XY OU MGard Ruins Lives (Need teambuilding advice!)

[JMach]

Roll on RMT2... (CHANGES IN RED)

So this is a team I've been messing around with just over the past couple of weeks and it's a lot of fun to use. I haven't bothered laddering with it on an alt, and just used my main instead. As a result, it's taking about twice as long to ladder but it's broken 1400 pretty easily and is still climbing.

The team is basically comprised of a Fire/Water/Grass core and a Steel/Dragon/Fairy core. Dual steel typing actually allows for a bit more switching flexibility and, on the whole, switching is rarely an issue. I liked the idea of combining 2 type-cores and it's performed pretty respectably so far.

I can't really describe it but it feels as though something isn't quite right with the team. It's probably synergy issues, hence why I'm appealing to the forums, but hopefully you guys can help me spot any problems and suggest some better alternatives!


So without further ado...

THE TEAM

Sabi (Rust)

Excadrill @ Assault Vest
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 172 HP / 84 Atk / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
- Rapid Spin

In my opinion Excadrill pretty much ties with Latios in offensive teams for best hazard controller. Base 135 Atk slams hard as hell with minimal investment, so he makes a prime AV user. He may lack recovery, but he's usually only briefly coming in to either spin or sponge a special hit and fire off an almighty EQ. With full SpDef investment and an AV, Excadrill reaches 343 total SpDef. This is the best calc I can think of to demonstrate the resulting bulk but it says a lot:

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Flamethrower vs. 172 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Excadrill in Sun: 354-416 (87.6 - 102.9%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

If you're at full health, those aren't good odds for the Zard player by any means. And then...

84+ Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 404-476 (135.5 - 159.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Good stuff Excadrill. And given that Megazard Y is pretty much the scariest fire type in the metagame, you can see just how easy it is for Drill to shrug off most special hits from less threatening 'mons. Also, A Focus Miss from Megazard Y only does 50-60%. Yeah.

Anyway, EQ is a mini-nuke even with minimal investment, Iron Head is mainly there for things like Togekiss and Cube who might try to go for the KO not knowing you're vested. Rock Slide is for most flying types and Rapid Spin is your hazard control. Standard stuff really.


Shihai (Dominance)

Dragonite @ Choice Band
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Outrage
- ExtremeSpeed
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch

I'd heard that banded Dnite was good for quite sometime, but I had no idea just HOW good. I completely overlooked him, as the introduction of Fairies in gen VI kind of hampered his overall effectiveness. This team really doesn't struggle with removing Fairies though, so Dnite is perfect for either softening up unprepared teams at the beginning of the match or cleaning up big time in the late game. He also covers Excadrill's weaknesses nicely and vice-versa. Outrage is to go Hiroshima on near enough anything facing you down, Extremespeed is absolutely incredible for late game cleanup and revenge killing fast 'n' frail threats, Earthquake is as awesome as ever and has fantastic coverage, and Fire Punch has a good chance to OHKO a fully defensive Ferrothorn:

252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 328-388 (93.1 - 110.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

So yeah - that's some serious power, and a welcome addition to any offensively oriented team.


Kanashimi (Sorrow)

Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Calm Mind

And here she is - a mega I'd wanted to build a team around for ages. Mega Gardevoir is absolutely amazing. In terms of threat-factor and offensive presence, I'd say she's up there with the likes of Mega Medicham and Mega Heracross. Her job is pretty much to get up a boost or two and go Dovakhiin on whatever bulky threat or fast special attacker is facing you down from the other side of the field. Being able to hit through subs is just an added bonus. She perfectly fits with the goal of my team, which is basically to mount up offensive pressure and make my opponent #### themselves. Hyper Voice is obviously for the STAB Pixilate boost, serving to expand my nuclear armoury. Psyshock is there primarily for Mega Venusaur and Scolipede, but obviously heavily dents the blobs as well. Focus Blast is there for coverage and can smack Ferro around, and CM is there to make you hard as hell to deal with. Overall, this beauty is a pleasure to use. The panic after that first CM goes off is something I never get tired of seeing.


Shigeki (Irritation)

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed
- Knock Off Gyro Ball
- Thunder Wave

Ferrothorn is a standard choice and is there to set rocks and be perhaps the most annoying Pokemon ever. I don't have a great deal to write about him, although I'm considering switching out Lefties for Rocky Helmet. It gives me even more scope to punish physical attackers - something my team would appreciate - and with Leech Seed, KNOCK OFF OP (It still is) and TWave, Rocky Helmet might even drive my opponent insane or make them pass out via nervous breakdown, potentially leading to my victory through timer expiry. Seriously though, with all the wallbreaking prowess that can be found in this team, it's nice to have a change of pace that can check a load of my team's worst nightmares and respond with extreme irritation. SR is there because hazards are mandatory in today's metagame, Leech Seed is for awesome recovery (especially with Lefties, although let me know if Rocky Helmet would function as well. I'm inclined to think it would), Knock Off is there because it's the best move in the game (It still is) and Thunder Wave is there as an out vs some setup sweepers / to be annoying and make Dnite and MGard's jobs especially easy.

For the time being, I've decided to switch out Knock Off for Gyro Ball, as it prevents Ferro being used as setup fodder vs things like DDancers or even opposing MGards. Knock Off is amazing and I'll miss being an annoying POS but STAB Gyro hits pretty hard. I may already have T-Wave to remedy setup but I feel the extra damage could be invaluable. If I don't use Gyro that much I may end up switching back to Knock Off, but I'll have to see in time.

Jiyū (Freedom)

Talonflame @ Leftovers
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Brave Bird
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roost
- Bulk Up

This is probably one of the most underrated sets atm, and with proper team support it can be an absolute nightmare to deal with. Fully SpDef invested Talonflame can take even some S/E hits well enough to set up on, especially as roost removes Flying type for a turn. This forces your opponent to predict in a lot of cases, which, in the event of a misprediction, can either lead to you successfully recovering off 50% of damage, you burning their 'mon, or you getting up a free Bulk Up. What makes this set work so well is it's ability to completely cripple common switch ins to Talonflame, and possibly even use them as setup bait: most notably Lando-T and Tyranitar. Rotom-W also won't appreciate the burn, especially with Rocks up on the field. Opposing TFlames also struggle with you after a Bulk Up or two. This set can really mess with your opponent's heads and swing momentum in your favour. Overall, it's easily one of my favourite sets this gen. Brave Bird is there for all the things, Will-o-Wisp is there to cripple arrogant physical attackers who think they're beast enough to take on the almighty blird, Roost is there for OP priority recovery and Bulk Up is there to make your opponent say "wtf" before they hang themselves. This Talonflame can easily switch in on strong fire or ground attacks that heavily pressure Excadrill, synergy that's accentuated by the fact that it'll often need to come in just after Drill has got off a spin, leaving the field hazard free. This is something TFlame ABSOLUTELY requires.


Gurēsu (Grace)

Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Icy Wind
- Hidden Power [Flying] Surf Scald

And finally, another scary, scary, scary threat. In the current metagame, alongside Pokemon like Terrakion, Keldeo is one of the masters of revenge killing and mounting offensive pressure on the opponent. Capable of removing half the tier with a godlike Specs Hydro Pump, and eliminating steel types with a swift Secret Sword, Keldeo has paved the way for my team to sweep time and time again. DNite often needs Steel types removed for a mid-late game Outrage sweep, and Keldeo helps with this massively. Forcing switches is Keldeo's specialty, and with hazards up on their side of the field, the enemy's team often puts itself in a position where it really doesn't have the bulk left to deal with the other attackers on my team. Hydro Pump is there for more nuclear genocide, Secret Sword is there for excellent coverage and quick threat removal, Icy Wind is there for quad weaks and occasional speed drop KOs, and HP Flying is there for things like Mega Venu and Breloom, and hits surprisingly hard with Specs. We all know how hard Specs Keldeo can be to deal with at the best of times, and in an offensive team such as this she's really been standing out.

Surf Scald added for reliability and burn hax. HP flying didn't seem necessary as it only really hit Venu, which isn't a threat to my team, and Breloom, which gets OHKO'd by Icy Wind, although may need to be played around to some degree if Keldeo isn't already in. Scald will be a far superior options in those to-the-wire situations I can't afford to miss in.

(Surf changed to Scald as the power drop is barely noticeable and discourages Azu switch-ins etc...)


So yeah, that's my team! As I said, it's great fun to use and it's consistently been doing a really good job BUT it just doesn't quite feel complete and I can't put my finger on it. Feel free to use it and / or make suggestions etc. I'm really keen to get this team performing at well as it possibly can and massively appreciate all help I receive.

Thanks a lot guys :)

IMPORT BELOW

Excadrill (F) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Mold Breaker
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 172 HP / 84 Atk / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
- Rapid Spin

Dragonite (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Outrage
- ExtremeSpeed
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch

Gardevoir (F) @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Calm Mind

Talonflame (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Brave Bird
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roost
- Bulk Up

Ferrothorn (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Thunder Wave

Keldeo-Resolute @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Icy Wind
- Surf

ENJOY!

 

[Pikachu42]

Cool team, the only thing I suggest is Scald over Hydro Pump as it can spread burn which is cool and also has better accuracy, at the cost of some extra power.

 

[JMach]

Cool team, the only thing I suggest is Scald over Hydro Pump as it can spread burn which is cool and also has better accuracy, at the cost of some extra power.

Thanks :) I may give this a try, and did briefly consider it, but the sheer power of Hydro Pump is something I feel my team would somewhat miss. As my team pretty much functions on keeping pressure on my opponent, I'm not sure the power drop from HP to Scald is worth possible burn spreading, especially when TFlame can spread burns fairly easily.

 

[WideTomato]

I would suggest running scald (or even surf considering talon already spreads burn) over either hp flying or icy wind, as having a more reliable water type move is god sent. And as your team does not really struggle with mvenu, dropping hp flying would not be too bad for the team.

 

[Fortune]

Hey! I did some a little bit of laddering with your team and I must say, it's very solid. I've actually been wanting to try out BandNite recently too, so it works out.

The only real problem is that apart from the 2 priority moves, the team doesn't have very much speed. I would recommend using ScarfDrill instead of your AV set (which is still cool, btw).

Excadrill @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide

The only reason you listed for using AV Exca was to take out Zard Y, which is kind of pointless when it is outclassed by this set in that regard. All you have to do is press Rock Slide. No need for risking an OHKO.

Edit: If you try this suggestion and still would like a better hazard remover that checks Zard Y, I would suggest trying Lati@s.

 

[JMach]

Hey! I did some a little bit of laddering with your team and I must say, it's very solid. I've actually been wanting to try out BandNite recently too, so it works out.

The only real problem is that apart from the 2 priority moves, the team doesn't have very much speed. I would recommend using ScarfDrill instead of your AV set (which is still cool, btw).

Excadrill @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide

The only reason you listed for using AV Exca was to take out Zard Y, which is kind of pointless when it is outclassed by this set in that regard. All you have to do is press Rock Slide. No need for risking an OHKO.

Edit: If you try this suggestion and still would like a better hazard remover that checks Zard Y, I would suggest trying Lati@s.

Hiya, thanks for the feedback :) I'm glad the team's been working for you.

You know, it's funny you should make that suggestion because it was actually a toss up between AV and Scarf. This was in early stages of teambuilding when the only offensive pokes I'd decided on were MegaGard and Keldeo, neither of which are weak to rocks. As a result I was weighing up whether or not to bother with rapid spin. In the end, I wanted the power that Dnite and TFlame provide and they need rocks off the field so badly. I didn't want to run scarf rapid spin because the momentum loss put me off, but it might actually be a viable alternative.

In my defence, Zard Y isn't the only threat that AV Drill takes on, it's merely the one capable of doing the most damage. As I stated, I only used that calc to show just how insane the bulk is with AV. I'm not sure I can easily fit Lati@s into my team... The synergy just isn't as good imo. I'll go on an alt and try out scarf drill. If the momentum loss is too great I'll probably end up changing it back, but if my team can still function appropriately I'll let you know :)

In terms of speed, I've never felt it was an issue. None of my offensive 'mons are particularly slow, even if they're not base 100, and they're all more than capable of taking a couple of hits. Any speed problems I've had whilst laddering were fairly well mitigated by TFlame and Dnite's priority. If it starts to become a problem higher up on the ladder though, I'll give it some deeper thought.


Scarf Drill is scary though, and it adds more revenge killing opportunities, surprise factor and offensive presence...



Thanks for the input!

 

[Eduardo2013]

I believe for it to be hidden power flying you must have at least 2 iv in attack correct me if I am wrong though. Overall solid team.

 

[Eduardo2013]

Hey! I did some a little bit of laddering with your team and I must say, it's very solid. I've actually been wanting to try out BandNite recently too, so it works out.

The only real problem is that apart from the 2 priority moves, the team doesn't have very much speed. I would recommend using ScarfDrill instead of your AV set (which is still cool, btw).

Excadrill @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide

The only reason you listed for using AV Exca was to take out Zard Y, which is kind of pointless when it is outclassed by this set in that regard. All you have to do is press Rock Slide. No need for risking an OHKO.

Edit: If you try this suggestion and still would like a better hazard remover that checks Zard Y, I would suggest trying Lati@s.

Wouldn't jolly nature help him outspeed more threats since I believe adamant nature only reaches 275 with scarf comes out to 412 speed which won't outspeed a lot of the common scarfers in the tier like terrakion which could some damage to the team if gardevoir is weakened along with ferrothorn. Just some suggestions but if he feels good with running adamant scarf I approve of that too.

 

[JMach]

I would suggest running scald (or even surf considering talon already spreads burn) over either hp flying or icy wind, as having a more reliable water type move is god sent. And as your team does not really struggle with mvenu, dropping hp flying would not be too bad for the team.

Thanks, I'll give Surf a try :) What would you recommend in place of HP Flying? It can nail Breloom on the switch, which was one of the main reasons I liked to keep it around, but I couldn't think of anything else worth replacing it with.

 

[Fortune]

Hiya, thanks for the feedback :) I'm glad the team's been working for you.

You know, it's funny you should make that suggestion because it was actually a toss up between AV and Scarf. This was in early stages of teambuilding when the only offensive pokes I'd decided on were MegaGard and Keldeo, neither of which are weak to rocks. As a result I was weighing up whether or not to bother with rapid spin. In the end, I wanted the power that Dnite and TFlame provide and they need rocks off the field so badly. I didn't want to run scarf rapid spin because the momentum loss put me off, but it might actually be a viable alternative.

In my defence, Zard Y isn't the only threat that AV Drill takes on, it's merely the one capable of doing the most damage. As I stated, I only used that calc to show just how insane the bulk is with AV. I'm not sure I can easily fit Lati@s into my team... The synergy just isn't as good imo. I'll go on an alt and try out scarf drill. If the momentum loss is too great I'll probably end up changing it back, but if my team can still function appropriately I'll let you know :)

Scarf Drill is scary though, and it adds more revenge killing opportunities, surprise factor and offensive presence...

Thanks for the input!

Yeah man, definitely keep me updated on that. I would say ScarfDrill is probably the most viable Exca set atm and it opens up many new opportunities while team building. Huge threat. Regarding momentum loss using Rapid Spin-- that's just something you will have to deal with when using this set, but speaking from experience, I've never had too many issues using it.

As for Latias and Latios, I think that they should be your last resort. Other team changes would need to be made if you do end up using one of them.

Good luck. :]

 

[Eduardo2013]

Thanks, I'll give Surf a try :) What would you recommend in place of HP Flying? It can nail Breloom on the switch, which was one of the main reasons I liked to keep it around, but I couldn't think of anything else worth replacing it with.

Keep hp flying it gives you a solid answer to beating venasaur one one one.

 

[Fortune]

Wouldn't jolly nature help him outspeed more threats since I believe adamant nature only reaches 275 with scarf comes out to 412 speed which won't outspeed a lot of the common scarfers in the tier like terrakion which could some damage to the team if gardevoir is weakened along with ferrothorn. Just some suggestions but if he feels good with running adamant scarf I approve of that too.

I've personally only ever ran Adamant Drill, but I do suppose it depends on the team.

 

[JMach]

I've personally only ever ran Adamant Drill, but I do suppose it depends on the team.

It may be worth checking if Drill misses out on many relevant KOs with Jolly over Adamant. I'll have a look into it.

 

[Eduardo2013]

I've personally only ever ran Adamant Drill, but I do suppose it depends on the team.

Well adamant works well with Sand offense, the role he wants drill to play on this team is more support with rapid spin to keep multi scale on dragonite and keep talonflame healthy. Scarf jolly drill will give him more opportunities to spin vs threats that would have normally outspeed. But he can choose either or depending on if he wants power or speed.

 

[WideTomato]

Thanks, I'll give Surf a try :) What would you recommend in place of HP Flying? It can nail Breloom on the switch, which was one of the main reasons I liked to keep it around, but I couldn't think of anything else worth replacing it with.

Hi, I actualle ment to run both surf and hydro pump, as hydro pump picks up some nifty ohkos, where surf don't, hp flying is not really necessary outside of hitting mvenu, as ice win is only 5 less bp (and also ohko breloom) so I would really recommend trying to have two water stabs :)

 

[JMach]

Hi, I actualle ment to run both surf and hydro pump, as hydro pump picks up some nifty ohkos, where surf don't, hp flying is not really necessary outside of hitting mvenu, as ice win is only 5 less bp (and also ohko breloom) so I would really recommend trying to have two water stabs :)

I think this is actually a better idea. I have plenty to deal with Venu and Breloom. Changing now, thanks for the advice!

 

[WideTomato]

Well adamant works well with Sand offense, the role he wants drill to play on this team is more support with rapid spin to keep multi scale on dragonite and keep talonflame healthy. Scarf jolly drill will give him more opportunities to spin vs threats that would have normally outspeed. But he can choose either or depending on if he wants power or speed.

Worth mentioning that jolly scarf drill outspeed adamant max speed char x at plus one.

 

[JMach]

Worth mentioning that jolly scarf drill outspeed adamant max speed char x at plus one.

It's a really tough choice. I just played a few more games and the AV on Drill really stops me getting my shit pushed in by neutral special hits... Took about 15% from a MegaGard Shadow Ball and KO'd back immediately... An ability like that is something I'm really reluctant to give up, as good as ScarfDrill may be.

 

[Eduardo2013]

It's a really tough choice. I just played a few more games and the AV on Drill really stops me getting my shit pushed in by neutral special hits... Took about 15% from a MegaGard Shadow Ball and KO'd back immediately... An ability like that is something I'm really reluctant to give up, as good as ScarfDrill may be.

I mean whatever works best for you should be what you decide to run since this is your team not ours. If AV Excadrill fits well and is showing good results, you should keep using it then. However if it starts to be iffy just remember the other options suggested to you :)

 

[JMach]

I mean whatever works best for you should be what you decide to run since this is your team not ours. If AV Excadrill fits well and is showing good results, you should keep using it then. However if it starts to be iffy just remember the other options suggested to you :)

I absolutely will, thank you so much for your suggestions. ScarfDrill will 100% be in my next team at the very least, I'm eager to give him a go.

 

[JMach]

Definitely keep it then, av drill does not rely as much on predictions,and it have a huge suprise factor too :]

If it ain't broken, there's no need to fix it :]

Exactly, it's been catching sooo many people off guard. Thanks a lot!

 

[Eduardo2013]

I think gyro ball would be better over knock on ferrothorn since with many good megas in the OU knock is irrelevant to them and gyro ball keeps in the check the many know dragon dancing pokemon in the tier.

 

[WideTomato]

Okay, I don't know how to quote only a part of a text, but this is a answer to the "breloom is a little scarier but can be played around" part ^~^ 252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Breloom: 272-320 (103.8 - 122.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO So no need to worry :D btw, no need to have those 30 ivs anymore btw

 

[JMach]

I think gyro ball would be better over knock on ferrothorn since with many good megas in the OU knock is irrelevant to them and gyro ball keeps in the check the many know dragon dancing pokemon in the tier.

This was also something I considered - Knock Off is still shamefully good, but I'll give it a go with Gyro Ball instead and see which I prefer. Also stops things like opposing MGards using it as setup fodder etc

 

[WideTomato]

I think gyro ball would be better over knock on ferrothorn since with many good megas in the OU knock is irrelevant to them and gyro ball keeps in the check the many know dragon dancing pokemon in the tier.

I agree with gyro ball > knock off, but he already have twave to keep dd mins in check ^^