out of all of it's checks/counters with u-turn, unlike volt switchers, but that's a given. like yanmega, having decent bulk and a 4x resistance to hitmonthing's mach punch is also a pro, letting it clean weakened teams pretty easily
Actually on the SD Set: Um, first of all, more fantastic synergy with specs lanturn. Great speed combined with good bulk with eviolite and a form of reliable recovery if you choose makes scyther a formidable sweeper, and can bust holes in defensive teams. It also muscles it's way through doublade, 2HKOing with a +2 Knock off while doublade can't kill it in return, which is very nice
Scyther for B-rank
(would write more but on phone w/e)
I'm totally supporting the scythes for B-Rank as this thing is fantastic in the current metagame imo. I've had experience with both the SD and Choice Scarf sets, and I've enjoyed both immensely.
On the Choice Scarf Set: Fantastic synergy with specs lanturn is enough for me
On the SD Se--ok, I'll talk about the Scarf set a bit more. this thing is a fantastic revenge killer, outspeeding a majority of the tier while also being speedy enough to run a +Atk nature, which still outspeeds +1 Vivillon, Scarf Rotom-C, +1 Sharpedo/yanmega, and kills them all with it's respective STAB. Another pro about scyther is that it can turn out of all of it's checks/counters with u-turn, unlike volt switchers, but that's a given. like yanmega, having decent bulk and a 4x resistance to hitmonthing's mach punch is also a pro, letting it clean weakened teams pretty easily
Actually on the SD Set: Um, first of all, more fantastic synergy with specs lanturn. Great speed combined with good bulk with eviolite and a form of reliable recovery if you choose makes scyther a formidable sweeper, and can bust holes in defensive teams. It also muscles it's way through doublade, 2HKOing with a +2 Knock off while doublade can't kill it in return, which is very nice
Scyther for B-rank
(would write more but on phone w/e)
I agree that Gallade should drop to B+, as it seems to be outshined at any roll that it wants to perform, although I disagree about bulk up being the only niche, swords dance also seperates it from other fighting-types in the tier, and both sets break stall pretty well. However Gallade is pretty underwhelming this gen, at least in my experience, the tier is full of powerful flying types, as well as some pretty good Fairy-types which don't really care about Gallade.
I agree with Sharpedo moving to S rank as it is one of the best win conditions for offensive teams, and it actually has quite a few options to get around supposed counters.
Gligar to A- cause yeah
Alright, time for updates.
Once again i think that B- is getting a bit overfilled, so i'd like to see some talk about fixing that up a bit (for example maybe adding extra mons to C+ if they really aren't *that* viable).
I'd personally like to see some discussion on Emboar and Cobalion's placements on the rankings, as both were brought up on irc for demotion. I'd like to hear some thoughts on those two.
Sharpedo up to S rank
Gligar up to A- rank
Gallade down to B+ rank
Doublade up to A+ rank
Arbok added to C- rank
Omastar moved up to B- rank
Scyther added to B- rank
Gligar up to A- rank
Gallade down to B+ rank
Doublade up to A+ rank
Arbok added to C- rank
Omastar moved up to B- rank
Scyther added to B- rank
Once again i think that B- is getting a bit overfilled, so i'd like to see some talk about fixing that up a bit (for example maybe adding extra mons to C+ if they really aren't *that* viable).
I'd personally like to see some discussion on Emboar and Cobalion's placements on the rankings, as both were brought up on irc for demotion. I'd like to hear some thoughts on those two.
Linoone: D nomination
Emboar: A (mixed set walks all over stall, can leave holes for its teammates to sweep, has priority to pluck off weakened offensive threats, can be a potent revenge killer with Scarf)
Emboar: A (mixed set walks all over stall, can leave holes for its teammates to sweep, has priority to pluck off weakened offensive threats, can be a potent revenge killer with Scarf)
Oh god B-, looks like I should start doing something.
Golbat --> C+: To be honest this Bat isn't very good, as it's almost completely outclassed by it's cousin Gligar. Hell, it has better special bulk by a marginal amount but realistically that doesn't even matter:
252+ SpA Slowking Scald vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Gligar: 228-270 (68.2 - 80.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Slowking Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Golbat: 228-270 (64.4 - 76.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Statwise, it's not beating Gligar any time soon, in physical bulk the difference is massive, however is special bulk the difference is very minimal. Even though Golbat's abilities is arguably better (Hyper Cutter/Sand Veil VS Inner Focus/Infiltrator) for the most part it usually never makes a difference. One of the ONLY things I can think of Golbat is that it can beat Hitmonlee without losing it's Eviolite, but in return it loses a LOT of bulk. Feel free to argue, but I honestly don't see much reason to use this over Gligar, other than something like your team has problems with Ice/Water Types, but again that's situational.
Barbaracle --> B: This thing is so underrated, but I think that the meta-game is favouring it a bit. There's a pretty big lack of priority in RU (From what I've seen) making it ridiculously easy for Barbaracle to take advantage of Focus Sash, or White Herb. Even if you can OHKO Barbaracle it may hold a Sash (Insanely underrated but is useful for the most part), set up, and begin to disassemble your team. There is nothing switching into a +2 Stone Edge/Razor Shell (Tough Claws), even Doublade and a fully defensive Alomamola have a ~30% chance to get 2HKO'd without any prior damage.
I'll edit this post later or something.
Golbat --> C+: To be honest this Bat isn't very good, as it's almost completely outclassed by it's cousin Gligar. Hell, it has better special bulk by a marginal amount but realistically that doesn't even matter:
252+ SpA Slowking Scald vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Gligar: 228-270 (68.2 - 80.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Slowking Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Golbat: 228-270 (64.4 - 76.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Statwise, it's not beating Gligar any time soon, in physical bulk the difference is massive, however is special bulk the difference is very minimal. Even though Golbat's abilities is arguably better (Hyper Cutter/Sand Veil VS Inner Focus/Infiltrator) for the most part it usually never makes a difference. One of the ONLY things I can think of Golbat is that it can beat Hitmonlee without losing it's Eviolite, but in return it loses a LOT of bulk. Feel free to argue, but I honestly don't see much reason to use this over Gligar, other than something like your team has problems with Ice/Water Types, but again that's situational.
Barbaracle --> B: This thing is so underrated, but I think that the meta-game is favouring it a bit. There's a pretty big lack of priority in RU (From what I've seen) making it ridiculously easy for Barbaracle to take advantage of Focus Sash, or White Herb. Even if you can OHKO Barbaracle it may hold a Sash (Insanely underrated but is useful for the most part), set up, and begin to disassemble your team. There is nothing switching into a +2 Stone Edge/Razor Shell (Tough Claws), even Doublade and a fully defensive Alomamola have a ~30% chance to get 2HKO'd without any prior damage.
I'll edit this post later or something.
If we want to clear out B-, I suggest moving Hitmontop, Scyther, and Whimsicott down to the C ranks.
Hitmontop is way too predictable, and there are way too many common Pokemon that get a free switch in on it, making Hitmontop's team lose momentum. Yanmega, Doublade, Braviary, and Moltres all demolish Hitmontop and make it hard for it to spin. The lack of reliable recovery is also kind of tough for Hitmontop to overcome, so it should probably be in C+ for these reasons.
Scyther has always been a mediocre mon imo. I'm not sure why it's in the B ranks. It should be mid C for obvious reasons imo, unless I'm missing something.
Whimsicott definitely got better this gen, but I feel that it belongs in C+ rather than B-. It struggles with a lot of the top Pokemon in the tier and there's been a lot of Amoonguss on the ladder, so Whimsicott isn't that effective in this meta.
EDIT galbia: Foresight is really predictable though and then you can just bring in a Flying mon like the ones mentioned above to force it out. I feel like it's kind of unreliable and not very effective when you can see it coming.
Hitmontop is way too predictable, and there are way too many common Pokemon that get a free switch in on it, making Hitmontop's team lose momentum. Yanmega, Doublade, Braviary, and Moltres all demolish Hitmontop and make it hard for it to spin. The lack of reliable recovery is also kind of tough for Hitmontop to overcome, so it should probably be in C+ for these reasons.
Scyther has always been a mediocre mon imo. I'm not sure why it's in the B ranks. It should be mid C for obvious reasons imo, unless I'm missing something.
Whimsicott definitely got better this gen, but I feel that it belongs in C+ rather than B-. It struggles with a lot of the top Pokemon in the tier and there's been a lot of Amoonguss on the ladder, so Whimsicott isn't that effective in this meta.
EDIT galbia: Foresight is really predictable though and then you can just bring in a Flying mon like the ones mentioned above to force it out. I feel like it's kind of unreliable and not very effective when you can see it coming.
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I agree with all those Pokemon moving down but Hitmontop. Hitmontop commonly carries foresight (all tops should) which guarantees the spin and lets it do around 30-40 to Doublade. He also has a free moveslot assuming Foresight/Spin/CC and can feasibily run stone edge/rock slide to hit those on the switch. It is not a great pokemon by any means but it is solid overall and being the only viable defensive spinner is certainly enough for b-.
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