Mediocre-Mons (VENOMOTH BANNED!)

[Evan.]

Umm is there any reason that Parasect is in D-Rank? I think Parasect is deserving of B-Rank as it has a very good niche in the meta as either a physical or special wall. I've been using Parasect a lot in the Quagkisect core and I've found that it is a very good defensive poke who can dish out damage as well with one of the highest attack stats in the tier. Parasect also gets two of the best moves in the game in Spore and Knock Off. Though the two 4x weakness look unappealing, Parasect actually has a decent defensive typing with resistances to key attacking types like Grass, Fighting, Ground, and Electric as well as a very handy immunity to water. This also allows it to be a full stop to one of the best defensive pokes in the tier: Quagsire.

4 Atk Parasect Seed Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Quagsire: 384-456 (97.4 - 115.7%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

Overall, Parasect is one of the better defensive pokemon in the tier and is deserving of B-Rank imo.

 

[Ranger Mike]

Umm is there any reason that Parasect is in D-Rank? I think Parasect is deserving of B-Rank as it has a very good niche in the meta as either a physical or special wall. I've been using Parasect a lot in the Quagkisect core and I've found that it is a very good defensive poke who can dish out damage as well with one of the highest attack stats in the tier. Parasect also gets two of the best moves in the game in Spore and Knock Off. Though the two 4x weakness look unappealing, Parasect actually has a decent defensive typing with resistances to key attacking types like Grass, Fighting, Ground, and Electric as well as a very handy immunity to water. This also allows it to be a full stop to one of the best defensive pokes in the tier: Quagsire.

4 Atk Parasect Seed Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Quagsire: 384-456 (97.4 - 115.7%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

Overall, Parasect is one of the better defensive pokemon in the tier and is deserving of B-Rank imo.

Ok the thing here is that it is all kinds of weak to fletchinder and sun is a pretty common play style I feel that parasect's only niche is in spore. I mean I want to see defensive calcs before I see that it can't Ohko quag with a seed Bomb at all times. It literally stops nothing in s rank and minimal thing in a rank. The water immunity and resistances are cool but imho even though I don't play stall parasect is hardly worth it.

 

[Red Cat]

Parasect has a lot of weaknesses to common attacks in this tier. Most Water types carry a move which hits Parasect for super effective damage, so it does not help at all against things like Swanna and Quilfish. Quagsire can cripple Parasect with Toxic if Parasect tries to switch in. Looking through the viability rankings, I don't see much which Parasect walls. The success of the Parasect / Klefki / Quagsire core probably has more to do with the other two than Parasect. Parasect might deserve a C rank if you can show some good replays with it Can-Eh-Dian , but I have a hard time comparing it with the B rank Pokemon.

 

[Ranger Mike]

Guess what guys :) THE COUNCIL HAS DEEMED THAT VENOMOTH IS TO STRONG FOR THE METAGAME AND THEREFORE VENOMOTH IS NOW BANNED! NOW YOU NO LONGER HAVE TO RUN SLEEP TALK ON EVERYTHING!!!

 

[Evan.]

Guess what guys :) THE COUNCIL HAS DEEMED THAT VENOMOTH IS TO STRONG FOR THE METAGAME AND THEREFORE VENOMOTH IS NOW BANNED! NOW YOU NO LONGER HAVE TO RUN SLEEP TALK ON EVERYTHING!!!

Sorry abut big pic XD

 

[xJownage]

does masquerain even get sleep powder?

i just thought of something....mediocremons ubers. why? i like having names that are oxymorons.

 

[glock in my toyota]

I'm sitting at #4 on the ladder right now, and I must say, Venomoth wasn't THAT bad. I understand the reasoning behind the ban, but there were many ways around this thing. I'm fine with the ban though, I never used Venomoth anyway, so it just makes things slightly simpler when it comes to laddering.

I'd like to address the issue known as Klefki. I, personally, use Klefki on my team(lets be honest it's op). It spreads T-Waves with ease and is on every high ladder team. Your team pretty much has to be running a Xatu to have a fighting chance against a well built semi-stall team. Klefki/Sableye/Xatu is just such a ridiculous core. I use it, because it works, but in my honest opinion, Klefki needs to be banned. It sets up spikes, spreads Paralysis and cripples teams that are unprepared. Sableye, is also extremely powerful, with Utility in Knock Off, Will-O-Wisp, and Taunt, and reliable Priority Recovery. I personally believe that Sableye is not as OP as Klefki, and Sableye does not deserve a ban.

So please, Klefki is hurting the meta. Suspect it.

 

[Ranger Mike]

I'm sitting at #4 on the ladder right now, and I must say, Venomoth wasn't THAT bad. I understand the reasoning behind the ban, but there were many ways around this thing. I'm fine with the ban though, I never used Venomoth anyway, so it just makes things slightly simpler when it comes to laddering.

I'd like to address the issue known as Klefki. I, personally, use Klefki on my team(lets be honest it's op). It spreads T-Waves with ease and is on every high ladder team. Your team pretty much has to be running a Xatu to have a fighting chance against a well built semi-stall team. Klefki/Sableye/Xatu is just such a ridiculous core. I use it, because it works, but in my honest opinion, Klefki needs to be banned. It sets up spikes, spreads Paralysis and cripples teams that are unprepared. Sableye, is also extremely powerful, with Utility in Knock Off, Will-O-Wisp, and Taunt, and reliable Priority Recovery. I personally believe that Sableye is not as OP as Klefki, and Sableye does not deserve a ban.

So please, Klefki is hurting the meta. Suspect it.

Let's not get crazy folks, Klefki similarly to sableye is complete taunt bait. The thing is that Meowstic m does literally the same thing down in nu and it is no where near suspect worthy but we have some better and worse pokes. Klefki from my experiences hasn't run spikes it is just dual screens which is great but by no means ban worthy I guess I can report back after testing it on the ladder a little bit.

 

[senable]

I'm currently sitting at rank #1 and 2 on the ladder right now and speaking from experience I definitely agree with suspecting Klefki. I'm using a team of Xatu / Klefki / Nidoqueen / Sableye / Fletchinder / Abomasnow and the support that Klefki provides is ridiculous. Sure it can be taunted but prankster will ensure that Klefki will at least be able to make one move. You can even run mental herb on it to ensure you get another move after the taunt. Its strong defensive typing and ability allows it to spike stack or set up screens way too easily; it can take hits and provide support throughout the match. It can even run switcheroo to cripple its switch ins or a calm mind set, making it extremely unpredictable. Xatu is the only Pokemon in the tier (aside from Natu which is completely outclassed) that can stop Klefki from setting up Spikes. You pretty much have to run Nidoqueen or Xatu if you want to reliably deal with the it since it can use prankster Thunder Wave or Toxic to cripple everything else and spike up on them. In a tier called Mediocre-Mons, Klefki is not at all mediocre. Additionally, Klefki, similar to Venomoth, is also banned from UU. For these reasons I believe Klefki should be suspected next.

 

[pwii]

If Kingdra is supposed to be banned, why do I keep seeing people run it? Is it just the server hasn't updated yet?

 

[Ranger Mike]

If Kingdra is supposed to be banned, why do I keep seeing people run it? Is it just the server hasn't updated yet?

Well it's because like you said, the server hasn't restarted. Also I want to mention that without draining kiss which you should never run, it is worn down laughably easy.

 

[glock in my toyota]

I'm currently sitting at rank #1 and 2 on the ladder right now and speaking from experience I definitely agree with suspecting Klefki. I'm using a team of Xatu / Klefki / Nidoqueen / Sableye / Fletchinder / Abomasnow and the support that Klefki provides is ridiculous. Sure it can be taunted but prankster will ensure that Klefki will at least be able to make one move. You can even run mental herb on it to ensure you get another move after the taunt. Its strong defensive typing and ability allows it to spike stack or set up screens way too easily; it can take hits and provide support throughout the match. It can even run switcheroo to cripple its switch ins or a calm mind set, making it extremely unpredictable. Xatu is the only Pokemon in the tier (aside from Natu which is completely outclassed) that can stop Klefki from setting up Spikes. You pretty much have to run Nidoqueen or Xatu if you want to reliably deal with the it since it can use prankster Thunder Wave or Toxic to cripple everything else and spike up on them. In a tier called Mediocre-Mons, Klefki is not at all mediocre. Additionally, Klefki, similar to Venomoth, is also banned from UU. For these reasons I believe Klefki should be suspected next.

LOL Senable, I've been playing against you all day. Our teams are pretty much the same thing, but I run a Basculin over Fletchinder. I agree with your points, and thank you for supporting my argument.

 

[Mienfoo]

Slurpuff @ Assault Vest
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draining Kiss
- Flamethrower
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt / Dazzling Gleam / Surf / Energy Ball

Now, I recently used this set against a Kingdra and I know Kingdra is already banned, but


252+ SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Slurpuff: 201-237 (54.6 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Slurpuff: 110-130 (29.8 - 35.3%) -- 22.9% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Slurpuff: 196-232 (53.2 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

That is just the bulk of this thing. and Since I know Kingdra is banned I wanted to do some other calcs.

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoqueen Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Slurpuff: 307-367 (83.4 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoqueen Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Slurpuff: 160-188 (43.4 - 51%) -- 7.4% chance to 2HKO


252 SpA Life Orb Frogadier Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Slurpuff: 146-173 (39.6 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Xatu Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Slurpuff: 142-169 (38.5 - 45.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+2 252+ SpA Vivillon Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Slurpuff: 258-304 (70.1 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I could post more, but y'know. (sorry if someone already posted this AV Set)

 

[randythelame]

abomasnow doesnt seem bad

 

[glock in my toyota]

abomasnow doesnt seem bad

Scarf Abomasnow, in my opinion, is the 2nd best offensive pokemon in the tier, behind Nidoqueen (obviously). It picks off huge threats like Chatot, Xatu, Nidoqueen, and Zweilous with ease. Anything that doesn't resist Blizzard gets 2hkoed, hell, even Quagsire gets 2hkoed by Blizzard! Scarf Aboma works as an early game wall-breaker or a late game cleaner. Unprepared teams get completely mauled by Scarfed Blizzard/Giga Drain.

Abomasnow's main (and only) issue is that he is walled by Klefki, even if you run HP Fire, which I do, it is not a 2HKO, which means that you either have to switch out or you are taking a T-Wave, which (obviously), you don't want to do. No doubt in my mind, Abomasnow is an offensive Force to be reckoned with.

(Plus he can go Phys, Special, or Mixed but Special is best lol)

 

[EV]

50 / 85 / 55 / 65 / 65 / 90
Run Away / Flash Fire / Flame Body

I used this in a few matches yesterday and it did OK. I brought it up a few pages ago and since I meant to test it, I figured I'd report my findings.

I ran a Leftovers set with Flare Blitz, Wild Charge, Will-o-Wisp, and Morning Sun. Not the greatest coverage and without WoW it does nothing to Quagsire switch-ins, but it still has awesome Speed and a very usable Attack stat to hit certain common threats hard like Klefki, Abomasnow, Ferroseed, Golbat, Poliwrath, Parasect, and Vivillon. I'm curious to try a Scarf set to outspeed just about anything as long as the target is not running Scarf, plus it can revenge Vivillon at +1 (89 vs 90 Speed, HYPE.) Even with Venomoth gone, I wonder if a Safety Goggles set would do well to be a surefire check to Spore/Sleep Powder so it doesn't fear falling asleep when it needs to check certain things.

Keep in mind it can't OHKO most stuff with decent bulk even on a STAB super-effective hit, so if you need to take Klefki, Poli, or Golbat out, make sure they have taken some prior damage first. Its closest competition is probably Monferno and Combusken, but the extra Fighting STAB isn't really hitting things Pontya can't except Rock-types, and the only viable ones in MMons are Lunatone, Solrock, Pupitar, and Rhyhorn I think, and two of them aren't even weak to Fighting.

Monferno does have a leg up with Iron Fist Mach Punch and the ability to go mixed, however. 81 is a far cry from 90 Speed to be honest, but dual 78 attacks aren't terrible. Combusken has 85/85 attacks and a stupid bad Speed of 55, but as we all know, it runs Speed Boost to remedy that. They both can run Swords Dance, though, giving them another edge in setting up. But Ponyta should be used more for hard-hitting Flare Blitzes, surprise WoWs, and then healing itself when possible to strike again.

Other options for the fire pony include Double Kick or Low Kick, but as I stated earlier, Fighting coverage isn't really doing it any favors, because STAB Flare Blitz is stronger than them on SE hits unless Low Kick gets up to 100 base power (Rhyhorn, Dewgong, or Pupitar.) There's Quick Attack, but un-STABed won't do much. It also has Agility to outspeed everything, the unreliable Iron Tail (which hits every Rock-type hard), or even Sunny Day for powering up Flare Blitz and Morning Sun.

I ended up writing more than I expected, but to be honest Ponyta has its merits here. It's no top-tier archetype, but if I were to rank it on the viability chart, I would put it in a solid B rank. So give it a try! That is all.

 

[xJownage]

scarf abomasnow is so good. you think its typing is awful, but it does get some convenient resistances and with a scarf can revenge kill so well. 100% accurate blizzards, with giga drain and good coverage allow it to hit very hard and function as a great check to many common threats. The klefki weakness is noticable however, so xatu support is near necessary to keep off spikes. brick break, while gimmicky, is even a way around this if you really hate screens that much. Scarf aboma is a great poke on balanced teams as a bulky powerhouse that can wallbreak and clean at a moments notice. use it.

Raticate is one of the most underappreciated pokes in the entire tier. a decent base attack with basically the highest speed tier in the useful meta backed by a great movepool and useful abilities is a huge threat. I tried a gimmicky set of hustle choice band, but it hit so unfairly hard i didnt even care about not running sucker punch. the standard toxic orb guts hits so hard, but in my free time i love to use band guts and switch into status. banded guts facade is literally just unfair and so fun to abuse. too bad having to switch into status prevents it from being all that viable. hustle band is the set that has the most power, although raticate doesnt appreciate the band since it loves to u-turn out and hit something very hard on its way out.

 

[Norleras]

thoughts on Shedinja?It dies so easily to rocks and status,but it has gotten me a lot of cheap wins late-game when they run out of stuff to kill it.

 

[pwii]

Ok, dumping my team. It's got me to 1330 and climbing

Hide

Basculin @ Choice Band
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Superpower

This guy destroys pretty much everything. He outspeeds the entire unboosted metagame, and if the opponent has priority, he has faster priority in aqua jet. With CB you might think he's a revenge killer, but really he's more of a mid to late-game cleaner (depending on how many resists/priority users the opponent has.) Crunch and Superpower are there for coverage, but I haven't used them yet.

Xatu @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Trick
- Shadow Ball
- Roost

I'm surprised no one thought of trickscarf Xatu yet. Bring him in on a status move, and he hits pretty hard with Psychic. I usually trick the scarf away pretty early on which is why I have roost. I don't use it much however, so I'm open to suggestions.

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Recover
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Toxic

Yadda yadda ya. Only difference is he's specially defensive, which does a good job of walling most special attackers (including Nidoqueen if you're careful!)

Sableye @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp
- Knock Off
- Taunt

Dedicated physical wall. The 4 EVs in speed are for outspeeding other Sableye for the taunt, which is crucial. Knock off instead of Foul Play because in this meta Sableye actually has decent attack, and it 2HKOs non-defensive Xatu, who will always switch in to a predicted WoW/Taunt.

Raticate @ Life Orb
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Return
- Sucker Punch
- Swords Dance

LO + Hustle = Massive damage. U-turn is for early on when Raticate's counters are still alive. Sucker punch for priority (although not much except for Basculin will actually outspeed) and return for massive wins. If he got superpower, or even brick break I might switch U-turn out for that, but alas.

Nidoqueen (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Sludge Wave
- Earth Power
- Flamethrower

This is more of a hazard Queen, but I rarely get a chance to set up. Everything else is pretty much a given.

 

[senable]

Shedinja is a pretty fun Pokemon to use. I personally use a set of Baton Pass / Will-O-Wisp / Protect / Shadow Sneak. It can switch in on things that cannot touch it and start spreading status with wisp or baton pass out as they bring their check to it. Entry hazards are abundant in the tier though which means you have to run Xatu and/or a rapid spinner/defogger. Even then it can be difficult to keep them off your side of the field, especially when used on an offensive threat like Nidoqueen which can threaten to hit Xatu on the switch with a super-effective move. Hail from Abomasnow, which is becoming increasingly common, can also knock it out unless you run Safety Goggles (but then you'd have to forgo focus sash/lum). Its low speed and shallow movepool make it not too threatening to many teams. Pretty much every Pokemon in S Rank and A Rank, and most of B Rank have either a super effective move that can hit Shedinja or a status move. I'd say C Rank is a good fit for it. It is effective with the right support but inconsistent.

Scarf Abomasnow on the other hand is a complete monster. Even without a speed boosting nature, it still hits enough speed with a choice scarf to outspeed every unboosted Pokemon in the tier. There is very little that wants to switch in to a Blizzard and most things that can switch in to it such as water / fire / steel types can be taken care of with coverage moves such as Giga Drain, Earthquake, HP Fire. Scarf Abomasnow is also pretty unexpected; there are so many instances where I lead off with my Abomasnow and my opponent lead off with their Nidoqueen or Basculin only to get outsped and knocked out on the first turn, giving me a 6 - 5 lead. Hail from Abomasnow is useful for subsiding opposing weather and getting some chip damage on the opposing team; combine it with Stealth Rock and Spikes
and it can overwhelm teams very easily.

 

[Roxer]

Which quagsire set/spread is best? I've been running this to great sucess, want to know on you guys :3

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 72 Def / 184 SpD
Impish Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Recover
- Toxic
Very simple swt, Toxic stuff while watching out for Xatu and Steel-types, use Recover to heal off dmg and Waterfall + EQ for nice coverage except for Grass-types.

 

[Red Cat]

Which quagsire set/spread is best? I've been running this to great sucess, want to know on you guys :3

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 72 Def / 184 SpD
Impish Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Recover
- Toxic
Very simple swt, Toxic stuff while watching out for Xatu and Steel-types, use Recover to heal off dmg and Waterfall + EQ for nice coverage except for Grass-types.

I think Scald is better than Waterfall because usually the burn chance is more useful than a little extra power. Also, is there any reason you use those specific EVs instead of max SDef?

 

[pwii]

Which quagsire set/spread is best? I've been running this to great sucess, want to know on you guys :3

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 72 Def / 184 SpD
Impish Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Recover
- Toxic
Very simple swt, Toxic stuff while watching out for Xatu and Steel-types, use Recover to heal off dmg and Waterfall + EQ for nice coverage except for Grass-types.

I think scald is better than waterfall because burn >>>>> extra damage. Quagsire isn't going to be hitting very hard anyways. Also, what are your EVs for?

EDIT: lol Greninja'd

 

[Roxer]

I like Waterfall > Scald because when u accidentaly burn a wall and it has recovery. It just sucks.
The EVs i saw somewhere here on the thread and I don't remember what they are for :I
EDIT: Those EVs where for DD kingdra, so pointless lol, i'm switching them right away.
EDIT2: explain greninja joke pls

 

[pwii]

Greninja'd = Ninja'd = Someone posted what I was about to post before I did. I would also recommend going full Sdf so you can take on nidoqueen.