Mantine [QC 0/3]

[Nog]

Overview
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+Great bulk
+Good ability
+Checks most common stall breakers
+Good defensive typing
-No reliable recovery
-Shallow move pool

PhysicallyDefensive
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name: PhysicallyDefensive
move 1: Defog
move 2: Rest
move 3: Scald
move 4: Toxic / Sleep Talk
ability: Water Absorb
item: Leftovers
evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SDef
nature: Bold

Moves
========

- Defog allows Mantine to clear all the hazards on the field.
- Seeing as Mantine has no reliable recovery, Rest is the best it can do.
- Scald is the only STAB attack you run on this set and it can cripple physical attackers with a high burn chance.
- Toxic is for guaranteed residual damage to wear down stall breakers or other offensive threats.
- Sleep Talk coupled with Rest allows you to keep using moves even when you're asleep, but generally Toxic is the better option.

Set Details
========

- Water Absorb helps wall popular special threats like Greninja and Keldeo, while limiting physical threats such as Mega Gyarados or Azumarill.
- Leftovers allows for greater sustainability and passive recovery.
- Given Mantine's already superb Special Defense stat, max HP and Defense are chosen to balance out its defenses from both sides of the spectrum.
- Bold Nature increases Mantines Defense while sacrificing some of its Attack.


Usage Tips
========

- Because of Mantine's Stealth Rock weakness it can have a hard time swapping in against certain Pokemon. Mantine is also quite a hard Pokemon to use as you have to actually predict against most threats. Make sure to almost always play safe when using it.
- Only use Defog if you feel they will swap out or if they can do nothing to you.
- Knowing when to Rest up is really key; make sure to always calc to make sure you can take whatever hit they go for and live. If you can't or have a high chance to die, don't risk it. Simply swap out.
- Identify which Pokemon you need to KO or wear down to win and prioritize those mons to get Toxic'd.

Team Options
========

- Skarmory pairs quite well with Mantine as they have the exact same stats just on opposite sides of the spectrum, but having dual Defog on stall means you need to run more Toxic.
- Clerics really help out Mantine because its only form of recovery is Rest.
- Ground types like Hippowdon or Stunfisk are great partners to Mantine as they resist both the things that are super effective to Mantine.

Other Options
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Air Slash - Best secondary STAB Mantine has and allows Mantine to better deal with Keldeo and Venusaur
Ice Beam - Hits dragons and Thundurus for super effective damage and can net some surprise KO's

Checks & Counters
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**Electric Types**: x4 weak to electric so Mantine really cannot swap in much against them. Many of these also cannot swap into Mantine much because of the fact that it could get poisoned or burned on the switch.
**Mega Venusaur**: Although this thing hates residual damage likes burns, it takes literally nothing from Scald and is immune to Toxic. It can Leech Seed stall you with Synthesis as well as bait out a crit with Giga Drain.

 

[Nog]

To be frank because of Mantine's already shallow move pool, there isn't really anything else it can run and have the same type of success. If anyone has suggestions on what, if anything, should go here feel free to post.

 

[Rotosect]

"Bad defensive typing" is misleading since bulky Gyarados is highly valued for its water/flying type.

 

[Aragorn the King]

Overview
I agree with the above. The Rock and Electric weakness are all its typing brings negatively. It resists Fighting, Bug, Steel, and Fire and is immune to Ground and Water, and that is more important, imo. You could say a bad typing regarding Stealth Rock in addition to having a 4x weakness. However, it packs an interesting six resistances and immunities that allow it to do what it does.

Physically Defensive
Use 248 HP EVs instead of 252, for a better SR number. You could also use the spread 196 HP / 252 Def / 60 SpD to get better Special Bulk and a Leftovers number of HP, all for a little defense.

Set Details
Oglemi will kill you for saying "both sides of the spectrum."

Team Options
I know you love it, but I don't think QC will let a Stunfisk mention slide. :) I know there isn't anything identical to Stunfisk, but I'd just say Quagsire, Garchomp, Rhyperior, or Excadrill instead.

Other Options
Well, you need something. Air Slash is an interesting choice over Toxic / Sleep Talk. If Mantine + Keldeo are the last Pokemon on two different teams, and both are around 50%, and Keldeo is Specs locked into, Air Slash is Mantine's only option of defeating it. Air Slash is also able to do something to Venusaur and Amoonguss, who otherwise laugh at everything you try to do. Ice Beam and Mirror Coat are also potentially viable, but also obviously don't belong on a set.

 

[Nog]

Overview
I agree with the above. The Rock and Electric weakness are all its typing brings negatively. It resists Fighting, Bug, Steel, and Fire and is immune to Ground and Water, and that is more important, imo. You could say a bad typing regarding Stealth Rock in addition to having a 4x weakness. However, it packs an interesting six resistances and immunities that allow it to do what it does.

ye I changed it to good.

Physically Defensive
Use 248 HP EVs instead of 252, for a better SR number. You could also use the spread 196 HP / 252 Def / 60 SpD to get better Special Bulk and a Leftovers number of HP, all for a little defense.

252 is for a leftovers number seeing as it has passive recovery rather than most things weak to rocks. The other EV spread could be mentioned in OO probs, but I'll test it a bit first.

Set Details
Oglemi will kill you for saying "both sides of the spectrum."

meh I don't think Oglemi is much of a killer, he's a nice fellow.

Team Options
I know you love it, but I don't think QC will let a Stunfisk mention slide. :) I know there isn't anything identical to Stunfisk, but I'd just say Quagsire, Garchomp, Rhyperior, or Excadrill instead.

uh I talk to jukain and Dice pretty much everyday and I don't think they'd have a problem with it, will add in other ground types too tho. Also I am just referring to mons commonly found on stall because that's all Mantine fits on.

Other Options
Well, you need something. Air Slash is an interesting choice over Toxic / Sleep Talk. If Mantine + Keldeo are the last Pokemon on two different teams, and both are around 50%, and Keldeo is Specs locked into, Air Slash is Mantine's only option of defeating it. Air Slash is also able to do something to Venusaur and Amoonguss, who otherwise laugh at everything you try to do. Ice Beam and Mirror Coat are also potentially viable, but also obviously don't belong on a set.

Air Slash and Ice Beam are quite weird choices, but I can attest to Magic Coat being useful. Will test out the others.

 

[Agent Gibbs]

Don't mention the Leftovers number spread. A spread of 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 SpD is a little bulkier on both sides than a 196 HP / 252 Def / 60 SpD spread. Stopping your HP investment short for a Leftovers number only hurts your overall bulk in most cases while offering no real benefit in return, which is why I've never been a big fan of the concept of Leftovers numbers.

 

[Aragorn the King]

The HP stat has to be divisible by 16 for it to be a lefties number. Mantine's max HP is 334, which doesn't divide evenly into 16, so it'd be the same as if it were odd, regarding lefties. Just use 248 HP; Agent Gibbs is right.

Also, QC generally makes everyone remove mentions of Pokemon without analyses. But if they said Stunfisk was fine, idrc.

Other than those, gj :)

 

[g]

Lol i guess Ice Beam can go to OO as it OHKOs Landorus after rocks unlike Scald and can hit Thundurus harder on the switch.
Air Slash can go to OO too c:

 

[dice]

hey Nog what'sup with this?

 

[Nog]

it's ready to be QC'd just forgot to change the title.

 

[RufflesPro]

Is a Chesto Resto (Instead of RestTalk, especially because you can get Defog vs. like bisharp) set completely not viable?

Also I'm confused, what does Mantine even beat in OU? For all I know I'd rather run a SpD Sap Sipper Scald Azumarill than this :/
All I can think of is Lando-I, Gliscor, and Hippo. Also without Air Slash you can't even hit Keldeo and thus lost in a 1v1 situation, which IMO is pretty important. Air Slash also let it beat Breloom and MMedicham and probably even Conk.

Finally is Defog even viable on this? I'd rather use both Scald and Air Slash checking a much larger amount of pokemons, especially when Scizor, lati twins, skarm, mandibuzz, zapdos, Togekiss, Empoleon, Crobat, Mew, Gligar, and even Togetic outclass it as a Defogger.

 

[Agent Gibbs]

Defog is literally the only reason to even look in Mantine's direction. Otherwise, you'd be far better off using defensive Gyarados with its almost as good special bulk, far greater physical bulk (not to mention Intimidate), much greater offensive presence, and extra utilities like phazing and Thunder Wave. It's Defog or bust, to be honest.

 

[thedeafelectrician]

I feel like ferrothorn could get a special mention in counters with scald doing 9-10% to the physically defensive set and ferro is basically getting free seeds on something and can restack hazards (rocks) after it forces it out. Power Whip also does 36-43% (something like that) so it can force it to rest too.

 

[aim]

I'd also mention that that it is a decent switch in to Landorus-I, Nog. Not being 2HKO'd by Psychic or Sludge Wave is pretty nifty.

 

[Jukain]

would prefer a more spdef spread so you can handle the likes of landoi better. you only have 0.4% chance to be 2hkoed by psychic after rocks with your lefties, not to mention land is prolly the rocker so you won't even have to worry about rocks damage. however, a problem happens when facing knock land and you maybe have to deal with rocks. then you have this:

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Psychic vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mantine: 114-135 (34.2 - 40.5%) -- 44.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

which is much less reliable. the spread i like is 248 hp / 164 def / 96 spdef calm. 96 spdef is kinda arbitrary, it's just a spdef jump point. anyways, now look at this calc:

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Psychic vs. 248 HP / 96+ SpD Mantine: 96-114 (28.8 - 34.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

what's the difference in physical bulk now?

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 164 Def Mantine: 113-133 (33.9 - 39.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mantine: 93-110 (27.9 - 33%) -- 94.1% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

alright, so phys def handles keldeo better, but you can't even do anything to keldeo outside of toxic...while it can just sit there and 2hko after the first one. so i wouldn't even use mantine as your sole/main keldeo check. i think the great reliability vs lando is better, that's all.

 

[Nog]

those are the EVs i use, just forgot to update the analysis.

 

[Jukain]

alright Nog :

fix spread

put grass-types in general in c&c, as well as sub megados, lum dnite, kyub, off starmie, lati@s, rock attackers (terrakion, landt, megacross, etc), mega gard, and freeze-dry mamo...

approved 1/3

 

[Jukain]

nog is dropping this and we decided that mantine doesn't really deserve a full analysis, its niche is really too small to be worth having an analysis for when it really only works on hyper-specific stall teams. locking.