Ubers Gastrodon [QC 3/3] [GP 2/2]

GASTRODON
QC Checks: Fireburn, Sweep, Edgar
GP Checks: Redew, The Dutch Plumberjack




Overview
#########

Don't let Gastrodon's size fool you; it has one of the best abilities for Ubers. Storm Drain gives Gastrodon the ability to switch into any Water-type attack, take no damage, and get a Special Attack boost. While its main role is countering Kyogre, Gastrodon can function in other ways too. It can scare Kyogre out and use Toxic on the Pokemon that switches in, and it can use Mirror Coat to bounce back special attacks for huge amounts of damage. Due to Gastrodon's Water / Ground typing, it boasts only one weakness in Grass-type attacks, and an immunity to Electric-type attacks. While its offensive stats are quite tame, once it gets a +1 Special Attack boost it can hit surprisingly hard. Gastrodon is mainly used on stall teams that require a check to Kyogre, although it is also viable on balanced teams as a wall.

Special Wall
#########
name: Special Wall
move 1: Scald
move 2: Toxic
move 3: Clear Smog / Mirror Coat
move 4: Recover
ability: Storm Drain
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD
nature: Calm

Moves
========

Scald is a mandatory STAB move that hits quite hard with a +1 Special Attack boost. The chance of burn is also very nice, considering the amount of physical attackers that switch in on Gastrodon. Scald can also defrost Gastrodon if it gets frozen by Kyogre's Ice Beam, which would otherwise render it helpless. Toxic is great for annoying and hindering Pokemon that try to come in or set up on Gastrodon; it is also especially good at crippling and pressuring Calm Mind Arceus variants that aren't carrying Refresh. Clear Smog is used to deal with Calm Mind Kyogre sets and other setup sweepers. Mirror Coat can be used as an alternative to Clear Smog as it bounces back huge amounts of damage to most special attackers that hardly inflict any damage to Gastrodon, such as Kyogre, Palkia, and some Calm Mind Arceus formes. Recover is Gastrodon's most reliable recovery move and can be used on the turn Kyogre switches out to maximize your chances of walling special attackers. Most of these moves punish the opponent for using Kyogre recklessly and will help with crippling and punching a hole in the opposing team.

Set Details
========

Maximum HP EVs should always be used to take advantage of Gastrodon's large bulk and maximize the amount of damage it can take. 120 Defense EVs allow Gastrodon to avoid the 2HKO from support Groudon and Low Kick Blaziken as well as the OHKO from +2 Life Orb Jolly Extreme Speed Arceus. 136 Special Defense EVs still allow Gastrodon to check Choice Specs Ice Beam Kyogre and wall other special attackers. A Calm nature is used to further increase Gastrodon's Special Defense. Storm Drain is the obvious choice of ability, as it provides a Water-type immunity and raises Gastrodon's Special Attack by one stage if hit by a Water-type attack. An EV spread of 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD can also be used, as it allows Gastrodon to take even less damage from special attacks and maximizes its walling capacity of Gastrodon, although this also renders it highly prone to Mega Mewtwo Y's Psystrike and physical attacks.

Usage Tips
========

Switch in on Kyogre's attacks if you don't want serious damage done to your team. Gastrodon is extremely predictable, so change your switch-ins to Water-type attacks to keep your opponent from predicting you and outplaying you. Gastrodon is a Pokemon that absolutely hates hazards, especially Toxic Spikes. Try to keep hazards off your side of the field as much as you can to prevent Gastrodon from being worn down. Scout for any Grass-type moves you think the opponent might have, as Grass-type attacks are Gastrodon's only weakness.

Team Options
========

Cleric support is highly appreciated by Gastrodon, as status can severely hinder its walling ability. Xerneas is a good cleric that works well with Gastrodon. Fire- or Flying-type Pokemon such as Ho-Oh are good teammates, as they cover Gastrodon's Grass-type weakness. Defoggers are also highly appreciated, as they remove entry hazards so Gastrodon can switch into Water- and Electric-type attacks freely without cost. Giratina formes are very good partners, as Giratina can wall physical attackers that Gastrodon doesn't like. If Gastrodon isn't running Clear Smog, Zekrom should be considered to handle Calm Mind RestTalk Kyogre, as Gastrodon cannot reliably PP stall them. Ferrothorn, Dialga, Grass Arceus, and physically bulky Fairies work well checking opposing Zekrom, as one wrong prediction could be costly.

Other Options
########

Earth Power can be used as an alternative to Scald, as it hits surprisingly hard with a boost from Storm Drain. Earthquake is also an option, as a Storm Drain boost is never guaranteed. Ice Beam can be used to hit Shaymin-S on the switch, as well as making other switch-ins such as Rayquaza think twice about switching in or setting up on Gastrodon. Yawn can also be considered for forcing switches.

Checks and Counters
########

**Grass Arceus**: Grass Arceus is a perfect counter to Gastrodon, as all run either Judgment or Grass Knot, both of which Gastrodon hates. The only thing Gastrodon can do to Grass Arceus is Toxic it on the switch-in.

**Shaymin-S**: Shaymin-S is also a great counter to Gastrodon if it isn't carrying Ice Beam. Although it hates Toxic, Shaymin-S can easily use Seed Flare to either OHKO Gastrodon or hit something that switches into it for lots of damage.

**Ferrothorn**: Gastrodon is completely walled by Ferrothorn, as Toxic does not affect it; moreover some Ferrothorn also carry Power Whip.

**Toxic Palkia**: Only Palkia that carry Toxic are a threat to Gastrodon, as any other move can be reflected with Mirror Coat to usually OHKO Palkia. Toxic is useless against Toxic Palkia, as they always carry Rest and sometimes Sleep Talk.

**Ho-Oh**: Ho-Oh does not care about Toxic due to Regenerator, and Gastrodon's Scald only does up to 30% on the 248 HP variants, while Ho-Oh can OHKO with Brave Bird.

**Groudon**: Groudon brings in the sun, which Gastrodon hates, as it weakens Scald. The most you can hope for is burning or poisoning it on the switch with Scald or Toxic.

**Clerics**: Gastrodon's Toxic and Scald burns can be made completely irrelevant due to cleric Pokemon healing their teammates; this proves annoying as one of Gastrodon's secondary roles is to spread status and cripple teams with Toxic and burn respectively.

**Gothitelle**: Gothitelle can trap Gastrodon using Shadow Tag and set up on it if Gastrodon doesn't run Clear Smog, which will eventually lead to Gothitelle taking out more Pokemon. Gothitelle is unaffected by Toxic due to it carrying Rest.


-252 SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 171-202 (40.1 - 47.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

-+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 375-442 (88 - 103.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

-+6 252 SpA Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 356-419 (83.5 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-252 SpA Mega Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 132-156 (30.9 - 36.6%) -- 61.2% chance to 3HKO

-252+ SpA Mega Mewtwo Y Psystrike vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gastrodon: 334-394 (78.4 - 92.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-+1 252+ SpA Spooky Plate Arceus-Ghost Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 249-294 (58.4 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-252+ SpA Dialga Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 211-250 (49.5 - 58.6%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO

-252+ SpA Lustrous Orb Palkia Spacial Rend vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 195-231 (45.7 - 54.2%) -- 50% chance to 2HKO

-+6 252+ SpA Iron Plate Arceus-Steel Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 331-390 (77.6 - 91.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


Overview
#########
-Very specialized mon, main job is to check Kyogre
-Good Sp Def/HP
-Electric immunity due to ground typing
-Water immunity due to storm drain
-Only one weakness which is 4X Grass
-Great for forcing switches on Water/Electric types
-Poor attack stats
-Best used as a wall
-Only useful on stall teams with a CM/Specs Ogre weakness
-Good at status spreading via Scald and Toxic

Set 1
#########
Name: Special Wall
Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD
Nature: Calm
- Scald
- Toxic
- Mirror Coat/Clear Smog
- Recover

Moves
========
-Scald for STAB and thawing if haxed by ice beam. Works well with the Sp Atk boost from Storm Drain. Also good for possible burn chance
-Recover for longevity
-Toxic for stalling out mons
-Mirror coat for dealing with Sp Attking mons Eg. Kyogre, MM2, MGar, Palkia, Some CM Arceus variants/
-Clear Smog for CM Restalk Ogre's / Other CM users

Set Details
========
-120 Def allows gastrodon to avoid the 2HKO from Support Don, Low Kick Blaziken and the OHKO from +2 LO Jolly Extreme Killer
-136 SpD still allows it to check Specs Icebeam Ogre and wall other special attackers IF it has to
-Max HP to make it as bulky as possible
-Calm nature as Gastro doesnt need ATK stat
-Storm Drain to provide Water Immunity

Usage Tips
========
-Switch in on Kyogre
-Try to keep hazards off field to minimise damage and maximise defensive capability
-Scout for Toxic and Grass moves on pokemon you are walling/checking
-Gastrodon is extremely predictable so mix it up by switching to other Kyogre checks occasionally i.e Palkia, Grassceus, Kyogre
-You can Scald Kyogre to death if it isnt specs as long as you arent reckless and recover right

Team Options
========
-Cleric so as to remove Toxic/Burn/Sleep status
-Fire/Flying types to remove threats to Gastro. Ho-Oh works wonders here. Rayquaza? Reshiram?
-Defoggers are a must so Gastrodon can switch into Water/Electric attacks freely
-Zekrom should be considered for CM RestTalk Ogre's which Gastro can't PP stall

Other Options
########
-Earth Power can receive a boost from Storm Drain, but Earthquake hits all of its targets more reliably not to mention that a Storm Drain boost is never guaranteed
-Ice Beam hits Shaymin-S on the switch as well as making Rayquaza think twice about setting up on Gastro
-Yawn is good for forcing switches/crippling mon

Checks and Counters
########
-Grassceus, Skymin, Groudon, Landorous, MMY with Psystrike, Ho-Oh
 
Last edited by a moderator:

PISTOLERO

I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him.
i actually have a reservation to be mean <3 but ily so i'm gonna be nice (for now huehuehue) and give you helpful advice

twave absorber ---> not too sure about this, quite a lot of the common users can threaten you, e.g. Keys can Toxic you easily if you're not running a Ground move, Thundurus can Grass Knot

Toxic Palkia with Rest will stall you out easily, mention it

mention Earthquake as certain things don't care about Earth Power, e.g. Klefki takes more damage, SubCM Arceus-Electric is screwed completely, Arceus-Steel has a harder time setting up. Earthquake hits harder actually due to its 20 higher base power. run Sassy with EQ. in fact, EQ also helps against SubCM Kyogre, which would otherwise win with Ice Beam (they tend to be Modest not Timid, so they can OHKO)

GeoXern is not something you can really reliably deal with, as with SR it has a better than 50% of KOing you, and with Spikes or any residual damage..... it can also Sub on Mirror Coat like a bitch. Clear Smog catches ones that set up and is hilarious, but don't rely on it either - it also doesn't break GeoXern's substitutes.

mention how Specs Ice beam from Kyogre does 40% maximum, meaning it's screwed completely. However, also mention that Gastrodon switches are painfully obvious, meaning the opponent will double swtich or hit it with Ice Beam. If Kyogre decides to lock itself into Ice Beam, take advantage of this (we've done this several times with CB Ho-Oh, remember :))

CM RestTalk Ogre is quite rare, and you can go to war with it PP wise. I'm not sure if you'd win though. mention how you cockblock monoCM Arceus-Water completely, which can otherwise cause issues for stall teams.

Ho-OH is indeed quite a good teammate, as it can take advantage of the opponent's reaction to Gastrodon, e.g. Arceus-Grass, and can wreak havoc. again, talk about predicted double switches etc, e.g. Kia spacial rending hooh predicting Gastrodon to come in, then getting birded to death.

Talk in detail about how Gastrodon isn't really too mega gengar weak due to a. its access to EQ and Earth Power, b. its access to Mirror Coat which, due to the way it works, fucks up Gengar's life completely unless it's Perish Trap, and c. the fact that it can actually Clear Smog Gengar repeatedly and do jack damage, therefore evading Destiny Bond whilst burning them - I played against Sweep where i did this and i got the last 50/50 wrong, but Gastrodon managed to stay in on Gengar for like 7 turns.

you shouldn't be coming in on zekrom at all, something like landorus can take a stray Outrage/Dragon Claw whereas Gastrodon will facepalm and die.

Clerics - they are also useful for their ability to take on Yveltal which can Taunt you and be hella irritating otherwise.

physical attackers don't acutally like switching in too much due to burn chance. some can set up on it though

mention counter in OO and a phys def spread - phys def gastrodon can actually take +2 espeed from arceus reasonably nicely considering it's gastrodon.
MENTION IN DETAIL HOW TOXIC RUINS THIS THING, IT MEANS YOU CAN'T STALL OUT CM ARC WATER OR SPECS OGRE ANYMORE

oh i forgot, you suck, you're rubbish, you're welcome for me passing this on to you (analyses are getting harder and harder to find, isn't that right Minority Suspect :D), zing, tomatos, mangos, you suck some more, ily <3, good luck with the wrath of Ubers QC
 
Last edited:

Disaster Area

formerly Piexplode
Mention how the only advantage really over palkia is beating CM Eleceus

set wise I see

Recover mandatory
Toxic Mandatory to fuck over anything and evrything
Clear Smog mandatory to check CM ogre and beat CM Eleceus.. why use it if ur not gonna do that?
Scald/Earth Power/Mirror Coat as your attack.
That's sorta how I see it.
 

Disaster Area

formerly Piexplode
I don't see how you have any room for anything other than recover/toxic/clear smog/scald.. recover allows you to beat specsogre, clear smog allows you to beat eleceus, you already beat monoCM waterceus, toxic is to hit its bazillion switches, scald likewise, but to enjoy the possible boosts from storm drain and rain, and fish for burns, depending on the team make-up. Mirror Coat and Earth Power are kinda shitty, and given its lack of moveslots I don't know if they should get more than an OO or maybe moves mention.
 

Minority

Numquam Vincar
is a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Brrrrrra! Brrrrrrra! Shots fired into a crowd of handicapped orphan puppies by LustKia <3.

Not QC, but I think you should seriously mention HP Grass Ogre, it OHKOs Gastrodon 50% of the time even when rocks are down and some people actually run it because some teams rely so heavily on this thing to counter Ogre. It's not like Ice Beam is some fantastic move on Ogre anyways so I wouldn't even call it some outlandish and stupid gimmick to see HP Grass on Kyogre.

Should we even bother giving this thing an analysis when Freeze Dry Primal Kyogre is coming out in a few months anyways?
 

Inspirited

There is usually higher ground.
is a Contributor Alumnus
Hi Joryn, this actually looks pretty good for a first analysis attempt, just thought I would share some things
GASTRODON

<Calc Hide Tags should go here if anywhere>
Overview
#########

-Good Sp Def/HP
-Electric immunity due to ground typing
-Water immunity due to storm drain
-Only one weakness which is 4X Grass
-Great for forcing switches on Water/Electric types
-Poor attack stats
-Best used as a wall/TWave absorber

Set 1 (I would suggest changing this)
######### (Remove Space)
Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Toxic
- Mirror Coat/Clear Smog/Earth Power
- Recover

name: The Wonder Slug (you can change this if you would like)
move 1: Scald
move 2: Recover
move 3: Toxic
move 4:
Clear Smog / Earthquake (Explained below)
ability: Storm Drain
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
nature: Calm
/ Sassy (For when using Earthquake)
(Reformatted this to match standards :])
Moves
========( use "=" when reffering to the same set) (remove space)
-Scald for STAB and thawing if haxed by ice beam. Works well with the Sp Atk boost from Storm Drain. Also good for possible burn chance
-Recover for longevity
-Toxic for stalling out mons
-Mirror coat for dealing with Sp Attking mons Eg. Kyogre, MM2, MGar, all Xern forms, Palkia, CM Arceus variants, (I would suggest moving this lower on the list or maybe even OO)
-Clear Smog for CM Restalk Ogre's/Geoxerns
-Earthquake hits all everything you would want to hit with Gastrodon's ground STAB harder than Earth Power and can also save you vs several Substitute + Calm Mind users
-Earth Power is considered over EQ as it hits hard than EQ after a Sp Atk boost from Storm Drain and even without the boost, they hit the same. (OO definitely)
-Mirror coat for dealing with Sp Attking mons Eg. Kyogre, MM2, MGar, all Xern forms, Palkia, CM Arceus variants. Gastrodon has little to no room for it however

Set Details
======== (remove space)
-Best to use defensive Gastrodon, Max Spe Def is recommended
-Calm nature as Gastro doesnt need ATK stat
-A Sassy nature is used when using Earthquake
-Max HP to make it as bulky as possible
-Storm Drain to provide Water Immunity

Usage Tips
======== (remove space)
-Switch in on Kyogre or choiced Zekroms.
-Switch in on the Geo turn of Xerneas
-Try to keep hazards off field to minimise damage and maximise defensive capability
-Switch in on predicted TWaves
-Scout potential mixed attackers, i.e. LO Xern, for Physical moves
-KEEP TOXIC AWAY FROM THIS SLUG


Team Options
======== (remove space)
-Cleric so as to remove Toxic/Burn/Sleep status
-Fire/Flying types to remove threats to Gastro. Ho-Oh works wonders here. Reshiram?
-Defoggers are a must so Gastrodon can switch into Water/Electric attacks freely
-Zekrom should be considered for CM RestTalk Ogre's which Gastro can't PP stall

Other Options
######## (required field even if there is nothing in it [just wrote "lol" or something if there is nothing here])
-Earth Power can receive a boost from Storm Drain, but Earthquake hits all of its targets more reliably not to mention that a Storm Drain boost is never guaranteed
-Ice Beam hits Shaymin-S on the switch as well as making Rayquaza think twice about setting up on Gastro


Checks and Counters
##################### (you only need 8 of each symbol under each heading [i honestly don't know why but thats the standard :P]) (remove space)
-Any Physical Attker
-Grass types

**Physical Attackers**: <list of particularly dangerous ones and explanation of how they check / counter gastro>

**Grass Types**: <list of particularly dangerous ones and explanation of how they check / counter gastro>



Calcs
######

-252 SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 171-202 (40.1 - 47.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

-+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 375-442 (88 - 103.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

-+6 252 SpA Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 356-419 (83.5 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-252 SpA Mega Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 132-156 (30.9 - 36.6%) -- 61.2% chance to 3HKO

-252+ SpA Mega Mewtwo Y Psystrike vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gastrodon: 334-394 (78.4 - 92.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-+1 252+ SpA Spooky Plate Arceus-Ghost Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 249-294 (58.4 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-252+ SpA Dialga Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 211-250 (49.5 - 58.6%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO

-252+ SpA Lustrous Orb Palkia Spacial Rend vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 195-231 (45.7 - 54.2%) -- 50% chance to 2HKO

-+6 252+ SpA Iron Plate Arceus-Steel Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 331-390 (77.6 - 91.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Explanation below)
So about the Clear Smog and Earthquake ordeal, Earthquake in general hits Earth Power's targets much more reliably due to the lack of Defense boosting moves and the Specially Defensive nature of Fire- and Steel-type this gen. Clear Smog > Mirror Coat just because it forces Calm Mind Xerneas to rest without a boost usually which gives you a better window of which to bring an appropriate check in. It can still screw Geoxern if you manage to live its Moonbast also (sub still destroys Gastro regardless). Honestly any move that makes Gastro less set-up bait for boosting threats should be considered and Clear Smog just happens to be the best one in its arsenal.

About your calcs, copy and paste what is inside this code box into the area I picked out up top
Code:
[hide=Calcs]
-252 SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 171-202 (40.1 - 47.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

-+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 375-442 (88 - 103.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

-+6 252 SpA Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 356-419 (83.5 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-252 SpA Mega Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 132-156 (30.9 - 36.6%) -- 61.2% chance to 3HKO

-252+ SpA Mega Mewtwo Y Psystrike vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gastrodon: 334-394 (78.4 - 92.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-+1 252+ SpA Spooky Plate Arceus-Ghost Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 249-294 (58.4 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-252+ SpA Dialga Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 211-250 (49.5 - 58.6%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO

-252+ SpA Lustrous Orb Palkia Spacial Rend vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 195-231 (45.7 - 54.2%) -- 50% chance to 2HKO

-+6 252+ SpA Iron Plate Arceus-Steel Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 331-390 (77.6 - 91.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO[/hide]
(I am not sure how familiar you are with hide tags so I made it easy)

Also here are some resources you can use for future analysis's:

Analysis Format: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/generation-6-analysis-format.3495073/

Spelling and Grammar Standards: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/spelling-and-grammar-standards.3490681/

Good Luck ^_^
 
Last edited:
Overview

Remove the mention of one of its main jobs being a TWave absorber, as Gastrodon is used on Stall teams that will typically not be bothered by the move much & have a cleric anyway. Also mention how specialized this Pokemon is: it isn't going to beat many of the metagame's top threats reliably, as Palkia often carry Toxic and/or Rest, Xerneas can 2HKO you with Life Orb sets or potentially Substitute if a Geomancy/Calm Mind set (since Clear Smog's effect is blocked by Sub), and some CM Arceus carry either Refresh or an immunity to Toxic. Naturally, Gastrodon isn't going to take physical attacks well without investment either, though it still switches into Tyranitar. Gastrodon is a great check to shit like Kyogre, Electric Arceus, and Water Arceus but fares poorly vs. 90+% of the metagame. Therefore, stress that Gastrodon can only fit onto Stall teams that are really shaky vs Specs/CM Kyogre, because I can't think of an easier Pokemon to pull double switches off. Finally, mention it does a good job of spreading status with Toxic and Scald.

Special Wall

0 Atk Groudon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gastrodon: 211-249 (49.5 - 58.4%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Even though Gastrodon is meant to be a special wall, I feel a max specially defensive spread is overkill. The reality is that Gastrodon does not need full investment to check what it needs to check and without any physical investment, Gastrodon is a sitting duck for something as simple as a Support Groudon. I recommend a 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD Calm spread, which allows Gastrodon to avoid the 2HKO from support Groudon and Low Kick Blaziken and almost always avoid the OHKO from standard +2 Life Orb Jolly Extremekiller while still checking Electric Arceus and Specs Kyogre easily (Modest Specs Ice Beam still only does 45% max to this spread). The unfortunate setback of this spread is that Lustrous Orb Palkia usually 2HKOes you, but Gastrodon was never an ideal check to that anyway since it could DTail you into 2HKO range or just crithax you anyway. With some physical defense investment, Gastro will fare far better vs stuff like Excadrill and support Groudon than it would otherwise. I'll let other QC chime in but I don't feel the current spread is optimal.

Is Earthquake really worth the slash? Gengar struggles to take down Gastrodon since Mirror Coat is not affected by Taunt, so it can stall out Destiny Bond easily with it or just smack Gengar with Scald if it attempts to stall you back with Taunt. On top of that, Shadow Ball does not come close to 2HKOing! I'd also like to see what Substitutes an uninvested Gastrodon's Earthquake can successfully break.

0 Atk Gastrodon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Ghost: 79-94 (17.7 - 21.1%) -- possible 5HKO...So yeah, I'd just slash Mirror Coat with Clear Smog, both of which are really nice on this.

Remove the statement "best to use defensive Gastrodon." That is very obvious to everyone, even newer Ubers players.

Usage Tips

OK this section needs some work. Gastrodon is a suboptimal switchin into Zekrom since Scarf deals 65-77% with Outrage and Band will outright OHKO you. That's one of the reasons I didn't like using Gastrodon much when I played in SPL...it almost forced me to run another Ground type like Landorus-T to help with Zekrom, since tank Xerneas is 2HKOed by Bolt Strike after SR and cannot check Zekrom by itself. DEFINITELY remove the Xerneas switchin mention, as even the 252/252+ spread has a 25% chance of being OHKOed by a +2 Moonblast. Gastrodon is not an effective Xerneas check by any means, and Clear Smog is more for Calm Mind Arceus/Kyogre than deadly set-up sweepers. Remove the Toxic and TWave mentions, the Toxic line is filler and I already pointed out why absorbing paralysis is very far down the list of what Gastrodon needs to accomplish for its team. The only really good tip in this section is that you should always scout for moves like Toxic on Palkia, Toxic/Grass Knot on Arceus-Water, etc. Even then, Xerneas isn't relevant since they would much rather Moonblast you to death than Close Combat since Moonblast does far more damage Horn Leech Xerneas isn't used, not even on the lower ladder.

In addition, devote a bullet point to how damn predictable this is. A good opponent will see Gastrodon and pull off a double switch to something Gastrodon cannot handle when it tries to come in on Kyogre. Mention anticipating these switches in the Usage Tips section and sending your back-up Kyogre check (i.e. Giratina/Arceus-Grass/your own Kyogre) instead of Gastrodon on occasion to keep your opponent off guard. Also mention that spamming Scald isn't a bad idea if your opponent's Kyogre isn't Specs, since Gastrodon will be quite hard to wear down and will not need to spend as many turns using Recover so long you are not reckless. Gastrodon is a very straightforward Pokemon, so the usage tips section doesn't need to be massive; please don't inundate it with filler.

Other Options

Yeah Ice Beam is alright, good job here. Gastro has very few other viable options outside of what's listed in the main set. Counter can ambush +2 EKiller if you're at full health but is very risky, as they might just set up again and sweep your entire team. Mirror Coat is better anyway vs stuff like Gengar and Support Arceus. Mention Yawn too.

Checks & Counters

Grass Arceus and Shaymin-S are terrific counters and should be listed first. Mega Venusaur is terrible, remove it. Mega Mewtwo X can only 3HKO with Low Kick and needs to use up a turn Taunting to prevent recovery, plenty of time for Gastrodon to ruin it with Scald. I'd honestly remove it as a check, though MMY is an excellent one. Ho-Oh is a reasonable check but only the Careful variants avoid having their Subs broken by Scald, and they cannot 2HKO the 120 Defense spread back with Brave Bird. I'd have it pretty far down the list, especially since Toxic can cripple it on the switch. It's still a solid check though, Band is goddamn frightening.

In summary, Gastrodon reminds me of Arceus-Rock. It's viable and I'll certainly end up approving this, but it's so specialized that I really don't like using it, even if it is a ridiculously good Kyogre counter in a metagame lacking Soul Dew.
 
Overview

Remove the mention of one of its main jobs being a TWave absorber, as Gastrodon is used on Stall teams that will typically not be bothered by the move much & have a cleric anyway. Also mention how specialized this Pokemon is: it isn't going to beat many of the metagame's top threats reliably, as Palkia often carry Toxic and/or Rest, Xerneas can 2HKO you with Life Orb sets or potentially Substitute if a Geomancy/Calm Mind set (since Clear Smog's effect is blocked by Sub), and some CM Arceus carry either Refresh or an immunity to Toxic. Naturally, Gastrodon isn't going to take physical attacks well without investment either, though it still switches into Tyranitar. Gastrodon is a great check to shit like Kyogre, Electric Arceus, and Water Arceus but fares poorly vs. 90+% of the metagame. Therefore, stress that Gastrodon can only fit onto Stall teams that are really shaky vs Specs/CM Kyogre, because I can't think of an easier Pokemon to pull double switches off. Finally, mention it does a good job of spreading status with Toxic and Scald.

Special Wall

0 Atk Groudon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gastrodon: 211-249 (49.5 - 58.4%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Even though Gastrodon is meant to be a special wall, I feel a max specially defensive spread is overkill. The reality is that Gastrodon does not need full investment to check what it needs to check and without any physical investment, Gastrodon is a sitting duck for something as simple as a Support Groudon. I recommend a 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD Calm spread, which allows Gastrodon to avoid the 2HKO from support Groudon and Low Kick Blaziken and almost always avoid the OHKO from standard +2 Life Orb Jolly Extremekiller while still checking Electric Arceus and Specs Kyogre easily (Modest Specs Ice Beam still only does 45% max to this spread). The unfortunate setback of this spread is that Lustrous Orb Palkia usually 2HKOes you, but Gastrodon was never an ideal check to that anyway since it could DTail you into 2HKO range or just crithax you anyway. With some physical defense investment, Gastro will fare far better vs stuff like Excadrill and support Groudon than it would otherwise. I'll let other QC chime in but I don't feel the current spread is optimal.

Is Earthquake really worth the slash? Gengar struggles to take down Gastrodon since Mirror Coat is not affected by Taunt, so it can stall out Destiny Bond easily with it or just smack Gengar with Scald if it attempts to stall you back with Taunt. On top of that, Shadow Ball does not come close to 2HKOing! I'd also like to see what Substitutes an uninvested Gastrodon's Earthquake can successfully break.

0 Atk Gastrodon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Ghost: 79-94 (17.7 - 21.1%) -- possible 5HKO...So yeah, I'd just slash Mirror Coat with Clear Smog, both of which are really nice on this.

Remove the statement "best to use defensive Gastrodon." That is very obvious to everyone, even newer Ubers players.

Usage Tips

OK this section needs some work. Gastrodon is a suboptimal switchin into Zekrom since Scarf deals 65-77% with Outrage and Band will outright OHKO you. That's one of the reasons I didn't like using Gastrodon much when I played in SPL...it almost forced me to run another Ground type like Landorus-T to help with Zekrom, since tank Xerneas is 2HKOed by Bolt Strike after SR and cannot check Zekrom by itself. DEFINITELY remove the Xerneas switchin mention, as even the 252/252+ spread has a 25% chance of being OHKOed by a +2 Moonblast. Gastrodon is not an effective Xerneas check by any means, and Clear Smog is more for Calm Mind Arceus/Kyogre than deadly set-up sweepers. Remove the Toxic and TWave mentions, the Toxic line is filler and I already pointed out why absorbing paralysis is very far down the list of what Gastrodon needs to accomplish for its team. The only really good tip in this section is that you should always scout for moves like Toxic on Palkia, Toxic/Grass Knot on Arceus-Water, etc. Even then, Xerneas isn't relevant since they would much rather Moonblast you to death than Close Combat since Moonblast does far more damage Horn Leech Xerneas isn't used, not even on the lower ladder.

In addition, devote a bullet point to how damn predictable this is. A good opponent will see Gastrodon and pull off a double switch to something Gastrodon cannot handle when it tries to come in on Kyogre. Mention anticipating these switches in the Usage Tips section and sending your back-up Kyogre check (i.e. Giratina/Arceus-Grass/your own Kyogre) instead of Gastrodon on occasion to keep your opponent off guard. Also mention that spamming Scald isn't a bad idea if your opponent's Kyogre isn't Specs, since Gastrodon will be quite hard to wear down and will not need to spend as many turns using Recover so long you are not reckless. Gastrodon is a very straightforward Pokemon, so the usage tips section doesn't need to be massive; please don't inundate it with filler.

Other Options

Yeah Ice Beam is alright, good job here. Gastro has very few other viable options outside of what's listed in the main set. Counter can ambush +2 EKiller if you're at full health but is very risky, as they might just set up again and sweep your entire team. Mirror Coat is better anyway vs stuff like Gengar and Support Arceus. Mention Yawn too.

Checks & Counters

Grass Arceus and Shaymin-S are terrific counters and should be listed first. Mega Venusaur is terrible, remove it. Mega Mewtwo X can only 3HKO with Low Kick and needs to use up a turn Taunting to prevent recovery, plenty of time for Gastrodon to ruin it with Scald. I'd honestly remove it as a check, though MMY is an excellent one. Ho-Oh is a reasonable check but only the Careful variants avoid having their Subs broken by Scald, and they cannot 2HKO the 120 Defense spread back with Brave Bird. I'd have it pretty far down the list, especially since Toxic can cripple it on the switch. It's still a solid check though, Band is goddamn frightening.

In summary, Gastrodon reminds me of Arceus-Rock. It's viable and I'll certainly end up approving this, but it's so specialized that I really don't like using it, even if it is a ridiculously good Kyogre counter in a metagame lacking Soul Dew.
Thanks for the input :] will make the changes tonight :]
 

Fireburn

BARN ALL
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Do everything Sweep said and double-check the set formatting, it looks off.

Checks should be Grass-types (Grassceus/Skymin/Ferrothorn), bulky things with Toxic, strong physical attacks (Ho-Oh can go here), MMY, Clerics (they can remove status so it minimizes Gastrodon's overall impact on the match), and Gothitelle (traps and owns with Shadow Tag).

Team Options should also include backup Zekrom checks like Dialga, Ferrothorn, Grassceus, phys. bulky Fairies, etc

QC 1/3
 
Loses to hp grass and sub cm ice beam ogre, giga drain megagar and energy ball eleceus. Bad poke and a terrible writer.

Anyway, in order to not get this deleted:
- Landorus-t is the thread, not Landorus (which you misspelled btw)
- Geoxern sets up on you if mirro coat (You geo as they recover so they can live a moonblast, geo again, get a +3 boost with only a toxic)
- Use clear smog over mirror coat, seriously dude
- mention cm refrehs darkceus as it sets up infinitely unless clear smog
- If you gonna use earth power, use it over scald, as clear smog is almost mandatory, and mirror coat is a niche alternative. you should not use anything else in that slot imo
- Swallow cuz this pokemon sucks?
 
Loses to hp grass and sub cm ice beam ogre, giga drain megagar and energy ball eleceus. Bad poke and a terrible writer.

Anyway, in order to not get this deleted:
- Landorus-t is the thread, not Landorus (which you misspelled btw)
- Geoxern sets up on you if mirro coat (You geo as they recover so they can live a moonblast, geo again, get a +3 boost with only a toxic)
- Use clear smog over mirror coat, seriously dude
- mention cm refrehs darkceus as it sets up infinitely unless clear smog
- If you gonna use earth power, use it over scald, as clear smog is almost mandatory, and mirror coat is a niche alternative. you should not use anything else in that slot imo
- Swallow cuz this pokemon sucks?
aidin pls, 99% of teams run a dedicated GeoXern check so using clear smog over mirror coat just for geoxern is silly imo. a few stray calm mind ogres and calm mind darkceus's ect i also think do not warrant running clear smog over mirror coat. And darkceus is uncommon this gen *_* well, from what i've seen anyway.

also, mirror coat is mandatory imo, i have used gastrodon ALOT as you well know (hue hue, enough to CT me with Energy Ball Mgar) and ive found that if i had used clear smog over mirror coat, the outcome would be worse, as then it does nothing back to special attackers except a weak scald or toxic.
and idk about earth power, i havent really used it because of the 4mss gastrodon suffers from (imo) but i think i should make it an alternative to scald, although it's rarely used.

I'd like QC's inputs on this before i make any changes tho

Aidin sucks huehue ♥
 
Joryn, I didn't mean that it should run clear smog because of geoxern, i just said that xerneas can set up on some gastrodons, so it might go into checks and counters, same with cm ceuses that are not waterceus.As to why I think clear smog is better ,see Piexplode 's arguments
The reason I mentioned earthpower in the first place is because it says this : "Earth Power can be used as an alternative to Mirror Coat" in your analysis.

Oh and btw, I do think you should slash a ground move after scald, as scald + clear smog forces you to run unreliable pursuit/spiritomb.
 
Last edited:
I like Mirror Coat to mess with Mega Gengar and punish stuff like Lustrous Orb Palkia. Most CM Arceus formes can be crippled by Toxic'd and Refresh variants can be dealt with by a teammate. Calm Mind Kyogre with a non-STAB attack does mess this up but that variant is rare. Support Landorus-T is not really a check, it will not 2HKO you with Earthquake and can get 2HKOed back by Scald. Remove it. Groudon fares slightly better but should be moved below Ho-Oh. Also, please clean up your formatting and grammar before this goes to GP to make the GP team's life easier.

Usage tips: Kyogre never runs HP grass as the uncommon Gastro would be its only target. Remove.

Make these changes and QC 3/3
 
Why is Mirror Coat still slashed?

Honestly it might be hard to understand but I'll explain both why Mirror Coat is bad and why Clear Smog is good. First off the noteworthy advantages that MC have are clearly not the ones Sweep pointed out. LustKia is a rare and outdated set and still has a 17 % chance to 2HKO Gastro's given spread. Gengar's best option to remove Gastro is clearly not by attacking- Shadow Ball is a measly 3HKO so it will have to resort to Taunt+Bond shenanigans to actually win reliably. In extension this means Mirror Coat is useless vs most Palkia and all Gengar. I can understand there are scenarios where MC helps, but for consistency issues I wouldn't recommend it.

It's not as easy as it sounds dealing with CM Arceus. Clear Smog gives you a way to handle even Refresh variants- as Gastro is limited to very specific stall builds you get the point. It is very hard to find viable CM refresh Arceus checks for stall- I wouldn't throw away one of the better option by using some half assed troll move, which downsides I explained before.

The fact that nothing can ever set up on you is something that cannot be understated. If need be, a full health Gastro removes boosts from Blaziken, Ekiller and prevents literally any relevant set up sweeper in the tier from setting up in the first place.

Clear Smog only slash, MC to wherever.
 
Why is Mirror Coat still slashed?

Honestly it might be hard to understand but I'll explain both why Mirror Coat is bad and why Clear Smog is good. First off the noteworthy advantages that MC have are clearly not the ones Sweep pointed out. LustKia is a rare and outdated set and still has a 17 % chance to 2HKO Gastro's given spread. Gengar's best option to remove Gastro is clearly not by attacking- Shadow Ball is a measly 3HKO so it will have to resort to Taunt+Bond shenanigans to actually win reliably. In extension this means Mirror Coat is useless vs most Palkia and all Gengar. I can understand there are scenarios where MC helps, but for consistency issues I wouldn't recommend it.

It's not as easy as it sounds dealing with CM Arceus. Clear Smog gives you a way to handle even Refresh variants- as Gastro is limited to very specific stall builds you get the point. It is very hard to find viable CM refresh Arceus checks for stall- I wouldn't throw away one of the better option by using some half assed troll move, which downsides I explained before.

The fact that nothing can ever set up on you is something that cannot be understated. If need be, a full health Gastro removes boosts from Blaziken, Ekiller and prevents literally any relevant set up sweeper in the tier from setting up in the first place.

Clear Smog only slash, MC to wherever.
It isnt just LustKia it beats, it's any Palkia set except ToxicRest variants. Mirror Coat also does beat MGar 1 on 1 if it doesn't run HP Grass, Energy Ball or Perish Trap. Mirror Coat is Unaffected by Taunt, and if Gengar Dbonds, Gastrodon can keep Mirror Coating until Gengar attacks, at which point, the Destiny Bond will be broken and therefore irrelevant.

Also, Gastrodon isnt just limited to stall builds, i have had great success with Mirror Coat Gastrodon on a balanced build and it worked very well with taking out special attacking threats to my team, whereas the clear smog variant wouldn't have. Also, clear smog is very situation based, it becomes useless against teams that have no setup sweepers, and honestly, please don't mention EKiller or GeoXern as (Ok it works, but Ekiller will just boost again and Xerneas will just moonblast it to death) You shouldnt really be keeping Gastrodon in on GeoXern or Ekiller anyway. I do agree with the CM Refresh Arceus variants part though, and that is why it is slashed and not in other option. It also helps with CM RestTalk Ogre, but, it's really not common on the ladder and im sure thats what most people will be using this analysis for. Mirror Coat is also quite situational but can be used to get rid of threats to teams and need to be taken out.

Talk to Melee Mewtwo about removing Mirror Coat please because me and him discussed it a while back and we decided (If i remember correctly, correct me if im wrong mm2) that Clear Smog should be slashed instead of Mirror Coat.

Also, since this has had 3 QC checks, shouldnt it be kept the way it is? Im not sure how that works, im not trying to be rude btw
 
I don't remember talking gastro besides saying that the special def spread should be somewhere cause you lose a Palkia check otherwise.

I don't really care which is slashed first personally but I think both should be slashed. Mcoast rofl stomping Gar is great cause fuck shadow tag but Clear Smog has obvious advantages vs CM Arc. Seems like a team thing to me.

Clear Smog doesn't stop goth, lol.
 
I don't remember talking gastro besides saying that the special def spread should be somewhere cause you lose a Palkia check otherwise.

I don't really care which is slashed first personally but I think both should be slashed. Mcoast rofl stomping Gar is great cause fuck shadow tag but Clear Smog has obvious advantages vs CM Arc. Seems like a team thing to me.

Clear Smog doesn't stop goth, lol.
Mustve been someone else i was talking to then :[

Uh, so should i just leave it the way it is? Or swap them?
 
check with rest of QC team but I'm assuming you are going to find don't care or clear smog first guys so probably best to swap them.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top