Gen 6 Diancie, Hoopa, and Volcanion [Read Post #63]

[Disaster Area]

If it becomes prominent enough, then ray will just run earthquake and then it'll see less use (will suck for heatran tho)
Also volcanion's dual stabs are buttfucked by palkia's 2 4x resist.... it also happens palkia is the most used pokemon in XY in UPL.

 

[Thugly Duckling]

If it becomes prominent enough, then ray will just run earthquake and then it'll see less use (will suck for heatran tho)

Diancie has enormous defenses, and Rayquaza runs Earthquake anyway on it's Mixed sets; and I don't think Rayquaza could do much to Diancie because it's most popular set this Gen is the Swords Dance one. Diancie is going to get a Mega form too, but looks offensively inclined which actually seems more useful than it's normal defensive form.

 

[Disaster Area]

Diancie's defenses are comaparable to Deo-D, aka pretty average, good enough for OU; EQ rayquaza is not a thing in XY cos dragon (physical/special) + espeed + v-create + set up move is all it needs in this metagame. If Diancie does see ubers use, rayquaza may end up running EQ sometimes. Not really sure, but it seems the only one likely to have any impact.

 

[SuperWumbology]

Mega Diancie so far seems pretty interesting (well, to me at least). The following post will probs just be theorymonning, but w/e.

So, if I were to distribute Mega Diancie's 100 BST increase to its original form's largest stats equally, it will look something like this: 50/120/180/120/180/50

This is a lot cooler than you think. It lets Diancie check Zekrom, Ho-Oh, Yveltal, Ray, MegaBlaze, and Darkrai. That's pretty darn good to say the least (tho I might be overstating it), even with the fact that it might not get any reliable recovery. Here are some calcs with the above BST (WALL OF CALCS INCOMING):

252+ Atk Teravolt Zekrom Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Diancie: 121-144 (39.8 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Teravolt Zekrom Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Diancie: 154-183 (50.6 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Ho-Oh Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Diancie: 144-170 (47.3 - 55.9%) -- 79.3% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Ho-Oh Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Diancie: 112-134 (36.8 - 44%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Ho-Oh Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Diancie: 187-221 (61.5 - 72.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Ho-Oh Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Diancie: 146-174 (48 - 57.2%) -- 90.6% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Mega Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Diancie: 75-89 (24.6 - 29.2%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO
+6 252+ Atk Mega Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Diancie: 235-277 (77.3 - 91.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mega Blaziken Low Kick (20 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Diancie: 21-25 (6.9 - 8.2%) -- possibly the worst move ever

252 SpA Life Orb Darkrai Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Diancie: 82-97 (26.9 - 31.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Darkrai Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Diancie: 104-123 (34.2 - 40.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
(Ik Focus Blast is rly bad on Darkrai this gen but its the strongest move it can use against Diancie)

So, most of the above threats need boosts or LO (except Zekrom) to break past Diancie, and the above physical threats can just be hit by Diamond Storm and have Diancie's Defense go up even higher. With this knowledge, we can make 2 sets with Diancie's known movepool and these stats:

Physically Defensive (or Specially Defensive)
########
name: fucking guess
move 1: Diamond Storm
move 2: Stealth Rock
move 3: Moonblast
move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Trick Room
ability: ???
item: ???
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD or 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
nature: Relaxed (or Sassy)

I am actually quite interested in what Mega Diancie will bring to the table with its typing and movepool (Trick Room support sounds evil), especially since its ability hasn't been confirmed yet but Trollfreak will strike again and give it Clear Body again.

inb4 Steel Wing Ygod.

 

[Haruno]

Mega diancie will have to be fucking amazing to make it warrant using the mega slot over mewtwo/blaze/gengar. Fuck it struggles for a team slot against goddamn venausaur as a bulky pivot.

 

[swaginator II]

Maybe hoopa will have a nice niche with scarf, with great special attack it can probably be seeing some use with scarf, but at best it will most likely be around BL2.

Mega diancie will have to be fucking amazing to make it warrant using the mega slot over mewtwo/blaze/gengar. Fuck it struggles for a team slot against goddamn venausaur as a bulky pivot.

Yes but other than alakazam, all megas have their stats boosted by 100. Diancie already has 600 BST and with her mega form she may get 700 BST, which isn't that bad, too bad her typing still screws her over, and maybe her ability might be something new(why the hell would they keep the ability secret if it was a pre-existing ability).

 

[Fireburn]

Diancie is now legal for use on Pokemon Showdown! Post your experiences in Ubers with it here.

 

[Haunted Diamond]

All of them won't be worth it in Ubers. And hey what's wrong with gastrodon? :(

 

[Disaster Area]

I've made a video discussing its release and potential in the ubers metagame.

This video is 2 diancie-based teams battling eachother.

 

[Level 56]

Diancie is a decent pokemon, I made a team with it (kinda like balance+stall) and it works great, checks threats like ho-oh, yveltal etc easily with 252 hp, 130 def and 126 sp atk (quiet nature). There is one big problem I noticed while using it. Diancie does nothing to steel types with it's stab moves (diamond storm+moonblast), in this case I made a special set for diancie which consists of

-diamond storm
-moonblast
-rest
-Hidden power fire

Hidden power fire hits steel type mons hard when they come in, like mega scizor (which forces diancie to switch)

180 SpA Diancie Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Scizor: 204-244 (59.3 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This set is working perfectly for me atm, toxic can also be used instead of hidden power fire if u have something like ho-oh for steel types (which I have in the team, but testing hp fire diancie)

The core I'm using atm

Diancie + ho-oh + grass-ceus + mega scizor

Nearly every threat fails to break it

Overall, diancie is not that bad and does its job pretty well along with some help from it's partners.

 

[Disaster Area]

There is a replay, the one in my post. Though my team is pretty meh, I'm sure you could garner something about his core from it.

And it does check ray really prety nicely.

 

[Level 56]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-141121992 Vs yohoe

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-140964329 Vs fireburn

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-141483685 Vs Dm Pain

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-141485453 Vs Wreckdra

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-141489164 Vs Piexplode

 

[Mega-Swampert]

I'd rather not have that vs alphabeta replay up there, you barely used diancie, and it just shows how bad I am.

 

[haxiom]

Well mega diancie was confirmed to get magic bounce I think. Thoughts?

 

[Hack]

Well mega diancie was confirmed to get magic bounce I think. Thoughts?

ran some pure theorymon calcs with Isa based on the fact that nintendos statement about it getting better offensive stats and worse defenses. that as well as the fact that HP remains unchanged and the BST boost to megas is always 100 made us assume the distribution of 50/150/100/150/100/150. Its just an educated guess that could be quite close to the truth but it was fun nevertheless. A big speed increase can actually make it a decent Arceus-Normal/Yveltal/Ho-oh check+SR user for offensive teams. Couple that with a fast explosion, things doesn't look too bad. some calcs:

+2 252+ Atk Silk Scarf Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Diancie: 162-192 (62 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Diancie Explosion vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 259-305 (58.3 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Diancie Explosion vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 259-305 (67.8 - 79.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Yveltal: 380-450 (96.6 - 114.5%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 141-166 (36.9 - 43.4%) -- 99.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

ofc a lot of this necessiates that Diance has to mega evolve safely- if it isn't in mega forme when against Arceus-Normal it will lose. It seemed a bit hard to fit a set that use both SR+boom and protect to mega safely because your coverage becomes really strapped. This is pure theorymonning so take from it what you will but it could potentially have some niche. Also, it can be quite handy with magic bounce for a physical attacker, but no recovery means that stall teams can still beat it quite well.

 

[Bossness]

Seems like shit. I'd rather use gengar or mewtwo as my mega evo. Effs.

But Magic Bounce is gold!

 

[Haunted Diamond]

It gets magic bounce?

 

[Disaster Area]

Its mega will

 

[Isa]

also checks MegaBlaze with the stats me and Hack looked at; Low Kick has 20 BP vs. regular Dancer and I can't see mega Dancer becoming Snorlax levels of fat

252+ Atk Mega Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Mega Dancer: 126-148 (48.2 - 56.7%) -- 90.6% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Mega Dancer Diamond Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Blaziken: 220-259 (73 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Mega Blazer takes 87 damage from recoil trying to kill Mega Dancer. 220+87=307, which is bigger than the 301 HP Mega Blaziken has. Diamond Storm has a 50% chance to raise Defense though, and Flare Blitz isn't guaranteed to 2HKO (even if it's likely), so around 50% of the time Mega Dancer wins, 50% it ties.

It gets even better if you don't use your mega evolution, since Diamond Storm is still a 2HKO but Flare Blitz suddenly deals less much less:
252+ Atk Mega Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Diancie: 89-105 (34 - 40.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Blaziken: 165-195 (54.8 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So if you're in vs. Mega Blazer and have yet to evolve, it's more sound to wait one turn and then go for the mega (as long as Blazer stays in of course). Double max rolls won't kill Dancer+Mega Dancer.


I also don't know what Tyranitar uses in Ubers but I think Mega Dancer can be helpful there as well, someone who knows calc pls

 

[pj]

I thought that Hoopa is a Physical Pokemon after seeing it looked like physical Pokemon

 

[Disaster Area]

+2 Flare Blitz almost OHKOs Diancie, +2 HJK easily does.

Point is, it's fine for not letting blaziken set up when it's out, but it's shaky as a check. Landorus-T does that job more reliable; then again at least not being set up bait for blaziken is an advantage over tyranitar. (it doesn't have all that many advantages, as they're pretty similar)

 

[Alert to Sounds]

Justified grants no immunity to Dark-type moves, so Hoopa would just gain a (useless) Attack boost in the off-chance it didn't get obliterated.

Volcanion does seem promising, though risky.

EDIT: Nvm, I'm dumb.

 

[(PFC)nurideen]

Hoopa looks very bad in the metagame. Maybe it is that i linger around 1400 a lot but a lot of Ekiller Arceus have shadow claw,mauling hoopa.
Diance is absolute crap in OU,forget uber. I know they are 2 seperate tiers but it just cant deal with Kyogre, Arceus Steel, groudon and a number of other very common pokemon. I doubt either Hoopa or Diancie will have much of a use in uber

Volcanion however, I see becoming a very successful pokemon in Ubers that can fit a very useful niche in checking choiced kyogre, being able to almost hit the entire tier for neutral damage, having a hydro pump with the secondary effect of scald, checking certain things with it's respectable bulk.

It's versatility is good as well. I see it as a better heatran in some aspects. A choice scarf allow it to outspeed kyogre, groudon and numerous other pokemon. It might be able to function as a successful wallbreaker with choice specs, or it could even run a mixed quiet/brave set. I don't see the bright side to this but it must have it's pluses. It can even invest in defence, although the lack of reliable recovery hurts it.

Honestly out of the three the only viable one in ubers will be volcanion

 

[Minority]

Volcanion however, I see becoming a very successful pokemon in Ubers that can fit a very useful niche in checking choiced kyogre, Honestly out of the three the only viable one in ubers will be volcanion

252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Thunder vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Volcanion: 406-478 (118.3 - 139.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Thunder vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Volcanion: 296-350 (86.2 - 102%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Volcanion on its own would be poor to check Kyogre since team preview exists and Kyogre can just predict with Thunder. You would have to use Volcanion with a ground type to check Kyogre in a similar way to how many teams check Zekrom with Ground + Fairy, but you still have the issue of predicting wrong. I guess you could sack Volcanion to Thunder against choice Ogre and then come in with Dugtrio, boost to +6 while Ogre is locked in Thunder and can't switch, then sweep the whole team until people start complaining about Dugtrio + Volcanion being uncompetitive.

 

[(PFC)nurideen]

252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Thunder vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Volcanion: 406-478 (118.3 - 139.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Thunder vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Volcanion: 296-350 (86.2 - 102%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Volcanion on its own would be poor to check Kyogre since team preview exists and Kyogre can just predict with Thunder. You would have to use Volcanion with a ground type to check Kyogre in a similar way to how many teams check Zekrom with Ground + Fairy, but you still have the issue of predicting wrong. I guess you could sack Volcanion to Thunder against choice Ogre and then come in with Dugtrio, boost to +6 while Ogre is locked in Thunder and can't switch, then sweep the whole team until people start complaining about Dugtrio + Volcanion being uncompetitive.

Most Kyogre spam water spout. I said it CHECKS CHOICED kyogre, meaning by that it needs to be choiced into water spout/hydro pump.
In any case the only viable of the three will be volcanion, whom has multiple niches