Other Pokemon: Smogon Version OU [Route 4]

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a fairy

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NPC Trainer Proposal
Route 1
Team: Level 5 Pikachu (Let's go that route, at least for now)
Rival ??? (This is the "Simpleton" Rival)
Script:
One you pass a certain point, he runs up to you.

open: <TrainerName>! We both just got our first Pokemon, so let's battle, OK?
win: Yes yes yes! Good job, Pikachu!
lose: Wh-what?! No, Pikachu!


also, I realize I'm being very pendatic with this, but when it comes to plot devices, like rivals and recurring characters, let's stick to one personality, please? it's ok if they grow or change over time, but assuming the above as a base, if the simpleton challenges you to a battle before, say, the second gym, can he not go something like "I'm going to destroy you with my amazing Pikachu!" and maybe something more like "I've improved a lot since we last battled, let's do it again!"
 
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Pokemon Proposal
Route 1
Venipede
Thick Grass
Level 2-5
As the only OU viable early-game Bug type, I think Venipede definitely would fit in the first route in the game. Venipede, thanks to its Hidden Ability, is valuable for any Baton Pass team, and including it early on allows players to start building their team around it before getting too late into the game.
 

Da Pizza Man

Pizza Time
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NPC Propsal
Route 1
Berry Guy
Basically that generic guy who gives you a potion when you start the game. Except he gives you berry juice and tells you how items like Potions and Antidotes dont work in battles and your pokemon are healed to full after a battle

His Dialogue could go like this: "Hey have this"
*Gives 1 Berry Juice*
"This is a special blend of Oran Berries that I made, give it to your pokemon and when its HP reaches below 50% in a battle they will automatically Heal 20 HP, you might want to use these over potions since Potions and stuff like them cant be used in battle and after battle they are healed to full anyway"
 
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a fairy

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Can we avoid doing stuff like that? In games, there is a thing called immersion. This is when you get so into the game, you start feeling connected mentally and emotionally with the character you're playing as, or watching. Constant references to unrelated things, like "In the mainstream games, I'd give you a potion!" will cause the player to pause for a second and realize he's playing a pixelated dog-fighting game, which is subpar if we want them to really get into the games -- which we do, as they'll more easily absorb information and advice.
 

Da Pizza Man

Pizza Time
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Can we avoid doing stuff like that? In games, there is a thing called immersion. This is when you get so into the game, you start feeling connected mentally and emotionally with the character you're playing as, or watching. Constant references to unrelated things, like "In the mainstream games, I'd give you a potion!" will cause the player to pause for a second and realize he's playing a pixelated dog-fighting game, which is subpar if we want them to really get into the games -- which we do, as they'll more easily absorb information and advice.
There is more games that break the 4th wall than you think, and doing that doesn't make the game worse, if anything it just makes it funnier, this is done in a good amount in the mainstream games too
 

a fairy

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Just because other games break the fourth wall (I think it was XY that was a really bad game because of it) doesn't mean we have to follow down the same flawed path. Maybe have him give a Berry Juice/Oran Berry and warn that stuff like Antidotes and Potions don't have effect in battle.

edit to reply @ below: let's end this conversation, but the ocrift argument is silly and maybe it was BW2 with all the weird references? whatever game had "OVER 9000" as a reference. that game.
 
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Da Pizza Man

Pizza Time
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Just because other games break the fourth wall (I think it was XY that was a really bad game because of it) doesn't mean we have to follow down the same flawed path. Maybe have him give a Berry Juice/Oran Berry and warn that stuff like Antidotes and Potions don't have effect in battle.
Fine :mad:

But yeah XY didn't break the 4th wall, so not sure what you mean there, and if you want to feel like its an actual other world why not just play the Ocolus Rift? Also we technically already broke the 4th wall with the "Technology is amazing" guy

Edit: It was XY that made that reference, although personally I don't count that as breaking the 4th wall and Pokemon games are generally not known for their dialogue, so saying its a bad game because of that is silly, especially for a kids game, but yeah best to end this, its obviously going nowhere and is just bringing the thread of track
 
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Pokemon Proposal
Route 1
Fletchling
Standered Grass
Level 2-4

Talonflame as we know is quite a interesting pokemon. Its Gale Wings lets it attack certain pokemon with a powerful priority brave bird. Since Talonflame is quite common in OU, I see no problem in giving players access to Fletchling early game. Besides, the fletchling line could help players out in the game.
Seconding, as in addition to the points already made, Talonflame is an excellent pokemon to have for breeding purposes, because of Flame Body and Fly. Because it was suggested we havean early day care, Talonflame would be great to have as early as possible.
 
I'm seconding most of the Pokemon suggestions so far, i.e
Standard Grass:
-Fletchling (Small Bird)
-Azurill (Small Mammal)

Rough Terrain Patch (Tall Grass):
-Starly (Small Bird)
-Eevee (Small Mammal)
-Bunnelby (Small Mammal)

Anyway, Stealth Rocks is a great move but personally I wouldn't put in on the first route where trainers have only 1-3 Pokemon (if there are ANY trainers in Route 1 at all). There's very little switch incentive and players may end up concluding it as a "shit" TM, especially when it's found on the first route AND the fact that no Pokemon currently available to them can learn it (I don't think its a good idea to change the current game mechanics to allow Bunnelby to learn it). I think new players need to get used to the fact that non-damaging moves can be as (or more) lethal than their usual Flamethrower/Air Slash/Earthquake/Fire Blast 4-attacking Charizard sets first before they can be enlightened by SR's true beauty. Honestly, I'd want SR to be obtained after a LOOOONG trek through a dungeon or after an exhausting slog through, say, Team Lucksack's hidden base where you finally find "THE TM" instead of the rather useless Master Ball. Any other form of obtaining Stealth Rocks is just an insult to the almighty SR. Ahem, I'll stop now.

With that, I'd propose Return/Frustration (preferably both) as a general all-purpose TM early on. The guy should of course, give the player advice on how Frustration is better than Return at this point in time. "Oh, I know you LOVE your Pokemon SOO much, but it hasn't gotten used to you, alright? It's probably a little confused and frustrated right now." Also, more importantly, it gives the numerous Normal-type Pokes in Route 1 (Azurill, Starly, Eevee, Bunnelby) a very usable STAB. We don't want our new players to use their starters all the way after all, so this would be a good way to put the wild Pokes at the same level as the starters. It wouldn't be hard to include a Happiness rater in the 2nd or 3rd town as well, so I think Return and Frustration are pretty decent choices early on as practically everything learns it.

Also, I would LOVE a cutscene after the player walks into the Route (after he/she gets a starter, of course) showing a platoon of Team Lucksack grunts scouring through the area for Moody Bidoofs. "Hey, is that the last of them?" "Yes, sir!" "Good, with our team of unstoppable Moody Bidoofs, no one will be able to stand up against us! Muahahahahahaha!!!" Obviously Moody Bidoofs go "extinct" in the wild right after that, hehe.
 
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NPC proposal: Generic n00b man
Route 1
Script: "Hey! Do YOU know how to catch POGEYMANZ!? Here, let me SHOW you! W-Wait! Where are you going!?" *cue main character leaving*
A guy who tries to show you how to catch pokemon, but since we are not n00bs we run away from him and never speak of him again.

Also on a related note... Everybody on this thread has to get the reqs on the suspect ladder and vote no ban. If we don't, then we can't use the boxart for this awesome game! ;(
 
Advertising is a bit silly. Gen 6 OU was defined by Aegislash, and him leaving or not will not change that it was his meta, thus making the art stand well enough.
 
NPC proposal: Generic n00b man
Route 1
Script: "Hey! Do YOU know how to catch POGEYMANZ!? Here, let me SHOW you! W-Wait! Where are you going!?" *cue main character leaving*
A guy who tries to show you how to catch pokemon, but since we are not n00bs we run away from him and never speak of him again.

Also on a related note... Everybody on this thread has to get the reqs on the suspect ladder and vote no ban. If we don't, then we can't use the boxart for this awesome game! ;(
We have 3 screenshots with banned mons and art for Deo-D. We're way beyond that point anyways.
 
With that, I'd propose Return/Frustration (preferably both) as a general all-purpose TM early on. The guy should of course, give the player advice on how Frustration is better than Return at this point in time. "Oh, I know you LOVE your Pokemon SOO much, but it hasn't gotten used to you, alright? It's probably a little confused and frustrated right now." Also, more importantly, it gives the numerous Normal-type Pokes in Route 1 (Azurill, Starly, Eevee, Bunnelby) a very usable STAB. We don't want our new players to use their starters all the way after all, so this would be a good way to put the wild Pokes at the same level as the starters. It wouldn't be hard to include a Happiness rater in the 2nd or 3rd town as well, so I think Return and Frustration are pretty decent choices early on as practically everything learns it.
Considering you getting the TMs early though, many of your Pokemon will most like be newly caught. They'll have a random level of friendliness meaning Return/Frustration won't have as much power as you'd like. Some people may ignore using the moves completely since they can't utilize it well early game and they may forget they even had the move later on. Also for the fresh new players, they might be disillusioned to think that these moves are incredibly weak in general and let them slip by. I think the normal games make the mistake of introducing the moves early as well, and many playthroughs ignore Return completely because people forget.

A small interesting tidbit: a really smart player might just be able to make some use out of the moves (emphasis on the "might" since it's really hard to keep track of friendliness). Since most Pokemon are caught at a base 70 friendship, that makes Frustration at ~74 base power when newly caught, which is decent. I don't want to be off-topic though so I'll stop here.
 
Is it possible to have the player choose, and then the player gets the other one later?
It really doesn't matter since in the games frustration is bar useless (you have to try hard to get the guys to not like ya) so id say return as it will be low at the beginning and get better as it goes.
 
So since we got a nice chunk of pokemon (even if a few are repeating) to make a selection from (and would like to select em soonish), but lets narrow down on whats gonna happen with the TM on Route 1.

So far we've had mentions on Protect, Toxic, Return/Frustration, and possibly Stealth Rock. Atm we haven't actually seen any other suggestions, but if yall have one say it, and if not, which of the ones presented here could be the TM of Route 1?
 
Well, we don't have to stick to the standard TMs, but I suppose for the sake of legal move combinations that might be best.
It needs to be a move which isn't overpowering. I also needs to be teachable to most early pokemon.
Protect doesn't seem very useful early game. Neither does Stealth Rock. Return/Frustration aren't the best because they aren't very powerful yet. That might make them useful, though, because Return will grow more powerful as you progress through the game.
Toxic is interesting as well. If someone wants to make a stall team, having a t-spikes user early game will be important. There aren't too many of those who learn it via level up, however. I'd say toxic is the best choice for early game because it allows you to start building a stall team without actually having all of the hazards available yet, although return is another interesting choice as well.
 

Chou Toshio

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@ Venipede and Shroomish-- we got a basic bug / grass forest coming up soon, so let's hold off until then...

(Blue dot on the bottom of the coastline on route 2)

Also, let's just stick to the standard TM list for XY
 
@ Venipede and Shroomish-- we got a basic bug / grass forest coming up soon, so let's hold off until then...

(Blue dot on the bottom of the coastline on route 2)

Also, let's just stick to the standard TM list for XY
That's right, and SR was only tm gen 4. always forget that
 

a fairy

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False Swipe would be cool, but then you'll have the player think that False Swipe is a legit strategy, and I'd rather not see us set up a 3-line dialougue for the NPC explaining why False Swipe shouldn't be used in legitimate battles.

Return/Frustration seems like a decent choice, as it has a distinctive "early game" feel to it, while also being legitimately competitive, especially mid-late game. Toxic just seems out of place, IMO.
 
Okay I thought a bit about some things and I want to adress them to you. Keep in mind that I do not have a lot of knowledge about the OU meta :P

  • Early-game Cave and Forest.
Every game has a cave system and a forest area at least before the 3rd Gym. Gen 6 and BW 2 are the only exeptions afaik, but I could be wrong since I haven't played X&Y. Anyway, wether it is Viridian forest in RBGY, or Pinwheel forest in Black and White, or the Orebrugh Tunnel in DPPt, every game has these. So I'm wondering where on the map these should go. These places give us an opportunity to introduce Pokemon like Scyther, Venipede, Shroomish, Ferroseed, Drillbur, etc.
I wrote this before Chou talked about the forest a few posts above me

  • Legendary Pokemon
Okay so there are a lot of viable Legendary Pokemon in OU. In fact, there are a whopping 16 (idk I didnt count that precise since I was tired) Legendary Pokemon in OU viability list. That's a lot. Like, seriously, to compare, BW2 had 10, not counting event legendaries. And people complained about the amount of legends there. So my questions are, how are we going to make these pokemon available to the players? Will they be catch-able in certain places like the musketeers, will some be roaming Pokemon like the Genies in BW, etc. Besides that, and this is the main problem, a Legendary Pokemon is only catch-able once. This makes it extremely hard to get the right IV's and Nature for your beloved Keldeo or Landorus.

To solve this, we can give the Legendary Pokemon the ability to breed, but only with Ditto

  • Team LuckSack
Okay so, storyline time. In every game, the ''evil'' team strives to reach their goal by abusing the strengths of a certain Legendary Pokemon. I created my own little story about them:

Imagine this is a cutscene where the leader of team LuckSack is speaking to a crown in public or something
''Zekrom is the Legendary Being of ideals. We, Team LuckSack, seek to allow every Pokemon and Move in the SmogSmog region. To achieve this, we must capture Zekrom and use its powers to cerate our ideal SmogSmog region!''
Ok it kinda sucks but you get the point. They want to abuse the powers of Zekrom to create their own ideal world. They actually manage to capture Zekrom, however right after they did this, you, the hero, arrive at the scene. Naturally, you fight the leader of the team and defeat it. Once you do this, Zekrom turns into his sphere. Team LuckSack flees and you never see them again. You keep the sphere, and you can use it to get Kyurem-B by combining Zekrom's Sphere with Kyurem.

There, Kyurem-B problem solved, albeit it's late in the game :)

Next point

  • First Gym
In which town should the first gym be? Usually, the first gym is located in the third town you visit, with the first being the town where the Hero lives, and the second being generally useless. BW2, again, broke this pattern. I think that it's best to locate the gym in the third town, since there are no Trainers on the first route, thus not giving the player any good introduction to the competitive battling scene and rather throwing it into the deep by immediatly fighting the first Gym Leader in the second town without any previous experience. Besides, the first Gym is at level 20, so yea.

And last but not least, I finished the indoor of the Hero's house.

Credit to Alucus on Deviantart for the indoor tilesets


 
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Here's a list of legendaries:

Deoxys (2 forms)
Landorus (2 forms)
Thudurus (2 forms)
Kyurem (2 forms)
Latios
Terrakion
Latias
Manaphy
Zapdos
Mew
Suicune
Raikou
Victini
Entei
Tornadus (2 forms)
Celebi
Cresselia
Moltres
Jirachi
Heatran

And here are my comments on each:
Deoxys (2 forms) - Special sidestory, or finding it in a place like Mount Moon
Landorus (2 forms) - Find it hidden in a desert
Thundurus (2 forms) - see zapdos
Kyurem (2 forms) - hidden in whatever our ice stage is
Latios - wandering?
Latias - wandering?
Terrakion - no clue
Manaphy - given or found as an egg
Zapdos - Maybe there's a thunderstorm problem and you find this, thundurus, and tornadus?
Mew - no clue
Suicune/Raikou/Entei - trio should be connected. Dunno how
Victini - pixie event?
Tornadus (2 forms) - See zapdos
Celebi - Pixie event
Cresselia - dexoys sidestory/Mount Moon like place?
Moltres - Whatever fire mountain we have
Jirachi - Pixie event?
Heatran - I think it should be used by the evil team in the fire mountain, since it was owned by an evil guy in the anime.


Another solution is merely not to treat some of these (Heatran, pixies?) as legendaries at all.
 
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