Mediocre-Mons (VENOMOTH BANNED!)

[Dogfish44]

Floette has personally never worked in my testing (It seemed to be one-shot by everything, and I think I ran into more physical Nidoqueen than I thought would ever exist), and I can't imagine it doing much better now that we have a ban on Kingdra. If I wanted a Special Tank, I'd actually rather go with the Lickitung I mentioned earlier. That said, whatever floats your proverbial boat.

 

[warriorman222]

Kingdra isn't banned yet i just swept 5 teams with it what?

gg meta

 

[EpicBudderCraft1]

Approved by Arcticblast, Hollywood and The Immortal

credit Banner: Agous

This Metagame bans all Pokemon with a Base Stat of Base 100 or higher. This means that with relatively low stats you can shine is this metagame. 95 Speed is a really high speed tier, 90 Defenses are above average and you can easily sweep with 90 Attacking Stats. It also equalizes potential as nothing is particularly outstanding, as all outstanding Pokemon have been eliminated.

List of Pokemon:

Banlist:

Threatlist (Put in Pokemon with sets and they might get in the threatlist):
[Coming Later]
Offensive:
Defensive:
Supportive:

Viability Ranking

Replays (Good replays will be put in here):
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mirageisland-mediocremons-178
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mirageisland-mediocremons-179
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mediocremons-136812320

Playable on the Main Server!

 

[Pikachuun]

.

So what is your reply to the op exactly?

Well in address to the Kingdra ban, it had a variety of sets, and no counters whatsoever (except for a few niche ones, something I'm probably missing, and Clefable, which...). I fully support it getting the boot.

 

[xJownage]

please, somebody make a new banner. since kingdra is banned it is kinda irrelevant.

Snaquaza the op needs a major update and a general overhaul. Just make it more official, add kingdra to the banlist, add the viability rankings in a spoiler, and add some info on good pokes and strategies. just simple stuff on the latter.

 

[Geopolitics]

I'm not sure if anybody has mentioned this yet but:

Floette @ Eviolite
Ability: Flower Veil/Symbiosis
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Moonblast/Psychic/HP Fire
- Toxic
---
With base 98 special defense and Eviolite, Floette is a great special wall. Zero attack IVs are only to lower confusion damage. The set itself is pretty explanatory, using Toxic for gradual damage and using Wish/Protect to heal off damage or heal teammates. Moonblast is the preferred attack for STAB, but with Pokemon like Nidoqueen, Venomoth, and Golbat running rampant in the meta, Psychic is a good choice as well. Finally, HP Fire is to deal with Steel types like Ferroseed and Magnemite that also pose threats to Floette.
---
I'm godawful at writing analyses or whatever so the above probably doesn't make sense xD Not sure if HP Fire would be useful but Moonblast and Psychic have both been beneficial
TL;DR it's a great special wall

I've tried Floette and it's honestly a great mon but will probably drop in usage due to Kingdra getting the boot.

Also, Sun offense is great in the tier, looking forward to playing more of it :]

 

[Snaquaza]

There will be an official tournament in 15 minutes on Pokemon Showdown, Other Metas Room!

 

[Crystalzee]

Could Eviolite Staryu be a reliable Spinner?

It's something I've been wanting to test out...

HP is definitely a problem.

 

[President Ryland]

Very awesome tier! made a nice little hail team.

 

[Uselesscrab]

Hide

[09:14:19] +Leafshield: So I think Parasect has a little bit of potential in mediocremons
[09:14:36] +Leafshield: high base attack, good bulk, good support moves
[09:14:44] +Leafshield: just slow with dat fire weakness
[09:17:10] +AWailOfATail: !weakness parasect
Parasect is weak to: Bug, Fire, Flying, Ice, Poison, Rock (not counting abilities).
[09:17:20] +Leafshield: and there's that
[09:17:21] Can-Eh-Dian: you'll need a flying resist
[09:17:25] +Leafshield: hich I forgot was a thing
[09:17:26] Can-Eh-Dian: how about the key?
[09:17:26] +Leafshield: :/
[09:17:34] +Leafshield: klefki sounds good actually
[09:17:36] +Uselesscrab: let's see
[09:17:41] +Uselesscrab: quagsire deals with rock and fire
[09:17:47] +AWailOfATail: so a paraklefsire core
[09:17:48] +Uselesscrab: you need something for bug, flying, ice and poison
[09:17:56] +Leafshield: Klefki can wall poison bug flying and ice
[09:17:59] +Uselesscrab: yeah
[09:18:00] +AWailOfATail: ^
[09:18:06] Can-Eh-Dian: new meta-defining core
[09:18:06] +Leafshield: adds a fire weakness
[09:18:11] +Leafshield: but Quag can handle it
[09:18:15] +AWailOfATail: ^
[09:18:20] +Leafshield: and Parasect double resists ground
[09:18:25] +Leafshield: and grass
[09:18:27] +Uselesscrab: quagkisect

Anyway, I haven't actually made a team yet for this meta (I need to get on that), but Parasect-Klefki-Quagsire is a core usable in this meta with excellent type synergy. Parasect's Fire and Rock weaknesses are covered by Quagsire, and it covers Klefki's Ground weakness. Klefki covers Parasect's Bug, Ice, Poison, and Rock weaknesses, and its Fire weakness is covered by Quagsire. Quagsire's Grass weakness is easily dealt with by either of the other two members of the core.

Leafshield, AWailOfATail, and Can-Eh-Dian can elaborate and provide movesets since they have actually played the meta.

 

[Geopolitics]

Just thought I'd share a set with you all that I've been using on Sun Offense teams :]

Charmeleon @ Leftovers
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Fire Blast
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Flame Charge

---------

Charmeleon serves as a potent Special Sweeper in the sun. With a respectable base 80 SpAtk and Speed, it can really dent walls with Sun Boosted Fire Blasts. In addition to being a great Wallbreaker, it can also serve as a great cleaner. With a late game Flame Charge, it can outspeed things such as Gabite and Rotom. HP Grass is for Quagsire, with Dragon Pulse as a secondary attacking option if your foe resists Fire Blast.

 

[Roxer]

Hide

[09:14:19] +Leafshield: So I think Parasect has a little bit of potential in mediocremons
[09:14:36] +Leafshield: high base attack, good bulk, good support moves
[09:14:44] +Leafshield: just slow with dat fire weakness
[09:17:10] +AWailOfATail: !weakness parasect
Parasect is weak to: Bug, Fire, Flying, Ice, Poison, Rock (not counting abilities).
[09:17:20] +Leafshield: and there's that
[09:17:21] Can-Eh-Dian: you'll need a flying resist
[09:17:25] +Leafshield: hich I forgot was a thing
[09:17:26] Can-Eh-Dian: how about the key?
[09:17:26] +Leafshield: :/
[09:17:34] +Leafshield: klefki sounds good actually
[09:17:36] +Uselesscrab: let's see
[09:17:41] +Uselesscrab: quagsire deals with rock and fire
[09:17:47] +AWailOfATail: so a paraklefsire core
[09:17:48] +Uselesscrab: you need something for bug, flying, ice and poison
[09:17:56] +Leafshield: Klefki can wall poison bug flying and ice
[09:17:59] +Uselesscrab: yeah
[09:18:00] +AWailOfATail: ^
[09:18:06] Can-Eh-Dian: new meta-defining core
[09:18:06] +Leafshield: adds a fire weakness
[09:18:11] +Leafshield: but Quag can handle it
[09:18:15] +AWailOfATail: ^
[09:18:20] +Leafshield: and Parasect double resists ground
[09:18:25] +Leafshield: and grass
[09:18:27] +Uselesscrab: quagkisect

Anyway, I haven't actually made a team yet for this meta (I need to get on that), but Parasect-Klefki-Quagsire is a core usable in this meta with excellent type synergy. Parasect's Fire and Rock weaknesses are covered by Quagsire, and it covers Klefki's Ground weakness. Klefki covers Parasect's Bug, Ice, Poison, and Rock weaknesses, and its Fire weakness is covered by Quagsire. Quagsire's Grass weakness is easily dealt with by either of the other two members of the core.

Leafshield, AWailOfATail, and Can-Eh-Dian can elaborate and provide movesets since they have actually played the meta.

Wouldn't Ferroseed + Klefki + Quagsire work the same way? Or am I going crazy?

 

[Evan.]

Wouldn't Ferroseed + Klefki + Quagsire work the same way? Or am I going crazy?

With Ferroseed you lose the 4x resist to ground and you get another fighting weakness, so as a synergy core Parasect works better. (and cuz parasect haz mur sweg)

 

[Leafshield]

Powerful core imo :]

I really feel like Quag and Klefki's sets come naturally to most since they are already commonly used in the metagame. Quag would run his usual SpDef set and Klefki will run either Phys. Defensive Calm Mind or standard utility with Defense investment to take brave birds better from Golbat and Murkrow. What I feel like would be most problematic for those trying the core out would be what set to run on Parasect, since as said before, no one uses that thing lol.

Parasect has a beefy base 95 Attack and respectable 60/80/80 bulk that lets it wall the things that hit it neutrally on the side you choose to invest on fairly easily (said typings can be few and far inbetween lmao). It double resists Grass and Ground, and resists Electric in tandem with being immune to Water, so you can guess you'd like to make it more physically defensive, since the typings it would like to wall would be leaning on special due to its resistances and taking neutral physical hits helps this core a lot.

As for moves, three are pretty much necessary imho. Parasect gets one of the best sleeping moves in the game in Spore, which allows it to put anything that isn't a grass type or something else immune to it via ability to sleep, which basically takes it out of the match. Parasect also needs Synthesis for his job as a wall to function, since he's not going to be switching in on Basculins or Quagsires for Dry Skin every time. I also think Knock off is a necessity, since Parasect has a nice base attack that can dent Xatu on the switch in as well as bothersome Grass Types (most of which in this tier utilize Eviolite) who require their item to function as walls.

The last slot is up to your team composition. Some recommendations I've heard are Aromatherapy and Stun Spore, all of which are great options. You can also use things like Seed Bomb, which royally dents the water types Parasect switches into, or Leech Seed for passive recovery. I would say Aromatherapy is the best in the last slot for the core since it's bothered by burns from Sableye.

Parasect @ Leftovers
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed / Impish Nature
- Spore
- Knock Off
- Synthesis
- Aromatherapy / Stun Spore / Leech Seed / Seed Bomb (Ranked by effectiveness imo.)

 

[Spindash65]

Quilava is seriously underated. with access to the most powerful drawback free fire type move of all time, surprising bulk for a fire type, and its ability blaze bringing ultimate pain to anyone who fails to ko him, leaving him with less than 1/3 hp, boosting flamethrower to effective bp 135 and fireblast to effective 165 bp, he can deal major damage in the right hands. I'd say he should at least make C tier, as he certainly earns a niche with such an overwhelming stab move.

 

[Roxer]

With Ferroseed you lose the 4x resist to ground and you get another fighting weakness, so as a synergy core Parasect works better. (and cuz parasect haz mur sweg)

Makes sense, I was using Klefki + Ferroseed + Quagmiresire on my stall team, that changes today :D

 

[skies]

Could Eviolite Staryu be a reliable Spinner?

It's something I've been wanting to test out...

HP is definitely a problem.

I tested this for a bit, it really sucked)=

Also, we're suspecting Venomoth now in case nobody updated the thread n__n.

 

[Evan.]

I tested this for a bit, it really sucked)=

Also, we're suspecting Venomoth now in case nobody updated the thread n__n.

I literally could not like this fast enough ^.^ FUK U MOTH

 

[Leafshield]

Venomoth is a powerhouse. It's base speed and Special Attack compounded by decent bulk allow it to set up Quiver Dances with relative ease. It can eliminate potential checks with Sleep Powder and its Bug Buzzes hit insanely hard due to Tinted Lens. If it isn't enough for it to be an amazing sweeper in its own right, it has the ability to Baton Pass Quiver Dances to its teammates, allowing monsters like Nidoqueen and Xatu to become nigh unstoppable threats. It also has amazing defensive abilities it could use over Tinted Lens in Wonder Skin (making things like WoW and TWave almost impossible to hit) and Shield Dust (which removes moves like Scald and the like as ways to wear it down.)

I really gotta go with ban here. It's just too versatile and strong for the metagame.

 

[Roxer]

Venomoth has 90 SpAtk and 90 Spe backed up by Quiver Dance and awesome abilities like Wonder Skin and Tinted Lens. It can easily sweep through any team that doesn't have Taunt, and after it's done killing shit it can just use Baton Pass to make something else much stronger. Not only that but because of its high speed, it's easy to get a Sleep Powder on something then proceed to setup and sweep/bpass.
ban pls.

 

[Dogfish44]

I'm cautious towards a ban on Venomoth - the most threatening variant is the Baton Pass QD Set, which cen be resolved either by a ban on QD (This maintains Venomoth as a threat), or on just the combination of QD and BP. I'd rather hit QD Directly, and I don't think hitting Venomoth will accomplish that.

 

[Geopolitics]

I would rather not ban Venomoth because it can be easily shut down by things like Scarf Rotom, Rocks, and other various elec users. Also, sun Offense crushes this bug. There's only 1 set to Venomoth, so I wouldn't support the ban of it. It's not overhwhelmingly versatile.

 

[xJownage]

I'm cautious towards a ban on Venomoth - the most threatening variant is the Baton Pass QD Set, which cen be resolved either by a ban on QD (This maintains Venomoth as a threat), or on just the combination of QD and BP. I'd rather hit QD Directly, and I don't think hitting Venomoth will accomplish that.

quiver dance isint broken on veno, its its ability to pass its boosts in the face of a counter that breaks it.
ban quiver pass, not dance.

 

[Red Cat]

I'm cautious towards a ban on Venomoth - the most threatening variant is the Baton Pass QD Set, which cen be resolved either by a ban on QD (This maintains Venomoth as a threat), or on just the combination of QD and BP. I'd rather hit QD Directly, and I don't think hitting Venomoth will accomplish that.

We talked about suspecting Quiver Dance and / or Baton Pass and came to the conclusion that there is not enough evidence right now that either of these are broken. Most of us on the council and on this thread think that Venomoth is easily the best abuser of Quiver Dance and that the combination of Quiver Dance + Sleep Powder + Baton Pass + Tinted Lens makes Venomoth broken. If Venomoth gets banned and there is evidence that Quiver Dance passing is still broken, we may suspect those moves and consider unbanning Venomoth, but right now we only have enough evidence to say that Venomoth itself might be broken, so we are suspecting Venomoth.

I would rather not ban Venomoth because it can be easily shut down by things like Scarf Rotom, Rocks, and other various elec users. Also, sun Offense crushes this bug. There's only 1 set to Venomoth, so I wouldn't support the ban of it. It's not overhwhelmingly versatile.

252 SpA Rotom Thunderbolt vs. +1 4 HP / 0 SpD Venomoth: 102-120 (36.1 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Tinted Lens Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rotom: 302-356 (125.3 - 147.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I don't know how you came to the conclusion that Scarf Rotom stops Venomoth.

 

[Evan.]

I vote 100% to Ban the hell moth. The main problem with Venomoth is not itself, but with the sweeping capabilities that it allows it's entire team. The combination of QuiverPass allows certain teammates (Looking at you Queen) to sweep entire teams if their counters are even slightly weakened. Not to mention that it can sweep unprepared teams by itself with 90/90 offensive stats ad Tinted Lens. I feel like Venomoth is overcentrallizng the meta right now and it forces every team to run a dedicated counter such as Unaware Quag or Haze Golbat. To put it bluntly, Venomoth is a great poke, and we're talking about a tier called Mediocremons. Ban.